Fiona Stevenson: How Law Firms Can Win Clients in the First 2% of the Experience

Speaker A: Hey, everybody. Before we get to the show, just want to remind you that the Be that Lawyer community is up and running and rock and rolling. We have a lot of amazing business, developer and rainmaking attorneys in there. We've got incredible content, courses, live events, and all kinds of ways to help you to be that lawyer. Check it out today@, uh, bethatlawyer.com community and other than that, please enjoy the show.

Speaker B: You're listening to Be that Lawyer. Uh, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Pritzen will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here's your host, Steve Bretzen.

Speaker A: Hey, everybody. Steve Bretzen. And welcome to the Be that Lawyer podcast. This is the show all about business development, marketing, branding, time management. Everything you didn't learn in law school is taught and shown and demonstrated here through the incredible experts and rainmakers that I bring on to share their wisdom with you twice a week, every week, going on maybe six years. You know, not bad. Not a bad run.

Speaker C: Oh, yeah, that's really good.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. The other show I have is Future Rainmakers. It's more me and some of my clients coming on to talk shop. And that one, I think we're only 20 episodes in or maybe like five, uh, or six months in. So definitely a newer show, but a very different approach to a podcast and what you guys can learn. So if you're a fan of this show, definitely check out Future Rainmakers and see what that's all about. Fiona, I'm so happy that you're here. Lex Reception is, uh, one of our, one of our amazing sponsors. And I'm just so thrilled that I'm here to pull the nuggets of wisdom out of your brain and, uh, add more value to my audience here. And I was really impressed with your quote of the show. And let's jump in and get to it. How do you feel about that?

Speaker C: Yeah, sure. Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker A: Absolutely your game for it. All right, here we go. This one is. No one who ever changed the game did so by being reasonable. Uh, Will, was it? Gurion Guidara.

Speaker C: Will Godara.

Speaker A: Will Godara. Yeah, I totally destroyed that name. Okay, that happens. That happens with me. I told you before we started taping that I just did a podcast on a one hour webinar and now my brain is fried. So, uh, there you have it. But, um, tell us about that quote and welcome again to the show.

Speaker C: No, thank you. So this is A quote from one of my favorite, uh, business books. It's not even a business book. It's more a book about, um, service in general and providing a great customer experience. The book's called Unreasonable Hospitality. I don't know if you've read it.

Speaker A: Yeah, big time. That's a big book. Big book.

Speaker C: Yeah. I also based on the, uh, bear had an episode on it. If you're a fan of that show as well, which into life too. But I think that it really just. I just loved how creative Will was when it comes to thinking about the restaurant trade and flipping it on its head. You know, his aim was to achieve a Michelin star, but for him it wasn't about the service that he provides or the menu. He felt like he was kind of top of the game. It was really actually obsessing over the 2%. You know, he felt any restaurant could hit nine tape. 98%. What could he do that makes a difference when it comes to that 2%? And what could he really obsess over and be unreasonable about in terms of some of his obsessions? And I think that that's really what kind of made 11 Madison really stand out because he used that 2% to really deliver wow. Or magic, um, as he calls it. And a really memorable, um, experience.

Speaker A: Yeah. Another thing I love from that show, by the way, if you're not. If you've never seen the show, the Bear, really, really good. Super hard to watch sometimes because it's so dramatic. But, uh, what are your non negotiables? I love that, like, I've got non negotiables and I will not do that thing if it's a non negotiable, like. Right. So everybody should have a list in there. By the way, also, just in a, Just a little tidbit, in Chicago they have a, um, a bear, uh, food tour. So if you want to go to, like, where it was filmed and learn about the history of the bear and the restaurants and see the scenes that they did and all of that. And even those restaurants, it's kind of. If you're coming to Chicago and you're a hair fan, check that out. Yeah. Pretty cool. Pretty cool.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Well, very good, everybody. Uh, Fiona Stevenson is the, uh, associate marketing director at Lex Reception, as I mentioned, one of our amazing sponsors. And we'd love to hear a little bit about your journey leading up to this current role.

Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I have been in marketing for about 20 years. I thought I was going to be an art school student, but marketing was my calling. It mixes creativity with my scientific reign. Um, yeah, I have, I really love being within the profession. I think we're always kind of on the cusp of new things all the time. I've seen marketing go from print into digital and now we're into like the AI era. And yeah, I've been at Lex Reception for about four and a half years now. Working with attorneys is such a pleasure to speak to different firms every day and really understand that actually some of the marketing challenges that I face are very similar to challenges that firms face as well.

Speaker A: Yeah, really fantastic. And I know that law firms, lawyers, people coming out of law school that didn't learn business development, marketing, any of this stuff, they're now being asked, hey, you now run a firm or you now are starting a firm, or you're, you're getting elevated to managing partner. And what do they know about branding? What do they know about marketing? I mean, that's really. Where should lawyers, whether they're solos or they're just building their own brand within a firm or they're running a firm. Where does like marketing and branding start? Like, what should, what, where should like the very first step be?

Speaker C: I mean, I think that when it comes to like marketing and branding, like even them themselves are different disciplines, right? And I think we think that brand is going to be a logo on a paper. Hey, it looks good, it's going to stand out. It's really more than that, you know, brand is what people are saying about you when you're not in the room and you might even spoken to that person and they've got a perception about what your brand is. So I think that the, the first place that really, um, um, that perception starts off with, it isn't even that kind of first outreach. It's, it's your digital footprint. It's um, what people are saying about you online and how you show up, um, online. So when it comes to searching at the moment as well, the landscape is really changing. You know, everyone would go to Google. Majority, um, of people are going to Google now. But there's also different social media platforms. There's large language models, LL and MS, such as, you know, Claude Gemini and Perplexity ChatGPT, that sort of thing. And that, to be honest, is really quite a new era when it comes to how do I even show up, um, in these places. So I think that, you know, I know firms have got a lot to juggle every day and unfortunately, you know, the channel mix that's available for clients searching for a firm, it's just it's expanding even more. So really thinking about how you show up in that search, first of all, is your first impression.

Speaker A: Well, I mean, let's, even if you don't mind, let's take a step back. Even before that. I, I'm thinking about lawyers and law firms that maybe haven't fully identified their targets or they haven't fully identified like what's their why or what's. What are they in this for and how are they leveraging that to, you know, affect the name of their company or the way that they're presenting themselves, the, the imagery on their LinkedIn or their website? Take us back a little further to that.

Speaker C: I think. Yeah, that's like really important. That is really almost your kind of stake in the ground in terms of who you are, what you're doing and what makes you different when it comes to that, that mission, I guess, that you have as an attorney. You know, like you said, there's a reason why, um, attorneys are going training and then opening up their own business. Why did you choose to do that? I think a lot of that reason is down to helping people and really making a change. But how do you articulate that and having that as your, I guess, like North Star when it comes to everything that you do. So not just about that logo or your website, how you actually, um, engage with your clients, how you and um, show up at networking events. Um, for example, uh, really just having that as your blueprint and having that consistently. You're not switching that every six months or every year. I think that that's the nice thing about being a solo or a small firm attorney. Like that is your personality. It really should shine through. And I think that should really be part of what you're presenting. You know, it's not an act, um, it's truly kind of what you believe in. And clients will see that and feel that as well.

Speaker A: Yeah. Sort of my mantra, and I'd like to think people feel this way, is that, um, I'm trying to get results for me through others. Like if I can help another enough other people get what they want out of their lives and their careers and what they're trying to accompl accomplish. It comes back to me. Right.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: So I think my clients can pick up on this, that I shouldn't be more motivated to grow their book of business than they are. But I'm like a close second. Right. They can tell that I'm not just sitting back hoping that things happen, that I'm very proactive in making sure. That this partnership works out. And so I think, you know, lawyers need to really think about why they do what they do, who they work with, who they like to work with, and really come up with a platform. One of my, um, clients is very, um, forward thinking with AI and the way that she's pursuing the business and she's changing her name of her firm and I looked at the name and I thought it was pretty good. But I'm thinking, like, I'm thinking something that is more relevant to her and her mission to. You keep saying the word mission, which I love. That might. I actually wrote down. I'm not going to share it online because I don't want to steal it before I get it to it. But, um, like I'm going to give her a couple of alternatives that I think might be even better than what she has because it maybe represents what I'm observing as the outside player in this game with. No, with, you know, nothing other than her best interests at heart, that there might be something that's more in line with what her mission and her why is.

Speaker C: So a couple of things, um, that come to mind. So when you're thinking about, you know, maybe what your mission is, one of the exercises that we've thought about is if you were to kind of go to some sort of rally, what would your petition sign be? What do you stand for as a firm and how do you articulate that on your board? So. So that's quite a cool little kind of exercise.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And the other thing to think about, you know, you mentioned about the clients that you want to work with. Also think about what you don't want to be, how you don't want to be perceived, who you don't like, who's not. Every client's a great fit. Who do you not want to work with and why? And really kind of honing into that space that you want to be associated with as well.

Speaker A: M. And maybe even consider either asking clients or surveying clients to find out not only, you know, how they feel about you, but also what do they feel is really, you know, unique about you. What's unique about your firm? What do you do better than everybody else? And if the answers are not, then you suck, well, then you have problems. But, you know, if the answer is, you know, I've never had a law firm or a lawyer that's more responsive and that's genuinely cares about, you know, making sure that we, you know, know we're not panicking.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Like, we know we've got you in Our corner. Well, that could change a lot of the marketing and the branding that you're doing. Cause you thought it was all about, you know, oh, uh, we have such a great culture. Well, that might be important, but not as important as it might be to, you know, your clients who are telling you something else.

Speaker C: Oh, yeah, definitely, 100%. I think the. Definitely the best thing is to speak to the people that you are working with, I think clients. But also if you have team members as well, speaking to them too. Because that culture comes from within. Right.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: You know, however you, um, work internally is kind of then how you're presented externally as well. M. So talking to team members and clients and maybe other, um, know, attorneys that you work with as well. All of them have got different perceptions, um, in terms of who you are. And I think that, you know, having that rounded kind of 360 view really does help and, um, my. Uncover things that you didn't know about yourself as well.

Speaker A: Yeah. So the brand is, you know, not just coming up with that idea and it's everything that surrounds it. And then we're in a position where, all right, now we've got to, like, get out and market it. We have to put it out there into the world. What are the different ways that people support a strong brand that they know is like, be that lawyer is a great brand. Right. I love it. People love it. I could do something say, like, oh, everybody tells me, uh, whatever. But, um, everybody's telling me the tears in their eyes. They came to me and they said, sir. No, I'm just kidding. But, um, it's. It. The fact is, is that when I saw it originally, when it was presented to me, I fell in love with it right away. And I said, you just nailed it. To this guy who's a brilliant marketing guy, shout out to Greg Miller. And. But ultimately that's just the beginning. Like, what do you then do with the brand? Like, how do you take a great brand and a great idea and everything, and then how do you put it out there and stay consistent with it? What's your take on that?

Speaker C: Yeah, I was going to say consistency was going to be my main thing. So what your brand looks like is going to be underpinned by probably different values that you have, like what we spoke about, who you are, who you're not. And that then has to translate into everything. I'm not just talking about your website, I'm talking about the text that you use, how you talk to someone in person, on email, on phone, on live chat. On your website, everything should be all entwined back into who you want to be and how you want to be perceived through that brand. So probably sounds quite daunting. It is. It's not an easy thing to do. You know that refresh for your client. I feel you're paying that as a big change and to make. And also it's not just about a visual change. It could be behaviors that are changing as well, doing things differently. But yeah, I guess really just thinking about probably the kind of touch points are going to make the biggest difference. Starting with there and then cascading that out.

Speaker A: Yeah. Hey everybody. Your next big client might call at 8pm on a Saturday night. The question is who's picking up? With Lex reception, a real person answers every call 24 hours a day, seven days a week. So you never miss a lead no matter when they reach out. No AI agents, no voicemail, just professional legal literate receptionists representing your firm the right way around the clock. And right now, Be that Lawyer listeners get 250 off their first month. Visit www.LexReception.com partners BethatLawyer to claim your offer. That's www.LexReception.com Partners Be that Lawyer. Hey everybody. Steve Fretson here. And@lawyer.com they don't just market law firms, they help them grow. From connecting millions of consumers to trusted lawyers to smarter intake and industry leading events, they're building stronger connections across legal visibility, intake of events, growth. That's lawyer.com check them out today with proven SEO and digital marketing strategies that drive actual clients to your firm. Rankings IE prides itself on proof, not promises mentality. The best firms hire Rankings IO when they want rankings, traffic and cases other law firm marketing agencies can't deliver. Get more rankings, get cases and schedule a free consultation at Rankings IO today. So we put out this great brand, we're doing our marketing, we're being consistent. Everything you just said and then the business is coming through the door and then how, how much shot thought should like firms and individual lawyers like put into what happens the moment someone makes that contact.

Speaker C: A lot, a lot. Probably an eye watering amount to kind of attract that, that person to reach out for you. So to see that follow the last hurdle is really heartbreaking. I think that to be honest, that's often kind of what I see and I think attorneys are really being a lot more cognizant of that now. Right. I see a lot of attorneys who um, reach out to us and say hey, we've got a marketing campaign running and they know, like I'm going to have people kind of contact us. So I want to make sure that, you know, that gap between what marketing has generated and all the way through to having uh, a retainer signed, like actually that, that's a big space in between. So yeah, super important and I think quite critical because that is your, that's the first opportunity where someone's actually taking everything that they've seen in your marketing and making that decision. Are you living up to the expectations of your marketing? You know, when I complete that web form on, on the site, start a live chat, you know, have a call and speak to someone, is that the same experience I was expecting based on what your marketing's been telling me?

Speaker A: Well, maybe a good, good time to transition just to, you know, not totally self promote, but at least talk a little bit about why answering the phone is important. Like, you know, day or night the phone needs to be answered. And when I make calls to a landscaper, to a uh, remodeler, to an accountant and I'm just getting the voicemail or I'm waiting around now all day to hear back from them, like, that's not the world we live in. The world we live in right now is I'm going to call you, I'm going to leave, I'm going to hear that voicemail go off and I'm out, I'm out. Right at that point I'm moving to number two, I'm moving to number three. I'm not going to leave a message and I'm not going to. So people, I don't know that people are understanding that quite frankly, that how, what, you know, how much business is being thrown away or not taken in because they don't have a system in place.

Speaker C: Yeah, but like you said, we are impatient now. You know, we get instant gratification. I was thinking like if we, if you go onto a website and that website takes more than five seconds to load. Sorry, like I'm going on to the next one. If I'm calling someone and there's no answer or, you know, a lot of attorneys have a full voicemail and there's not even room to kind of leave a message. Uh, like you just look at thousands of dollars to kind of get to that point and then that's. It disappeared and you don't even know you're losing those opportunities as well. So yeah, it's heartbreaking. Sometimes you have, I think, have to learn some tough lessons. Yeah, but yeah, it is such a critical part.

Speaker A: But whether, whether someone's using a service like yours or they're, you know, having a receptionist, hopefully they're not picking up their own phones all day. I mean, obviously that's a concern as well. Maybe you can, you could talk to it. But when whoever's. That's the first impression. And so what are some of the things that you train your team to do and that people could learn from you about that initial call, whether that's intake or just picking up and figuring out where that call should go?

Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, it's, it is a consistent answer, I guess. Like when someone is calling a firm, probably they don't really want to make that phone call. It's not going to be a great day in their life where usually when they're picking up a call to an attorney, they're probably feeling quite intimidated by making that call. They don't know what's going to be next. They're not sure how much this is going to cost them. They don't know what the consequences are. And of this phone call.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Uh, and, you know, I think having warmth, empathy, active listening, these sorts of kind of soft skills are the real basis of a good, A great introduction, even just acknowledging that the caller has reached the right place. You know, stating clearly what your name is, what your firm name is. You don't know how much relief that can place on someone just to know, okay, I'm making, like they probably are, um, making this phone call. Okay, Right. This is the first step. I've done it. I'm talking to someone and then really just thinking about the questions to ask, the order of the questions. You know, sometimes or quite often, clients will just want to get their story out, uh, like all in one place. But to, to provide, you know, that great service is asking the right questions at the right time as well. And sometimes it's really not the best place to be regurgitating that whole conversation. You know, that, that comes for a lot along the line. It's really just, you know, we hear you making sure that they're feeling heard. And yeah, having really, that empathetic ear, I think is just so important. So, yeah, the team that we have, that's really what the emphasis is on.

Speaker A: Yeah, well, I like that. Uh, you gotta be consistent that it's not every time the phone rings, it's a different person or a different hello versus the name of the firm versus whatever it is. There should be some training done. And it should be just like the marketing where we're saying consistency, same message, same this. That needs to translate to that call. And I feel like a lot of lawyers just like a lot of things they do, which again, it's not necessarily their, their fault, it's not something they learned early on is, you know, like, what's proper form, right? Like, what is the best way to answer that call? What is the best way to transition that to a lawyer, to schedule a time for them to meet, to like do that intake or at least open up the intake for the lawyer who's going to then, um, then take the qualified call. And a lot of the lawyers are so busy, they just pick up, they just pick up the phone or somebody just sends them a call and they're like, oh my God, this is a solicitor. Not a solicitor, lawyer. Right? Like a solicitor, somebody trying to sell you some stuff. Or it's somebody that has a problem that's so far out of bounds. Like you're, you know, you just spent a half an hour listening to someone talk at you when you've got all this work to do. So I think it's like we really have to think intelligently about this.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think like what's really important is the questions that you want your firm to have answers to before it gets to that stage. And like, you know, if, say you have a receptionist for example, and whoever's answering those calls, that does build up kind of a bit of muscle memory in terms of, okay, here's the run through of the questions. The same every time. I'm going to be asking for, you know, first name, lasting contact details, maybe a brief summary of the situation. Depending on your practice area, there's going to be some qualifying questions that are within there as well. And having that not written on a post it note, not kind of setting scribbles like on the side, you know, having that in a digital form, ideally pushing that in through to your CRM. So everyone also has that single view of the client as well. So when it comes to the attorney picking up, they're not asking the same questions. The person feels like they were heard on that first call and they can get into the detail of that conversation that's needed.

Speaker A: Maybe also sneak in, maybe not at the first question you ask, but maybe, uh, as you're winding down the call and everything is moving forward, they're getting an appointment set to meet with a lawyer, whatever it might be. You know, how did you hear about us? How did you, you know, how did you come across us? Just get that. Because if it's 10 calls a day and they're all coming from the same place or they're coming from 10 different places. Really important to know from a marketing perspective, you know, where your spend should be or, or how people are finding you. The problem with me is like, people hear the podcast, then they read an article, then they're on LinkedIn. Like, like, um, I'm putting everything everywhere, so it's hard for me to sometimes know where it originated, definitely. But one way or the other, I try to dig down and figure it out. But it's a little more challenging than, Than someone that maybe just has a single, you know, two or three different places.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think that attribution, that's a challenge for any business. I think, um, it's not linear. You know, everyone kind of says like, you know, the sales process starts with consideration and ends with conversion. It doesn't. People move around all the time. They're in and out just because, you know, you might have kind of some call tracking in place just because that source and that call tracking says one thing, maybe might say, you know, they came from an LSA or that sort of thing. Actually, chances are there's a lot of other, I would say like micro touch points along the way that have led them to that call site. Yeah, I agree. That's a really important question to ask where they heard from.

Speaker A: Well, I guess let me just ask you what question haven't I asked you that I should. Regarding marketing, you know, uh, intake. Uh, just making sure that lawyers are truly prepared to take on and have the right approach with. With new, uh, potential clients.

Speaker C: Maybe. One thing we haven't spoken about is a great AI debate. M. In terms of.

Speaker A: You really want to have that right now? Right now, Five minutes left. That we're going to have the. The great. Let's have the great I debate and let's. In five minutes. Right? Good luck. Let's. All right, let's have a short.

Speaker C: I guess I think that the, the question that firm should ask is do I use AI or not in intake? Like that is really the crux of it. And um, really just have a think about what's going to make your best first impression. I think that having a real person answer is the best way to represent your firm. And AI can be efficient elsewhere, but your reputation is built, like I said, across different micro touch points. And that voice at the end of the phone is also one of them.

Speaker A: So I just, I just enjoy the times when I'm on with AT&T, for example, just screaming customer support, customer support. Like all I'm doing is they're just moving me through these rooms, never, never ending rooms that none of it have to do with my call and why I'm calling them to cancel the service or whatever. And it's just so I know AI is, you know, going to be better. And I know as six months in a year pass on, it's going to be get better and better, better. And ultimately, though, my take, and maybe you agree with this, is that I, as it gets more and more improved and better, I'm going to be even longing more for the human connection, for the human touch, and I'm going to be, you know, looking to speak with humans specifically because I'm, um, AI overload. Right. If everything's AI, I'm going to go the other way. And I think it's a lot like, you know, people that listen to podcasts, well, they're. Maybe they're videoed out and they're just like, I can't watch any more freaking videos. I just need to, like, listen to something that calms me down or that sues me when I'm driving or whatever. So. Really cool. So let's wrap up with my favorite question of the show. What's Fiona's big mistake?

Speaker C: Oh, gosh, my big mistake. I think one of my big. My biggest mistakes was when I first moved into my role at Lex. I'm really afraid to admit that I assumed all law lawyers and law firms were just in it for the money. Um, I had this real stereotype.

Speaker A: Wait, they're. Well, wait, what?

Speaker C: I know, I thought that, you know, oh, my gosh, I'm going to be speaking to attorneys. They're so intimidating. They're like, you know, courtroom dramas. I see.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Uh, and I have actually, you know, really found that attorneys, yeah, you know, they're attorneys, but actually they are more than that.

Speaker A: Wait, attorneys are people too, huh? I want to get that T shirt. Attorneys are people, too.

Speaker C: Yeah, I know, but they're like their bosses, entrepreneurs, and really fundamentally, they're in, you know, their rules to help others and make a real difference. And I really think my learning from that was just to kind of never assume.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And to always keep listening as well.

Speaker A: I believe this in my heart, and I'm so fortunate that I was selected to be in this community of lawyers, that they are some of the smartest, nicest, most unbelievable people I'll ever have in my life. I mean, I. Not just my clients, the people I network with, the people I interview, I get to know them as humans. And, uh, and I just, you know, there's always bad apples. It can be accountants, it can be what any industry's got. Bad apples. I don't really deal with them, so I don't really see that ugly side of it. But I just, I couldn't be happier in such an incredible industry. And I think that's that you and I are on the same page with that.

Speaker C: Yeah, definitely.

Speaker A: Well, let's take a moment. Let's thank our sponsors, of course, pimcon coming up in October in, uh, at the Venetian in, uh, Scottsdale. Just a first class experience. If you're in personal injury, you're going to want to be there. Do you guys show up for that? You guys do that now. Oh my God. Wow. What a great. You guys should be there. Uh, no doubt about it. Happy to give an inroad to their marketing team.

Speaker C: Nice.

Speaker A: Of course, I want to also thank lawyer.com, great directory, uh, to get found as a lawyer, to get the business in the door. And then, uh, I'm going to give you. You give. I'm not even going to talk about Lex Reception. You tell everybody. What is Lex Reception anyway? I don't know anything about it. What is it?

Speaker C: So, um, Lex Reception is a legal reception service. We are, um, here to answer calls and schedule, um, appointments on behalf of firms 24 7. And we are, yeah, super passionate about real people answering calls on behalf of firms as well. Yeah. And yeah, find out more@lectureception.com now.

Speaker A: Fantastic. Well, thank you so much. Uh, you know, um, Fiona, uh, I love having you guys as a sponsor and I really was so appreciative when you accepted, uh, this invitation to come on the show and talk a little bit about your marketing experience and intake and how, you know, things should be done, you know, for lawyers and law firms. And really, really fantastic. Best connection for people that want to just, that want to, you know, talk to Lex Reception and come up with, uh, you know, working with you guys. How do they reach you the, the

Speaker C: website but also reach out to me on LinkedIn. I'm more than happy to help. I think, you know, when it comes to, you know, we've been talking a lot about first impressions here. It's hard to see your first impression when you're in the deep of it every day. And often it takes someone else to kind of, you know, give you some tips, things that you might not have noticed. And yeah, I'm super happy to help out, um, any firms, be a fresh pair of eyes on how you maybe show up, um, on search or that sort of thing. I'm in the uk. I can, you know, call your firm early in the morning and see what that intake experience is.

Speaker A: Yeah, let's do some, let's do some mystery mystery shopping and find out that people's, their phones are not being manned or not being handled well. And I mean, it's actually a great idea, I mean, from a standpoint of how people really learn what's going on, you know, under the hood. You know, they have someone, you know, call them up and figure it out and then they're like, they're so embarrassed or, or disappointed that things aren't really happening the way that they had thought they were. It's hard to read the label from inside the bottle, as I keep saying. Really, really great. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate you and doing that. And um, you know, everybody, this shows, uh, you know, every angle covered. Uh, go back and listen to past episodes. Check out Be that Lawyer. The book 101 Top Rainmaker Secrets to Growing Successful Practice. Anything and everything we can do Be that Lawyer community to help you be that lawyer. Confident, organized and a skilled rainmaker. Thank you, Fiona. Thank you everybody. Take care, be safe and well. Talk again real soon.

Speaker B: Thanks for listening to Be that Lawyer. Life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve's website, Fredsen.com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing training trends. For more information and important links about today's episode, check out today's show notes.