From Barista to Head of People Ops: The Skills That Transformed My Career

Speaker A: I don't know how you feel, but when somebody is more human towards you and they give you that personal touch and they remember something that matters, does that make you feel good?

Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah. It's so important. And that's why I'm always trying to remember important things that are happening in my, you know, for my team or even for my manager. You know, like, they're kind of you. You know, we're all a team. We're all going through a lot of things. Whatever's going to happen in your life will affect your day at work. And it's so nice, you know, to know then people asking me how, uh, my kids are and you build up connection and definitely is, so. And.

Speaker A: Hello, and welcome to the Plum Pod, where we talk about all things HR and mental health. I'm your host, Georgia, and founder of Access hr. If you are letting the lack of transferable skills take over your future, this is absolutely the episode for you. Today I'm joined by Rosa Bataja, head of people operations, as she shares her journey and the core transferable skills she has used throughout her entire career. Rosa, Hi.

Speaker B: Hi, Georgia.

Speaker A: Thank you so much for joining me on today's episode.

Speaker B: Thank you for having me.

Speaker A: No, of course. This is my pleasure. And for people who don't know about Rosa in today's episode, I really want to open their eyes because we are going, going to have a conversation that I by far is in the top three questions that I get asked. And you are going to give us such a great outline of why it's important during this. But firstly, there is a question that I like to ask every single guest. And that question is, was HR part of the plan or did this happen by chance?

Speaker B: Definitely part of the plan.

Speaker A: Oh, tell me more.

Speaker B: Yeah, so when I arrived in London, I started to work, um, in hospitality, so as a barista to start with. And, you know, during my journey then, you know, I will explain a little bit more soon. Um, but basically, yeah, I knew then hospitality, like the customer, the people was what really attracted me so to stay so long in hospitality. And I'm like, okay, that's what I really want to do in my life. But, uh, definitely in a more routine kind of schedule.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: In a different way. And that's why, yeah, uh, was definitely like, look forward, like I was looking for, you know, starting a new career.

Speaker A: So when you were a barista then, and you're in the hospitality sector, walk me through a little bit in terms of, like a career path to what transition happened between being a barista to having your first HR role. What did that look like?

Speaker B: Absolutely. So 2013 was 20. Arrived from a very little town from Sicily to London. So massive jump. Um, not much confidence of myself, I would say. And I. My English was so little that I'm like, okay, whatever comes, I will accept it. Um, so barista was my first trial shift. And yeah, it started from. Basically from there. I probably was a barista for one year. And I had a lovely manager who really become an inspirational person in my life. And he was always, like, believing in me by pushing my boundaries a little bit more and a little bit more, and that's where I was. Okay, well, maybe I've got this. Maybe I can push a little bit further and further. And that's what I did. So I was starting to, you know, clean up the table, so bringing bills to the table. And that's how, you know, maybe within a year, I would say when my English improved a bit and I got my very first promotion as a, uh, waitress, I was so excited. I felt then, you know, I could do potentially anything and I'm okay then. It means that if you work hard, then if you do always a little bit more, you know, push yourself. That means that, yeah, London is a great place, then it will give you back so much. And that's how everything started. Basically, I went for the ladder. So barista, A, uh, waiters, a supervisor and assistant manager in a very, you know, pretty quickly, um, until we went in Australia and there was a, you know, another break, was still an assistant manager. I definitely took, um, underestimation that I was moving in another country. I was, in a sense, starting from scratch. I was like, oh, I did it once, you know, like, I moved in London. I speak a little bit more English than when I did. You know, I have a level of career. Like, I know what I'm doing in. In a restaurant. It was absolutely not true. Like, I think life that learned me and, you know, I learned something else that was definitely is a new culture, is a new place, different way of talking, like, different slang. It took me a little bit to understand what they were asking me. So I was almost starting again from scratch. Um, then came back in London and I was a general manager in a cafe. It was an Australian cafe. They opened a branch in London Bridge, and they were looking for someone who knew, like, the operational, you know, what an Australian cafe is in Australia. So it's great. So I think it was a great opportunity for me. Crucial place to be. I stayed there for another year and I'VE managed a team of nine people which was a roller coaster, was great experience. But that's where I, you know, got to the point where I knew that I wanted to work in HR and I've started my CFP D Level 5.

Speaker A: I love that. I also love that at the very start with you being a barista, you mentioned around your manager and how they then inspired you because they saw the value within you which you then carry throughout your entire career to where ah, you were managing nine people and then welcoming into to the people space, which is the best place to be. Maybe biased with that comment, but I know we all agree. So today I really want to focus on transferable skills and as I said at the start, I do get asked this question quite a lot. And when we were talking with your background and especially being within hospitality and throughout your career progression, I think you're a perfect person for us to talk about the skills that you found when you were in hospitality that have then really helped you to now be the head of people operations at ah, Pension B. Firstly though, could you set the scene for me a little bit around transferable skills? What does that actually mean?

Speaker B: So yes, thank you and thank you for thinking that I'm the best person to describe this. So I will do my absolutely best. But. Well, for me transferable skill is um, we say something in Sicily, I don't know if it's everywhere in Italy, but you said that usually what you're doing is taking a piece of art and you take it with you and then you know at some point you will reuse like in another way, shape or form. And I think that's what transferable skills are like. You're learning something today, then you feel are just linked with what you are doing, but then you look back and you just put the dots together and yeah, I feel like the skills that I've learned as a barista to, you know, prioritize, prioritization and make sure that I knew what I had to do before and it still helping me now. So definitely it's like learning something and keep it there because at some point you can take it back and okay, oh, actually I know how to do this.

Speaker A: Yeah, completely. I love that. And also it's a really good way of explaining that doesn't have to be jobs specific. I think that's where people potentially put a barrier in front of themselves with transferable skills by thinking they have to be job specific and they don't. They can be fundamental and relate to a lot of skills and in Particular with yourself. Within hospitality, what are the key skills that you found have really helped you the most to where you are today?

Speaker B: Definitely, um, I'm thinking about this a lot and I think the very top one is interpersonal skills. Thinking about hospitality is all about people. It's all about, you know, giving the great customer experience than you can. Having a great team is spending more time with your team than with your family at that point, right. You're spending 50 hours a week in a place. Um, I was very lucky. Like my last experience, I worked in a place where I had just regular customer. I knew their name, I knew what was happening in their life. Uh, I knew if they had a bad day because you meet that person three times a day, four times a day, you know how they are, you know how they interact with you. And I feel was so good for me sometimes to be able to change their day that you can offer them a coffee, you can give them a little sweet and you basically really create happiness and I in connection with people. So that was definitely um, something that I'm thinking you can easily transfer elsewhere. Reading the room, reading how people like their emotions and try to. Yeah, if you can make them smile, make them happy. Like sometimes you can need to do just little to change someone's uh, yeah, how it's feeling for that specific moment. Um, and the same thing in hr thinking about it, we interact. I mean this is probably the thing that I love the most. I'm interacting with every departments. I'm here and there a project and you know, talking with people and this is the best thing. That's why I feel I'm learning every day so much because I have the daughter open with everyone and I'm there for everyone. So this has given me a lot of purpose of what I'm doing my everyday. And that's why I think it's so crucial. You need to know how to read the room, you need to know how to negotiate with suppliers. You need to have the kind of, you know, this is me, this is who I am and yeah, and bring it on. Um, you know your true self all the time.

Speaker A: I love that perspective as well. Because also I had a more m junior job when I was around 15 in hospitality. It was in catering. You just said then how you could change somebody's day, you can remember their name and those moments that matter. I learned so much from hospitality. Very similar to yourself. But then we can apply to a real world example in the world of work, even though it's changing with technology, those interpersonal skills, being human, being present, showing appreciation, they leave a lasting impact. It also makes you a better professional. I don't know how you feel, but when somebody is more human towards you and they give you that personal touch and they remember something that matters, does that make you feel good?

Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah. It's so important and that's why I'm always trying to remember important things and happening in my, you know, for my team or even for my manager. You know, like that kind of you, you know, we're all a team, we're all going through a lot of things. Whatever's going to happen in your life will affect your day at work. And it's so nice, you know, to know then people asking me how my kids are and you build up connection and definitely is so, so important. I still have a number of a customer that used to be Monogram customer from Arizona and I would say once a week is messaging me, asking me how I am and how my kids and that's amazing. Yeah, we're still sharing pictures so. Absolutely. And it does change your life knowing when someone is thinking of you. Mhm.

Speaker A: What are the other skills that you would really recommend? Anyone who's listening, who's struggling with potentially their own mindset, thinking that they don't have the skills to move into hr. What are the skills that you would really tell them to lean into?

Speaker B: Um, another very important skill, uh, for me is leadership. And what actually I think, you know, it's a massive topic and so difficult to summarize. Uh, but I think is what have really driven everything that I've been doing, all my hard work, all taking care of people because I don't know if you saw it but there is um, a TED talk from Simon Sinek and he's explaining this circle of safety. So basically you have this political tribes danger all outside of the tribe and what you want is building up trust. People feel like, okay, someone is watching for the danger, I can sleep. It's a good way of, good system of survival. And if you don't create this trust and love inside the tribe, it's very different. People will, you know, will feel that for you and because of feelings you cannot really say to someone, oh, you will trust me, you will love me and it's going to happen. So there is a lot of work that has to be done to build up this trust for people. Um, and it's so nice to see then how much you lead by example and everything will come back to you. I was thinking a lot, uh, how you know Leadership and how much I got back from in my mind being a leader in hospitality. I had run through a very difficult time in my life than my grandma. She was nearly, you know, close to pass away and was a weekend I still have that day, really close to, you know, to me because I remember I was so busy, we were doing bottomless brunch. So imagine between 11 and 3 non stop, 300 guests arriving all at the same time, uh, want to have fun. And I remember that I was, you know, very worried. I was there with my phone trying to understand was, you know, what was happening. And one of my, you know, colleague, best friend, she look at me, is like, you go home, we got this tomorrow you take your flight and you're going back home. I was like, oh no, maybe I can wait, let me go Monday on Tuesday. But then, you know, I took the decision to say, okay, she's probably right, if I don't go, I would regret it. And see, then someone was there for me when I needed and was good because I've managed to say goodbye on the same day. So it was really great. Um, was so good because I'm like, I've been there, I've been helping as much as I can. I'm always here for you and see then someone is there for you when you need it the most. So important. So this is how you, in my opinion, you create a circle of safety where people feel loved. Uh, and you lead this. You would get it back as well. So you are the first person you are, you need to go the first, you need to, you know, it's a little bit how parenting works.

Speaker A: And I also think as well with that, it's the impact that we can have on others when we become a leader. And some people listening may be thinking, well, I've not actually being a leader, uh, to then work into hr, but it's also what are you doing yourselves to build awareness around what a good leader is? What does a good leader stand for? They inspire others. So if you're thinking, okay, potentially I've inspired in this example, that's a skill that we should really be leaning into when we're then applying for an HR position and progressing into more of a people leader within the scape, within the scope. And there's so much that we can do to be better leaders. And it doesn't necessarily mean we've had to have been a leader ourselves.

Speaker B: I think it's just looking, you know, to the people next to you on your right and on your left. It doesn't mean you do not need to be in charge. You do not need to be the most senior person in the room. You just need to make sure that you look after others. I. Yeah, I think I had great examples of leadership in my life. My mom, like, my grandma passed away and she took the lead on, you know, she's there for us, she's there for her siblings. And I'm like, this is what leadership is, right? When you are the place where everyone is going and they want, you know, your opinion, they want to share good and bad news with you and want your advice. So definitely you can do it in, you know, in the workplace also in your life.

Speaker A: Look beyond, I think is a really good message from what you're saying there. We don't have to just stay down that one lane of our own lived experience. How can we lean into the experience of others that would then help us to be in a really effective people leader? You're talking then around your family and growing up in Sicily as well. How has that really helped you to be an effective leader? And communication style with English not being your first language?

Speaker B: Well, communication it is. It has been tough and I think it will be for the rest of my life. I think I would stay in the UK and it went, you know, is a factor then I had to consider and to cope with it. So it's definitely. It was tough. I always have this episode of my very first day, first trial as a barista. And I have this lady, her, ah, last day, she was going to retirement and she was calling me darling. And she used to say, darling. And I'm like, in my mind, like, she probably needs something. She's repeating the same words over and over and over. Actually, she just wanted to be nice. And I was like, oh, my God, she needs something. There was the level of, you know, my English level when I. When I arrived and was very bad. So I've just picked up stuff on the go while, you know, working, uh, in a very busy environment. So definitely communication style has been effective and it will be affected. Yes. I'm like, now probably with my confidence, I would be, you know, I would raise my hands and ask you, like, I don't know what you're saying. I need more explanation. And you know, and I will not assume, I will ask questions instead. Um, but of course, I, you know, I'm not gonna lie. Is hard. And it's still, you know, in a different shape or form. Like it changed about leadership. I don't know. I think, um, probably I would be a Leader everywhere. You know I don't think then the fact that I'm talking another language or I'm thinking in another language actually is affecting my leadership skills. I think is on you like is who you are and it's, I'm very critical myself. I want my 110 every day of what I'm doing and that's probably yeah uh the tricky bit to manage with myself. But I don't think that leadership has actually is a commonality with the Phytanum.

Speaker A: How has your communication style changed from progressing to a head of role compared with when you were more mid weight within the HR profession?

Speaker B: Hard. I've been like being curious, try to understand, get more information. I you know I had a good chance because I started as a uh, entry level A pension B but I was exposed to so much so I was already like working very closely with executive team members, senior team members and I think I had to learn pretty fast and more I was learning more more I was you know connecting the dots and, and get it there. But I think was yeah it just because um we work in a place where you can really be yourself and people will understand the English is not your first language and will try if you say and you're honest it would definitely help you. So the network that you have around you where you work definitely has, has an impact.

Speaker A: I love that. So there's actually a statistic out there that 91% of HR leaders have explained that the profession has changed quite significantly over the last few years. I would just love to know from your perspective looking ahead, what do you think are the skills that anybody looking to get into HR really needs to get right?

Speaker B: Adaptability. Mhm. You really need to be ready for changes and moving fast. I think like anything is things are changing super super fast and yeah it's the same as ah hospitality. Right. And thinking back about transferable skills, you run a place in a very fast environment. Like you have people coming like all together need to take decision on you know on the spot. Uh and the same thing in hr. I think a lot of the time you you know you need to I think learn where you need to move fast and when you need to sleep overnight before taking a decision. And that's where adaptability is coming in place. Right. Sometimes yeah, don't rush it too quickly. Sometimes you need to pause and that that's what adaptability is. It's like sometimes we move fast, sometimes you move slow. Environment changes, lower laws that are changing. The organization where you work is changing and you need to make sure you meet halfway between what employees need and what. You know, I always say that hr, we are the weight scale, right? You are in the middle M. You need to make sure that everything is moving equally right. And it's going like, yeah, I understand the organization perspective, but I do understand how people feel. How can we make sure that they meet halfway through it with a bridge

Speaker A: in between for them? And also you just mentioned then around knowing the boundaries and the balance of it. And I always say, if it's a good idea today, it'll be an even better one tomorrow. We have got to know when to go full steam ahead and then when to also pull it back. Ever so slight. And also to get our leaders on board with that, uh, and our decision makers within the organization. Because sometimes what they deem as urgent may actually just be important. And we can then learn to prioritize, which I personally think the skill of prioritization is a huge transferable skill that we can bring into the sector. Because there are a lot of things that we may be doing in the moment, but due to legislation changes and everything, we may have to reprioritize that. But also if it's a priority for the business or alternative goals that are coming in, we need to reprioritize. When you were talking around adaptability, I did smile to myself because we are often the industry that is the very last to know anything and to be ahead of the curve. So I'm just curious to know from your perspective, how can we learn to be more adaptable?

Speaker B: That's, uh, a good question. I think has to be something that it's as well in yourself like speaking with people like, have take the extra step on. You know, if I think about myself a lot of the time I'm working projects and I'm like, okay, well, I don't have the financial literacy that maybe my colleague has. So let me actually have a, uh, schedule a call with this person and get a little bit more from, you know, from him, from her. That is depending from the people that they know more than me. So I'm always going with that point on, okay, that's just my idea. What is your perspective? And try to, you know, get as much as information than I can from others. So definitely, like speak up. Be like there, like asking questions. Don't be afraid to ask that your team members are there. And sometimes you don't really feel the connection between, oh, what should I ask my finance director? And actually, I think that's what have helped me. I remember like junior Level ended up engine B. I went to the CFO and I've asked him how to freeze a panel in Excel. All right. He probably should have said to me, what are you asking me, right? Go and Google it. I actually did reply. It was like, thank you so much for reaching out. And that's where you feel like people are more approachable and you cannot be there and ask any question you have, even if it's a simple one. Then you could pro. You know, I learned that M. Next time I will Google it. But it was nice to see, like, then you have that connection. So definitely for adaptability, you need to speak with the people and they know more than you and think ahead. Um, is almost like predicting the future, right? It's like, oh, well, if I do this, what's going to happen next and next and get it from there and see how you can, uh, you know, run a project or something. I felt also the pandemic took us the kind of adaptability in a world where everything was changing, but also us. We had to adapt, but we also had to lead and we tell people what to do when we didn't know. Right. I remember going in the tube and was like, empty. I was by myself because people need monitors, table, chairs. Like, we were packing stuff up, and I was there like, okay, the people need that. I need to do it. I need to go. And was, yeah, CMO was going around with the car, you know, delivering stuff. So that's where you feel part so connected and you feel like you need to do this for you people. And, um, yeah, it's a great sense of purpose.

Speaker A: Hearing that made me also think that to be adaptable, I think it's got to be within us. Like, you've got to have that agility and resilience, that growth, mindset naturally to. Then when a situation happened and we've got to pivot or change, you're already like, yeah, I'm on board. Let's do it. Let's go together. And that togetherness, who can I bring along with me? Who has got the skill set that potentially I don't have, that I can lean into, and the awareness and exposure so that we can get there? Covid, as you said, is a perfect example of that. Nobody had a clue what was going on. We got our, uh, moment of fame, and we were expected to lead it. I remember watching the news every day. I actually used to keep a little diary of what was going on so that I could be the fountain of knowledge because my team expected me to be I suddenly became so well known within our organization because I was the update person. I was telling them what's going on. I had to adapt. I'm very grateful that I do have that mindset. I'm always reading newsletters, going to events. I look to America quite a lot because I always feel like they're quite ahead with what we're doing here in the UK and the things like that that each of us can be doing. Podcast listening to this podcast, perfect example of how we can be more adaptable in a world that is forever changing. We don't know what's going to happen next.

Speaker B: Definitely.

Speaker A: It's also where as well, the future is unwritten. It's completely unwritten. But I do think for us in terms of our skills, there are a few key ones for the future that we need to get right. You said adaptability. Are there any others that you would recommend?

Speaker B: Time management. You need to be good. You need to be on time. You need to know then there are deadlines and you can really move. And there are some. Then, yes, you can, uh, pay it all. Is one of it. People has, you know, needs to be paid that no matter what. And, you know, this is almost like an accountability of your job. Like there are stuff that no matter what have to happen and it's so important. You. You're gonna. You are disciplined. You know what you need to do. And yeah, make it everything to adjust and make sure everything is fitting in order for you to do critical things on your job. And then of course, there are some others than, you know, I always have this thing in my mind, like you have a list of priorities, but then, um, you need to pick which one is the most of. All of it. All of them. So, okay, it's like in a restaurant, right? You have hot coffee that you're someone waiting to be. Sit down. Like, you need to bring the coffee first.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Because otherwise they're getting cold. It's just like a second. But you need to decide on the spot. Okay. You can smile at the person and let them wait while you are cutting coffee. You know, so it's just about this, like, have a, um, list of priorities, which one I pick.

Speaker A: And we can adapt that to work.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Especially in hr, there's so much that lands on our desk of we could do this and we could do that and we could introduce this. But what actually is going to create a really great experience for our people and importantly, what is also going to help the business to meet their business goals? Because when the business is active and they're booming. Promotions come in, pay rises come in, even better experiences come in. If we don't have a business, none of us have a job.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: How can we start to know what's a priority for the business?

Speaker B: Learn more about the business. You need to know. I think it's so important you know what other departments are doing. And you always find the connection between product and HR very, you know, uh, inspiring. And that's why, you know, again, you go and talk with people and try to, yeah, have way internally like forum, like appunction B. We do have like quarterly updates from the CEO when you know how the business is going, what are we doing, um, or show and tell. Every Thursday we meet up. We have more than 200, uh, you know, people working on pension B. So we meet up half an hour every week. And it's so powerful. You share the important information in there. You share what you know, what people need to know. And it's a great, you know, we have eras of the week. It's so nice. Then you just, you know, get a little nomination and. Yeah, and people feel loved. So definitely a good way for communicating is making sure, you know, you have a little time, um, somewhere in the diary where, you know, you can connect and issue them, be knows what's coming.

Speaker A: The connection piece is really important because also if we don't know what's going on in the wider organization, we're just then operating in silo, which I know a lot of us are desperately trying to get out of. But it goes back to being adaptable, using our agility and also having influence with the organization. From your perspective, are there any particular skills that you found really helpful to influence senior stakeholders with how you are now as the head of role?

Speaker B: Interpersonal skills? I guess. Yeah, yeah. Uh, I, you know, I will speak with everyone on the same way if you're the CEO of the CTO or uh, and junior entry level person, my colleague, like, doesn't matter. You will see Rosa how it is every day with, you know, maybe had a very bad night of sleep because, you know, the kids wake up so you will see me in a very casual way. And um, yeah, definitely. I think it's so important and you treat everyone in the same way and you are not afraid to speak up if something you feel is wrong, then a decision is about to, you know, to be make definitely speak up because then I think you will regret it even more. Always feel like if I say what I'm really think all the time, then I can be in Peace with myself. Or I can go back and say, oh, I told you that's what I said, you know, which is another. Yeah, funny thing. But I definitely feel that it's so important people hear from you and your perspective all the time. Um, so yeah, definitely I have all these motivational things in my kids room. It's like stand tall and you know, be happy and be brave and be kind. And I think I'm always trying to do this with myself as well. I have. This was funny enough. I got this in my pan, like you've got this, you know, try to have a little motivation for myself. It's okay, do it because it's actually worse if you don't do it. Uh, so be yourself. And yeah, of course, in a kind and nice way. Even if you disagree with something or some, you know, and understanding the other perspective and maybe you can also change your mind. But uh, if you don't have the connection, if you don't feel free to speak with the person and let them see your perspective, nothing will never change.

Speaker A: I also think was really important with what you've just said is it's forever changing and growing. Like as a professional I can definitely say I'm learning new skills, I'm building on my skills and every single day my skills have come on from when I was 20, when I first entered the HR space. I've been there for nearly 10 years. I'm still learning. And that's what I also really want for people who are listening to understand. You may not have those skills at the optimum level. But don't wait. If you are wanting to get into the industry, you will have so many transferable skills throughout your entire life from school to potentially a hospitality job to going to university. You will have skills from your own lived experience. We just really need to lean into them and convert them into an HR lens. So those experiences that we've created for people in different environments, how can we connect that to work? You've given me so many skills. I've literally been writing all of these down as we're talking. But give me potentially, when we haven't said already, one skill for somebody who is wanting to get into hr.

Speaker B: Ah.

Speaker A: That they absolutely can work on as early as today.

Speaker B: I think what I've just said. Right. Leadership is probably my favorite one. Uh, and the one that I think you really need, uh, if you want to, yeah. Break the, you know, the type of, you know, the career that starting something from scratch, definitely I think that's the one that I would Pick all of them. Um, yeah, I think you cannot get, you know, too wrong. Uh, being a leader in general, like is what we were saying before. Like you can be a leader in your life taking care of people, like even how you, you walk around, how you interact with people next to you. So definitely, I think it's a crucial one. I also feel like you need to, yeah, be uh, brave and you know, and I didn't know a lot of things when I joined, like punch me. And I, I never worked in Excel. Like I, she like for me was like, oh, that's going to be fun. And yeah, you go and you learn and you need to be curious, you need to get, you know, you want the best for yourself and you need to be ready to sacrifice a lot your time, of your money or whatever it's going to be. But uh, you need to be ready for, okay, what is the long term vision? What do I want to get? And when I was a gm, like when I got the opportunity, I'm like, well yeah, the salary is not what usually, you know, a general manager can earn. But I'm like, I don't have the knowledge then, you know, I don't have the skills that are required for bgm. So okay, let me take this opportunity and learn from it. And was the best decision. Sometimes you need to sacrifice something. Your time, your energy, you know, something has to give away in order to get back. But you need to just follow your instinct, get look at long term, the longer, short term.

Speaker A: I love that. And sadly, I've only got one more question for you. You were talking then around getting the GM role and being more curious and again going back to adaptability, using your initiative. I want to take it back a little bit more to looking back at your career. When you were a barista, uh, when you came into the uk, you had that first role. What is one piece of advice you would give your younger self?

Speaker B: Interesting one. I would probably say be brave.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: Follow your gut. Is that you know more than everybody else, you know what is right for you. And luckily that's what I did. I decided that everyone was like when I got the job for as a, you know, hr, everyone's like, don't do it. Like, you know, you're so senior, you already started your career, you are, you know, almost at the bottom line was like, no, this is not right for me. So I would probably say to my younger self, continue, like keep going. You need to believe in yourself and you know, build up the confidence and you can, yeah, you can do it.

Speaker A: Rosa, honestly, thank you so much for your time today. Your journey is very inspiring and the future ahead for you is incredibly bright too. So thank you so much for sharing your skills that you found really valuable to help you into your head of and I know it will be very inspirational to others.

Speaker B: Thank you so much. Georgia.