The Truth About Managing the Anxious Generation

Jess Ringer: If you are a leader in an organization, that organization needs to understand that there's going to be all these different generations and to build a level of understanding around what's going on for each of them. Right. So we talk a lot about like, human focused leadership. You can't, you can't meet a human where they are and support them in the right way if you don't understand, understand the context that they've grown up in. So in terms of like, um, you know, part, I think part of the manager's role in supporting that is a level of understanding and, you know, effective feedback and lots of reassurance and all of those sorts of things. But actually it's about advocating as well.

Georgia: Hello and uh, welcome to the Plum Pod where we talk about all things HR and mental health. I'm your host, Georgia and founder of Access hr. On today's episode, I am with Jess Ringer. As we talk about how do we equip our managers to support early career talent, especially in this modern working world. Jess shares her insight to, to how to really set up our managers and our teams for success as early as on day one. Jess.

Jess Ringer: Hi. Hey. Thank you so much for joining me. Thank you very much for having me.

Georgia: No, of course. I really, uh, want to get into something that I know is very topical but also very, very important and is an area that you are the best person to speak to. But before we do, I have a question for you and it's a question that I ask every single guest. It really helps our listeners to understand more about who Jess is and background. And that question is, was HR part of the plan or did this happen by chance?

Jess Ringer: Uh, I, uh, grew up in L and D. Mhm. Uh, and importantly, actually, uh, and, um, Becky, my business partner, and I have this in common. L and D for a company that worked with educating children. Uh, so started out, um, they were a tuition company, maths and English tuition company, um, and worked in operations, then an L and D and decided I wanted to do that climb to the top and I wanted to be a cpo. Um, I then did a little stint as a head of people, um, because I thought that was the direction I wanted to go in. And actually learned quite quickly that I loved about 60, 65% of that generalist role, wasn't a huge fan of employment law and disciplinaries and grievances. So decided to train as a coach and kind of made the move out. And that was when we set up wb. Um, yeah, so actually the stuff that we do now Is all the really lovely sexy bits of HR and none of the clicking of pens and filling out spreadsheets.

Georgia: It's also the more like educational really getting stuck into it. Compared with the generalist you said around education. I don't know if you know, but I was in education for six years as part of my career as well. I was much more generalist rather than being specialist. I thought it was a really good space at the time. Could it be better?

Jess Ringer: Yep, yep.

Georgia: Definitely agree.

Jess Ringer: I just think so much of it plays into the stuff that we're talking about today, right? These, you know, people that are coming into our workplace who, you know, their experience as children is obviously completely formative. Right. So it's about, I think developing an understanding of what people have been through helps us to support them better at work.

Georgia: Yeah, completely. And let's get into it. So we are going to really focus on early careers, but in particular how do we equip managers? How do we actually set up the people internally for success, for the next talent walking through that door? I really want to know from your perspective, when you were in the early stages of your career, did you know your personal set of values before you went into an organization?

Jess Ringer: Absolutely not. I didn't know that, no. And actually I didn't do any values work really until, until I trained as a coach. Um, so one of the things, you know, one of the things that we talk a lot about work is this, like what if, what if people coming into the workplace had all that support that we provide to the people that have already made it, but it's the wrong way around? Um, so you know, we do lots of work with senior execs. Actually a lot of the coaching stuff we do is exactly the same. You know, values, boundaries, ways of working, all of that sort of stuff. It's the same. And actually if you're equipping people with those sorts of things right at the start, then think how much smoother sailing their careers could be. But, but coaching's expensive. So we have to find different ways of equipping managers and um, organizations as a whole to kind of provide some of that, that stuff instead of it having to be a one to one

Georgia: exec coach and for it also to be done so later, uh, on. I couldn't, I honestly couldn't agree more. I personally, I don't think I thought about my core values in a work context until potentially even starting my own business. Like it just wasn't, it just wasn't something that I had prioritized. But what Would you say to somebody who is more junior in their career, they are on that new journey, what would you say to them as from the perspective of why is it so important to know these values earlier on?

Jess Ringer: I, I think that a lot of the youngsters coming into the workplace now they are more purpose focused and they do have a slightly better sense of what's important to them and how they want to operate. So it's a different job. I think somebody now to me all those years ago, um, I think what I would be saying to them is like give it the love and attention that it deserves because if you do it will help you to make intentional choices and intentional choices equal. Landing where we want to be. Um, so spending time articulating what's important to you then means when you're in a place where you're having to kind of push back or set boundaries or any of the stuff that we know we need to equip, equip these people with, you can do it from m. A place of knowing what's important and that's really important.

Georgia: It is. Honestly I actually see that as a downfall sometimes to some people where they've not, they've not honed into what's actually important to them and then it sometimes only takes from exiting that they realize that organization actually never aligned with me. But if they could have saved themselves a hell of a lot of work earlier on if they would identify that I'm going to put my management cap on here. If I was a manager, what is something that I could do to support those people during that stage, during the early careers process?

Jess Ringer: I think, I think there's a whole lot before we go into what managers can do, I think there's a whole lot of stuff around what managers need to understand. So there's a context setting piece in my opinion with youngsters coming into the workplace and that context setting pieces like how and, and where have they you know, experienced life and um, grown up. So if we just kind of timeline it, you know, I'm Gen Z, I'm Gen Alpha. Um, I've lived um, you know, Gen Z have lived probably in a place where mum and dad used to have a bit of money and then all of a sudden there's a financial crash, right? So there's loads of money worry. So that's context set number one is finance. And they've seen their parents having to squeeze and they've seen loads of stress around money. They're also a generation who have grown up, the first generation who have grown up really, really through screens, right? So before them we, you know, I used to go out to play mum, see you later. She'd be like, come back when he's dark. Um, and through that I learned a ton of skills around like how to react to challenging situations that I call them human skills, skills that I use in the workplace all the time. And this generation, because they kind of lived in a way that grew up in a way that is almost a bit more asynchronous. So you imagine I go to the playground, someone shoves me over, ah, and in the moment I'm having to deal with like how do I respond to that person there and my knee hurts and this and that. And there's a ton of in the moment life, human dealing with people lessons that you learn. This generation, somebody says something mean about them on TikTok and um, they mull on it and they don't have to deal with it in the moment and it grows and that develops a level of anxiety and um, and in some cases a ah, lack of skill in like dealing with stuff in the moment. So you've got that, you then got. Okay, I'm starting my first job from my bedroom because it's Covid, right. So again what that does is it builds number one, it builds this kind of quite cool. Oh, hang on. We can be productive from home and you know, I can finish work at 5 because actually I'm just upstairs and you know, all of that sort of stuff. Um, but again it also builds this like maybe a bit of anxiety around an office space and there's none of that kind of water cooler moments and all the cheesy old stuff that we talk about from the olden days. Right. So for managers and whole organizations, I don't think it's just managers but for managers and leaders to really support they have to build that level of um, understanding first around anxiety. You know, there's a book out there and I can't remember the author, I will find it, but there's a book out there, it's called the Anxious Generation. And it's about, it's exactly that. It's about the context that these people have grown up in. They need loads of reassurance, they need support with human skills, they need support with pushing back and boundaries but delivering it in the right way. And they need um, encouragement because there's this kind of anxiety around how to operate in today's workplace with these elephants who are going to. We just did it, you know, worked really hard all the hours because we had To. And that, that's. That that lack of understanding is, I think, where we see the most friction.

Georgia: And also retrospectively, Gen Z currently make up 18% of the workforce, but by 2030 they will be 30%. This is an ever growing challenge. Absolutely. That we're having. And I'm also thinking, so I am born in 1996. My birthday's in July. So I am a millennial by six months. Months.

Jess Ringer: I'm a millennial by six months. But at the other end. So I was born in 83.

Georgia: We're both millennials. There we go. But what I'm thinking with that is I have got friends who are slightly younger than me and they fall into the category of Gen Z of which they have grown up only in the digital era. Yeah, like Internet, all of that was available to them. They didn't have a time without. It goes back to your point, actually, around the context setting, because it's different. And that's the reality that organizations need to adapt to. The phrase I hear all the time of, well, I didn't used to do that or I just got on with just doesn't work.

Jess Ringer: Doesn't work. No, I agree. I agree. So I think there's a piece around, you know, um, Becky and I, when we work with teams, we try and take like a whole system approach. Right. So you're not just building skills in the managers, you're not just building skills in the, you know, early care is you need to build, we call it intergenerational intelligence. Right. So what that means is if you are a leader in an organization, that organization needs to understand that there's going to be all these different generations and to build a level of understanding around what's going on for each of them. Right. So we talk a lot about like human focused leadership. You can't, you can't meet a human where they are and support them in the right way if you don't understand the context that they've grown up in. So in terms of like, um, you know, part, I think part of the manager's role in supporting that is a level of understanding and, you know, effective feedback and um, lots of reassurance and all of those sorts of things, but actually it's about advocating as well. So if I'm a manager and I've got people in my team and I'm encouraging them to push back and um, you know, set clear boundaries but communicate it in the right way and all of that sort of thing, I also need to be educating people above me in, well, this is the context. They're not lazy, they're hard working and boundaried. And actually if I look at myself in my early career, I was a busy fall. Like um, I just said yes to everything because I just wanted to impress. And we, we run an early careers program and that's what we see. So much of the lack of understanding from the top and then they're cascading down and can you help with this? And can you do this? And then that anxiety from the bottom of kind of wanting to impress. It's about educating everyone so that people, you know, we need to teach people to prioritize. Actually it's not just early careers that need to learn to prioritize though. It's everybody.

Georgia: It isn't. Oh gosh, yeah, no, absolutely. I think a lot of us can take a learning from there. You were talking before around advocating and I think that's also a really refreshing perspective. Like we should be advocating our team, you know, constructively challenge me on this. I want you to like we as leaders should be enabling them to grow. I'd be curious to understand how else can we get that rich data and feedback from, from our uh, more junior team members and I guess potentially opening this up to others to understand their context a little bit better.

Jess Ringer: How can we do that? Questions like, I'll always bang the coaching drum because it is, you know, in most cases the best way to bring people along. It's the best way to develop people. Um, as a manager you can ask with a ton of curiosity and get so much from people. You've just got to ask the right questions. Um, so, so actually, you know, managers can go on coaching programs, we do all of that, but really all it's about, we use that word, curiosity. Just have a chat with people, find out, you know, about their life and about who they are as a person. You know, yes, you can work for a coach with hours and for hours and hours on values or you can just say to someone, hey, what gets you out of bed in the morning? What are you excited about? How can I help you to kind of steer your career in a way that's going to kind of tap into that why for you, that stuff that's really important. And we know that Gen Z in particular are really motivated by that word, purpose. Right? They've grown up in a world where we've got climate change happening and all of that sort of stuff. Purpose is really important. So tapping into that, this is also

Georgia: where, tapping into actually what is a priority for your team, your people your demographic, you will see such a benefit internally but also commercially at the same time. Because if you are really positioning your purpose, it's understood you've got your vision. Your vision, your mission and your values. That's also going to attract incredible talent.

Jess Ringer: Yeah.

Georgia: But on the same side, we've then got to be able to keep them. So leaning into what is actually important to them is such a great strategy for it. I'm just curious to know when it comes to expectations for people. I have had it at the moment where middle management are, uh, struggling in their own terms with junior talent and especially early careers around expectations and pushback, potentially due to the, um, context setting you were just talking about earlier. I also used to play out and if someone did push me, my dad would say, well, stand up for yourself.

Jess Ringer: Yeah.

Georgia: Whereas I think potentially online on TikTok, if we get hate messages, we're told to just ignore it. M. So how in a work context, when we have junior team members, can we start to build their resilience, I guess around expectations?

Jess Ringer: Ah, at work. Yeah. Um, there's. I think there's a piece around communication, isn't there? Because if I don't know how to push back, it's really difficult for me to push back. So there's a piece around psych.

Georgia: Do.

Jess Ringer: Do they know how to say no? Do they know? Do they have clarity on providing feedback? If somebody said something in a way that maybe they didn't like or you know, just like you say, those kind of. Someone pushed me over in the playground. I learned that when I was really young. Maybe these guys don't have as much of that. So I think there's a piece around communication and then I think there's also a piece around, um, clarity at M the front end. So, you know, hiring people fresh out of education, when they join you, they're not just learning how to do the job like somebody who's done a job before. They're learning how to do going to work. And that requires a hand holding and a level of support that is entirely different to people who have had a job before. So I think it's about, um, being really clear around, you know, when you need to be in the office and lunch breaks and all of the kind of structural stuff. And then that communication piece, feedback delivery and pushing back and saying no and um, prioritizing what's important both to your own values, but to the values of the organization. Um, you know, if they, if we can equip them with those two things, then I think that in Itself, It's. It enables them to understand the framework that they're operating within. Then we build coaching on top, and it's about questioning and curiosity and teaching them to think for themselves. And then layered on top of that, it's building their confidence. So it's reassurance and price, which feels like such a silly thing for me to say. It's always the last thing that people want to talk about. On our programs, you know, we deliver a, uh, training on. On feedback delivery. And it's a really popular one. In fact, it's the one that goes the most. And people are like, right, I don't know how to give feedback. And it's always constructive. You're just like, that's just not as, you know, it's not the only thing. Um, so teaching managers to better feedback in a really constructive way, structured way, um, when someone's doing something well is just as important as the corrective stuff. All of that's about, you know, we talk about them as the anxious generation. It's about building confidence. And then resilience comes with that, I think.

Georgia: And it's also, how can we take away the anxiety around that for an anxious generation? You were talking before around clarity, and I think that's such a missing piece of explaining the why. So when we're saying we need everybody in, in the office, as an example, I need you to be there at your start team, start time.

Jess Ringer: Why?

Georgia: Yeah, why is that important?

Jess Ringer: We really.

Georgia: And I'd love to see this a lot more of just taking it back, like bringing it back to basics and explaining it for a generation that they are unaware. There is a lot of social media, and we see work portrayed a lot in TV series and movies, but that perception of work compared to the reality is very different, especially in a new world.

Jess Ringer: Yeah. And, you know, we work with managers a lot. You know, uh, three things that are super important to this generation are, uh, well, being money and purpose. So purpose is such a big, lofty word. And I think sometimes our kind of middle managers will be like, oh, God, like, how are we going to. I don't want to sit down and talk to this person for hours and hours about what their life purpose is, but actually flipping that, uh, into like, no, it's literally educating them in the purpose of what they're doing and why it's important. So I need you to do this. Here's why. It builds a picture of the kind of wider system, and that's education. So you shouldn't ever be operating really with anybody who you're managing, but specifically with this group where you're just giving them instructions and telling them what to do. And I think often that's their experience, particularly of these kind of more senior management managers there, you know, there's tons of research out there which says like our, our younger generations feel like they're being micromanaged and, and um, kind of Molly. Col. Molly coddled in a lot of ways. They want to be inspired. They don't want somebody breathing down the neck all the time. So it's about shifting our approach to what they need.

Georgia: They're also a very entrepreneurial generation, which I think is so desperately needed within organizations. We should really be celebrating their initiative and enthusiasm and curiosity. Yeah, it helps them as professional, but it also helps us as an organization.

Jess Ringer: But we need to build for that. Yeah. And again, that coaching approach, helping them to feel like they've got a voice, actually listening to them. Like the amount of work we do with managers on actually listening instead of pretending to listen. And you know, in that work, what we're doing is we're saying, listen to what a person's saying, but try and listen to what they're not saying as well. So, you know, what are the important beliefs and ethics and, and um, values that are coming through in what they're talking about and how can you hook into them and inspire your, you know, this generation by linking what they're doing to something that's important to them. Um, because then their confidence builds, they get more excited and that's when you get like innovation and challenge and all of that stuff. Um, if you're just telling them what to do, they're not going to give you any of that.

Georgia: I don't think anybody likes to be told what to do as well, regardless of generation. You said innovation then and it did fill my whole body with joy because that is, that is what we all want. Innovative companies are leading from the front and if we can get our early talent and everybody else within the organization on board as well, it's an absolute win. Win. You were talking just then around the three areas that are really important. Purpose, money and well being. Can you talk to me about money in that context?

Jess Ringer: Yeah, sure. So what, um, what the research says and kind of what we see in the companies that we're working in is like I said, if I grew up in a world where mum and dad maybe had some money, then there was this financial crash and then it all got really tight and really stressy and horrid and actually I didn't Have a brain that was grown up enough to process all of that. As I then grow up, money becomes something that actually is a bit anxiety driving or is important. And so what, what we're typically seeing is this kind of, um, this person coming into the workplace who's like, I need to earn enough money to be able to survive and to live a nice life in, you know, where I am right now. Uh, quite often the, you know, tying in with the well being piece, they might say, well actually I'd quite like to work four days a week. What our, what our organizations don't realize is yes, they quite like to work four days a week. It's not because they're sitting on their bums on a Friday off. Some of them have started a side hustle. They're doing something that's maybe a bit more focused on their purpose because they're not getting it at work. And so actually they're the opposite of lazy. They're really savvy. Um, and there's so much that we, as you know, the aging generation can, can learn from them. Um, so yeah, that, that's the money piece. It's understanding that context, um, and that it's important.

Georgia: This is also where as well, I think for us as organizations, we can start to build out. What does that actually look like from a attraction and retention perspective of what is important? Money is important. Like we all have lives. Yes, we come to work and we get a salary, but we also really prioritize other things. But how can we lean into that? So how can we actually financially provide education to our people? How can we better support them? Do we actually need people in the office five days a week where they're paying train fares and transport? No, no, we don't need that. And then equally, you said then around wellbeing is such an important topic. And I'm actually really grateful for Gen Z to be having these really bold conversations about well being and bringing that into the workplace when previously it has been quite of a taboo topic. Have you noticed anything from your client work or any of the early talent that you've spoken with around well being and why that's such a priority for them?

Jess Ringer: Um, let me think. I mean, first of all, it makes me laugh that the language well being immediately switches off the grown ups, right? Because they go, oh, here we go. Yeah, it's mindfulness. It's, you know, whatever it is. Um, so we try and term it differently. And the other thing that kind of um, springs to mind is that the amount of very senior Grown up C suite adults who I coach and I do an exercise with them which is called the fuel gauges. Right. So it's like you imagine that you've got a, um, you're a car and across the front of your bonnet is these three fuel gauges. And those fuel gauges are mind, body and spirit. And I get them to self assess, right. So it will be what am I doing to fuel my mind, what am I doing to fuel my body and what am I doing to fuel my spirit? So the body is obvious, it's exercise, hydration, diet, blah blah blah. Uh, the mind is about growth and learning and all of that sort of thing. And then the spirit is about connecting to something bigger. Right. And our early careers when we do those sorts of conversations, they got it nailed. Their fuel gauges are all up top. The grown ups really depleted, um, they're not focused on those things so they um, so what happens is that they're less resilient. It comes back to that piece around resilience, doesn't it? Like if your, if your three fuel gauges are low when you're faced with challenge, it's really hard for you to respond in a way that's intentional. So you know, something awful happens at work. If I'm exhausted or if I'm depleted in any of those three areas that can be really challenging, um, and difficult for me to have an intentional response.

Georgia: So with the low gauges, what responses do you get from people when visually that's presented to them and they actually start to self identify?

Jess Ringer: It's really interesting because I think people come to coaching going I'm going to have this big light bulb moment or Jess is going to teach me something that is going to.

Georgia: Because you've got all the answers and

Jess Ringer: by the way, the coach isn't supposed to have any of the answers. Um, and actually what they do, what we find is that they're going, oh ah God. Actually I should just be going to bed on time and not doom scrolling on LinkedIn or you know, whatever your social media tipple is before I go to sleep or I should be making sure that I get out and I go for a walk around the block if I'm in back to back meetings or all of that stuff. And really what, what I find when we're coaching people who are older is it takes much longer for us to get them to have that light bulb moment because they're used to just beasting themselves. You know, we talk about busy fall, um, so, so they find it much more Difficult. And actually I have to do more work on. Talk to me about a bad version of you. We do quite a lot of work using psychometric profiles. So we use insights. There's some really nice language in insights around good day and bad day behaviors. So you kind of have this thing with anybody who we're using those with. It's like, right, talk to me about your good day behaviors. And um, you know, for me, I lead with what's called sunshine yellow energy, hence blouse. Um, and on a. On a good day, that's positivity and enthusiasm and gung ho. On a bad day, that's like frantic, hasty, chaotic. So we sometimes have to take our senior execs on a much longer journey to get them m. To realize the impact of lower fuel gauges is bad day behaviors takes youngsters way less. It's way quicker to go. Okay. And on the whole, their gauges are more middling. Whereas. Whereas the, uh, kind of more senior execs, the people who are leading our organizations aren't bringing their best selves to work because they're exhausted.

Georgia: We also, at the start of this episode, we're talking around the core values and us as individuals knowing those ahead of time before we go into work. But also to the piece that you were just talking then about managers. I think we as managers need to also know what our good days and our bad days and how we show up and what that looks like before we actually take on any early talent.

Jess Ringer: Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, we do coach training and we talk about in our coach training this piece around, um, the iceberg. Right. And I think thinking about it like an iceberg you've got above the surface of the water, is that the way that these people are behaving, right. Or the way that we're perceiving these people are behav. And then underneath is their life experience. So all that stuff that we talked about with like, you know, um, Covid, financial crisis, all of that, their values, the biases, the beliefs that they've been handed down from the parents, all of that sort of thing. So you've got that concept of an iceberg. And that's really useful when we're teaching managers in how to get the best out of their early careers talent. The crux of it though is that you got two icebergs in the room because you've got the early careers talent, but you've also got the manager. And for managers to be developing a depth of self awareness that goes well. Actually, I do have a mindset that Says that, you know, Georgia over there is a bit lazy because she rocks up to work at whatever time. And I know that that's wrong. And so, so sometimes it's about really helping the manager to get to a depth of understanding about what are their triggers and what are their assumptions that maybe they might need to have a little shift of. So managers learning their values as well as. Yeah, we're big on values.

Georgia: I think, I think there's a piece of work for both parties with this. And naturally when the discovery of those is done, I can only assume that then the relationship is much more harmonious as well. Because we all just want to do a good job like we don't want to. No one wants to come to work and have a really bad day and a challenging team member. Um, like people are complex. We also are really good at what we do. That's why we're employed in a technical skill basis. Managing people is naturally the hardest part of an organization. So if we can do our self discovery, if our team can also do their own individual discovery and come together, what a world that would be.

Jess Ringer: Absolutely. And I guess that's the pieces, you know, when I was preparing for this and thinking about it, you know, what can managers be doing with early careers, talent to support them and you know, little nuggets, that sort of thing. Actually it's about zooming out and taking like a whole system approach. So do our um, leadership really understand the percentage of people coming into the organization? And actually these are going to be the people that are going to take our organization into the future. Yeah. And are we setting up the structures and the policies and the how many days we need to be in the office and all of that Gubbins like, are we setting all of that up in a way that is right Then are we equipping the managers and do managers. So many middle managers, our managers, because they were great individual contributors and they're really not strong in. Yeah people. And quite often what happens is I'm so good at doing all the doing myself and you know, maybe I'm beating myself to do that because that's what I was told when I was younger or whatever it is then I find myself in this manager position and I'm told I have to let go of everything that I was good at, uh, and start to facilitate other people doing that. And those other people are different from me because they're of a different generation. That's really hard. So there's a lot of work to do. I think with managers on setting Expectations, deeper understanding of the people that they're working with, clarity, communication, feedback, you know, loads and loads of stuff. And, you know, we're talking today specifically about Gen Z. That stuff's important across the board. It's important managing anyone. And then with the youngsters coming in as they're being inducted into our organizations, it's things like feedback and growth are really important here. We're going to teach you how to deliver feedback as well as receive it. Um, um, we want to hear what you've got to say because it's really valuable, um, supporting them with boundaries and pushing back and all of those sorts of things and building their confidence as well, which, like we said, is really important and I think sometimes forgotten if a manager is pressure from the top and overwhelmed and, you know, all of that other stuff.

Georgia: So it's also really refreshing to hear from that perspective because there's so much that we can do and it's also really positive. And I'm just thinking as well, from the perspective of being in HR and changing my manager hat to a, uh, HR professional hat, I feel from this conversation that it, we're moving in a really good direction with it. There's loads of positive change that are happening. Could we do things better? Yeah, absolutely. We are also currently in a situation where we've got Gen Z, but we've also got Gen Alpha. So we need to be very proactive with what we're doing. And if we're not investing in our managers today with that coaching style, get it on your agenda. Communicate that with senior stakeholders and get them to understand the ROI as they all speak the business language and, um, why it's important they will bring such innovative ideas, creativity and curiosity. And that's what we all need within our organizations. So, Jess, unfortunately, I've only got one last question for you during this and I really want to reflect on when you were in your early stages of your career. And the question is, looking back, what is one piece of advice you would give your younger self?

Jess Ringer: Oh, um, I think one piece of advice I'd give my younger self, I think probably it's. It would be to, to lean into, showing people who I really am. So when I started out in the workplace, I'm a big personality, Got a lot to say. I get very excited. I'm a bit bossy. I'm the oldest of nine children, so, yeah, huge. So. And actually when I started at work, I thought that I had to kind of box that in and tone it all down as I grew up. And I And I learned this too late, I think. But as I grew up, I suddenly realized that, oh, actually, this big personality and this kind of, you know, slight chaos and, um, loud voice and fun, that's what makes me different and what makes me special. M. Um.

Georgia: And that should be celebrated.

Jess Ringer: And that should be celebrated. Right? So. So it's a. I. I think that the bit of advice would be like, just be you and don't worry so much about what everybody else thinks. Um, yeah, I love that.

Georgia: Ah, that's really important. And I. I do feel like a lot of people will really connect to. To that we're told that we should show up a certain way at work as well, when the reality is we actually get a better, uh, response and progress through our careers if we're just our authentic selves.

Jess Ringer: Yeah, absolutely. And all that stuff we talked around with values, work, and, um, you know, this generation who maybe are more anxious socially, it makes it even more important.

Georgia: Amazing, honestly. Thank you so much for sharing. This has been really eye opening for me, but I do feel really positive. We can see all the change, which is great. And I just know for the next generation coming through, we are building for the future. And that makes me happy too.

Jess Ringer: Yeah, definitely. Thanks so much. Thank you.