International Hiring Strategy: How to Find, Contract & Onboard Your First Employee Abroad

AS: Okay, if that's the wrong hire, how much it will cost to the company DS: You are selling yourself to the candidate. They will consider buying you or not. AS: Treat your hiring process as the constant hypothesis validations. 'Cause people, they want to work with sane, adequate people in the end. DS: Hi, I'm Dmytro Shvets, your host at the Start Global Insights, where I interview experts from different countries about local business secrets AS: and international expansion experience. DS: At some point of international expansion, many businesses face the question of hiring people in other countries. It can be a local salesperson, or the manager of the representative office, or even the whole team. This journey is not easy and, uh, has a lot of hidden traps. To avoid them, I invited a true expert in this field. My guest today is Andriy Strekhaliuk, founder and CEO of executive search agency Astra+ and a visiting lecturer at UCU Business School. Andriy has, uh, more than 14 years of experience in executive search, building HR functions, and leading team transformations within a global framework. Hi Andriy, and welcome to the show. AS: Hello, Dmytro. Thanks for having me here. DS: Andriy, I know that you helped different companies from small and, uh, to world famous big, uh, um, enterprises. Could you give, uh, our listeners some background of your experience in few words, the type of services you provided, and the geographies, uh, you've been working in? AS: My journey started with international executive search firm back in 2011, where I spent a couple of years as a, a senior researcher, and then I was doing, um, similar job but on the client side. I was a part of DuPont EMEA talent acquisition, uh, uh, function. We were basically building the proactive talent sourcing, talent acquisition function for the whole region, and this is to the, to your point about the geographies, it covered US, UK, uh, Eastern Europe, Western Europe, uh, uh, north of Africa, and, uh, uh, other countries. And then I was, uh, I helped Mondelez International to build the talent acquisition function in Ukraine and Eurasia. At that moment, uh, this region covered 11 countries with active hiring, I guess in five or six, from Israel, Ukraine, Belarus. Uh, then, uh, I spent a few years in IT, uh, companies, mainly working for the technology, both in outsourcing and also in startups. And here the geographies covered Europe, Ukraine, and US, like Silicon Valley and, uh, mm, the types of hirings and searches. DS: I also know that you, you've spent several years, uh, several recent years in UK. Um, did you get, uh, uh, the perspective of this market as well? AS: Oh, yeah. I almost forgot about that already. So I did my, uh, my MBA at, uh, Uni of Glasgow in the, in the UK. I had a project, um, hiring project there as well, and, uh, while staying there, I was lucky to be mentored by one of the most successful UK exec search, uh, firms who provide, like, 18 months, uh, guarantee f- for their searches, which is craziness in terms of, uh, exec search. So I gained some experience there, and after completing an MBA, I started, uh, Astra Plus, which is, uh, you know, a logical step for me after being part of an agency. Uh, but as an employee then being in-house leading talent acquisition functions, and now I'm helping other, uh, leaders and talent acquisition directors to fill positions in Ukraine and, uh, and worldwide, actually. Yeah. DS: Coming back to our topic, uh, of hiring people abroad, uh, what is, uh, from your experience, yeah, in working with different countries and different companies, what are the typical mistakes when, uh, companies are trying to hire someone not in their country? AS: So first of all, uh, the first mistake that I would say is under treating the other locations as if they, they, they are your country, meaning that you just copy your approach, uh, towards the, uh, the new location, new geographies without the preliminary research. And usually the, the, the positions that we work with there are critical because it could be the number one position in the location or, you know, the, the first team there. I'll give an example. When you have your, um, job descriptions that work for you in U- in Ukraine, for instance, or in Sweden, and then you go to the Middle East, for instance, right? Uh, it, it might work, but still, uh, it would be mi- much wiser to really adapt them to include the cul- cultural differences and understand the cultural behaviors there. And you can do that easily. You can do it on your own, you know, starting with what you've got already and testing and probing how it works. But it's crucial to embed in your hiring process this research and, uh, discovery part that you, you try not only to fill the role, but really to understand in, uh, after each iteration that, okay, what I've learned about the location, what is the ca- uh, candidate behavior there, how it's different from us, what might, w- what risks do I see now, and so on. And I'm not even mentioning the salary levels 'cause usually they, the, the companies when they start They make some assumptions on salaries and, or they just trust one source of that information about the, the, the market salaries. But that's not enough, and you need to treat your search, your hiring process as the hyp- constant hypothesis validations when you work, uh, uh, towards hiring a new person in a new DS: location. Yeah, uh, uh, actually, uh, I'm listening to you and I think that, uh, this is, uh, very similar to what I'm consulting my clients in terms of sales. Uh, 'cause, uh, if you are going, uh, to distant market and then you are starting to sell your value proposition there, you need to adapt it to the local clients, to their, uh, values, um, or expected values and, uh, pains. And, uh, in this case, this is exactly the same, but you are selling yourself to the candidate because, uh, they will also consider buying you or not, yes? We're, we're not like in the Middle Ages when, uh, you just, uh, got slaves for you, yes? This is a partnership, uh, business and, uh, they need to accept you as a partner, so that's, that's un- understandable, yes? You need to make the preliminary job of understanding the focus market and, uh, the, um, peculiarities- Yeah … of this market. AS: You, you're absolutely right. Uh, I, I want to highlight here the kind of, uh, uh, lean or lean startup approach when you really work with hypothesis. You test it and you need to do it cheaply. You need to do it cheap 'cause you don't want to spend lots of time and, and money, you know, h- with your employer value proposition that you've got and Figure out very late that it doesn't work. You know, y- y- y- you have to adjust it. Uh, so that, that's n- number one in terms of this iterative approach is very important when you do the, the research. But I, I, I assume that for your… for the listeners of your podcast, Metro, it might be interesting to know what, look, we are not present there yet, like we are starting, for instance, a company in, in, um, Romania, for instance, and, uh, no one knows us there. What should we do? How should we attract? How should we build that trust that you just mentioned, right? DS: Yeah. Yeah. AS: Um, mmm, that's, that's a challenge. And, um, first I'm gonna give you an example for, um, for a startup that, uh, I, I was hiring a couple of years ago. Uh, a- and then maybe from that, uh, experience, uh, the listeners will understand the main patterns, how you can… or tactics, how you can deal with that. DS: Mm. AS: So we were hiring the, um, uh, sales engineering director, someone who work with OEMs, like companies like Lenovo, Samsung, and so on, um, but for a online privacy startup. So, uh, it was an early stage startup clo- close to scale up already, but no one knew about it, like… And even the founders, they were, uh, really cautious to share, to give away a lot of informations 'cause everyone wanted to jump in, into that domain. And it was tricky 'cause you need to hire a person without, you know, giving them information what they, what they will be building, uh, when they join. So what kind of strategies you can do here? Uh, first, and I, I s- I think that this, this might be relevant to any business. Um, uh, so focus on, on your DNA and your mission. So if you're an agricultural company, you obviously, you know, you want to earn money, right? You're focused on profits, but not merely. You have some idea behind the business that you can sell. You have a story to tell. I mean, the history of the company, what you've achieved so far, and even the whole fact that you are being in Ukraine that you are expanding to Europe, to European market, wow, that s- sounds in-intriguing. So first focus on your DNA and really the, uh, your vision and the problem that you're trying to solve, 'cause that creates some emotional bonds. And if all across the hiring process, all the hiring managers in your team convey that message, convey that energy, it will help you. 'Cause people, they want to work with sane, adequate people in the end. And if you are, you know, highlighting, if you're, uh, showing this from the very beginning, that could be an advantage already, even if you don't have a brand there. DS: This can also act as a filter. Yeah, so the b- y- you, you also would like to hire people that would match your values or your vision. Yeah, and, um, then when you communicate your vision or your mission- Yeah to the market, so then in this way you are filtering the inflow, uh, to potential candidates. AS: Absolutely. Absolutely. So for instance, if you are talking to candidates who are very money driven, and you understand that you really cannot provide a lot at this stage, but you can Provide a promotion in a year because you're starting a new business, you understand that the company will grow there and expand. Mm-hmm. And those who request the immediate, you know, income im- immediate, uh, might not be the best candidates for you 'cause you want someone- Mm-hmm … who will really share your vision and also someone who wants to be glued to the, to this, to this company long term, right? DS: Okay. AS: Yeah. DS: Yeah. AS: So the second one, the second, uh, strategy would be the, uh, transparency really 'cause it's about building trust. You build trust with transparency. You… A- and again, it's not about… So for instance, if you work with a, with an agency like, like ours, um, we can be quite transparent, and we always are transparent with our candidates 'cause it's, uh, not one-way street, it's a always, um, a two-way street relationship. After that, if they come to the owner or to the CEO and they are contradicting what we've conveyed to the, uh, to the candidate, they might become suspicious, and that won't be the, mm, you know, the, the good, uh, practice, and it won't be efficient for you in terms of hiring. That's why we- Mm-hmm … also embed c- a bit of coaching when it comes to the international hiring so that the hiring managers know how to behave. DS: The message should be consistent, yeah, among the- AS: Absolutely … DS: all players. AS: Yeah. DS: Mm-hmm. AS: Yeah. Yeah. Transparency and consistency, they are, they are keys here. The third one, the third one is, uh, the, the approach that I've already mentioned. Uh, treat this search as a discovery 'cause, uh, you sometimes clients, they start the search with, uh, one position by… but in the middle of the search, they understand, "Okay, we need to ma- uh, to make a, a pivot here 'cause we can't hire th- that type of person. Maybe we should f- hire someone more, someone more junior." So this is constant learning about the market and gaining information from, from the market. And once you gain the information, you can tailor your approach, you know, and, and hire the best people, uh, there eventually. DS: Okay. And if, if we will, um, advise, uh, the beginners, yeah? For example, some company would like to hire a sales, uh, manager m- in a specific country, let's say in Germany. Yep. What could be their roadmap, uh, to do that? Uh, what steps d- should they take to make it more systematic? AS: Um, there are two options here. Uh, so the first option, if you have the internal ca- uh, capacity and capability, you can do it on your own. The second option is to work with companies like, like ours, so that they could provide, uh, initial research for you. Uh, there are pros and cons. Uh, I mean, it really depends whether you have this capability inside. So if you're doing that, um, um, relying on your, uh, own resources, then your, uh, recruitment talent acquisition, uh, HR team, I would recommend always to start with the, with the research. So really to test the background, to understand even which country we should pick. Maybe you are talking about Bulgaria, but Romania could be, uh, better, or Spain, and, uh, maybe, uh, you want to, uh, focus more really on France. So it depends. Uh, you need to understand what is the, uh, talent market there Uh, what are the legal requirements, uh, taxation, and s- so on, right? DS: And maybe, maybe why, why do you need this person, yeah? So if it is, uh, more the remote sales and you just need the person that speaks the French language, it can be, I don't know, the Canadian one or or- Could be … uh, some- some- someone in Belgium. Yeah, if, if it is, uh, more easy to, uh, find the person for you. AS: Yeah, you are actually talking about the step zero. Really know who, what you want and who are you looking for. Mm. And that's the job that, uh, either internal, uh, talent acquisition team or, uh, executive search company, uh, should do for you. Really to challenge the hiring managers to understand, okay, why are we targeting this profile? Maybe it's wiser to, you know, um, really hire a Canadian and, uh, because we already have someone there, uh, or we can even cover s- uh, the, the specific need using the internal capabilities. DS: Mm. AS: And knowing our business need, knowing what we are… our, our goal, then we start with the research as the first phase. Mm-hmm. Right? DS: And if we are researching, what are the main points, the, at least the minimum that you should research? AS: So if you do that internally, uh, so you need to understand, uh, the market overall in terms of economics and trends. And if you are, uh, somehow presented in that country already, you can gain this from the reports from your sales teams, right? Uh, well, there is a reason why you are hiring that, uh, that person, so you have done already some preliminary research. But maybe, uh, while, uh, you know, exploring that information, you can have overlooked something that is related to talent or how, uh, quickly we can find the talent there. So it might be the case, uh, and you should use this information. Secondly, it's about the talent availability. So if you're looking about the salespeople, uh, or engineers, right? Do they have a hubs for engineer m- engineering managers there, right? What, how does the sales work? Uh, after that, obviously you want to know the, the budget for the role. Mm. You have your own ideas. Um, but, uh, when you face the reality, your, your, your ideas, they won't crash, but they, they will be adjusted for sure. Mm. And even when we start with the, with the clients, so they have the budget, then we do the, the, the search and we say, "Look, we can propose you these profiles and it will cost you X amount of money, and these profiles-" Mm …"Y amount of money." So you need to understand the options in terms of the budgets. And, um, uh, yeah, and after that, really cultural nuances that, that you will be working with. So legal is one part, but also the candidate behavior is different. And if with the legal it's more obvious, you can, you can, you can, you can Google it, you can find, you can consult with the lawyers, right? When it comes to, um, the, the candidate behaviors, often you learn it on the go. So, and it's-- I wouldn't say that's not the only way, but that's how you really learn the information. 'Cause if you read about something, you don't really know what does it mean that, uh, people are focused on their wellbeing, you know, and they- Mm-hmm uh, uh, ask others to respect their personal kind of, um, uh, borders if, if you want. Then you move to more proactive when you validate those, uh, the profile that you've got an employer value proposition by actively contacting the candidates. And here starts the, your, uh, assessment, uh, phase. And this assessment, it should-- it usually includes some, um, pre-screen calls, so initial calls, and the number of interviews that you've got. By the way, it really depends on what market you work, 'cause, uh, in some markets you need to be really agile and, and fast, and to limit the amount of, of interviews. In some markets you can be more at ease and, and have the proper, you know, uh, uh, interviewing process. It should be proper always, but still add some other, uh, stakeholders. And then you make the, uh, uh, an offer. But before the making an offer, you should, uh, really understand your employee value proposition from the legal side. What kind of contract do you want? This, your initial idea, let's say, was to open an office there and, you know, hire a per- full-time person, uh, on your contract, on your legal entity. It could be one, but even the recruitment process on the stage research on when you started talking to people, you can understand that, well, we can go with an EOR, basically, um, um, employment, employment of record. So you, you, you can hire a company there that will, uh, keep your new, new person on your, uh, on your payroll. And this is, uh, like, uh, a bit, um- DS: It's like outsourcing, yeah? So you, you are outsourcing some company that, uh, is, uh, hiring, uh, the, uh, person on their legal entity, but you are paying them to do that, yeah? AS: Yeah, that's a partial outsourcing- Mm-hmm … 'cause outsourcing could be one of ano- uh, another model when you actually not just keep the, the, the talent, uh, on their payroll, but when they can provide you the talent from the very beginning. So you can go, for instance, if you're looking for outsourced, outsourced IT team in, uh- Mm-hmm … let's say in Port- uh, in Portugal or Romania, whatever. Mm-hmm. Uh, yeah, there are companies that could provide you those professionals there. DS: Mm-hmm. So they already have these assets, yeah? They, they have people- Yeah, yeah in their list, and they can just lease it to, uh, them to you and, and, uh… Okay, clear. AS: And also you can, uh, hire a freelancer, right? Who will work f- uh, for you. But there is a tricky thing here that if you will hire someone as a freelancer, for instance, but in the job description in your contract, they will have, uh, more tasks in terms of work hours and scope. Mm-hmm. At certain moment, you might be fined, uh, by the leg- uh, by the, uh, local, uh, government. Mm-hmm. And it could be from 45,000 euros, for instance, that you- Mm … uh, violated the, the law 'cause this person should be employed or had the employment of record, uh, type of contract. But I, I want to, to give a disclaimer here because every country is different in terms of legislations. So we are not an expert like, uh, when we provide executive search, we… our focus, it starts on the, your business needs and the, uh, en- environment, and it ends with the, with the onboarding, with the, those ins- wi- within those 12, 12 months. Mm-hmm. In terms of legal experts, we always, uh, engage third parties or the company engages third parties to really go to those nitty, nitty details to be sure- Mm-hmm that you're, you're covered and in terms of the legal, uh, requirements. DS: Mm-hmm. Okay. So you have, uh, interviewed, uh, your potential candidate, and, uh, next, uh, you have selected also the form of cooperation. What's next? How to make sure that these people will, uh, deliver the result, uh, that, uh, uh, you actually expected? AS: Um, the, the first thing is to have a good lawyer in place, uh, with local expertise 'cause- Mm … uh, you need to be sure that the contract that you put in place, um, makes sense for the candidates in terms of overall their understanding is, uh, is in compliance with the, with the legal, uh, all the legal requirements and your, your business goals. Mm. In some countries, like, uh, candidates will ask to, um, you know, write in the contract every detail, every penny if you want. So it- Mm … it, it should be there. Uh, and once it's done, it's the, to… it's a document that could be used by, you know, to two sides, both sides, uh, the candidate, uh, a- and yourself. Um, apart from this, uh, uh, legal aspect, it's important to have a proper onboarding of the candidate, uh, in place. So if you can invite them to your country, if you go and do some business trips there. Mm-hmm. So it will help to, uh, not only onboard and, uh, the candidate and adapt him or her to the, to, to your corporate culture. They need to know your product. They need to know how you work, your advantages, not only based on the nice decks and presentation that you've got, but also to see the people, right? Invite them to spend a couple of weeks and, and so on. It's crucial to have a regular check-ins with the, uh, with that c- uh, uh, candidate. We always advise when we start, and as part of the, the process when the hiring managers tell us, "Okay, I need to sell business development manager, uh, in Norway." And, um, yeah, they… I, I want to double, you know, in- income there in two years. DS: Mm-hmm. AS: And we say, "Okay, but what would be, what they, what w- what shall they do within the first months? What go- how would you assess that this person is performing actually?" DS: Yeah. AS: Yeah. What would be the goal within the first three months and then six months? You know, and that's the, uh, kind of agreement. Uh, uh, those goals, they help you within the, the, the onboarding of, uh, of, of the candidate. And, um, yeah, another bit that is important here is, uh, I'll get back again to the legal part. You need to think about the exit strategy and understand the amount of money Okay, if this n- that's the wrong hire, how much it will cost to the company, right? Uh, in terms of I'm not counting the whole, uh, uh, mis- uh- Journey … yeah, the whole journey or the whole, the price of the, the hiring mistake holistically when you, it could be, you know, three, four, five, uh, uh, uh, salaries of, of a candidate. And when we're talking about the, uh, h- high level roles, it's quite a lot, and you need to start the process all, all over again. But even if we decide that, okay, that it doesn't work, uh, just it doesn't work and we need to hire someone else or open a new position, um, then you need to understand how much will you pay the severance package and, uh, how much salaries we're talking about so that you plan this in advance, and this again gets back to the, uh, to the employment. Yeah, and then hopefully once you've hired, you can establish, you can grow the team, and you can use the, that local, uh, asset for your, uh, upcoming hiring, uh, projects. DS: Mm-hmm. Yeah, to multiply the, the experience that you already had. AS: Yeah. Yeah. DS: Um, talking about this, uh, trust and transparency that you have been talking about, uh, at the beginning of our conversation, mm, should the company have, uh, some kind of digital footprint before they start, uh, hiring the person? Yeah, because the person should, uh, the person will, uh, Google them, yeah, for sure to understand who they are. AS: Here I would say that, and that's one of the mistakes of the, when people hire talents abroad, it's not just English anymore. It's not- Mm … just having the global approach. So, uh, you need to focus on the country that you are targeting. So for instance, if we're talking about, uh, Argentina, uh, then it's would be mu- much better to have the JDs, job descriptions, and announcement company descriptions translated and valid- i- into, uh, Spanish, and please validate this with someone who is already there so that they will provide you not just, uh, feedback in terms of, uh, translation, but also, "Hey, we… you can't put it here. That's go- that will scare off all the candidates," right? And it's also- Mm … a sign for the candidates that you, you are a- actually treating this seriously, you know, and you are caring about, uh, about hiring. Yeah. DS: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. A- a- actually, this is the same advice that I'm giving to exporters before, before they are starting selling because, um, this is also about the consistency. If you are communicating some message to your potential partner, the same message should be present on your digital assets and internet. Andriy, uh, if we are coming to more practical stuff, um, to give some more n- information to our listeners, uh, what about some tools, yeah, what, what you can use? Uh, maybe you have, uh, an arsenal of, uh, different instruments in your, uh, experience. Like for example, where to search candidates, or maybe you can also suggest, uh, where to have information about the salaries, uh, at the proper market, um, some, some, uh, this type of advice. AS: When it comes to the stage one after stage zero, right, when you need to do the market research, there are plenty of information available, uh, online at the moment in different formats. So whenever you have, uh, whenever you wanna, uh, search for candidates and hire a person, you can even go to YouTube and hear, learn about, uh, someone, uh, someone's experience of hiring there. DS: Mm-hmm. AS: Uh, so plenty of publicly available information. Also, you can, uh, talk to colleagues who have already hired there. Yeah. So- Mm-hmm … I mean, other companies that used to work with a distri- distributor, but then they opened an office there, and even an hour with that person will bring you a lot of insights and will adjust your, your strategies toward hiring, and this is the first step I would recommend you- DS: Mm … AS: l- the listeners, business owners, and CEOs to, uh, to accomplish. If you have your own HR department, this could be a task for them, so, uh, they could, uh, really understand and do the initial Even the LinkedIn, uh, research on the availability of, uh, candidates in certain locations. Mm-hmm. Obviously, uh, every business has certain specific unique criteria which is narrowing down the, uh, the talent pool. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So use this and try to understand the talent availability. DS: Mm-hmm. AS: Uh, you can also, uh, even You know, ask for advice from the local, uh, firm or it… You c- you can ask for a free advice from executive search firm, basically. Yeah. Really, that's a good, that's a good, uh, choice 'cause you can talk to them without any obligations, and then we'll tell you whether they've hired there and, and so on. And even that conversation could be, could, could be quite, uh, uh, meaningful for you and bring a lot of value. Um, then where to h- to hire candidates, right? DS: Mm-hmm. AS: Well, it's a global world, and if you're looking for the, mm, C level or the, the first employee in the country, those people usually sh- would be represented, uh, in, uh, they, they will present on, on LinkedIn. So you can, you can find on the global platforms. If this is a very specific role, if you need someone with agricultural, for instance, background, yeah, you can- Mm-hmm … go to the local resources that will tell you that, uh, you know, here are the people. Some of the companies, your competitors, they have their, for instance, regional sales managers who usually have the, uh, agricultural background listed on their websites, you know? And, and y- Mm-hmm … you can learn the, the, the article. So that would be the, the, the first kind of, uh, approach where to hi- uh, to, to, to find those people. DS: Mm-hmm. AS: Um, it could be local, um, apart from, from LinkedIn and some job boards that are cross-border j- uh, job boards, right? L- like I- Indeed, for instance, Glassdoor. You can, uh, look for the local ones. Some of them have, uh, uh, functionality that allows you to search for the candidates in the database, not just post the jobs. So this could be, uh- Mm-hmm … another, another method. Overall, there are two ways. It's a proactive search where you work with passive candidates, those who are not looking for the, for the job, and active candidates. DS: Mm-hmm. AS: You should start with the, with the second one, with the, you know, passive hiring, just publishing the role and see who will come. Yeah, so this, this in- in- inbound- If it work … network. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, but for the critical roles, uh, often after this initial phase, you eventually do the proactive sourcing of the candidates. So it's r- it's wise to do it, it's simultaneously. DS: Mm-hmm. AS: And when it comes to, uh, the salary reviews, right? So, uh, first- Mm-hmm … my main message would be, uh, don't rely on just single source of information, right? Even if you're, you've paid for it. Mm-hmm. It's a journey, it's a discovery, so it's an iteration. You will eventually know the market in a couple of weeks, you know? Because we're talking to candidates, we're comparing different sources of information. But You can start with- Mm-hmm … the information that is provided on the jo- local job boards or international ones like, uh, the, the Glassdoor, Indeed. They all have, uh, ki- some of information. But this information might be very, m- uh, generic, and they, they use the average numbers, so it might not work for you. And the second aspect is that- DS: Mm-hmm … AS: uh, they are, uh, not, um… The, the candidate expectations are always a bit, a bit higher, uh, than, so you need to validate this information as well. Uh, you can buy this information from Mercer or Hays, for instance, 'cause they have a huge database across most of the countries in terms of the salary levels, uh, function specific and so on. And you can… If you're looking just for a BD or a sales manager, it won't cost you a fortune to, to get this, uh, information. But, uh, honestly, after two weeks you'll know it even without it if you start the search and do the, uh, the candidate, uh, approach. So, um, the paid amount is another source. Then your local contacts. Talk to your distributors. Talk to the partners that you worked with. They have the information. They will provide you some… The… None of these sources is 100% true, you know, but, uh, it will give you the, the overall picture, and after talking to the candidates, which is the, yet another source, you will, you will have understanding. Okay, these type of, of candidates, they cost this amount of money. This is the contract and, and so on. So, uh, that's in terms of the- Great … uh, finding information about salaries. DS: Great. Thank you, Andriy. This is very insightful and several things I have never even thought about, and they are interesting, uh, from non-standard approach. So thank you for sharing your e- expertise. Uh, and uh, maybe tell the listeners where to find you if they would like to- AS: Yeah. So I'm- … cooperate with you … uh, present on, uh, LinkedIn. My name is, uh, I'm, I'm Andrew Strekhuliuk there. It's from the previous time. Another, another trick how to find, you know, how to do exact search globally. Um, uh- Okay … also you can, uh, find us at our website, which is, uh, Astraplus.io DS: Great, great. Thank you, Andriy. AS: Thank you, Dmytro. It was pleasure talking to you. Have a nice day. DS: Special thanks to all listeners who made it so far, and if you liked this episode and you would like to get more insights on international expansion, please subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss the next episode.