Translating Experience: Clarity from Leadership in the People Industry with Christy Honeycutt (2/2)

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Welcome to the Nerd Journey Podcast. Our goal is to help you, the technology professional, accelerate your career progression, increase your job satisfaction, and be more effective in your existing role.

Speaker C: We want to bring listeners like you the career advice we wish we'd been given earlier in our careers.

Speaker B: I'm John White, uh, journeyman on Twitter, sharing co host duties with nick Cordyce at NetworkNerd.

Speaker C: We're two former IT operations guys who have moved on to pre sales roles with technology vendors. We have our opinions, but we also like to highlight the journeys of others and see what we can learn from them.

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Speaker C: Let's take a trip Episode 353 in M A Tough Job Market how do we help recruiters advocate for us? According to Kristy Honeycutt, a recruitment and talent acquisition veteran, it starts with being kind and translating your experience into something a recruiter can understand. And even more importantly, it takes practice that interview practice that we don't often do. If you missed part one of our discussion with Christine episode 352, we talked about the concept of go to market and how Christy has used this throughout her career in different roles to stand out and do her work with excellence. We heard the story of how Christy became a recruiter and she shared some insight about the recruitment process that we might not know from the standpoint of being a job candidate. This week, in part two of our discussion, there is a common through line. You're going to hear Christy translate her experience as a leader in the people industry and we're going to pick out some of those lessons learned along the way. But she's modeling it for us through this entire conversation M you'll hear more details on recruitment process outsourcing and a perspective on what it was like to lead teams of recruiters and talent acquisition professionals. Christy talks about the difference between job hugging and job abandonment. We'll look at the context of the current job market and ways to stand out. And then Christy shares with us the results of an exercise in gaining clarity and the reasons she decided not to pursue a role in the C Suite. So what's next for Christy? Let's get you to part two of, uh, our discussion so you can find out. If I am a recruitment process outsourcer. Are, uh, there instances where I take on more of the End to end process than others. Or is it more of a one size fits all for each company?

Speaker A: It's not a one size fits all. And so most RPO organizations will have the following offers, right? So they'll have executive search, usually, which is like a single search. Or they'll have um, a full RPO, which means that they're usually hiring over 500 people or more a year. And there's a mix of skills. Let's say it's 70% salary and 30% hourly, something like that. If it's more of a talent acquisition thing, it's usually end to end. But again, it depends on the client. If the client says, I want you to take everything, then you're taking everything from a traction to they accepted the offer and we're going to TM over to your HR team for onboarding. Or they might say, no, we just want you to submit, uh, them. And then when we select we want to do the offer. If a company wants it a certain way, they can stop it at a certain point. There's different price points, I'm sure, but most RPOs, full RPOs is attraction to offer accepted and then it tees over to the HR team.

Speaker B: I've worked at organizations where it looked like the vast majority of uh, recruiters or talent acquisition were actually contractors. Like they had like a special contractor tag in, you know, whatever org chart there was. In your experience, does that mean that they are contracting directly with the organization or do you think that's through an rpo?

Speaker A: Uh, it could be either actually. So when I ran RPO before, why we were so successful is the client was willing and uh, encouraged us to brand as them. So oftentimes you could be working for an RPO with a certain name, but your LinkedIn would say the client's name. Like for instance, General Motors. I am a senior recruiter at General Motors, so you might not ever know. There are ways to kind of look and tell on someone's LinkedIn. You can kind of see sometimes they'll say, uh, you know, recruiting on General Mills or General Motors behalf or something like that. When I saw it work really well, they just posed as that. Now when you've got a contractor, so it could be that situation where they aren't internal to General, General Motors, but they have a General Motors email. Because when RPOs do that, they take on the look, the feel, your, your pitch, your culture. It's important for them to understand what's the culture, what's the mission and vision and goals, what's the benefits. They need to understand that because they're going out to attract these people to apply and then they have to sell them as to why they should even interview with them, why they should even consider. There's a lot when you think about recruitment and talent acquisition, regardless, it's a lot of marketing because you've got a really cool position and you've got to find the perfect fit. So that could be posting on jobs, it could be putting on LinkedIn saying, hey, I've got a position. And I feel really bad for recruiters and talent acquisition professionals right now because all the resumes are looking the same because everybody's using AI. What people think is helping set them apart is actually making them look more similar. So now you've got, um, recruiters and talent acquisition. They don't know if these are fake resumes, they don't know if they're real. And they're getting on the call with these people and finding out they are fake. They don't have any of this requirement. And I'll tell you a secret. When you're learning recruitment, specifically higher levels, let's think executive levels, right? They'll always tell you, especially tech, like, let's say it's a really senior tech role and tech is hard to wrap your head around. It changes every minute, right? It's always evolving. So they'd say, okay, we want you to go look for these people, but find the C players. Practice on the C players. Practice interviewing the C players and ask them questions. You're going to start to understand the nuances and the terminology and all the things. So then when you go for the A players that you actually want to hire, you're going to have more credibility with them. But it is a training. It's part of the training. And what, uh, I would encourage is if you are a C player, you're not going to know it. Just be kind and know that the person you're talking to has never held a technical role. Probably most likely, 99% probably never held a technical role and might not understand half the stuff that you guys do. The acronyms aren't going to be the same. Just be gracious with them because the more you can help them translate your experience, the better you're going to be positioned for them to get you over the line. And look, they don't want to talk to 10 people to get one hire. They want to talk to three people to get a hire. So the more patient candidates can be. And remember that the TA and HR recruiters Whatever you want to call them, there's a pretty good chance that they want to help you and that they're doing the job because they like people. And I think they get a bad rap. They will go and pick out and interview three people or whatever the slate is. Slates are usually three to five individuals for any given job. So if you look at all of, if you go onto LinkedIn and you apply for, for a job Today, you'll see 900 people applied. How in the heck is recruitment TA supposed to get through that? Well, they're getting through it with AI. Well, also, candidates are making it worse. It's like the quick apply button. It's just like that. They're making it worse. So the biggest thing I can tell you is be your own person. Be your authentic person. Have your stories of how you've shown up and shown out. Like, have I tell everybody for every job that you've worked at, you need to have three wins. Like, okay, I worked at this job, what did I do? Well, I increased revenue by X. I created a new program that saved the company, you know, Y. I improved our engagement scores. But whatever. Figure out what your three top things that you accomplished at each role and have that and be ready to speak to it. And then, you know, ask questions, interview them too. Make sure it's a fit for you. Make sure it's a culture fit for you. We've heard of the great resignation. We've heard of people quiet quitting. Look, guys, they're behaviors. They're behaviors that get repeated over time. Right now where we are is we're in this fearful stage where people, it's, it's called. What are they calling it? Uh, the new term is job hugging. Oh yeah, we're job hugging. No one's hugging a job. People are trying to, trying to stay employed in the market. That's all it is. And so the challenge is, if you feel like I'm staying here because I have a job, but I am not happy, then you better figure out how to make yourself happy really quickly because that job's not going to be there. I'm speaking from experience. It's not always going to be there. Just figure out what you're passionate about. And if you're in a job and you're hugging, which is smart, by the way, self preservation. I'm not going to hate on you. I don't think anybody else is paying your bills. Right? Do what you got to do, but identify that in yourself. Identify that in your company that it's not A fit and determine when you need to leave and start getting your exit plan. Because we are not living in the time of our parents. We're not working at the same place for 30 years. And retiring companies are not our families. They're going to let us go. It's going to come down to the business. We see the memes from like the millennials that are very woke, but it is what it is. And so that's what I would advise anybody looking for a job, just to keep those things in mind, keep the human element very forward focused on both sides. I mentor and coach a lot of my former employees and I had a very senior recruiter call me and say I had a, uh, candidate start asking me questions like, why was this a good position and why should I consider it? What's. Why do I love working at X, Y, Z? And I let her vent as she was venting and then she goes, well, I'm asking your guidance. I said, I'm going to give you my opinion as your friend, but I'm not going to give you any guidance as a coach. And she goes, okay. I said, you're burned out. And I said, the person I knew three years ago would be calling me going, oh my gosh. I have this candidate that asked me how I feel about the company. They really care, like they really care about the job. I said, now fast forward three years later and you're complaining that a candidate is asking about why this is a good opportunity for them. I go, that's a good candidate. She goes, you're right, I'm burned out. I said, you're a hundred percent burned out because you're bored and you need something else and you're curious. So high performers are always like open minded and curious. But if you fall in that category, figure it out sooner than later so you're not burning yourself out because then you're in a very dangerous situation. So that job hugging is going to be, it's going to be job abandonment. You're going to get the boot. It's not going to be the other way around. So it's just kind of level setting

Speaker C: with your, your psyche so much. You said right there, uh, I want to go back to the recruiters practicing on candidates.

Speaker A: Oh goodness, here we go.

Speaker C: Just, just for a second. The way I look at this is everybody needs at bats. And I like what you said about be kind to the recruiters. Uh, you may never know that you are part of their at bats, but it's also an at bat for the candidate to have that conversation. A little batting practice on the interview process that we just don't do regularly. Right.

Speaker A: I love that you said that the way that you said it, because it resonates so much. But, uh, you're right, though, because it is practice on both sides. And if you are kind, you'll get there. And I'll tell you, I've had to have more than a few conversations with recruiters that were. Had bleeding hearts and just did not understand why a manager did not want a candidate. And I had to say, I don't care. Stop submitting Bob. Nobody wants Bob. Bob has been rejected. But I like Bob. Bob sent me a Starbucks gift card. And, you know, Bob said, thank you. And I'm like, I love that. Go have a beer with Bob. But Bob's not a fit here. He's been rejected, and here's why he's been rejected. He's not a fit. So with these recruiters, I promise you that they are. They are going to bat for you. You will not know about the stuff that they're. They're doing behind the scenes. And look, some recruiters are just. They shouldn't be in their roles. Uh, I'm not proud of this, but I was called my nickname back in the day at Big Blue was called the Kraken. Yeah, I got, like, whiskey bottles with the Kraken on it. It was like a whole thing. It was funny. My team told me this once, and I had a really, really tight team, and everybody on that team is now leading their leaders with NTA for, uh, very. But someone said, oh, I would never work for Honeycutt. And they said, why do you say that? Well, she makes you work. And they. And they said, well, yeah, you would never work for Honeycutt because you wouldn't make it over here. As I progressed in my career, if there was somebody that wasn't performing, Honeycutt got her or him. And the reason was, is they knew I would manage them out. But I would always say, hold on a second. They get a chance to redeem themselves. I always gave them a chance to redeem themselves because I knew that I was hearing one storyline. And so maybe they had a manager that didn't invest in them. Who knows what the situation was. Right. But they came in with an expectation of I, uh, needed to manage them out. I said, if they don't recover, I will manage them out. So I got the nickname the Kraken. But the team would tell me, like, that people would say that about me. And I go, oh, my. Gosh you had to defend me. They go, you're an awesome boss to work for. You just know you gotta do your work. You don't do your work, you don't work here. And I go, well, yeah, that's what you get paid to do is your work. But I didn't micromanage. I. We had a really tight, tight team. But it was hard to be on my team because they were all high performers. And whenever we had interviews, we would do panel interviews. It was important for a culture fit, which I would never put anybody through that. But for that particular job and role that we did, that had to happen. I mean. Cause we would have to launch global clients in 30, 60 days. So my team had to be kind of like special ops, because we managed the globe. And it was very. It was high pressure. So there are really crappy recruiters. And had they landed on my team, they probably did get fired. You know, I remember I took over an RPO and I. They brought me in to clean it up. And I came in and I met with all the recruiters a couple of weeks, kind of asking them, you know, what do you. What do you think is working well? What are your KPIs? What are you putting out? And I had this one recruiter, I said, you know, how many submissions are you doing a week? So if you think about a job requisition, a job opening, they should have three to five candidates submitted for each job. Well, a, uh, manager's gonna expect to have that within two weeks of opening a job. Cause you have usually a week to kind of put it out there, source a little bit. And that next week you really need to be hitting the ground to get that filled. And she very proudly told me that she submitted two people a week and was extremely proud of this. And I said, wow. I said, well, the SLAs are 3 to 5 per wreck. You're carrying 15 wrecks, so you're severely under the mark. What can we do to help correct this? That's what I mean by. There are some people that are in roles that they shouldn't be, that take advantage and kind of sit back and say, oh, I'm corporate, or oh, I'm in house, or I'm this or I'm that. And I have seen a lot of. And this is the ugly side of TA and recruitment. But there tends to be egos when you, um, as you rise, you might be, get a little bit of an ego, because now you're the head of this department and people don't get in and pass, go without your approval and sign off. That's a very, very dangerous TA and recruitment leader you need to watch out for. But that's the 1%, 99% are really, really good. They're going to do everything they can to help, you know, the community and the people that are trying to get jobs.

Speaker B: That's, uh, such an interesting perspective because I think one would expect that it would be difficult in talent acquisition to really coast off of a reputation because you have the recs, the job requisitions in front of you and you're working those. So it should be immediately obvious who's doing well and who isn't and not be able to coast on a reputation.

Speaker A: It should be, yes. But then that goes back to leadership. Maybe they didn't have a Kraken air quotes as a leader. Right. That was actually holding them accountable. Because if you think about, if we go back to managers and leaders, most of them aren't trained and a lot of them want to be liked.

Speaker B: That's a good point. That's a good point.

Speaker A: Uh, look, I'm a Marine's daughter, so that means that the mission gets done no matter what, with the least amount of casualties. That's the mission. And so I've got to keep everybody rowing forward and keep everybody motivated and doing the same thing. So one person is weighing the team down and risking their life. Then we've got to cut that limb off, right? We've got to move forward. We've got to get a stronger, a stronger limb or stronger tire. Whatever analogy you want to put to it, you're only as strong as your weakest link. So if your weakest link is not holding themselves accountable and respecting their team, then they're putting everybody else's jobs at risk. And unfortunately, there are bad actors in every industry and every role in every organization. And we've all seen them. They're like cancer and they really hurt retention, they hurt elevation. They're usually the ones that are taking credit, taking too long at lunch, whatever the case may be. We've all seen them and I think the difference is leadership. They want to be liked or they're either fearful of landing in HR's office, having a complaint filed against them. And I'll be the first to tell you, I've had complaints filed against me, but it came down to somebody not doing their job and complaining that I held them accountable for not doing their job. It all comes down to behaviors. It's weird to be in the people industry for so long because it's just behaviors, right? It's just humans. And I think we have to humanize it. But if you think about before somebody shows up for work, you have no idea what is going on in their world at all. You don't know if their spouse has cancer. You don't know if their spouse just lost their job or their dog died or they got in a car accident. You have no idea. And so I think we have to. I know we have to meet each other with a little bit more grace. And those of you out there, if you have a job, you're lucky enough to have a job and be employed, do the job, because there's a lot of people out there that don't that will come in and do a better job than you, honor yourself, honor your employer, and show up. Uh, but unfortunately, there's bad actors.

Speaker B: You said another interesting thing, which was the ideal cycle for hiring, which was leave the requisition open for a week to gather the pool, and then use the second week to kind of get down to your slate probably early in the week. I've heard this idea that, like, hey, you want to be in that first week if you're applying, but I've never really thought about why that would be. I suppose if a. If a job is hard to fill, then it, you know, it might be open longer.

Speaker A: It varies, right? For, um, position and requirements, location, salary. I mean, you'll get managers that'll say, uh, I want this title and I only want to pay $50,000. You're like, well, okay, there's two of them in the world, and they make $700,000 a piece. So recruiters in TA, they have to have that conversation all the time with managers to level set. It's no different than any of us going, I want that brand new Porsche, the Kelly green Porsche Targa 911, and it's 200,000, but I only want to pay 50,000. That's okay, right? That's the conversation that they have to have all the time. And yes, recruiters and TA FA folk, you're not crazy. Everyone has this conversation because we all have desires outside of our budget. It comes down to that. Now, that's my preferred method, because you stay more compliant that way. First one in, first one out, that kind of thing. But if you think about a client and them opening a position, they probably needed that position 30 days before it was ever approved. So there's already a ticking time on the recruiter whether that's fair or not, because in the. The manager's uh, mind, that role opened the second they thought they needed it. Not when they requested it, not when it got approved, but when they realized in their br, I need this position filled. That's when the clock starts for them. So it's an unfair, um, disadvantage for a recruiter. So that's why I always say best in class would be post it for a week, see who comes in, start recruiting, you know, having conversations week two, so you could have interview scheduled week three and hopefully an offer out on week four.

Speaker C: Let's take that in the backdrop of the current job market we're seeing right now and all the layoffs, organizational flattening. Because you said something else earlier about the recruiters and sourcing folks needing to sell candidates on this role. I'm just wondering how much of that they actually have to do with. From what we're hearing, job openings that are getting hundreds upon hundreds of applicants that need to be sorted through.

Speaker A: Tech is like recruitment, like marketing is always the first to go. It's always the first to go, right until they realize, oh, it went and oh, we need it. So it's a boomerang effect with those industries. Always has been, always will be. I was with a tech startup firm and was at HR Tech with a young lady that didn't have a job. Now she's smart enough to know I'm at HR Tech. I just got let go from a tech organization and there's a lot of people here I can network with. And she walked from booth to booth. She utilized me to, um, introduce. Knew a lot of CEOs. I introduced em right away. I endorsed her. They walked her right over to their team. She walked away from that conference three days with five interviews in the job market Today with recruiters not able to tell if it's an AI resume or not, with them being overloaded with a vast amount of resumes, I mean, it's crazy. The best thing that anybody can do is make sure that your personal brand is on point. Make sure that whatever it is that you're doing, you're sharing, you're engaging your community and that you're seen doing it. Myself, I was most recently with the same tech startup who the founders had a split in what they wanted to do and where they were going. And they did away with the U.S. division, which is fine. Wish them the best of luck. Don't regret anything. Learned a lot, made a lot of really great contacts. But the difference is I have been working on my brand. I have been speaking, I have been talking. I've Been sharing, I've been doing podcasts. I did a lot of go to market stuff on behalf of my employer. I was the cheerleader. So the second that I'm walking around and people are asking me, oh, uh, where's your booth? Are you guys here? No, we're not. I'm actually a free agent now. Oh, wait, what? Oh, can I talk to you? I felt almost guilty because I know that a lot of my brothers and sisters within my field have been out of work for three to five years and, uh, in my opinion, probably better than I am, like really stellar individuals. And I got offered three C suite positions within three days of losing my, my role in the US and by the way, I turned them down. And I know that sounds crazy, but I've had that moment where I've realized that where I want to go and where I am are two different places. So if I put my energy in something, that's where, you know, if I put my focus on something, my energy is going to flow in that direction and I need to make sure that's the direction I want to go. Because I'm a Gen Xer, I'm aging. Do I want to go be C suite and kill myself for the next four years, or would I rather do something that's not as time constraint and follow the, the millennials and the Gen Zs on purpose in life and maybe try to make a go of it and kind of go from there? So I'm having these internal, these internal discussions, but the reason that gave me confidence is I'm three days without a job. I've got several job offers and I realized they don't care how I work with them, they just want to work with me. So why don't I go out on my own but realizing that I'm in a very gifted place, but it's because I put the work in. It's because I gave back to my community. It's because I do inside the C suite, because I want to elevate voices that aren't heard and give insight to the market and give a little bit of peace. It's because of the extra volunteer and coaching and mentors that I've done over the years. It's because of the partnerships that I extended. It's all the goodwill that I've done. My community paid it back tenfold. So set yourself apart in whatever it is that you're doing. You guys, oh my gosh, Nick and John, you're doing like such a great thing, like any tech company, any company, period. Would be lucky to get you because you're showing empathy, you're showing your career and you're giving back and you're educating yourself every single day that you do this. So that's a differentiator. And where we are today is you have to have a differentiator or you're going to be sitting on the shelf for five years.

Speaker C: Such a great point. And thank you very much for the kind words. Uh, I had a thought while you were saying that, Christy. You mentioned before that when it comes to the C suite, it's lonely up there. You do inside the C suite and have all these conversations with executives. So did that context and all the context from the recruitment talent acquisition that you've done factor in as another piece of the decision to not go after those C suite roles that you were offered? More so than does it fit my lifestyle and you know, is it hard work?

Speaker A: So I don't do anything halfway. Right. And I know me. And if I was to take a C suite role, I'm going to be working 80 hours a week. I'm going to be traveling nonstop where I am in life with my family. We are looking to slow down between my partner and I, we have, I, um, have a special needs child. He has a special needs child between us. We have five kids, you know, and a grandbaby on his side. I'm, uh, not that old. We want to slow down and we want to travel and we want to spend more time and do more purposeful things, which I think happens as you get older. You kind of start to realize all these things you've been chasing aren't really worth as much as you thought they were. It's more the peace and the love and just your family. I gotta tell you, it's very, very tempting. And I think I told you guys this. There's a story about Matthew McConaughey wanting to get away from rom coms. And he told his agent and no more rom coms. And they kept coming right hand over fist, hand over fist. And it just, it kept coming. It kept coming. So Matthew McConaughey said no, no, no. But then the price started increasing, the value got higher and he's like, oh, that, that script looks, that script looks pretty good. I've had those moments. Ah, uh, that looks pretty good. That's, Ooh, that salary and equity. Hmm. Mhm. They're launching in Europe. I've never been to Europe. That sounds like a blast. Yeah, it crossed my mind, but it does not align with my long term goal. So like with Matthew McConaughey, it didn't align with his long term goal. He wanted to do more serious acting. He wanted to stretch himself. He's at the. The very top of his career at this point, and I dare you to say his name and not see his face or hear his voice and not see his face, because he's just. He's such a vibe, right? So for me, I realized I have a choice. You know, the universe has brought a lot of stuff to me. Is it because it's meant for me or is it noise? Is it testing me? Because I really need to stay true to where I. Where I want to go. What's the situation? And what I've determined is it's awesome that I have this opportunity. And that's a factor to the fact that I've given to my community for so long, and I've shown up and I've made myself visible and I found my voice, which is a great thing to do. And I hope everybody finds their voice, but it's not where I want to be. As far as talking to the C Suite, several of them are the ones that offered me the job, but I also know, behind the scenes, kind of like what they love and what they. They struggled and where they were. Yeah, John, uh, you're looking at me funny. Some people that have actually been on my show and have spent time with me have offered me positions when they found out, it was the craziest thing. Cause I'm walking around with this young lady, and I'm like, hey, let me introduce you. You know, she's looking for a job, and the CEO looks at her and goes, oh, wait, Christy, what about you? And, like, cut her off mid sentence. And I was like, oh, my gosh. And he didn't. And he goes, I'm so sorry. No, no, we'll still talk about you. But, Christy, what are you. Cause he just filled a role that I would have been perfect for. I was like, thank you for thinking of me. I'm good. Uh, you know, and we're gonna have a conversation. But the conversation isn't me working for him. The conversation is me consulting for them. I'm really good at certain things, which you guys have broken down and helped me understand. I repeatedly get asked for those things, and those are the things I like to do. So why not go do that? Why not go be a consultant and do the things that I really like to do for people and not do the things I don't like to do, like P and L and payroll and Meetings and meetings and meetings. Like uh, I don't need to do that. I can just go do the fun stuff that they need my specialization in. So for me it's more how can I do things that sing to my heart and or stay true to the decision I've made with my partner to open up bandwidth for our family. Right. A little bit more balance to bring it back to your question. Most of the C suite I talk to love what they do, but the one thing that they do say is it's lonely. And they also say that they've had to learn to put themselves first because they uh, they don't survive otherwise. Meaning that they have to make sure that they literally put themselves first. They get up and go to the gym, they eat appropriately and then they put their family second and then they put their job. Because when they first started it, I hear this more than not when they first start their organization, it's business, business, business. Their health fails, their family fails. So the ones that actually made it and recovered through that little spike and actually make it out on the other side very quickly flip to take care of my body, my temple, my soul, my family, then my business. It's a, it's a battle for them. So I don't want to go through that battle of although I'm uh, maybe starting my own firm, hopefully I'll slow roll it and not end up in that situation. So it's a double edged sword when

Speaker C: one decides to slow the pace a little bit. Let's just say it that way. Not necessarily not doing work, but doing more of the things you enjoy at a pace that fits what you want from life and work. Does reflecting on those three winds that we should have from each job help you see that? Oh yeah. I can still get my wins from doing this thing and it's okay for me to not run a sprint right now.

Speaker A: That is really good question. That's such a great question. Yes, it does it, it really, really does. I just thought about it as you were saying that.

Speaker C: And did you think about those as you were coming to this decision? That's probably the part that I should have said too. No.

Speaker A: And that's funny cause that's my coaching to every single person I talk to. As I was coming to this decision, I was interactively interviewing other CEOs. I'm a big believer in the universe and signs and God and Buddha and whatever you relate to higher source. I think we all come from the same place, love everybody and everything. But what I found interesting is that when you're looking for an answer. If you actually open your eyes, it's right there. It plays back to you. It plays back to you in conversations you have with people, especially if you've got a trusted person, friend or, um, spouse or, you know, family member. And my partner, and I do this all the time, is. I'll say, I know you don't need me to say this, and I'm not going to give you my advice. I'm going to be your mirror right now and reflect back what you said. Because you often say what you need and what you want and where you're at, but you don't comprehend it. But if you hear someone you love that you trust repeat it back to you, it's the. It's almost like it gives you permission to accept it. Does that make sense? And then you walking me through that, I'm sitting here going, that totally makes sense. Absolutely. Because in you, uh, know, I told my partner this, I said, I don't need a C suite title. I've had titles before. I don't need to go prove. Because there was part of me that was like, I could go do this, and then I could blow this up, and I could just prove that this strategy works. And, you know, I thought about it and I thought, that's the wrong reason to do something to prove somebody else wrong. I already know I can do it. I already. I've already done it. So why am I going to put myself through this same toxic cycle when I'm ready for something different? But it's scary. It's scary to go, I'm going to put myself out there. I think people are going to want to come to me for my expertise. I hope they do. I really hope they do. But it's scary to put yourself out there like that. But if you don't, you'll never know. So I'd rather try and fail and learn than regret and not know.

Speaker B: Absolutely. That makes a lot of sense to me, especially since just because something doesn't work doesn't you know it's not the end of the world. Right. You can always roll it back. And. And I guess on that note, Christie Honeycutt, it's. We're excited to see you ending your, um, how to Lose a guy in 10 days, your wedding planner phase, and starting your. Your interstellar, uh, true Detective Dallas Buyers Club face.

Speaker A: We are going to be fast friends because you just hit on all my faves.

Speaker B: Thanks so much for your time. It was an amazing conversation. We both learned so much.

Speaker A: Oh, you Guys were therapy for me, so I really appreciate it. Thank you.

Speaker C: And where can people find you if they want to follow up on this conversation?

Speaker A: Christie, my LinkedIn is great. I'm an open connector. Although, please don't be upset if I can't connect with you. You may have to follow me. LinkedIn has a really weird rule once you get over 30,000. Christy honeycutt.com. i have my own website, so please go there as, uh, Strategic Shift is hosted by People work. But you can find. Find me on YouTube, Spotify, and all the regular places. I'm also on TikTok. I'm leaning in. My kids are cringing, but I'm leaning in. So, yeah, come find me. Let's play. Let's be friends. Thank you guys for all you're doing for the community too. It really, I can tell you from, like, the TA and HR side of the house, we appreciate people like you.

Speaker B: Right back at you. We appreciate you too.

Speaker A: All right, thanks, guys.

Speaker B: Foreign.

Speaker C: So thinking back on that conversation, do you have three wins from each job from at least the past several jobs you've had? And do you know the stories that go along with those? This speaks to a number of prerequisites that we have to do before we can speak effectively in an interview. First, we have to be documenting our accomplishments, documenting what those three wins are. Hopefully you're documenting your work regularly, but let this be a reminder to all of us. And then actually picking out what those three wins are. What are the three biggest wins out of your accomplishments that you can highlight that would help you get that next job that you want? Maybe you have several to choose from, and you just filter it down to the three wins that are most relevant to a specific job that you want to go after. But we should take the time to write down a story around the specific wins. We're targeting something that you could share in an interview. Think of it like a resume bullet and more. Right. Something you could expand on. And this is all part of drafting that narrative that Jason Belk told us about in episode 284. Not only should we be writing and rewriting it, we should be saying it, iterating on it, changing it, rewording it, and saying it again. We can certainly do this in job interviews. Maybe you can do a form of this at, uh, networking groups. When you're talking to other people about what they're doing at work. Maybe you can share one of your wins in a way that would help someone else understand what you do, why you did it, what your Motivations were, but maybe that could be a form of practice as well. And I do like looking at conversations with recruiters as an opportunity to practice, an opportunity to practice telling those stories, sharing those wins. And if you continue forward in the process, maybe you get to share more details on those wins with the hiring manager or some kind of member of the team that you're going to be on. In that discussion, we heard Christy tell us about encountering a job loss situation like many in our industry are experiencing right now. One of the things that she had already done before that happened was making sure that she had given to her network. Certainly she's been hosting a couple of different podcasts, she's been doing speaking engagements, she's been writing articles. And we would call that showing up for our community in a visible way. You may be doing this in a way that's not as visible. Maybe you're mentoring a lot of other people that you work with or that you used to work with, but if you haven't documented that and put it on LinkedIn somewhere. So I would say even if the work that you're doing is something that's a little bit less visible, as long as it's making a difference for other people, that could end up making a difference for you when you really need it. Hopefully we all want to help others do better in our industry, find that next opportunity or find an opportunity if they are impacted by a job loss. So make sure you're putting in that work. I love the fact that Christy shared the exercise in finding clarity on exactly what she wanted to do. She knew that taking a C suite role would not match the pace and the lifestyle that would suit the way she and her partner want their family life to be right now. It wasn't just about personal ambition. It was also about balance on the family. So many factors go into making a decision for what we want to do next, especially when opportunities are presented to us that we might not have expected. I, uh, hope you enjoyed this discussion with Christie, and then it provided a source of encouragement to you. If you are someone out there looking for a role, remember to check out Christie's podcasts, Inside the C Suite and Strategic Shift, and you can certainly get some insight on what executives are thinking about and how they communicate by listening to those shows. Good luck out there and we'll see you in two weeks.

Speaker B: Farewell, listeners. Tune in next time as the journey continues. I'm John White at B Journeyman for Nick Korty networknerd signing off.

Speaker C: Adios,

Speaker A: Sam.