Episode 193: Becoming Iconic with Jen Leigh: The Founder Building a Media Brand for Ambitious Women

Speaker A: So welcome to dawn of a New Era. And today we have Jen Lee, who has built Becoming Iconic into a hybrid mentorship and creative agency. Uh, she launched Iconic magazine after Crazy Story losing her social media, which I think is everyone's worst nightmare. And this happened in 2022. She's helped women build brands and, um, businesses producing more than 100 million in client sales. And we're going to explore a little bit about Jen's journey and how it all started. So, Jen, you've spent more than 20 years building businesses, brands and legacies. How has your definition of success changed as you've evolved as a woman, mother and CEO?

Speaker B: Great m question and I'm so grateful to be here. By the way. Dawn, thank you for having me. And hello to all of your beautiful community members listening in. I would say when I first started, I was very driven by money. I was a stay at home mom. I had left a thriving marketing career. I loved, actually my career and job. Uh, however, my husband at the time, he got relocated. And in that relocation, it just made sense for me to stay home and raise our babies. And so that was a really beautiful decision. But I lost myself completely in that decision. And the biggest piece of that was not knowing who I was and also feeling completely dependent upon someone, which was an uncomfortable feeling for me as a woman and also as a human being. And so it was very driven by money at first. But I have to say this because I think this is a funny part of the story. My big audacious goal was to make $2,000 a month. And I gave myself five years to do it. I was like, if in five years from now I can make $2,000 a month as a stay at home mom doing something on the side here, I think I've won the lottery. So not a huge vision for myself, but very drawn into that independence, wanting to feel like I could make my own decisions, go buy myself something without exploring. And he wasn't that person. I just felt that way in the scenario. And then it became a lot around money. Because when I started that way, then the chase of that dollar amount and increasing that dollar amount monthly really became a part of the culture of how I was building and what drove me. And I think all of us can see online, we're seeing the million dollar business. Million dollar business. Well, back when I started 20 years ago, it was the 100k business, the six figure business. That was, you know, how we would now look at the million. And so I was just so fixated on that that it didn't it took a lot of, um, joy in the meantime as I was growing. It's one of those things, in hindsight, I wish I had done a little differently, but it did drive success. How I look at success now and what I know for sure, my biggest message to all founders is who you become on this journey is the greatest reward of all. I don't know any other path, career, uh, any other choice I could have made that would demand as much personal growth, that would show me my capacity, my resilience, my strength, my stick to itness, the way entrepreneurship has. And so for me now, I pursue who I am becoming, because what I know now is the money follows that version of me. It actually becomes inevitable.

Speaker A: Yeah, I love that, and I think it's true. I mean, there is no other role in life that matches what we put ourselves through as a founder, and we're doing it by choice. And I think there is for an entrepreneur. There's an adrenaline rush when we get into certain things. And I think when I look back at my, uh, most epic fails, they have been my biggest growth trajectory. So I never regret. I just accept. And as you say, that personal development, that growth that comes with it, is huge. And I think back to 20 years ago, like, I started my first business at 21, and I'm like 47 now, and I'm almost unrecognizable. You know, I can still see some of the, the traits, but, uh, the whole identity shift around money. And again, my, um, first money goal, and I remember this was like, if I can just get to a certain amount per day. So my first goal was to get to a 10k month. And then I was like, right, okay, I'll be absolutely delighted by that point. And then you get to 20 and then 100k and. And it just evolves from there. Now, obviously, I dropped a bit of a bombshell when I introduced you about losing your entire social media. And I want to, like, touch back on that. So obviously it's an epic disaster, but it became a catalyst for launching Iconic magazine, I guess. And what has the experience taught you? Um, you know, in terms of resilience and reinvention and building something like, you know, truly that you own and carved

Speaker B: out from it three things that are very crystal clear from that very difficult scenario. So I'm, I'm basically a single mom and the solo income earner. I have four children. And so there's a level of responsibility and what I've built because it is what feeds my kids and puts a Roof over our heads. And so when I lost my social media, I. Anybody could then imagine how that felt because I was petrified that my business was going to crumble. I put so much emphasis on meta. So Facebook and Instagram at that point, Facebook, you know, in the early years and then moving over to Instagram. And so when that was taken from me, it felt like the biggest betrayal. I was just in tears. And I did curl up in a ball for two days and just think, it's over. Like, I don't know how to even reach people anymore. And I had a God moment where I realized I named my brand Becoming Iconic. And, uh, if this is what defines that brand, that it was taken down. How dare I feel like a bit of a hypocrite? Because the whole message of becoming iconic is that pursuit of your dreams and the version of yourself. It's wanting every day to be better and better and better. And so I thought, well, there's a lot of people who didn't see the rising of Becoming Iconic. They walked in on chapter 12, they didn't see chapter one. And so I thought, maybe this is actually where I can define the brand. So that was the first lesson was, you know, a personal brand is personal. And so, uh, when you are leading something as a brand, you have to rise to the occasion. And that's not just rise to the occasion when things are great. That's also rising to the occasion when you have challenge difficulties, dips, um, maybe some poor pr, whatever that is. I mean, people are watching. And so I thought, I will be the example of what this brand means. And that was really empowering for me and really empowering for the community. The second lesson was never, uh, to put all your eggs in one basket. So what I hadn't realized is I had really not been paying a lot of attention to, um, email marketing, but I definitely had that as a part of my marketing channel. And my podcast was very, very popular. And so because I had these different channels, what I didn't know until I knew is I had had built business insurance. So one dropped a big component. The largest component dropped. But I still had email and I still had my podcast, and I had community that were really willing to support and help me spread the word and get back on my feet. And so that's the other lesson is, please, please, please make sure you're leveraging different channels so that you can talk to people where they want to play. Because another interesting point in this is I assumed if I sent an email saying, come follow me on the new Instagram, they would have all come over and been like, we're here. That didn't happen. Same with the podcast. Could you all just, like, share? Would you be willing come over? That didn't happen. There was a trickle, but it wasn't like the entire community came over. And that lesson taught me that people desire to hang out with you where they desire to hang out with you. Not everybody wants to be on Instagram. Not everybody wants to listen to a podcast. So the best thing you can do for your brand is to actually build those channels so that if one drops, the other holds the space. And then the third thing was having women around me. It really healed my sisterhood wounds because there were some beautiful industry leaders and peers who really supported me where I didn't expect that and just were on their own socials going, oh, my gosh, you should have seen, like, this happened. You go follow her. And so some communication and discussions are happening because they were all like, this is my worst nightmare. How are you dealing with this? Oh, my gosh. So suddenly I was booked on podcasts left, right, and center. I think I did over 100 podcasts in, like, uh, a couple of months. I, uh, was just like, I was going viral because everybody was so curious because this is their worst nightmare. But what it led to was great questions. And somebody said to me, well, in some ways, you have a clean slate. People are not going to see now the growth, it's gone. What is something you've never done that you've always wanted to do? And it was the perfect question at the perfect time. And I right away, off my lips came the magazine, because I had always wanted to have my own lifestyle magazine. And so ignorance on fire and nothing to lose. I started it. And here we are.

Speaker A: I know, I love this. And the crazy thing is, is earlier this year, um, LinkedIn has always been, like, my number one social media. And it, uh, took me ages to kind of move across onto Instagram. I've literally only been on Instagram, like, maybe two, three years, and I woke up to my inst. My. To LinkedIn being hacked. And I was just like, oh, my goodness. My initial feeling was absolute, like, oh, my goodness, what I'm gonna do? And then I just kind of went into, okay, can I get it back? And all my team were going crazy. But I was really calm about it. And I think because I'd seen it happen to so many people, been really kind of tight on changing passwords, doing all these things, I just thought, I can't do Anything. And maybe this is just the thing that's going to happen. Um, it's definitely impacted my uh, reach and you know, getting posts out there and visibility, but I got it back through Sales Navigator. Um, but the damage was already done and the support was great. But I did definitely feel an impact and it's made me even more interested in exploring other channels. So things like substack. I only just started a sub stack I was just talking about on another podcast. And um, we're like three weeks in, 11,000 subscribers. And you're so right with the leverage. And I think with 2026 we're seeing more people wanting different ways of communicating in a more personal way. And we're seeing these like, breakoffs of like sub niches where they're more specific about different content. Um, with obviously the magazine, I want to kind of explore a little bit about that because, um, obviously we met at an event, uh, not long ago and we actually sat next to each other in a, um, for, for however long and didn't even know the same event because we were just kind of sitting there in our own little worlds. So with the magazine, um, I attended uh, a panel event that you did at, ah, the Entrepreneur for Founders Weekend. And you describe iconic magazine as Vogue meets Forbes, which I love. And when you are deciding like, whose stories deserve to actually be featured, what makes a woman or a brand genuinely iconic rather than just like simply visible.

Speaker B: That's a great question. I love this question. Nobody's ever asked me this before, so thank you, that's thoughtful and I appreciate things like that. Well, what's interesting is I believe every woman deserves a platform and a microphone. I don't think one is more deserving than the other. So that's end of sentence. I am for women standing into their power. I'm for women sharing their stories. I'm for women being seen, being heard, being felt. These are things I stand for and why I've done what I've done for so long. However. There's a however part. You know, the magazine has grown into a massive visibility opportunity and press opportunity for women that come in. And what I've learned, there's a couple things, is we want to, we ask for visibility. A lot of people are looking for that right now. A lot of people are talking about it. Visibility, visibility. It's all about visibility. But uh, what I've noticed thing is there's a lot of brands that are not prepared for the visibility. They want it, but then when they get it, it doesn't mean anything. It's not converting, it's not changing the business. It's simply just a vanity metric, which can be addictive. Because we think that validates us. We think that that means we're doing something right. And in certain ways it does. But ultimately, wouldn't we rather have our sales grow, our customer base grow, the community grow? And so what does it really matter? Right? It's like, yeah. So for me, I think to myself, what are we actually chasing? So when I think of the magazine now, one of the things we do with women is we rarely say no. Um, if someone comes to me and wants to be seen, I'm not going to ever stand in her way. But sometimes we will delay. And we'll delay because I'll say to her, there's some work in your brand that's going to be required for this to really mean something for you. Where's the funnel? Where are you driving traffic? How are you welcoming people, whether it be on socials or, you know, on your website? Like, I want to make sure, sure you're prepared for the visibility, because we've now reached over a million in sales for women in less than a year. Um, for women who have come into the magazine because I help her raise her standards a little bit more for what she's actually seeking. Uh, so that's the first thing is, again, I'm never going to stand in her way if she comes and said, absolutely, but let's put you in this issue so you have enough time to prepare the business. And the other thing that makes somebody iconic, a woman iconic, I believe it's her posture. I see it, I feel it. It's not led by performance. It's not led by ego, and it's not led by this over exaggerated humility either. I talk about it in. The term that I use is called peaceful confidence. And so it's a great visual of what I mean. When you walk into a room, there are certain women who will walk in and they're very loud. They want the world to know they've arrived. And I don't judge that. But I do look at that and think, why do you need the attention and the validation? So for me, that doesn't scream confidence, but again, it's not through the lens of judgment. It's just an observation. And then I look at other women and my mom always pops up on my mind for this because this is definitely her to a T, who's like, I'll sit at the back of the room at this seat nobody else wants, because you know, um, everybody else can have the good seats and that, uh, I don't need to be noticed, I don't need to be a part of the conversation. And that's not confidence either, it's kindness, I suppose, but take up space. So what I define peaceful confidence as is that woman that walks in the room and she doesn't declare and she doesn't take the backseat, but she walks in and her sheer energy and posture turn heads. People ask, who's that? Because she's got a smile on her face, she makes eye contact, she feels equal. Not better than, not less than, but equal. Knowing everybody has something to offer her and she has something to offer everybody else. And so that's really what I look for as well. Because if we're coming into the magazine simply again for vanity, or to say, I've been in this magazine, it's the wrong lens and it's not going to convert or feel the way you're anticipating. And so I watch for those things because integrity is really the core essence of our brand.

Speaker A: I love this because there's, there's the integrity piece, but the congruency piece and there's, it's rare actually to find somebody who is so passionate about bringing those things together. Because I know with founders that, you know, people are posting all of the time. Social media, it does become this addiction. It's a whole vanity piece that, that starts and ego often gets in the way. And having that powerful presence, almost like that magnetism that uh, when you go into a room, I've always said, like, I am not the loudest person in a room. I would probably be one of the quieter. But one thing that always happens is, is that people come to me. And I think that I'm very aware of my surroundings and I'm very aware of how I enter a room and how I want to be perceived. So when you talk about obviously helping women, I think the interesting thing here is, is what actually separates like a beautiful, full personal brand from one that creates this authority that attracts premium clients and produces these meaning commercial results. Because I see so many people investing in media and nothing's happening. They're appearing on podcasts, they're doing all of these different things, but there's actually no visible impact in scaling and growing the business.

Speaker B: Mhm. Yeah. And personal branding is literally my heart's desire for women. I mean, the magazine is definitely my media company, uh, is my passion. I love it. But if you were to break all of that down and get to the seed, it's women Building brands that last, building brands that are meaningful, building brands that, my gosh, we're putting so much effort, so much time, so much brain space and heart space into this. And so let's do it in a way that can actually build a reputation and can build the contribution and impact and can build legacy ultimately. Like, that's what we all desire as women. So a couple things pop up with that question and, uh, circling back to some of my answers already is making sure your brand is set up for success. I think we wait for the success before we do the unsexy work. Thinking, once I make more money, then I'll invest in systems automations, infrastructure, team, so on and so forth. And I was her. So I can name that because I was her. I was that martyr of like, I do it. And I'm a solopreneur now. I think to myself that it was nothing to brag about. And as a matter of fact, I think you should be a solopreneur for as as long, small of a fraction of time as humanly possible. Because as soon as you start to invite team and experts into your world where you can then draw your attention into the things that only you can do, that's when your business expands. So it's like this conversation nobody really wants to have. It's the stuff that nobody really wants to do. But if you do it and you lead well and you build this infrastructure no matter what you like, when I'm on a podcast, it converts. My podcast has been my number one revenue generating like we're talking tens of millions. And because I have a system where they listen to me there, they come over and I have all of these points of entry. There's soft invitations everywhere, and I'm not performing, I'm not sharing my stripe account and how much money I made last month, as a matter of fact, it's just not who I am and I won't do that. But I haven't had to. And I think we're looking at the, uh, online space and thinking the brand means how much money I make, how loud I am, how embellished it all can be, that that's what's going to attract. And it's not. I understand it because it did for a second during COVID it definitely was the attractor. People just threw their money at whoever seemed successful. And we now know a lot of people felt burnt, a lot of people felt betrayed because it wasn't. It was smoke and mirrors. So discernment is really important too, for the people listening in who maybe don't resonate with this. Maybe you don't have a personal brand. I'm actually teaching you to be discerning on the Internet, to know that there is this level of leadership that is undeniable. And so creating something that is positioned, creating influence that is pure and intentional, creating a brand that has so many points of entry that it's almost impossible to not enter would be exactly how I would set my brand up for success right now. Not to say that you're spreading yourself so thin, you're doing everything in a mundane way. Uh, we don't want to be a part of the cult of average for sure, but I would definitely say pick those lanes and double down on those things. And then when you have visibility, you will have that conversion, you'll have that result because you set it up that way. But do it first, don't wait for it. Because, uh, just a quick story, but a private client, she went viral and it was really something interesting to watch. Is the first time I saw it in real time. And we're talking tens of thousands of followers in matt matter of hours. Like it was wild and um, so fun. And here's the really great part of the story is I had built the business with her to prepare for a moment like this, and she now has the fastest growing community for moms in the world. And it sparked from that viral moment. And it happened in a way that she could hold it, the business could hold it, it was prepared for that. And that's why she has the business she has today. She didn't wait for the viral moment to go, oh my gosh, we prepared the business. And it's a bit of manifestation too. You build something in expecting a viral moment like, oh, I better be prepared for my viral moment identity.

Speaker A: And you just. I love that.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: And I think I always talk about having an ecosystem because so many founders will see the shiny object and they'll do the podcast or they'll do the book or they do the thing, but they're not interconnected. So I think what you're saying is really important, especially for brand growth. So obviously as an editor and um, interviewer, you have access to the stories behind these highly successful women. What patterns have you noticed in women who create lasting influence rather than just this temporary success? Because we see a lot of people rise, but we don't see them continue? I mean, I've been around for 25 years, but there's not many people from the beginning who are still around.

Speaker B: Mhm. Simple answer to that. Is it's not about themselves. Just hasn't been about themselves. It's been about this. Knowing that I have something to offer others that I know will change their life, their business, their relationship, their health, whatever that is. I know because I've lived the experience. I've, I've reaped the reward of this. And whether that be a health journey or going to school and getting a degree in something or trying something on, like for me with business, you know, I just, I just know how to build a brand. Like, I know that inside out and backwards. And so for her. And I do get to sit across the mic with the most spectacular women. I'm really blessed. And that really is ultimately what I noticed. It's not about how much I can get. It's been about how much can I give. And that's very counterintuitive on the Internet right now. And I wish more people would pick up on this. Uh, just realize it's not about doing this to get money, to get clients. You're doing this because it is a sole purpose. Like, it's like I got to do this because I can't keep it to myself. And I'm not doing this with a certain number attached or a certain date attached. I'm doing this and I'm going to work this until. And I say that all the time. Until. Until what? It took me 10 years of literally dying on the treadmill. I was doing everything I was told to do to reach a million dollar business. I wanted to quit so many times before that, but imagine if I had. So, yeah, so it took me 10 years, but it took me 10 years and here I am. And I feel like so many people quit before payday, quit before impact, because they're making it about themselves versus what actually was given to them as a gift, a God given gift to share with the world and keeping the focus on that.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I think it comes back to the whole sort of brand identity. But your mission and vision is the foundation for that. And if you are tr. True to that mission and vision, you're just waking up every day doing the thing that you love. You've designed a business around something that you're genuinely good at. Uh, and, and you're changing lives. And I think that is the piece it's. And then it lacks in the actual delivery or the experience. And I've always believed that the experience needs to be, um, if not better than the front end, it needs to be from the minute that that person deals with you and your brand, that Touch point all the way through. And I think that's why clients have stayed with me for so long. And I see, I suppose, my commonality or pattern in women who've done so well, it's when they really are passionate about that transformation, whatever it's going to be, and leaving a legacy. So you've obviously built the business while having four children, uh, and being a single mum, which in itself, like, is a crazy job. But what boundaries or standards or sacrifices have been essential, essential in allowing you to pursue these, you know, audacious, ambitious goals, but without losing yourself in the process.

Speaker B: So I, I really want to eradicate this idea of sacrificial living for women. And because we've just been raised forever feeling like we can only be good at one thing at one time. And this makes me a little emotional and. And I, I, um, I take this responsibility. I really, I take it on. And so for me, there's been exchanges, and that's the term I like to use. So I exchanged immediately.

Speaker A: Tv.

Speaker B: I just thought, I'm willing to not watch a lot of the shows. Like when people like, have you watched Real Housewives? Have you watched Loved Island? I'm like, no. And maybe, you know, culturally, those are things that are great topics of discussion and so on, but I don't feel like I'm losing out on anything necessarily either. That was an exchange. That was a choice. I chose to give that up, um, to build my business. And I actually think I'm better for it, to be quite honest with you. Um, so there's been those exchanges. I definitely have practiced presence. And so that, to me, has been the solution to removing guilt. Whether the guilt is, I have an idea sitting at dinner and I want to grab my phone and just jot it down. I don't feel guilty anymore around that. Nor do I feel guilty when I'm being totally present with my kids and making abuse dinner. And those practices we put into place in our day to allow me to be kind of in the mode and in the, um, space that I need to be in. So when I'm with someone, I'm with someone. And that took practice, that wasn't innate for me. But now that's one of the people. Most people say, you're just so present. Like, you hold space so well because I had to learn to hold that for myself. I had to learn to hold that for my business. I had to learn to hold that for four kids. I mean, four kids is no joke. And so, um, you know, that's just been a Practice does everything get equal? And that's why I said this long before, you know, Emma Green made it really, really popular currently. But balance is a lie, because when we're searching for balance, we're going to always feel imbalanced. And so when we feel that way, we're going to feel like we're failing and doing something wrong. I don't think that was ever the point because I look at four kids and I'm like, well, if balance were true, that means I have to spend equal time with each child that day, which is impossible because one that had a fight at school, one's got a new job, one just wants to be left alone and have space, like, so imagine if I forced that. That's not balanced, nor is that even fair to the relationships. So I think we have to be careful what we're searching for. And that I. What I like to do is, at the end of the day, go, is it harmonious today? And harmonious means, did I look after myself? Did I follow through on the things I said I was going to do? Did I spend time with the kids and did I call my parents? Like, those kinds of things that I know I don't want to look back on and regret? And again, it's not through equal parts, but it's through harmony of being. Like, I made those points of contact. I was present with the things that are my priority today. And that has really led me to. To hold what I hold.

Speaker A: I love it. Because if you think about it, I mean, when I first started, if I go right back to what I actually thought success was, it was very much the condition, society driven. What I saw online, making the money, doing the thing, I was absolutely miserable and burnt out, worn out. And I remember counting the steps once to get to a train, thinking, I've just got to go 100 more steps. And then. And I just thought, what on earth am I doing with my life? And everyone's like, dawn, you're doing so well, you're super successful. But I did not feel it. I had no attachment with what success was. And it took me a good few years to really understand that. Enrichment for me and experiences is on a daily level where the things that brought me the deepest, absolute joy, and that could be ridiculous things like just sitting and having a Starbucks on my own for half an hour, but those things were bringing me, like, the joy. It wasn't the other things. Yes, uh, there is obviously, you know, joy in scaling the business or hitting a milestone. But what really changed it was I designed A game board. And I bought myself, um, a glass queen. And for every, um, goal that I had, I got to do an experience. So I got to create the day. And I did all of these on my own. I never did them with other people because they were mine to understand and to process. So it could be going to book something for the family or buying something. And I think women especially are not great at understanding what success actually is to them, because success is being able to say that you've raised four children and like, you know, building a business as well, we get to have it all, but it's just different days get different ratios. So yes, and I've loved chatting about this. I could literally chat all day. Um, when I think about becoming iconic, one of the things I would love to kind of finish on is thinking about what does that actually mean for you for 2026? Like, what is your iconic moments that you're going to carve out for yourself this year?

Speaker B: Mhm. That's a great question. You know what's interesting, dawn, is I did a vision board, which I love doing, and I opened it just the other day and thought it's time for a fresh new vision board. Because most of what I put up there January 1st has come to fruition, which again makes me a little emotional in the best of ways. Like, wow, what a year I'm having. And we are having as a team. I'm certainly not doing this alone. Um, so it's a question that's actually leaving me a little bit raw and exposed because it's time to actually build a bigger vision for myself. So thank you for catching me on that. Simultaneously, what has led to the success already this year is being in the deep end. I'm not afraid this year of the work, I'm not afraid this year of the sweat equity. I'm not afraid this year of traveling and saying yes. I think for so many years and for so many of us it's been about like, okay, well should I. I don't know, I just went and like all these negotiations and I look at those women I admire right now and they're in the room, they're saying, yes, they're doing massive campaigns, they're stretching themselves into this identity version growth mode. And it's like I'm salivating over here and I thought, well, I can look at that and just be like, way to go and give them a round of applause or I can jump in that arena with them. And that's what I'm choosing. And so becoming iconic this year was really personal accountability to following through on the things that I said I would and saying yes to things, not overthinking and just cannonballing in the deep end, making a splash, not having to be pretty swan dive. You know, it's like, let's just give it a shot and give it a go. And it has definitely been an incredible journey so far this year.

Speaker A: Um, it gives me tingles thinking about this, because it makes me think about when I entered this year in January. I really had this feeling about, like, the word audacious and just really pushing the boundaries. So everything I'm doing at the moment, I'm trying to just push the boundary that little bit further to, like, really to a discomfort level of discomfort, but also the expansiveness that, you know, success, I guess, is infinite and limitless in terms of what we want to do. But it, for me, it's changing every single day and being dynamic around those audacious goals. Because sometimes I want something and the closer I get to it, I change my mind. And I think, no, I'm going to go bigger. So, yes, this has pushed me on a little bit because I've been thinking about something today, and I was doing kind of a new vision, vision board. So I'm going to go and push my goals slightly out there. So our final question of the podcast, and this is my favorite, because founders have all done amazing things and amazing stories, but we like to have a little bit rel. To know what your most embarrassing moment or funny story is.

Speaker B: Well, I think I have poor connection. Can you hear me? Okay.

Speaker A: Yes, I can.

Speaker B: Okay. Sorry about that. Just came up. Poor connection. So I want to make sure, um, I could be heard. I don't have this big story in my mind of this really embarrassing moment or funny moment. Um, probably because I'm a type A personality and I do everything humanly possible to ensure I avoid a lot of those things. But what comes up for me, and I think this is very human of us to discuss, is that, you know, there's been plenty of times in the business where I have built a big story, whether it's a launch of something or, you know, I've really painted a picture and suddenly links don't work or the thing doesn't go live or, you know, something happens on the back end where it's almost like I didn't follow through on this big thing that I said I was going to do. And I remember feeling embarrassed in those moments because, you know, you've painted this big picture. You've got all these, uh, eyes, and then it's like, bum, bum, bum. However, in those embarrassing moments, the lesson I've learned, because it is so easy just to have the red face and think, oh, my gosh, what are people going to think of me? Well, there they could create a negative story. If I leave it here, I'm going to actually turn this into a positive by leading this embarrassing moment, by leading myself through those times where we'd rather just brush everything under the carpet and have, you know, nobody pay attention. So, um, that those have been some, some humbling moments for me, for sure.

Speaker A: So if people want to follow along the journey and see what you've got in store and find out a little bit more about Iconic Magazine, where is the best place to find you?

Speaker B: I would say Instagram is a great place, um, becoming Iconic or Iconic Magazine, double underscore. And then the website is fabulous. We do have a creative agency and I think it's a great depiction of the work that we do. So you can go to becomingiconic.com and it houses all of that too. And the digital magazine is complimentary and I would highly recommend you go get your hands on that, if not the physical, because that would be my presence, I think, or my, my, um, preference, I should say, because I love teaching presence. And I think a woman who sits down with a good cup of coffee and flips through beautiful pages and reminds herself of excellence and standards and taste is such a good thing and beautiful stories from women. But if not that and you're more of a digital girly, then definitely get your hands on that digital copy. It's complimentary and it's there on the website as well.

Speaker A: And I would advocate that because when I met you, I took away two beautiful copies. So when I sat on the plane on the way home, I had my coffees, my snacks, and then I just sat and read. And it was so inspiring. And it does. It makes you think about your own brand and your own, um, wants and wishes. And I think it definitely pushes the aspiration. So it is a beautiful read, be it online or obviously in, in its physical nature. So thank you so much for joining me today. I really enjoyed chatting and, um, guys, if you've enjoyed the podcast, please go and support Jen on her journey and get the magazine. And also if you can rate and review dawn of a New Era as well. So thank you so much and take care of one. We'll see you on the next episode. Thanks, Jen.

Speaker B: Thank you.