People First: Systematizing Go-to-Market for Your Role with Christy Honeycutt (1/2)

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Welcome to the Nerd Journey podcast. Our goal is to help you, the technology professional, accelerate your career progression, increase your job satisfaction and be more effective in your existing role.

Speaker C: We want to bring listeners like you the career advice we wish we'd been given earlier in our careers.

Speaker B: I'm John White, uh, journeyman on Twitter, sharing co host duties with nick Cordyce at NetworkNerd.

Speaker C: We're two former IT operations guys who have moved on to pre sales roles with technology vendors. We have our opinions, but we also like to highlight the journeys of others and see what we can learn from them.

Speaker B: We'd also like to ask for your feedback to make this a conversation, not a one way broadcast. Email us at nerdjourneypodcastmail.com or DM US Erdjourney on Twitter. So come join us on our Nerd journey.

Speaker C: Let's take a trip. Episode 352 We m normally think of Go to Market in the context of a company or its products and services, but what if we could apply this idea to our current job role? Christie Honeycutt is a podcaster and an experienced talent acquisition executive who has used Go to Market as a personal differentiator throughout her career. This week, in part one of our discussion with Christy, we'll define Go to Market, tell you how Christy applied this in the banking industry and how that carried her into a role in recruitment. Christy also shares why she takes, uh, a people first mindset in everything she does and how it's helped her excel. And then she'll also educate us on some layers to the recruitment process you might not know as a job candidate, especially as it relates to recruitment process outsourcing or rpo. Let's get you to part one of our discussion with Christy Honeycutt.

Speaker B: Christy Honeycutt, welcome to the Nerd Journey podcast.

Speaker A: Thank you, John. Thank you, Nick. I'm so excited to be here.

Speaker B: It's great to have you here, Christy. We wanted to hear a different point of view than we normally have on. Before we get into that, maybe you can introduce yourself and tell us what it is that you do.

Speaker A: I can tell you that I'm not the dark vader evil type that's going to tell you why you aren't getting jobs. But I will help you understand the other side. The dark side. I'm Christy Honeycutt. I host a couple of podcasts inside the C Suite. That's where I interview executive leaders to understand, uh, what they're doing in our community, how they're impacting the work of their people. What they're bringing, innovation wise, things like that. And then I also host a podcast called Strategic Shift for a company called People Work. And we talk about the future of work, innovation and AI. Outside of that, I'm a yogi meditation coach. I have a Frenchie, 20 years of talent acquisition experience, go to market experience and a little bit of marketing sprinkled throughout.

Speaker C: That's a lot to unpack.

Speaker A: It's a lot to unpack.

Speaker C: Before we rewind the clock, can you just define talent acquisition for people that maybe don't understand what that means?

Speaker A: So, Nick, you're testing me because before we hopped on the audience, the question from these wonderful gentlemen here was the difference between talent acquisition and recruitment. And although I've been in it for 20 years, I actually double checked the definition to make sure I was right. Because oftentimes I think we all think it's the same thing. Think about recruitment being more active, as in, I have a job, these are the specs. I need to find someone. There's a time constraint to it. We need to get somebody in the seat. That's recruitment. Talent acquisition is a little bit more strategic. I might understand why the role is vacant, what they're looking to do from a succession planning standpoint, what the workforce planning looks like, if there's any cultural initiatives that's usually, uh, engaging passive pipelines for long term goals. So that's really the difference. But I'll tell you to my brothers and sisters in talent acquisition and recruitment, they're all in it, most of them, because they have good hearts and they want to help you guys, but their functions may look a little bit different from company to company, size of the company, et cetera.

Speaker B: I had another question, which is a definition question.

Speaker A: Oh, great, let's pull out the dictionary.

Speaker B: Now. I just was wondering how you define go to market organization. I've heard the phrase over and over again and I think we sometimes say it over again, assuming that everybody knows what it means. But maybe we need to get some, uh, definitions out there.

Speaker A: So go to market, from the way that I speak to it is I specialize in helping and it's a little twofold, right? Because whenever you come up in marketing and then you roll into recruitment and then you roll into actual, like doing sales. Go to market for me is understanding what is the product and who is the end user. So am I filling a job? Then I'm going to market to find that candidate that fits that job? Am I working for a tech company, which I most recently did? Then yes, I need to understand what is our product, who's the end user, who's the buyer, and how can I get this to market for them to, to see, to use, to buy, and to be delighted in. So the go to market's really, um, kind of a Frankenstein effect, in my opinion. It's really understanding the value and how it translates and then how you can connect the dots. That's my definition.

Speaker B: No, I think that that's a really good way to define it. You're spanning multiple organizations. Right. Including talent acquisition, including marketing, including sales. How do we organize all those organizations to achieve a singular goal?

Speaker A: Exactly. It's a lot like uh, if you think about recruitment, the go to market usually is set by the organization from your mission to vision and values and what the culture is, because there's a very specific thing and a very specific essence that they're looking to bring into the organization. So go to market for me has just kind of been at my core since I was a kid.

Speaker C: Okay, tell us more about that. How so? Was it part of your course since you were a kid?

Speaker A: So my dad is a marine and he will tell you. I think this is where I learned my sales picture pitch is from him. But if I wanted to go to the zoo with my boyfriend, I would have to start out with some like really crazy requests and questions to wear him down to get him where I really wanted. So I would always start at uh, like the most outlandish thing that you could possibly think of. Like, hey, Susie and I want to go to the mall. We're going to be wearing like miniskirts and punk rock hair and there's a concert, something that wasn't even happening. And then all the way get well. Can I just go to the zoo? You know, Mark's parents are going to drop us off. Not a big deal. And usually I would get what I wanted. So that's what I mean by go to market. Understanding kind of how to sell and bring the dots together.

Speaker C: And I think you started in marketing, is that right? Is that where your career started?

Speaker A: I did. So I had a non traditional way up. So I was a flyer in high school, cheerleader, had a full paid scholarship at uh, 17 years old. Found out I had cancer, was given a couple of years to have children. It was very, very important to me to have kids. I've always wanted to be a mom. I have two boys, by the way, the way, very, very healthy, 30 and 32. But when that happened, my life took a different course. I wasn't able to go ahead and go to college and, you know, take advantage of the. I could have, but I would have axed my chances for having children. I didn't take that path. Instead, I married my sweetheart who was in college, and very quickly became pregnant within the year and had another child within two to three years after that. I. I'm healthy and happy and I'm here, but I'm glad I'm no longer able to have children. So I'm glad that that happened. So I became a stay at home mom. My dad owns a nonprofit. I was very involved in marketing for nonprofits. I sat on the school board of my children's school. I did a lot of volunteerism. I taught preschool. As life moves on, My husband had accepted a position that moved us from states. And when we landed in the new state, you know, I found myself suddenly needing to find a job and support my children. I literally walked across the street and applied at a bank. It was Washington Mutual. It got bought out by Chase. I had never held a position officially. It was like, you know, volunteer things or little, little jobs here or there. And I just walked the walk and talked the talk. They offered me a manager job. And I was like, I can do this. And so I did it. And I was a bank manager for a while. And within six months, that branch was the highest producing branch in the state of Texas. I was outperforming most branches. I was coming up with marketing issues, get people in really creative things. I loved Halloween. So I threw a Halloween contest. Every year we get the winners savings accounts. And it just drew lots of news. And, uh, we actually had a bank robbery. So I learned leadership in the heat of action. So gentleman walks in. I walk right up to him like a magnet. Hey, how are you? Can we help you? What's going on today? I was on my way to, to go to the ladies room and I talked to the gentleman for a few minutes and I thought, ooh, he just gave me the ick. I just had a bad feeling, you know, you get the goosebumps. And I just walked off. Well, I came back less than five minutes later, and he had robbed my bank. Whenever a bank is robbed, the first thing they do is they take everybody and put you in separate places. So the bank staff knows that. So protocol was called. They hit the button. The guy tried to leave, bag blew up on him. He's all blue. The, uh, Texas Rangers come in, and they're exactly what you think they look like when you see them on tv. That's exactly what they look like. The Long pointy toe boots, the big 10 gallon hat, you know, howdy, ma'. Am. Like the whole thing, right? So they asked me, they said, well, you know, ma', am, we need you to tell us, uh, you know, what did you see? Can you describe the gentleman? And I did. And so they were looking at me like I was crazy. And I didn't think anything about it because I said, oh yeah, he had these shoes on, they were shiny. His, his pants were pleated up the front and he had a belt on, but it was looped where it was on the left side, not the right side. I mean, all the way up. I could tell you everything. And I. So they said, well, ma', am, we might need you to testify. We, uh, I had it all on camera. I never had to testify, but it was like identical. So I realized in that moment, thanks to the Texas Rangers, that I have a photographic memory, which drives my family crazy, because if you move anything. I know. So my kids could never get away with anything.

Speaker B: That's hilarious. What a, what a way to find out too.

Speaker A: It was a, it was a great way to find out. But banking is kind of where it started in marketing. And so one of my clients came in and um, we would always tease because he was a mortgage broker. And he would say, you know, how much did you do this month? I was, ah, I did 2.5 million. How much did you do this month? Well, he did 1.5 million, but he's handing me his commission check which was 10 times more than mine. So I was like, wow, working at a bank, you know, running to practices. My boys were in every sports you could imagine. I never missed a practice. I was just wearing myself out. But he said, well, let's, let's put you out there. He actually sent an email out. And I had so many interviews. And this is a fun story. Cause I told you guys I like spooky things in Halloween. My first interview was with a, uh, big bank, Prime Lending, their mortgage division. I actually showed up for the interview dressed like I Love Lucy, Lucille Ball. I had red dyed hair, I had the whole outfit on. It was a whole vibe. And I didn't care. Like I, I was hosting this big event for the bank. This is an opportunity. They like me, they don't. I'm still gotta go do my job. Well, they actually loved it. And they'd never interviewed a, uh, Lucille Ball in person before. And I crushed the interview. We had lunch and they offered me the job on the spot. So I put in my, my resignation and I went over there, you know, I got affiliate of the year. I did a lot of stuff for the organizations and charities and different things with them to kind of get them into the market. But the really cool thing that happened is they said, we want you to hire three of you. And I said, what does that mean? How do you. How do I hire three of me? And they said, well, what you're doing is working. So what we'd like you to do is go have a think about how you can multiply that into other branches. So I basically came in, pitched an idea, um, got hired, did it, it was successful. Can you imagine sitting down and going, what is it that I did today and how did I do it? And just really creating a job description, a profile, how they're going to be successful, and then find the people and train the people. So that was my very first kind of experience with recruitment. It was just very natural component to me because it's, you know, you've got a job, you've got to get it done, and here's the components that you need to do it. So when you simplify it and take kind of the, the shock away, the shock and awe of someone telling you to multiply yourself, it actually worked out quite well. But what I found out is that that began to be a process in my career that I would repeat over and over and over. Because I would go, I would think outside the box, I would create something really special. I would get it automated to the point that I didn't need to do it, do it anymore. Either my job wasn't needed or I was bored and I would move on to the next one. But I. I think there's been very few roles that I've been in that I didn't experience that very situation.

Speaker C: Okay, rewind back for a second to that first bank. Because you were managing people at that time, right?

Speaker A: Yes, I was.

Speaker C: So you hadn't really had any training on that before. Is that accurate?

Speaker A: That's completely accurate. Most managers don't get training to be a manager. That's why they're so crappy.

Speaker C: So how did you figure out what to do? So you've not had training, you're put in this manager role. I'm just really curious, how'd you figure out this is the way to do it and then translate that to the next role where you had to create the job descriptions?

Speaker A: Well, so with big banks, they have training on the laws and the procedures, so that was easy. Uh, the thing that I had to train myself on was the people was their schedules, you know, the pay. That wasn't. That was easy. It was done through corporate, but it was more their schedules and kind of how to manage them and how to encourage them. And so for me, it was more of just a human connection. I was friends with everybody at the bank, and yes, I was the boss, but I was. And I'm still friends with every single person that worked at the bank. So lots of fun stories at the bank. You know, bank robberies outside. Yes, there are some. Some fun things that happen in the bank.

Speaker B: You said something which was interesting, which is the multiply yourself that involves a bunch of different things. But you had to systematize the job that you were actually doing. You had to write playbooks, I'm assuming, um, so other people who weren't you could kind of follow that similar process. And then you had to go find and hire people who could handle that system and those playbooks. Is. Is that accurate?

Speaker A: Yes, it's quite daunting. So, like, if. If I asked you, I don't know what. What you guys do every day, but there's probably something that you're really great at and when you're really good at things, what I found is they seem natural to you, and they're not that hard. So for me, it was like, what do you mean? You want me to. To duplicate myself? This isn't anything. And so when I took a beat back, which is good for your audience too, because when they look at what they've done over the course of their career, just kind of take a. Take a breath and go, what did I actually do? Because I think as humans, we tend to downplay our gifts. Most of us downplay our gifts, or we have some imposter syndrome, or we don't want it, or we feel like it's being braggadocious to actually say what we've done, which is factual. So it was a lot of just kind of peeling back the onion of what is it that I did, and then simplifying that and then helping them. So if you think about what I did for Prime Lending, it was a mortgage division, and they needed to get more loans in. So the first thing I did was say, okay, who are your customers and your customer base? The first thing we need to do is reach out to all the customers and see if they're happy, if they have any needs. We need to host a customer appreciation event. That's step one. And then what that did is that informed me on what they liked, what they didn't like, how they could, the process could be improved. Then the other part is you look at uh, what's the product and who's the market. And so I did that. So well the market was real estate agents. And then understanding, well, how can I get a real estate agent to use this broker? I said, well they have to do continuous education. And one of the things that these real estate agents have a challenge with is marketing because they just got their license, they're excited, they don't know what they're doing. So I went and got certified and started teaching marketing classes to the real estate agents. So I had a captured audience and all of those suckers started using my bank. It's just kind of understanding what's in it for someone else. But that, that's what I did is I just kind of went step by step by step and built the framework. And so now you've got the framework, you know where they need to go hunt. You break down the divisions, where they're located, who owns what division you own north, I own east, southwest, whatever it looks like. And then just worked it backwards and then the KPIs would come out of that as well. How many events did you go to this month? How many new contacts did you do? What is the satisfaction of the client base that closed this month and really uh, kind of holding them as a liaison between the customer, whether it be the realtor, the actual customer or the bank. So you're kind of navigating those relationships a bit like a liaison. And that's essentially what I did. So I looked for people that were empathetic, that really had a heart for helping people. And another avenue was first time homebuyers that might have bad credit. Well, I can help get them over the line which will help our real estate agents that need to get buyers. And so we started doing credit, uh, repair seminars, sponsoring those. And then that was bringing in buyers as well. So I was bringing in buyers, delighting previous buyers and then also going after, you know, the vendors that would help participate. And that honestly that model, that model is kind of been my two step my whole career.

Speaker C: I think there's ah, a three step actually if I may. The third leg of the stool from what I heard you say is supplementing those things with the type of education that will serve you and those who you seek to serve. Right, because you said you went and got certified to help serve that market better. So I'm guessing that gets repeated over the course of your story.

Speaker A: Oh, you're making me sound like I'm Just brilliant. Yes, actually it does because I got my BY AI certification when all this AI mess came out. Uh uh, which by the way, for your audience and I hope that they're listening and taking notes, in the next 12 to 18 months, over 80% of all organizations globally will have adopted AI, if they haven't already. So if you're looking for a job and you don't understand the basics and it's like we talked about, talent acquisition and recruitment, is it the same thing? AI has a lot of different names. I want you guys to think about that. That's usually marketing. AI agents, that's marketing. There's nothing special. They didn't go invent something great or different, they just changed it. So it's a little bit more consumable and understandable. But the one thing, and I was talking to the CEO of Practice and they specialize in education and the future of education. So they work with children in low income schools. He said if you don't have AI somewhere in your toolkit, even as kids, you have no future. And I'm hearing that, I talk to CEOs and CIOs and CLOs all the time and I'm hearing the same thing over and over and over again. So at least get the bare minimum. Minimum. But it's gotta be more than chatbot GPT. Go play, go create. Find how, how you feel about it. Have a point of view of your own, not everybody else's because that's going to be a requirement moving forward. And AI is going to take jobs, but it will be more lower level jobs kind of things that are low hanging fruit that frankly we probably want automated anyway. I got caught in the 24 hour travel delay when the comms went down in Dallas. They closed down DFW and love, uh, field. There was one agent at the gate, 50 people in line. Everyone is on their phone and the agent's like, please call the help desk. You call the help desk. It's a two hour wait. That's why everybody was in line because they're probably going to get to him before the agents pick up. I went on and just played with their AI agent at the airport and was like, I'd rather talk to the AI agent because it's going to tell me what I need to know quicker. There's a little bit of, I think just overcoming fear and knowing that it's, it's a very practical application. But for any job you're going into, that's probably going to start to be questions. You're Going to get around that AI piece and the other thing around the AI piece. You know, I just came back from HR Tech and I interviewed several CEOs and I said, how do you differentiate your product? Because if you walk around and you look at the, all the tech booths, they all say the same thing. AI, AI, AI. These CPOs, CHROs, all these buyers, they don't know the difference because everyone is saying the same thing. So it's okay, is what I'm saying. It's okay. Nobody really knows. We're all making it up as we go. But it's going to be really, really important to at least have an awareness and to research it and have your own point of view going into these. And you can get AI certifications really cheap and you can get them for free in some places. There's ways to get the education, to become knowledgeable and to play around so you don't feel like you're out of it.

Speaker C: There's something that I like to call the double check mark when it comes to supplementing your professional development with education. What will help me now in the job that I do to be better, and what will help me in the longer term to be more valuable in the market? Because if it only makes me better at my current job, but doesn't make me marketable in the future, that's not quite as helpful as something that can make me better at what I do now and help me later. Just my take.

Speaker A: So whenever I was advising on this tech startup, uh, the CEO would always ask me, well, is that applicable for just this customer? I said, well, no, I wouldn't bring you something that's applicable for one customer. Why would I do that then? We're building unicorns every doggone day, right? So it's very much a tech answer. Like, okay, but is that applicable to all things? And if so, then we will proceed.

Speaker C: Don't get me wrong, sometimes you may need to do things that just make you better right now, but ideally you, you span over to both.

Speaker A: I concur wholeheartedly.

Speaker B: Just the whole background education in it was almost like you're talking about, you know, research in what is making customers happy and unhappy right now you mentioned product market fit. Were these all things that you look back on now with a more, uh, nuanced and a lot more experience under your belt, or was that all natural at the time?

Speaker A: It was really natural at the time. And I gotta, I gotta tell you, when you're a single mom, you gotta be scrappy. But I'm also the Oldest of four kids and I'm the only girl. You know, it's funny today cause I am a certified meditation coach. I like my Certs. But it's funny because as I sit back and I think, and I think we do that as we get older in age, I realize everything was kind of predestined. And at the moment it just felt like I was reacting and I was doing it. But as I'm talking to you guys and as I do my own reflection, I'm realizing that these cycles I've been on have always been for a reason, like guiding me to where I'm at. You know, it's like I said, you gotta take a breath and just kind of brag on yourself a little bit and say, well, these things are strong. These things are strengths for me. Because they're easy for you doesn't mean that they're not strengths. Like I can't work on a car that's somebody else's strength. I can race it, but I can't work on it.

Speaker B: Well, it's interesting that you said that. One of the things that we've come across is the skill of teaching somebody to do something is different from the skill of doing it really well. Like it's two different skills. Right. And the person who is best able to teach something might not actually be the person who's best able to do. Sounds like you had to kind of self reflect and think, oh, I don't necessarily understand why you need to be trained at this because it seems so natural. And then go back and learn how to systematize it and train other people to do it. And that sounds like it wasn't natural because it hadn't happened yet and you had to learn how to do it.

Speaker A: Yeah, it wasn't natural. And I did have to think about it. I can remember how I felt like when they, uh, like in my body, I can remember how my body felt. I felt like, what do you mean I have to duplicate my. How am I going to do what? What? And it was just the craziest thing. The other thing I did that helped me with that is I looked at roles similar to mine outside of my organization to understand, well, what did they do and what did the job description say? And is it like I'm doing or different? Which is funny because you would think I would do that before I pitched a job I'd never worked in and got it right. Everything's a learning lesson. Every. I don't regret any place I've ever worked. I don't Regret any situation I've ever had because it was all opportunity for me to learn how to manage through a situation, good, bad or indifferent, and reflect on it and how I would do it differently. You know, I told you guys earlier that no one learns how to be a manager. I'm actually a forthcoming author. I just got signed with Postal Publishing House. I my book is due to them spring of 26 and oddly enough, it is about leadership. And in the book I talk about how no one, I don't care. You're not trained to be a leader. You just kind of fall into it. Because if you think about the first time you're a leader, you're reporting to somebody that maybe just got a promotion from being a first time leader. So how much knowledge or coaching are you really, really going to get? I think it's a gap. It's a big gap. Because if you think about all the managers that we have, first manager, second, third up until you really get into kind of your director, and I'm really going to say more vp, we're still learning. No one sits you down and says, hey, these really crazy things are going to happen and you're going to have to respond to these humans in a particular way. And by the way, you're human and you might have a really bad response to what you have to respond to. So, you know, I've dealt with sexual harassment, I've dealt with bomb threats, my bank was robbed. I mean, there's lots of things that you deal with that I don't think anyone could prepare you to deal with. And so you learn on the job.

Speaker C: When you had to create the job descriptions to scale yourself, get more people like you and hire them, did that make you actually enjoy management more or maybe even question, do I really want to keep doing this?

Speaker A: So I questioned, uh, do I really want to keep doing this? Because what happened is now instead of me being in charge of my crazy schedule and my crazy, you know, go to market cheerleading, kind of like, looky, looky at this company, you've got to be a part of it kind of a thing. It expanded and it got more complex. So instead of me being in charge of one person doing all these things, I'm now in charge of four people doing all the things that I'm doing. And again, they're trying to do it to my methodology, right? And they're going to have their own flair. Frankly, I got kind of bored because I created something, I duplicated myself, multiplied myself, and I was like, okay, I'm ready for the next thing, I can do this now I'm ready for the next thing. Uh, that for me, I'm constantly curious and I always need something more just to kind of keep my attention. There's a lot of people in the industry that I think are that way, especially in tech. Right. Like once you guys master something, it's like, what's next? What's the next cert? What's the latest thing that's out? And those are the people that employers are looking for. They're looking for the curious people. They're looking for the open minded individuals that want to adapt and want to learn and do more, because those are the ones that have the longevity.

Speaker B: You said something very interesting there. It almost implied that your background in cheerleading helped you in marketing.

Speaker A: John's, uh, just making me feel so good about myself. Yes, I think, yes. Recruiters, listen to me. Go to your high schools and your colleges and find the cheerleaders and find the pep squad and find all of those people. Because those are the people that love community and they love to empower and cheer on other people. Honest to goodness, every cheerleader, every pep squad person I've ever met, it's not because we want to wear cute outfits and do all the things and trust me, it is a sport. Is. I have been injured so many times. I've been dropped on my head, on my neck, I've been thrown 30ft in the air. It is a sport and we work just as hard as the guys do. And there are guy cheerleaders, by the way. But there is a commonality in those individuals. They like collaboration, they like to win, they like to cheer. They think that there's power in the energy they're giving and there is power in the energy they're giving. I like to look at things from an energy lens. So if you look at recruiters and talent acquisition folks in every industry, you've got really good players and you've got bad actors. So not all recruiters, not all talent acquisition people are really kind hearted and love what they're doing and they're in it for, for you. Some of them are in it because they don't have another choice. They hate their job. They're just staying there because it's not safe. Or maybe they can't get anything through. They might love you, but they can't get anything through. But the majority of the people within the HR and TA space generally joined that type of work because they love people and they're fearful right now because, uh, they think AI is taking their job and some of them probably will. But you're never going to get away from the AI and the EQ piece that's required in the age of AI. We need to be more human now than ever. Yeah, I think there is a little bit to that.

Speaker C: At what point did you realize for you it was more about the people?

Speaker A: It's always been about the people. For me, everything I do has been about people. I'm a people first just in everything

Speaker C: I do, so it was always about the people. Even at the job where you had to hire more of you scale yourself.

Speaker A: The very first thing that I did when I got the job was I want to talk to all your customers.

Speaker C: Yep, that's true.

Speaker A: You did say that. And that's the, you know, and you got to think about like go to market as well. It's the same regardless what company you're at. You need to understand your customers are your biggest resource because they will either be the loudest complainers or your biggest fans. And if they're your biggest fans, they're going to say, hey, I'd really like this, this widget fixed or what did you guys think about this? I love that, especially for startups because they're seeing stuff from a lens you don't have, which is making you more valuable because it's giving you insight, free insight and knowledge on how to, how to help them. And a lot of the really great ideas come from your customers. Right. They're using it probably more than you are. You've created a really cool widget and you're really super excited about it and you launch it and you're on to the next thing. Well, maybe that widget could actually be improved slightly or maybe it needs to be updated or changed that. I've been told that I'm too, uh, client advocate friendly and that was supposed to be a dig when I, when I was told this from a senior leader and I said thank you. Because if you sell something and you're after it for a price, then you're a one trick pony. If the users don't adopt it, you're a one trick pony. You're only as good as that contract is, period. But if you sell something and you care and you check in and you pivot, then you've got a client for life. And that's, I think where my specialty comes from is the human side, the people side is just always remembering what's in it for somebody else. Because we all have exchanges every day. Like what's in it for the other person. You guys do this podcast. I've met with you, and I can speak to your audience, that you do it because you care and because you want to help people. Right. You're very, very empathetic. I think that's your why. You could say your why, but I think that's probably your why.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: Yeah. Uh, that's what you're getting out of it, is you're probably getting a high and a give, because at some point in your career, you probably needed what you're giving.

Speaker B: Got it in 100%.

Speaker A: People are my thing. Like, I just. I get. I get the heart, I get the energy, and I think at the end of the day, I mean, we all put our shoes on the same way. That's why I love Inside the C Suite, because it demystifies the white ivory tower. It's not so white, and they're super lonely up there, and they care just as much. Right. It's understanding, like, how you navigate and how your priorities change. You know, what's now, what's next, what's urgent always evolves as you grow in your career.

Speaker B: You talk about what's next in your career. You did eventually transition from that position, and it looked like the next time that you were working for, you know, for a different organization, it was a little bit more focused on talent acquisition. Is that. Is that right? Am I reading that right?

Speaker A: So I was at my son's. One of my son's baseball games, right? They're three years apart. And if anybody has boys or girls in Little League, three years apart is not on the same team. So I was running all over town for every single practice and every single game. And I'm proud to say I never missed a single game. And I was traveling all over the place, hosting events and doing different things. And this. This dad on the team saw me. He goes. He goes, what do you do? You always look like your hair's on fire. I go, my hair is on fire. Like, I'm literally a single mom. I'm, like, fitting this stuff in.

Speaker C: Um.

Speaker A: He goes, have you ever thought about recruitment? I said, what's that? And he goes, oh, you'd be great at it. And I go, what is it? He goes, well, it's a little bit like marketing. And I go, how so? He goes, well, you know, client needs a certain thing. And you go, find a certain thing. And however you find it, you find it. And I go, that's a lot like marketing. He goes, exactly. So I went and I interviewed. It was for a company called, um, Straight source. And I got the job on the spot. And they got bought out by a company called Conexa. My favorite CEO in the world by the way. You should look him up. Rudy Carson, he is a tech CEO. Then they got bought out by Big Blue. So what that company was, what I did was recruitment process, outsourcing. So when you, when you talk to your audience about recruitment, talent acquisition, all those, there's so many different layers that people don't know. There's staffing agencies which they get a bad rap. They're usually high volume hourly roles predominantly, or maybe um, a six to nine month role here or there. So they're really looking to just come in, gun it and go. Quality isn't always the best candidate. Experience isn't always the best. But again what's in it for them is they get, they close it, they get paid and sometimes it's on retention. So they've got to move quickly. Then you've got recruitment process, outsourcing. And I did that for many, many years. I actually specialize in that. I headed that up at, at IBM at. I grew future step into Korn Ferry for their rpo. And when you do that really, really well, the clients think that you're their internal recruiter. So General Motors was a client, UnitedHealth Group was a client. CVS was a client. TA Connectivity. I can go on and on and on and on. I think over my career. Not me directly, but within my teams. I've probably placed around 30,000 individuals in my career. So let's say GM says we want to outsource our recruitment, we want to outsource it to you guys for specialization, which they did at this time and it was global. So I had to sit down and go, okay, where, where do they need these people? They need it globally. How much time do we have? Okay, we've got 60 days to do it. These are full time roles. This is what they need. Here's the skill set they need. So you need this many engineering recruiters, this many marketing recruiters, this many, whatever it was, right? So you map it out, that workforce strategy that we were talking about. Now the goal is to get this team that works for Big Blue or Korn Ferry or name the RPO insert here. Right? There's so many of them guys by the way. So they go work for these organizations. Oftentimes you think that the recruiters you're working with are internal recruiters, they're not. But when an RPO does a good job, not only does the candidate think that they're an internal recruiter, but the clients think they're an internal recruiter. When I left the UHG account, I was a liaison manager for them over there. You guys are going to die over their tech sales and marketing. And, um, this is all coming back to me now. This is like therapy. But I gave my notice. I wasn't leaving. I was still with my company. I was going to manage the internal team. I was moving off a client into an internal team, which is another upskilling thing. But I went backwards. So I was a manager and I said, I want to be a recruiter. They said, are you crazy? I said, no, I want to understand what the recruiter's going through so I can be a better manager. And they said, no, we can't let you go. You're our highest producer. I said, well, you don't have a choice. Either you let me move or I quit. So I had the job the next day. So when I gave my notice to UHD that I was leaving, I got bouquets of flowers. They thought that I was their employee. They thought that I worked for uhd. They did not know I was a vendor. That's when you do it really well. That's a good rpo. Why your candidates or your audience is out there looking for jobs. Just be mindful that, you know, TA recruitment, hr, depending on the size of the organization, what's going on, you may be talking to an agency, you may be talking to an rpo, you may be talking to an internal recruiter. You can ask them. They don't have to tell you. And it's going to be difficult for people too, because if you look at our industry right now, in the market, every single United states citizen has 7 points of fraud a day, every single day. And so I haven't been on the market or in the hourly market for sure for a good 20 years, if ever. And I'm getting text messages from companies claiming to be Robert Half, claiming to be Ronstadt claiming to be xyz, saying, I've got a job for you. This is whatever the name is. Can I send you some information on WhatsApp? It's fraud. So be really, really careful if your candidates and you're out there and applying is going to be really wonky. One of the things that I did, you know, we talked about go to market when I worked for Korn, uh, Ferry, and when I worked for the tech startup, I created this thing called an application analysis. And what it would do is it would tell our clients what the experience was like for the candidate when they were applying, was there a widget in their process that was broken? Were they actually even getting applications because their site was down and they had no idea? How are they showing up on Glassdoor? What's the biggest complaints? You know, are they showing up that they're a good diversity hire? Are they showing up that they, um, have good management? And I'll tell you, if you guys go look at Glassdoor, the lowest score, 9 out of 10 times, do you know what it is? It's leadership. 9 out of 10 times, the lowest score is leadership. Next to that, it's usually going to be pay, and then it kind of falls from there on Glassdoor, it's important to know that those are being ranked from, from people like yourself, people like me. We go apply for a job or we work there and we're ranking how we feel about. About it. As humans, I would challenge you to be honest with yourself because we usually just don't go take time to go on Glassdoor and be like, my employer's amazing and I love everything about them. No, we're usually going this beep, beep, beep, beep. I'm trying to be nice. John told me how to keep my mouth clean. Said, beep, beep, beep, beep. That's why you'll always see those two things. You'll see leadership and you'll see salary. Now, is it true? Probably, but we have to give the employers benefit of a doubt. So when you know where the sources are coming from and you're honest with yourself on when you give feedback and how you give feedback, until we can all step up as humans and start giving like two to three good feedbacks a day, we're never going to balance out the negative. But you guys got me on a roll. It's just some things I wanted to pepper with you that might be helpful for people that don't understand. I forget that I've done this for so long and it's not common knowledge for everybody.

Speaker C: You're systematizing it for the rest of us. I like it.

Speaker A: A skill I didn't know. Yeah,

Speaker C: M. You heard it emphasized a couple different times. Understanding what's in it for the other people that you're working with? What are their incentives? What are the metrics they need to hit? What does success look like for them? And Christy shared with us, uh, the application of go to market. When you're working at a bank, when you're working as a recruiter, what if you're working somewhere and internal, it what would that look like? Well, it would start with understanding the technology landscape at, uh, your company. The hardware, the software, the cloud services and subscriptions. You have the overall vendor landscape that you work with, including open source, understanding the capabilities you're providing and understanding the end user base that you're supporting. Think about the capabilities you're providing to end users like a product. But also think about the value those capabilities deliver to people at your company and perhaps even people external to your company. Can your products or your capabilities, can those be improved or enhanced based on end users needs and their feedback and understanding customer sentiment that Christy talked about, she did at the bank? How could things be improved? Are we willing to take that feedback? Will those enhancements to what you're delivering to parts of the business, will those increase productivity, save time, decrease risk, uh, decrease cost, or even increase revenue? Those are all important things to understand as far as impact metrics and overall documentation for your career. You may have to make a case to actually do the work if it's going to take a lot of time to do. Maybe you automate some process that's extremely manual today and it turns something that took 12 hours into 15 minutes. And if that task is repeated once a week, that's a lot of time saved and that translates into dollars. Make sure you capture that. If you change some of the hardware software vendors you work with, will you still be able to provide the same capabilities to your end user base? Make sure you understand that as you assess those changes. That's part of this making sure you don't disrupt your customer base. Is there some new capability that you could provide to the end user base that you serve that would delight them or deliver even more value? That's part of your go to market. Are there members of the end user base who might need to be educated on using the services that you, the technology team, is providing in an effective way so that they can be better at, uh, what they do. Part of the issue might just be that people don't know how to use some of the tools available to them. Don't forget to check out the podcast that Christy hosts Inside the C Suite and Strategic Shift. I really think listening to podcasts where executive leaders give a perspective like on Inside the C Suite, gives you some insight into the way they communicate, the things that are important to them and the things that they talk about that might be hard for individual contributors to understand. Podcasts are a great way to gain that perspective. And it's something outside of your company town hall or what you hear from your own executives, for example. It's good education. And while we did give a little bit of an introduction to recruitment process outsourcing, we'll talk more about that in our next episode. See you in two weeks.

Speaker B: Farewell, listeners. Tune in next time as the journey continues. I'm John White at B Journeyman for Nick Cordy. Network nerd underscore signing off.

Speaker C: Adios.