How to Navigate Complex B2B Sales Qualification in Global Markets

Olha: 1, 2, 3, 4. Oh. Unfortunately, most of the salespeople, and I'm basically part of this gang, our motto is like, it's easy to be busy. It's always so many things to do.

What most of the people fail to recognize is they do not really consider that lead is a person. It's not a company because we say the things are too expensive. Only when we don't see the value. Dmytro: Hi, I am Dmytro Shvets, your host at the Start Global Insights, where I interview experts from different countries about local business secrets and international expansion experience.

Today we'll talk about complex sales, which, um, appears when you are selling abroad. When you're selling abroad, and you have so many opportunities and you have so many clients. Uh, and this is, uh, good from one hand, but uh, from other hand. Uh, you need to understand, uh, how much attention to devote to each of, uh, this client because, uh, today the mass mailing or uh, mass contacting through LinkedIn is not working anymore.

You need to investigate and, um, be more like int intelligence agent, uh, than the sales person. And, uh, to go deeper in this, uh, topic. Uh, I invited my guest today, uh, Olha Kobrina. Uh, she's a channel sales manager for CEE at Splunk at Cisco Company.

Uh, and Olha has, uh, more than 17 years in B2B sales in, uh, different countries from central and eastern Europe to, uh, Middle East and Africa. Hi, Olha, and welcome to the show. Olha: Hi, Dima. Hi everyone.

Uh, first of all, thank you for having me. I'm really excited to share my experience and hopefully it'll be useful for you. Dmytro: Great. Uh, could you tell a bit about yourself?

What do you do? Uh, at, uh, Splunk? Olha: Yeah, uh, absolutely. So in Splunk, uh, currently my role is to help.

So first of all, Cisco and Splunk, we are in indirect sets, so we rely a lot on our partner ecosystem. So now my role is actually help our partners to find new leads to qualify the leads. And to help them to move the lead through the sales process. And of course to develop the partner skills that will be enough for them to do the sales process themselves and of course to do the implementation, adoption and post-sale support.

Previously, actually, you're right, most of my experience comes from the sales. So I'm the channel development only for the last two years. Before this, uh, I was a sales person for Cisco, and afterwards, I, afterwards I moved to, um, AppDynamics. So I did the observability projects and so you can think that, uh, I was first involved in the hardware sales.

It's always was B2B, so I moved from hardware to cloud software, and now I'm in security. Dmytro: So from one side you have a complex product of your company. And, and from the other side you have, uh, also the complex, uh, buyer. Yeah.

Because most, in most cases, you are not selling to, uh, one single person. You are selling to the company. And then you have this internal ecosystem of, uh, stakeholders or people inside the company. Uh, so this is like a collision of two universes, uh, together.

And you need to find these links between all these, uh, people and to, to understand how to, uh, proceed. And, and I think that the biggest challenge here is to understand, uh, to whom to devote your full attention to, to what clients to invest your time and to what clients could be. Shifted, uh, for the later, uh, approach. Now, how do you do that?

So you, you mentioned that, uh, you have this qualification, uh, stage. Uh, why do you need it? Olha: Yeah. Good, good point.

First of all, yeah, let me just like reiterate what you just said. Um, it's, yes, it is complex. Uh, multiple teams are involved, uh, uh, as on our side, the same on the partner side, and the same on the customer side, side. When multiple teams are involved and multiple people are involved, the first thing that we have, it's, uh, time and prioritization.

And, uh, unfortunately, I dunno, like fortunately, unfortunately, yeah, but most of the salespeople, and I'm basically part of this gang, uh, our motto is like, it's easy to be busy. Hmm. It's always so many things to do. It's always, it's opening the CRM in the morning.

It's, uh, you have, I'm just making up the numbers, but you have 15 IQ opportunities you working on. Then you have another like 20, 30 fours coming from marketing, the registrations coming from partners and yes, the, the big thing is actually how to prioritize and how to. What it's actually worth your attention. And the same is actually when it's come to involving some other people, because everyone is super busy, especially when we work in this, um, multinational corporation.

When one person responsible for multiple countries, the same on the sales side, channel side and on the engineering side as well. So engineer and people, and their management, they actually want to understand. Where the time is spent. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Uh, everyone actually as a metric has sales. It's not the time spent. It is basically that the deals and the dollar closed.

Yeah. Dmytro: Mm-hmm. Olha: So each functions whom be involved in the process, they want to understand actually what's the deal value and what the probability that the deal will be closed. Dmytro: Mm-hmm.

Olha: 'cause no one actually wants to work on something that is just, uh, uh, satisfying customer's interest. Yeah. Dmytro: Mm-hmm. Olha: And unfortunately.

A lot of leads that are coming or even sometimes active opportunities, they're not real. Mm-hmm. It just, we are satisfying as a sales, we are forced. We are satisfying someone's interest.

And second, with this easy to be busy concept, we basically. We think that we, we are doing something. We think that we are contributing, we are aiding value to the company, but as a result, we like, first we are draining ourself and the second the company doesn't see the results. Yeah, because it's the, the sometimes what we see that the deals that sales person is working for like months.

It drops at the very last moment. Mm-hmm. And uh, the cell says, oh no, we will just like unlucky, something has happened, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But usually if you will go back to the deal and twist, and we are doing this actually inside the companies the regular process.

But when we analyze the deal and we analyze what happened, we can actually see that there were a certain Rod FL that we missed. Yeah. And they consciously own unconsciously. Again, because when salespeople, they see that they have 15 leads they're working on, they think that it's perfect.

Right? I have like so many customers, I'm gonna meet my number. It's this 15 people, 15 companies, 15 leads or, or, or, or whatever. Dmytro: Everybody's saying that they're interested.

Yeah. So it, this is one thing is, uh, that, uh, you are contracting a client and the client says that we're not interested. So then this is like a. Uh, very obvious red flag.

So not to proceed there. Uh, but, uh, in most cases they're not, either they do not answer negatively or they are like taking their time to, uh, think about that. And, uh, it can be very long, especially in, in this, uh, long, uh, in this. Complex products, deal sales cycles are very long.

So you can be lost in this, uh, deal talking, meeting, uh, wasting your time actually. Uh, but, uh, you say that, uh, there is a, uh, methodology or or approach how to identify this red flags beforehand. Olha: Yeah, absolutely. Let, let, let me just, uh, I'll come to this, uh, uh, actually, thank you for bringing up this.

Interested, not interested that, that's actually, um. The worst thing that I can hear, it's the customer is interested or not interested because as you mentioned, uh, before, the customer is not a one person. So usually when I hear back from, from from a partner, the customer is not interested. My first question is, who, Dmytro: who is the customer?

Olha: Who on the customer side? Not just who is the customer? Because we basically, we can discard a certain company, but who on the customer side is actually not interested? Who is this person?

What's his role? What's his responsibility? So why actually we are con, uh, like are we actually sure that we are contacting the right person? The same with this interesting thing.

Yeah. Like who is the person, what is her responsibility? Um, does he have any authority in the company? What's he or she?

Yeah. Like with whom are we dealing? Yeah. And when we speak about Interesting.

What is this? Interesting. Yeah. I mean, if you look, uh, even like if you look on our, at our, our own behavior when we are buying things for us.

Yeah. So you go to the shop, it's not that like you are interested in apples, right? Mm-hmm. You just, uh, have some other ideas like what this interesting mean to you.

Yeah. Or like yeah. Dmytro: You're solving your, your, uh, exactly. Prior task you.

Mm-hmm. Olha: Maybe, you want to do the, the apple pie? Yeah. Dmytro: Yeah.

Olha: That, that's why you need apples. Yeah. Or maybe you think that apple is a good snack for you, just like to, to for your kids, to, to school for kids. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. If someone will, in the, this store will see, say like, you know what, this is the, the new recipe for the plum.

Pie. Yeah. Mm. Then, and, and there are plums, so maybe you'll, you will go for plums if you want to do the pie.

Dmytro: Mm-hmm. Olha: But if you want a snack, then you will not go for the plum, whatever you can say. And the question is like, are you interested in plums? Yeah, yeah, sure.

Like, yeah, I'm interested in, in plums. Yeah. So can you, and then the per the person will tell you like, for an hour, what are the, the plan. But you have in your mind that you have basic, you, you need a snack.

For your kids, right? Dmytro: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Olha: You'll not give plums because then this plum will be all over the backpack.

Dmytro: Yeah. Olha: The the same. And, and, and this is like what's basically right now coming to this, to this qualification. So yeah.

That, that's what we do on the, on the qualification as well, like trying to understand. Basically who is interested or not interested? Is it the, the right person? Dmytro: Mm-hmm.

Olha: And what does this mean? What the, what is like lying underneath this, like interested or not interested? Dmytro: What's the real need behind that? Olha: Yeah.

What the real, what the real need. But even before they actually looking on the real need. And if you look for instance, on the lead sites. Yeah.

Because that, that's where the whole process actually start. Start from the lead. So leads can be, the marketing can bring lead. Or like in our case, sometimes partners are bringing some leads or we are the salespeople, we are doing some lead generation through the like linking emails.

Whatever we will not discuss. Does it work with or doesn't work that like, I think that's absolutely different topics. Dmytro: Mm-hmm. Olha: Mm-hmm.

So let's imagine we have this leads. So the first thing that we and lead is what? Lead is actually a person. Dmytro: Yeah.

Yeah. Olha: Think what people, what, what Most of the people they actually, um, maybe fail to recognize is too strong, but that's actually what happening and they, they do not really, uh, consider that lead is a person. It's not a company. Dmytro: And not even a role in the company Olha: and not even a role in the company, I think.

Mm-hmm. Not even a role in the company that's a person and person has, um, he's or they, whatever. Yeah. That, that's own first role descriptions.

The, uh, the thing that's like, must be done and the second, some personal. Things. Yeah. So sometimes when LEAD says, I'm interested, maybe this lead wants to, uh, enhance his, your own knowledge.

Yeah. Yeah. That, that, that might be the case. And then the first thing that's like looking on the, on the lead, on the person who is coming, of course, like the first candidate should be about, about this person.

What's his role? What's his role in the company? Uh, what are the interests? What responsibilities?

So what we are basically trying to achieve, we're trying to understand if this person is the champion. When I say champion, I'm actually now using abbreviation from the, it's actually self qualification methodological. It's now, it's like a plane operations. Yeah.

It's like MEDDIC, MEDDPICC. Yeah. It's just like the depend on, um, how granular we want to be. So when we look at the lead what we need to understand the person.

Dmytro: May I, uh, come back a bit to this abbreviation? So you, uh, because the, the, the, when I, when I teach, uh, and when I see somebody's teaching in business, they use a lot of abbreviations and they use the frameworks and, um, learners, they, they think that this is some, some kind of magical, uh, bullet or magical wand that, uh, you can use on it. It'll work. Uh, so just, uh, as a disclaimer.

Uh, you can use abbreviations and framework just to easily remember the, um, methodology, but not, uh, as a full instruction. And you mentioned, uh, this, uh, abbreviation that is called Met Peak. Yeah. So, yeah, I, I will then add.

Uh, in description of the episode, I will add how it is written and, uh, some abbreviation details as well. Oh, Olha: oh, yeah, please. Yeah, you're actually right. We usually, we have so many abbreviation that sometimes it, we have, like, this is A, B, c, done through x, y that, and when I ask, okay, what's a, B, c, the replace?

Yeah. Like, how can you, you know, it's, uh, that double like explain one observations or another one, it doesn't make it clear. Dmytro: What, what I like is that, uh, when, when two it, so the IT person from software meets the IT person from hardware and they use the same abbreviations, but with totally different meaning thinking that, that they understand each other. Olha: The, this perfect example, it's for infrastructure.

Mm. ' cause for software guy and for hardware guy infrastructure, there's like totally different things. Dmytro: And for architect is the third one. Olha: Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. So, or like yesterday I saw on the slides, reation, you see, and it's not like you see unified communications guys. What do you mean by that? Of course, of course.

And this. No. Uc is use case. Dmytro: Mm.

Or or just you see. You can see that. Yeah. Not hear .

Olha: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Okay. So that, that's point.

Take it. MEDDPICC, uh, MEDDPICC is the sales qualification methodology again. Um. You, it's not a sales process.

Yeah. sales process is basically how you move your lead from the lead stage, uh, up to the closure. Mm-hmm. Me is something that you can check, you can use to check on each stage how healthy is the deal.

Yeah. So basically what's their, uh, probability that the deal will be closed. Dmytro: Mm-hmm. Olha: So, "M" um, state for metrics "E" that's, uh, economical buyer, uh, two "D" is decision criteria and decision process.

Dmytro: Mm. Olha: Then, uh, sometimes there is a "P" so it can be meant the MEDDPICC or MEDDICC. Mm-hmm. If there is a "P" that's a paper process is actually part of the decision process.

Um mm-hmm. "I" stand stands for identified pain variations. Might be one "C" might mean, um, uh, one "C" always actually means uh, champion, but double "C" champion and competition. Dmytro: Mm-hmm.

Okay. Olha: Um, yeah, so that, that, that, that's about that. Um. When we start working on On a lead.

On any lead. So the first and lead is a person. Yeah. And champion the person.

So the first actually qualification, what we need to look into is that, is this person, is, this person can be potentially my champion. Dmytro: And who is the champion? What, what, what is the description of the champion? Olha: So champion is the person who ac the simplest one is like, if you think about it, this is the person who sells on your behalf in the company.

Dmytro: Mm-hmm. So she, he, he or she is so interested in, uh, and needs your product that, uh, they like help you to, uh, promote it, uh, internally. Olha: And they, yeah, this is correct. And they actually have authority to do this, Dmytro: Uhhuh.

Okay, so, so this is important. This is important. Olha: This is important. Yeah.

So this is important. Mm-hmm. Sometimes there might be some person who really thinks that the solution or or service that's, that you are offering. It'll do good for a company.

Let, let's not use, uh, word interest. Yeah. That, that's this mm-hmm. Solution will basically satisfy their need.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Uh, but, and this person, he's or she genuinely tries to help, but because this person has no authority, basically no one listens to him or. Then it just, uh, it's a coach.

Yeah. So this, these people, they're still very useful. Mm-hmm. Because these people, they can tell you, actually, they can tell you how companies making decision, what might be, because they are not, uh, they cannot set the, the decision criteria, but they might be able to tell you what are the decision criteria.

Mm-hmm. They're Dmytro: like information source. Olha: They like information sources. Mm-hmm.

They, you can, due to them, you can, um, uncover some other letters in the metric. Yes. So sometime they will be able to give you some information, basically how to do the business case. Mm-hmm.

But they are not strong enough to promote, to really promote you inside the company. So sometimes they're not strong enough even to introduce you to someone, but they can tell you the name to whom with whom you should meet. So again, we are starting like looking and delete and let the person, so the first thing is actually to qualify if this person can be a potential, uh. Potential champion.

Yeah, no one is champion from the start. Um, we need to grow, we need to work with the person to understand the, his, his power in the company, uh, own, uh, pain or own need that this solution of service will satisfy and how this person will be a, a really, uh, if this person will be really push us forward. So that's would be the, that would be the, the, the first one. Dmytro: Mm-hmm.

Olha: Um, the second one would be, and again, sometime like there are discussions, like what's the first yeah? Like champion or, or, or pain. From my perspective, we all come from people. So champion would, would be the first year, because then if person contacts you or if he replied so she rep applies to the message, then probably there is some pain that this company is trying to address.

Dmytro: Mm-hmm. And, and moreover, even if I think that, well, correct me if I'm wrong, it might be so that, uh, even if there is no pain in the company right now, uh, for your product, but you have a champion, then when this pain appears in the future, then this champion will come to you first. Olha: Yes, but honestly I don't believe that there is no pain in the company. So if this person, if, if it's just, yeah, it just the matter of is this, uh, pain, is it on already on the company's conscious level?

Mm-hmm. So are they really actively trying to solve it? Or it's, uh, company's bothered by something. Yeah.

So there is actually a need, so there is a pain. It just, it was never qualified. Yeah. Dmytro: Mm-hmm.

Olha: It was never quantified as well. So that's why, again, jumping a little bit, bit, uh, forward or maybe even to the, some, some other time, that's why we need metrics because we need. Quantify, um, the pain. Dmytro: Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Olha: But yes, even if the, uh, but yes, if you build the person, the, the champion, if you build a strong connection, then this person will, uh, will come back to you because they will know that, that, that something, something is going on. Dmytro: Mm-hmm. Olha: And, but you know, there is a kind of like disadvantage to that because sometimes the people approach other people just to learn.

Mm-hmm. Just to gather some information. To, as you just mentioned, just when or if something appear that they are prepared. Dmytro: Mm-hmm.

So they, they can use you as a teacher in, in fact, yes. Mm-hmm. Yes. So free, free, free teacher for Olha: free teacher.

Yeah. So, mm-hmm. So you think you are working on a deal? Mm-hmm.

But in fact it just, someone is gathering information. Dmytro: Yeah. It may be also for. Uh, for example, they have, uh, tender.

Yeah. And, uh, they need, uh, some additional player to play on tender, but, uh, some, somebody else is already winning. So they just using you to, to be this, um, uh, additional player. Olha: Player second offer.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because they, they just, or second thought or whatever offer, just like, just in case maybe, maybe they're not using you, maybe they're genuinely interested to understand maybe there is something else on the market that. Might fit better. But yeah, if, uh, in the bid, if, um, I, I, uh, still, yeah.

That, that's again this discussion. Yeah. If RF is out, should the company apply or not? I still think that they should, but they, they should actually go back and try to do the qualification.

You try to really understand what's the real pain, what company's trying to solve, what are the decision criteria, so then there. RFP Answer, they will actually fit to what the customer wants to see. Dmytro: This is, this is a really good point, and, and, and I, I think that this is also the mistake that people do when they sell. Uh, they are so glad that they've got this, uh, request for a proposal and that, that they're rushing to apply for that, uh, answering the questions of the client.

Uh. Uh, in some, uh, in most cases is not correct, so you, you need to go to the client again or first time before sending the RFP and maybe, uh, you can even influence the client so that they will change the questions. Olha: That's a, yeah. In, Dmytro: in this rfp, Olha: there is a possibility.

Yes. Mm-hmm. So, yeah, of course. I, I totally agree.

Just like answering the RFP, um, it, it just time consuming and the, if you think, if you think about the time it takes to answer and the probability to win, it, it, it's, it, it. It honestly, it doesn't force it. Yeah. Dmytro: Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. It's Olha: like really low probability that someone who just like got the invitation for RFP will want it, will win it without understanding what's actually going on. Yeah. So, uh, the situations are different.

If public, uh, company issued RFP, then it's. It's tricky to try to connect with them, but it's still possible. Yeah. There is still will be process with questions and answers.

Yeah. At least to ask some que qualification and clarification questions, which might even stimulate some thinking process on the customer side. Yeah. Isn't this really what, what they need?

Dmytro: Mm-hmm. But Olha: even if they still know what they need. Yeah. Then again, then you can prepare your offer better and they, they, it's like just increasing cha chances.

Dmytro: Yeah. Yeah. Even in formulation of, uh, the same answer. Yes.

Even using, uh, correct words that, uh, the client will understand. Olha: Oh, exactly. And especially like, look, just don't forget that we are all in AI error. Mm-hmm.

So I could actually, I could easily imagine that's, uh, if it's multiple RFP response, so that some might want to use AI just to check if it's something that fits their A RP, right? Mm-hmm. And then it's all matter, all this, uh. Words.

Yeah, yeah, Dmytro: yeah. How they will, what, what, what are the, the key words? They, uh, they were, they will look for? Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. So the, we, we have stopped on at pain identification. Yes.

Pain Olha: identification. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So basically when, when we look on the lead, so we starting to see if this person has some, uh, can be champions or has some, uh, some authority.

And what's the pain? And, uh, pain is something that we really need to stop and to dig deeper, deeper, deeper, and deeper. Again, looking into the pain, it's, uh, I will use pain, like real pain. Yeah.

Because sometimes the customer says, oh, you know what we need, I, I, I'm come from it, so I will use some, some it example they need, oh, you know what? We need extra storage. Just give us the proposal for whatever the, the capacity and then some specifications. So the correct question is like, go guys, why do you need the extra storage?

What type of data will be there? What, what you're trying to achieve. Mm-hmm. So what, what are they?

Do they need the they to store compliance? Are they launching UAT systems? And then you can actually shape, you can even propose some, maybe some other type of the storage, not, not the one that they originally requested. Or you can say like, okay, look guys, actually if you need the storage for this specific case, maybe let's look with you, with you to move into cloud.

Yeah. Or maybe let's, um, maybe let's use something else. Dmytro: I have quick, uh, example that I had in my product, maybe a bit more clear for non-IT guys. Just recently I've got the request to make the, um, training in sales, uh, and in negotiations, corporate training.

And then of course I asked why. So why do you need it? And, and then we, um, started to dig deeper and understanding the whole sales cycle. Uh, who is the client, uh, and what do they sell?

What is the product, what is the value proposition? And then how do they do it, how they, uh, generate leads, et cetera. And it appeared that the problem is not that the salespeople are bad in sales or negotiations, but in, uh, the um. Product itself.

So the product does not meet, uh, the, uh, uh, request of their clients. And, and at the end I said that you don't need the training for negotiations for your salespeople, which was kind of a bad for me. So I did not sell the, the training. But on the other hand, I, I did not sell the training that would not.

Uh, solve the problem. Yeah. So that's, um, another stuff. Yes.

I do not lose the time for this client because they actually do not need my product. Olha: Exactly. And you know what? You didn't, it's not that it's turned out, but for you, you, you would never, ever solve it because at some point they will.

So Exactly. So they come to you like saying, we need a training for the salespeople. So if it wasn't you, but someone else, so the person would what, like make an offer, right? Dmytro: Mm-hmm.

Olha: And, and then the offer will go to the company and it'll sit on someone's table for, for days, for weeks. Because be because they actually, subconsciously they know that they don't need the sales training. They know that the issue is somewhere different. So they know that it'll not solve the issue.

Yeah. And when the product, service, or whatever doesn't solve the issue, it's always what? Too expensive, right? Because we say the things are too expensive.

Only when we don't see the value. So when the, they actually, the inconveniences of on, on our side, on the customer side, they actually less than the price that they need to pay to sell them. Dmytro: Exactly. Exactly.

Olha: So that's another actually good point. Speaking, uh, speaking about the pain and identifying for pain to understand actually how, um, how big is the pain? Yeah. Dmytro: Mm-hmm.

Olha: Are they really suffering or it just good to have? Yeah. So it, no, you didn't actually lose the deal. The deal was never there.

Dmytro: Exactly. It Olha: was the perception the deal was there. Uh, Dmytro: by the way, so when do you ask for the budget? Olha: Uh, that's a, that's, that's a question.

That's a good question. It, it depends to be honest. Um, for me, what's actually the most important is to really qualify paying first. Qualify and quantify to see actually what are their financial implications on the current pain.

Dmytro: Mm-hmm. Olha: Because then it's actually, it's, uh, simultaneously just justify the, uh, the price. And if the pain is strong enough, if it, um, actually cost company like a feasible amount of money, then they, they can allocate extra budget. Dmytro: You will not having the one, uh, in place, Olha: even not, not having the one, um, coming back to leads.

Yeah. If the lead description says this company is looking to do this project, uh, with a, some, like 3, 4, 6 months in this case. Yeah. It'll not hurt to say, okay guys, if you're planning on this project.

Yeah. Like, do you have, um, any budget allocated to this? Yeah. And if you don't mind, maybe you can share the, the budget.

And again, here it's, um. The, there might be like several options. Yeah. For instance, they might say, yeah, you know what, we actually looking to do this project and we have allocated 20 k.

Mm-hmm. And your project is like 200, 200 K. Mm-hmm. At, at, at, at minimum.

Yeah. I wouldn't, uh, honestly, I, I wouldn't, um, bother them again because something which they al like they already have a price tag in their mind. Dmytro: So every everything, uh, uh, 10 times bigger would be, uh, impossible for them. Yeah.

To, to, to accept. Olha: Exactly. If it's, uh, like a few times bigger, then yes, then we can come back, uh, find pain, uh, to create a business pain. But yeah, again, um, the budget, and that's why I not always add this, this upfront, be just not to be discouraged.

Mm-hmm. But this is important question, um, because again, so for not to, not to waste time. Okay. It might be structured differently.

Like when you identify the pain, you can actually ask, okay, so do you actually, is it, is it big enough for a company so you can actually, uh, are you actually ready to solve it? Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's one of the, I think in our, uh, sales.

Yeah. We have this question in ourselves. Uh, methodology. Is it actually, are you the, a customer?

Are you actually ready to solve this pain? Dmytro: Mm-hmm. Olha: But again, it matters whom to ask this question. So to ask the question, and we are now looking on the letter "E" economical buyer.

That's person who actually can, um. Use who has like, um, funds at his discretion or discretion. So who can actually say, yes, we, yeah, this is the pain. Mm-hmm.

Yes, I will find money to solve it. Dmytro: Can it be that the champion and economic buyer is one person? Olha: Oh, the, they should be, uh, the thing is that the champion is not a one person. You build the net then the champ, the champion's network.

Yeah. Uhhuh, uh, if the champion is one person, you is at risk as well because people are people, someone is working for the company, doing their best to solve this issues, um, whatever. And then that, uh, like contra offer come, come and person leaves. Yeah.

And that's, hmm. That's, and we had the situation in the past when, and it all looked amazing. Yeah. So there was a champion, we identified that the processes, like everything was, was in place, but salesperson didn't work with anyone else in, in the company.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. And this, this person leaves. Even, even though we had a confirmation from economical buyer that they needed the person who was driving the project left and the economical buyer, like, yeah, but who will do it now?

Yeah, that's, yeah. The, the pain is still there. Mm-hmm. But now we need to implement some organizational changes mm-hmm.

To understand like, who will. And again, pain might be, can be solved by different ways. Yeah. Dmytro: Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Olha: So this project was , this personal driving, uh, um, uh, us here to solve the pain. Then the new person comes, if he failed to build him, like really because the champion, he might come with his own idea how to solve the issue. And with his own people who championed him on this previous workplace.

Yeah. That, that's what you say. That's, yeah. That's if you do good job, uh, connecting the person and building the champion, then they will call you even when the opportunity appears.

Dmytro: Okay, so, so this, this letters, uh, what, what, what we had, uh, we had, uh, champion, we had, um, "I" for identify pain. Then we had metrics to understand, uh, uh, what is the quantifiable , uh, things in this pain. Uh, then we had, uh, economical buyer who pays for that. Um, all all that stuff.

Is it enough to understand whether the lead is, uh, worse, uh, going further or not? Olha: Oh, for lead, there's too much already. So on the lead stage or when it's a lead, that's, uh, again, if what we need to understand, uh, the role of the person. So if he can be potential champion and his interest.

Mm-hmm. Okay. That's basically if he has the, some, some need and, uh, get the idea of the, of the pain. So if you have a champion and if you have the pain, then we can move lead.

To the next and next stages. Dmytro: Mm-hmm. Olha: Basically, economical buyer, it appears on the further stages of the sales process. Yeah.

Dmytro: Mm-hmm. Olha: Uh, metrics and pain quantification, it all appears later. So on the lead level, it's lead leading champion because it's highly unlikely. That's economical buyer will be your lead generated by marketing.

Mm-hmm. Or by anyone else , highly unlikely. Dmytro: And then I, uh, so the, the pain identified, uh, champion identified, and then we can say that the lead is qualified. Yes.

Yeah. And we can, um, invest more time, uh, to develop that. Olha: Yes. And then we can say that this is a qualified, uh, this is already like this is a qualified opportunity.

Yes. So then mm-hmm. We work with the lead. It's now a qualified opportunity.

Let's look and let's work from the opportunity. Like let's look on this opportunity from the sales process and apply sales process to understand. So what's, okay, so the first would be then qualification. Yeah.

So then we do what like. Then we qualifying already, like opportunity. Then we're starting to, to the pain. We're starting to get an idea.

What are the decision criterias? Um, can we impact them, who we need to impact them? And then basically moving it to, to like proposal and later, later, later, later, like up to the closing, Dmytro: it looks like, uh, we have more to talk about that, uh, to, uh, understand how to move the lead after the qualification to the closure. Uh, thank you Olha.

This, this was really interesting conversation and I enjoyed that, uh, a lot. Uh, and I hope that, uh, I will see you again, uh, in the show and we can talk further about, uh, complex sales in complex, uh, clients. Olha: Absolutely. Thank you for having me.

Yeah, and looking forward to the next episode. Dmytro: Special thanks to all listeners who made it so far. And if you'd like this episode and you would like to get more insights on international expansion, please subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss the next episode.