Turning Buyer Attention Into Action

Speaker A: Sam.

Speaker B: Mhm. Sa. Mhm. High Level is a full CRM and marketing platform and I've used some of the best in the SaaS industry.

Speaker C: Sam.

Speaker B: Uh, What's that about? We are live on LinkedIn, YouTube, Facebook, Twitch, NX. It's a revengs Wednesday. Welcome to Wednesday revenue party, people. We've got the hot topics, hot prizes and hot guests. And I have the really hot relevant mug. I wish you could do like a little mirror thing, but it says you're on mute and I started this episode on mute. Um, but anyway, if you're tuning in, we'd love to hear from you. This conversation is for you, our audience. So let us know. What do you do for a living? Where are you tuning in from? We've got, um, someone in Florida. Ah, where else are you from? I'm in Ohio, but we want to hear from the audience as we get started. But you know, it wouldn't be Wednesday if I didn't tell you about some tech tools before we get started. So of course I have to tell you about Streamyard and this is the one that like surprises me. People really actually do sign up on this affiliate link. Um, and you know what we do here at Revening is we help businesses go live on LinkedIn and YouTube. But if you don't need it done for you, you can do it for yourself. We are using Streamyard to go live on tonight and this is an awesome tool because it allows us to be creative. We can upload videos, we can simulcast to multiple channels. Super cool. Just scan that QR code and you'll be on our affiliate link. I'd be happy to help you if you end up deciding to sign up because I get a little cut. Um, so yeah, give me a call, let us know. Also, I want to tell you about High Level. It's a tool that we use here internally. We've like fully adopted it. We don't just use it for ourselves. We've white labeled it. It's app.reviting.com for us and we give it to our clients as well. So they have a full service CRM and marketing automation platform. So when they get started with Reviting, we can help them capture their leads, we can help them send their marketing emails, create web forms, all those things. It's just already there. So yeah, it's an agency platform as well. We have multiple accounts within ours. And if you're listening on podcast, just go to Reviting.comHigh Level for our affiliate link there. And it's also on the screen as A QR code if you're watching. But enough of that, let's get into our topics for tonight. Um, but you know, of course before we do get into our really hot topics because they're going to go from the top of the funnel to the bottom of the funnel, I want to bring in our really experienced guests who are going to like, they're going to lead the conversation here. I'm going to be in the background just asking questions. Because if you went and you checked out our guests today on LinkedIn, you know, and you saw what they posted about and this is going to be a really great conversation. So if you haven't done that yet, go find them on LinkedIn, check out their post, and let's get into it. Welcome to the show. Bianca and Kevin, thank you so much for being here.

Speaker D: Thank you so much. It's so nice to see you all.

Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. So great to be here. So let's um, get started. Um, we've got two minutes. We're going to put up on the clock and we'd like to know your full life story from birth to what brought you to now in two minutes. Kevin, can you kick us off?

Speaker C: Sure, let's do it. So, hi everybody. Kevin Andriowski, Uh, born and raised in Jersey, uh, always sails, you know, started my own boat company, you name it. Always hustling, always bringing value. Um, got into sales about 15 years ago, tech sales, enterprise sales in New York, uh, you know, working with Salesforce, Thompson, Reuters, you name it. Very large strategic, um, deals. And outside of that, you know, always being in sales, I, I'm always grinding and leveling up my game. So being in New Jersey, being by the Jersey shore, you know, surfing and then challenging myself. I had a friend of mine who said, hey, you need more out of life. So I got into triathlons. So three time Ironman over here. And with that comes, you know, making a decision, planning and executing. Bring that to business as well. So for me it's just fun showing people a new way to do things, value, um, in business, personal life, you know. Now I live down in Florida and great to, thanks Andrew. Uh, nice to meet you as well. Thanks for joining, uh, live down in Florida because I love the warm weather. I'm um, done with cold weather and uh, for me it's just, I'm consulting these days, you know, helping businesses because everybody's trying to learn AI, figure out AI and um, we're just showing them the pathway of how to do things easier. Uh, but yeah, that's, that's that's a little bit about me. You know, big outdoors, love adventure, love documentaries and just love helping people. And I'm really excited to be here tonight to uh, you know, bring some value to people and you know, they could take action with the stuff we're going to talk about. So thanks for having me and yeah, very excited to be here.

Speaker B: And you have your ukulele.

Speaker C: I do.

Speaker B: Neon green.

Speaker C: I love the uk. It's fun.

Speaker B: I mean, while you're on stage, can you just tell us a little bit more about that?

Speaker C: So the, the Pandemic hit. I always wanted to play an instrument and I bought a ukulele and just started going like, just practicing on YouTube. There's a lot of free resources out there and I always say just be resourceful. And that was what, six years ago now? And every morning I play the UK as part of my meditation practice and has opened up different conversations. I play Happy Birthday all my friends and anybody who ever needs a Happy Birthday song, they're personalized. So it's a lot of fun and it just brings me joy. Uh, just uh, a nice way to just chill and, and relax as I start my day and also in the evening.

Speaker B: So yes, awesome. Um, I love that. All right, we'll switch gears over to you, Bianca. We want to learn more about you and your full life story from birth to what brought you to now in two minutes.

Speaker D: Jesse, that's a lot of pressure to give you my whole life story in two minutes, but I'll do my best. Um, so yeah, I'm Bianca. I actually have a very multicultural background. I'm half Polish, half, uh, Chilean. I was born in Sweden and I also lived in ten different countries, uh, throughout my life. And I speak five languages fluently. Uh, and I think I'm a linguistics major. Um, uh, so I think that's how my sort of my passion, my maybe even obsession with communication started and where it came from. Um, my, I started my career actually in a huge corporation, you know, selling hardware, selling motherboards and SSDs. But corporate life was absolutely not for me. I didn't feel like there was any sort of like impact, not the kind of impact that I wanted to make. So I changed into startups and I've been working in startups and mid market companies ever, ever since and based in Germany, based in the United States. Um, uh, and you know in startups you basically touch every part of marketing. So you know, product marketing and community. Uh, I was actually once just handed a community of like 20,000 active contributors developers for like a dev company and was just like, okay, like that's a huge, huge community. Um, so yeah, uh, mostly B2B SaaS. Um, and right now at the moment I run product marketing and events at, at Chili Piper. So yeah, that's, that's me. And also I can very much relate to Kevin. About what he said that like he was sick of, uh, the cold and moved to a warmer place. That's exactly what I did. Um, and I've successfully avoided winter for about 10 years now.

Speaker B: Nice. I wish I could say the same, but yeah, I've had some cold winters here in Ohio. Um, yeah, and I met Bianca actually in person. I don't normally get to meet Wednesday guests in person, but we did meet at Chile Palooza, which was an awesome event. And yeah, that. Yeah, yeah, I don't know, like we're

Speaker D: uh, running the next one probably like next next year. So I hope you can join us as well. It's, it's a really cool event for gtm. I'm actually, I've been researching locations this year. Uh, maybe Arizona or maybe Montana. I don't know. Like we are, we're playing around with a few ideas, like just, you know, a special location.

Speaker B: Mhm. Montana. That could be interesting. Okay, cool. Well, let's get into these hot topics and people in the audience, we want to hear from you. If anyone's there on our Wednesday night here, let us know your thoughts on being found beyond traditional SEO and audiences. We're getting into this topic. Let's ask Kevin to kick us off on it. Kevin, can you do so?

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. And this is a good one. It's funny because I, I literally was talking about this, uh, this morning with a, a client who everybody's just talking about, you know, AI and how I want to be ranked on Google and Google, uh, I don't want to say SEO is dead. Um, but now everybody, you know, they're using your LLMs, so your large language models, uh, whether it's Gemini, Claude, uh, Grok, um, open, you know, chat, GPT, you name it. Uh, so you want to be found there and everybody you talk about like Answer engine optimization, so aeo. And if you figure out the aeo, the SEO will take care of itself and you know, Google ranks, but you'll be AI repeats, you know, reputation. So what does that mean? So if I'm a company today, you know, um, you'll be able to, you know, you could search, go to open Claude and you could say like, okay, type in your company if you don't show up, what sources show up there, and that's where you want to focus. So you put a plan around that. You know, after that it's really having an FAQ in real language, not using AI and then the third party, uh, referrals, so your reviews, you know, doing podcasts like this, that information really waits in the AI algorithm. So that's going to help you when people are searching, you know, for whatever company. And it's all about like having a clear brand. So whether you're on LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook, whatever it might be, make sure the messaging is spot on. Like, keep it simple, but make sure it's all accurate and all the same because that helps with the search. And then you want to specify your niche. So if you are in, uh, sales, you know, what type of sales, who are you focused on? Uh, I, you know, the, what guy we were talking to today, he's focused on, you know, with dentists, but he's specific as it relates to, uh, dental surgery, you know, in a specific region. So being specific, you know, having a clear brand message, having that third party, those reviews and everything else, you know, the faq, keeping those simple and then, you know, finding those sources, if you're not popping up, somebody else is and putting a plan and going, you know, down to that path, uh, that's going to really help you with the aeo. And then the SEO will take care of itself.

Speaker B: Definitely.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: Kevin, do you think that there's like two distinct strategies that companies need to have these days? Uh, like one for like the traditional SEO still and one for ao, or do you think those are basically the same? Like, I love asking this question because people are just like, you know, giving me vastly different answers to this and I, and I love to stir the pot.

Speaker C: Yeah, agree. Yeah, no, that it's, yeah, great question. So I would say yes. Right, because you always like. Because there's a lot of folks who like, I think the stat is like less than 2% are using like AI and they don't know how to use it. And everybody's in like, um, in pilots, but they're not really using it. So the traditional still works with the SEO. But then it's like I always tell people like, baby steps and just start testing the aeo, so leveraging it and then from there it's like putting a plan together towards that aeo and, and two is always better than one, um, and focusing there. But it's like having somebody who actually knows the steps and going back to my ironman Days decide plan, execute. That's what you're putting together. It's like making a decision and then putting a plan in place and spending if it takes an extra day to week and do baby steps and always have those KPIs behind it because it's about the numbers and the data to make sure you're on the right path.

Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's for sure a little bit tricky these days now with, oh, it's changing much more with, with less right?

Speaker C: Like oh, and everybody's like, and yeah, everybody's like I want to use AO or excuse me, like AI. And it's like well what does that mean? And like what do you really need? And just like really spending the time, the planning, like that's where I spend the majority of time when I'm talking with clients is like the plan and the outcomes, like that's what it is. And like spending focusing time there of having that plan because it's easy to set stuff up but it's like the execution, uh, that's where you want to spend the time.

Speaker B: Definitely. All good stuff. Thank you both for drilling into this and yes, um, great topics. We did give a lot of really great questions too. So before I get into any of my comments, I want to make sure some of what AP is asking gets answered. He's asking how is AI SEO changing things? Who's using AI to look stuff up and why?

Speaker D: Why does everyone. Sorry, can, can I just answer that? That one because ah, it's everyone, right? Like we like uh, even if you're not, I mean I, I work mostly with like buyers, B2B buyers that are using solutions like Cloud and ChatGPT to already look up stuff.

Speaker B: Stuff.

Speaker D: Right. Like they don't go to Google anymore, they are using cloud. So but they are let's say like the most advanced folks uh, who are, who are doing this. But I think everyone even like uh, uh, you know, like the demographic of maybe people that are not tech savvy at all, they get the AI overviews right? Like they probably won't click into a specific page anymore like they used to. They're going to see that overview and they're going to be satisfied with that answer and just learn and move on. Right. So I think we can just safely assume that everyone is uh, like this whole world is like AI forward now and we just need to uh, adapt. So that's why like what we feed into those uh, uh, what we feed those LLMs and what information about us, we, we, we feed them is, is like so, so important right now. And it's a little bit like uh, the old days of like social media algorithms that we sort of, you know, we sort of get used to one way of. Okay, if we do this thing this way, then we'll be successful in, you know, in, in the AI game. But that's going to change in a month again, right? Like the, the algorithm is going to change the how, how to be successful and, and AIO is going to change and we need to re. Relearn.

Speaker B: So. Yeah, definitely.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: So a couple more really great questions. So the difference between AEO and geo, I'm curious if you would change your strategy for someone who had more of an online business or an in person business model more. No, let's take that one.

Speaker C: Yeah, I would say the strategy is the same because you just want to be found, you know, and as Bianca was saying, it's like people are using it left and right, like just chatting with it. Um, so no, it's, it's just making sure you have like the brand, the reviews. I would say if I was going to pick one, it would be those reviews. Because as we, you know, with Google reviews, you check everything. You go to a new town, you want to see the reviews. Um, so getting that, the AI will source that. So it's the same.

Speaker B: Anything you'd add?

Speaker D: Um, Bianca, I don't have much experience with like in person businesses. I live in like the B2B SaaS world where everything is, is, is online. Uh, but, but I would also, uh, agree with that sentiment.

Speaker B: Um, absolutely. Well, let's get into our next topic. Moving down the funnel a little bit. So they've been found beyond SEO, um, and they've landed on your website. Lucky you. So websites that convert the AI buyer. Can you kick us off with what you know here? Your post was super interesting today, Bianca.

Speaker D: Yeah, for sure. Um, so, so yeah, considering that like the world of like how people get information is changing. Right. Like people are not um, going to your websites anymore, I think that there was a stat that I saw that it's. If there's an AI overview and let's say someone Google something and there's an AI overview that comes up, people won't click anymore. Right. Like it's, it's, it's natural, it's obvious. I, I certainly don't click on blog posts or websites. I don't care about any blog post of, of any company, honestly. Sorry. Um, but I think the, you know, so, um, so since we're as buyers learning in A very, very different way. Um, the websites needs to be different, right? It, it has a different role. Now before buyers would go to your website to actually learn and understand what does the product do, what can I do? Right? Like what's the industry like? They would try to understand what it is that you're selling and, and what it is uh, that, that they can help you with. Um, but now websites are not informing is not enough anymore. Websites need to convert, right? So the moment a lead um, you know, just lands, you need to do everything to convert them, right? Like I, um, you know, from my experience with Chili Piper, you know we work a lot with, with companies that want to get people to booked meetings, booked demos. Um, and there's I think like two different sets of levers that we actually have control over as marketers. You know, I'm, I'm, I'm here from a marketing perspective. I think one is speed. So how fast we actually um, respond to qualified ah, visitors, like how fast we can get them to a meeting, right? So maybe you know, someone fills out a uh, form and then they get a thank you message like they want to contact you, right? Like they want to have a meeting with you. They already filled out the form. But then it takes, you know, an actual person reaching out to them probably the next business day, uh, and trying to schedule a meeting that will happen a few days later. This is where you basically get drop offs. How fast you get to people, uh, matters a lot. And the second lever I'd say is effort. Make it as easy as possible for your leads to actually get to where they want. Uh, uh, maybe an example would be um, when they try uh, to schedule ah, a meeting, um, maybe you should offer them you know like a scheduling that gives them like maximum right there in the form, right after they fill out the form, give them a scheduling widget that gets them to a meeting that is like they can set up at the time they prefer with all the options, right? We live in such an AI forward world that this is not hard anymore. This is really not hard anymore. And we should all be working on like increasing speed and then reducing the effort that it takes to convert folks. Um, yeah, and I think just you were mentioning uh, our data because we very recently actually, um, today is Wednesday. Yesterday we released our benchmarks report. Um, so just by nature of Chili Piper, we have access to a lot of form fills. Like how many? I think it was based on 6 million form fills. So folks that filled out a form to ask for it meeting and we looked into how many form fills of qualified users actually ended up in a meeting. So these are, these are people too who filled out the form that asked for a meeting that were qualified already. Right. Those are your ICPs. And it turns out that four out of 10 of those folks drop off and never get a meeting. Which is crazy. Right? We invested so much. This is like a lead we already paid for, we already invested in. Um, and they just, very often they just disappear. Right. So finding ways to really like, reduce that friction, uh, to um, maybe think of some re engagement, think of, um, shared availability for account executive to get those folks to, uh, book and actually meet, uh, with you

Speaker B: all. Ah, good stuff. Thanks for drilling into the website a little bit, especially with the mindset of the AI buyer. What are your. What's your take on all this, Kevin?

Speaker C: I love it. Yeah. I always speed wins at the end of the day.

Speaker D: Like, that's true.

Speaker C: It really is. Because, like, you have Amazon. It's so either I'll use them because it's so easy to do business with them. It is just even returns, um, you know, sometimes they're like, hey, don't even return it. Keep it. We'll give you. We'll credit your account. And people want that. And I know Bianca said it a few times, it's like reducing that friction. And you know, it's all about the outcomes because a lot of times too, people don't want. I could tell you, like, my partner, like, she doesn't really like talking to salespeople. Um, and I have friends who don't want to talk to salespeople because it's like you got to set up a meeting and do this. And it's like, it's. There's a gap and it's just like, you, you want it now. It's top of mind. So it's like, how do you make it so easy for somebody? And it's like using AI, leveraging, or I shouldn't say, like leveraging the tools to shorten that gap so they could see a demo, start a pilot. Because at the end of the day, it's all about outcomes. And it's like, how can you show them those outcomes faster? And the sale starts on day one. Like the experience. And if you have a poor. Even just setting up a meeting, like, if, if it's. I could tell you I had something the other day with a company and I'm like, nope, not easy. See you later.

Speaker D: So m. People don't have the patience anymore. Right. Like, they will not wait for you. They will just not wait for you.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker D: And it's also just because also, they're more informed. Right. They don't need you to. They don't need your website. They don't need a person to. To get all the information because they have Cloud and ChatGPT and AI overviews. Right. They're already informed. So, like, the, The. You know, if they do give you the time of day to meet with you or to sign up for your product, they are already very warm and good leads, which is amazing. Which is the good. The good part of it. Uh, all right.

Speaker B: It's definitely. Yeah, that's. That's what people want. They want leads, Right. Qualified leads. Ideally 10 out of 10, not 4 out of 10, like, qualified.

Speaker D: Ready to buy here right now we're gonna figure out how to get to 10 out of 10.

Speaker B: Yes. How do we do that? Um, well, you know, I don't know. I guess maybe we should talk about closing deals when buyers delay. Um, we will get into that topic next. But in terms of websites that convert AI buyers, anything else either you would add, and if not. Um. Uh, let me start there. Kevin, any more that you would like to add before I ask a final question to Bianca?

Speaker C: I would say, but the web, like, the website, like, keep it so easy. Um, interest, like, it's the experience. I say go try out, like, if you have a company, like, go buy from your own company and see if you like it. Right. And just. I would say that it's just like, see it and then go buy from. If you're up against the competitor in a deal, literally, go buy their product or go sign up for a demo. Like, go see what they're doing. Because it's just like, the experience and seeing how long it takes. And then maybe you could use that as ammunition. You know, in. In when you're bringing value to the deal, like, at the end of the day, it's all about bringing value, like, every single time. It's like, how do you stand out? Like, every single time.

Speaker D: And if you're not going to do it, your competitor is going to just do it faster and better than you.

Speaker C: Yes. Yeah.

Speaker B: And that's.

Speaker C: And I. I'll say. I was saying, you know, a handwritten note goes a long way. That's what I'll say.

Speaker B: M. Be human. Yes, a handwritten note, definitely. Uh, so, Bianca, what actionable steps do you think people could take to get started in terms of, like, converting more AI buyers?

Speaker D: Yeah, so I. I think Kevin also alluded to this. Right. Like, you Just need to figure out, like, what the. Your current process is, evaluate what is happening on your website right now and finding the gaps and the potential leaks. Right? So, um, um, yeah, one thing that I already mentioned. Like, you know, you need to, uh, again, with tools right now, like, it's so much easier to identify your, uh, ideal, um, accounts, right? There. There are SEC tools around account identification where you can actually know when someone in your icp, especially like maybe an enterprise lead, right? You, you can know now that they are on your website. So why are you giving them, like, the same website experience as everyone else?

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker D: They probably need a better experience, right? Like, maybe there's a special banner that could pop up or a special content offer specifically relevant to them. Uh, or a chat. AI right? Like now chat is like, chatbots are so popular these days. Maybe a chatbot that has a very, again, very tailored, a very personalized message specifically to them. Uh, or right, maybe. Maybe someone's on your. Someone from your ICP is already on your. On your website, on your pricing page for, like, I know, five, ten minutes if they're on your website. Uh, if they're on your pricing page for 10 minutes, they are close, right? So why not like a scheduling widget, like schedule a meeting now? Uh, so things like that to really, like, encourage people to, um, go further down the funnel, uh, a little bit quicker, especially if they're the right fit. Another idea I think I also mentioned is re engagement. Right? Those four meetings that never happened, what happens to those? You know, maybe an AE will follow up, maybe they won't. Maybe they'll do it in a week, maybe they'll do it in a month. Who knows? Um, again, A.I. now we can automate these things. Figure out ways to automate re engagement. Uh, that's another idea to sort of like fill those leaks. Is that, does that answer your. Your question, Jesse?

Speaker B: Yeah, just make it as easy as possible for them to move down the funnel as much as they can or will.

Speaker D: But it's like, just like Kevin said, right? You just need to understand how your. What your website is doing right now. Like what the experience is right now, what the competitors are doing right now, and just be better than.

Speaker B: Than, um, better than your competitors. Yeah, just build the biggest chicken shop. You know, it's like you got one chicken shop on one side of the street and one chicken shop on the other side of the street. Like, which one are you gonna choose? You just have to be the better one. Um, but yeah, we've got a comment from David. Gokey Wow. Measuring time on pricing pages. Genius. Yes. That would be our homepage for us. We put our pricing right on our homepage. I just updated it this week. Um, anyway, I digress. We're gonna get into our next topic which is closing deals when buyers delay. But we're gonna do that right after this brief message. At, uh, reviting, we help B2B founders, executives, brands turn their live streaming into a real revenue channel. One live stream turns into a podcast, it turns into a social clip, it turns into email content like a newsletter and actual sales conversations. You get to have a lot of conversations with people when you have a podcast or a live stream like this. And if you want to be known, trusted and remembered in your industry without being online 247 worrying about your posting, this is what we do. Just head on over to Reviting.com and let's build your show.

Speaker D: I want to give a quick testimonial

Speaker B: for the Reviting team. I was really nervous about doing Lives. They very much have helped me increase my reach and online presence. So thank you Revenant.

Speaker C: I love what you and the team do. I've been picking up 50 followers a day just because that content is resonating so well. It's working across a lot of different channels for me.

Speaker B: One of the problems that we struggle with is getting our brand out there. Her team have been able to do for us is the idea of going live on LinkedIn and using that push platform to its fullest extent. Through the way they're able to take the live event and break it down into bite sized posts, video clips as well as the content within the posts themselves.

Speaker A: This is Mike M also known as Clean with Mike on Twitter. Mike hired a virtual assistant from cherry assistant about 2 years ago. Now he is a 50k per month business fully managed by a remote operator in South Africa. His VA from South Africa does the following closing inbound leads on the phone Yelp and Google and Facebook manages his CRM and Golf high level deals with rescheduling, cancellations, any issues, hires and manages the cleaners and sends him daily reports and updates. Mike has a fully cash flowing business managed by remote operator for only $8 an hour. You can also hire a US equivalent worker in the Philippines, South Africa, Latin America for a fraction of the cost with Cherry Assistant. Be like Mike and grow your business with offshore staff.

Speaker B: Yes, be like Mike and if you're on podcast we're showing a menu of services that Cherry Assistant offers and yeah, it includes a lot of things. So whatever it is that you're doing, just think about delegating. That's how you're obviously going to grow. And if you decide to use charity assistant, just make sure that you tell them that you heard about them through Wednesday for $250 off your first month. And best of luck with that. But let's talk about closing deals. So closing deals when buyers delay, uh, I love a one call close. And to me sometimes like if you're not going to close on the call, like, is it even worth my time? Because I'm a marketer and I sort of feel like, you know, I don't want to chase you down because if you don't want to do it, then like, I only want to create content with people who really want to create content. Um, so I don't know as the seller, I guess I am because I'm um, a marketing agency, a marketer. Selling marketing, like it's the delay really kills the vibe for me. So how do we close deals when buyers delay? Kevin?

Speaker C: It starts with prayer. If you believe in it. I would say prayer. A. Every little bit helps. Um, yeah, it's, you know, it's been going on. There's no secret sauce or certain way. Um, because it happens even to the best buyers. Right things, you know, people, you get ghosted. Deals don't close, whatever that might be. Um, and we said it earlier, like, be human at the end of the day because everybody, you have all different methodologies but you know, meet your buyer where they're at. Um, so I would say number one, like human to human. Uh, understand who you're, you're talking to, you know, is it at. I would say, you know, now with this large, complex deals, make sure you're talking to the person like and mapping it out. And having that plan of understanding, like who's signing the check, who's signing the deal, the agreements, um, you know, who's involved in deals. I could tell you. I remember a few years back, I lost a deal. Uh, it wasn't because of price. It wasn't because of what we did and how we ran the sale. It was because we didn't really show love to the end. The one end user, and she had a vote and it wasn't unanimous. And the other group won, the other company won. So it's just like making sure you're aligning, you know, with everybody who's involved. You know, whether it's legal service, whether it's large deal, small deal. Make sure you understand like, hey, who's involved and what's the value to them, because every single time it's bringing value to, to that person. So the CFO, he's going to have, you know, different KPIs versus, you know, the end user versus legal or, you know, whomever. So make sure you're mapping that out, planning that, um, because you're earning trust. And, you know, I always tell people, you know, setting the expectations from day one, having a timeline, understanding, you know, when do they want to go live, you know, work backwards, but it's, you know, bringing that value there. And value could be a scorecard from day one. Like, hey, here's our steps, here's our process. This is where we're at today. How does this look? And just confirming and reconfirming and getting agreement upfront from them. Um, I give out, you know, with some of the, um, you know, folk folks that I work with today, you know, I'll tell them, like, hey, I know you're going to go talk to other people. Here are questions that I would ask if I'm in your shoes. Um, because that way, you know, it prepares them. We understand the questions they're asking and we will know exactly like, hey, I'm helping them. And it gives me, you know, um, the opportunity to like, to earn their business. And, you know, people are saying, you know, a lot of times people like, they delay. You know, what, what's the delay? Was there a change? And, and the background, you know, I didn't share this in the beginning. I used to be a journalist, so I'm not shy, ask those difficult questions. But it's, you know, quantifying numbers. Numbers and, you know, shout out to Jay Z, men lie, women lie. Numbers don't, you know, tie everything back to numbers. Um, you know, show them the value. Like if they're not moving forward, you know, map it out. Hey, if it's three more days or five more days or two more months, whatever that might be, this is what you're going to lose. You know, this is how it's impacting your business. Tie it to their bottom line. Nobody likes losing money. I'll uh, tell you that. Uh, so you have that you're shrinking the. Yes. And then everything's about outcomes. You could tell me about your product. You could do everything, but how is it going to help me? And it's the outcome. So maybe that's a pilot. Maybe it's setting up a taste of like, hey, here's a little example. You could try it for three day, A three day trial, you know, depending if you're a larger business, whatever that might be. But tie everything to outcomes pilots for you know, larger deals that we work with. You know, having a pilot 60 to 90 days, I say no more than that. But having those KPIs, but it's that communication, you know, setting up, hey, we're going to talk, you know, every week at this specific time and understanding are we hitting it. And it's just like going, looking at the data at the end of the day. Um, and it's just like if you could hit that, you earn the trust. And you know what we were saying before speed wins. Bianca said it like do it. That's what people want. They want the outcomes.

Speaker B: People want the outcomes. Yeah. And uh, the Jay Z comment like that was just everything. Uh, men lie, women lie, numbers don't, don't.

Speaker C: And that's, I've used that and sometimes it knocks it out of the park and I could, I'll be the first one to tell you. Like I said it at a conference and nobody said anything and I, I didn't know my audience and that was just like oh man, I should have said like Elvis said that.

Speaker B: Um, I kid but yeah, he kids but not really. Um, and it's all about the data, uh, the, the Benjamins and the data and the numbers. Um, but I would love to hear what, what are your thoughts on any of this? I mean I, I loved what he said about including decision makers but I know we're more at the top of the funnel, Bianca. But um, when you think about closing deals with buyer delay. Yeah. What are your thoughts?

Speaker D: I actually wanted to, to mention something a little bit later when we will go, we're going to be talking about communities. Um, but I think the buying committee is something that people sometimes um, omit and, or, or like don't focus on that much. I think we at least in marketing or in like high stakes deal, we want to talk to the decision maker. Right. We want to you know, get the decision maker on the, on the meeting, get the decision maker to, to sign the document.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker D: But I think there's a huge ah, power and even like individual contributors into, to kind of influencing the decisions. So I was actually at a uh, at a developer marketing company where it was the uh, the developers just the engineers working on like huge corporations that used our product on their like personal passion projects and would go to their boss, to their CTO saying hey, like we're using this old horrible tool. I don't want to use that anymore. I don't want to work here. If we are not using this modern, cool tool, um, you know that Bianca is selling, right? So, and this is how we, uh, you know, how. How the company really drove revenue, and it was absolutely incredible. Um, so, yeah, just. Just, uh, considering the buying committee as well, I think that helps sort of speed, uh, up the decisions. Right. Because if you have good champions, uh, it can really convince the final decision maker to make that decision for you.

Speaker C: M. I know what I'll say too. And also flip it, because sometimes people think the process might be like, they move faster. And then you could flip it and be like, hey, here's our internal process. You know, legal usually typically takes about a week. You know, we have a committee, internal, like, and flip it and explain to them because they move really fast, but then you're slower. They're going. M. Is my implementation. Is this going to be the experience that I get with them? So just make sure you flip it and explain. Especially if it's like, end a quarter, end a year or whatever that might be. Tell them like, hey, on average, it takes X amount of time to do, which is really important.

Speaker B: Yeah, just be completely upfront with them. Yeah, yeah, I like all of that. Any last final words or like, same question I gave Bianca, like, what is the actionable advice you would give people on closing deals and buyers delay? Like, how. How do. How do we transition into that mindset?

Speaker C: Yeah, I would say to just be upfront. Right? Just. It's just being human, being. Hey, we, you know, had great conversation. Is this still a priority? Is this, you know, last time we spoke, this was number one. You know, is this still a priority on your list? What's changed? Um, and just. And people will be like, maybe they got new leadership, maybe there's layoffs going on. You know, there's so many different things that could impact the sales. So just be upfront with them and be real. Um, that's. Just be authentic. You just said it before. Just be authentic. Um, and just be. Okay, that's what I would say. We're human. At the end of the day, that's it. You know, things happen, things move on. Um, I think you just want transparency. That's my word for this year, transparency. So just be transparent.

Speaker B: Yeah, transparency. That's a good word. Okay, well, let's move on into our next topic, which is building community. So we, we started at, ah, you know, being found on SEO, moving into the website, down the funnel to closing the deal. After we close the deal, we want to move them into community, um, and building community. That becomes your best marketing channel. Um, and you can even get them in your community before you close the deal. Really?

Speaker D: Um, yeah, it's really on both sides or all sides of the funnel.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker D: Like community is such an interesting thread.

Speaker B: Yeah, kick us off.

Speaker D: Yeah. Um, so I think maybe to start with, I think there's just this trend of like, yeah, let's start a community. Yeah, that's a great question, David. Um, I think people misunderstand community a little bit because they confuse it with um, audience. You know, an audience are the people who tune in that listen in that maybe you know, like, like your LinkedIn comment or, or, or come comment on your LinkedIn post. Right. Maybe they read your newsletter actively. Right. Those are all fantastic people to have. But that's an audience, that's another community. Uh, and, and maybe that's it. Like maybe building a great loyal audience is, is what you need to do for your business and that's fantastic. But community gets thrown around a lot and community is actually where there's a feeling, actual feeling of belonging amongst the people. Um, um, that's exactly what I'm, uh, uh, explaining. Uh, um, so, uh, a community is where people actually identify or when they help each other and when they interact and help each other even though you're not necessarily in the room. Right? That's for me, real, real community. And that one has like, much harder, it's much harder to track roi because let's say you invest so much in building a community, right? Like you have a Slack channel, maybe you even splurged and are paying for like a paid Slack subscription. Maybe, um, you know, you're organizing meetups and you're doing all these things for your community. But then like um, you know, maybe the CEO, maybe a revenue leader are asking you like, so what's, what's the revenue? What's the roi? And that's such a hard, hard moment because ROI from things like events is already hard and community is even, even harder because it's a long term investment, right? It won't. The uh, the roi, you will not see it in, in a year or in two years. But it's going to be if you do it right, if you invest it, uh, in it in the right way, you will, you will notice it from the conversations that happen again when you're not there. Right? This is where your champions are going to come from when there's a decision to, that needs to be made.

Speaker A: Right?

Speaker D: Like maybe you can call up someone to kind of recommend, you know, to talk to your prospect Right. If you can pick up a phone and be like, hey, you know, like, I know you're using, uh, us, uh, I know you're helping, you know, fix bugs and like talking to our product team, a lot of can you jump on a call tomorrow with this prospect of ours to tell them how amazing, uh, our tool is?

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker D: That's how those are the sort of huge, huge benefits. And really, they really do impact revenue. Uh, it's just very, very time consuming. Uh, and very. It has to come from a place of selflessness.

Speaker B: I love that selflessness. Yeah. Like you gotta give, give, give, give, give, give, give, give, and then receive

Speaker D: and not expect anything.

Speaker B: Yeah. So true. All. Uh, right. What are some of your favorite communities, Bianca?

Speaker D: Oh, I really like Exit 5. Uh, yes, they are Community M. He

Speaker B: was a big inspiration of mine, honest. I listened to his early podcast egmg, like back in the day when I was a full time CMO still. And that kind of inspired me. First of all, just seeing him do it, I'm like, maybe I could do that, but maybe I'll do it live. Um, but then I went to his first, uh, event, um, in Vermont. It was kind of like a small micro event, like a hundred people there, marketers primarily. And gosh, it was just like so informative for B2B marketing content. Like there's not very many specific, like B2B marketing only. And he was like, what, the CMO at HubSpot Bot, like all these like really. And at the time when they were like growing like startup. So like he knows like how to scale, um, a, uh, startup. And Privy. Is it Privy that he worked as a cmo? I read his book, um, founder, brand. That also inspires me in my work every day. So, like, interesting that you say. Yeah, that in his community. Yeah. Awesome. So how about you, Kevin? Who. What are some of your favorite communities? And talk to us about your thoughts with community.

Speaker C: Yeah, so I, I love Alians. I don't know if you know it, um, but it's fantastic. It's about the inner game. But they talk. Um, it's for your, your sales professionals. And I, I gotta say that's probably my favorite one out there. There's so many different ones and I'm, I'm a part of different, like local ones. Even though I just moved to Florida. There's some good ones down there as well. Like, um, I don't know. I know, um, a lot of people get some mixed reviews, but the chamber of commerce, I gotta tell you, like, it's been great like the local, where you could go shake some hands, talk to people. Um, you know, I've. It's been pretty solid so far. And with community, it's key, you know, you need, um, nobody's perfect. And two, it helps with learning because you always want to constantly just level up your game game and raise your game and you know, with community, you understand, even on I'm on X and I build different things, um, and talking to different developers. But there's some great communities out there, um, where you're just like leveling up, getting that knowledge. Because especially with AI, there's so much information being thrown at us every single day. And if there's other people out there, I go to hackathons a lot, quite frankly. So, like the local hackathons, I'm sure you can find one in your city. I, uh, would say if you're. You're thinking about learning AI, you know, anything like that or not, sure, go. Because you don't have to be, you know, a developer to go to these hackathons. And I will tell you, the first one I went to down in Miami, they couldn't have been nicer. Um, and now there's a group of us. So. But community is key. It really is. And it helps, you know, at the end of the day with, um, you know, just our, our attitude and everything. If you're just doing stuff by yourself, it's never fun, whether it's cooking or, or learning AI.

Speaker B: So that's so true. Yeah, there's so many different kinds of communities. It's interesting you say that like one of the first communities I was in, it was a admin for. It was like a Facebook community or group, I guess we were calling it at the time of women who were working and like Brad breastfeeding at the same time. So like pumping. So it's like very niche. Um, and that really like just opened my eyes to the power of community. Um, and just like in that nuanced time of life. Um, but yeah, I mean, there's. There's little niches on the Internet, a little corner of the world for everyone out there. Of course, we can nerd out on our marketing and sales ones, which, you know, Shameless plug. I've got two. They're. I, we put them in WhatsApp. They're free, um, Wednesday winners. It's basically like, we'd love to have both of you there, but we always suggest people keep it on mute. Um, it's basically fans, uh, of this show, people who come on the show, clients, um, Other people who want to grow on LinkedIn who are primarily sales or marketing. Um, and then one that's just women. Uh, and we have a retreat once a year though. Need to think about the next retreat. Uh, but it's also just like women in sales or marketing who are trying to grow on LinkedIn. Um, and yeah, it's, it's about being authentic and being a part of the conversation and not just coming in and dropping your links. You know, you don't want to be that person. Just like coming in and sharing your posts. Like, no, like, engage in the conversation. Um, this is such a good conversation, by the way. And I could keep talking about community all night long. Um, but I want to wrap it up and give you the opportunity to do so for us. Bianca, since it is of your topics, um, what would you end with in terms of building community?

Speaker D: I think it's worth building community. I do encourage everyone to, to kind of build a community around like the, the, the passion that you have. Because I imagine if you, if, if you work in a, in a business, like I'm going to assume it, it's sort of like there, there's a core that is, you know, just passionate about helping people solve a problem. So I do encourage people to build a community around solving that problem. But yeah, uh, do not expect ROI fast.

Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. Oh, it's definitely playing the long game, like any good marketer knows as well, and good seller, because good sellers know marketing and good marketers know selling. But I digress. I want to learn a little bit more about you both. But before we do, we just have one last segment. Guru of the week. The guru of the week. So we just spent the last hour being inspired by both of you. But who Inspires you on LinkedIn? That is your guru of the week, Bianca.

Speaker D: I'm, I'm gonna be a little bit, uh, maybe that's a little bit self promoting, but Alina VANDERBERGER, the, the CEO of Tilly Piper is absolutely amazing on LinkedIn and she has this like, we're really lucky because we're, uh, actually on, on, on our team right now meeting, uh, every week to kind of support each other and building our audience on LinkedIn. And Alina has just been the best person to give us, uh, advice on how to do it and how to tell stories, real life stories on LinkedIn that actually come from the heart that have like that moment of transformation. Uh, and it's just, you know, her storytelling on LinkedIn is absolutely amazing. And whether, you know, whether you're interested in B2B SaaS or not, doesn't really matter because she just, uh, has this magical way of telling stories. Definitely worth checking out.

Speaker B: Absolutely. She is so dynamic and just amazing. You have to go follow her content. And you can tell she doesn't use AI. She's like, writing from the heart, telling you her real stories about her mother, about her children. Like, and she's growing this multi million dollar organization. Like, it's just so fascinating to watch her. And I love that you guys have that culture. That was really the biggest takeaway from Chili Palooza with me was like, you guys have this culture where your whole team is supporting each other. You. Like, I can see why you're growing so fast. Like, like, even Alina, you know, you're all. She's not at a different level. She's really with all of you and you all communicate so well. And the event was so smooth and so amazing, and it's just been a pleasure having you on our show. But, Kevin, we want to hear from you too. Who's your guru of the week?

Speaker C: Sure. And I, secondly, Alina, I follow her, um, on LinkedIn. She's great with all the AI slop out there. Um, but no, Alex Kremer, uh, he's the founder of Alluvians. You know, he was in sales. Um, awesome. Just really authentic what he's building and helping people because you. It's. He's working on the inner game and just helping people, giving them clarity, getting them on the right path, helping them find their purpose. Uh, he's sharing stories. He, you know, sales professional. And he's the ups and downs left and right. I've been to his retreats all across the country. Awesome group of people. He, uh, gives out free content, so if you, if anybody needs to get a hold of him, um, you know, feel free to reach out. But he, he truly is like, what he's doing is. It's exciting to watch his journey. And he, it's, as he would say, it's the beginning of the beginning. And it's just super cool just to, to see him.

Speaker B: Can you spell his name for me? What was it?

Speaker C: Sure. So it's Alex and then it's Kremer. K R E M M E R. Okay.

Speaker B: Okay. He's my second connection. Second degree. All right. I just tagged him in the comments.

Speaker C: Yeah. Oh, he's great. He has about 30, 000 people following him.

Speaker B: Um, 30, 000. Wow. Let's go. That's so cool. So I actually, um, need to. To get that comment going here, so you can see that. But, um, amazing. Now, before we go, one last thing is we want to learn more about both of you. We've got three minutes, and we want to know more about, you know, what it is you do during the day, who it is you serve, how you serve them, and if they could be served by you or the companies you work with, how do they connect with you? Uh, we'll start with you this time, Kevin. Sure.

Speaker C: Yeah, you could connect with me. LinkedIn, you know, I'm on it constantly. Um, so you could just DM me. Connect with me. Happy to help you. Um, my network is your network, so whatever could do. If you try to get into a business, I, I just love bringing value to people. Uh, my day to day right now is I'm helping organizations mainly, you know, midsize, you know, small to medium companies, really understand, uh, how do they leverage speed and AI, um, to drive value to scale. And we're literally putting together plans because people just think they could hop in. Uh, but we'll sit there, we'll put together a plan, and, you know, if you want us to build it out for you, we could do that. You want to take it to somebody else, you could do that too. But for us, it's just really helping, shortening that gap because everybody's. And I said this before on a pilot, and it seems that nothing really goes to production. Um, you know, I think it's less than like 23% of projects go to production. Uh, we'll help you take you to production. So it's exciting, it's fun, we love it. And, uh, yeah, happy to connect.

Speaker B: Awesome. Thank you so much for sharing that. And how about you, Bianca? Could you also share a little bit more about yourself?

Speaker D: Absolutely. Um, so, yeah, I work in marketing at Chili Piper and Chili Piper, uh, we help companies convert that demand that's already on your website. Right. So I think that explains a little bit why I'm so passionate about, you know, websites and converting demand. Uh, so when a buyer shows up, when they're ready, we help, um, really personalize the website, share with them, like the create, like, the right website experience for them and then route them to the right rep and let them book instantly. Um, you know, instead of losing them somewhere in the dark corners of your website. Um, so, yeah, and I did mention some data. We actually had, like, a really cool benchmarks report, uh, released one for mid market, and we're releasing, I think, tomorrow one for, uh, enterprise companies. So if you're interested in like, you know, how many people, how, uh, leads actually convert on websites these days. Happy to send you a link. You can just connect, uh, with me on LinkedIn, if you can just type in my name and last name. Uh, and if you. I'll accept the connection request and I'll send you the, uh, the. The benchmarks report, if you're curious.

Speaker B: Yeah, that sounds like a really great report. I definitely would love to see it, Bianca, so count me in. Um, but it's the top of the hour. This has been another really great episode of Wednesday. Thank you both so much for staying up with us. Um, I know. Well, wait, where are you tuning in from tonight, Bianca? You're in Colombia, so that's Central time. So it's Central Time. You're not in Poland right now. It's not like.

Speaker D: No, just. Yeah, I know. That would be a little bit torturous.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. We do get some people, uh, who tune in from Europe once in a while when we're lucky, but, yeah, it's a hard time. Um, so, yeah, I'm glad this all worked out. This was an amazing conversation, and, um, yeah, I appreciate both of you staying on with us tonight.

Speaker C: Loved it.

Speaker D: Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker B: Absolutely. And for everyone else, we'll be right back here, same time, same place, next week. I hope you all have a great week. We. We will see you both backstage. Everyone else will see you next week.