Why More Leads Won’t Fix Your Sales Problem

Speaker A: Sam.

Speaker B: What.

Speaker A: M mhm. Uh, high level is a full CRM and marketing platform and I've used some of the best in the sas industry. Sam. Foreign. We are live on LinkedIn, YouTube, Facebook, we've got X, Twitch all going. It's reveng's Wednesday, June 17th. Welcome to the show. Thanks for being here. Per usual, we have two hot guests and four hot topics we're going to be getting into. But before we do, you know I have to tell you about a few things tonight I'm definitely going to be mentioning High Level. If you're listening on podcasts and not watching on video where we're showing a QR code, just go to Reviting.comHighLevel and get a 30 day extended free trial on my affiliate link to try this out. This is one of my favorite tools. If you've been here, you know, um, but yeah, if you're here tuning in, first of all, let us know where you're tuning in from. Second of all, have you been to the show before? Because if you've been here before, then you know that I talk about High Level like every week. Something that um, we repackage and white label and offer to all the rugged in clients. What's up? Mark Jarrow. So glad to have you here. I can't remember Mark, have I done a High Level demo for you? You're like always talking about tech. I feel like you need to see High Level and I would just love to show you how powerful of a CRM and marketing automation platform it is. But I'm going to digress for now and move into Streamyard because Streamyard is what we're using to go live right now. It's one of my favorite tools. It allows us to be super creative. We get to like upload videos. You just saw the intro video, we have the overlays on here. Um, and then we can stream to all the channels that we want to, that we have live stream access to. You have to have a stream key. Um, but then you know, you can do so much with it after words as well, like download all the local video recordings. You can make AI clips or. Right on High Level. I'm sorry, right on Streamyard. But scan this QR code or if you're just listening, I don't know what my affiliate link is for streamyard so email me jessieviting.com and I would love to help you and your team start going live. Whether you want to do it yourself and just get your own streamyard account or, or maybe you just Want it done for you. And that's what we do here at Reviting. You'll learn more about that on our ad. That will play intermission. But before that, I want to go ahead and just get started and bring in our guests for today. We have Scott and we have Chandler. Thank you both so much for being here.

Speaker B: Great to be here.

Speaker C: Yeah. Thanks for having us.

Speaker A: Absolutely. So it's Scott Finkelstein and Chandler Lyles. Do I have that correct?

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: We saw your titles in our intro video, and if we want, we can all go search you on LinkedIn. But what we really want to know is where are you from, where were you born? And, like, what's the real life you and what brought you to now without just reading off your resume in two minutes? Did you kick us off, Chandler?

Speaker C: Yeah, sure. Uh, you know, just like Scott, you know, we're. We're professionals. You know, we got to practice what we preach. So you can definitely find us both all over the Internet. Um, what got me here is a fun question. Who is it? Steve Jobs? That said, you can't connect the dots looking forward. You can only connect them looking backwards. And I think my story is it's really just about sort of following one interest to the next. My career started. I tried to go to college, uh, at the University of Kentucky for about a year and a half and ended up dropping out or failing out or getting kicked out. I can't really remember how that ended. Uh, but I ended up enlisting in the Air Force. And I got really lucky with that job, uh, because I was in contracting. And essentially what that meant was I got to work with small business owners and the government. I was kind of the middleman negotiating contracts. So at the age of 19, uh, to, like, 23, I was able to spend $50 million. But more importantly, I was able to meet just hundreds and hundreds of small business owners. And all of a sudden I realized, like, oh, wow, entrepreneurship is a job you can have. You don't have to be, um, some sort of special person or gifted from on high with some sort of inheritance, uh, or something like that to start your own business. So, uh, that was my first exposure into the entrepreneurship world. Um, from there, I got really into backyard barbecue as a hobby. So my first business was actually a barbecue restaurant. And that's really where I fell in love with marketing, because all of a sudden, I was having to compete with McDonald's and Chick Fil A. And how do I get people to come to my barbecue restaurant when those are the other options in Play. And that was the early days. I did that for about six years. Uh, fell in love with marketing, wanted to learn more about it. So I went and worked in house as a marketing leader for a couple different companies. And then about five years ago met my two co founders and we started Hy Vee Marketing and that's how we got here.

Speaker A: I love that. Thank you so much for sharing, um, such a cool story. I always love hearing people's like actual stories. So Scott, let's flip the clock back around and hear your full life story from birth to what brought you to now.

Speaker B: Sounds good. Well, Chandler, you mentioned barbecue. I live in Texas and literally today one of my friends and I waited in line for an hour for lunch to get some of the best barbecue. So I want to try some of your stuff one day. Um, I grew up in Connecticut. I was the youngest of three boys. So you know, you had to compete, you had a fight. And I grew up 45 minutes from Wall street and for some reason I just always said I wanted to be on Wall Street. I thought it'd be a stockbroker, right? Not in sales, just a stock broker and picking stocks and had a great childhood and two older brothers who mentored me through beating me up every day. But they did it with love. And then, you know, they're the ones who have made me as strong as I am. Went to college in Connecticut, started off in Wall street, wanted to get overseas. I was in my mid-20s, a hotshot expat in Tokyo for a few years. And I was always on the sales side in Wall Street. My friends would always ask me, what stock should I buy? I'm like, I have no idea, it's not what I do. But, um, was always in sales. Came back to New York in 2000 and my life was turned upside down the next year in 2001, on 9 11, I, uh, worked a block from the World Trade Center. I had a front row seat that day and walked away from those fallen buildings literally with a wife and four month old baby in hand and, and walked away from that career. And you know, a lot of founders who I get to work for, we all have our ups and downs and that was a 10 year tailspan of my life, my career, till I got back on track and got back into sales and had some great mentors who helped me get going in. In 2019 when my last company, I was CRO foresold. I said, what am I going to do? And I packed my bags, moved to Austin, started my coaching and advising Business with one simple goal. I want to pay it forward. I want to positively affect a million lives in the next 10 years. And I get to do that in what I do with sales scalers, working with founders and entrepreneurs and, and being a founder and entrepreneur myself and understanding the journey there and how to start a business. And I get to meet great people like you guys here and be on shows like this and hopefully make an impact in the people who are listening.

Speaker A: Wow, thank you so much for sharing. And I can't even imagine being anywhere near um, the World trade Center on 9 11. So thank you for sharing that. I can't. That's, that's the stuff that makes us human, right? The stuff that we go through. So, um, that's why we appreciate going through that because it gives you perspective on things. And especially in marketing, people buy for emotional reasons and people connect with people, not brands. So you both just humanized yourself a little bit for the audience. So I know there are others out there who um, have had some sort of, you know, experiences in life and feel free to share them if you're listening. I know we've got Mark here in the comments. I saw a few others here in the comments. But um, there's things that make us human that we don't always talk about in business, but those things sometimes also matter in business. Cause people are business. But anyway, I digress. Let's get into our first topic which is why the best known products win. Chandler, can you kick us off?

Speaker C: Yeah, Jesse. You know, it's funny, that's not even really that big of a digression. I find that one of the big unlocks as a marketer is realizing that every single person on this planet is the superhero in their own story, right? They are the hero of their own journey. And that's really, uh, the antithesis of this question here, which is like, how do we actually stand out in the market? Because when everybody is living their own lives and they're kind of channeled in. One of the fun stats that we found, um, was that humans on average make 35,000 decisions a day, which is an insane number. That's everything from what shoe do you put on first? Uh, what side of the bed do you sleep on? What's, you know, where do you brush your teeth? Like, what route do you take to work every day, what restaurants do you go to? Like, decisions are made on autopilot, you know, system one, thinking. System two, thinking is like the logical side of things. And you're conscious of about 70 of those thoughts a day. That means that the majority of your customers lives are lived on autopilot. And so if you want your company to stand out, you have to become the default option. You have to become one of those automatic things. And I think that's one of the things that especially new first time founders run into. Especially when they're really like tech driven guys. Those are like the artist driven entrepreneurs where like I'm really passionate about the thing, the thing should be good enough to sell itself. And in reality, until I know how that thing is relevant to me, it's just background noise and I'm ignoring it. Right. Do you know they still sell ads on the right side of the Facebook homepage? Like I can't believe it.

Speaker B: It still works.

Speaker C: People still do it. And I don't like. But when's the last time you actually looked and clicked on an ad on the right side of a Facebook page? Right. And so you have to. We had this saying at uh, High Beam where we say that the best products don't win. It's the best known products that win. And I'm biased because I'm a marketer and I run a marketing agency. So obviously I think this, but I highly doubt that a sales guy like Scott would tell you that it's easy to sell to somebody who has no idea who you are, no idea what problems you solve, and no idea how you're going to solve it for them. So if you want to stand out in this world, you have to be known for something specifically for a specific group of people.

Speaker A: Yep, exactly. And sometimes people don't know how to target to that specific group of people. Um, and that can make it really hard. But I digress for a moment. Scott, I'm sure there was something said there. What's your take on all this?

Speaker B: You know, this is, this is the sales guy saying, that's why marketing people have always loved me. It's not sales and marketing. That's what we always say. It's marketing and sales. And Chan was right. You've got to get known by the people who are looking for you. And obviously we could dive in deep of how people find you today versus a year ago, let alone five years ago, and how they buy, it's very different. But you've got to get known and marketing comes first. And if marketing is done right from a messaging and uh, an emotional connection standpoint, does the sales guy say sales becomes easy? And we're going to talk about some things I know today on sales too. But when marketing sets you up, right. It's like a baseball on a tee for, for Aaron Judge. He's going to hit it out of the park every time. And that's what it's about. Marketing. Marketing comes first and it has to be done right.

Speaker A: Absolutely, 100%. And why the best known products when. How do you tie this all back to why the best known products win? Chandler and what is the actionable advice you have for people to take away from this?

Speaker C: Yeah, I just want to piggyback really quick on what Scott said. I've always said that sales and marketing are two sides of the same coin. You know, the coin has different functions on each side, but they still serve the same purpose.

Speaker B: Right. It's currency.

Speaker C: And so if you want to feed your sales team, then you have to set them up with good marketing like Scott said. Uh, and if you want to have money to be able to market your business, you better hope the sales guys know how to close and do the things they're doing. Because it is like, and it like this, and this is a little bit off topic, but the old adage of like sales and marketing teams hating each other and not being able to get along in their own unique silos is a recipe for disaster in your business. You have got to have those two teams on the same page because we can argue about MQL vs SQL vs all the little tactical words there, but at the end of the day it's like, yeah, we got to get known and we got to get in front of the right audience. The way I like to think about it, I'm a big framework guy because tactics change on a business by business basis. And so what I like to think about is it came from this guy named Lesbinet and he was a, uh, I believe he was a physicist. He was trained as a physicist as at Oxford, and then randomly decided to become a marketer. And he coined this phrase called the 95.5rule. And basically what that says is that not at any given time, 95% of the market is in market for what you're. Or I'm sorry, 5% of the market is in market for what you're selling. 95% isn't ready to buy yet or isn't looking for it yet. I look at that saying like, you know why sales guys do well, from a cold calling standpoint is like if you imagine a room of 100 people and five of them are ready to buy from you, now you got to go out and call each and every one of them and you got to hit them all up one at a time. And marketing's job is to get your um, your business to build a relationship with the 95% who aren't ready to buy yet so that when they're ready to move into that 5% and buy, to Scott's point earlier, it's much. You're at least you're giving it at bat. You know, I'm a big baseball guy, so I love the Aaron Judge analogy. We can run it there like, like you're at least getting it at bat to sell your thing. But if you've not previously built a relationship that is a ton of work that you're adding onto your sales team to basically say, hey, um, they googled us and now they booked a discovery call and now you got to go close. But they don't know us outside of like however much time they just spent on our landing page trying to learn about us.

Speaker A: Absolutely, 100%. We're getting some comments here. One being just like Aaron Judge, get at bat as much as you can. Um, I don't know, that must be some sort of like sports commentary.

Speaker C: No, I, but I'll tell you that like, my favorite example to use here is Allbirds. Right. And Allbirds is in the news right now because they're all of a sudden switching to this AI first company. I don't know if you saw that on LinkedIn or whatever news you're on it, Scott, but it is crazy to me that this company who has thousands of positive reviews for a great product, couldn't find a way to sell them after the initial cheap traffic of Facebook ads in the 2010s. And the reason why is because they just, they fell apart from a marketing standpoint. They never developed the ability to get beyond what we call performance marketing, where it's basically like all return on ad spend focused. And they never elevated to what the big brands do, which is, hey, you know, this is another lisp and a formula, uh, where it's 60% of your advertising dollars should be spent on brand building activity and 40% should be built on performance. And that that is a really healthy balance of like, you know, building the relationship, building the emotion up and then going to convert on some of that brand equity.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I bet when you look at them, and I know this is going to be the next topic we're going to talk about, you need a sales system, a go to market system. A lot of times I'd find to your point, they get some early traction, it's great. But what do they do with that. And I've got one of my clients now, they brought me in in February. They were great website traction. You know, people are not just looking at the website, they're staying there. So, you know, they're reading the content. But what's the follow up, which is part of your system and you got to put that in place too. And I know we're going to talk about that in a little bit, so I won't go too far down that rabbit hole.

Speaker C: But, no, I mean, but to, to land where Jesse originally started, this follow up question was like, where should people be? You should be wherever your people, your ideal customers, spending the majority of their time. You know, we'll break down the formula to actually figure this out because it's real complicated and I'm going to tease you guys out so you stay around and watch this whole thing. But I'm telling you, it's, it's going to blow your mind. It's real, it's, it's, it's delicate. Uh, but at the end of the day, it's like, where do your ideal customers spend their time? And if it's on TikTok, like adopt TikTok. If it's on YouTube, go to YouTube. If they still read magazines, lucky you, you have very little competition. Just go buy the magazine. Something we found at High Beam is a great way to stand out in our market is to go speak on stages. And so it's, it's like taking it into the real world and it's like things you can't fake and uh, you know, like, so it's just, we go where our customers are and we just try to show up and we make the content and the ads. We, we, that's the real trick is making the ads not feel like ads. Because if I get up and do a 30 minute keynote and at the end of it, people come up to me and go, man, that's the best marketing keynote I've ever heard. And like, tell me more about your business. Like they're, they're begging you to do something because of, um, reciprocity, right? Reciprocity is this human disease. I mean, but it's essentially how we evolved in tribal situations where it's like we know the emotional bank account with each other, right? It's like, hey, if I had you on to do my thing, I'm giving you something. Like now you should feel the need to come do something with me, right? Like we have this deep, deep need to balance the scales emotionally with our fellow humans. Unless you're a psychopath. Uh, and if it's that case, like, I can't, I can't help you. You're kind of on your own, but everybody wants to be. Even from an emotional standpoint. I always like to buy dinner, uh, and lunches when I go out with people, just because I know that and I'm thinking to my. And I always make the joke. I call it out with them. I say, hey, don't worry. Next time I'm going to get you to take me to in Cincinnati. It's Jeff Ruby's is the really nice fancy steakhouse. So, uh, Scott, barbecue's on you. And I'm in Austin next week.

Speaker B: Let's go. Let's go. If you're here, let's do it. And Jesse, I love that you brought on a sales and marketing person here because channel, you said it earlier deeper than I did it. We have to get along. And you talked about just now, hey, we got to know the icp. Well, there's, there's a way to construct that. I'm sure you can get into that. Not to steal your thunder of how sales and marketing come together on that. Agree to it and understand it. And like you said, know where they hang out. You know, like I say, know what? Know what barrel of fish you're. You're. You want to get. Because if you want salmon and you're in the barrel of minnows, well, you're not gonna get what you want for dinner. And that's sales and marketing, isn't it?

Speaker A: I think relationships are, you know, uh, they're based on a few things. So whether it's marketing and sales or marketing with customers or sales with customers. And you said one of them. Reciprocity is a big thing. I mean, even think about your personal relationships. Reciprocity is hu. You also have communication and trust. I would say those are three big things that, uh, you should work on in, you know, sales, marketing, alignment in your marketing and customer conversations, as well as even in your personal life. But yeah, I think for marketing and as a marketer, it's really interesting to come up with ideas of how to best communicate, how to create that reciprocal, uh, a relationship with people, um, but then also building trust, especially through marketing and content and multiple touch points. But, um, there's so much more we can. Yeah.

Speaker C: Really quick. By the way, this is why I love companies like revenging. Like, what you guys are doing is basically doing this stuff on the back end for busy founders. Like, okay, you're founding a company, you're Marketing. Like you already are wearing a hundred different hats. Like Scott. One of my favorite things to do is when I'm feeling down, I go on LinkedIn job boards and try to see what marketing jobs are available. Because I'm like, I'm done being a service guy. Like I'm just gonna, I'm gon to go punch a clock and like have a 40 hour workweek. Like what are those things? Right? He's laughing because this is very relevant. Uh, but you go see and it's like these job listings have like four different jobs in them and they're all full time jobs and it's one position and it's a crazy, uh, underpaid position a lot of times. But if you're a founder, you're already wearing all these different hats and you're thinking a bunch of different ways. And so then you're going to also have to find a way to stand out in the market. Like, good luck. So having a company like Revenging that can come in and have the expertise of all these other brands that they're working on and they're going to be able to build all the systems in place and be able to go out there and actually like put you in front of the right audience at the right time to be able to build those relationships, to build that reciprocity. Like that is how you stand out in a crowded market where they're making 35,000 decisions a day and they're conscious of 70 content. Like a brand like Revting will make for you will actually get you to be one of the conscious 70 decisions, which is the only chance you have to actually stand out in today's world

Speaker A: 100%. Well, thank you so much. I mean, wow, that was amazing. Thank you for bringing up Revening. I really appreciate that. Thanks for seeing that. And that's what we try to do is help brands build trust with their audience and credibility and authority really. But I want to get it more into sales. So, um, Scott, where are you at? Scott? Let's talk about sales problems. And um, you know, how much does marketing contribute to those sales problems? Just kidding. Sales problems often start with broken systems. Those. Can you kick us off?

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. No, marketing's great. Except those MQLs. We'll, we'll decide how many are really good. No, uh, listen, it's anything in life. And Chandler, you hit it at the end. I work with a lot of founders too. They wear a thousand hats, but so does the sales rep, so does the sdr. So is the sales manager and, you know, pick the title. If you're wearing all those hats and you have all this pressure on you to perform, your talent only gets you so far. We've, we've talked to sports analogies. Think about the best athletes out there. There's a process to what they do every day. And that, uh, process is written down, which is the system. And in sales, it's the same thing. If you want consistency, how can you expect consistency if you don't consistently show up every day? Now, a lot of people who are listening, I'm sure, I bet a lot of you have a sales coach, you have a, a mindset coach, all that, they rev you up, they get you going. But in the end, then you sit in front of LinkedIn, you sit in front of your phone and like, all right, what do I do? If you don't have a system in process, that energy that you just got, that got you pumped up, I got this, let's go. Turns into frustration. And you sit there and you're scratching your head and you, you don't know what to do. But when you have a system in process that you can just show up to and say, okay, here's what I do on LinkedIn. I get my marketing message that I got from my marketing team, or I created myself for the solo entrepreneurs out there. I know I'm using this piece of technology to get my messaging out there, and I, I message my icp. I've used a system to systematically figure out who my ICP is, who I'm going after I send a message. Day one, day three, day five, depending what it is. And, uh, they responded or not. And then when they do respond, what's your system? Is it you just picking up and like, uh, ah, I got, I gotta lead. He wants to meet with me, let's go. No, you've got to have a system. And part of that system is, is I'm a script guy. And as a lot of people, if some of my sales reps over the last four decades listen to me, they're originally like, we don't want to sound scripted. No, scripts are performed, not, not read. And it's the same in your messaging. You should be able to plug and play a script into just about any response you get. So, again, I can do it faster, I'm more productive, and I can do more, because that's what companies want from you nowadays, whether it's your own company or you're working for someone. So you got to have that system in place so you know what to do especially on the days maybe. Listen, sales is a numbers game, right? So is marketing. I'm sure there's going to be good days and bad days. There's going to be good months and bad months. But if you systematically know what to do every day, you can take the emotion out of the action so that you can have the right emotion level when you do talk to someone. Human to human.

Speaker A: I like that. So you have the right. Can you say that last line so you have the right emotion when you talk with them. Human to human.

Speaker B: The right emotion. Right. We took channel talk about marketing is about connecting emotionally. Not to simplify it too much. Right. We got to connect emotionally with them that they want to do business with us. When the salesperson comes over, they have to connect now human to human, emotionally. We've emotionally connected to them to say, oh, this product might be what I want. It can, it can solve a problem, it can solve a challenge or also just get me to a future state that I want to get to. Hey. Because by the way, sometimes it's not always a problem we're solving. It's. I want to be in a good position tomorrow and maintain my lead in what we do. So I've got to connect human to human. Just like what, what did the three of us do? We, we had a 15 minute get to know each other before we went live so that we can have a flow like the three of us have been doing this for, for two years so that the audience can connect with us emotionally so I don't have to think about what I'm doing, whether it's a good day or bad day, the stress is on or my kids are screaming. M. A lot of us work from home. The kids are screaming in the background. And I can systematically know robotically with emotion is what I like to say. Those are the best sales reps. And you can connect human. You can be a human. You can put the fight you just had with your spouse in the back and just sit here and say, hey Jesse, sounds like you know, we can help you. Tell me more about your needs and just connect, connect. Bring the humanity everyone worries with AI nowadays and AI can replace a lot of things that channel I used to be build teams around AI can replace a lot of that, but AI replaced it to do what I call the milling as I wrote in my, my recent book that just came out, so that humans can do more of the humanity. And, and that's what system and process allows you to be. Bring your humanity out more because you just know what to do,

Speaker C: Scott. I've got a perfect story for this, by the way. My. So, like I said, my first business was the barbecue restaurant. Well, that was a family business, is my mom and my dad and myself. And we all started it together. And we're selling barbecue out of the side of the road. We got a little bit of money together and bought our first, uh, brick and mortar location. And it's funny, we were working crazy long hours, like 40, 50, 60, 80 hours a week, right? I was really introduced to the. Oh, this is not a 40 hour a week job anymore. And my mom was the artist. Like, she was the actual heart and soul of the business, right? Like, she was. She grew up on a farm in Georgia, so she was farm to table before it was all trendy and everything in our restaurant was made from scratch. Now, early on, you can talk about systems. Like, restaurants need systems desperately to run because you have, you know, eight to $15 an hour employees that maybe aren't the best at thinking outside of the box or not motivated properly to think outside of the box just because of the way the compensation is structured. So they need simple systems to follow. But we ran into a headway, uh, where my mom was the artist and she said, hey, I have to make every recipe with what, a little bit of love. It's a little bit of this, a little bit of that, a picture that, and it's like, that's great. And I love when you cook Sunday dinner and we get to come over and like, yeah, that's perfect. Like, that is when love should happen. But on a Tuesday, when I need, you know, John and Sally and Sam in the kitchen to be able to make your potato salad the exact same way you do, uh, I need to have it measured out. And we literally went behind her with like, I was like, anytime she would sprinkle love in something, I had like a measuring cup underneath just to catch it real fast and then look at how much it was by grams and then write it down. And like, now all of a sudden we could. It was a trigger effect too, because not only did it free up our time for her to be able to go do the things she was best at, it also allowed us to do better things within, like hiring and training, also cost controls, also pricing the menu. Hey, is potato salad supposed to be $4 or is it $2? Like, what is it supposed to be priced at? Um, and until you get some of those systems around you, uh, you're going to fall to the level of your motivation every day. And I don't know about you, Scott, I am not the best version of myself every single day. Sometimes, like I said, I'm just not feeling it. And uh, I might be cruising LinkedIn boards, but I only do that after I do the marketing systems and the sales systems that I have for ib Then I go wallow in my self pity for a day and then, you know, go to sleep and usually it's fine by the next day.

Speaker B: Yeah. And what did all that bring? It's fun. You know, my mom always would send me recipes, so it's funny. Grew up and she's like, you'll just smell it. I don't know what the measurements are. I should have followed her around like you did. But what does that all bring to your point? Consistency. So whether it's a restaurant, a sales business, you name it, it's consistency in the output, consistency in how that potato salad tasted every day, even if your mom wasn't doing it right. So the customer got the same consistency. That's why they'll come back to your restaurant. And same in sales. Can you consistently hit your forecast? Can you consistently hit your, your quota? Well, if you know the right things to do and you've systematized it, it's going to happen. It's gonna, let me rephrase, it's not gonna happen all the time. It's gonna happen 80 to 90% of the time. And if you can do that in a business, you know, you're hall of fame.

Speaker C: Yeah. There's one additional system I would, I would add and you, you probably do this as well. I would have the sales teams meeting with the marketing team because I like to have sales conversations that are recorded. I think the fact that you guys record conversations with good fit customers, bad fit customers, the best customers that have been long time value, like uh, lifetime value is huge. You have all this treasure trove of data and copy and words and feelings like you're talking about. All of that should be fed to the marketing team. And if your marketers are not listening to the sales calls like they listen to podcasts, then they're doing it wrong. Because when you're listening to those sales calls, you're all of a sudden starting to feel like, oh, this is the angle, this is the copy, this is the pain, this is the unaware selling point that I can bring in to bring new people. There's so much gold in copy anytime I go to make. Um, we work with a lot of direct to consumer e commerce brands. Right. So there's not a lot of sales calls. But what there is a lot of is online reviews, which is basically just a sales call after the fact that. And there's this other trend online that I've seen a lot of founders of smaller brands, they're calling customers that have abandoned carts just to find out why they abandoned the cart. And then they record it. And I'm like, God, all of that information is gold. So you need to. I would recommend at least. I don't know what you think about this, Scott, since you're the sales expert. I'm kind of outside my lane here, but like, how do you get a system in place to where the sales team is constantly piping in all of that data and information and copy potential to the marketing team and then all of a sudden it creates this virtual cycle where we can all just build and it's a better working team in, uh, the long run.

Speaker B: 100%. And you're. I'm a data geek at heart. I was actually an actuary major in college for two years. Did an internship and as you can see, you know, grew up in, you know, around New York in a Jewish family and a lot of Italian friends. We talk with our hands. So being on spreadsheets all day just doesn't work so well. There's so much data out there. To your point and especially now you, you know, applaud device, um, read AI. We can name gong, you name it. Oh, I love what you said, Chandler. Absolutely. That is the gold, that's the platinum. And AI now can even decipher a lot of that for you. So you no longer have to listen to the 60 minute sales call.

Speaker D: You.

Speaker B: Oh, uh, love that you said that out loud. Yes, absolutely. You've got to take that and sit down as a team and say, what did we learn? One, how can you know, how can sales also message better? Are we connecting the dot from what marketing the dotted line marketing led into. Now it's an SQL we want to talk or are we we breaking that line by what we're saying? How are those still meshing together and ah, yeah, that. You got to listen to that stuff. You've got to, you know, it's the game film, right. You know, for the sports analogies. Are you watching the tape after the game in seeing what you did?

Speaker C: Good.

Speaker B: So we can emphasize that and do more and what we need to do better and then, uh, to your point, you know, how does the catcher and the pitcher work together? How does sales and marketing work together? Love it. Absolutely. Yeah.

Speaker C: Not only that, it ends up being Like a, a, like you could do. You know, there's a world where you can literally take every sales objection that your guys have. You can just have someone in the building film an ad answering the objection for the different ICPs and then run that as an ad. And then literally when the ad shows up, uh, and then, then this, the lead shows up in the pipeline, the sales guy's like, got any questions? And you're like, nope, take my money. And like that's what you were, you were alluding to earlier with the Aaron Judge on the T and just getting all these at bats. Like it's uh. What's the other analogy from the Northeast? The uh, it's like the Patriots having, you know, tape, uh, of the super bowl before anybody else shows up.

Speaker A: Right?

Speaker C: Like it's a, it's, it's the whole thing. You know, it plays. Coming. It's easy.

Speaker B: Steeler fan, you've not lived in New England, so I'm okay with that.

Speaker C: That's absolutely. I'm a Falcons fan, so I'm very bitter. I'm very bitter. Patriots,

Speaker B: we promise.

Speaker A: Uh, well, there was some pretty awesome sports stuff going on in the last few weeks. Um, but yeah, I'll digress on sports because I don't know much about it. But we do have Doug in the comments chiming in saying, establish systems in place for performance and better consistent outcomes on levels of marketing and sales growth. Good points being made here. Thanks Doug for joining. Um, and we have two more really great topics I want to make sure that we get to the marketing formula, brand and advertising drive sales as well as more leads won't solve it. Which is the one I'm looking forward to getting to. And we will get to those right after these two brief messages.

Speaker D: This is Mike, also known as Clean with Mike on Twitter. Mike hired a virtual assistant from cherry assistant about 2 years ago. Now he is a 50k per month business fully managed by a remote operator in South Africa. His VA from South Africa does the following closing inbound leads on the phone, Yelp and Google and Facebook. Manages his CRM and Golf high level deals with rescheduling cancellations, any issues. Hires and manages the cleaners and sends them daily reports, reports and updates. Mike has a fully cash flowing business managed by a remote operator for only $8 an hour. You can also hire a US equivalent worker in the Philippines, South Africa, Latin America for a fraction of the cost. With Cherry Assistant. Be like Mike and grow your business with offshore staff.

Speaker A: At uh reviting we help B2B founders, executives brands turn their live stream into a real revenue channel. One livestream turns into a podcast, it turns into a social clip, it turns into email content like a newsletter and actual sales conversations. You get to have a lot of conversations with people when you have a podcast or livestream like this. And if you want to be known, trusted and remembered in your industry without being online 247 worrying about your posting, this is what we do. Just head on over to Reviting.com and let's build your show. I want to give a quick testimonial for the reviting team. I was really nervous about doing lives. They very much have helped me increase my reach and online presence. So thank you Revenant.

Speaker B: I love what you and the team do.

Speaker C: I've been picking up 50 followers a

Speaker B: day just because that content is resonating so well. It's working across a lot of different channels for me.

Speaker A: One of the problems that we struggle with is getting our brand out there. Her team have been able to do for us is the idea of going live on LinkedIn and using that platform to its fullest extent. Through the way they're able to take the live event and break it down into bite sized posts, video clips, as well as the content within the posts themselves. Awesome. I love that ad. Thank you to our customers for sharing. But let's get back into these hot topics. We've got the marketing formula, brand and advertise, uh, or branded advertising drive sales. Can you kick us off, Chandler? Yes.

Speaker C: I teased this early on in the uh, in the stream and so here it is. Thanks for sticking around. You get to actually watch it pay off. So this is real complicated and I want you to get your pen out and uh, then write it down. You ready? The marketing formula, what we call it is the AEI formula. Okay. And this is how you, you build a brand that can actually grow sales or drive, uh, sales qualified leads so that Scott and his team are super happy. And here's what it is. Attention multiplied by emotion equals influence. And that's, that's it. It's, it's not complicated. Right. Like it is at the end of the day. I think we make marketing and sales, we make these things very complicated because we get so bogged down in the weeds and we talk about algorithms and this and that. And like what it is is attention multiplied by emotion equals influence. If you can get somebody's attention and you can make them feel something, you can influence them to do something. Marketing's job is to get a lot of people's attention, make Them feel really big feelings in the positive direction because we've also seen negative emotions drive negative influence. So in sales it's a one on one conversation where you're capturing that person's attention on the call. You're making them feel like they can trust you with case studies, testimonials, answering the questions, all the things that Scott talks about with his scripts and, and I love the, the scripts are performed and not read. That's a great line. Like that is a great mentality for causing those emotions to make sure they show up. And then at the end of that sales call or at the end of the marketing messaging, you have the influence to go drive them to do the next thing they actually want to go do. Attention. Like you get the wrong attention, like it can cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars. It's funny, there's this uh, this famous artist named Banksy, right? Banksy is this very famous street artist. He kind of does this social aware, like you know, kind of play on commentary on the uh, on, on the, the world at large, right? And he did this experiment where he put about two or three dozen of his uh, pieces of art for sale on a New York sidewalk. Uh, New York sidewalks get thousands of people walking by every single day. Tons of attention. But it had no emotion because nobody knew that these were Banksies for sales. And he was, he was selling his pieces of artwork for $60 a piece. A normal Banksy goes for hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars, depending on what it is. So that meant that there was literally millions of dollars sitting on the sidewalk. And you would think they would have sold out in no time. But because nobody knew it was a Banksy, it just looked like regular street art that you could get any single day. They had the wrong attention. They sold, what was it? It was four total Banksies to three people. And the only reason they sold three Banksy or to three people was because one lady haggled and got a buy one, get one free Banksy. And once she realized what she had, uh, because it all came out. And then that's what drove the experiment because he actually talked about it or he mysteriously talked about it. Nobody actually knows what the guy looks like. She sold it at auction for like $200,000. So her $120 investment turned into 200 grand. That's a pretty good ah, day at the office, Scott. You and I would take that roi all day long. That's the value of getting the right attention at the right time, right? And then on the emotion side of things like, like you were saying earlier, like, without m. Like, we say that emotion sharpens your attention and focuses you, because without emotion, you.

Speaker A: You.

Speaker C: You cannot make decisions. It is such. Emotion is. Is irrational. Humans are irrational. We buy with emotion and we justify with logic. And you buy with emotion way faster than you realize. And you're justifying, and you don't even realize you're justified. Like, it is an insane thing. There was, uh, there was two journalists from the New York Times, Rob Walker and Josh Glenn. And they wanted to see what the power of emotion was. And what's the best way to trigger emotion? Scott, it's telling stories. Stories are. That goes all the way back to the tribal days, too. I mean, that's how we shared time around a campfire. You evolved to learn via story, not written word story. And so they, uh, they wanted to test the power of story. They went out and bought 100 pieces of junk. Literally went to swap meets. Uh, they were in New York. They went to garage sales all over the place, picked up, um, 100 different items. They spent like $130. So every item cost, like $1.30. I think they bought like a. My favorite item in the thing was a glass banana, and it was 77 cents for this banana. And so then they went out and they hired 100 creative writers. Uh, and they said, you have one rule. You have to write a story about these items. It can be about anything you want. It doesn't have to be grounded. It can be fake. It can be whatever you want it to be. It can be a sci fi story. It just has to have a story associated with it. They did this. They posted all of these items up on ebay. And all of these pieces of junk then proceeded to sell for like, $3,500. Like $128 of junk turned into $3,500. And that does not make sense except for the fact that we buy with emotion and we justify with logic. And the minute you try to start explaining why humans do what they do outside of it felt right, you're gonna lose. And if you can get the right attention at the right time, make them feel the right emotion with when you like. Because my, my least favorite ad of all time, Scott, is those stupid bus, uh, bench ads that say, see, you looked. This advertising works. Call us. Buy your ad placement. You also see these stupid things on billboards, right?

Speaker B: Billboards.

Speaker C: Like, no, you got my, uh, attention, but you didn't make me feel anything. That doesn't, that doesn't make Me want to now buy a bunch of bench ads, right? It doesn't. Like just capturing somebody's attention is not enough. If you do like, you can get them on a sales call, Scott. But if they cannot get them to feel something, like what is it? They take them down the pain funnel, right? Like, you don't make me feel while I'm on the call, like I'm just, I'm out. There's nothing I can do for you. You have no influence over me. You cannot get me to do anything at all.

Speaker B: I love the formula. So, so simple. By the way. Obviously you're a great marketing person. You teased it very well at the beginning and said it was complicated. And it is. It's that simple, right? It's attention times emotion equals interest. And the attention obviously grabs some emotion, right? But then. And this is probably around when there's that handoff. Ah, to sales is can we, can we add to that emotion? And sometimes that's pouring more salt on the proverbial wound. Other times it's painting the picture to the future of this castle can be bigger than you think it is. There's more that we can do for you with this software, this service, this product and get them emotionally not just connected, but invested. As I like to say. As I tell my salespeople, you gotta get people emotionally invested in what you are trying to do for them. I love it. Love it. Great formula.

Speaker A: Such a good topic. So getting attention. Great formula, emotion. Um, what. I always ask this on every topic. What actionable advice would you give? I mean, the formula in itself is some pretty good actionable advice. Um, but how would you suggest people get attention, for one? Because there's a lot of different ways to go about doing that. Um, and then how do they go about bringing in that emotion?

Speaker C: Well, I mean, how to get the attention? That's why you pay Scott the big bucks. He's going to show you how to get the attention. That's the like, attention. Again back. We talked about it the first half of this interview, right? Where attention is all about where your ideal, uh, customers are spending a lot of their time. Um, also, it's like once you get onto your website, like, what does the copy on the website look like when we follow the customer journey all the way from the marketing things all the way to, um, Scott scripts that he's talking about, Are we causing the right emotion on each one of these stages? So if I was you, if I was the founder of a tech company or anything, honestly, this is a mental model that Applies to any industry at any time. It worked for my barbecue restaurant. It's worked for the 100 plus brands we've worked with at High Beam over the last five years. Go audit every single point in the customer journey and ask yourself, I assume I've got their attention right now. Attention is the easy thing. If I got a big enough budget, I can get your attention. The super bowl does it every single year. They get 150, 200 million Americans to watch their ads. Good luck naming more than five commercials from last year's Super Bowl. And you know why you can't name them? Because none of them caused a real emotion. But all of us still remember the Budweiser what's up Ads from over two decades ago. Because they made us laugh, they made us feel something. You know, that's, that's why they still stick out 20 years later. So go look at everything. Everything from the sales scripts to the follow up emails, to the landing page copy, to the videos you're running as ads, like literally everything, any content that revenging is putting out for you. And then ask yourself, is this causing an emotion and is it causing the emotion I actually want it to be causing, or is it causing a negative emotion? One of my favorite examples is if I go to your website and the loading page speed is very slow. That's a negative emotion. Now you've negatively influenced me. The summation of that formula now becomes a negative and that's not what you want. You cannot, uh, get any kind of lead, Scott, unless you get positive influence and get them to go fill out the lead form 100.

Speaker B: And one of my favorite questions in sales, which is going to give you all that I love channel, you and I are mentally in the same spot. We want data, we want to learn, we want to ask. One of my first questions in a sales call is why did you take this call? Why did you respond to our ad if it's from an ad too? Because that's going to tell us what did, how did we capture your attention and what emotion did it hit? And now to Chandler's point, now marketing and sales can work together on how do we do more of that, Especially if this is something that's an ideal customer and there's someone who buys. You know, Jesse, you asked what are some action steps? And Chandler, you said this in the first half. And I want to connect that dot for everyone if they haven't got it. Yes, A times E equals I. But I think you'll agree with if you don't first Fully understand, uh, in my opinion, a micro level, who your ICP is. You don't know how to capture their attention, to connect emotionally, to get the interest. And for me, when I work with my clients and I work with marketing teams like yours, Chandlers, let's define that icp, because if we don't have that locked down, it doesn't matter how great our script is, how great our copy, how, you know, beautiful. The, the, the actor or actresses is on the, on the tv, uh, commercial. We're. We're selling the wrong thing to someone who has no interest in it at all.

Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, if you don't know who your ideal customer is, that means you have to water down your message because you're trying to hit a larger, uh, demographic and you just. It's. It's. The world is too complicated. There's too many different channels to market on now. You can't do it anymore. It just, it does not exist as a realistic possibility. Uh, my favorite story about this is again, back to the Barbecue days is where I learned a lot of these hard lessons, which is why the barbecue restaurant no longer exists. I, uh, was working the register early on every single day because I didn't have money to pay for a staff, right? And I was having all these customer conversations because if you came into the restaurant, you were giving me money. I'm thinking, oh, icp, like, that's a good idea. Like, I need more of you to come in and give me more money than, uh, you know, when you look at an empty dining room, if you spend all that money to build it out, you're very much feeling, uh, bad emotions. I will tell you that I had my full attention and bad emotions. Um, and I would have these people come in every once in a while and be like, hey, do you guys have a salad? Like, do you have a salad? Can I get a salad?

Speaker D: Salad?

Speaker C: And it felt like a lot. You know how it is, Scott, like, when you're, when something is missing, humans have this tendency to really over focus on things that are lacking. You know, even though it may not be that big of a deal, like, we are really dialed in on it. And so I thought I had this huge demand for salads. And so I went out and a restaurant is like a factory. I installed a whole new line, a new unit, a new recipe. You know, we made everything from scratch. I was literally like hand shredding blocks of cheese, not just buying shredded cheese because that wasn't good enough. Like homemade, um, sauce, homemade ranch, homemade vinaigrette. Like all of it. Homemade, huge lift. And I, and I launched it in January, thinking, oh, I'm a smart guy. I'm going to put it with the new year, new me. I'm here to eat healthy. I'm not doing, um, the pulled pork anymore. And, uh, sure enough, I get to the end of the month looking at data, and we sold, um, I think 1.1 salads a day on average. So I did all that effort not knowing who my ideal customer was, and I missed it. So it's expensive when you get it

Speaker B: wrong, you know, My vegetable was at barbecue today. The carrot cake we had for dessert.

Speaker C: Beautiful. That's how it should be.

Speaker B: Vegetable to my friend Trevor. We got carrot cake. We're good. We ate all this beef and pork. We're good. We got carrot cake.

Speaker C: That's it. Cows eat lettuce, so it's fun. It's like a pasture.

Speaker A: Just a couple teaspoons of carrots with lots of flour and eggs and sugar.

Speaker C: And frosting.

Speaker B: Don't forget the frosting.

Speaker C: That's right.

Speaker B: Brown cinnamon, brown butter. Sorry, I'm going off on the side.

Speaker A: I love it. This is so good. Wow. Well, thank you for both getting into that topic with us. But let's make sure we transition into our last topic. More leads won't solve it. And I agree with this a lot. I think we have a problem with MQLs out there. Um, people want a lot of leads, but a lot of the time it's. It's not all the leads you want. You really just want a few leads who are quality. But I digress. I've got my reasoning. I'm curious from you, Scott. Can you kick us off on this topic?

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker B: I think you hit the nail on the head. It's in. In Tianlow. I know you and I probably are in agreement on this. We go out and get a lot of leads. But is it the right. And again to what you said at the beginning, do we know our icp? So we know what a good lead is and we can see how are they going through the funnel? What's the velocity again? Data. Data. If we have bad leads, that data is not going to tell us the right things and channel. Like you said, I, uh, love the salad story. We're going to sell 1.1 salads a month thinking that, you know, we should sell 100 a day. Right. So we've got leads. Don't solve it because we've got to make sure they're the right leads. Now let's assume, though, hey, Scott, they are the right leads. Marketing got you the best leads. They hit check every box. If you don't know how to continue that emotional journey, I'm going to steal some of Chandler's thunder from his formula. The emotion to equal interest to say, yes, I want to sign or want to buy. You're wasting a good lead. Uh, it's funny. I work with a lot of marketing companies because they get fired sometimes because they say, well, you said you're gonna get me 10 leads a week or 50 leads a month or whatever. And they're not closing any. And so therefore, what do they think? It's a bad lead. No, you don't know how to sell. So then they come in and we partner together and we show how great these leads are. Because again, if you know how to take that lead and nurture it through a sales cycle. And again, go back to my other topic we talked about system and process. How do we nurture it through a sales cycle? Understanding each piece of the sales funnel. So let's. That lead comes in, we're going to have a discovery call. Well, what's the goal of the discovery call if you're selling software? I tend to be more on the B2B side. It's to get them to say yes to a demo and or proposal call. But if you try to sell them to sign the contract and discovery call, well, you're going to lose them right away. So you have to know each stage to walk them through that journey and channel. You said earlier it's all about storytelling. Right? And again, why does sales and marketing have to work so well? Because you guys start the story. We have to take them to the finish, to the conclusion. The crescendo of, yes, I want this. And so leads don't. It's great to have leads, but if you don't know what to do with them and have a system in place, process and know how to walk them through a journey to, you know, sales to me is. Is. Is the bridge. Sales and marketing, excuse me, they're at point A. They see point B. Whether that's solving a problem at point A, a challenge, or we want to get into a better position to. To keep our company strong. Sales and marketing is about building that bridge from A to B. And I think on the sales side, when we get in there, we want to show them B can be even better in that it's believable. So, again, great that marketing gave me the best lead in the world. But if my sales team doesn't know how to handle it on that and walk through that journey. I just wasted marketing's money and what they did.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: 100. You think back to the 95. 5 rule, right? Like if 5% of the market is in market to buy and we got lucky enough to get a conversation with one of them and they're qualified and then we don't have the systems in place to actually go close the deal when we're already spending all this money trying to get and at that. And we're just going to strike out looking like, I don't care if you strike out, but you better swing the damn bat like, like you got one thing you got to do it is swing the bat. The only, uh, thing I would, I would add to that is that I think sometimes here's where the rift between marketing and sales comes in. At the end of the day there's different incentives and, and it. And it often comes down to the company's leadership to understand the differences of the marketing team's job and the sales team's job. The sales team job is to close today. And we have done this thing in business where we've let bean counters ruin business building. Business is not a linear sport. It is not something that it can just be run on spreadsheets. As much as we may like them. And m. As clear as the data may make the picture, it just doesn't work that way because again, humans buy with emotion and we justify with logic. And you just can't, you just can't predict that. And at the end of the day, marketing's job is to become the top of mind option. And you don't get to choose when somebody's ready to buy. But to your point, when they've decided they're ready to learn more, you better have some sort of system in place because a good marketing team has spent a lot of time and money building that relationship. And it's like we've got the ball. We just handed it off like, please, uh, to end with one more sports analogy, score the Damn thing.

Speaker B: Yeah, 100%. I know we're getting close to time. I'll just, yeah. I'll say the last thing to agree 100 with him. And that's why. And we've talked about a little bit, sales and marketing have to work together and they have to, they have to map that journey and that story because again, from the attention which marketing takes the lead on, how are we mapping that through a uh, buying journey for the client. And when we can get together the two sales and Marketing and do that together. It just uh, it flows smoothly and you're going to have a higher success rate.

Speaker A: Yeah, 100%. Thank you both for sharing that. I know from our perspective here at Revening, you know, we help businesses go live. So after an episode we might see, you know, if we're lucky, 50 to 100 attendees per episode. And those, you know, when you gate a live stream on LinkedIn, you can, or uh, when you go live on your company page, you can gate it and get all those email addresses. And so, you know, it's like, here you go, here's all your leads from the show, which they get super excited about. But you know, what typically happens is there's one, maybe two really good leads that come out of it and it'll typically be the people who came on the show who they had a really great conversation with, who were organized through like public relations, um, connections, um, and then the leads that come into the CRM, they take a ton of nurture and you know, workflow automations, they're you know, gonna read all your ebooks because they just came to one show. And so like, it's just my story of, you know, a lot to a little like there's a lot of leads and a lot of people get really excited by all those leads per episode. But really it's likely the person who either came on the show or maybe someone in the audience who's going to be interested. But if they are, they're likely going to go search your website and book a call with you. Um, because that's how I find dark social to work. I'd be curious what you both think about this. I mean, I was thinking about bringing it up earlier when we were talking about, I think it was the first topic, um, why the product wins or like sales, we're talking about data.

Speaker C: Uh, you just described the difference in MQLs versus SQLs. Like a marketing qualified lead to me is somebody that's in our icp, but maybe at a different stage of their business development. Like maybe they're the right industry but the wrong size. But guess what? If they do their job right, they're going to grow and maybe three years from now they're going to become a sales qualified lead. Our job is to nurture them for the next three years, pour into them, so that when they become an SQL, you know, Scott's incredible sales system will actually be the one that goes and closes them and gets them over the finish line. Like everybody. It's easy to focus on SQLs because SQLs pay the bills and I'm empathetic and I understand, I have, I mean, Scott, uh, you probably see this. 5% of businesses break a million dollars a year in revenue. 5%, that's from the SBA 5. It's nothing. It is. Shark Tank would have you believe. It's not that it's way higher. It's not, it is literally nothing. It's industry agnostic. Like you just like if you, if you, if you, if you just think in 90 day windows like you're a publicly traded company, you're going to lose. Now, if you are a publicly traded company, I got a whole other spiel for you and it's not going to be great. But like I'm telling you, if you focus on getting as many MQLs as possible with a focus on your ideal customer and nurture those relationships and then when they become SQLs, use Scott's system to go finish the thing. Like that is those are the teams that will grow and those are the businesses that actually will break the million dollars. And then in $10 million, I've seen plenty of businesses that do break a million get stuck between two and seven. It's crazy. And it's all a issue with systems at that size.

Speaker A: And Chandler, you know, I just have to shout you out too because you're one of the few founders who actually gets it that it takes three years. Those MQLs aren't garbage. You're right. We should celebrate them. But you know, my hesitation when I see teams celebrating it is they're thinking, oh, I'm going to close a deal here in the next month, maybe three. Well, first of all, think of your buying cycles. You're typically B2B. There's going to be a longer buying cycle. But also not everyone's ready to buy. Those MQL's aren't ready to buy. So yeah, no, hats off to you for, you know, understanding that.

Speaker C: And if you're B2B, you better go cold call some people. That's the only way you can do it. I mean, you're not a marketing, you don't, you don't have a marketing problem. You have a cold call problem. You're desperate and you need to go hope you get lucky and call somebody and they answer. Then you can move them through the script and all the things. But otherwise, like, that's not a marketing problem.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, Jesse, you said earlier like you got a whole bunch that dump in. You got over 100 people on, but maybe one or two buy like what's a funnel look like? We all know what a funnel looks like. And ah, yeah, and to channel both your points, some of that stuff at the top of the funnel, that's going to kick out. Some of it needs to kick out and go away. But as Chandler said, if we know we're locked in on our ICP and we know at the top they're still in our icp, but not today, they go into a, a much different funnel that takes a lot longer to go through. Nurture. Nurture. Until they're ready to jump into. All right, let's go through the shoot. And, and that's again, that's the partnership, it's understanding all that.

Speaker C: Listen, if I could guarantee lead quality, me and Scott would go start a company tomorrow and we'd be billionaires in 12 months. Like, do you think you're the first person on the planet to come up with the idea of, like, I need more quality leads? Like you and everybody else. Like, get over it. Like, this is not the game you're playing. Like, I don't know what to tell you. Like, if, yeah, if there's somebody that knew, it's me and Scott. Like, me and Scott would be able to tell you. This is a world. Like, we're not gate keeping. We don't run service businesses for the fun of it. It's because this is a, it's an art more than a science. It is a process.

Speaker A: Like, oh, so now we have the AI people telling us, but Manus can get you higher quality leads.

Speaker C: We'll see if Facebook gets to keep Manus. Uh, China's about to claw that back.

Speaker A: So that's a. Yeah, no, man is. But which makes me more curious about Manus. I'm like, man, it must be powerful. China's shutting it down. Um, but anyway, yeah, I digress. Uh, we. It's two minutes past, so I want to make sure we get to the guru of the week. We gotta commence that video for the guru of the week. The guru of the week. The guru of the week. I transitioned a little fast there. Yeah, I used to sing it live every week for 300 plus weeks. But we want to know who's your guru of the week. We just spent the last hour getting super interested in what you're saying. So who interests you on LinkedIn? Who can we go follow?

Speaker B: Scott?

Speaker C: I'll let you go first.

Speaker B: Oh, yeah, for me, you know, I thought about it and I go, they're only going to listen to one, so I want to give them one that if they only listen to this person. It's going to help them in both sales and marketing and in leadership, too. And that's Simon Sinek, the Golden Circle, and everything he talks about from a leadership. We talked about channel, you said 90 days. If you only focus on the 90 versus. You know, one of his favorite books starts with Y, and the other one is, um, the Infinite Game. He just follow him. He. If you just can do 10 of what he says in your sales and marketing, you're. You're gonna, you're gonna exponentially move the needle for your company.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: I'm so glad you mentioned the Infinite Game. That is a book I recommend to basically every founder I meet with. Because the basic premise of that book, if you don't know, is that there are finite games in life, like baseball, agreed upon players, agreed upon rules, agreed upon teams, and there's agreed upon ending, and then there's infinite games. Like, uh, a barbecue restaurant in Lexington. The last time I checked, I haven't sold barbecue in six years in that city. And I go on Google sometimes, and there's plenty of barbecue restaurants that are still slinging meat in the city. And so the game has continued on even though special ole me is no longer there to play. So, uh, yeah, that is a great recommendation. You are not as important as you think you are, and the faster you realize that, the better your life will be. My, uh, influencer would be, who I've mentioned a couple times, Les Benetti. Uh, he's a really smart guy. He really, um, he's the only marketer I've met, or not met, I should say, but. But learned from that. Has actually found a really good way to combine data with some of this emotion stuff that we've been talking about. So. L E S B I N E T. Uh, but he's on LinkedIn and he's a great follow.

Speaker A: Nice. Well, thank you both so much for sharing your gurus of the week. We'll have to tag them in the comments and go find them. And then last but not least, could you both tell us a little bit more about yourself? Who did you serve, how you serve them, and if they could be served by you, how do they reach you? Chandler? Yeah.

Speaker C: So high beammarketing.com is a great place to get us. I'm on LinkedIn, Instagram, YouTube, all the platforms. You can just search either high beam or you can search my name, Chandler Lyles. Um, I would say a good fit for us from an ICP standpoint. Let's see how well I can do this. Scott. Uh, if you are a direct to consumer brand, selling things online, doing between, you know, one and $10 million a year, like that's a really nice sweet spot for us. Bonus points if you have a Shopify website. Those are all green flags.

Speaker B: Good job.

Speaker C: You notice how I stay out of

Speaker B: the lead business guy?

Speaker C: Yeah, I'd stay out of the lead business. Lead gen is a. That takes a special person to know, special team, special budget, all the things to actually do that well.

Speaker B: Absolutely. Awesome. Uh, um, yeah, for me. Pleasure by the way, to be with both you guys. Learned so much and look forward to continue relationships. Sales scalers are our ICP is that founder led business. B2B. That's been my background B2B probably between 1 to 25 million. The founder still wears that sales leader hat. Not top sales person way too much. And we like my book, just my new book that just came out. Sales yet in infractionally come in and put that right. Go to market engine in place which is working with someone like Chandler and us in bringing that together. So the founder can then just go become the CEO and the visionary and let the dollars start flowing in because they have a system in process in the right engine so that they can have dependable revenue and growth.

Speaker A: Zane, thank you both so much for coming on the show. We really appreciate it. It's been such a great conversation and I will see you both backstage and everyone else will see you next week. Be sure to catch Wednesday on all of your favorite podcast platforms. Um, and otherwise, we record live here every Wednesday. Thanks a lot, everyone.

Speaker B: It.