How AI, Automation, and GEO Are Driving Marketing Growth

Speaker A: Us your full life story in two minutes. Mhm. Sa. Mhm. High Level is a full CRM and marketing platform and I've used some of the best in the SaaS industry. Sam. And we are live on LinkedIn, YouTube, X Instagram, and I think that's it. Did I say Twitch? Welcome to Wednesday. Oh my gosh. I was almost thinking Wednesday might not happen. We like cancellation after cancellation, but that is another story for another day. People, people have things come up. We understand and we're happy to move forward with tonight's guests who are so cool rolling with the punches. It's going to be a great conversation. We're talking about geo, AI automation and what's. That's a lot of noise. There's a lot of noise around both of those things right now and honestly I'm a little sick about talking about them. So let's talk about how to make them more human. But we're going to be doing that tonight with our guests, who I'm going to bring on here in just a moment. But before I do, you know I have to tell you a little bit about Streamyard. So Streamyard is what we're using to go live right now and we are Streamyard affiliates here at Revening and we would like to invite you to also try Streamyard. So LinkedIn, it doesn't actually have the live streaming capabilities built in, so you do have to use a third party platform. And Streamyard is a LinkedIn preferred vendor, so. So they don't like third parties, but they do have a list. You can go Google it or use your LLM. There is a LinkedIn support list that will give you a list of all of their preferred live streaming vendors and Streamyard is one of them. I'm going to put my affiliate link up on the screen, but if you are listening on podcast just send me an email to jessieviting.com would be happy to help you get set up on Streamyard. Um, but also if you don't want to do it yourself, you may just want to work with us here at Reviting and we do it for you. We help you book your guests, we help you do the intro video, the outro video, all the production. I digress. You'll be hearing more about that tonight. But also going to mention High level. So high level, I just saw someone signed up on the affiliate link two days ago. So people are still listening to this, so I'll keep mentioning it. Um, I like their affiliate program because it's a 40% commission and um, they have A really easy to use platform that has all the bells and whistles that you'd find in those big CRMs and marketing automation platforms. But it's only $97 a month and you get three accounts. So we've fully adopted it. Here at Reveng we have the agency version so if you sign up for revending you get our white labeled version app.reviting.com um, so that we can show you your leads right in a CRM and also give you like marketing automation and all these other things that you might need. Um, but anyway, I digress. Let's on our guests for tonight. Welcome to the show. We've got Molly McKinley and Micah Stone who are able to join us. Thank you for being here.

Speaker B: Hi. So good, thank you for having us.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Well, in good old fashioned Wednesday style we want to. We've got Boris Lav in the comments. Hello, anyone else by the way, in the comments like join our conversation. We want to hear from you. Where are you tuning in from tonight? We're going to get introductions from our guests here but give us your introduction. If you're tuning in like what do you do? Um, you know, where are you from? And we want to know who we're speaking to and we'll tailor this conversation for you. But um, in good old fashioned Wednesday style we'll put our two minute clock up on the screen and then um, we will ask you to tell your full life story from birth to what brought you to now in two minutes. Micah, can you kick us off?

Speaker C: Sure. Um, so I grew up in Seattle and I've spent my whole career working in startups, um, mostly tech companies. Um, you know my background's in data and analytics and so I'm very analytic driven, analytic focused and I brought that over to the marketing side of the equation. Um, my first job was in ad tech where I helped build algorithms on the old Facebook platform. Um, way back in the day it was this big real time bidding thing and we um, spent a lot of money trying to figure out how to buy ads really efficiently. Um, then I moved into um, the client side and worked as the director of marketing at Ring. Helped Ring grow, um, through the sale with Amazon, um, and then worked at a few other consumer companies, did some consulting. Um, and more recently I worked at a company called Latch. Um, and then now I'm at a company called Ember. Um, I also do some consulting. Um, on the side it's marketing consulting but really from again the data and analytical lens of uh, trying to understand, you know, not just the messaging, but what's working with the business and how to track things, um, as closely as possible through looking through numbers, looking through, um, spreadsheets, dashboards, whatever is needed to understand how to improve the business. Um, whether that's. Grow the business on the revenue side, improve customer support, um, help the sales team understand what's going on really anywhere across the business. Business.

Speaker A: Incredible. Well, you fit right in with the Wednesday crew here because we, we have a lot of data centric people here. Um, in fact, Data Ghost, they're uh, they were a B2B data company and they were acquired early on and they credited their acquisition to Reviting because they got their first hundred users from sponsoring us. Um, and then I'm also fractional CMO at a B2C consumer exchange platform. Um, B2B consumer data exchange platform, BDEX. Um, they're doing some awesome stuff with AI machine learning. Um, but I digress. We love strategy, we love marketing, and we love data on this show. So you're in the right place. Thanks for being here. And Molly, we'd love to hear from you too. What makes you human. Um, and in two minutes, from birth to what brought you to now.

Speaker B: Wow. Uh, from birth. I love that, by the way. Um, so I guess I would start with. I was the kid that always had the lemonade stand. Um, you know, I grew up with my uncles as entrepreneurs and you know, you sort of listen, listening then to them always talk about being the captain of your own ship. They were actually sailors. Um, and so I just had that imprint really early that I knew I was going to um, run my own business. Um, so I ended up, I grew up in Ohio. We have that in common. And um, you know, made my way out west where I, uh, ran art galleries. Um, uh, I was an art history and fine art major. And uh, to my parents dismay, um, they didn't think I would use the degree, but I actually do all the time. Um, as visual language. But, uh, ran art galleries in San Francisco. That transferred me into a sort of sliding doors moment where I started to um, get into m marketing and PR in uh, uh, the 90s in San Francisco. Um, and that's really where I got my PR start. Um, and I have been doing it ever since. And um, what do I have been. So I guess the uh, the challenge is, you know, um, you know, we've gone through all these bumps in marketing and strategy, um, and now we're sort of full circle moment. Um, back with Priority, my cool project that I'm working On right now is I've switched back into ah, solopreneurship because I was just uh, named as the founding director of Meredith College, uh, the only accredited business college for women in our country. Um, is launching ah, an entrepreneurship, uh, center of impact and I get to create that for North Carolina. Um, so that is my really big project that I'm really excited about and is sort uh, of pulling everything that I've learned along the way over the last 30 years or so, um, into sort of ah, legacy work. So that's, that's who I am.

Speaker A: Amazing. Well, thank you for sharing that. And yes, we both have the Columbus area connection. So I'm in the Westerville suburb of Columbus. And you're. You were, you grew up in Dublin. I grew up in Al. Yes, but now you're in Raleigh. But you also went in California. I lived in California as well and loved art, but never did art history. I love the background. Thank you both for being here. This is going to be a great discussion. Which, speaking of, let's jump right into our first topic that Micah is kicking off. Marketing tactics that drive growth. So take it away, Maika.

Speaker C: Yeah, so you know, as I mentioned, I'm very data driven and analytical with how I think about things and I think that really is what drives growth and how to drive growth effectively. Basically what I do is I just try to think in funnels and understand, okay, if I start at the top of the funnel, like what is it that I need to do to maximize the number of users who will get me to the next step. And when I talk about funnels, you know, there's a traditional M marketing funnel. When talking about, you know, I have a, I want awareness, I want, you know, people to consider the product, people buy the product. I'm not even necessarily talking about that specifically. I think there's a bunch of different funnels that come into your business that affect your business in different ways. And so, you know, uh, what I try to do is identify what those stages are that people are coming through the business, um, and whether that ends up with them purchasing something, whether that ends up with them, um, generating a lead, whether that's a recruiting thing, just trying to understand what is the goal and then what is the first step and then filling in all the steps in between. And once you have a good roadmap of what that looks like, what I try to do is figure out how to test, you know, I've, when I talk to people about what's my, what's my strategy, how do I do marketing. What's the most effective thing for me? I just say, test, test, test, test, test. And I'm always thinking about how we can set up a effective test to understand what's working, what's not working, and how to do more of what's working. And constantly looking for efficiencies and understanding. Okay, you know, is this driving growth? Is the first question, yes or no? Where is it driving growth in that funnel? Is it driving it at the top of the funnel? Is it driving it further down the funnel? And then just trying to basically get as many people to move through the funnel as possible with as much, um, as many different tests as we can run at the same time. And so I want to understand, okay, if I am going to dial a knob up here, how does that affect the rest of the funnel? If I am going to try and send more people through the funnel, how can I get the funnel to be more efficient? And just constantly iterating on that, trying to understand what part of it is working and then what part of it you can iterate on even more. I think one of the things that I've been really excited about with AI is just the fact that it allows you to do more testing and testing a lot faster, uh, with fewer resources needed. I know I'm going to be talking a little bit about some AI stuff a little bit later on and really excited to dive into that because I think that has made growth a lot easier and, um, helped with a lot of the understanding the funnel, the analysis of the funnel. And then we're figuring out where to push things and then being able to test not just three things, let's say nine things, 10 things without a whole bunch of extra lift.

Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. Well, I can appreciate that. What would, what would you say would be the average amount of time you give a test?

Speaker C: It's a good question. You know, I, I am not the kind of person who's. Wait, I'm pretty impatient. Um, I'm not waiting around for statistical significance a lot of the time. Uh, you know, I think it depends on the volume of stuff coming in. Basically, you know, if you're getting a few clicks a day, then it's going to take a lot longer. If you're getting a higher volume, it's going to be a lot shorter. But I do think there is value in looking at the numbers as they come in and not just waiting until, you know, it's reached some kind of mythical P value or something like that. To me, it's really important to kind of see how things are happening in real time. And you can get some directional information early on without, um, you know, you can statistically argue maybe that's just noise or that's not where it's going to end up. But if you have a good strong hypothesis and you know, the data is either proving your hypothesis or proving your hypothesis wrong, then it's okay. Sometimes I think to say, okay, we feel like we have good information here. Let's move on to the next test. Um, because I think the most important part of all this is speed. The more tests you can run, the more information you get back, the more, um, you can turn that into more testing and more growth. Um, and so speed is kind of the critical third piece of that for sure.

Speaker A: What's your take on all this, Molly?

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, you know, I, I come from a background where, um, I am old school pr, where everything was earned. And so for me, you know, I always was sort of uncomfy in this growth hacking stage, um, of the. I think we're coming out of where everything was, uh, uh, it was all about pushing boundaries and pushing limits. And, and my take was always like, well, is that right for the customer? Is that how you would want to be spoken to? Is that how you would want to be engaged with? And so I was always in this weird tension of like, how do you drive growth without being spammy? You know, how do you have a conversation without, you know, asking for someone's commitment before they even, you know, knew who you were? You know, and so I was always in this really uncomfy spot of, um, trying to understand, like, how do you grow appropriately? How do you grow over time and how do you grow in a way that like, builds loyalty, um, and not just sort of hacking things? M. And so I agree, like, I love to test and I do love data too. Um, but my perspective always was like, hey, like, how do, how would I feel on the receiving end of this? And is that going to do anything over time and for the long haul to build and earn trust? Um, and that's sort of my, sort of my, my litmus test of should we do this or not?

Speaker A: Yeah, great point. Absolutely. I definitely can see it from both sides. I've got a comment here. Building growth that drive loyalty. That's a great perspective. Yes, growth that drives loyalty. So automation and AI is kind of taking over everything. Um, but how do we keep that human element in there so that it doesn't feel spammy? What's your take on that, Micah?

Speaker C: You know, I Think, uh, I agree as well. I mean, I think, you know, when I talk about speed and iteration and testing, I don't, I am like, do not spam people. I strongly agree that it's important, important to, um, make the person feel like they're being cared for. And I do think with AI, that's becoming more possible. I think that people are going to be able to get an experience that's more customized and personalized to them. And there's certainly a little bit of maybe this is creepy or maybe this is a little bit wrong, but I think if it's done in the right way, it can actually feel really nice as a user that your needs are being taken care of, like what you want to have happen is actually going to happen. I feel like a lot of times, um, companies offer a product that appeals to the widest range of people possible, and that's great. I mean, that's kind of what they do to stay in business. They want to just grow the pie as much as possible. But that means if you're on either edge of the users in that you feel like maybe the product's not made for you. And so as AI enables people to have, uh, products and marketing to those people on the edges a little bit better and say, hey, maybe 90% of these features aren't made for you, but these 10% are really good. So you get to get emails or you get to get, uh, information about those 10% of features that are relevant to you. All of a sudden it becomes more useful and you become a little bit of a happier customer. I know I'm painting a rosy picture and the, there's so many ways that this could go wrong. But I do think that, uh, there is potential for this to be done really well and give people an opportunity to get marketing that speaks to them a little bit better.

Speaker A: Definitely 100%. So marketing tactics that drive growth. I can't help but wonder before we change topics to ask both of you, like, obviously the tactic of choice that we really kind of focus in on here is LinkedIn Live. Um, we've repurposed that to podcast short form video. But is there any specific tactic you've been finding lately that is really, uh, beneficial or that you like, really like using or is generating a lot of revenue for the clients you're working with?

Speaker B: Do you want to go Micah? And then.

Speaker C: Yeah, sure. You know, I've seen a little bit of a renaissance in Google Ads. I think for a long time Google Ads were, um, maybe a little bit what I just Talked about where they kind of were just appealing to the lowest common denominator of users. And with some of these AI tools what we've been able to do is make ads that are relevant to a very narrow slice of people and then also make landing pages and again talking about that funnel. So it's really specific to someone. So instead of trying to appeal to a broad audience, appealing to a very specific audience with a solution to their problem. Um, and I think the ads have just been a lot higher in terms of click through rates and in terms of conversion rates than probably would have been reasonably possible before. It just would have cost a lot of time, energy, resources, money to make what we've been able to make. And so um, I think it's kind of funny. I guess all this stuff goes in circles. I think for a long time Google Ads were just kind of out of like um, uh, not as popular. And I think it's going to come back um, even as more and more Google searches are moving to AI platforms and things like that, um, it's still been quite effective for some of the things we've been doing.

Speaker B: Yeah. And for me I think the thing I'm doing right now that I'm really seeing uh, everything come together is um, I'm thinking in clusters. Um, and so if there is a topical pillar that we're trying to um, have authority on, for example, then I'm thinking about well who else has authority in that area? Um, what awards represent or honor authority in that area? Is there a conference or a speaking opportunity in that area? Um, what kind of conversations should we be having um, in this clustered topic and really structuring the page um, around ah, sort of topical authority instead of um, more linear as that we used to do it in the past. Um, and really thinking through like how do we um, have this sort of same as conversation where uh, this uh, you know an awards page is really linking to a conversation within a blog for example. And um, it's nothing dramatic, it's just a shift in thinking um, that is really structuring content well that um, and we're getting results in terms of AI actually um, being visible in AI and then being recommended in AI from what we can tell.

Speaker A: Absolutely, yes. Well since we have you full stage, would you mind kicking us off on the next topic Molly, which is adding GEO as a service line. Sure.

Speaker B: So I think we're just in this really weird moment right now where um, you know I uh, for speaking from a personal perspective and getting hired to help people create visitors And AI M, which obviously GEO is Generative Engine Optimization. Right. And that is the how, how are you found within um an AI or how you recommend it as part of a conversation with an AI agent. But we're in this weird moment where people are still in this gotcha, this is AI um kind of um moment and it's just, it's odd to me um, that we're still sort of um, being asked to have AI authority but then people are gotcha, you're using AI. So I definitely want to call that out because I think any other consultants out there that's going to be something that really resonates and I'm not quite sure how to work around that um, as we uh, start to introduce GEO as a service line for example. But for me you know I started um, my background, you know again PR earned media, um, that right now with GEO is one of the things that sends the highest authority signal. Right, right. Because it's third party validation and anything ah, third party validated um, as humans or as machines um, has a different signal to it um, that creates uh, trust. So the way I look at these sort of geo, uh as a service line is really kind of thinking about it holistically. So adding SEO, Search Engine optimization, adding aeo, uh, Answer Engine optimization and adding GEO together um, because it's really hard uh to separate any of them um because they're all working together. I think the traditional SEO folks who are technically adept at structured content are really great, are in a really great position uh to take advantage of adding GEO as a service line. And then I think on the other side of it, uh, traditional PR folks who understand how to have uh build relationship with the media, you know, what relationships matter, what publications actually carry higher ah authority signals, um, those folks are also in a great position I think to uh, start to add it as a service line. So you know it's just a, kind of a tricky moment right now because we have such camps of people uh, who are still resisting AI and are sort of gotcha, you know, we've ruined the EM dash forever. And then you know, which is sad um, but true. But then you have people uh, who are asking for visibility and so we definitely need to um, to figure out how to position this and how to position AI expertise in a way m, while we're in the wild west, um, to set expectations, uh you know, and, and not let that the use of AI as, as we build with AI as a service line um, affect our own credibility and relationship. So it's A very weird time. Uh, and we should be thinking about lots of those things.

Speaker A: Awesome. Uh, yeah, we absolutely should. I know I should be thinking about it a lot more. How about you, Maika? Uh, have you started thinking about geo?

Speaker C: I have and I've tried it out. You know, I, I have some reservations about it, I think, because I just don't understand it very well. You know, I think the strategy from the people I've talked to seems to be just get as much media as possible, posts on Reddit and just basically getting as much content as possible. And I just, you, uh, know, thinking about how LLMs actually work, how they make recommendations, I don't understand how that would work. Like, these LLMs can't be manipulated in the same kind of way and they don't function like Google or any of the other search engines do for SEO. And so I am a little bit cautious about it because I just don't get how it's working or how it's intended to work to drive more visibility from the LLM. Um, I don't think they're as easily kind of gamed or manipulated as, um, search engines definitely used to be. Um, and even today, like, there's, there's not the same kind of like, structure around it as SEO has, obviously.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I would love to bounce in that too because I think that's one of the reasons, um, that I love it so much because it really is earned. You know, the LLMs don't want to get it wrong and their ability to get something right, um, over and over again is what builds the trust with us as users. And so understanding that creating the sort of surround sound verification that this is this, um, and that it's okay to recommend it, it's okay and safe to recommend this, um, is really the name of the game. So you can't really game it. It is earned. Um, and I really. So again, that's why I like to think about in clusters, like, if I, as a human, what are all of the authority signals that I have, uh, or that I use to make a good decision, um, and discern this between this or that and using that same sort of, you know, discernment as it relates to how an AI would, um, also make the decision. Um, and so it's like the assistant who has read absolutely everything. So if your web copy, um, is saying one thing and your reviews say another, you're not going, it's going to not resonate, right. There's going to be some dissonance. Um, but if your reviews are great and are saying the one thing your web copy lines up, you're, you know, in a publication saying the same thing, and you have a book that talks about it and a YouTube channel. All of those things are like, yes, yes, yes, this equals this. And that's where it starts to compound and make sense. So we really are kind of going back into this omnichannel, um, surround sound, like how. Making sure that everything is clean and lined up and consistent, um, so that we can give confidence. Um, because frankly, you know, even with humans, like, if someone says, you know something and it's not quite right, you know, it breaks our trust. And AI, um, and the LLMs are just able to scan at scale. Um, and so it really kind of feels like a very, um, human skill in a lot of ways.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah.

Speaker C: I think it's a really interesting point. So do you think that having, like, consistent messaging is better than, like, volume? Like, what, what's the actual strategy there for?

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think if you foundationally have inconsistency, you're in trouble.

Speaker A: Right?

Speaker B: Because just like humans, if you say, hey, my favorite color is blue, and then you turn over here and say, my color, favorite color is blue, black, Then the person's like, wait a minute, you just said it was blue. And sort of that same thing, I think, is happening with the AI agents. Right. And so, first of all, get everything super tidy, super consistent. Right? And that's where that messaging comes into play. But then I think it's the, it's the layers on top of it. So it's not just what I'm saying or what I'm pushing out with an ad. It's like, what else is being said about that thing? And can I trust the other signals well enough to say that, you know, that this is, is something that I'm willing to hedge a bet on. I mean, because that's essentially what it's. What's happening if someone's having a conversation, um, you know, within, uh, an AI agent. Within their AI agent. Right. Like, the AI has to decide who, you know, who do they. What do they know, or what can they see that they would recommend. And you know, again, it's not so different than the way we consume as humans. You know, we sort of collectively think about everybody we know. And I do a lot of work with prop tech companies and sort of the saying is, every. Every, um, you know, consumer knows at least five to six real estate agents. And so how do you know which one you know to refer? Uh, and it usually Comes down to, you know, direct experience. You know, you've recently talked to them. So there, there's freshness there, you know, and that there's a level of trust and that, you know, there's a. Again, it's resonance, um, like, you know, you're vibing with what they're saying. And I really think it's, uh. We're kind of in the same boat, uh, with AI. And that's how I'm approaching it. Sort of like nothing can be, uh, you can't hide things anymore. It used to be you have a bad review, you just bury it, you know, with a bunch of good reviews, you know, you have, ah, you know, you just can't do that stuff anymore because it's all visible. Um, even the stuff you're trying to hide is still visible. Um, and so a lot of the work right now with GEO as a service line is just auditing. Like, what is the AI picking up? What are they seeing? And then based on what they're seeing, we know how to fix it and maneuver. But, um, I'm spending a lot of time just auditing, um, just to try to understand what. And then I love to actually, you know, work with. I work with Claude and you know, just look at the thinking of, of all of the different steps of their interactioning and trying to decide, like, actually when you're in the query. And that also is super insightful in terms of, like, okay, so pulling these resources, thinking about these things. Uh, I need to make sure that that's part of my strategy next time.

Speaker C: Have you. Have you seen that, um, as there's been new model releases, it's changed or has there been kind of consistency between the new models?

Speaker B: I think it's exponentially changing, um, so much. In fact, I'm writing a book right now called Trust and Authority. And, um, I started the book, uh, writing. And this is really where I developed my aptitude with AI. I started a little over a year ago and, uh, was using the project, um, initially, um, as AI, as my book editor, um, and you know, asking me questions and then giving me prompts. And then I go off and do my writing and then we have a conversation and uh, you know, LLM doing what it does best and that's organizing thoughts, sequencing, you know, creating a more structured argument. Right. Pattern. Pattern recognition. But now a year later into this book, you know, it is the quality of the dynamic. And that's also because there's literally, uh, thousands and thousands of words that we have done on this particular project together. But there is a level of sentience, uh, or sentientness that is starting to emerge and I don't know if others are experiencing that or if it's just because this project um, that I've been working on with my AI for a year is so deep and rich now because the process um, but I, I think I'm like literally blown away. Um, it, you know and, and the other piece of my story I didn't share, but it is relevant is you know I've taught Yoga for over 25 years. So for me having this really deep yoga background and uh, obviously my books behind me, like I read a book a week, you know, really deep self study or um, the mimicking and the echoing now with the AI is uh, just, it is, it has absolutely learned my voice, even the way I uh, think about things. So yeah, we're in scary times. Um, but also potentially amazing.

Speaker A: Absolutely, yes. Now this is such an interesting conversation and um, thank you for bringing us up to speed on the knowledge that you have with geo Molly. I know we only got a little smidget of it but um, I mean it kind of sounds like you know, we need to be getting things across all mediums being consistent in our message and expertise. Um, but that like the old, you know, getting mentioned on other authoritative websites is still really important because LLMs look at web authority similar to search engines. Um, and I'll give the example of podcasts, um, is something that gets scanned and put into the LLMs as well. So you know, I think building content is important. Yes, but it does also come down to building web pages and having consistent messaging. But um, I don't know, I'm happy to be uh, if there's anyone out there to disagree with me. You can also like I think you gave a really good advice on just ask the LLM, you know as well like you could even go into the LLM and ask it like how do I um, how do I get noticed, uh, more on this LLM or you know, and they might not tell you um, like exactly what they know about you and an answer like that but they will give you the step by step instructions of how to start building that authority. So um, yeah, I guess just a vibe coding GEO idea there but. Any other last response to close us out, Molly?

Speaker B: I do well and especially because the POD is a, is a great, ah, a great mention because the pod, when you think about what happens is you have a recording which gives you a transcript, right? And if you actually like do this and you're Live streaming it or it goes on YouTube then you get multiple channels and then if you publish or amplify through like a Buzzsprout or whatever that is you get numerous like, like 20 ah, 20 different amplification channels, our distribution channels. And if all of those places are consistent with transcripts and timestamps and link backs and all of the things, it's really a great um, maybe even the best thing um, to earn, excuse me, to own, to really make sure that you are feeding consistency across channels just by the very nature of uh, of how they are distributed, uh, you know, through, you know like, through like the Buzzsprout or whatever it is that's the one I use. So. But I just really think that's a great example of how one conversation in a pod can actually give you surround sound content. Um, that should live primarily on your blog as the anchor um, to your uh, to your um, point Micah. Ah, about having those, you know, that page, the pager or the home base on your own um, site and then linking back to all of those places, um, it's really sort of, it really is kind of gold.

Speaker A: Definitely good stuff. Well, we've got two more really great topics to get into. We're going to be talking about using AI to support marketing execution and balancing automation and human sales. But before we get to those topics we have a brief message from our sponsors but also from Reveng ourselves here. We'll be right back.

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Speaker A: For me one of the problems that we struggle with is getting our brand out there. Her team have been able to do for us is the idea of going live on LinkedIn and using that platform to its fullest extent through the way they're able to take the live event and break it down into bite sized posts, video clips as well as the content with in the posts themselves. Awesome. Uh, thank you for sticking around for our brief messages and we're going to get back into our conversation. So the next one is using AI to support marketing execution. Maika, could you kick us off?

Speaker C: Yeah, sure. I'm excited to talk about this. You know, I think when I talk to a lot of people about how they use AI, it's a lot of chatbots creating marketing copy, maybe bouncing ideas off of it, um, generating images, things like that and all that has been amazing and I definitely use it for that. But what's really got me excited about AI for marketing execution recently has been some of the new things from the AI, like desktop apps. My favorite one I'm you've been using is Codex and it's, it's amazing in so many ways because it can connect to all these different platforms via uh, the command line operator. It can connect basically through APIs, uh, and be able to execute things on um, different platforms like Facebook or LinkedIn or Google. But it can also connect, um, just using your browser and it can basically take over your computer and do things on your behalf. Um, the way I've been using this is for a lot of the different marketing campaigns. Let's say AdWords or Meta. Uh, what I have it do is basically it's connected into them, it's pulling the reports in and showing me the data and then I'm just having a conversation with it and then from that conversation giving it some action items and saying add these keywords, get rid of these keywords, change the bids here, change this here. Let's try some new copy let's try some new landing, uh, page iterations. And just doing that basically from the one Codex app, I'm not going into the platform anymore. I'm not clicking a million buttons, uh, and I just let it run. There's still the human in the loop aspect where I'm doing a lot of the work and a lot of the thinking. But uh, at the same time there's not a lot of the monotonous stuff you have to do to, to kind of wade through these platforms and do what you want to do. And you can kick it off and have it run for an hour while you're doing something else. It's just been absolutely amazing to see how that works. Um, and it's all able to. Just the challenging part before would be okay, how do I connect to these APIs? It can basically connect itself. And so I say, hey, I want to connect to the Google Ads API. Here's my account number. Go figure out how to do it. You have to log in and maybe do some stuff like that. But it's able to get connected. Um, you can give it parameters like don't push anything, live without my explicit approval and just put some safeguards in place to help with that. Um, something like LinkedIn. I'm not able to connect to their ads platform through their API, but it's able to do the browser stuff. Basically I just give it a browser, give it the LinkedIn page, tell it what I want to do and it goes through again and clicks and, and kind of optimizes everything based on what I'm explaining. Uh, and so that's been really, really nice on the demand generation side of things. And then on the actual website stuff and landing pages, it's just also been pretty amazing. Uh, previously you'd need a big design team, you need a big developer team. It take weeks or months to build landing pages or homepages. Uh, again it's just, you have a conversation with it. Um, there's other really great tools, like cloud design is really nice to get a design and then you take the design and you give it to Codex or Claude code and it goes and connects into Shopify or whatever, um, your different website is. It can just build it out. Uh, as we're talking right now, I have a Codex agent running in the background, um, working on a website, optimizing it, building this landing page that I had it designed earlier. And again, I think going back to our initial conversation, this just really helps figuring out and doing testing and understanding what's going to resonate with people getting really tight feedback loops where you're able to analyze the data and then plug it into these AI systems, uh, and get feedback and understand sort of what people like, what people are clicking on, what people are, what's resonating with people, uh, and trying to really personalize it as much as possible. And so building out 300 landing pages wouldn't have been possible, but now maybe it is possible and figuring out again, what are the features, what are the things that resonate with specific groups of people. Uh, I think this stuff is just getting better and better. I had the Claude code Fable access for the three or four days, uh, before it got banned. And that was, I mean, just unbelievable. Uh, I was waking up in the middle of the night to kind of keep it going and just having it run almost 24 hours because just so powerful in what's, what it's been able to do. And so, uh, I've just been really, really excited to be able to use these. Uh, you know, to me they're more powerful than I think a lot of people realize at this point.

Speaker A: 100%, yes. I just installed Codex on my computer this week as well. Um, and I've been having IT implement, uh, things on Google Calendars and um, a whole bunch of other stuff. But we have my brother here in the comments. Josh Coleman, um, my closest in age sibling. I don't think I've ever seen you in the comments of my show. You are awesome. Josh. What are you doing with Codex? My brother Josh is actually building some things. I don't know if you've shared any of it, Josh, or is it stealth? Can I share? I don't know. Um, but yeah, Josh is doing some cool things. Connect with my brother Josh, if you're here. Um, but anyway, yeah, I would love to hear too what Molly has to think on using AI to support marketing, execution and any of the stuff that Maika was talking about.

Speaker B: Yeah, not so different, um, using it a lot of the same ways for me, um, again I'm sort of locked into Claude because I've spent the most time training my Claude projects. Um, but connecting to Claude code and being able to connect directly to Airtable and you know, create, uh, and gamma and create presentations really fast and having beautiful reports and you know, all of these things that I used to have to spend time on are now so, so simple. Um, the challenge, I think where we still are is, you know, I spend all of the time up front right in the briefing doc. And that's my thinking, you know, going on um, a page and then setting it into the project board. And we still really are into this moment where you have to be careful because a lot of some of the essence of the, the experience or the lived experience actually gets um, it's not as clean as I would want it to be. Um, but it's so much easier to edit than from something that you know, like for example you know a document that I have then used in gamma and then it gives a presentation and then I get to edit from there. Um, instead of having to have uh, that labor and that design time in the mix. Um, but yeah, not so different um, with what Micah is saying is I like example for pitching um, media. I used to have to spend a lot of time scanning through the web finding articles, trying to understand voice, who they are, what they care about, what are some trends and what they're looking for. Um, and now I am able to like go on their LinkedIn and pull their information and um, I have you know, training for that of what I want to know and it's giving me a ah, synopsis of something that would have taken me probably an hour and now it's just, it's just minutes and it's better information um, now. And I also you know think that there, there used to be a lot of hallucination happening and I don't see that as much either. Um, um, I also have, I mean mostly everybody has done the same thing where we've trained our eyes to make sure that they only have verified information, you know, and that they have live links to validate so that we aren't getting that false data the way that we were when we first started using it um, a year ago. But that to me is the exciting part. It just. And again is that an optimization production, product production tool? Probably. Um, but being able to take my work and throw it into the airtable, um, so my reporting then with the data in airtable is just so much swifter. I mean it's just that is like a dream um, because I used to be living in spreadsheets, um, you know, so that we could be accountable and report back to clients. But now it's like literally um, just a automatic connection.

Speaker A: Absolutely. I love hearing that. Well, um, we've got another comment. I'll read it out loud. From Josh Coleman, my brother. I've used it as like oh my gosh, my contacts. I have used it to create a trade specific estimating website, an uber like mowing site and working on an iOS app, created a website for my Town about E Bike safety. Currently it's running a diagnostic tool for my PC. I'm using it to make a web based sandbox, video game and lots of things. Yes, you told me about the lawn mowing Uber thing, which is pretty cool. Um, so there's a lot more in there. And I guess I did know about the like trade specific estimating website. So, uh, what's else? It's saying I'm rubber, you include whatever you say. Okay. Um, I don't even know what to say to that, Josh. But yeah, no, I love AI. I love that you're building all of that with Codex. Um, thank you for sharing that and thank you both of you for getting into AI, um, and how to support marketing execution with it. Let's move into our last topic before we lose time, uh, because we also have the guru of the week, um, which is where we ask both of you to share someone who inspires you, um, who creates content and inspires you either on LinkedIn, ideally on LinkedIn, maybe podcast, maybe somewhere else. Um, but our last topic before we get to guru of the week is balancing automation and human sales. Can you kick us off on this, Molly? Sure.

Speaker B: Um, yeah. This is something I am actually really passionate about. Um, because I do think as AI becomes um, more and more prominent, the ask of us, as conscious humans becomes higher and higher. Um, and most of the AI founders are saying the same thing like the skills for. And again, because I teach entrepreneurship at Meredith College, I'm um, very, very uh, tapped into job, like entry level jobs for, for my young people and stuff. So what I'm seeing is this ask for. How do we become um, our. What, what are the things that make us uniquely human? And um, what things can't be bypassed with AI? Creativity, um, discernment, you know, resilience, critical thinking, you know, all of these, uh, skills, um, which frankly have often been um, sidelined as soft skills are now, uh, really what is becoming Intuition. I would put intuition in that, in that boat too. Um, are becoming the things that as operators on the other end in partnership with AI become more critical than ever. And so as it relates to sales too, I think we're still going to be in this mode depending on the level of sales or the ask, if you will. Um, and I think, you know, the higher the, the ask, the, the more human it needs to be. Um, but, and also, you know, you marry that in with this idea of like ultra high net worth, this K economy that we're in and like how do like luxury brands create experience. So I think we're just in this weird moment where uh, what is going to be a differentiator, it's going to be how you feel. Like how at the end of the day, um, you feel, um, uh, with your experiences with either the salesperson or the brand. Um, and that really comes back down to our connection to each other. Um, and you can't offset that, um, with technology. And you, um, well you maybe you can or we will, but right now, um, it feels more important than ever. Um, and so one of the things that I really think people should be doing is like how do you develop internal authority and trust with yourself first so that when you are showing up, wherever you're showing up, um, that you are, um, in alignment even with your, with yourself. Um, and so that puts uh, to question, um, when we are, I mean every one of us has probably been in a situation where you are out of alignment with the brand you're working with. Um, I know I have been, um, where. But those things start to matter, right? You can't fake that anymore. Um, and so I do think we're going to have this great reckoning where um, people will have to have a hard look, um, you know, whether their, their values are aligned with their work. Um, because that's the stuff that, that really is uniquely human.

Speaker A: Absolutely. 100% that is the stuff that's uniquely human. And being uniquely human is so important in today's AI age, um, and automation age. But what's your take on all this? Maika?

Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, you know, more and more sales emails I get personally, I see just, it's AI, you know, I think the thing that people are not going to, or AI hasn't been able to do yet, that humans do uniquely well is a really good salesperson can write a very short email that gives you a solution to whatever your problem is, is. And I think those emails are going to continue to be effective because AI has not been able to do that. You can get a long email with bullet points and AI kind of writing and it's easy to just kind of let it flow over you. But you see a short one sentence email and it's like something that really resonates with you. Um, you're going to respond to that, you're going to, you know, have some kind of reaction to that. And I think if you can find humans who do that, I think those people are just going to be more and more valuable. And those people are where a lot of the sales is going to go because there's just going to be so much automation noise. And so in a way I think the best salespeople are going to become more successful. And I think the automation stuff's working right now because most people aren't used to just the AI being able to generate this stuff like crazy. But if it becomes more and more AI noise people are going to tune that out. Um, um, and look for those like human to human connections as much as possible.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah Mike, I was just gonna say too like for me like that's where I feel like things like conferences, meetups, you know, those things are going to be relevant again. Um, you know, because the relationship starts online and then you, you know when you meet someone they already kind of know who you are and so like does who you are in a room show up with how they've perceived you online? Um, or if it's vice versa, you meet someone and then does the who you are online match? But it really is about resonance. Um, but I think those, the, those uh, any kind of interaction, community building, those things I feel are starting to feel relevant again. Not that they ever really went away but it is I think the thing that people are craving. Um, and um, activating like real legitimate experiences with the brand

Speaker A: 100% in in person events are not going to go anywhere. And that's why I think live streaming is um, seeing an up and coming and you know the industry reports show that it's not going anywhere and it's just going to get bigger. And B2C, you're seeing them sell products right on stage, QVC style on like TikTok. Um, B2B is you know, a little bit different but a little more thought leadership. Sort of like what we're doing now. But it's human, it's real, we can mess up and you know that's the thing you're getting into when you sign up to come onto a live stream is that like lights, camera, action, all of the breaths, all the ums, um, it's nothing's edited out. People can come into the comments, they can say whatever they want. Um, and so yeah, there's just a realness about it which is I think kind of what makes it work. Because even if you don't get a lot of people there, if you get a few people there, you know, it's like just like having a few people in the room with you to some degree. You know, it's hard to replicate that online. Like you're never going to get that everywhere. But of course it's a little Bit more budget friendly. But I digress because we need to get to the Guru of the Week because we want to know who walks the walk and talks the talk on LinkedIn, um, that you follow, or any other platform. Like what, what, you know, like what voice out there inspires you. We've just been inspired by you for the last hour, but we've got a little video we play to kick this. Guru of the Week. The Guru of the Week. There it is. Could you both tell us who's your Guru of the Week?

Speaker B: You want to go first or you want me to jump in?

Speaker C: You can go first.

Speaker B: I have two, I have two that I'm following mostly for AI, um, and it is Rand Fishkin. Um, he was at Moz and Now he's at SparkToro. And then, um, Neil Patel from, uh, NP Digital. And I follow those guys because the landscape, uh, literally changes by the moment. And I feel like they have the breadth and depth of the teams to be able to test, um, before they advise. And, um, they've earned my trust, um, as we navigate the AI landscape.

Speaker C: Yeah, uh, for me, I said, I think before the call started that I don't follow too many people on LinkedIn. Um, but someone I worked with back at Ring, she's now the cmo. Um, Mimi Swain, she, she posts a lot of really good stuff on LinkedIn and always enjoy reading her posts and so a lot of, like, inspirational stuff about, you know, what she's done and how she's kind of driven, driven the brand forward. And, um, yeah, she's, she's someone I know personally, but I Enjoy reading on LinkedIn as well,

Speaker A: so. Cool. Well, thank you both for sharing their names. We'll have to go look them up. Congratulations to them. And that's it for tonight. It is nine o' clock on the dot. We got through all of our topics. The only last thing we really like to share with our guests is a little bit more about you. So if you could both close us out by sharing who it is you serve, how you serve them, and if they could be served by you, how do they reach you? Molly?

Speaker B: Well, I am, uh, incredibly passionate about women in business and also mentoring and shaping the next generation of women in business. So for me, anybody who shares that passion, um, is someone that I love, um, to work with. I also have a heart for people who want to change the world. So impact leaders, founders who believe in regenerative systems, circular economies, SDGs, anybody who is trying to align their work with, uh, business for good. Those are My people. Um, and so you can find me obviously here on LinkedIn and, uh, I'm always, always happy to talk shop. Um, if you ever want to, uh, you know, just shoot the breeze and figure out, uh, how do we navigate this together. I love it.

Speaker A: Amazing. Thank you so much for sharing that. And how about you, Micah? Who do you serve? How do you serve them? And if they can desurvey you, how do they reach you?

Speaker C: Yeah, you know, I, I love working with people really passionate about their businesses. Uh, you know, that's kind of been a through line in my career. And whether that's something that's super high tech or something that's no tech at all, you know, that's, that's really what gets me excited is working with people who really care about what they're doing and, and just always want to push things forward, uh, and figure out how to grow their business as big as possible. Um, and so, yeah, I mean, I, I do some consulting and so if anybody wants to reach out to me, it's just micahpensignal Co. Feel free to shoot me an email. I respond very quickly and, um, even happy to just chat and bounce ideas off of. I just, I love hearing from people and talking about different businesses.

Speaker A: Amazing. Thank you both so much for sharing that and for coming on last minute. Both of you are like Wednesday heroes. Keeping the show going every Wednesday for almost four years now. I think it's over four years technically. Um, so yeah, no, I really appreciate it. This has been a great episode and until next week, we'll see everyone back here but Molly and Micah. I hope to see both of you backstage so we can make sure that the upload speed is good to go and we can send the world all of our post production materials. Um, but thanks a lot everyone. We'll see you next week.

Speaker C: Thanks.