Empowering Brilliance: A Modern Approach to Leadership with Cassidy Browning

MINDset2023: Welcome back to the Mindset 2 Learn podcast. In season three, we are shining a light on, um, what it really means to be a leader in today's evolving workplace. I packed this season with inspiring voices and practical strategies to help us lead with purpose, presence, and the key theme, people centered impact. So whether you're managing a team, shaping learner programs, just leveling up your own leadership mindset, there is something in this season for you. In today's episode, Cassie and I talk about leadership in a world that feels uncertain and constantly changing. And we talk about how trust, intentional communication, and empowerment can anchor your team through it all. Cassidy reminds us that great leaders don't shine the spotlight on themselves. They coordinate and evaluate the brilliance of others. Hey, Cassidy. I'm so glad we finally get to have this conversation on the podcast. So, just so the listeners know, you've worn so many hats throughout your career, from, um, instructional design to program development and to coaching others in leadership. But here's what I think stands out the most, is how deeply, intentionally intentional you are about the way you lead and how you care for the people that work for you even after they don't work for you anymore. So that is super important. Okay, tell the audience a little bit about yourself and what fuels your passion for leadership.

Cassidy Browning: Uh, well, excited to chat with you again. And yes, it's been a minute since we first wanted to do this, so I'm really excited to connect. And I love your use of the word intentional. I think that's definitely a cornerstone for me. And I think the same thing that I love about learning and development in general, because. Because I've been a part of this in public sector, private sector, educational settings, community settings. I love learning and development because I think that our ways of learning become our ways of working and being with one another. It's a part of our culture. And so that extends to how I show up as a leader. So I think anything we do in L and D, uh, for our learners, for our users, is something that we, as leaders, should be doing for our teams. So I try to take that same intention, that same care if it's accessibility or if it's sparking joy for a moment. Right. All those sorts of things that we would want to do for our learners, I try to do as a leader.

MINDset2023: Yeah. And I think that really is, like, that rewarding piece, like you said, sparking joy. It's getting them to trust you, but also for them to see, like, the light and understand that this is something that's good, that's happening. Together here.

Cassidy Browning: Absolutely.

MINDset2023: Yeah. I love that you explained it like that. Okay, so one theme that you and I both feel really strongly about, and we keep discussing this over and over again in some of our previous conversations in leadership, and I just said it is that trust piece. Right. So without it, nothing else works without trust. So how do you personally build trust with your team? Give us, um, some tips and tricks on what you're doing to build that trust with the people that work with you.

Cassidy Browning: Sure. So I think how I think about trust is critical here, and I definitely stole it from the Leadership Challenge. So I really recommend this book. Highly recommend their meta analysis of a lot of data. I'm not going to pretend I know all the specifics, but their meta analysis is that there are three key pillars to trust. So one is ability. So do folks believe that you can do what you say? The other being integrity, will you do what you say? And then the third is benevolence. So do I have other people's interests at heart? So you need that trifecta. And so I think the most common pitfall I see, I think we give people the benefit of the doubt usually. Right. They have the ability. They're there because they're great. Right. They've been hired, they've been promoted. They're there because they're supposed to be right. People saw things in them. They've proven that. And so that and benevolence, I think, can be pretty, pretty decently easy to give somebody the benefit of the doubt on. I think integrity is where I see leaders fall short most often. Are you going to do what you say? And I'm not ascribing any, like, ill intent or no one. I'm going to trick you. Right. There's no evil mustache twisting. It's just follow through can become really difficult when you're a leader. There's a lot of noise from all directions and a lot of asks. And so this follow through, even just on like, hey, yep, I'm going to follow up on that from a small thing to a big thing, right? Like, hey, we just had this new value for the company announced. What does it mean for what we're doing? If we don't follow through on those things, we start to really break down trust pretty quickly. And so I think without that follow through, it's really hard to believe in your ability. It's hard to believe in your benevolence. If I don't follow through on things. And so I think the key part here for me is understanding that in the Absence of information, the way that our brains work, we're going to fill in the worst possible thing. If we're in an environment, right, where the economy isn't looking awesome, there are a lot of layoffs or things like that, right. If, um, I don't hear something, I'm already in a stressed space. If I don't hear an update, if I don't, if I hear this new value right for the company and I don't know what it means for us and how we work, do we matter in the company anymore? Right. Is our whole org going to get cut? I think there's understanding that kind of employee experience that we're going to fill in. That worst thing can be something that really also makes that sort of follow through, that doing what you say you're going to do even more important. And so I think an example is, I don't have an update for you, right? Your team says, hey, we'd love to know what this value means. And I'm like, cool, I'm going to take that up the chain or I'm going to talk to folks and see. But following up and saying, hey, I did follow up. I asked about it. We're not sure yet. And so I'm like, I'm going to come back to you in another week, right? Making sure they know even if the update is that there isn't an update, what have I done? What might the blockers be? What can we do? And then I think too beyond that is there are times when, you know what, we're not going to get that clarity from our leadership team. So we're going to define it ourselves. And I think strategically going rogue is something that worked pretty well with my teams in the past. Is like, okay, groovy. We didn't get that direction. What does it mean for us? And so here's a place we're going rogue where we developed our own purpose. And it was a whole exercise where folks worked on developing their own individual purpose. And then, uh, we filtered that up through to what a team purpose would look like. And we weren't getting that direction from above or the direction we were getting, quote, unquote, above, or the direction we were getting was so vague. And we're like, it doesn't have meaning and it doesn't give us direction. We don't feel connected. And that's a really, you know, feeling untethered and not feeling like you're creating or adding value. That's a really vulnerable position to be in. And so things like that, those Moments of really clear communication and follow through non update updates. Strategic going rogue, doing stuff yourself when you're not kidding it. And I always made sure, right. I'd always say like, hey, leadership chain, this is something I'm working on. Any hard concerns and they might be like, here's this and that and I'm like, groovy tuby, I will keep you in the loop or I'll amend in these ways. But the strategically going rogue, if you weren't getting it really helps to give your team those anchors or understand. Okay, at least we're clear on what's going on. We're not sure. We might not be able to know that we're clear with like the CEO. Right. We might not have that clarity, sadly, or even the chro. But we know on our team that we have a common shared understanding. Even if it's only for right now. This is where we are. So I think that clarity, uh, wherever you can create it, is really key to having that trust.

MINDset2023: Okay. I love the going rogue. I feel like that sometimes in just little things that I do, so I can totally make a connection. I'm sure other people in the audience are going, yeah, doing this like cheer while they're driving to work or something. But the key thing that I picked up from that is you are working with them to help them find value, to help them make connections to what the, the purpose of what they're doing in that position means something. And again, if you're not getting that from the leadership above because you're such a good manager and you see that is something that is going to build that trust. Wow. So if you're listening, take note of what Cassidy just said. And we're just getting started. By the way, Cassidy, you've also shared with me before how important it is to create spaces. So I think that's the next direction we're going to go in because I think I get excited about it and I know the listeners are going to. But these spaces that you've created where people just feel safe to show up. What if they are, uh, feeling uncertain about something or there's some things that are really fast changing in the environment, in the workplace. Right. Some of those things can really be difficult and firsthand that weird feeling of like flux up, something's coming down the line. Do we know what it is? How do you ensure that your team feels safe? To experiment, to make mistakes, to speak up when there's organizational change.

Cassidy Browning: Yeah. That's the challenge. Right. And I, I might use this term, vuca which I think a lot of folks are familiar with, but maybe not. But I encourage folks to look into it. This notion of a volatile, uncertain, complex, ambiguous environment, I don't think it's new in terms of us experiencing it, and I also don't think it's going away. So this notion that we're in a constant kind of state of unpredictable. And I think the thing that's important about understanding that is our old methods are not going to work. So I think there's a whole. The before times, like before COVID and such. Certainly that was a very acute time during lockdown and things. But I think there's a lot to carry through. It's not like, okay, we're out of that now. I think we're still in. In that environment in many ways. And so I think where you start is really important. So I used to do this with the classes that I taught, you know, 400 student lecture halls. And I would Rick roll them on the first day. And the reason why I did it, first of all, it's funny and it's ridiculous, but also because what are the lyrics, right? Never going to give you up, never going to let you down, right? All of those things. And I just don't. And I. And but you have to prove it, right? So I start that way, set the tone. And something else I do with like new employees. And I do the Rickrolling on my teams too. But. And even actually on, um, on the day of layoffs, I reminded them, I said, remember this? I said it on day one. I said it when you joined. And I mean it now and forever, like, you're stuck with me and I'm here to support you whether or not we're at the same company. And. But another thing I do with new employees is I have a survey that I give them. And part of it is some quantitative and part of it's qualitative. It's giving me some benchmarks. I'll continue to ask certain questions over time so I can track change and also inform things like action planning, et cetera. But that discovery form has things like, how do you like to receive feedback? Huh? What do you. How do you feel about managing your personal time? Do you have enough time for professional development and things like that? The reason why I ask those too is I immediately use that to curate how we structure our one to ones or how feedback is given. And again, from day one, that sets the expectation of I'm listening, right? And what you tell me matters. So I'm going to intentionally Create these moments where you are anonymously, not anonymously in person, in writing. All of the ways that I can invite your feedback and also have those intentional feedback loops so that, hey, this is what I'm hearing. Is this on? Um, is this right? What else might you add? Here's what I think I'm going to do with this. What do you think? Uh, how are we doing? And then measuring again and saying, did I do? You know, is this hitting the mark? How might we revise? So I think, you know, that initial tone is really important. Uh, and my metaphor is always the black box theater. So I'm a theater kid.

MINDset2023: I love it.

Cassidy Browning: I love the black box theater. So for folks who are non theater people, uh, black box space is often where you're seeing more experimental work. It's called a black box because it's usually pretty much physically like a black box. It's empty, it's a blank slate. You might have some really basic, like rehearsal furniture that's usually made out of really heavy metal so that it's been painted 5,000 times so that you can turn it into a couch. It can be a car, it can be, it could be a bed. And it's this flexible, safe, creative space for play and for failure without high stakes. Right. So tickets are usually free or cheaper than something that might be on the main stage or seeing something that's still in development. And so not a lot is defined in the space. All is possible, all is to be conjured. It's a very collaborative space. So I think creating wherever you can, we can't always do this, but wherever we can, where can we create those black box spaces? Ideally, we're also doing that for our learners. But as leaders, again, can we do that for our teams? And so, you know, you ask people like, what are your wonders? Prompts for one to ones, prompts in team meetings is like, what, what aren't we thinking about? How might we, um, bringing in a lot of design, thinking around like wild ideas and co creation. I welcome pitches, outline sketches, dissent, right? Like openly asking like, what are we not thinking about? What are the risks? Because to help disrupt like groupthink, right? Because someone might come up with the first idea, it sounds good. And then you don't want to like derail it. So you can just kind of be like, let that go. But I think if you, if you set it up front and then you continually ask those questions and people know that it's actually being listened to and paid attention to and truly welcomed, um, I think over time that's the trick. It is something that has to happen over time to develop that safety for folks to really feel like, okay, I'm going to pitch this wild idea, but. And even down to just word choices, on UM Team, we often use phrases like, here's the first pancake, right? Like, you don't use the first pancake. Doesn't usually show up. Right? It's not usually great, but you got to make it right. So just get a draft out there, right? Or welcoming you into the message was another phrase like, hey, I'm like, noodling on this thing. I'm going to welcome you into the mess. And it kind of creates a norm and gives permission of, this is a messy space, right? This is the black box theater. Can you come in here, tell me what you think of this, and give me feedback instead of waiting until it's done right, and some precious thing and then sharing. And I think that also gives you, as a leader, that permission. Hey, we don't know yet. We don't know what this looks like yet. Or, uh, this isn't quite done yet. But I'd love to get your input. And people being included in that, they feel, I mean, it gives them such a sense of, I think, more confidence in you. They feel more connected. It's less scary than just an absence of information. Right? But hey, we're working on this in leadership. Could you give me your input? They know that's being taken into that room, speaking their name in that room. Right?

MINDset2023: This is a great value piece again.

Cassidy Browning: Yeah, yeah, this is a great idea for my, um, you know, from X person. Say people's names in spaces. I think really citing that is, um, another small way. And I just gave you 500 things.

MINDset2023: Sorry, you did? And I was going to tell you, when you're talking about that, just give me something. Excuse my language, but we like to call that the shitty first draft. It's just get the idea on paper. Get that idea out of your head. It may not be a great idea yet. It's the start of it, right? And when you have a team or you have colleagues that you can ideate off of, it makes it even better. And that actually is like team building in a sense.

Cassidy Browning: So, absolutely.

MINDset2023: You're building not only the trust that you want them to have in you, but you're building trust among the team. I talked earlier about your intentionality. So listeners, if you can't already tell, everything Cassidy says is intentional, everything she does is intentional. And she's great about telling us about it, but I just really admire the intentionality she has around communication. It's like this powerful, transparent, clear, consistent way of not only just talking with me and answering questions and having side conversations sometimes, but on a serious note, professionally, it really speaks to the kind of leader that you are. So let's talk about communication for a minute because I think the audience is going to really like this. Can you walk us through how the philosophy of being transparent shapes your leadership style?

Cassidy Browning: Absolutely. So it's, I think those three words go together, right? Transparency, being clear and being consistent. Um, when you do those things, I think part of it is aligning your how and the what. So there's a statistic and I'm not remembering exactly what book it was from, but 93% of what we communicate is through tone and body language. Now, remote, dispersed work, we don't always have those tools at our disposal. But I think part of what that's telling you is it's so important to communicate intentionally. But I think also multi directionality. So ideally you're listening more than talking, but that it's happening in all directions. It shouldn't just be a vertical chain. Okay. CEO said, chro said, my leadership said. Now I'm saying it shouldn't just go up or down. I think it should be going in all directions. Uh, those feedback loops and cycles that I talk about a lot and it's really a document, I know it sounds really boring, but having those multimodal ways to provide feedback, have those feedback loops, but then recording that and having it be accessible, you might have folks in different time zones. I, you know, typically working with folks across every single region of the world, many languages and thinking about accessibility capaciously, um, sometimes different modes work best for different folks. And so being able to go back and reflect, even going back and reflecting over time because my goodness, how much time do we spend in meetings? Right. And so if we didn't have. It's easy to have the same meeting over and over. But if you have those ways where you've recorded things and there are ways to do it, I think AI is your friend with this. Ah, there are ways to make that more automatic so it's not too labor intensive, but it's also something you can share. Okay, Whoever's taking notes this week, that can be their task. And you rotate that. Uh, and beyond that, I think digital whiteboard tools are the best. Best.

MINDset2023: Mhm.

Cassidy Browning: Not just because I'm a design thinking person, but again, it's stickies, images, emojis, gifs, all the things that you might want to put in there. And again, AI tools that have integrated with that allow you to pull out all sorts of really great insights. And so when you can create these collaborative spaces for your teams where this is our shared source of truth, friends, this. And then here's what it was a month ago. Here's what it is this M month. And you don't write over. I think there can be a tendency like hey, we have the shared Google Doc and we write over. We just update the thing and that has a way of erasing the change or facing the change. And I think change fatigue is real and I think it's important to have the written history of how the things have changed. And so anything you can do to have those shared sources of truth I uh think can also really help. And this I think designing intentionally collaboration and engagement, that's certainly key too. Uh, about that transparency and clarity. There are two other things though that I love about communication philosophy. Uh, one is storytelling about the value of the work and the other is joy and community. And so I think storytelling is incredibly important always especially in business settings. And I think L and D is always having to prove their value. Uh, but we know that this creates a lot of value and people feel seen when their work is celebrated. It inspires buy in with a shared vision and a future possibilities. And when you can create I often created situations where I'm like hey, I want you to showcase things to our leadership. So our whole team is going to meet with a couple rungs up and we're going and you're going to speak to your work. So creating those moments where yeah not only is the work showcased but the people get to do it themselves. And how can we create those visibility moments? Not just what's the story is being told but again the how that they get to do that and then the joy that we've talked about right. It's there's a reason why it's important. And another quote from the book that I was talking about the leadership challenges. Fun is not a luxury. It positively impacts the bottom line and it speeds up trust building. It's why do we begin speeches with a joke? Why do we begin professional talks? There's usually like a badum cha, right? There's a way that it creates that connection and community. I think it shows that you can be vulnerable. It shows that you care about people. Bey the task at hand as you said, right, like hey, we can take a moment for this thing over here that isn't necessarily about a deliverable so I think that that sends a powerful message that we matter as humans. Yeah. Outside of work. Yeah, that's. I think those are a lot of elements, but, yeah.

MINDset2023: Yeah. And I was just gonna say it's that human element. It really makes them feel like you understand, because you're a human, too, and you understand what's happening, and you know what it feels like to be in the trenches, but you also know what it feels like to showcase your work and feel valued. And I keep saying that, but really, that's it. Cassidy's putting her thumb up to me. Everybody, we're looking at each other, like, making gestures and stuff. Fun ones, positive ones. I promise. Okay, she's gonna spit out her drink now.

Cassidy Browning: Okay.

MINDset2023: So a lot of the leadership conversations that I've had with so many people this season, we talked about why they became a leader, how they became a leader, how they like to lead. But I think one thing that I'm always curious about is how you lead with values that are important to you. And you've talked a lot about that. But, like, when things are going smoothly, that's really easy.

Cassidy Browning: Yeah.

MINDset2023: But it's entirely something different when you're navigating pressure or, uh, tough decisions and things like that. So I know y', all, Cassidy and I have talked about some of these things before. That's why I came up with these questions, because I want you to hear her answer. She stays grounded in her values. So tell us about how you're able to do that. And even if that's during a time of change, uncertainty, pressure from above, you still hold fast. So tell us what your secret is.

Cassidy Browning: I don't know that it's a secret, but I think what you were talking about of, um, being human centered, it's. This sounds very dismal to say. However, I think it is true that a lot of forces in the professional world are. Maybe even the world at large, I'll say, are dehumanizing. Um, I think maybe this can really be tied to being in a Vuca world as well. That volatile, uncertain, complex, ambiguous. There's a lot of ways in which processes or things can feel very dehumanizing. It's not about you as an individual. It's not about your humanness. There's just something that can feel very. You're a cog in a wheel or you're a line on a spreadsheet. I mean, especially if we think about things like layoffs, et cetera. Right. It's not about how well you did a job. Right. It's About a bottom line. And that's the fact of being in a corporate world, right? There is a profit, it is a business. And so I think really going back to rehumanizing. What can I do to rehumanize this space? And sometimes it's a silly meme based on a photo that somebody shared. That's something I would do, is that, you know, what memes would come out. You share a photo, it might become a meme. Right. The photo of your kids or your dog or whome or you at doing whatever. You might be the next week's meme. And, you know, that might be part of how we rehumanize spaces. But I think it's also just, um, as you said, understanding the team's experience. And so as I said, it can feel really like gaslighting when huge changes are treated like, oh, no, this is just like a little shift. Right. Um, we might be seeing this entirely new thing that doesn't at all align with everything you've been doing for the last six months. But don't worry about it. That doesn't. When you're somebody who's sitting at a senior director level, you might not be worried because you're closer to it. You're in those rooms, you're having those conversations, you're informed, you feel like you have a voice in it. But when you're in ic, you have very little window into it. You do not feel valued in those conversations. It can feel very, very scary to know that these really important things, conversations, decisions are being made and it's all behind closed doors. And when you ask for updates, it's like, oh, uh, it's not quite ready.

MINDset2023: Yeah.

Cassidy Browning: And each time it's not quite ready is like even more anxiety inducing. Right. And so I think really understanding how confusing or frustrating or anxiety inducing that could be, existential threats, things around, like I said, layoffs or AI. Um, what are we looking to. Are we were looking to replace people and things like that. And so I think shifting those strategies to understand we're always already going to be in this vuca world is letting go of the myths of final or stable or long term and encouraging people around you to do the same. So it's embrace that first pancake band, because that might be all you get. And that's just gonna be another first pancake. Right. So hopefully we get to the second pancake, but we might not. And so you have to think more of cycles and loops than of something like a linear progression. Right. Okay. We've got this leadership Framework, it's been approved. We're gonna build on it, we're gonna develop stuff. It's gonna launch this and that. Nope. Nice try. Right. A version, it's going to go back for iteration. We're going to have this and that. Right. It might get approved and then it's going to get changed again. And so understanding everything and its temporality, I think shifting that mindset can be really helpful so that the fact of the world and things is less upsetting. But I think that really necessitates that clarity of expectations. Right, okay. Uh, things are changing. We set goals for the half or whatever it is. Groovy. Let's go back and revise those. And understanding again that. That central shared source of truth. Okay, we've got these. We have. And we also have the record of how it's changed over time. Not just papering over, but understanding. Okay. Version one, version two, hopefully not version 10 or 11, 12, but I think. Okay, great. This is another phrase we use is for the right now. This is for the right now when we know that something might change that, uh, again, that those language shifts that can help you continue to say, okay, this is for the right now. This is where we're directing. But I think it's also about resisting the fire drill. I often called it the gerbil wheel. The fire drill, gerbil wheel.

MINDset2023: I love it.

Cassidy Browning: Feel like you're constantly on the thing of somebody going, whoop, this is the brand new thing. And you go, okay. And it's really easy to drop everything and then go to the next emergency and then drop it in the next emergency. And then you're kept in this state of consistent emergency. And it actually got down to creating SOPs for fire drills. Right. To say, like, okay, if fire drills are a fact, then we need to actually have an sop because it can't just be everybody drop everything on a team of nine, 10, 12 people. Because that's actually not even helpful. Right. Like, we need decision maker. Uh, we need this and that. Right. Decide what's the thing to be done, who are the best folks, then reprioritization of work. And I'm doing the biggest cheerleader things that I could ever do. Because I think that's the biggest thing too, is we just tend to keep adding, here's the new priority. Okay, cool. I'll just add on top. And I think the question I learned to ask immediately is, what are we not doing?

MINDset2023: Oh, yes. What are we not doing?

Cassidy Browning: What are. Or what are we delaying? Right. How are we going to make this livable because you will continue to work folks into the ground if you don't do that from the start. So, um, it also signals to leadership. Okay. If you're getting these directions, you know, it's easy for them to say, here's the next thing that we need done, but when they understand that it's a choice, they might have a different opinion. And so oftentimes that's that buffer. Right. That you can be as a leader is to say, okay, groovy tuby. I hear this new initiative. Here are these other three things. What are we amending? They might actually change their minds and go, you know what this brand new shiny thing can be next quarter or can be. It's actually not the emergency that it might seem like. So I think, yeah, I think that that can be one of the biggest things too, that you can do as a leader is to say, what's the offset if we, if we want to add this? Because you just can't exponentially add.

MINDset2023: Yeah. And that's saving the sanity of the

Cassidy Browning: people that are working with you. And your own.

MINDset2023: Yes, and your own. But really, it's like you're stepping up, you're. You're seeing ahead of time what kind of anxiety or kind of pressure this can build on. You're also looking at the return on investment for the company as well and saying, look, we have all these things already in the pipeline. If I pull these people off of what they're already working on to work on this new, like you said, fire drill, you're going to be delaying other deadlines. So which one is your priority?

Cassidy Browning: Yeah, if everything's important, nothing's important, right?

MINDset2023: That's right. Yes. Yes. Cassidy, let's think about your leadership legacy. And I know that some recent developments have probably had you reflecting on this anyway, and I'm sure you could come up with something really inspirational here. So I want you to define your leadership legacy in one sentence. What do you hope it is? What do you hope it would be?

Cassidy Browning: I hope. I love this metaphor of a conductor. And this is something that I use actually to frame a project management course. I feel like that's what project and program managers do oftentimes is they're, they're a conductor. But I think it's also a good metaphor for how I hope I am as a leader, how I want to be remembered as somebody who coordinates and empowers others brilliance to achieve a common goal. So if you think of a conductor and there are all these different instruments. Right. And create It. You might not make the music, right? Like, you're probably not the composer, so that that music might be coming to you from wherever in the organization, but what we do with it, right, and what we're able to create together is we're more than the sum of our parts. Letting different instruments shine and the way that they shine. Um, I think that's probably the most succinct way that you are very, uh, diplomatically asking me to be succinct. I think that's what I would offer.

MINDset2023: Your legacy is you're the conductor of all different types of instruments, but these instruments are people, and you're seeing the value in each one of them and helping them. You're empowering them to be what they. What the possibilities are. Right. To their full potential. Yeah, I see that. If I had a perfect job, I would work for you. I want you to make me feel like that. Okay, we're gonna wrap things up here, everybody. As you all know, season three of the Mindset to Learn podcast has been exploring leadership through the lens of learning. And I hope you all learned so much today from Cassidy. But I'm going to ask Cassidy another question, because this is the one I ask all my guests. In your view, in your perspective, in your opinion, what does it mean for a leader to have. Have a mindset, to learn?

Cassidy Browning: I couldn't. I couldn't narrow it down to one thing. I'm sorry. But the first thing is just listen, listen, listen, and then find new ways to listen in all directions.

MINDset2023: Love it.

Cassidy Browning: That's it. It's, I think, just be a voracious listener and feedback. Gather and input, gather and continuous iteration. So don't get comfortable. Seek out new methods. I know you may have a template that you love, but it might be a different world now than it was, or you might be working with different generations in the workforce. The, uh, company is different. Right. Everything is always changing. So seek out new methods, new ways of thinking, collaboration, feedback loops. I think things like this podcast are critical, right? Read books, take classes, be a part of atd, do all of these things. Keep a connection to the outside world, and bring things from unexpected sources. My family businesses are education and the arts and HR and the arts come through in ways that I would have never thought, you know, and it's. I think it can be a real strength and a way to see things in a different light. You may. I come across things all the time m. In classes or in books, where it seems, like, obvious to me, but we just had a different word for it in theater or, uh, whatever other context I might be coming from. So I think, um, listen, listen, listen. And that continuous iteration. And I think part of that, too, is just there's so much awesome in everybody around you. How can you hold that up? How can you develop it and how can you empower it? And that's something that's been really effective on my teams, is like, what are you an expert in? Or what are you interested in becoming an expert in? And really giving them the space to do that. And then now, great, you've got your person who's the expert in accessibility or in writing standards. Right. Then they can create an sop. Then they can upskill the team. That's so rad. Right? And now that person has something on their resume, whether they're at that company or not. But it helps you create. Then that promo case, it helps you. They can. They're now in line for a hypo award. I've seen this pay off to dividends. So I think it's really that. That listening and then that continuous iteration, continuous improvement.

MINDset2023: That's the best advice. I love that

Cassidy Browning: listening on a podcast that we're advocating to listen, that we're gonna have you listen.

MINDset2023: Right. Okay. Where can the listeners connect with you online? Cassidy?

Cassidy Browning: Absolutely. On LinkedIn. So you can find me, Cassidy C. Browning. And then the email is the same. Cassidycbrowningmail. We'd love to connect with folks and see what you're up to, so please find me there. Excellent.

MINDset2023: Thank you for being here with me, and it's always a pleasure. I just. And I think my cheeks hurt, y', all, because I just have so much fun talking with Cassidy. Thank you for being on the podcast, Cassidy.

Cassidy Browning: Thank you so much for having me. And same here. The cheeks hurt. So, uh, appreciate it. And that's. That's the joy, right? It rain on the head.

MINDset2023: Yep. We did. We got the joy. Can you feel the energy that Cassidy has when she's speaking? I don't know about you, but I'm walking away from this conversation completely energized. Cassidy reminds us that trust isn't built on good intentions. It's built on integrity. Right. Follow through, clarity. Even when the update is. There's no update. Cassidy, your intentionality and your humanity and your deep commitment to listening in all directions truly embody what it means to lead with a mindset, to learn. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom, your stories, and your joy with us today and for making me laugh along the way. And to our listeners, keep listening keep iterating and keep leading with your heart. I'll see you next time on the Mindset to Learn podcast.