Leadership Without The Cape with Yolanda Larner

MINDset2023: Welcome to the Mindset2Learn podcast. In this season, I'm talking about leadership. And today we have a really special guest who truly lives out what it means to lead with both her heart and strategy. Yolanda Larner. Yep. You probably heard her on, um, my podcast before. She's a repeat guest. She's the director of operations at her company, but she's also the president of the ATD Central Florida Chapter for 2025. She has over 15 years of experience in learning and development, team building and people's leadership, which she's going to talk about in this episode. We're also going to talk about how to build trust in those close knit teams and why she believes self awareness and empathy and having open communication, leadership superpowers. And believe me, she may not wear a cape, but she has the superpowers. Hey Alanda, thanks for being on the podcast with me again. How are you?

Yolanda Larner: Good. I'm glad to be back. How are you?

MINDset2023: I'm doing great and this is an exciting season because we're talking about leadership. And uh, as you know, I reached out again because I know that you've got some expertise in this area as well. So be, before we get started, like tell the listeners a little bit about yourself. Start with a story about your unique journey and how, how you, you are, how you became to be where you are today.

Yolanda Larner: Sure, sure. So I'll try to keep it brief because it's a little bit of a long journey. I've been doing this about 15 years in talent development, as ATD loves to call it. I started off figuring out that I wanted to train because I worked at Home Depot and strangely enough, yes, training at Home Depot. And when I started, we went to a training at a warehouse and there was this trainer and that's all she did, was train. And I'm like, that is really, really cool. I said, uh, she just gets to go around training all the time and you know, she doesn't have to ring up cash registers and things like that. So I knew then that that's what I wanted to do, but I didn't know how to get into it. Fast forward some years and I started working for a call center and my boss asked me what did I want to do with my career and I said I wanted to train. So that's how my training journey started. And they sent me to a, uh, train to trainer bootcamp in Vegas. Go Vegas. And so I learned kind of like the basics really quick about training. And then from there I contracted for a while I was what's called an epic credential trainer. And so I went around the US training on electronic health record, um, which is epic. And then I did a little bit of project management as well. I worked with other electronic health records such as Cerner. I think I did a little bit of Allscripts and then another one called athenahealth. So I did a lot of training and project management and leading into instructional design. Over those years that I was basically a contractor, a consultant, I always like to move up. So I basically said, hey, I think I want to be in management leadership. So I started gearing all my time and energy to figuring out how to, how to do that. I took some courses, I took some ATD courses actually. And I, I really learned about being a manager not just through uh, courses, but through getting thrown into the fire, so to speak. So I've had some failures, I've had successes, I've experienced the whole gambit. Um, and today I am the director of operations at my company. And that's an interesting journey as well because I started off as a contractor there. So from contractor to full time employee, as a manager to director is essentially that journey I took just through a series of events happening. That's where I am today. How's it a little speaking on the

MINDset2023: side in that journey, were there any like pivotal moments that helped define your leadership style that you are using today?

Yolanda Larner: Yes, there's actually been several occasions that several things that have happened that kind of shaped me. One thing I knew for certain is that I didn't want to be like all of the managers that I had encountered which were not very good. And when I say not very good in terms of how they treated their employees, the sort of things that they did, the way they speak to you, those sort of things. I have always been a treat. I treat you the way I want to be treated person, even in personal life as well as professional life. And then I treat you as an employee the way I would want to be treated as an employee. And so that, that really helped to shape me at my core. But I also had failures that helped to shape me as well in terms of not letting the sense of leadership and being a manager, which is very different from leadership, letting that go to your head. Um, and so just thinking like I have all the power and that I had a momentary thing of that where I kind of, kind of forgot where I came from for a minute. And so I think it's very important as a leader to always remember where you came from because at some point in Time, everybody had to have been an individual contributor or something of that sort. So those things have really shaped me. I always try to remember that as I manage today, as I lead today, uh, key things over the years, those successes, those failures, they have all shaped me today. And I continue to remember those as I go through even stopping to have reflection moments like wait a minute, you know, just to make sure I don't forget myself.

MINDset2023: Yeah. And not only are you leading in your career right now, but also for those of you who don't know, Yolanda is currently the president of our ATD CFL chapter here in Central Florida and she's leading me. But one thing that I really love about your leadership style and is how you put people first. I'm just going to steal your thunder a little bit here or I'm going to raise you up on a pedestal. One thing Yolanda is doing is she's has an open door policy where if we have a concern, if we have something we want to share with her, exciting news or just something that, an idea that we want to talk about, we can set up an appointment with her and she'll jump on and talk to us anytime about it. Not everybody has this, that kind of transparency where they're trustworthy, they're open. She provides excellent feedback. So I think in your day to day interactions, I think your people first leadership style really stands out. You want to talk about that a little bit and how you came to decide this is how you wanted to be a leader?

Yolanda Larner: Yes. So honestly a part of it is the whole reason I'm in learning and development in the first place. I love sharing knowledge with people. I love helping people. It's at my core. And then to tie that in with what I just mentioned before, I always try to remember where I came from. I always try to treat people the way I want to be treated and I always try to treat employees the way I want to be treated as an employee. So with that that gives me, I think a uh, very people centered mindset. And in day to day I like to remember that. And I always try to make sure that even with my, with my work outside of atd, the whole reason I set up the scheduling link so that you can talk to me anytime is because I do that same thing at work. At work I have one on ones and sometimes I just thinking of the person, I'm like, hey, I don't really have anything today but you know, if you want to talk, we can still talk. Otherwise sometimes they're very busy. Like my dev Team is very, very busy. And so I know that they not want to talk right now because they want to be heads down. So today, for example, I reached out and I said, hey, you know, do you have anything you need or want to talk about today? Because if not, we can cancel the meeting because they are very much so heads down. And they may rather be working on work instead of stopping in the middle of their groove to talk to Yolanda for, you know, for what? Just to shoot the breeze or whatnot. So, you know, you have to really consider your, your audience, so to speak. Because me, I did that to some, but some I had in my one on ones today I knew they wanted to talk. So I think about the individual. Instead of just a mass, let's have a mass one on one for every single person there is my PMs. They told me they don't want one on ones because we talk all the time. We talk several, several times a week. When you think about being people centered, people centric, it does come down to thinking about the individuals, thinking about the employee and where they're coming from, the work that they have to do. Just taking all that into consideration, I think is a big part of being people centered.

MINDset2023: Yeah. And so how does that work though? Or how is it an advantage then? Like if there's a tough decision to be made at work or you have some feedback that you need to give to somebody that maybe isn't exactly beautiful? Um, how does that work where you've developed this trust or you've developed this relationship? So does it help you get through those difficult situations or decisions?

Yolanda Larner: So delivering unhappy news, not pleasant news, is hard no matter what. I will preface that with that it is hard no matter what you do. I will say though that for me, I like to take into consideration again the individual, the group that's being that we have to deliver this news to. And I really try to think about the reaction and what's the best way to, to approach it. I think doing that does help for me because I know that if I say it this way, that's probably going to be a big fallout. Being aware and conscious of the people that you speak with, the people that report to you and things like that. I think it's really helpful to know them instead of just seeing them as a number or an employee id, because that helps you to not just deliver this blanket message across the board. That won't work for everyone. It is how you deliver. I used to teach communication a lot and so that has stuck with me all These years in terms of how you communicate, your tone of voice, your delivery, even the speed in which you communicate, those are all things that affect a person when you're speaking with them. And so for those tough decisions, I take all of that into consideration. I know this employee will be just fine no matter how I deliver it. But I know this employee, sometimes I call them a little skittish. So I know that I have to be a little bit more thoughtful about how I deliver that unpleasant news. Sometimes I've even been thanked for the delivery. I've been told I appreciate that. You, you told me, I appreciate how you delivered it and things like that. Because it is scary, not just for the employee, but for you as well. It's scary for both of you to have this unpleasant news and have this unpleasant conversation. It's very important for me to keep that people centered mindset even when delivering unpleasant, um, news.

MINDset2023: And I think that's really key because so many times people, people in leadership positions have so much on their plate, so much pressure on them, and if something goes awry and they have to speak to a specific employee or a group of employees, sometimes it's more of a reaction that's coming across and they're not always thinking about how what they're going to say is going to affect each person. So I think that's fantastic that you consider that first. That just shows to me that you are so much more mature in your role and you really are stepping back and saying, okay, I've got a situation, I could react like this, but instead I'm going to think about what it's like to be in their shoes.

Yolanda Larner: Mhm.

MINDset2023: And deliver the message. So it's, it's, oh gosh, what is it like? Our love languages, you know, we talk about those in relationships. It's almost like your love languages of the people you're supporting.

Yolanda Larner: Right.

MINDset2023: Anyway, I also know that like leadership isn't just always about those decisions. There's different roles. And I've known you a while and I see you as like a mentor, a facilitator, um, you're also the leader.

Yolanda Larner: Right.

MINDset2023: How are you navigating all those different responsibilities? And I have to say, you do this without micromanaging. And I think that is a huge accomplishment because so many people that wear those hats in so many ways end up being a micromanager. So how do you empower others without hovering?

Yolanda Larner: So my biggest challenge has been to not micromanage. And the reason being is just because I am the type of person that likes to be in control. So that is something that, for me, I have worked on over the years to sort of let go. And I will give credit to my husband for helping me through that, because he's been in leadership for a very, very long time as well. And it's one of those things where you have to learn how to delegate. Once I learned that very important piece, that set me on the path to being able to manage without micromanaging. The other thing is trust. It's probably the biggest thing, to be honest, is trust, because I know that I can trust my team to go and do the things that need to be done without me having to worry about it. So. So that means instead of me standing over you and saying, hey, did you do this? Can you do this? Did you do this? And, oh, why is that not done yet? I trust them to do the thing that they are supposed to do, and we only need to touch base on it. And in order to have that mindset, and in order for the employee or the person that you're leading, um, to understand and have that mindset, you need to be very transparent up front. Front. I always say you're a reflection of me and I'm a reflection of you. So that means that as a team, we need to do things that are going to keep us on a higher pedestal than others because we want to be the best. And that's one of my core pieces as well, is that if I don't want to embarrass you, I don't want you to embarrass me. And so I'm very transparent about that up front. So people know where I'm coming from. When I say, hey, I'm trusting you to do this, I'm, uh, giving this to you. And it all boils down to that, that trust piece. You have to trust that your team is going to do what they're supposed to do. And there, if you're able to do that, then you have no need to micromanage. That leaves me to be able to focus on other things. I have a lot of my team members now. They know how much I have on my plate, and they always say, if there's anything you need me to do, do, I'll do it. Just ask me. All I. All I want you to do is just let me know if, if there's anything I can do to help you. And for me, that is so special because a lot of times you'll get where the team knows the manager or the leader has a lot on their plate. And it's like, well, that's on them because they don't have that trust, they don't have that relationship. It's like, well, that sucks for them, but I still need you to help me with this. So I think having that trust, having that transparency, that open communication, that open door policy, I think that really helps and I really appreciate my team for that. A lot of times they'll be like, yeah, I can take that off your plate and I can do that. And I trust them to do it. Because we have that sort of relationship

MINDset2023: and because you've built that, your team becomes more self directed and probably more confident.

Yolanda Larner: Oh yes. There's only one team I'm managing now that's not quite self directed. They're a work in progress, but they're doing good. But my other two teams, my ISD team and my PM team, they are pretty much self directed. I mean, even when I go on vacation, I trust that things are going to continue running smoothly and that when I come back nothing's going to be on fire. And so that allows me to take a vacation a lot easier, Allows me to go speak at my engagements a lot easier because I trust that they are going to do what they need to do and handle things. I'm very proud of all my teams for being self directed like that. Sometimes though, I'm like, what am I here for? They're doing good, but they still come to me for things. Just like you said with the scheduling meeting, I have a lot of times where someone comes to me. We're project based at my company and so we do things based off of projects. And so I have people who are on the projects when they have concerns or things that are going on, whether with the client or another employee, they come to me and they say, hey, I need help with this. And I usually stop what I'm doing if I can and I look and try to address that right away. And if I can't get to it right away, I always respond. I let them know what the next steps are going to be. But again, pretty self directed in that sense. Just because we have that level of trust.

MINDset2023: Yeah. What happens if you have a team member that's introverted or just quiet and it's harder to build trust with them or it's harder to have those conversations with them? Uh, how do you intentionally create space for them to feel comfortable?

Yolanda Larner: Yeah, I'm so glad you asked me that because that directly applies to one of my teams right now. They're a bunch of introverts. They aren't exactly the most vocal about things. And so I've tried to create several avenues for them to be able to express themselves and talk and that sort of thing. We actually follow this, this book and this. This method. It's called eos. I think it's the entrepreneurial operating system, if I'm not mistaken. And one of the things you do when you have a meeting, a team meeting, is you do what's called a segue. So I always start off with, has anything good happened, either professionally or personally? I give that space and I go do around Robin first. I give everybody an opportunity to speak up on their own. But when you have introverts, nobody's going to speak up on their own. So I go around and I just kind of say, you know, hey, so and so, anything good going on? How's it going? And I try to also, not just put the spotlight on them, but I also put myself out there as well and say, well, hey, I had this stuff going on. I'm a big nerd. I like all things nerdy. I'm very much into things like anime and, you know, that sort of thing. And so I will start by, hey, I went to this M. Comic Con, um, convention, and I did this and I did that, or I went to Epic Universe and I did this and I did that to try to get the ball rolling sometimes. And then as we go along, they start to open up a lot more. Then they start volunteering on their own to start saying things as we go along. And some days I can tell when things are going on that they're mentally probably out of it at the time. So I won't always force the issue. I won't always say, hey, so and so. Want to tell me what's going on? I try to give them that space to sort of recuperate, because not everybody wants to talk all the time and you don't know what's going on in their lives. Personally, sometimes if nobody's speaking up after a couple times of me saying it, I'll let it go because you don't want to make someone feel uncomfortable and force them to do things that they don't want to do. So that's one of the things I do. The other thing is the one on ones that I mentioned. I want to give that private space because we're doing the segue in a team space. So I want to give that private space for people to be able to voice any concerns, anything that they want. And that's worked out really well for me. Too because I have this one introvert, um, sweetest piece, lovely person, does a great job at work, but definitely an introvert. And that person has oftentimes before I started to work with them, not felt comfortable speaking up. I've had almost like coaching sessions saying, hey, don't be afraid to come to me and let me know what's going on. One of the things that I have not mentioned so far as we've been talking is that this whole building trust thing, it's a two way street. And the way that I have managed to build trust is not just by talking, but by showing. So that's one of the things that I've left out here so far. But when I talk to people and I say, hey, I'm going to do this, or even when I say, hey, you can talk to me anytime, you can let me know what you need anytime, I stand by that, I don't just say it and then say, oh, I don't have time to talk to you anymore. Or I don't just say, okay, I'll deal with that and then never deal with it again. I always try to make sure that I'm following up with whatever it is that the employee has come to me and said that they need help with. Because if not, then how can you build that trust? I can say it all I want to, but there's not going to be any purpose in that if I'm not following up with the things that I've said.

MINDset2023: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I'm thinking too with some introverts you have to try really hard you do to get them to open up. How do you know when that safety or that trust like wall that they've had up, how do you know when it's starting to crumble and what you're trying to do is actually landing with them?

Yolanda Larner: So the same introvert that I just mentioned, we have a really great relationship now. It's so phenomenal to me because that person would never really speak before, was really kind of boxed up then or whatnot. And now we talk about things outside of just work, you know, good. When we start our one on ones, we have a little chit chat first. And then the other thing is that person comes to me with a list of things that they have to talk about which is really good because like I tell everyone I need you to help me, help me help you because I don't know what I don't know. And so if you're coming to me with the list of things, that's not bad for me that's actually good because now I know what's going on and what you need help with and then I can adjust my list to address whatever those needs are. And so now they come to me with a list and we talk through it and then I have my action items and then I go back and follow up once I've completed my action items. And so that's how I know that we broke through the wall and that we have a, uh, really good and what I consider a caring work relationship.

MINDset2023: Yeah, and I think that's really important as well. Especially you know I mentioned earlier about sometimes the news you have to provide isn't always the best when you're working with the team because you know your organization and people above you make decisions that you then have to share. And that makes me think too though, you have these teams and I know you are working really close with your teams and they're close knit teams. These people have been working together for a while and they've come to expect full transparency from you. But is there times when you're really limited on what you can share? Do you feel weird about not being able to be as honest and open about what you're able to share if you're limited? Um.

Yolanda Larner: Hm.

MINDset2023: I don't know. It could be just something happening with change in the company. How does that play out for you? Tell us about a time you had to deliver that tough message but with care and not being able to say everything. What is that like?

Yolanda Larner: Yes, it's very stressful, I will tell you that. It's very stressful because it's a fine balance between what you can and cannot tell. And um, I have been in HR type positions before. I know just enough to be dangerous about HR and what you can and cannot do. I don't know if I've mentioned this before, but the company I work for now actually is a very small company. We're less than 50 people. So it's a very tight knit group. Yes, we have contractors who are not as part of the core group, but we still treat them like family, just as such. But we have, like I said, less than 50 people and less than half of that are full time employees. So when I say tight knit is very tight knit and they expect to know everything instantly, it is very difficult. This is the first time that I've had to work in this type of environment. So it's been a very good learning exercise for me in terms of how to work with this type of group because I come from corporate, corporate where, you know, everything is siloed, everything is very HR strict and that sort of thing. So we just had to make some very tough decisions with our, with our company. And I'll preface this by saying, so I am the director of ops and the person above me is the owner of the company. It's basically him and I making the decisions. And we went back and forth about a very, very tough decision that we had to make. And I won't say that it went all sunshine and roses because some things are just inevitable. You can't make everything great. Um, but we did the best we could. And we spent a few weeks going back and forth because one, we're human. We didn't want to make the call. We did not want to make the call that would affect employees. And so we went through several iterations and several times it was me like, well, we can't do that because think of what's the impact that it's going to have with the employees. We don't want to fall out from this. That was me keeping that people centered mindset and trying to think about how it's going to affect the employee and the reaction we're going to get. So we had a lot of, if we do this, then this, um, type of conversations. And, uh, we made the best decision we could for the position that we were in. And while it may not have been the most fiscally smart thing to do, not saying that we put ourselves in any jeopardy or anything, it's just that we could have made a decision that would have been fiscally better, but we kept the people in mind. And so we made the best decision that we could that would have the least impact on the employees. And so that being said, we still had to deliver some news, um, and it didn't affect every employee. That's where the transparency issue comes in. Because I can't tell the whole company what happened to individual employees. Now the problem comes in where that employee chooses to tell someone else. And then I am, um, saying, well, I couldn't tell you that because that is HR restricted. And now the other employees feel like we're not being transparent because we didn't tell them. But we can't tell you about another employee because that's that employee's information. It's their right to tell you if they want to. So we actually did a couple of things. One, I, I had to start with the employees that I needed to have the conversations with. We had those as individual conversations and we allowed them to ask any questions that they wanted to my boss, the owner and myself. We did the conversations together for the most part because we felt like it would be the most effective. I thought down to even how to name the meeting in terms of how that's going to affect people. I didn't want anybody to panic. Like, I thought it down to the last little thing because I did not want people to panic or to be too upset. I can't stop them from being upset in its entirety. But I thought down to even the meeting, like, what's the title of this meeting? Because I don't want to make it seem like it's something it's not. And so we had those individual conversations. And then from there, for lack of better wording, all hell broke loose again,

MINDset2023: even with all the careful planning and thought that went into it.

Yolanda Larner: Exactly. We can't stop employees from talking to each other. This is a very tight, family oriented company. And so it was almost like we had to do damage control. And coincidentally, right in the midst of this happening, we did a happiness survey. How do you feel about the company right now? Not the best time to put that out. And so the feedback that we got was, you're not being transparent enough. This and this happened and you didn't tell us. And the honest truth was that there wasn't that much time between the peace happening and the happiness survey. We hadn't had a chance to talk to everyone. And so we did two additional things. One is that we talked to the individual teams and we said, hey, you know, this is going on. We told them what we could tell them and we were as transparent as we possibly could be, as honest as we could be about everything that was going on. And the second thing we did is during our town hall, we were very transparent in the fact that, that we couldn't be transparent about everything. So we talked about that's important basically on our town hall, said, hey, we brought up the happiness survey. We acknowledged that there are several that felt like we weren't being very transparent. And we stated that, hey, you know, we tell you what we can tell you and we tell you as soon as we can tell you. We can only be so transparent. We cannot release employee information. We cannot release things that happen to employee status or anything like that, but we will tell you what we can. And then from there I continue to reiterate that to the different teams and to the different individuals. Like, I'm just following up, letting you know we're as transparent as we possibly can be. I will tell you everything that I can and I will tell you not what I can't tell you. And so, you know, it's very difficult in those situations, but that's essentially how we handled that.

MINDset2023: And I think too that it kind of helped you set some boundaries for future conversations or if anything else comes up like that. It's almost like you learn from it where you can now say, we've been through this before. What lessons can I learn? I can learn that I can be upfront about those boundaries ahead of time and say, hey, we're going to be going through some changes. There's things we can or cannot discuss with each and every single one of you, but we are going to talk to you and have our own conversations. And if you choose to talk to each other about it, that's on you. But I will not be able to share something I spoke with somebody else about with you.

Yolanda Larner: Uh, exactly.

MINDset2023: Hindsight. Right? I think we all can learn from that though. I mean, that would be a big takeaway for me as a listener to our discussion or what you've shared because, yes, you wouldn't have had to go through all of those different steps.

Yolanda Larner: Yeah, you even.

MINDset2023: And you tried, you tried so hard. You tried to be very strategic about it.

Yolanda Larner: Yeah, it's a timing thing. In hindsight, maybe we should have said ahead of time like you said, like, hey, we're going through some changes and things like that. It was almost comical the way it happened because in the span of time that it happened again, we put out the happiness survey, people started telling other people things and it was just like a trickle down effect. If there's a takeaway here as well, I would say never underestimate your employees when you have a tight knit group. For me, I came from corporate. In a corporate world, we all know we don't talk about employee things with other employees. We just don't. It's kind of understood sometimes it happens, but not a lot coming from that. I did not consider that people would be immediately going and telling other people that about their employee information. It didn't even like really cross my mind that that was going to happen. And so I was a little bit shocked myself when it happened because I've not experienced that before. Of course there are occasions where people tell other people things because that's how the rumor mail gets started. And even in corporate. But normally that's not the sort of thing that one talks about. A learning lesson for me is never underestimate your employees.

MINDset2023: Well, it is super clear that you lead with your heart and with strategy. I'm going to zoom out a little bit. I want to talk about your leadership legacy, because I think that's really important, and I think you have an amazing leadership legacy just from what I've experienced working with you not in a work setting, but, you know, in our volunteer setting, and then hearing and learning from everything that you've been talking about. So when it's all said and done, how do you hope others describe the impact you've had, um, on them as a leader?

Yolanda Larner: I would hope that as a leader, anyone that I've led before will see me as someone that they depended on, someone that helped them grow, someone that helped get them to the next level. That is very important. I don't want to walk away. And people know me as just a person that, oh, that was my manager. That was my boss. I want to have impact in every single solitary thing that I do, whether it's the work itself, whether it's leading people, whatever that may be. I want to have an impact. And so whether I always tell, uh, employees, like, whether you stay here or you don't, I hope you stay. But even if you don't, I want to provide you with the skills you need to be able to do whatever the job is that you want to do. And so I want people to walk away and say, hey, she helped me. She gave me information that can be useful, not just, uh, you know, platitudes and fluffy things, not just, hey, can you go do this piece of work here? I want to give everyone an opportunity to grow, to succeed, and, hey, even be better than me. So that's. That's what I want my legacy to be.

MINDset2023: I know how supportive you are, and that just makes my heart happy to hear you say it out loud, that that is your ultimate goal for your legacy. So that was me clapping. I'm very excited. Okay, so I, uh. We all know that growth just doesn't stop once you're at the top, and it is the Mindset to Learn podcast. And this season, I'm excited. Exploring leadership through the lens of learning. So I've been asking everybody, what does it mean for a leader to have a mindset to learn? Like, how can leaders stay curious and continually evolve?

Yolanda Larner: Number one is not thinking that you've reached the pinnacle, not thinking that you've reached the top, not thinking that you're done and that you've learned all you can and that you're the m utmost expert in leadership. Even if you are, as far as I know, and I could be wrong, but no one is perfect. That's as far as I know. I could be wrong. That means that there's always something to learn, some new way, something beneficial for you. So as the leader, in terms of learning and being open to learn, having a mindset to learn, never ever think that you're done. Never ever close yourself off. You have to continue to be open minded. You have to continue to be curious. You have to, you have to continue to want to grow. You want to learn, you want to improve. The only way you can improve and grow is by learning. Experience plays a lot into it. But what do you do when you experience things? You learn. So from those experiences, you learn, you grow, you improve. Yeah.

MINDset2023: And while you're learning, even if that type of learning is just like learning on the job, right. Things happen, you learn from it. But even if you're looking to improve and you're realizing, oh, I, I want to grow in a different way, I also think that as a leader, if you're looking for other ways to be a better leader, you might be listening to this podcast, you might be reading a book, you might be listening to another podcast, you might be observing what other leaders are doing that you like or you don't like. But then I always think the practical thing to do then is to take something, something you've learned, some aspect of it, and try it out. Because without that application piece, you're never going to know if it's going to work for you and how it's going to have an impact on the people you're supporting.

Yolanda Larner: So I agree 100%.

MINDset2023: My own take on that. Oh, good.

Yolanda Larner: Okay, application person, you have to apply it.

MINDset2023: I mean, otherwise, what's the point, right? Yolanda, you've given us so much practical insights right here on leadership. Thank you so much. Everything that you've said, said has been insightful and I know that everybody is going to be able to take two or three key pieces, information that you've shared, and really try to apply it in their own life, in their own workplace. But before we close, can you tell the listeners where they can contact you?

Yolanda Larner: Sure. I'm always available on LinkedIn, so you can find me on LinkedIn. Yolanda Larner is my, my handle. And then you can always email me if you want to. Yolanda training, uh, outlook.com so if anybody wants any information, any further guidance. I also mentor people, so if you ever want to reach out, feel free.

MINDset2023: Excellent. Thank you so much for being on the podcast again and I'm sure I'll have a topic in the future. That I'll pick your mind about as well.

Yolanda Larner: Thanks so much. Happy to join you.

MINDset2023: I appreciate it. I hope this episode resonates with so many of you. Yolanda was able to break down the differences between managing and leading with intention and like I said, I've experienced her approach with trust building and having that open communication and it reminds me why we do this work. And listeners, thanks for joining me on the Mindset2Learn podcast. Check out the show notes to get the resources that was shared in this episode and I hope you continue listening.