People First Leadership and Embracing Mistakes with Christopher Todd

Joni Musser: Welcome back to the Mindset to Learn podcast. I'm your host, Joni Musser. This episode is one I've really been looking forward to. In this conversation, I had the incredible opportunity to sit down with Chris Todd. He's the director of Marketing and communications at Northeastern Remc. It's a co op up in Indiana. And throughout our talk you'll quickly see what I experienced. The thoughtful leadership, their clear vision, a deep commitment to both people and purpose. I got to spend some time getting to know the culture at Northeastern Remc through my research on the company before I interviewed with them. No, I did not get the position, but what an amazing experience it was. And I have to say they have left a lasting impression. So you'll hear in this discussion between Krist and I about how their values don't just hang on their wall, which they do. They show up in how they lead, how they are serving their community and how they grow their people. It's really the kind of organization that others should look at as a model. We're going to talk about the mindset that it takes to drive impact in a mission driven organization. If you've ever wondered how to build a workplace where people feel seen and supported and empowered, then this episode is for you. Hey Chris. Welcome to the Mindset to Learn podcast. I'm glad to have you here.

Christopher Todd: Thanks for having me.

Joni Musser: So Chris, before we dive into questions on leadership and lessons and all the values and stuff that I'm excited to talk to you about, tell the audience a little bit about your story. I know you've had a fascinating journey. Like you've been in the military, you've led marketing. Tell us about you.

Christopher Todd: Sure. So like you said, I started my leadership journey and really kind of also with learning and training primarily in the military. I got uh, started in uh, about halfway through 2001, served through 2009. I ended up as a non commissioned officer in an infantry battalion. And I really learned to love leadership just as a, just as a practice there. Being there with guys and doing some of the things along with them, being able to see them grow and expand roles and responsibilities across time, you know. Then I got into the utilities industry. I uh, worked as a system operator for a large investor owned utility and that was a fascinating job. Really loved the technical being. One of the things in the military that they always preach is being technically and tactically proficient and like I really love being that technically proficient person, individual contributor and being able to rise above and do that kind of stuff. And I always was up to as someone who could lead meetings or training sessions. And even there I got put in charge of some, uh, different training initiatives outside of our specific organization leading into the larger company. And from there went into marketing. When the kids were kind of smaller, it gave me some more flexibility to be able to coach T ball and I was a Cub scout leader for the kids when they were little and then eventually got back into utility marketing, which was an interesting full circle moment for me. But then as soon as I started here, there was also a bunch of training needs that needed to be handled that dovetailed back into the system operator days. So I started to build a training catalog and library, eventually spun up an LMS that had never happened in this organization before and now have had, um, a couple of different instructional designers that we have taken this LMS and grown it and, and developed it over time into something that really can create some knowledge that can be retained in the organization forever.

Joni Musser: And you've been leading that initiative. So is there anything different really about the military versus now leadership here with the co op?

Christopher Todd: Yeah, I mean, you can't make people do push ups when you're not getting along with them. But, uh, it'd be a lot easier if it was, if it was that way. But no, it's the lessons that you learn. The transition going from the military style and organization is it takes a little bit of time to kind of reintegrate and to be able to think about them as lessons and not, uh, guidelines. You can't treat everybody like you did in the military. The difference between a good leader and somebody who's a great leader, I think that's, that's kind of one of those things right when you start to really look at and internalize some of the things in your own environment instead of just relying on whatever you've always done. Like if you keep doing what you've always done, uh, the old saying is that if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like nails.

Joni Musser: So I love it.

Christopher Todd: Put more tools in the toolbox.

Joni Musser: Okay. So, you know, I'm m going to ask you the next question because I've been asking everybody, we're going to explore what makes someone really stand out in that leadership space. And there's lots of great leadership advice out there. But what do you think separates, in your own opinion, or maybe you have advice for this as well, separates a good leader from a great leader. And I will tell you my experience meeting you for just a few times that we've been together, you are a great leader. So what do you think separates you from someone who's just good?

Christopher Todd: Well, I mean, thank you. It's very kind. I appreciate that a lot. Um, you know, I. I don't necessarily think of myself as a great leader. I think I'm always a work in progress for sure. And I think that's probably one of the hallmarks of somebody who's a better leader than, I guess, a good. A good leader. I would classify a good leader as somebody who gets things done, um, focuses on results, gets things, you know, like, it's. You're never going to worry about whether the task is going to get done or they're going to hit a budget or whatever. Maybe there's a lot of turmoil or turnover or maybe there's just some sticky personality. Things that nobody really likes to work with them, but they're still good. They get things done. Right. Um, I know we've all had leaders like that where it's just like, okay, he's fine, or they're fine. What happens when you work for somebody like that is people start saying, I'm just here to get a paycheck, man. And so you get no production out of that person outside of baseline. I think a great leader and the great leaders that I've worked for and stuff that I try to kind of emulate myself after are really where it's not about the results as much. At least that's not the focus. The focus is more on building and developing that person and trying to get everybody under the right seat, on the right bus, going the right way, making sure that they have the tools that they need, making sure that they know that they're valued and that, uh, you're investing in them and then giving them flexibility to be able to do the work the way they want to do the work. Because you can't micromanage greatness. It just, you gotta let it go. And I think a great leader means that you gotta give up control too. Like, you can't be micromanaging and inspire a team at the same time. So I think that great leaders are the people that after, uh, they leave the organization, there's still an impact that's felt by that person. Right. And I think that that's probably the main differences I would point out.

Joni Musser: Very insightful. Well, I know at, uh, Northeastern Remc, you guys have a great culture, or I should say a really strong culture. And, uh, the big part of that is how your leadership shows up for your people. So I like to kind of think about it is you've developed a People first leadership approach. And it's like in your day to day work, right? How has a principle like that helped you? And, uh, I keep saying for the audience, just because I keep saying you all you guys. Chris works with his CEO, Eric, and the two of them together are really dynamic. And so I know that the two of them have had to make some tough decisions over the past few years. How has that people first leadership guided you guys through those tough decisions that you've had to make?

Christopher Todd: That's a great question. You know, I think that what it really boils down to, what Eric, how he approaches what I do, and then it kind of flows down into how I approach everybody in my department is that it's people first, because you have to be able to trust the people that you're, that you're putting in charge of things to run with and to be able to do things that are inside of their job responsibility without being worried about some of the smaller details or just that the outcome is done. I remember one of the things that made me feel really good kind of early on, I guess it would have been second or third year that we were together. It was right after the pandemic. We had this big annual meeting for our members and we had to record it and then release it to everybody on a certain set date. And we decided not to do it live, but to pre record it. So it was all done. All I had to do is kind of hit the button and. And go. And Eric was gone. He was with his family for the weekend. And he, he told me later that he was like, man, it felt so good to be able to just know that that was handled and I didn't have to worry about it and those kind of things that when you hear that from a leader, uh, it makes you go, all right, yeah, I'm doing the right thing. I'm doing a good job. It makes you feel valued. And so I try to also do that. Really, people just want to feel valued. They want to feel that their work is important. They want to feel like it has some, some substance to it. And when you can just give them those little tiny things along the way to help validate for them what they're doing is important and it's really driving the mission and they're doing a great job. It goes a long way.

Joni Musser: Yeah. And you talked a little bit about going back to when you guys first started working together. Wasn't, um, that right after the pandemic?

Christopher Todd: Yeah, it was, it was a couple of years before. So I think it was like 2017, 2018, I think when Eric took over, that's when we first connected on this training needed. And it was like, hey, there's a, there's a need here. I think that you could be a good subject matter expert to be able to put this together. I feel like I could just say, hey, get this done and you can get it done. And what we figured out was we both operate inside of the sphere where we really like getting things done and we just have a task I can kind of knock it out. And the embedded culture before, uh, he took over was one that was very change resistant. And so even just somebody coming in to try to work on a project without meetings to schedule, meetings to have committees to get together to decide all of this stuff was a real culture shock and we got a lot of pushback. Um, but we just drive through it and get it done. And eventually it ended up being something that has been a beautiful start for like this whole. It was the origin story of the lms, basically.

Joni Musser: Oh, that's really fantastic to know that that's how you decided to put the LMS together. Is that also something that you've done to keep the team connected and supported, especially when they were remote before everybody started coming back?

Christopher Todd: Yeah, that and that same thing. Right. I trust you to be able to do your job. I'm not going to be breathing down your neck to get it done. Uh, that translated so well. So again, this culture before the pandemic was remote. Work is not an option. Everybody shows up 7:30 to 4:30 and it's a very clock in, clock out kind of a feel for things. And we were forced to go into a completely remote environment. And so then how do you adapt to that? Right. And ah, it boiled right back down to I trust you and I don't need to hear from you all the time. I'm not watching to see if your bubble turns orange and if you need to go walk the dog, if you need to go pick up the kids, it's fine. Just like all we got to do is communicate about things. All I'm worried about is that, uh, we're getting things done that need to get done and that I'm removing any roadblocks that you might have. Uh, and I'm here to be able to help.

Joni Musser: So, you know, that's the key, what you just said there. I found that great managers, great leaders, when they're connected to their employees in a way that they built that trust already, but they say, I'm here to remove those barriers or those roadblocks so that you can get your job done, so that if there's something that's in your way, you're helping on the back end to resolve those issues. So person working on the task can just get through it without having to keep stopping and waiting. And I'll tell you, from an instructional design standpoint, that is huge, because sometimes I'm working on a project and I'll get to a point where I just need a little more information from like, an SME or I've got this specific question, and I'll wait three or four days sometimes to get a response. Now, remember, I work contracts, so I'm not working for organization. I don't have an awesome leader like you right now to say, joanie, what's holding this one part up? Or I can't come to you and say, hey, Chris, this is what is holding me up on this one issue or this one task. And you say, no problem, I've got it handled, and you resolve it, and I can move right on that. I think any, uh, kind of role that you're supporting, that, to me, makes all the difference and helps build that relationship between a leader and the person that they're supporting. So I'm so glad you brought that up. I know a lot of the lessons that you've learned to become a better leader started when you were in the military. You've carried some of those powerful leadership lessons, I should say, from the military into your civilian life. Right. Because it's totally different. How has your military experience influenced your leadership style? Talk a little bit about, like, servant leadership. You and I talked about that one other time, so I'm curious.

Christopher Todd: Yeah, I just wanted to say one thing about the showing up for roadblocks. It's. It's easy when somebody says, hey, I can't get a hold of Jim. Can you get a hold of them? And so that I can do it. That's an easy. That's a speed bump. Right. A roadblock is when oftentimes you got to put yourselves in harm's way for somebody, because now it's become political and things are blowing up, and it's this huge mess, and it's way out of control. And. And it takes a. It takes a leader to be able to stand up. And especially in. In, like, a marketing field or training or, you know, there's oftentimes leaders in this type of an organ or this type of an environment will just lay down when they need to stand up and say, no, this is out of scope or this is not what we agreed to, or uh, this is what we can do and we can do this later and handle all that and then, and squash whatever the issue is so that whoever the person who's actually doing the work and just do the work. Like creative people need to be creative. They don't need to get bogged down trying to deal with politics. So that's the harder roadblock is actually kind of sticking your neck out sometimes and that helps to build trust.

Joni Musser: But, or even seeing or uh, I guess having that intuition where you know something that your employees don't know and you're able to foresee that it could be a problem in the future. And so you handle it without them even knowing it. Sometimes yeah.

Christopher Todd: There's a lot of times when I just kind of go, if you only knew like the amount of stuff we had to get just so that you had to deal with this. Um, but as far as the, the military influencing the leadership style, I feel like before I went to the military I didn't have leadership style. I was just kind of doing my own thing. I was pretty self centered and just a typ 20 something, no way guy. Right. And it did, it took a lot of the, the core values of, of the army to say integrity, self service leadership, making sure that you're doing the right thing when nobody's looking. And then, and what it ended up being as a young leader is you're like just starting as like a uh, as a sergeant of a platoon or whatever. You're just promoted from the guys who you were just like screwing around with. So like now you're the boss, so how do you get to do that? And what it ultimately ends up being is just like nobody's going to outwork me. And when I ask you to do something, you know that it's not anything that I wouldn't have already done myself. Right. And that we're all on the same team and we're all moving towards the same mission. The thing that often I feel like leaders get wrong is when you get direction. So it started in the military. You get an op order, the order comes down from your commander and it says, this is what we're going to do. This is our objective. You have one of two choices at that point. This translates into business world too. You can either come down and say brass says we have to do this and I don't understand what they're doing and it sounds dumb, but I guess we got to dig holes over here so whatever, or you can come to your guys and you can say, here's the mission, here's the objective. Anybody have any input on this? Do we want to change it in any way? All right, we're all on the same page. Go. And that means that, uh, even if you don't like whatever the thing was, if your CEO comes in and says, hey, we're implementing nine hour work days for the next three weeks because we have to get stuff done, you can relay that to your people in one of those two ways. And there's a direct correlation, if you like, between people that then get further away from the mission of the organization and people that closer to them.

Joni Musser: I think I've heard it said before in a way that when there's not great news that you have to deliver as a leader, you'll approach the people that you support and you could say, look, I don't like it either, but I'm here with you and let's do it together and let's find the value or let's find what's good about it together. Um, or let's learn a lesson together, something like that. Instead of, oh, I know it sucks, but we have to do it kind of thing, right? Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that kind of like the certain mentality you have to have to lead your team to show them that they're not alone, you're there supporting them, you're doing it too, and that helps maintain that trust. And then they're committed to you. They know that you're not just saying you have to do it, and I'm out.

Christopher Todd: Right.

Joni Musser: I think it brings in a little psychological safety.

Christopher Todd: Um, yeah, absolutely. It really does. You can't innovate in a space where you feel afraid to make mistakes.

Joni Musser: Absolutely. And not that everybody's making mistakes, but what do you do to give that space?

Christopher Todd: I mean, no bones about it, we make mistakes all the time. And, and I feel like if you're not pushing up against the point to where you're, you're making mistakes, then you're not pushing hard enough. Right. So if you're in a spot where you're completely error free and nothing ever happens, then I, I feel like you're not being innovative. Maybe there's not new things you're trying to. Now, does that mean that you can just, like, park Blanche, make all the mistakes you want, and we're just like, psychologically safe and so everybody is, Everybody's fine?

Joni Musser: No, everybody's just making mistakes everywhere.

Christopher Todd: I mean, you basically, you don't, you don't lead and you don't manage on individual instances. Right. You lead and you manage on trends. And so if somebody is making mistakes all the time and they understand what the standard is and they keep bumping up against it, then you figure out ways to try to help that person get to where they can be in an acceptable range or whatever. But if it's like this person made a mistake and it got caught, or we talked about it, or it didn't get caught and it got, uh, out there and we still figured out what the cause was, why it happened, and how we can avoid it in the future, fine. They have another one in another six months. We do the same thing. If that same mistake keeps happening over and over again. Oh, uh, conversation. Right. But I don't mind people bumping up against the outside boundaries of what's considered to be correct, because that just means that we're pushing through and we're trying to get as many things done, uh, as we can and we're being productive.

Joni Musser: Okay. So around this whole psychological safety, can you share an example of someone who took a risk and failed, but maybe came back stronger?

Christopher Todd: Sure. I feel like Eric is kind of our CEO has kind of given that environment for me. Right. I've swung and missed on a couple of things. And even when we're filling out the board report and we're going to tell his bosses about this. Right. I'm trying to protect him to make sure that there's anything that looks bad on his marks, and. And he's like, no, seriously, when we have a bad, uh, experience. It was like a digital ad campaign. I was like, I really think that this might help move the needle in this one specific area. Is it okay if we have a little bit extra budget to throw some money at this? And the thing just absolutely tanked. It did nothing. What I thought it would do. It was a bad recommendation for me based on, um, you know, whatever I decided. But at the end of the day, it was just like, hey, no sweat. We live, we learn, and we thought it might work. It just didn't work. And include that when we report it up to the board, because that builds the trust with us. Because if all you ever do is report up sunshine and rainbows, you're going to inherently think that this person's not being truthful with you. Because we're all human.

Joni Musser: Yeah. So making mistakes is something that we're all going to do, and it's great that you're admitting it. Hey, I made this mistake. Or we made this mistake, but this is how it turned out and this is how we're going to move forward and what we learned from it and why we won't. Do, you know, this, that or that again. Yeah.

Christopher Todd: I think it's interesting though is that inherently you end up in an organization where uh, some of the different parts of the organization like finance or member services or whatever, their entire existence is completely focused on being error free. Right. And so I always tell the cfo, uh, when she's like, maybe found an error or something and I was like, hey, listen, all my mistakes are completely public. You get to have them. If you make a mistake, Eric gets to point it out and be like, hey, what was this number? Nobody ever knows, right? So you can't be in uh, a public facing. Whether you're building, training, if you're in a learning and development organization, you're putting something out there that everybody's going to be able to see. And if you aren't okay with iteration and changing and fixing, hey, we know that there's going to be bugs in here as we go along. Um, you just have to manage everybody's expectations. But if you're trying to make it perfect, it'll never get done.

Joni Musser: That's true because different departments have to conceal things a little bit differently. Otherwise it might um, not build the trust that you're looking for. Let's talk about the grounding values around remc. I know you haven't posted in the conference room and how do you hold your team accountable to those values?

Christopher Todd: So it's pretty easy because the values that the cooperative operates on are common sense at the end of the day. These organizations were started in like the mid-30s, 1930s when people didn't have any power in rural America. And so average farmers got together and started creating these companies. Right. And so the principles that all cooperatives still operate under are that it's open to anybody, the people control it, that we all chip in and participate economically into it. And there's no free preloaders that are just in it for whatever. They're completely autonomous and independent from each other. That uh, education, training and information is a core principle of uh, making sure not only for our own people, but for the members that we serve, that we cooperate with other cooperatives so that when you butt up against another company that there's some competition there. And that the last one is that there's this huge concern uh, for the communities that we serve. And so when you, those principles, when you put them in, what it boils down to is that uh, we're not for profit. We're here for the communities that we serve. And we're here with a fiduciary responsibility to make sure that what we do for the members is always first and foremost. And when you have that base, it makes it a really good lens to say it's not like, well, how can we make more money? Or how can we do this? Or how can we do that? It's how can we make the right decision for the people who own us, which is our members. Right. When you keep that top of mind, there's nobody that's going to buck that. Right. Unless somebody's trying to take over the organization to be as profitable as possible, which then breaks those guiding principles. And m that's why the board of directors are just nine people that are members from our community. It's democratically controlled, it's open, it's voluntary. And so those people are driving the direction. And then we're just here to execute on that.

Joni Musser: Yeah. And a few things that you said there reminded me that you're not just a leader within the organization. You guys are a leader within the community that you're providing services to, but you also are leading the industry among some of your competitors. So first, tell us a little bit about, like, what you guys are doing to lead in your community. Some of the events and activities that you're sponsoring and you're attending and you're sending people through. I think that's really important because leadership isn't just about what we do inside of an organization behind closed doors. It's what we're doing to show our customers matter.

Christopher Todd: Yeah. It's the little things. Right. So like sporting, uh, T ball teams, high school football teams, being there as a contributor and a supporter for local band competitions or 4H. Or you, uh, know, there's several youth camps. We're going to one today. This afternoon, we're going to a camp to help teach the kids about what the organization is and what some of our guys do. Uh, from like a, you know, employment perspective and just to be there as part of a community leader. I serve on several boards in the community. To be able to have a voice for the organization. That's our things that are important with the chamber of commerce or Trails organization. But those are kind of like the small things really, when you can really step up as a community leader are things like when we built this building 20 years ago. We also recognize that there's a need in our community for a place to be the hub between the larger urban center and the Orthopedic capital of the world. And we're right smack dab in the middle of it. And not only did we build this building, but we built the entire office park as, uh, a community resource. Right. And then later sold off those lots. And the business park that this has created has led to jobs and revenue for the county. It spurred a whole kind of like Detroit, how you have places in Toledo that are making parts for cars and places in Lansing that are making parts for cars. Columbia City is also a, uh, pool to be able to feed into that orthopedic manufacturing center in Warsaw. So it's really like, really stepping up for when the community needs things like that. That's where co ops do it better than everybody. And I love the cooperative model. I really do feel like, truly the world would be a better place if more places were operated like we operate, where you're not for profit and you're trying to do the right thing for the people who you serve.

Joni Musser: Yes, I agree 1000% with you on that. I think the world would be a much better place because we would be putting people first.

Christopher Todd: Yeah.

Joni Musser: Um, okay. So let's look at your future. If someone reflects on your impact that you've had on them as a leader, and let's call it your leadership legacy. How would you want them to describe your leadership legacy in one sentence?

Christopher Todd: Well, I appreciate you giving me this question ahead of time so that I could think about what this sentence would be, because I really did. I, I thought about it a lot and I, I tried to incorporate what it is. I mean, I want to be known as a leader who got stuff done, um, cut through the noise and always made sure that my people had the tools, trust and support to do their best job. I want to be known as the person who was. You could give them a task and you knew it was going to get done, it was going to get done well, but not at the expense of the people that work. For me, it's helping them grow. I think that the hallmark of a good leader is to have people leave and to set them, uh, up for other jobs or other spots. Right. I think that also might be the dichotomy between a good leader and a great leader. I think a good leader tries to hold on to everything and tries to control everything and maybe doesn't want people to leave because then there's change and then there's another challenge. You have to train somebody new. Um, but I want to be remembered as somebody who got stuff done, who made complex things simple and who was able to give everybody who works for me every tool and opportunity available to them.

Joni Musser: I want you to teach a leadership course where you can help people reflect the way you did and then take what you've just said and apply it to their own leadership style. Because that's an attractive quality. Because I know even when I was up there talking, I say up there, y'. All. I'm in Florida, Chris is up in Indiana, and I went up there. I got to m meet both Chris and Eric. And what he just said isn't just him reflecting and then just saying what he hopes. It's really what's happening there in their workplace. So very powerful. What do you think it means, Chris, for a leader to have a mindset to learn?

Christopher Todd: Well, I think that it's non negotiable. I think you have to if you aren't interested in learning. You know, you talked about psychological safety. Emotional intelligence is also something that's super important for a good leader.

Joni Musser: Mhm.

Christopher Todd: And if you don't understand your industry, the trends, if you're not listening and actively learning about your people and what's going on in their lives or the things that are roadblocks for them or whatever, then you're just, you're not going to be a leader. I just don't think that it's something that's sustainable.

Joni Musser: Mhm. Is there a resource, a book, a podcast maybe, or another experience besides military? I know that's a big impact on you, that shaped how you lead and grow.

Christopher Todd: Um, it's, it's probably more reading for me than anything. There's been several great books that I've gotten to, to love over time. A lot of them are on my bookshelf over here. But it really was just staying in school, getting my master's degree, going through the MBA program, learning from people, and I'm a real experiential learner. So like along the way, it was learning by messing up, uh, it was learning by doing the wrong things thing. It was learning by finding yourself in a spot where you could go, however I did this, it didn't do what I wanted it to do. And then being able to be introspective about it and then being able to find parallels in some of those books later. Right. Because again, I'm 20 something, trying to lead guys in the army and I only have one way I want to do things. And as you get older and as you take in more information, the more that you pull in, whether it's podcasts, whether it's books, Whether it's tv, anything, like whatever you're pulling in, whatever media you want to consume. It's just different viewpoints and it's different ways to look at things. But I'm a big fan of digging in and getting outside of your comfort zone, picking up a book that maybe you don't really want. And I've also been kind of a nerd on the psychology side of it too. So I really like digging into, like, the actual psychology and the brain, the neuroscience of it. I love learning. It's kind of a cornerstone thing for me. But I would just say whatever you do, just keep doing it. Just do just more of it.

Joni Musser: And what I hear you say there is, you've already made learning part of your personal culture, I guess is a better way of saying it. And you are able to read new books and then make connections between your own experiences and be able to say, you know, maybe I could have done that differently. Or I look back and I realized, oh, that was really good, or, oh, that should be done differently. You're reflecting and then you're putting what you're learning into action, and that's evident.

Christopher Todd: The thing that pops into my head that I guess it started with the army, and it's the one thing that's kind of been along the journey the whole time is, um, the idea of a, of an AAR and After Action Report. Okay, so, like, you can read and you can try to apply and you can stay in school and you can study and all that kind of stuff. But if you sit down with the people who you lead a, uh, project that you manage, and as soon as it's done, you sit down and the steps of an After Action Report are what was supposed to happen, what did happen, what went well, what didn't go well. And you open yourself up to be vulnerable in those situations and be able to let people poke at you and say that this didn't go well because you didn't give us enough time to get things done. You didn't relay the orders in enough time or you thought it wouldn't be a big deal, but it was a big deal and we had traffic jam or whatever the situation is, and you allow yourself to sit there in that place with people that you are trying to lead, and you can be vulnerable and you can admit to them that like, hey, yeah, this is good stuff. These are all things that we'll do next time. And then you do what you say you're going to do. And so it's, it's, it's More. Yes. All of the book reading and all of the, like, traditional learning sense like that, uh, is also going to be good to be able to pull in an outside perspective. But there's nothing that replaces listening to the people who you just got done getting some project moved forward with and then having them say it was really hard to get this done because of X or Y and, and then learning from that and adapting it to how you create your own leadership style and then moving forward.

Joni Musser: Yes, those conversations, they are vulnerable, but they help build trust.

Christopher Todd: Yeah.

Joni Musser: Yeah. Chris, thank you so much for this great conversation. I hope the listeners understand why I had you on as a guest, because I'm motivated just by listening to everything that you're saying. So one more question for you. Where can our listeners connect with you online or how can they follow along with what you're doing at Northeastern Remc?

Christopher Todd: Yeah, um, you can check, uh, us out on our LinkedIn page or my personal page if anybody wants to connect with me. I'd love to hear from or be able to relay anything, just share notes. But, yeah, it's probably the best way. It's just like, look me up on LinkedIn or Northeastern's website is nremc.com um, we often post news stories there about things that we're doing in the community. Yesterday I got all dirty because we were releasing sheep under our solar field. So we're doing everything from building LMS to trying to do agrovoltaics out in the community. So it's a little bit of everything.

Joni Musser: And I think the way you guys have rolled that out has been fantastic listeners. You have to check out what they're doing with the, with this land that they've turned into a. Say the word again.

Christopher Todd: Agrovoltaics is the. Is the word. It's the smashing together of, uh, photovoltaics and agriculture. So basically it's the. Yeah, trying to get the land use figured out while we can still generate value for our members and still do something that's sustainable.

Joni Musser: And y', all, they had an intern from a high school come and work with them and came up with the idea to put these sheep out with the solar panels and to grow crops. And REMC awarded her a scholarship. So that, again, is another way that they're leading in the community and with co ops. So I applaud you guys for that. That's one of the things that makes me excited about your company.

Christopher Todd: Um, thank you so much.

Joni Musser: You're welcome. Chris. Thank you so much for being on the podcast.

Christopher Todd: Yeah. No problem.

Joni Musser: Hey, I told you that was going to be an awesome discussion. Chris just reminded us that great leadership means getting things done. Yeah, and making sure your people have the tools, trust, and support to grow. His mix of humility and action is something we can all learn from. Don't forget to check out the show notes, though, for all the topics that we mentioned today. You're going to find links to connect with Chris, of course, and some highlights from the episode. And I challenge you to check out the incredible work that's happening at Northeastern Remc.