Episode 47 | Warren Miles-Pickup | Developing an Owners Mindset

Speaker A: Enabling people and by empowering them, by giving them the ability to make decisions, uh, you know, they're going to stay because they feel ownership over it and they feel a responsibility and they want to see it grow. And when they have that success, they get to take ownership over that success, which is an incredible feeling. That's what we all want is that feeling of success.

Speaker B: Welcome to the Executive Leadership Podcast. On this episode we are going to speak with Warren Miles pickup, and we're going to be talking to him about finding and developing an owner's mindset for your team. I think this is a very important topic because we're all looking for owners, uh, in our team. We want people to um, act like owners and be of greater value to us as leaders. And so we're going to be talking about how to develop your team and have that owner's mindset. Of course you're not going to have everyone have that same mindset, but how do you have a good balance with owners, renters and spotters as well? So we're going to be talking with Warren a little bit more about that and really hope that you enjoy this brand new episode.

Speaker C: Well Warren, welcome to the podcast.

Speaker A: Thank you very much. Thanks for having me.

Speaker C: Yeah, it's happy uh, to have you on uh, and uh, you know, really interested in uh, really taking a deep dive on our, on our topic today which is really uh, finding, develop, finding and developing an owner's mindset within the team. I know this is a uh, really, really big challenge, uh, in leadership and, and really, really difficult to uh, help shift people's mindset to take more of an ownership uh, mindset. Uh, with uh, the context we're in today with uh, multigenerational workforce.

Speaker A: Yeah, it can certainly be very challenging. But uh, it's an essential part of running and growing a business. If you want to uh, have scale, uh, there's only so much that you as a business owner or a manager can do. Um, you really need to develop out a team to be able to uh, get beyond the limitations of a single individual.

Speaker C: Yeah. So I wanted to start off by um, really talking about that owner's mindset. Uh, what does it truly mean to have that owner mindset when you're a part of a larger team?

Speaker A: Yeah, the owner's mindset is really focused around somebody that uh, can take accountability for their actions. They really take ownership over their role within the team. They um, and by taking ownership I mean that they want to see it advance. They're driven to see that role expand to See the growth of it, to see the advancement of it, to see the improvements of it. Um, they go beyond just checking in and checking out.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: It's that they have a, um, whether it's intrinsic or an altruistic belief, uh, inside of them that what they're doing drives value and so they want to see it grow and succeed. That, that to me is, is an owner's mindset.

Speaker D: Mhm.

Speaker C: Yeah. It's really amazing when you have these individuals on your team that have that mindset. But I think really the root of it, where it starts and where I think leaders have challenge, are very challenged with having people are in their team really develop an owner's mindset is really goes back to hiring, I think as well, and the hiring process. Because oftentimes at that point we can identify whether or not this person can be molded or developed to even have that owner's mindset. Because not everyone is going to come in and have that owner's mindset right away.

Speaker A: No. And uh, a lot of people will never get there. They're not interested in that. They want to come to work from 9 to 5 and they want to go home. And that's great. There are plenty of roles within every business that requires somebody to do that. But in order to, as a business owner to expand and scale, there are aspects of what you do as an individual that need to be delegated to people that have that owner's mindset and searching for a few of them. You don't have to have a whole team of them, but having a few of them will uh, inevitably make you incredibly more, uh, successful and will allow you to live a much more balanced life than having to carry all of that weight on your own shoulders.

Speaker C: And it will help you too, uh, when it comes to maybe growing the business or optimizing the business or taking it to another level. Those owners, uh, those people that have those owners mindset are really going to help you and champion you and help you get there. Um, whatever your vision might be, where you want to take the business team or company.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, totally agree. I would say the most significant challenge with having owner's mindset, uh, individuals, and I would say this is probably why people don't necessarily target them, is that you have to compensate them in the right way and you have to keep them motivated in the right way. And if you, if you don't have that structure set up, you'll constantly be concerned that they are overtaking you or that they're, you know, shooting for your job or anything. Like that. And quite frankly I would love if my employees shot for my job if they wanted to become, you know, cmo, coo, owner of the business. That is fantastic news for me because they're going to put in all that work to get there and, and at some point they're going to earn it. And I'm fine with, with my business getting to a point where my employees want, now want an ownership stake in the business because they're going to drive even harder and it's going to, it's that rising tide that floats all boats. That's what I want to push for is people that are interested in taking on my role because it means that I've succeeded.

Speaker D: Mhm.

Speaker C: Yeah. I had the conversation maybe a couple episodes ago with someone and leadership is all about your people and helping developing people. Because if you're not doing that, they're not being a leader.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.

Speaker C: You're just delegating out, uh, you know, these minute tasks. And that's really what you want to see, um, in leadership is truly developing people, having people go to the next level. And if it means them elevating past you, then you did a great job as a leader.

Speaker A: Exactly. I think there's a lot of people that are afraid of that and, and not to say that this is the only way to run a business. Like you can run a business with just order takers and implementers and that's fine. You just, you're putting a huge amount of pressure on yourself to come up with the ideas and to provide the direction and understand how those people need to implement. But uh, there is, there's a limit to how far you can go with that model until you bring in people that can take some of that delegation, some of that ideation, you know, all those other concepts off of your plate in order to drive those, those people you're delegating to.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think, and I think where all this starts with is really empowerment is really leader empowering the teams. Because if we're not empowering our teams, then you're not going to get those type of people. You're going to keep everything at, at your desk, keep everything at your uh, at your seat that you have. Um, you're not going to be elevating your team, you're not going to be elevating your business and uh, you're going to become more and more stressed out. I mean I went through this, I, I replace someone or succeeded someone, uh, that was like that, that what did not empower their team. And um, I was so stressed out. I was so stressed out the first 90 days being in that role. And to realize that you have to empower, uh, empowerment is, is key to, to really having people take that owner's mindset.

Speaker A: And you didn't stay, did you?

Speaker C: Was that in that role?

Speaker A: You didn't stay in that role. You wound up leaving it. Right.

Speaker C: I ended up developing someone and then I was off to the next thing.

Speaker A: Exactly. That's, that's the challenge you have is, is if you micromanage and you stifle, uh, and, and are jealous about uh, other individuals within your team or your employees, you will have a massive turnover rate and you'll constantly, constantly be reteaching people how to do things that, that you need them to do. And it just sucks all of your time and energy right out of you into doing something that you didn't want to be doing in place. Um, whereas by enabling people and by empowering them, by giving them the ability to make decisions, uh, they're going to stay because they feel ownership over it and they feel a responsibility and they want to see it grow. And when they have that success, they get to take ownership over that success, which is an incredible feeling. That's what we all want, is that feeling of success. And if you can give that to them, man, they will stay there and be loyal and be hardworking and drive for you, um, you know, for, for the rest of their time. I, I was always taught that there are two styles of leadership. There's ah, leadership through fear, which is, you know, those people that are constantly afraid that they're going to be reprimanded, that they're, that something bad's going to happen if they don't get their work done, um, all that sort of thing. And then there's, there's leadership through respect. And uh, that's, you know, the individuals that are aspiring to, to do something because they know that it's going to be good for you, they have, they're vested in your success. The problem with leadership through fear is the second the leader is not looking, that fear has been removed. There's no incentive for them to continue to work hard or to get things done or uh, or to take ownership over a situation. Leadership through respect, even when you're not around, they want to see that success happen because they know that it's going to be positive for you, that they are trying to drive you forward because they want to see you succeed, because they know that your success results in their success. That's true, successful leadership. And that's when you're building an owner's mindset team. That's how you have to look at it, that it's all leadership through respect.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's really good. I wanted to speak to, from the other perspective, from the team members perspective, because I think this is a real challenge in the workforce and this is nothing new. Um, but leaning on my experience rising to leadership roles, it can be really challenging to take on that owner's mindset as a, as a team member.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker C: Um, because you see, it's kind of like that comparison game. You see others not doing so they're just doing the night. And you need those people.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: You need people that they show up to work, do their job and go home. And that's great. Uh, and it's the very few that are going to set themselves apart and take on that owner's mindset. But sometimes speaking to the aspiring leaders out there, um, like why is it important to, if you feel that nudge or calling into leadership, why should you even pursue taking that owner's mindset given the fact that maybe you might be the only person on your team doing that?

Speaker A: It's a really good question and it is, it's a huge question. Uh, in today's corporate environment and business environment, um, there's so much resentment towards other people and you know, they're, well, they're getting the same or more pay than me and I'm putting in all the work. You might not be working at the right place, frankly. Like if, if you're not being, uh, respected, if you're not being appreciated for, for the extra work that you're putting in, if you're not being rewarded for it, you know, if your compensation isn't being tied to that, that mindset and, and what you're offering to, uh, the company and to your leadership, then you may need to make a change because they, they might not have the right, um, the right model for, for somebody like you. Um, I would suggest first talking to leadership about it and just saying, hey, this is my commitment. You know, as somebody who takes ownership over their area, this is what I'd like to do. How can we ensure that I am properly incentivized, uh, to, to keep doing this, and if the company says, well, we're not going to do anything, then, you know, you're not working in the right place. Um, I think communication and being transparent about what you're looking to achieve is, is vital because leaders can't, they can't instill that motivation. They can't reward you if they don't know what it is that you're wanting. Um, um, I would, I would also argue that what other people do should have no impact on how you live your life. You should be living your life based on what intrinsically rewards you. If you feel that, uh, if you're constantly comparing yourself to everybody else, you're never going to be happy. You have to be doing that thing that is, that drives you, that inspires you. And if taking ownership over a part of the process or over a department or whatever makes you feel good because you know you're impacting customers, you're impacting employees, you're impacting whoever it may be, if that makes you feel good, then you should continue doing it. If you're not getting that feeling right, if it's just because, oh, I just want a promotion because there's going to be more money to it eventually that's going to fail. You'll reach a point where that stops. You have to truly believe what you're doing is in the best interest of yourself and those around you, that you're offering something of value to everybody else for it to keep you going. For that motivation to remain m. I

Speaker C: think that's the key is what are you doing to add value?

Speaker A: Yeah, that, I mean that's the question to everybody in everything that we do. I have taken the idea of value first as kind of the core of my personal philosophy. How can I drive value for other people in every interaction that I have? Uh, can I offer them some piece of advice? Can I make them feel better about themselves? Can I help them to grow as an individual? Can I help their business? Anything that I can do, if I can, if I can push value for them, I know that long term that will come back to me, whether it's from them or from somebody else. Uh, and inevitably it makes me feel good because I gave them value. I know that they're walking away going, geez, I'm really glad I had that conversation.

Speaker D: Mhm.

Speaker C: Yeah. And I think it's too as having that mindset of value creation because uh, those that don't have that mindset of more, they're trying to take an owner's mindset, but it's more for just growth, just to get that level.

Speaker A: It's abstractive.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it shows. Um, but going back to kind of the leaders, um, how do you balance autonomy and accountability when really trying to encourage your team and team members to truly adopt that owner's mindset? Because it can be a real Challenge for leaders to have that balance of uh, both autonomy, you know, letting them uh, find their own way to accountability. Now how do I hold them accountable?

Speaker A: Yeah, that's another really good question. Um, probably one of the most difficult stages of building a business with an owner's mindset is balancing. How do I give you the autonomy that you need, but also hold you accountable to the goals of the business? Um, and one of the most successful things that we have done is asking those employees with an owner's mindset, what do you want your goals to be for this next quarter or for this year? Like what are the things that you believe you want to accomplish? Because if they're truly the owners of that area of that department, um, that role, they're going to have things that they want to accomplish and uh, that they're going to push forward, that, that they believe is going to help. And then it's just making sure that those goals that they have are aligned with the corporate goals. And once you've got that alignment, you can allow them to run with it. Um, communication is by far the most essential piece of the whole thing is understanding what they want, um, and making sure that that aligns with what you want. Um, and then giving them very, very clear, uh, expectations as to what needs to be accomplished and when it needs to be accomplished, um, and then checking in with them and making sure that they have all the tools that they need to accomplish it. Uh, that's all you really need to do in order to balance autonomy and uh, empowerment is making sure that it's all aligned and then letting them go. Um, and if you've hired the right people, you'll know before you give them, uh, autonomy as to whether they're going to be the right person or not. Because they will, they will have proved it either in the interview or before the interview or in their previous roles with you that they want to take on that leadership position, that they want to inspire, that they want to add value. Um, it will be very clear those people stand out. Um, you know, some people call them suck ups or whatever, but the reality is those are the individuals that are trying to drive something, they're trying to accomplish something rather than just being there from nine to five.

Speaker C: And I think something that you said is, is having those check ins with them more, more frequent because, um, you know, nowadays those annual performance reviews or semi annual reviews are not enough. And having those, those touch points throughout the week, uh, informal or formal, just to ensure that you're in tune with that person's development and that you ensure they're engaged because once you stop checking in with them, once you really don't not are not valuing them as a, as a leader, then you'll see them disengage and pull back. Because if their efforts are not being valued, um, then they'll have no purpose.

Speaker A: We have a bi weekly scorecard review, uh, with all of our executives so that we understand where everybody's at and can uh, adjust what we're doing based on the problems that they're facing, can give feedback to them and advice. And then it, it I have made a purpose of always ending, ending the call with a thank you to them for all of the work that they put in for the ownership that they take over their departments. Um, and you know, whether it's, whether it comes uh, across as corny or anything to do that every time it's ensuring that they recognize, um, or it's ensuring that they understand that I recognize the effort that they're putting in, um, and that, that I see them as owners of the business, whether they own a share of the business or not, that, that they're, that everything they're doing is making an impact on all of us and that, that I'm vested in their success as much as they are vested in my success.

Speaker B: Well, thank you so much for tuning in today to the Executive Leadership podcast. I really hope that you learned a lot with my discussion with Warren and

Speaker C: if you want to learn more, feel

Speaker B: free to check out some of the previous episodes, uh, that we've had on the podcast so far this year and feel free to go back and listen, uh, to some of the previous episodes. Feel free to like, share and subscribe, uh, share this with someone that you think might need to, um, have this content in their hands on whichever platform that you're listening on. Thank you again for tuning in on today's episode and we thank you, uh, for all your support. Don't forget to subscribe so that you receive a notification when the next episode goes live. Thank you and take care.

Speaker D: Mhm, Mhm, mhm, Mhm, mhm, Mhm, mhm, Mhm, mhm, Mhm, mhm, Mhm.

Speaker B: That's good.

Speaker C: Um, what were, what do you think are some of the challenges that leaders might have, uh, when really trying to instill that owner's mindset?

Speaker A: Trust. Trust is the number one. Just trusting people that they're going to do their jobs. And we have all had so many bad experiences with employees or with um, co workers or anything like that that we see how Bad things can go that it's really difficult to let go of something, particularly if you're an owner yourself. You don't want to give up control of something. Um, and as owners, we tend to be control freaks. Uh, you know, we want to own everything, we want everything to be perfect, but you can't. Um, I would say the beyond trust, the number one thing that's challenging is when things do go wrong, that you can't just fire employees. You have to give them the opportunity to correct it. You have to show them where things went wrong. You have to walk them through it, how they can handle the situation better the next time and, and show them that you appreciate them taking the opportunity to learn, the opportunity to be better at what they do. Um, because if you just start saying, you know what, this was a massive screw up, you're out. Um, you just, you damage the morale of the whole company. And if that person had an owner's mindset and they made a mistake in taking, um, action on something that they felt they had ownership over, uh, you're going to completely eliminate that from the rest of your team because nobody will believe that you actually want them to take ownership. You're just, it will come across as the impression that you're just saying that to squeeze more blood from the stone. Um, whereas if you can, if you can trust them, believe that they were making the best decision with the information they had and training that they had at the time and then take that and move it forward, you will gain more trust from that individual in that you're going to support them through the mistakes, but you'll also show the rest of the team that there is a, that there's a, uh, level of safety and comfort that they can strive to also be, to uh, have that owner's mindset. I would say that if you can do that, you will have such a massively positive impact on your leadership style and the leadership of those people within your team.

Speaker D: Mhm.

Speaker C: Yeah. And I think that's really important because that's where the person grows when they make a mistake and they, and you're able to as a leader go and correct them and guide them to maybe uh, changing their perspectives or changing the way they view whatever that that task or project was. That would be that that of course is what you want, is people to grow. And if they're not going to grow, but they're not going to grow if you let them go.

Speaker A: That's right.

Speaker C: Uh, they won't know what they did wrong. But I really like the other thing you said is trust. And I think trust is key uh, in leadership. And this is like a whole another podcast episode. But I've seen so many leaders um, lose trust in an instant and it's so difficult for, to get back to that level that you were and. Yeah, and it goes back to integrity too. I think integrity, ah, is, is, is crucial to a uh, leader's um, not only success but like rapport with, with the team. And I think going back to trust, trust is like really the foundations of, of leadership because if you don't have that you're um, not going to get owners.

Speaker A: No, no, exactly. There's, there's an interesting clip that was going around a little while ago of a guy who's being interviewed in a, um, in a mall. And uh, and this person walks right in front of them between the camera and you know, the people being interviewed and uh, the interviewer goes what the hell? And, and the guy that's being interviewed says never assign to malice what can be assigned to ignorance.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: And his point was that the vast majority of decisions that we make are not out of malice.

Speaker D: Right.

Speaker A: 99% of decisions or mistakes that we, that we make have nothing to do with malice. We're not, we're not thinking of harming somebody else or anything like that. We're doing it because we just don't know the impact it's going to have on other people. We're ignorant to that. We're self centered, we're, we're focused on ourselves. And so to think that an employee is doing something out of malice versus doing something because they didn't necessarily know the right way to do it and will completely inhibit your growth as a company. You have to first assume that people just didn't know what the right way to do it was so that you can then go back and teach them how to improve and how to be better at what they're doing so that they can take more and more ownership over what they're doing versus just assigning it to, hey, this person got, they, they, they're doing this to hurt me, um, which is our natural inclination. We need to remove that from our heads.

Speaker C: Yeah. Um, you shared a little bit about uh, what you do with uh, your team. Do you have any other examples or stories to share like how to really embrace that owner's mindset, uh, with your team?

Speaker A: Um, I mean there's a number of things we do, whether it be education. So uh, if an employee or one of our team members wants to uh, take on an additional certification or additional training.

Speaker B: Training.

Speaker A: Um, we made it really easy for them to apply, uh, to get that paid for. Um, we also uh, we allow them to take on um, business ideas. So if they have an idea for revenue generation or for cost suppression or anything like that, we'll let them run with it. Um, if they want to do something outside of the work that they're doing with us, we will partner with them to be a part of it in the future. So we really try not to hold people back if they tell us, you know, I really love working in animation with you, but I want to develop out my own um, animation, ah, story or whatever it may be. We will partner with them to provide them with resources to go and do that. We want to be a part of the long term success of everybody that works here. Um, and if that means they're not working with us, but they're still dealing with us down the road, okay. So we've developed somebody from being um, one of our team members to being a business partner. And that to me is, is very rewarding to get to be involved in their success long term. Um, and that's, I think that is, that is the next step that you can take with, with the idea of an owner's mindset is helping these people to become business owners themselves. You know that the Henry Ford model of building cars was that he wanted to pay his employees enough that they could each drive one of his cars. The same is true with us in that we want to empower our employees to, if they want to start their own business, that we're going to be there with them for their own business. That we're, that we are going to, we believe in them so much that we will then invest in what it is that they want to do outside of us.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's awesome. One of the things that you mentioned is really, is really um, going to the team and asking for their feedback and ideas. And I think this is crucial to develop that owner's mindset. Uh, from the team where it's not just the leader or the leadership team or the executives with coming up with the answers is engaging the team at all levels. Like, hey, we want your feedback and actually taking action. Because how many times have have leaders gone to their teams and done nothing or just blew off every idea?

Speaker A: The majority of the time I'm asking the team to take action before I'm, I'm providing them with what I think they should be doing. You know, I will go to them and say, hey, can you tell Me how you think we should resolve this. And then I will go through and tweak what, what they've put together to say, hey, this is where this maybe falls a little short. This could potentially create a conflict over here. How would you address this potential problem that's going to come up if you do this, that sort of thing. But it is. I'm empowering them to come up with the ideas and to, to drive forward so that they then have ownership over that process. And it results in a lot more satisfaction because they're getting to drive their own success versus having it be totally edict by somebody else. Yeah.

Speaker C: And I think even those terrible ideas that you get or feedback that. I think one of the things that I really cherished early on, uh, when I entered the workforce is I had a great leader that I tossed crazy ideas to, but he would explain me why he can't do this. Or maybe he fell short in thinking about this. And it gave me different perspectives and a different lens to look at it rather than from my point of view, where it was a frontline role at the time. And I grew just from that, even though my ideas maybe were, uh, crazy.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's. When you do that, it gives the leader the opportunity to show somebody, uh, you know, how to solve those problems. Because every proposal we come up with is inevitably going to have some areas that are missed. There's going to be problems in it, and having a lot of eyes on it is going to help you to come up with ways to find those problems and to solve them. I am a really, really strong believer in a yes but culture and not a no culture.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: So, yes, but here's the things that need to be solved first.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Rather than just straight up, nope, we can't do that because of this, this and this.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: I think the second you start getting into a, uh, no first culture, everything shuts down, all progress stops. Because nobody wants to bring up ideas because they know the answer is going to be no. Whereas a yes but culture allows them to throw out an idea, figure out what the problems with it are, and then solve those problems so that the idea can move forward.

Speaker C: I think one of the challenges that leaders have too is, um, measuring as we, as we kind of wrap up conversation here, is measuring the effectiveness of what they're doing to really promote and cultivate having that owner's mindset amongst their team. What are your, what are your thoughts on this? Of, of measuring the effectiveness of it? Because this.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it's, it's very challenging to Measure it on a quantitative basis like you, you really do have to measure it on a qualitative basis. 360 reviews are, are a great way to do that. So you have all your employees provided reviews on, on everybody. Um, so, you know, we'll put out a survey or whatever to our employees about our managers and that sort of thing so that we're all getting feedback. Even as owners, we're getting feedback on, on what we're doing. Um, that's, that's one way to do it, but it's, it's really about asking the right questions because, you know, providing a score doesn't do it. You need, you need real experiential, um, feedback that, that showcases, you know, how people are behaving in certain situations so that you can provide, you can provide training and feedback based on those situations. Um, if you just say, you know, rate your manager out of one to five, you're not getting the information that you need to, to be able to make a real change. Whereas if you're asking, you know, tell us about, uh, an instance where your manager made you feel like you were really a part of the team. Tell us about a time where your manager, um, made you feel like you were just a cog in the machine. And then being able to identify those different situations and speak to that when you're doing training, um, is really helpful to get people back into that, um, like ephemeral state that they were in when they were actually going through the action so that they can identify what decisions it was that led them to doing things the way that they did it and then potentially rebuild muscle memory in those, those particular instances so that the next time that situation comes up, they know that they need to take a different course.

Speaker C: Warren, I think this was a great conversation on set and really, really enjoyed this. But before we wrap up and, and uh, wrap up our conversation, have a little bit of a rapid fire of questions to kind of, uh, end on a lighter note.

Speaker A: Sounds great.

Speaker C: And for people to get to know you a little bit better. Sure. Uh, so the first question is, uh, what is it that you do to develop, uh, yourself both personally and professionally? Uh, what are some of the things that, that you do?

Speaker A: I, I read a lot, as you can see behind me. Reading, um, a lot. Constantly, um, educating myself, you know, going to, to conferences, speaking with thought leaders, um, and therapy. Honestly, therapy is a pretty big one. Um, getting help with my own biases and uh, the things that have happened in my life to understand what held me back, uh, when I worked in an environment that, that wasn't, uh, an owner's mindset environment and learning what not to do to other people, what not to do to my family. Um, and then how to have more engaging and better conversations.

Speaker C: M. That's good. Uh, do you have maybe a recommended book that you've read recently?

Speaker A: I have a lot of recommended books, but I would say if I were going to give you two of my favorite books of all time, it would be, uh, the Science of Selling by David Hoffeld and the Ultimate Sales Machine by Chet Holmes. I think those are for anybody who's in marketing or sales or needs to convince people to do things, which is essentially leadership. Um, those are, those are the two books that had the greatest impact on, on how I do things. Uh, now.

Speaker C: Awesome. Um, next, uh, question is dead or alive, who would you like to have lunch with? Ooh.

Speaker A: Dead or alive, who would I like to have lunch with? I would say that I would have. I would love to have lunch. Oh man, you know, I'd love to have lunch with Anthony Bourdain. Anthony, uh, Bourdain, for sure. I, you know, I never really got upset about celebrity deaths or anything like that. That one had a profound impact on me. He was outspoken, he was intelligent, he was, uh, right on the edge of, you know, that, that divisive and, um, you know, lovable line. He just, the man had it all. I would love to sit for a meal or would have loved to have sat for a meal with him.

Speaker C: Awesome. Uh, next question is what is the next thing that you would like to do on your bucket list?

Speaker A: Next thing I'd like to do on my bucket list, I would love to go fly fishing in Montana for big brown trout.

Speaker D: Mhm.

Speaker C: That sounds like a fun time.

Speaker D: Mhm.

Speaker C: Yeah. Uh, the final question is, what is the best words of advice or wisdom of wisdom that you have received so far?

Speaker A: Oh, my, my dad was a prolific giver of, of advice and little phrases. And I would say the one that has had the greatest impact on me is that life is a perpetual battle to find balance and that, you know, that we will. We essentially spend end every moment just trying to find that point, that single point where we can balance our entire lives and, and not tip over into too much work, too much of anything. It's, it's really about making sure that everything aligns and is supporting each other

Speaker C: well. Awesome. Well, I think this is a good, good place to kind of end the conversation. Warren, thank you so much, uh, for your time and your insights. Uh, thank you for, um, being on the podcast.

Speaker A: Absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.