Episode 48 | Sara Taylor | Thinking at the Speed of Bias

Speaker A: Develop your cultural competence. M that's what helps us to be able to check and challenge our unconscious filters. And you know, good news is there are processes to do that. The bad news is the vast majority of us haven't developed to the stages where we're actually able to check and challenge. But any of us can.

Speaker B: Welcome to the Executive Leadership podcast. On today's episode we have uh, DI expert Sarah Taylor and she's going to be talking about her brand new book about thinking at the speed of how to shift our unconscious filters. So we're going to be talking about unconscious bias and what this means. And um, she does very excellent work with individuals and also organizations and the area of uh, dei. And so you're going to hear from Sarah Taylor about um, what this means for you, how you can develop your competencies, uh, in talking about bias. And this is so essential, especially when uh, being an executive leader. So I really hope that you enjoy this episode with Sarah Taylor on thinking at the speed of um, bias. Well Sarah, welcome to the podcast, uh, really happy to, to have you on and congratulations on your new book release.

Speaker A: Thank you so much Cameron. I really, really appreciate it. Yes, it's exciting to have it just released.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I think your book is such an important topic and for those listening or uh, your new book is called Thinking at the Speed of Bias. And I actually just released an episode about this topic. We're talking about um, you know, understanding the uniqueness of everyone on your team and leadership and just in our day to day and I think it's, it's such an important book. But Sarah, to kind of start off our conversation with this topic in your book, what really inspired you to, to want to write about a topic uh, such as this?

Speaker A: Well, this has really been all of my career. I have been a diversity, equity and inclusion practitioner for 35 years now and, and uh, really, uh, especially in the area of cultural competence. I mean we do work with organizations and everything related to diversity, equity and inclusion. But how and where I have become a thought leader is in the field of cultural competence and tying that to unconscious bias. And so I have the opportunity on a daily basis to be working with clients and in both individuals and organizations in helping them to develop their effectiveness, enabled to be more equitable and inclusive. And so continually I am updating tools and learning new research and it was just time to come, uh, out with a second book to uh, release those tools and those learnings and that research to more people beyond just my clients.

Speaker B: M. I wanted to start with the definition of unconscious bias. I think that's a great place to start before we take a deep dive into it. What's your definition of unconscious bias?

Speaker A: Yeah, I define unconscious bias as an unconscious explanation or evaluation. Uh, so just start with that. There's more to the definition, but I'll just pause with that piece, um, where that evaluation takes place and is in our, what I refer to as my unconscious filters. Our filters are automatic mechanisms operating in our unconscious that decide for us. They take in exponentially more information than we can ever be consciously aware of. And then they explain and evaluate all of that information and then create our, our decisions, our thoughts, our actions. So that explanation and evaluation happening in, uh, with our unconscious, uh, filters that are based on our own past experiences and based on all of the stereotypical information that we have taken in in our lifetimes. Unconscious bias can be both positive or negative. And I think that's one thing that most folks think about. I think most folks think unconscious bias is some kind of negative assumption that we have about marginalized groups. Well, it can just as much be positive assumptions about dominant groups. If you think about the typical situation in organizations where there aren't, we'll just say identity A, identity B, whatever those identities might be, that typically in organizations they have one identity as the majority in leadership, and they say, okay, we've got a ton of identity A, we want more identity B. And they try and they try and they try, and they can't, and they can't, and they can't. Could that be because of a, uh, negative bias toward identity B? Yes, but it could also be because of a positive bias toward identity A. And both have to be addressed. So that unconscious explanation or evaluation based on our own past experiences that may be positive or negative, and that because they confirm our past experiences, we believe it to be true even if it isn't.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's so true. And the reality is we all come with our own different biases from, like you mentioned, our different experiences, uh, that we've had both good and bad in. It could be from our upbringing, the way we were raised. Um, like, like, for example, like, um, I grew up on the right side of town but went to school on the wrong side of town. So I have a lot of biases that came from those different experiences. You know, growing up on a good area and then going to school in, um, not a great area. Um, but I think it's so challenging, especially in roles of leadership, to really address these unconscious biases that you're talking about. And Even today it's a real struggle for me because, um, my first impression of someone comes from my biases. And it's, it's not until you really meet someone or maybe meet an organization or interact with them and really understand who they are is like, oh my, my biases were completely wrong about this. Identity A or identity B. And um, how do, how do you recommend that people really, or individuals and organizations really address the unconscious biases that they have?

Speaker A: Mhm. Mhm. Yeah. Two things. The big answer is develop your cultural competence. That's what helps us to be able to check and challenge our unconscious filters. And you know, good news is there are processes to do that. The bad news is the vast majority of us haven't developed to the stages where we're actually able to check and challenge. But any of us can. Um, a little bit more specifically one of the, uh, tools that we use, I call the active conscious process. Um, so it helps to understand first what the passive conscious process is. So we'll get at that with a couple of those data points that I mentioned earlier. Um, and with a couple of questions. So, uh, I mentioned earlier that our unconscious takes in a lot of information. Any guesses how many pieces of information we take in in one second? Just take a guess.

Speaker B: A lot? Millions? A lot?

Speaker A: Yes. A lot? Yes. Millions? Yes. 11 million.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: Uh, 11 million pieces of information in just one second. But we're conscious of only 40 of those. So it means our unconscious is absorbing information that we aren't aware of that we may even disagree with. I may have taken in information that says that me as a woman, I shouldn't be in the workplace, or that as a, uh, uh, wife of a mixed race, in a WIX mixed race family, I shouldn't have that family or whatever it might be. So first of all, our unconscious, taking in unconscious filters, taking in that information, then the other thing is our unconscious actually creates our thoughts. And the way I always do this when I'm in training sessions, I say to people, okay, real quick, tell me what's your next thought going to be? And of course no one can. We can't because it's formulated in our unconscious. So what happens? And if we think about what do we pay attention to? We pay attention to external behaviors that we can see or identities that we can see.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Well, what created that behavior? It was a conscious thought. Well, what created the conscious thought? It was an unconscious filter. So of those three steps though, what can typically be missing is the conscious thought. That's the passive conscious process. That the vast majority of us operate in m on a daily basis. Our unconscious filters just go straight to dictating our thoughts, our decisions, and our behaviors. And if our conscious is involved at all, it's just kind of a rubber stamp of approval. What we talk about, what I talk about is utilizing the active conscious process. That's what we're doing when we're in those higher stages of cultural competence where we're able to check and challenge what's coming up from our unconscious. Check and challenge. Weed out any of the subjective, the biased information and challenge it before it gets to creating an action.

Speaker B: Can you expand a little bit about what you meant by that concept of filter?

Speaker A: Yeah. So again, our filters are automatic mechanisms that operate in our unconscious. They have three functions. To absorb exponentially more information than we can be conscious of, to explain and evaluate, analyze that information, and then to create our decisions. So we're taking in so much on a moment by moment basis. If we were consciously aware of them, we really couldn't function. We couldn't do all that we do. We need our unconscious to be working behind the scenes. And it's our unconscious filters that are doing all of that work. But the problem is when we see that end result of a, uh, behavior, that end result of a thought, all originating with the filter, whether that behavior in that thought was equitable or inequitable, whether it was inclusive or exclusive, whether it was effective or ineffective, it originated with an unconscious filter. And that's why we've got to be able to check and challenge them.

Speaker B: I'd love to hear kind of your experiences working with different organizations over the, you know, the, the you've been doing work in the DI space for, for so long. Um, I'd love to hear when organizations or individuals reach out to you, what are the major pain points that organizations are facing when it comes to, uh, dei and what, what type of help are they looking for?

Speaker A: I would, yeah, I would say the most persistent thing that we see are lack of representation, inequitable representation.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: So, you know, like I mentioned earlier, identity A, identity B. You get a lot of identity A in leadership and not Too many identity Bs, whatever that might be, um, that is persistent across industries and remains so. And a lot of that is because folks haven't developed, organizations haven't developed their cultural competence to be able to address that from a more effective place. The other that we see is just as individuals, uh, just as we as individuals create filter driven behaviors, organizations create filter driven cultures. So the culture of organizations that tend to support the filters of the dominant culture. Well, what that does then is it sets up systems that are not favorable for folks that are in the non dominant culture. So you end up with lack of retention, you end up with microaggressions, you end up with situations. We have heard in every single organization that we have done focus groups, we hear from people of color in the organization that say, you know, I experience microaggressions and I have to work 150% to be perceived as if I'm working only 75 to nonetheless be passed up for promotion. And it's given to the person that just started a year ago, even though I've been here for 10 years. We hear that over and over and over again in organizations.

Speaker B: Uh, and I think you're right. It's, it's that cultural competence that needs to be developed. Because even I've seen a lot of organizations kind of just incorporate DI work just to kind of check the box. Yes. When it's really not truly part of their culture, it's more of, okay, covered this, move on. And then you don't really see any, any changes.

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker B: Uh, across the organization. And, and it's, it's a really difficult topic for people to understand. I remember when I went through the training myself as a leader with the company I was with, I didn't understand what they were talking about because it was just so high level, it was very dry. It, everyone knew it was there to check the box. So what can organizations really do to really develop that cultural competence? Because I think absolutely, that's truly where it starts. Uh, if, if you really want to transform an organization, especially putting a lot of focus on dei, uh, what recommend on, on how to develop that cultural competence?

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Well, if you go to any cultural competence expert, they'll say, well, what you need to do is 40 hours of intentional development work. So we'll talk about one difference another day, another difference another day. And after you do that for 40 hours, folks develop. And that's true. And we did that for a number of years, uh, at Deep Sea. And what I started to see is that there were patterns of key developmental shifts that people made. They developed. And I thought, well, why don't we just teach those key developmental shifts? And, and when we did, we reduced that process from 40 hours down to just nine. So all of that to say that you can go through just like anything, any other skill that you develop. If you want to learn a math ability, you do the math homework. You don't just Guess. Oh gee, what's gonna help me to be better at multiplication? No, you do the multiplication. We know what the homework is. The same is true for cultural competence. We have a process and that process is to start with our self. What are my filters? How do they operate? What are my most, my biggest default filters? How do they create my perceptions? Then what are the filters of others? I need to be able to identify them based on their behaviors. And then finally I move to what's my approach? I can't shift my approach to be more effective until I've done those other two steps first.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that's so good. I think it's, it's really that self assessment of your unconscious bias is so important. Uh, because if you don't evaluate yourself, then you're not going to be part of the change that your organization wants to see it. And even if your organization that does not have any focus on dei, it's up to you truly to be a part of that change that you want to make. And um, it definitely starts with, with the leader to, to really understand. And it takes some time, it took, it took a lot of time for me as well to really understand what my unconscious biases were, uh, and realize that it had a real negative impact in my day to day decision making. And if you don't, if you don't take that time to assess or reflect periodically, I think doing that inner work that you need to, it's uh, it's, it really pays off dividends.

Speaker A: Yeah. And you know, the important thing too is the role that leaders play in that, that leaders a, can't delegate this work. They can't say, okay, you go figure it out, staff folks that report to me, you develop your cultural competence and then things will be fine. Leaders actually have to do that work themselves. And in fact, what we've seen in a number of organizations where that doesn't happen, where leaders say, well, yeah, you know, I'm successful, I'm fine, we're good, just do what you need to do in the lower levels and then, you know, will be fine. What always ends up happening is what I call the emperor has no clothes kind of situation. Because you have the majority of folks that are lower down in the organization then that all of a sudden start to see these things. They start to see the way, um, leaders are speaking. Ah, that is ineffective. That is, shows a lack of cultural competence. And so when leaders delegate and don't do the work themselves, they're actually not setting themselves up for success. And you don't want to see that. And you also can't lead. I mean imagine uh, again these are developmental stages, just like five stages of math. You know, first, second, third, third, fourth, fifth grade math. You don't want someone that has to teach 5th grade math that has only a 3rd grade level of ability.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And that's what we often have in our organizations. When leaders say, yeah, okay, other folks can deal with this.

Speaker B: Mhm. Yeah. And I think communication is key with that in the way we communicate and being very vigilant and in the way we communicate. Because you're right at that. The way we communicate as, as leaders, it shows the level of cultural competence we have. And I know there's so many examples of that. But um, communication is, is key in that.

Speaker A: It's so true. You know, like I said before, every statement, every action, every decision is either biased or unbiased, effective or ineffective. Whichever it is, it's coming from our filters. So if we can't challenge that filter, then we're letting the ineffective, the uh, biased, the even offensive behavior and statements get through. And who wants that as a leader?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that's so true. Um, do you have any like good success stories of like organizations that you work with where you've seen this work and an actual equitable environment?

Speaker A: Absolutely, absolutely. We've seen organizations that um, have just completely turned around their engagement scores. I mean just night and day and I'm sorry, I don't keep that statistic in my head of uh, how much they increase. But it was just amazing to us and to them. And they attributed it all to the cultural competence, um, work that the organization did. Another organization that uh, every year had a huge hiring uh, class that they brought in. And even though the representation in the community for people of color was at about 25%, they couldn't get above hiring 6% year after year after year. And then when they're hiring folks went through our process, they increased that percentage to 36 and they have maintained that year after year. Um, so those are a number. And then even things that you wouldn't think of mergers and acquisitions. We have one organization that the leadership team attributed higher rankings in, in a particular merger and acquisition to the cultural competence work that they were doing. Um, so uh, there's another of uh, organizational budgeting, um, that they completely changed their budgeting process because of the cultural compet work. Um, when you think about the fact that our filters are influencing every single decision and deciding whether they're going to be equitable or not, you realize that this work is everything that we do in organizations.

Speaker B: Mhm. Yeah. That's so good. What um, do you think is the state of DEI within organizations today?

Speaker A: I think there are organizations that uh, are still doing really, uh, hard work, really invested. I um, think there are also. We just saw, and I'm going to state the name because they have done it publicly. Tractor supply company that um, had DEI work and completely stopped it and made all kinds of public announcements about stopping it because they had customers that said we don't like this. Um, and so you do have organizations that are, that are discontinuing the work and you have other organizations that are also getting more shy and trying to do the work, uh, less boldly, let's say. Um, and I, and there are organizations that are listening to legislation, we have legislation in a number of states that limits public agencies from doing DEI work. And what I always say in those states where DEI work is restricted, uh, their workforce can't be taught about these concepts. They can't focus on it. Or where schools, universities aren't able to teach. I always say, well, what you're doing is a really good job of preparing your students and your workforce for the workplace of the 1950s.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: If you want to continue to compete in the environments of the 1950s, go ahead and do that. But the rest of the world is going to come, is going to compete in the workforce, the workplace, the work environments, the of the 2000 and twenties. It's a very different place. So it is a choice.

Speaker B: Yeah. Why do you think there's so much of a resistance to DEI doing DEI work within organizations?

Speaker A: I think there is a fear. That's one thing that we also know. Remember when I said there are five stages of cultural competence? The second one is a very judgmental us, them, good, bad. You know, all of X group are lazy, all of Y group are smart. Um, a lot of the resistance comes from that stage. But the other thing that we know about that stage is that it is fueled by fear. So when we see leaders, whether it is in our organizations or in our communities or in our nation that are dialing up fear, what they are doing also is dialing up that second incredibly ineffective stage of cultural competence, which is very insular and um, very, very limiting to the growth for individuals and for companies and organizations.

Speaker B: Mhm. What would you say to those? And I know DEI is such a buzzword today, right. In, in just overall the workplace. It's talked about in the media and people might be turned off already by this conversation. Uh, what would you say to those that truly don't understand it or are staying far from dei? Why should they embrace it not only for themselves, but maybe if they're leaders or they're working in organizations, why should they embrace it and do some work and incorporate it within their, their work?

Speaker A: Yeah, number one, I would say one of the strongest, um, pillars of DEI is about the work environment. And I would ask them, how much do you want to go to a really icky workplace? How much do you want to go to a workplace where folks are not getting along, where you spend more time in conflict than in working well together? I don't think there's anybody that says, yay, sign me up for that workplace. Right? So if you want a workplace where um, folks work well together, you gotta know how others work, you gotta understand their filters, you gotta understand these concepts. So that environment, if you very, very selfishly want a positive work environment, that's dei. Uh, if you want your organization to have access to the absolute best talent, that's dei. If you yourself want to be your most effective and you don't want to be in control, controlled by and just a puppet to your unconscious, that's dei, that's cultural competence. Um, so if you want to use different acronyms, you want to use different names, you know, we've heard people do that and we've heard people say, okay, we won't use this word, we won't use that word. Fine, that's fine. People will still resist the words, you know, so let's get to the concepts because I think there, there aren't any concepts in the work that folks are going to disagree with.

Speaker B: Mhm. You know, and oftentimes, uh, you know, even when I think of di, it's this big thing, but in reality it's not. But like practically, I know we talked about, uh, leaders, you know, doing some self reflection, doing that inner work. What are other practical, maybe small things that are the listeners can do, uh, to contribute to making your environment that you work in or whatever space that you have influence in to make it an equitable environment. Because I think that's very key is, is uh, I think often DEI is seen as a big thing, but it's really not. It just takes those small changes.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: Gifts on an individual level for you to be that change in your organization or the environment.

Speaker A: Yep, absolutely. In fact, that's one of the, um, significant, uh, areas of premise, if you will, of my book, is that we are each contributing to inequity or equity on a moment by moment basis. So we've got to be able to really, uh, utilize that active conscious process so that we are more often than not contributing to equity. And so we can, each one of us in every moment can. Um, the other thing is in my book I have at the end an equity framework that walks through steps that individuals and organizations can use as they're making decisions, as they are reviewing policies, as they're deciding direction, or a team or an organization. And it really helps to activate that active conscious process through a number of different questions and intentionally makes sure that we're looking at other viewpoints and that we're looking at the reverberations of what our decisions might be. So that's another wonderful tool as well.

Speaker B: Mhm. What is it that you hope that readers that get a copy of this book, uh, really take away and learn from, uh, going through all the writing that you've done, uh, towards this new book?

Speaker A: Yeah, I would hope that one in particular of they are accountable and something they don't need.

Speaker B: One more time.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. That they are accountable and they actually can do something that they don't need to feel helpless, they don't need to feel apathetic because it seems too big. They can actually do something right away.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: Awesome.

Speaker B: Uh, uh, awesome. M. And for those looking for a resource or solution to have DEI or incorporate it in their business or organization or leaders that need help with this, uh, can you kind of outline some of the work that you do as well and maybe some of your, your offerings that you provide?

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. We, I always say, you know, we're full service, uh, equity, inclusion and diversity firm. So pretty much anything from full needs assessments to strategy development, uh, consulting, any kind of training, um, and all kinds of modalities of that training and development. Uh, so really anything that an organization needs, setting up their structures, setting up groups, um, that support their structures, uh, their policies, review of their policies, and on and on and on. Um, basically anything except for compliance. You're looking for someone to figure out, do an investigation. That's not us, but anything else we can do.

Speaker B: Awesome. And for those listening, um, all the links are provided for Sarah's new book and also her company. You can check it out. Um, Sarah, I do have one final question. As we, we look ahead towards the future of dei, um, unconscious bias creating a more equitable, equal, equitable environment. Um, how do you, how do you envision the future of, of DEI efforts evolving as we move on into the future? What, what do you kind of see coming?

Speaker A: Mhm My hope is that more organizations will take a transformational approach versus a transactional approach. We talked about that transactional approach a bit, um, earlier. And more organizations will take that transform. More organizations will realize that they can do something to contribute to equity and they'll really invest in the work, uh, in order to really make a difference. That's really my hope. And so that's what I'm going to say the future holds.

Speaker B: Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Sarah, for, uh, being on the podcast and sharing your thoughts on such an important topic that is so important, especially in our society and in our workforce and uh, creating a more equitable environment, addressing our unconscious bias. I think this is so important for, for leaders to really read this and do that inner work that they need to, to really address their unconscious bias. Because I think that's where it truly starts.

Speaker A: Mhm. Absolutely. Thank you, Cameron for having me. Very much appreciate it. And thanks to the listeners as well.

Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. And again, for those listening, uh, to this episode, all the info to get Sarah's new book and also you can find out more about her company and the work she does. All the links are in the podcast description. Thank you again, Sarah.

Speaker A: You're very welcome. Thank you.

Speaker B: Thank you so much for tuning in to the Executive Leadership podcast. All the links are in the podcast description for you to connect with Sarah Taylor and also get a copy of her book Thinking at the Speed of Bias. If you also want to connect more with the podcast, all the links are in the podcast description on whichever platform you're listening on. If this is your first time tuning in, thank you and uh, feel free to like, share, subscribe, uh, on whichever platform you're listening on and we'll catch you on another brand new episode, uh, next Monday. Thank you and have a great rest of the week.