The Art of Collaboration in Digital CS with Holly Goodliffe | Episode 096

Speaker A: This episode of the Digital CX Podcast is brought to you by, well, me and the Digital CX Masterclass that I've spent the better part of two years building. This extensive course is designed to help fast track you to digital CX mastery. More on this later in the show, but check it out at digitalcustomersuccess.com forward/masterclass. Now, on with the show.

Speaker B: We're in an era of lots of people who have been incredibly good at the human LED CS motion and have tons of experience in that, suddenly getting put in charge of a digital strategy, and they're like, what? I keep hearing this word, digital. What is it? I can try, but, like, I've never thought in terms of campaigns and programs like this. So how do I do this?

Speaker A: Once again, welcome to the Digital Customer Experience Podcast with me, Alex Turkovich. So glad you could join us here today and every week as we explore how digital can help enhance the customer and employee experience. My goal is to share what my guests and I have learned over the years so that you can get the insights that you need to evolve your own digital programs. If you'd like more info, need to get in touch or sign up for the weekly companion newsletter that has additional articles and resources in it. Go to digitalcustomersuccess.com for now, let's get started. Hello, and welcome back to the Digital CX Podcast, the show where we talk about all things digital in cx. So glad to have you back this week. Uh, today I'm joined by an incredible guest, Holly Goodliffe, who is a marketer turned digital CX expert, has had a lot of cool gigs, uh, under her belt. Currently runs a consulting firm focused on digital cs, and so she has seen a lot and is seeing a lot right now. So we talk about quite a few things, philosophical and tangible, uh, related to digital cx. So I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Holly Goodliffe, because I sure did. Holly, I'm so pleased that you've joined us on the show today. Thank you for taking the time.

Speaker B: Oh, uh, thanks for having me, Alex.

Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. I was trying to put together when we first met, and it was. We've basically been kind of chatting since, I don't know, late last year, something like that, on and off. And you have lots of great things to say about digital and just CS and all this kind of fun stuff, and we have a lot of mutuals. So I was like, come on, Holly, let's get on the show.

Speaker B: Come on, let's do this, Alex.

Speaker A: So tell me a little bit about Holly and Holly's journey into CS and what. What that's looked like.

Speaker B: Yeah, Holly's journey actually started as a nonprofit.

Speaker A: Can we stop referring to yourself as Holly?

Speaker B: Okay. I actually started back in the day in the nonprofit world, then went to business. Well, did a lot of marketing for nonprofits, went to business school, pivoted into tech. In tech, I had roles in marketing and in cx. So then when this newfangled thing, digital cs, which it wasn't called that yet, started rising, it was very natural for me to do that at Adobe. I actually did what we now call digital cs, but I was sitting in marketing. We called it retention marketing and got to be the first getting things started for Adobe's enterprise business, starting with, uh, Adobe analytics of how do we help customers succeed using digital channels. Then I got to go, uh, to Heap and start Heap's digital CS function from scratch as well.

Speaker A: Well, you are our third Heap veteran on this show, by the way.

Speaker B: We have a very strong, beautiful connection with you, Alex.

Speaker A: Yes, indeed.

Speaker B: Yeah. I'm honored to be the third, third Heapster on here. So then from Heap, went to Content Square and got to start digital CS from scratch at Content Square. And then, um, after doing it all three times in three different ways and seeing all the patterns and the pitfalls and the joys and the pains, decided to out on my own as a consultant and help tons of companies. I think this is a really exciting time to be obviously working in digital, being able to help so many companies who are now fully convinced that they want to do it and just are like, how do I do it yesterday? Help me figure this out. So that's really fun for me to get to help tons of different clients with. How do they do that?

Speaker A: Yeah. The why isn't really a question anymore. It is the how. Right. And for many, it's still this proverbial black box that we're all talking about. Like, you either have it or you don't. No. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, I mean, it's a great time, I think, to be advising companies on their digital CX strategy. It is shrouded in mystery in a lot of ways. And also, you know, there's so much ambiguity when it comes to all the different software that's out there and methods. Um, I'm sure you found this too, in your work in digital. Every organization is a unique, special butterfly in terms of its customers, how they like to be communicated with, and all that fun stuff.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Complexity of the product.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Who's already doing what at the company? Whose toes are you going to step on? Who do you need to be collaborating with? Absolutely. A little bit different at each place.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's a huge point actually. And so we're going to dig right into that point because I love it. That whole like stepping on people's toes situation.

Speaker B: Uh-huh.

Speaker A: Because, you know, Digital Bytes nature has its hand in a lot of different areas. Right. We ideally work very closely with product. We ideally work very closely with marketing, with renewals, with sales. And so it becomes this whole thing of guarding and protecting the customer experience while at the same time not quote unquote, stepping on toes or uh, because there is some overlap, especially with, you know, I mean, with marketing, it's.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: In digital, we're taking a lot of the classic time tested digital marketing strategies and just applying them to the customer journey. What's your experience been like in your W2 work life and in your consulting life of navigating those challenges?

Speaker B: Yeah. This is super crucial. And I tell everybody who I'm advising now, you're not alone. Everybody's having this conversation right, right now with marketing, with product, with other teams with whom we collaborate. In my W2 life, I experienced it always, like I said to you, I sat in marketing at Adobe and I needed to collaborate with tons of the team that sat in CS and in Product. And then at ah, both Heap and Content Square, I sat in cs. But I have my marketing roots so I love my marketers. I love collaborating with my marketers. And the advice I always give is, what's tricky about digital CS is that it's not something new. I'm not starting something from scratch. I'm taking all these existing functions and I'm pulling them together in a way that is cohesive for the customer. So that one plus one equals a hundred. Right. That's the goal. And so frankly, it doesn't matter which team does certain things. Like if the product team wants to own the In App guide tool, great. The important thing is just like the strategy all needs to come together. So in all of my W2 jobs, like, I tried to have my team play the role of, hey, we want to raise our hand and volunteer to be the ones who will make the cohesive plan for how this customer experience will come together. We're happy to be the ones in charge of QA ing all the experiences and having like a shared send calendar to make sure this all comes together. I do not recommend going in and being like, hand over all the tools to us.

Speaker A: Today.

Speaker B: Right. It doesn't work, but like, we'd love to. And uh, if somebody else wants to take the lead on the strategy, I'm also frankly fine with that. But, but like, let's get a strategy in place. Let's have some sort of review process of what's going out to the customers to make sure it all fits together. And then what I find naturally happens over time is that if my team can add so much value to that strategy and to the review process, the other teams naturally just want to collaborate with us more, trust us more, trust our judgment, trust that we're making what they're putting out there even better. Right. So I've come into companies where the product, product managers have been like, oh no, I'm the one in charge of product adoption, not you. I'm the one KPI for that. And I'm like, cool. I'm also KPI'd on that. Like, let me support you, let me help you. You know, lots of times digital CS is a new function, so this is new to them, but like, okay, let me kind of gently support anywhere I can. And then over time they're glad that I'm also KPI'd on it. Right. Because I'm helping lift it. But if you go in and are just like, yo, I'm the expert, get out of the way, of course it's not going to work. But I'd say in every case a natural evolution happens over about six months where we just trust each other more and where more control comes to this digital CS team because people see it makes sense for there to be a central strategy.

Speaker A: Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. I love so many things you just, you just mentioned. But ultimately, like, somebody recently asked me they were looking at hiring a digital leader and the question to me was, what are the top three or four things that you would want to put on the wreck, you know, to hire this role for? And I always go to number one, being just a collaborator. I mean, yeah, the fact that you have digital marketing experience is great. The fact that you know these tools is great. The fact that you've run campaigns and done those kinds of things, all great, I love it. But if you can't collaborate with somebody, if you can't work with other leaders and build strategy together and just be a, like a solid, good human being, I don't care.

Speaker B: Yeah. Amen. And being able to have that empathy for where they're coming from. I mean, like, I came from marketing, I get it. And I get folks, uh, being like, we're in charge of email, not you. We've always been in charge of email. And just being like, I get it, I get that you've always been in charge of this. But listen, like, you're KPI'd on leads and closing deals and I'm KPI'd on retention. So how do we. There's, uh, a million different ways to split it. But like, generally you have your things that you're better at and I things that I'm better at. And frankly, most marketing teams, unless they're like a really awesomely established lifecycle marketing team, in which case, cool, take it. But most don't want to be like, on the hook for the intricacies of renewals and ongoing grr. So. Makes sense.

Speaker A: It makes sense. The other thing that I really love advising, especially new leaders on that are trying to establish those collaborations is something that you hit on that we often don't do. Like, many people don't do this, which is to go to their peers and the executives in the other areas of the business and ask what their primary goals are for the year, for the quarter, what they're KPI'd on, like, what goals you're driving. And then that gives you the incentive that you can leverage to help build that strategy together. It's like, great. Your KPI'd on this is how my program is gonna help you do that and vice versa. I think we, for some reason as humans, don't do that enough. I don't really know why that is.

Speaker B: It is weird. It's a simple thing to just be like, what are your KPIs? Here are my KPIs. Let's make sure we're lifting both and let's make sure we're both doing what we need to do. I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker A: Ah, yeah. I mean, it's like sales, right? You uncover the need and you try to meet that need with your product. But, you know, that's why a lot of us aren't in sales, I guess. We'll be right back with this episode. I gotta go pay some bills. As mentioned at the beginning of the show, I'm self sponsoring this episode and I wanted to talk to you briefly about the Digital CX masterclass. Now, I started this podcast as a way of unifying a lot of information about digital cs because I just wasn't finding it out there. And one of the recurring questions that I get is where can I go to take a course on digital cs? Now there are some organizations that have a few Courses here and there, uh, they're not massively extensive. They don't have a bunch of templates and resources associated with them. And so I wanted to change that. I've spent the last couple of years putting together a pretty extensive course structure that spans six parts, a little over 50 modules, uh, a lot of video based content. But it also includes things like practical templates, uh, upwards of 150 different templates that you get access to. There's a community where you can chat with other digital CX leaders and myself. There's also access to the chatbot that I've developed that is trained on the content of the show and the masterclass and a bunch of other stuff that I have developed. So if you're a new digital CX leader and you're trying to fast track your way on board, or you're a leader that wants to upskill their team, or you're an individual contributor that's just trying to get way better at Digital, go to digitalcustomersuccess.com masterclass There is a self paced version there and I am doing live cohort based sessions about once a quarter. So go check Those out@digitalcustomersuccess.com Masterclass now let's get back to this episode.

Speaker B: Yeah, plus one to that. But it's like it's not even just like marketing and product. It's like we also need to be best friends with all the ops teams, especially marketing ops for tooling. And we also need to be best friends with the data team. Like whenever I talk to a client and they're like I don't have access to the data I need, I'm like, well your problem is that you're not yet best friends with the head of data. Go become best friends attached at the hip. Be really concerned about help helping each other. Get your job done. Get that data leader understanding why this is crucial to the revenue of the business. And then let's talk about next step.

Speaker A: That's right, it's like step number one, get your data house in order. So with your clients that you're advising, what kind of projects are you working on? Are there some commonalities that you're seeing? Folks? I would imagine there's a good bit of artificial intelligence and leveraging that in there, but what kind of things are you working on?

Speaker B: Yeah, I'd say it falls into two main buckets. I have some customer or uh, some clients where the story is we know we need digital, we know we need to, we want to leverage digital to increase our CSM to account ratio, we need to do more with less. Holly, help us do that by tomorrow. And we have no idea what that looks like. Right. So help us get started. I. A lot of we're in an era of lots of people who have been incredibly good at the human LED CS motion and have tons of experience in that, suddenly getting put in charge of a digital strategy, and they're like, what? I keep hearing this word digital. What is it? Right. Like, I can try, but, like, I've never thought in terms of campaigns and programs like this. So how do I do this? So that's definitely one bucket of just like, what's the lay of the land at the company? How do we get this started? What are the right stakeholders to work with? What's the tooling? What's the data situation? And then, as you said before, the other bucket is, hey, we're already pretty good at this. We've been doing it for a while. And how do we really take this to the next level, including AI? How do we really think differently? And that's really exciting. It's frankly amazing how big the spectrum is right now in the industry from like, we hardly know the word digital to, like, we're doing incredible things with AI. So for me, it's, like, really fun to get to play at both of those extremes.

Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. And the tooling is getting better and better to where bridging those gaps isn't as daunting as it once was, even a year ago or two years ago.

Speaker B: People who are just getting started now, no problem. You've learned from everybody else's mistakes in the last year. Now we all know a little more what we're doing in this emerging field, right?

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. One of the goals of this show has always been to help demystify it a little bit to where it doesn't seem like this big, scary thing where you either have it or you don't is a thing of the past. Like, digital is its own entity. And in a way, as we've all been doing digital for a really long, long time, I would argue keeping notes in a CRM is digital. You know, it's all about how you use the tooling around you to make your humans more efficient, whether it's your human team members or whether it's your human customers.

Speaker B: Yeah. Amen. Yeah. All those great humans that we do.

Speaker A: Yeah. Are there. This is one question I always love asking, which is like, are there digital things out there that either you've helped build or you've seen in the wild that are really cool. That has gotten you thinking about unique stuff over the past few months.

Speaker B: Yeah, I love that. Well, as far as what's out there in the wild, especially in the B2C space, which I know you love too, is like just anything. Like a Spotify raft. That's showing me my usage, showing me how I got value from this tool. I love it and I love that I'm seeing more and more companies in the enterprise space space. Imitate that and do it. And maybe even calling it the pre QBR email, or maybe for your lowest tier, it is kind of the digital QBR of just like, here's what we're seeing, let's do this and let's have a meeting if we need it. But maybe this is all you need is just to see how this is going.

Speaker A: So have you found a good way of doing that yet? Because there was a thread in the DCS Connect community not long ago.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: Where quite a few people were spitballing about certain ways of accomplishing it. I think Matic came up quite a bit in that conversation. I forget what other kind of solutions were in there. Have you come across a slick way of doing that? Hey, I want to have a brief chat with you about this show. Did you know that roughly 60% of listeners aren't actually subscribed to the show on whatever platform they're listening to it on now? As you know, algorithms, love, likes, follows, subscribes, comments, all of that kind of stuff. So if you get value out of the content, you listen regularly. Um, and you want to help others to discover the content as well, please go ahead and follow the show. Leave a comment, leave a review, anything that you want to do there, uh, really helps us to grow organically as a show. And while you're at it, go sign up for the companion newsletter that goes out every week@digitalcustomersuccess.com. now back to the show.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I don't even think, honestly, it's a matter of like, you need a certain solution. It's like you just need the APIs,

Speaker A: you need the data.

Speaker B: It's like the rest of digital where it's like building a campaign, you know, that takes like five minutes. Getting all the data you need for the campaign.

Speaker A: That takes the tough part.

Speaker B: Weeks. And being best friends with the data.

Speaker A: Yeah. And then turning that data into the insights that actually mean something. Yeah, uh, that's the tough part.

Speaker B: I mean, I will say some tools are better than others for sure. You know, Traditional marketing tools like Marketo and HubSpot tend to struggle more with API ing that data in whereas like an Iterable or, you know, customer IO or much better at it and course O matic just makes it even easier. So yeah, I mean, whatever works for your company. As far as how you get that API in, I just really suggest no starting, simply not worrying about it being like super beautiful. Um, just make it super basic and kind of pilot it and try it. When we did it at heap, we used SendGrid and it was just like pretty simple at first. See how customers react to it. It was of course like one of the most opened, most clicked on things because everybody loves seeing their own data and then grow it from there.

Speaker A: Starting simple is the key with any of that stuff. As soon as you like over design your first version, you're kind of like grabbing at straws. We are doing some interesting things now at my gig with Vitally, where hashtag show sponsor, we're pulling in a bunch of product data and product events via the API, which is super cool. And the system allows you to then identify and create like success metrics for your customers where you're tracking the same thing over time for all the same customers. Uh, I guess my point is that related to your earlier point, it almost doesn't matter anymore what tooling you're using because a lot of tools, especially the modern ones that are API based, that are birthed in APIs, you know, you can kind of pull that stuff if you're not in sas, then I don't know what the answer is. But

Speaker B: yeah, no need to tackle that today, Alex.

Speaker A: No, uh, that's another topic.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, another. You asked what, what have I seen others do or my own teams do? One. One other thing I'll shamelessly plug that my own teams have done. Alex, that I want to bring it up on your show because I'm frankly shocked at how often I go talk to clients and they aren't doing the. And I feel like it's not rocket science. So we talk about Omnichannel campaigns, right? We talk about using email in app ah and community together. But I'm shocked at how for how many companies Omnichannel simply means like we're putting the same one to many workshop ad in all three of those channels. And I'm like, okay, that's like, yeah, Kindergarten. Like what I mean, it's not that hard.

Speaker A: They're not wrong. It's um, Omni Channel and Kindergarten is

Speaker B: a great place to start. But I just really think there's incredible power. Especially if the KPI you're trying to lift is active usage.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: To use email as use email and in app together just like all the time, just seamlessly, just they are connected in everything. And so every email, in my opinion, unless it's like a rare thought leadership thing that you want to have linked to an article, but generally I want every CTA to point into the product ui. I want to get them in there using it and I want to teach them in the product. If I'm designing a new user nurturer and it has 10 touch points and I'm trying to get them to use features A, B, C, D, E because it's going to get them value in two minutes flat, then I say in my email, this is going to make your job easier in two minutes by serving up the data or the report you need or whatever. Click here and we'll show you how to do it in two minutes, literally five clicks. And then actually have a permalink open in your product UI, walking them through. And it shouldn't be 20 steps, it should be three or four, five maximum. And then you can link to more information if you want. But like get them that immediate value. And I will say it takes some um, getting like especially the product team on board of because the product team will be like, no, you need. Or maybe the CSMs will be like, you got to show them this super ultra complex, awesome use case on their first time because that's what rocks. And I'm like, nope, I need the most vanilla simple. I need immediate gratification. I need.

Speaker A: That's going to get them to churn real quick.

Speaker B: I need it to be so quick. I need immediately for them to see this value and be like, oh, I just made my first chart or whatever. And then they have the confidence that they'll come back the second time or the third time. But like whenever I would be queuing my team's like, flows that they were building, I was always like, how can you get this earlier?

Speaker A: Pull it back. I need it.

Speaker B: I need it in step one, I need it in step two.

Speaker A: And it's that knowledge. It's that nesting of knowledge too.

Speaker B: Ah.

Speaker A: You know, you start with a very simple flow and once you see that they've completed that flow or, or you see in the product flags that something has been completed, then it's a nurture situation where you know it's not one flow to kill them all. It's 10 baby steps to get you to tackle that hard Thing that will get you to complexity, but it's like there's so many things that come together there. It's uh, a combination of short attention span adult learning theory where you have to kind of repeat stuff a lot because in each one of those follow on campaigns you kind of have to do a little bit of refresher probably.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, Amen. And part of that alignment is I'm always asking clients like, do you have a happy path at least for the first 10 things you want a new customer to be doing. And uh, an answer I get a lot is, uh, well, our product can do anything. Choose your own adventure. Our uh, product is so powerful. And I'm like, no, we need internal alignment on what is the prescriptive path? Right. Because exactly what you're saying, it's just like, how do I make this simple and manageable? It's really hard for a digital team to come in and sometimes I think they're expected to come in and just magically build these like nurtures when the company hasn't even decided that's right or aligned on what's the happy path. So key factor there.

Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. That's so interesting. The other thing that I've seen a lot, I don't know if you have the same experience, but if I've gone in and audited like existing things, it's amazing how many of them like don't work. And I mean that in the most basic way. Like you click the button and it doesn't do it. And so as a user you get the email or you get the pop up and you click the button, it doesn't do anything and you're like, okay, well, not going to do that. You know, it's like, test your stuff,

Speaker B: test your stuff, test your stuff. And it's a huge, it's huge work we need to do as digital CS leaders to really evangelize and advocate for our teams that 20% of their time needs to be reserved for optimizing QA. Like it's not like you just put something out there in the wild and it's good forever.

Speaker A: Like go back to it every six months and make sure it's still relevant and fresh and works. Permalinks aren't permanent.

Speaker B: Yeah, I love that. Alex, very wise advice.

Speaker A: I need to make a nerdy T shirt with that, uh, phrase on it.

Speaker B: Very catchy.

Speaker A: Nobody would buy it.

Speaker B: Oh, I'm ready.

Speaker A: You're the only one. So a lot of times, so speaking of like project managers, digital program managers, that kind of stuff. A lot of times people will ask me how to structure those teams from a workflow perspective and I always go back to mirror what product and engineering do you know, sprint planning and, uh, two week dev sprints and all that kind of stuff. I know that you, after doing a bit of LinkedIn stalking, you are a certified Scrum master.

Speaker B: Oh my goodness, yes.

Speaker A: And I'm curious if that has informed how you think about implementing digital and the process that goes behind actually doing the stuff.

Speaker B: That is a great question. I think you bring up a really crucial topic because I think every digital team out there has way more options of great things they can be working on than they actually have time for. So how do you kind of structure that and make it so that the projects happen? So that I think is kind of the first part of it, of what kind of the Scrum mindset helps with is the ruthless prioritization, the concept of a backup log, the concept of we only have so much time or so many points. And so I always had a very open and ruthless prioritization process heading into a quarter. That's what I have found is a really helpful time to get on the same page with all stakeholders and to really warn them. And it takes a couple quarters to get to this point, but to start training them and warning them. If you come to me with an emergency project mid quarter, like, nope, there's nothing. We are not brain surgeons. There's no true emergency in digital cs. We should be able to plan a quarter ahead, what the business most needs from us and where we should be prioritizing our time. Not your rando pet project.

Speaker A: That's super smart.

Speaker B: Um, that I think is a very scrummy mindset and I'll actually say to people when they'll come with ideas that we can't fit into the quarter. Right. The concept of like, yeah, that might be really great for next quarter. This quarter is closed. As far as like, do I really think about it being like two week sprints? Absolutely. With my teams we need to have that transparency with our partners that we work with of like a Monday.com or a jira or something of like, here's where it's all coming together.

Speaker A: Organization and communication of what you're doing and all that.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I haven't actually structured my team. I know lots of people have, but I've never structured my team as like, we're specifically in two week sprints partly because all of my team members have always been working on about five to 10 projects at once. That don't necessarily like they all have different time horizons, but having that all structured out in one place for all of our stakeholders to see and and is has been really crucial. And then as the quarter goes on, we're constantly building our quarter report out deck as we go of uh, like okay, this one's done, like make that slide, this one's done. So yeah, the quarter has kind of for me been similar to the sprint in the scrum world.

Speaker A: I think that makes sense because a lot of the projects you work on in digital are those longer tail things. One interesting thing that I found is in my last gig a lot of what we did involved interfacing with the salesforce, you know, operations team and they operated in two week sprints. Right. We didn't necessarily. To your point, we didn't necessarily operate in two week sprints, but the fact that we had to do so much interdependent with them kind of forced us to live and have a toe in both where we were dependent on this team to do XYZ and so we had to do sprints planning on our prioritized things to make sure that things got put in place in time for us to meet the overall objective. But at the same time we were doing more macro instead of micro sprint planning then too. So yeah.

Speaker B: Ah, I love it. That's such a good example of what we were saying before about collabing with other teams like really just being like, oh, you like to work on a two week sprint, great.

Speaker A: You meet them where they're at.

Speaker B: That structure.

Speaker A: That's right. Yeah, that's cool. One thing I always love to get an insight on is what you're paying attention to as a digital professional and in CS or out even outside of the business where like what do you occupy your conscious with in terms of content when uh, when you're not working?

Speaker B: My conscience. My consciousness.

Speaker A: My consciousness.

Speaker B: This podcast for sure. I also really love the daily standup. I'd say those are my two main ones. Lots of great newsletters and thought leadership out there in our field, which I really appreciate consuming all of that and then outside of work. But it actually is strangely related to work. I'm currently reading the David McCullough's history of the Wright Brothers. Cool. So interesting to be reading about just innovation and bravery and doing the thing everybody thought was crazy in a completely different time. Right. Like it's just the parallels to our day are really fascinating.

Speaker A: That's interesting. I mean the Wright brothers were fascinating because now in the history textbooks you kind of Gloss over the fact that they were bicycle repair folks and stuff and then. And then they built an airplane. It's like, yeah, of course they were. But then if you really put yourself in that timeframe, there were so many people, different groups and nationalities going after this powered flight thing. And then these two folks from Ohio.

Speaker B: Right, Good old Ohio. Well, and like the whole thing of like several people have died trying and there was like this whole rhetoric of anybody who tries is a crazy quack and. Yeah, I mean, just a lot of courage to go for it.

Speaker A: Mhm. Yeah. That's cool. That's cool. I love that. Anybody you want to give shout outs to?

Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. All my teams who I've worked with are the best and have made all of this possible. I'll especially call out Christy Hollingshead, who was my boss at Heap and she was in charge of all the different things that needed to come together for digital and so taught me tons about all we're talking about of how to bring this all together. And then I just want to give shout outs to the amazing people in our field who are just like bringing us together and making communities. I love DCS Connect. Thank you. Marie Lunny. Like, amazing. And I love like being a part of CS Angels. Like so grateful to Gemma for starting that. So grateful.

Speaker A: It's a cool community.

Speaker B: Yeah. So grateful to Jan for all the amazing CX exchange stuff out there. It's just so great to not. There are so many tricky pitfalls in our world and I just really appreciate people who are bringing us together to learn from each other.

Speaker A: Yeah, you're not alone. Like, uh, yeah, you know, if you're in CS and you're feeling alone, the good news is that there's a ton of us out there that are willing and able to share and talk. And I think I've never been part of a community that's more open book. Uh, everybody's just sharing all the time, which is so, so, so, so cool. So. Yeah, yeah, I hear you on that. Cool. Well, look, I've thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. Maybe we need to do a part two at some point. But like, where can people talk about

Speaker B: where it's all going in the future?

Speaker A: That's in the year 2000. Where can people find you, engage with you, hang out with you, learn about your business, all that stuff.

Speaker B: Stuff. Please come hang out with me on LinkedIn. Connect with me. Please come visit my website. Holly goodlift.com, please. If you're in San Francisco, CS Events, hopefully I'll see you in person or at, uh, other ones as I travel around.

Speaker A: Awesome. That's great. Well, thanks again for joining. It was awesome. And uh, keep fighting the good digital fight.

Speaker B: You too, Alex. Thank you.

Speaker A: Thank you for joining me for this episode of the Digital CX podcast. If you like what we're doing, consider, uh, leaving us a review on your podcast platform of choice. If you're watching on YouTube, leave a comment down below. It really helps us to grow and provide value to a broader audience. You can view the digital customer success definition word map and get more information about the show and some of the other things that we're doing@digitalcustomersuccess.com this episode was edited by Lifetime Value Media, uh, a media production company founded by our good mutual friend Dylan Young. Lifetime Value aims to serve the content, video, audio production needs of the CS and post sale community. They're offering services at a steep discount for a limited time. So navigate to lifetimevaluemedia.com, go have a chat with Dylan and and make sure you mention the Digital CX podcast sent you. I'm Alex Djurkovich. Thanks so much for listening. We'll talk to you next week. As mentioned throughout this episode, go check out the Digital CX Masterclass at digitalcustomersuccess.com masterclass. I look forward to seeing you in the classroom.