Sarah Mortiboys - Empowering Youth Through Sport - Bristol Sport Foundation

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: So welcome to the latest episode of the Conscious Finance podcast. Um, really lucky to be joined today by Sarah Mortiboys, who is the CEO of the Bristol Sport Foundation. Welcome.

Speaker A: Thank you very much for having me. It's good to have you on.

Speaker B: Yeah. So you've been in post now how

Speaker A: long I've been in post? Three months.

Speaker B: Three months, yeah. So not long?

Speaker A: Not long.

Speaker B: Long, but not long, no.

Speaker A: So I wonder whether I can still ask someone the other day how long I can be the new girl for. And he was like, at least a year. I was like, brilliant, excellent.

Speaker B: So you can get away with all sorts.

Speaker A: Exactly, exactly.

Speaker B: Definitely. So what's your story then Sarah? It'd be good to have a little whistle stop of what led you to where you are now.

Speaker A: Yeah, sure. So, um, I've always been heavily values driven. Um, and the work that, that I've always done has been centered around children and young people and improving their lives but really focusing in, on children, young people from areas of inequality. So you know, those kids that just don't have the same chances, um, and giving them as much opportunity and investing heavily in their futures. So I started um, in youth work, um, and yeah in Birmingham, um, and as a volunteer. But then that kind of became a fully, kind of paid role.

Speaker B: From Birmingham?

Speaker A: No, I'm not actually. I'm Cornish.

Speaker B: Where did you grow up?

Speaker A: So in St Agnes in Cornwall. M and so in a quite rural community, um, and quite isolated actually. People think of Cornwall as, you know, this beautiful, uh, wonderful place. Which it absolutely is.

Speaker B: More beautiful than Birmingham perhaps?

Speaker A: Well, I mean, I don't know. I think it depends on your objective.

Speaker B: I can say that because I was born in Birmingham but um.

Speaker A: So yes, I lived on the coast for a while, um, um, but quite isolated in terms of childhood and parents got divorced when I was quite young. Um, and you know my, my father moved up country, um, so quite a long way away. So spent most of my time on the M5 going back and forth and back and forth. So um, and you know, because of that was um, you know, did live in that, that isolated world and I think what I learned from that was that actually um, the world of sport, um, and physical activity certainly provided me with loads of opportunities as a kid. Um, and I learned from that and that was almost built in a little bit into my d as a, as an individual. And that's why, you know, I've gone through my whole career using that as a vehicle to engage, engage people.

Speaker B: Where do you think that came from? That sort of Innate desire.

Speaker A: I, um, think because sport has a way of engaging people in a way that little else can. Um, and I think it provides opportunity. It provides you, um, the opportunity to build skills. Resilience, communication, being part of something. I was talking to somebody, um, earlier in the week who was kind of trying to almost explain, you know, the answer to the same question. And it's being part of something. Um, and I think sport gives you the opportunity to do that. Whether you participate in it, whether you're a fan, whether you're a coach, whether you're a teacher, whether you volunteer. There's a route that you can probably go down that gives you that sense of purpose and that sense of being. And that's really important to me. Um, and certainly, you know, behind drives me behind my own value set, which I think is. It's certainly, you know, the reason why I do what I do.

Speaker B: Were you quite sporty growing up then?

Speaker A: Not really, no. Not really. I did a bit of gymnastics at school and I was quite good at that, mainly because I had a sense of no fear.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: And I'd be the one that would run at the box and see what happened. Um, so. But not, not particularly, no. Um, but I, I could see how it could help others.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: Um, and I think, you know, I'm always kind of of the view that, you know, m. My purpose in life is a life of purpose and that's why I get up in the morning. If I can just change and help somebody change their own life for a better reason, that gives them a better, um, opportunity, a better chance in life. And that's a good thing, I think.

Speaker B: I guess it's interesting to understand what, what gave you that living a life of purpose? Because, uh, you said parents got divorced at an early age. Um. How old are you?

Speaker A: I was eight.

Speaker B: Eight. My parents divorced at six. So similar, I understand. And my mum raised me as a single mom. Um, do you feel like you sort of got your values from your parents or your upbringings?

Speaker A: I think. I don't know. That's a good question. I think that there are periods in your life, like moments in your life when, um, it's almost like a. It's not pre designed necessarily, but it helps form who you are. So my parents were divorced at 8. I had a bit of a fractious upbringing because of that, which meant that, you know, I wanted to find sort of my way of being my tribe, I suppose. And that's where sport came in. Um, and then I got. As I got older, I could See the impact that that was making, um, both on my own life, but the life of others, which kind of stuck, steered, reinforces it. Yeah, a little bit. And sort of steered a bit of a squiggly career and a squiggly way of working. Um, and then I've had a couple of other moments, I guess. Um, so when I was 32, I, um, was diagnosed with breast cancer.

Speaker B: Oh, my God.

Speaker A: And, um, sorry to drop that as a bomb. Um, but, um. And that was a great moment in time because it sounds horrendous. Right. But it really defines your thinking and helps you crystallize your, you know, your. Your way of being and what your next stage will be. And I often describe my life as, you know, life before and life after. And I almost changed my view and my perception on the world overnight. Um, and that helped me formulate the next phase of what Sarah would be, both in terms of a personal perspective but also work.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's a quite a defining moment and statement as well, because I think, you know, by saying that was great time of my life. Not many people would say that when they've had cancer.

Speaker A: Oh. But I think, I mean, I had a, you know, I had a positive, um, outcome. And I've been cancer free for quite a long time now. I'm in my. I would still say my mid-40s, but only just. Um, and, um, but it also gave me loads of opportunity. You know, I met some amazing people. Got to take part in the London marathon five times to raise cash. Wow.

Speaker B: Five.

Speaker A: I know, it's ridiculous.

Speaker B: Amazing.

Speaker A: Don't run anymore. Um, but got to carry the Olympic torch and all of those kinds of things because of that experience. So, you know, as I got older, I would. And when I talk about it, I would never take it back. Really tricky time. But I would never take it back because I think those opportunities formulate your journey and your trajectory and the way that, you know, your life pans out for you. And I see those challenges not as that, but as opportunities.

Speaker B: Yeah, I love that mindset. I'm really similar. Uh, I've had some life challenges. Nothing that compares to that. But every time something bad happens, whether it's in business or personal life, so lean into it and look at it as an opportunity to learn or grow or. That discomfort is important, isn't it? Um, in general. But I think what you've described there is the growth mindset, really. It's looking at everything as an opportunity. Even cancer. You know, that's something which a lot a Lot of people, um, it's easy to really focus on the negatives, and it must have been a horrendous thing to go through. And, um, for a lot of people, whether it's something like that or other life events or work, um, they can get stuck in that rut and that sort of endless cycle of negativity which. Which is really difficult for some people to get out of. And you seem to do it quite naturally.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah, but it's hard. You know, I. You know, if you were to have asked me earlier in the week, how is your week going? Yeah, not so great.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: You know, a couple of challenging things that were happening. Um, but, you know, I get to Friday afternoon and be sat with you guys and think, this is such a privilege. Um, and, um. Um, you know, I think that it's not about necessarily, um, saying that everything is perfect all of the time at all, but it is always the mindset of this is a challenge. Yes, that. That's true. But it's also an opportunity for us to do things differently or think differently. Um, and as long as you. I think for me, as long as I keep revisiting both in my own mind by myself, but also I surround myself with people that are really positive. I think your. Your, um, group of people that you. You naturally gravitate to, you know, those people that you ring up and say, hey, what do you. Or go to for advice and guidance. I have a really good network, and I've built that over quite a long time. And those people are, um, both challenged me, but also are my cheerleaders and champions. And I think that's really important because I do think when you step into a leadership position, whether it's a CEO, an MD or whatever you do in any form of leadership, and we're all leaders in some form or another. You know, when people ask me, what do you do? I look after an organization. Um, yeah, I'm the CEO. That's what they call me. But I look after them and enable them to go out and do great things. Um, and I think, um. But it can be a very lonely place. Um, and I'm okay with that, actually, because I'm quite comfortable in myself. Um, but I do still need to go and ask questions and ask for advice and guidance. And as I've got older, um, and I'm much more comfortable with that. I'm much more comfortable with saying, I don't quite know how to deal with that, but I know someone that does.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, so that's really important to me to help, help me build that scaffolding around.

Speaker B: I think that's a really good tip because I think with, um, you know, a lot, a lot of advice you see out there when it comes to mindset and how to build resilience or confidence to, um, either lean into those discomfort or uncomfortable situations, but also then bounce back and see the positives in things. A lot of the advice is, you know, just do it and you know, the first time is going to be hard and then over time it becomes muscle memory and it'll get easier and easier, um, because you've done it before. Um, and it's the same with your viewpoint and your mindset. If you start to shift that mindset and see things in a glass half full way more often, then it will, it will happen more often. It's hard to sort of force yourself into that mindset without the people around you. And I think that's something that we maybe haven't touched on yet on the podcast. And I think that's a really good point because I read something a while back, Corinth is quite a famous philosopher or something, said that you are, you know, the sum of the five people that you spend your most time with.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, and I looked at that and I was like, okay, so I'm a mix of, uh, a fiery Welsh woman, uh, an impatient six year old and an anxious springer spaniel. That's interesting.

Speaker A: That's a great combination.

Speaker B: But then I look it up to my team and I think, you know, that's, um, so true. I think it's the positivity breeds positivity and I think that you can simplify it in terms of there are almost two people, types of people in life. There are drains and there are radiators. Hm.

Speaker A: I was just thinking that.

Speaker B: Yeah, we go.

Speaker A: Couldn't quite get the analogy sorted in my head. So I'm glad that you said it.

Speaker B: Yeah. So, you know, drains will take from you, radiators will fire you up. Um, and it's scientifically proven as well. I listened to a podcast the other day, um, and it talked about how cortisol, which is the stress hormone, um, can travel from one human to another. Um, so it's new information. It's fascinating. I'll send you the link.

Speaker A: It's fascinating.

Speaker B: I think it was Diary of a CEO and there was this scientist on there, psychologist. She was amazing. And, um, yeah, it can be passed on so you can inherit stress from those around you, similar to how the forces at nature that we don't even See, like, when women work together, their menstrual cycles can sink. Same with, um, stress. Which is fascinating.

Speaker A: That is fascinating. But you can kind of almost see that being true. I mean, I've worked in organisations that are highly stressful, predominantly education in schools. And, um. And you. You can see how that. How that translation would happen. You know, if you're having a particularly stressed group of children and you're trying to teach them, it usually. Unless you quash that and work with them, it usually boils over. So it's really. It's really interesting.

Speaker B: Yeah. And it's so important in leadership. It's just that. And we were talking about this in the last episode with Richard, that calmness is so important. Um, because if you're anxious and stressed visually, then so will the team be. And it's just like how, you know, kids follow their parents. It's the same sort of, um, uh, analogy, really. But, um. Yeah, I love talking about that sort of stuff. But so you. So you're so correct, though, in terms of the people that you surround yourself with. And I think it's important for everybody to look at, right? Who. Who am I spending the most time with on a. On a daily basis? And are they. Are they benefiting me or are they taking away from me and. Sounds a bit brutal. Obviously, you can't just cut people out of your life because they're negative, but it's like, seek out those that are the uppers.

Speaker A: I think so. And I also think the one thing I would say as well, to add to that, um, and M. This is definitely something that I've learned in recent times, is that it doesn't matter if those people criticize you in terms of positive criticism and feedback. And I actually really enjoy that.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, I've had a number of times in my career where that's been done really badly. Um, and that has really affected me in terms of my own confidence and my own kind of imposter syndrome that I think probably everybody has. Um, but certainly finding, um, people around you, and my partner's definitely one of them, who's very skilled. Skilled at saying, yeah, Sarah, that's really great, but have you thought about this, this, this and this? I'm like, oh, I have not. That's really interesting. So the. The way in which you do that and learning from each other to give that developmental feedback and developmental thinking, I think is really important because if you just surround yourself with people that tell you you're doing a great job all the time, sometimes that's not Terribly helpful, um, because it doesn't necessarily help you grow as an individual. You know, it probably gives you a bit of a sense of. Of, oh, yeah, I'm just right all the time. Sure I am. That's not necessarily true.

Speaker B: And, um, I'm similar. I seek out that sort of feedback because as a, as a leader, you know, sometimes it can be lonely and you don't. You don't have necessarily that person above you telling you, you maybe think about that differently or, you know, so it's got to come from the team or from your family or from your friends, whoever it might be. And I think a lot of that happens, um, when there is psychological safety. M. And, you know, creating an environment where people feel safe to speak up and tell you how it is, and then they know that you won't just shoot them down when they do.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And I think also giving people, um, you know, I talk about this a little bit in my team and try and inject it in terms of behavior, giving people a space to breathe. So not everybody works in the same way. You know, not everybody is going to follow your style of leadership. And I think it's response. It's a responsible thing as a, as a leader to be able to differentiate. You know, when, when I was teaching, you know, I would differentiate in my lesson. I'd understand that, you know, one child wouldn't learn in the same way that another one would. And why should they? Because they're human beings. So it's the same within a leadership context in that if I am talking openly in a meeting about, I don't know, future budgets or website design or what we're actually going to do as an organization, then some people will need to absorb that, take that away and think about it, whereas others will go, yeah, I want to do this, this and this, and rattle off a whole load of ideas. So, um, having the skill to navigate that. I think the biggest piece of advice I've ever had, um, around how to approach coming into an organization but also leading it, is just be patient. You know, there are things, no, when you have to do things quickly, um, and usually coming into a charitable organization, that's probably got to do with money and investment, if I'm honest. So go, yeah, we're not going to spend that on that. We're going to spend it somewhere else and be quite clear about that and do it sharp and quick. But other things, you can take longer and you might find. And I'm very much like this in the, um, because I'm So purpose, values, driven. I want it all now. Like, come on, come on. Why are we still having conversations about children that are going to school where they've had the front of their shoes cut out because their parents can't afford to buy school shoes that fit? Why are we still doing that in 2024? That's ridiculous. M so my sense of urgency to rectify that challenge is quite profound. But I know that that sort of thing takes time. So having patience to bring everyone on the bus with you and then knowing when to press the accelerator and perhaps not everybody is on the bus, but that's okay, you can leave them behind is quite a skill, um, which I'm still probably refining.

Speaker B: Yeah, well it's leadership, something you constantly got to work on. Yeah, isn't it?

Speaker A: Yeah, definitely.

Speaker B: Um, so going back to your story then, we got off a tangent there, which I loved. We got as far as volunteering in Birmingham.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. That was quite a long time ago considering I'm 46. Um, so yes, I did that for a while and I guess I describe my career in two blocks. So block in sport, um, sport and leisure development and then the block in education and now actually the third block which is back in sport again. So, um, I went um, into local authority, um, in that lovely leafy West Oxfordshire. I remember it very well. Lovely. Um, working on leisure centres and school based provision and that kind of thing. Um, within a local authority setting in a time where there was lots of money. Um, so it was really quite nice, um, built some leisure centers, did that kind of thing. Um, and. But then um, went on ah, to do what most people do in sport, which is work for sport England and absolutely loved it for a period of time. Um, at the time when we had regional officers, so I was based in Crew Kern, um, got around a lot, I know in deepest darkest Somerset, but also started to then do some work on policy in London and was quite interested in policy, you know, changing the way in which we thought about working with children and young people. Um, but what I realized at that time was that I was still quite young, so I was in my kind of mid 20s, mid to late 20s and didn't really know what I was talking about. So I'd be quite animated and yes, of course we can make that million pound investment. Sounds great. Um, but not really having much intelligence behind that or insight. Um, so, um, I left sport in that context and went into education, um, and trained to be a PE teacher. Did that for a period of time. Um, head of pe, assistant head you know, went into the wonderful world of Ofsted and all that kind of work, um, and enjoyed that and got really clear about how education and the school environment is so important to those formative years in your own life. Um, but then gradually started to leave, as most teaching professionals do. Um, so, um, came to London in 2012 and set up, uh, an organisation to work across Lambeth, Southwark, Lewisham and Greenwich to support primary school development, um, through the lens of sport, but also around leadership and how schools work collaboratively together. Um, and did that for about five or six years. Um, and then, um, started to exit kind of education as a block, um, and went to work with Comic Relief, um, and supporting them with a coalition of charities, which is where I got my kind of like, um, love for collaboration and working with other people. Um, so did that for a period of time, um, and then did a couple of national roles and more recently with, was with Premiership rugby, which is where I got to understand the importance of commercial sport and the relationship that community development and commerciality have. So the more work that you do around commerciality and the understanding that really good community development has an intrinsic link there, you know, so. And the responsibility that organizations have to improve their local communities. And the way that I describe that now, ah, at Bristol sport is that we provide the stardust, you know, this uniqueness about the 3 multi sport brand that we have at Ashton Gate. Um, and that enables us really to shine a light on how can we use, um, basketball, rugby and football to ignite passion in a generation of children and young people in some of the most deprived parts of the country. How can we use that as a tool to help them make positive choices about their future? And that's kind of what has led me to bsf.

Speaker B: That's amazing. Yeah. It's really interesting to hear your story and thought process around your. I, uh, think you described it as squiggly, squiggly, squiggly career.

Speaker A: And not too sure there was too much thought.

Speaker B: Well, I don't know, it seems like it's been sort of planned. Was it planned? Because I think if you look at it right, you've got grown up and you saw at a young age the benefit of sport and how that can help the younger generations and then felt, right, I don't really understand the environment that they're in properly. So I'm going to go into education, really understand that world and how then I can influence that, um, uh, industry or sector and then back into sport again and the charity space and now where you are, it's almost perfect. You seem like the perfect candidate for BSF almost, in terms of, like. Because you understand the both sides so

Speaker A: well, I always think that, um. And there's a, you know, there's a phrase that, um, I've heard use and I now use, which is, you know, what's your next 10 words? So it's really easy to make a statement, right, that everyone agrees with. You know, children and young people should have access to PE in school, sport. Right, yeah. What's your next 10 words? So what are you going to do about that? How are you going to develop it? What. And then what are the 10 words after that? And I, um. I think that what I've done, um, and I don't know whether it was through design. I honestly, I'm quite chaotic, so I don't think it was. But certainly what, um, what I have done with is now that I can give those next 10 words and the next 10 words after, and if I don't necessarily know what they look like in the context of the environment that we're in, I'm happy enough to go and ask the people that do M. And that's where the collaboration piece comes in. I create the conditions for success as much as I possibly can and give the platform and elevation for others to, um, to provide the outcomes and answers to the challenges that we face. That's where I see, you know, my sweet spot. Um, you know, I'm good at that. Um, I'm not good at necessarily thinking about what they could be at all, because I, you know, other people do that way better than I do, but I'm very good at spotting that. Right, let's move that there and let's move that there and then see how we go. Um, and, and that for me, because I've had that experience in my past, I, you know, I can answer those next 10 words, I can stimulate that, and that's the way that I view it.

Speaker B: I think there's also quite a theme of humility there in that you're not afraid to show that you don't have the answer and that you will go and ask others. And I think that's probably testament to how you've got to where you are now, because that's the best way to learn, really. And to show you a bit of vulnerability with your team is a good way to get them to rally behind you as well.

Speaker A: And also, I think, um, the way that I look at our team now, now we have quite a young team, um, and there's quite a lot of talent there, you know and I would say that being being their CEO, but um, there is a lot of talent there and part of my job um, is to enable that, to develop and you know, enable them to grow both within um, BASF and Bristol sport, but also prepare them to go off and do other things. Um, and if I can provide one or two opportunities and really understand actually what motivates them and drives them, then I also can help them go off and have wonderful careers, um, and do wonderful things and that gives me huge amounts of joy.

Speaker B: M and how have you um, found the journey getting to CEO in um, you know, the sports industry as a woman, you know, in especially Premiership rugby, you know, male dominated environment, um, getting to where you are now. What's that been like?

Speaker A: That's been pretty hard. I'll be honest. It's been pretty hard. I um, think there was a time reasonably, um, recently that I thought I would lead sport.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: I um, think that sport um, is inherently incredibly competitive and actually, and I often describe it in this way, and this is probably a bit contentious, a colleague says, apologies, you probably won't agree with me, but I often think sport now is in two blocks.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: I guess there's the block of this is the way that we've always done it and this is the way always will be done. And if you don't agree with that then you don't work in our sector.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: M. That's quite strong. But um, but that's kind of my perception. And then there's a block here which is the block that I sit in, which is um, using sport as a vehicle for social good and encouraging people to participate in sport for all of the social benefits that we have. And whether that's from um, having the opportunity to go to Paris in the Olympics and Paralympics all the way through to running a basketball club in St. Paul's you know, that for me is the power of sport. Um, and um, and you've got, now got an emerging um, group of people and I say no, I don't say that that is small, it's quite big. Who understand that concept and buy into national strategy and national ways of working and policy and fund funding and that direction, which is the direction that we're being taken in quite rightly, who want to be a part of that. But I think when you come up against this group here who are the, no, this is the way we've always done it, then that can be hard and it can be a blocker and the one thing that I have learned, um, probably as quite a stark lesson is just don't give up. Just don't give up because somebody somewhere will recognize that way of thinking and that talent and will give you the opportunity somewhere. Um, and, and that's the way that I viewed it. So that journey to the position I've got now is, has been a challenging one for sure.

Speaker B: So is that the advice that you would give to other aspiring female leaders, um, who. I mean, I guess you've experienced it in quite an extreme where, you know, it is very male dominated, but there are other industries and sectors that are also male dominated.

Speaker A: Oh, I don't think it's at sport alone.

Speaker B: No. Um, would you say it is just purely that steel grit and determination to just keep going or are there any other, um, pearls of wisdom you'd give to?

Speaker A: Um, I think, yeah, going back to the. Surrounding yourself with great people, um, giving yourself breathing space and time, um, building your own sense of, of resilience if you, you can, and also knowing that, that it's okay sometimes to fail because you're probably going to. Um, and I always kind of view, you know, like I say, I'm in my, you know, mid to late 40s apparently. Um, and um, part of my responsibility as a female leader is actually to ask those pushy questions, um, and also be a bit strong with that because part of my responsibility is preparing the ground for those that come after me. Um, and I think that um, certainly that is the mentality that I'm starting to approach my leadership with now is that, yes, it is about the opportunity that I have provided for myself for sure. And I'm going to embrace that and take that and do everything that I can within that, my moment in time. But also part of that is preparing this ground for the next generation to come through. Um, and I think sport, um, and I was at conference earlier in the week, um, where we were talking very strongly about women's sport. Um, and the fact that the audience base is different, the way in which we consume sport is different, the way in which we um, view the world is different. And that's okay. And actually what you need to learn to engage us is to work with us, not against us, and try and shoehorn us into, well, this is how we do it in men's sports. So therefore you have to learn. No, actually we don't.

Speaker B: Yeah. So how do you, how do you win over uh, um, uh, that male dominated environment where you've got stakeholders who maybe are uh, used to working In a very set way. How do you overcome that?

Speaker A: Um, I think that's a really good question and actually a really difficult one to answer. I think that certainly the way that I've tried to do that is because, again, purpose driven. So if I'm having a difficult conversation about, um, how you engage children and young people in sport, what I will probably try and do is really know my audience.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: So I will read about you, I will prepare myself or have a think about, like, what is, what is this person's mindset? How can I really. And that's quite, that's quite hard work. You know, converting that type of conversation into action is quite hard work.

Speaker B: That's a lot, a lot of EQ involved in it.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: To be able to really read someone

Speaker A: and sometimes you get it right and sometimes you get it wrong. The other piece of advice that I also learned from a very, very good headteacher when I was in London, which was, um, kill them with kindness.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: You know, so in the fact that we all want children and young people's lives to be better. Right. Well, yeah, if you don't, then maybe that's a bit weird. So we all want that to be good. So. But these are the things that, this is what the evidence tells us and the insight tells us about where we need to focus our work. And, um, because we want to create that great world for everybody. And I think if you've got, if you're with somebody that's got children or with somebody that knows somebody that has or. So that's when you get into that mindset of bringing them on that journey with you. Um, and I, I've done quite a lot of work in that about how, how to convince, how to almost sell. You know, I'm, I'm in the world of charity, but I, you know, I'm a saleswoman. I'm sending you a dream that you're buying into.

Speaker B: Yeah, I love that. Uh, and it seems that I guess that's probably why you've ended up in the roles that you have. Because you mentioned before that your, your specialism is almost change management, transformation coming in, making real change and improvement and turning a business or organization around for the better. Um, and that comes with, I guess, to be able to do that and to win the hearts and minds of the team. Because change isn't easy.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: So to be able to do that, that does take a lot of empathy, compassion, um, emotional intelligence to do it right. Because there is a right and wrong way to do change. And we've all seen the horror stories of when it's not done well. But, um, for everyone listening, I think that, you know, there's always change agendas, whether it's big scale or small scale. What would you say is the best way to sort of navigate change, um, good or bad, with your team?

Speaker A: Oh, wow. Um, I think for me, um, there's definitely, um, a knowing when to listen and when to speak, um, and hearing what is said to you. You know, I've come into an organization that's been in existence for quite a long time. Um, you know, it's quite early in its charitable development, but it's been around, you know, for seven, eight years. So it's, it's. It's. And it's been. It's built itself, it's built a brand, it's built a way of working. Um, and that's really great. That is, um. And what the team have achieved is brilliant. Um, but there's always a. Um. The way that sort of. I approach that change, that leadership journey is that there are different leaders for different times. And the way that you've just described me in terms of change management, in terms of organizational transformation, that type of work, that's. That's the leader that I am for this period of time. Um, and I'm. I'm very clear. And I learned this actually when I was looking after the PE network in London in that I definitely have a shelf life. So. And I now know what that is. So when I get to the stage where everything is going good and it's singing, it's wonderful, and I then start fiddling. I start trying to find a problem, a challenge, or I create one myself that I can then answer. Um, which is not a particularly good way of working. But I've learned that about myself. So. So, um, I'm a leader for a certain period of time and I will help the organization, um, create what they feel they want to create to answer some of the challenges that we face in the city. Um, and get them to a place where that's really singing and really good. And I'm really clear with the team on that. And I'm really honest in my approach. Um, and one of the things that I said when I stood up in front of them on my first day was that I will always be honest with you. I will always tell you where we are within reason, for sure, because there's some things you can't. But, um. But I will always do that. And I do a weekly update, um, and either whether it's in person or it's on a, on video, which I hate doing. But it's. Whether it's on a video, um, I will always say this is what I was doing last week and this is what I'm doing this week. And these are the reasons why. Um, and it helps them know, well, what is she doing behind the scenes? Because we're delivering all this work in schools, but we haven't seen her for like three days. What's she doing? So it's that transparency so they understand why we're making the change that we're making and they understand the thinking behind that. And I will set them little tasks. So this morning we need to redo our website because it's not where we would like it to be. Tell me what you want guys, what do you need? And I'll go away in the background and make some sense of that. Um, and put it all together and then go, okay, then here. Um, and that's where I see my role is to ask the questions. They know better than me, but I know better how to do it like m, how to make it sing and how to make it function.

Speaker B: That's great. Love that. Um, so going on to Bristol Sport foundation, what is the mission and vision of that organization?

Speaker A: Wow. So that's a really. Also a really good question. So as an organization, you know, we want to be able to, um, help children and young people fall in love with sport, you know, and make great choices about the types of sports sport that they experience both in school and in the community. Um, and m find something that is appropriate for them on the base level for sure. So the work that the team do around forever sport, when they go into schools and they're delivering sport and physical activity and building relationships with children and young people, building their confidence, their resilience, their ability to work as a team is really important and that's really important at primary school level because a child will make pretty much most of their decisions about who they're going to be by the time they're seven. Um, so because they're little sponges, you know, they soak it up. Um, and that's really important to us. Our work within basketball is also incredibly important to us. We are, you know, the carers of the Bristol Flyers brand, um, and the carers of the community work that we do within that space. And we know that basketball is the fastest growing potter's paper occupation based sport in the country. It has a way of reaching children and young people in a way that other sport can't. And we know that we've got some challenging um, parts of the city where we need to work harder and deeper with children and young people to help them improve their lives. And whether that's keeping them away from crime, whether that's helping their employability skills, whether that's building their sense of community cohesion, we know that basketball can do that and that is an absolute front and center of what our strategy is, will be going forward. But we also know um, and this speaks to the point that I was talking around collaboration that actually we've got something quite unique at Bristol Sport and that is a multi sport brand that sits across the city in terms of Ashton Gate and we love Bristol Rovers as well. Just to say, um, but um, and there's something really unique about that proposition and there's something really unique about the combined storytelling of the impact that we have in rugby be football and basketball and how we utilize that and build it. So I see Bristol Sport becoming very much an enabling, a supporting organization that helps those brands and ultimately the work that happens in the community behind them unlock their storytelling, unlock their advocacy, unlock the investment that can sit across all um, and there's something really unique about that and it's one of the reasons that you know, I came in to be, be the new CEO. Ah, so I see the organization really sitting in the background just moving the pieces on the chessboard to create the best possible um, environment and conditions to help help drive that success.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's amazing. I mean one of the reasons why I chose Bristol uh, Sport foundation as one of our charity partners at.

Speaker A: Thank you.

Speaker B: Um, was because of that um, grassroots um, focus and how you know, if you're going to solve any problem you start with the kids quite often. Um, and I think it was amazing to come, come and see you know, some of the, the work that you do and see the smiles on the kids faces when they're playing sport and how inclusive it is. Because it's not like when I was a kid and you know, I was constantly on the B team or getting picked last because I'm lanky and quite um, uh, malcoordinated most of the time. But it was even like I uh, loved how you had a huge tournament and the kids that aren't usually picked were on the team and it just enabled all of those kids to feel part of something bigger. And the after school clubs, you know, gets them out of, out of trouble but also gives the parents that couldn't usually afford um, after school care for their kids to go and have this amazing coaching from Bristol sport coaches and get into sport and that healthy, um, happy life, um, mentality. But I think what really resonated with me, what a lot of people don't think about is then the long term societal benefit that it has when it comes to. Okay, so if we get kids early.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: Into living active lives, then it can have a profound impact even on the taxpayer. You know, can you talk us through that?

Speaker A: Because that's 100%. I think I'm a big fan of prevention is better than cure. And you know, we know that we've got an aging population. We know that we've got extreme challenges in the nhs. We know that we've got an epidemic of childhood obesity. Um, and that's not just because of COVID Covid was a blindfold. These things have always existed. You know, I was having conversations with, um, some young people From Bristol about 2 months ago ago when I first started and they were describing the challenges in terms of their participation. I was hearing that 20 years ago. So. And it actually makes me really sad that we still have that. I don't feel safe walking home from school. I don't want to participate because there's actually nowhere for me to go. We still have those problems, um, within society. Um, and I think the earlier that we provide those policies, experiences and the earlier that, that becomes part of your own DNA and you understand it and you can articulate it. I mean, I don't really participate in sport anymore, but I know that I love walking my dog, I love being in the fresh air. Um, and that for me is my physical activity and I enjoy it. Um, so, and that's built into who I am. Um, and I think, you know, if we're in that position where we're building a healthier society. Society both in terms of your own physicality, but also, you know, we're at the end of mental Health awareness week, um, and understanding that actually spending time being physically active does improve your, your mental wellness, then that can only be a good thing. And then when you tie that into bigger questions around social value and actually what if you make the investment, what the return on that investment is, is huge, you know, and I don't, I don't know the complete stats, I don't. But it, it is. I know that they exist and that's a logical, a logical way of thinking. Um, and I think too long we've been in a position where we're okay, yeah, we'll just give you a pill for that or we'll Just, you know, we'll, we'll. We'll just give you medical intervention and treatment for that. Whereas actually if you look at the principles around social prescribing, that is absolutely about that prevention model and building a world that enables you as an individual and um, as a family, as a community to make the right choices for you so that you don't need that intervention which ultimately answers your taxpayer challenge.

Speaker B: Yeah. And if you get, you know, if you get them into sport early and they continue that, whether, uh, it's walking the dog or going on a run or going to the gym playing football, um, they're less likely to develop chronic disease and, and illnesses when they're older, which then, you know, will save the taxpayer millions in terms of health care cost. And I think there's an amazing stat, and I wish I could remember it, but I think it was looking at the, the Bristol um, spend in terms of, you know, what, what. Where the money goes. A huge proportion on health care, but um, less than 1% to, uh, developing kids in sport and sport and that sort of health and active focus. So yeah, it's quite, uh, like you say, it's prevention rather than cure. Cure of the prevention.

Speaker A: It seems to make quite logical sense to me. You know, we read in the papers that um, um, community leisure facilities are closing, swimming pools are closing. You know, I find that very difficult to process because we surely must understand that if you move more then you're going to be more healthy. There are other things, factors that sit around that, the choices that you make in diet and all that kind of thing. But if you move more, you're going to be healthier. We know that. Um, so to enable that to happen and to actually invest disproportionately, um, and you know, we're very, I'm very clear and we're, you know, unashameable about that. As an organization. We, we will invest harder in um, in the areas of deep inequality in Bristol because actually it takes that to ensure that we're all, we all have a sense of social justice and we're all on a sense of, of having a level playing field. Um, and I think if we do that and we're very clear about that, um, then we get into a position where we are creating a, you know, more rounded and better society. Seems to make logical sense.

Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. Um, I love just your mindset in general. I think it's very positive, definite growth, mindset, focus and you know, leaning into discomfort and seeing the bad as a positive and uh, learning opportunity. I think, um, yeah, that whole sort of positive outlook is quite inspiring. How do you, what's your view on, um, progress in general when it comes to your team, your organization? Because you, you, you seem to constantly be in that mindset of progress. How do you inspire that into your team?

Speaker A: Oh, that is also a good question. I think a lot of that comes from purpose, so understanding and being very clear about the purpose of the organization. Um, and certainly sometimes what I've seen happen is that, um, you. Because we. And this is not necessarily just us, but, um. But what I've seen across my experience is that, you know, you put a group of good people in a room, they want to do good stuff, right. So they will come up with loads of suggestions. I want to do this one, do that, and that's great. And that is really great. But you've got to narrow that down because actually, um, it's a little bit organizationally about knowing your place in the world. You know, there are lots of organizations and charities that do lots of brilliancies stuff, but you've got to find your bit, um, and then understand how that all of that joins up together. So what I do with the, with the team is I'm, um, going. Absolutely. That's a great idea. Let's think about that in the context, excuse me, in the context of what we want to achieve. And how does that link back to our purpose? Every time you come up with an idea, where does that link to our purpose? If you can get that line of sight, great, cool. Then you think about, you know, how am I going to pay for it? What's it going to look like? How am I going to do it? How do we measure impact, all of that kind of stuff. Stuff. But if it helps you achieve your organizational purpose, then it's generally a, uh. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's good. Let's try it. If it's moving outside of that and you've got this mission creep, narrow the purpose, um, because otherwise you're everything to everyone and nothing to no one.

Speaker B: Yeah, love that. What was that analogy used about climbing a mountain?

Speaker A: Oh, is the view worth the climb?

Speaker B: Is the view worth the climb? Yeah.

Speaker A: So if you ever, I absolutely, um, ask myself that question, um, quite a lot, um, which is, is the view worth a climb? Is it? And if the answer is no, don't do it. If the answer is yeah, keep going. If the answer is not sure because there's clouds, keep going. Because they'll clear.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So, yeah. Is the view worth the climb?

Speaker B: That's a really nice, simple way of putting it. Yeah, love that. Uh, well, thank you so much, Sarah, for coming on. It's been an absolute pleasure.

Speaker A: Uh, yeah, thank you for having me. I've really enjoyed it.

Speaker B: It's been great. Really inspiring stuff in there, I think, for. For the listeners and, um, yeah, for me as well. So thank you.

Speaker A: Thank you.

Speaker B: Been great.

Speaker A: No problem.

Speaker B: So thanks for listening to the Conscious Finance podcast. Um, it's really appreciated, and if you can help us increase our impact and inspire others, um, it'd be much appreciated. All we ask is just subscribe to the podcast. Um, give us a like or drop us us a comment. Um, it really does help get the word out there and expand our reach and hopefully inspire others to drive their impact further. Thank you.