Episode 24: Accidental HR, Intentional Impact

Chase: Foreign. Perfect. All right, so thank you for tuning in to this week's episode of Overall hr. Uh, I could tell you what episode it is, but I don't recall what episode this is. So just take a look at whatever streaming device you're using, and it should tell you the episode number. I'm super pumped, um, for today's conversation, because we have Jeremy Hilton, and I could introduce Jeremy, but who better to introduce Jeremy than him himself? So take it away, Jeremy.

Jeremy Helton: All right, good. Uh, afternoon. Uh, so my name is Jeremy Helton. I have been working in HR a little over six years at this point. Um, I've worked in a variety of disciplines. Retail, qsr, um, and I've spent a little over the last four years in manufacturing. Um, I am. I happen to, uh, come across chase on TikTok and absolutely fell in love with her content. I feel like her, um, ideology behind human resources and the way the function should be, uh, in her words, lines up just with. With mine. Uh, and then, uh, she just so happens to be a Kentucky native like myself. So, uh, really, um, excited to be on the podcast today and, um, you know, talk about. Talk about my experience.

Chase: Well, we're thrilled to have you. And, you know, TikTok is such a strange thing. Um, it was funny because I had someone call me yesterday that was seeking some sort of HR advice. And it's weird, like, starting conversations from TikTok as if it's this whole separate, you know, alternative universe. In a way, it is.

Jeremy Helton: Right.

Chase: Um, but thank you for the kind words. And, you know, for me, as an HR professional, um, it's refreshing to meet people like yourself that shares in that same ideology, um, and I'm sure are a similar ideology. And we'll get into that in our conversation, um, and what that looks like. So. But, you know, just for starters, Jeremy, tell us, how did you originally end up in hr? Was it a choice, a calling, or an accident?

Jeremy Helton: Complete and total accident. So in college, uh, I was more of a pre med student. I thought that, you know, I'd want to work in the medical field. Um, I even worked as a pharmacy technician while. While I was in school. Um, and then towards the end, kind of decided that's not what I wanted to do anymore. Uh, so I branched out and, um, you know, kind of was exploring other opportunities. And, uh, I won't say the company name, but I worked as an assistant store manager at one of the nation's largest retailers. Um, and I was there for about a year and a half and moved into a similar role with a competitor. Uh, their structure was completely different. So, um, each of their assistant managers were responsible for either hr, merchandising or operations. Um, you didn't get a choice of, uh, what discipline you were going to get, and that could even change from store to store if you moved around. Um, but they essentially, throughout your training, you know, they. They take a look at, um, you know, kind of the needs of the store you're going to end up in, and, um, kind of your. Your personality assessment and some variety of other different things. So that's. That's exactly. Exactly how I ended up in it. And it was, um, still, uh, blended with operations to a certain extent, but it was focused on that HR piece.

Chase: Jeremy, why did I not realize that our. Pat. Did you realize that our professional paths were so similar?

Jeremy Helton: I didn't know that. I knew.

Chase: I didn't know. I have to ask. Did you want to go into. Did you want to be a pharmacist?

Jeremy Helton: I did. I was a pharmacy technician for five years.

Chase: I'm going to respect you, um, because you said you weren't going to name the retailer. But while you were talking, I went to your LinkedIn and, um, we worked. I was the same. I wanted to be a pharmacist, and we worked at the same, uh, retail chain that is no longer in existence. Okay. Um, so that's. That. That's interesting. Maybe that's why we. We clicked. I. I think pharmacy customer service prepares you for HR more than you realize.

Jeremy Helton: Absolutely. Yeah.

Chase: Um, no one knows angry, like angry whenever their Casper says no.

Jeremy Helton: Yeah.

Chase: Um, and for those of you that aren't familiar, we're not talking about the friendly ghost.

Jeremy Helton: No, we're not.

Chase: So with that, um, in your experience, what version of HR did you think that you were stepping into the moment that you made that transition and thought, hey, I want to go into this. What did you conceptually think it was?

Jeremy Helton: Uh, so when I was still in the store role, it was handed to me, basically. Um, and so it was more of a learning experience. I thought I was going to be handling, um, you know, just like, you know, an investigation here and there or, um, you know, that it would still be, you know, more store focus. But it was. It was pretty in depth. I mean, I had to, you know, it was a unionized company. I had to learn about, you know, the CBA and all the, you know, all the different ins and outs of that. Um, so I spent a lot of time, really, on that piece and, you know, making sure that, you know, that we're you know, following everything to a tee or you know, if, you know, grievance does arise. I mean your, your whole thing, uh, can be thrown out the window, especially if it's a pretty serious disciplinary action, um, or things like that. So, um, it became more than what I thought it was going to be, but it was, it was a really good foundational um, experience kind of to what led me to where I am now.

Chase: So had you had, just out of curiosity, um, had you had any exposure to unions in workplaces, negotiation CBAs before?

Jeremy Helton: No, I was new. We got maybe two weeks of like specific training on that and that was it. I mean of course there were, you know, resources at the corporate level and things like that or that if you had a question. But um, you know, to be thrown into that, I mean it really. More training should have been involved. I feel like.

Chase: Well, and absolutely. And to your point, you know, more training, 100%. But there is no amount of training from my, from my perspective about said experience. I don't have any experience firsthand with operating HR in a workplace that has an organized union and it's difficult to find anymore, honestly. And get, you know, you get this argument that they don't really exist. They, meaning unions don't really exist anymore, which isn't really the case. So um, you know, it's, it is interesting as I'm gonna, I'm gonna go off script here. Um, and for those of you that heard me say off scripts, I give ah, participants some questions, but that doesn't always mean the questions are followed. Um, a lot of feedback that I get on TikTok of all places is that when there is a grievance or when there's an issue at work that you should just go speak to the union. But the reality is that not everyone has a union. So what sort of feedback do you have to that person that is locked in that idea of I'll just go to a union rep, Right. Well, what if there is no union rep?

Jeremy Helton: I think that they need to understand, um, like they're going to have to change their perception of hr. Um, it all goes back to, you know, you hear the comments all the time. Oh, they just work for the company. Well, yeah, we do. But you know, that also means what's in the best interest for the people. So that, that is, I feel like who they should start with. Um, let's say that they've gone to their manager and their manager kind of brushes them off, but they feel they have a valid concern or something that they need to talk about, um, you know, that's, that's what their HR representatives for, um, those types of things.

Chase: 100%. Well, let me ask this. I want to confirm your current, um, work experience or your current role. Is there a union present?

Jeremy Helton: There is not.

Chase: Okay. I didn't think so, but didn't want to make the assumption. Talk to me a little bit about. Because you have those different real life, um, experiences and perspectives. Is having a union present in a workplace, is it, does it make the experience better for employees?

Jeremy Helton: In my own personal experience, I don't think that it does. I think that it does create a divide between management and employees. And um, you know, when that happens, the whole dynamic changes. Um, you know that, you know, prior to working at that company, when I worked at the competitor, which was the first job, you know, they were extremely successful in their union avoidance strategy. I mean, thousands of stores across the country, um, never had to, um. I mean, I think maybe three of them are unionized. So early on I learned that framework of having those different avoidance strategies of if you think your employees are. You catch wind that they're going to do that. Of course, you know, you can't interfere with them legally, but you can try to, um, do different things. To try to, you know, try to mitigate. Yeah, to try to stop that from them wanting to do that.

Chase: Absolutely. Well, and I'll never forget, um, you know, my undergrad degree was in hr. I pivoted, Um, I started out chemistry and pivoted. It was a miracle I graduated on time. But we still. This class no longer exists as part of the degree program. But the professor come in and it was labor relations. And he said, um, unions. Do you know why unions exist? And there were lots of answers, you know, different perspectives. And he said, all of you are wrong. And he put it on the screen, spelled it out, and he said, I'm not going to say it verbatim because I like to keep it at least PG rated. He said it's because management effed up. And, um, that has always stuck with me. You know, that's been 10 years ago and it's still, um, I'm telling that story to you now. But it's fascinating to me though, and I'm curious to hear your perspective on this, that the amount of people collectively that believe unions make the employee experience better, but it almost conditions you to have to prepare for having basic conversation. And that's not helpful over time either, right?

Jeremy Helton: Um, yeah, definitely. I mean, um, you know, things are. Things were so structured in a way that it didn't. It always felt, you know, extremely formal. You know, you just be more human with, um, you know, your employees and, you know, kind of have those genuine conversations, you know, around, you know, problems that may exist or, you know, giving them feedback on, you know, their productivity and how they can advance to the next level. I mean, there's rules around all of that. So, you know, like you said, you know, when, you know, management failing, that's exactly what it is. Because if you're in an organization that, uh, you know, the management team is nurturing the workforce and taking care of people, they're not going to need. They're not going to need anyone.

Chase: Absolutely, absolutely. So sorry to sort of digress in that direction of unions, but it is, despite it not being seen as much, it still is a popular topic for people. Um, but going back to you and your role, how different, um, is your current role now from where you started? In the context of how HR is

Jeremy Helton: practiced, it's extremely different. Um, so, you know, I'm in a smaller company now. Um, so there's not a, you know, there's not a corporate office somewhere that says, um, you know, this is the process you need to follow for this. Not that it would be, you know, a bad thing to have that because, you know, a lot of those resources are really great. Um, but, you know, I also had an HR shared service center, you know, at that first job. So it was like if you hired someone, you just scanned the packet off and somebody did all the, you know, admin work for you and it was just there. You know, here, here I get to do everything. So, um, you know, from start to finish and you know, I'm the only one, um, for, for the company too. So, um, you know, I can kind of create things and do things kind of, kind of my own way. As long as that it, you know, aligns with, with what the company wants too.

Chase: I love that. I love that. Um, and it's very similar to my first leadership role and it's where not only can you create it, but you also own it. And there's a different type of pride that comes with that. So, um, I'm m jealous, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. I'm jealous of you. So transitioning into sort of HR philosophy, uh, I think it's important for our listeners to understand what you think. So what do you believe HR is actually responsible for?

Jeremy Helton: You know, I think a lot about culture, um, in this question. Um, you know, some, some companies think, you know, HR is the sole person responsible for, for culture in a company. And I tend to disagree with that because I feel like HR can lay out the roadmap and kind of guide that and help support that just like we do in a lot of other functions. But the management team needs to take ownership for that as well. Um, so, you know, HR can create that roadmap and really show what, how different initiatives can, can guide success. Um, and then, you know, we can be used as that, you know, thought partner of, um, you know, how to create, you know, positive, uh, workplace and environment and, you know, all of those other things. Whether it's, um, you know, increasing your retention and reducing turnover and, you know, all of that all ties back to that.

Chase: No, absolutely, absolutely. You know, you said something there and I took a note. You may have inspired a TikTok for me here. Um, but, uh, I've been in similar situations to where it feels and it's unreasonable, but there's this expectation that higher ups, people in leadership, believe that HR owns culture, and that's impossible. That's impossible for HR to be the primary point of influence for culture. Uh, so my next question for you kind of segues into when it comes to leadership and not people, but when leadership says to HR professionals that HR is there to protect the company, what does that mean? And I'm going to ask you to answer that in two different ways. When they say that, what do they mean? But from an HR professional, what do they actually mean? What do you want to educate them on what they mean when they say that?

Jeremy Helton: So I feel like when they say that, they're thinking of it, uh, as an overall risk management perspective. But when we hear that, you know, it's, um. So does that mean that, you know, I'm gonna have to do your dirty work for you? Um, you know, are you gonna, you know, as a leader, make a decision and not own it and then expect me or, you know, another HR professional to, you know, whether it's delivering bad news that, uh, you know, weren't a part of, you know, we weren't a part of in the first place. Um, you know, so that's kind of my first thought when I hear that. But I know that sometimes that can be said so innocently that it's like they're not meaning it that way. But some leaders truly do absolutely well,

Chase: and how many times, and this is a difficult question, but maybe you can provide an example, um, to put you on the spot here again, but do you think that leaders are just so ignorant about HR Um, that they say things, to use your term innocently, and it's not. They don't even know what they're saying.

Jeremy Helton: Yeah, I mean, I think, I think they definitely do. I think that there's a lack of misunderstanding about what exactly it is that we do because, you know, you know, they may see the, you know, when you think of the employee life cycle, the beginning and the end. Right. You're hiring, firing, they're not seeing all of that. What happens in between that, it's kind of like the behind the scenes of all of that. And I think something that gives me a strength with, you know, what I do now as being a former operations leader, I can say like, hey, I get where you're coming from. You're also gonna have to see my perspective when we're gonna have to meet in the middle somewhere.

Chase: Absolutely, absolutely. Um, where do you think when it comes to hr, um, where do you think hr, when done right, has the most power within an organization?

Jeremy Helton: I think you can, to obtain that power is you have to learn how to speak the language of a business. So I always talk about speaking revenue. You know, if you're talking to someone high level in an organization, um, and it's not that you have to automatically think that they just care about, you know, adult, you know, the bottom line, but when you can intelligently speak to the financials or what's going on in the business and the network, not just the people function, you tend to earn that respect a little quicker. And then you can show them that you're competent in ways that are not just your own function. You know, it kind of, um, once you have that, you have more leverage, I feel like.

Chase: Absolutely. And credibility, to your point. Um, and I think a lot of HR professionals sell themselves and the profession short when they speak just through a lens of policy or through a perspective of lawsuits whenever, um, you know, some businesses would, they don't care if they get sued. They'd rather cut the settlement check to get rid of the poor performer.

Jeremy Helton: Yeah, that's.

Chase: That is the reality.

Jeremy Helton: Or like those businesses that, uh, you know, they'll try to include, um, maybe somebody that's not performing as well, or maybe it's somebody they simply don't like and you know, a riff that they're already getting rid of, you know, other people. So then that perception is, you know, that their position is just eliminated. It's not, you know, that there's not a true other reason behind that.

Chase: Right. And, um, you know, you touch on something that a lot of people Miss and to make sure that I'm communicating in the appropriate context here, I'll start with a story briefly. Someone that I was speaking to, um, a few days ago. They were, they had a legitimate concern, but they kept referencing feedback that their doctor was providing them about their, um, duty or like their fitness rather, um, their ability to work. If I can say the rights speak it, I'm doing a really good job. I'm glad I started with the story that I can't tell to get on the same page. Um, but what they didn't quite understand is that a doctor can say anything, but they have no agency over whether or not the company decides to take that recommendation or not. And so many people just think that, oh, well, the law says this, or, oh, I have a medical note that says this. So my company has to do this. They don't have to do squat, right? They don't have to do squat. Um, so, you know, with that. Now, I love that you, that you bring up speaking, um, the language of the business, especially tying it to bottom line, um, or top line in the context of revenue. But where, what is one HR best practice that you quietly disagree with?

Jeremy Helton: I think that, you know, I've, over, over time I've come across, um, you know, HR professionals thinking that, you know, if a manager is having a problem with an employee to immediately go straight to a pit, you know, with nothing documented prior to that. Um, I wouldn't say that, you know, that that's considered an HR best practice to do. But there's HR professionals that think that that's okay to do that, um, because that having that one, you know, piece of paper can protect the company from the risk of, uh, anything going wrong. But, you know, even if that is the case, I mean, is that the right thing to do? No,

Chase: no. And it's, it's a cop out. You know, it's, it's a way to, um. And it's, it's seen as. This is one of my. You're speaking my language, um, with this. Because it's also seen as a power play. It's like, we're the company, here's the paper. Sign it or not. And you know how many people there could be numbers on this if are given a performance improvement plan, are not going to sign it whether they agree with or not. So spot on. I definitely agree with you on that. Um, next set of questions. This is more of. We're curious to hear from your experience testimony, actual examples of what you have lived through, this uh, profession of hr, what has been the hardest moment of your HR career to carry quietly.

Jeremy Helton: You know, there's definitely been quite a bit of hard moments, um, you know, even scary moments where it kind of could have been a life or death situation. Um, but I think something that has bothered me m. The most is you, um, know, kind of, you know, what I mentioned about, you know, kind of like a pit going straight to that. But I said before, you know, including somebody in a reduction in force because they don't like them. Yes, of course. I mean, if you're in an out will state, yeah, you can. Right. I mean, you can wait six months to a year after you've eliminated their role supposedly, and then replace it back. But to. To not have the courage to have the difficult conversations prior to that and then just including a person in a, um, you know, in a riff is. I just, I really just can't comprehend. I've seen it happen way too many times that it's just. I, I just don't like that.

Chase: Yeah, no, I get it. And it's one of my. I think that there are a few things that will cause me to square up and want to literally, um, show fists. But whatever managers will say that they can do whatever they want because the company's at will is just mind boggling to me. Yeah, mind boggling to me. Um, just mind boggling. So with that kind of. The next question is. In your HR experience, have you ever been asked to enforce something or do something that conflicted with your judgment or your HR values?

Jeremy Helton: Yeah, it was definitely, um, you know, laying off some individuals that, you know, I had heard previous discussions. Um, and, uh, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't in line with what really was going on. Uh, so, um, that's kind of, uh. Yeah, that's. To have to do that and still, you know, carry on with the rest of the day, you know, was tough.

Chase: Yeah, yeah. Um, no, I. That for me, um, it's like, you know, that it is not. It's not really a layoff or that there's there, there's, you know, the basis for the layoff and it's not. Textbook definition of layoff.

Jeremy Helton: Right.

Chase: Um, um, I hear you. I understand that completely. Um, talk to a little bit, you know, with, with our listeners and maybe it is someone that is in HR that's looking for some element of resonance here. Or maybe it's a person not in HR and needs to hear a different perspective. What is the emotional toll of being the person who sees everything within an organization but can say Very little at times.

Jeremy Helton: It can be a tremendous toll, you know, that goes, um, that you feel, um. I know for me personally, you know, all of that, you know, I can. I feel like I can distract myself, you know, throughout the evening, but when it's. When it's time to go to sleep at night, you know, that's. That's usually where it gets me. And then it turns into a sleepless night, and then, um, you know, how productive are you the next day? You know, it's. It's. For me, I have struggled with, you know, turning that off. But it's like when, you know, the things that, you know in this. In this kind of profession and, um, and there's other professions that are like that too. But, you know, just that. That for me is. Has been a challenge, you know, to just, you know, once I'm off the. Off for the day, you know, I need to turn off and not think about it.

Chase: Yeah, well. And, you know, absolutely. I'll never forget, you know, so in, um, my first HR role, um, and I tell folks jokingly, but also half seriously, I should not have been hired for that role because I was so green, um, and it was a large group, HR director, so be it. But I did have a mentor that, um, put me in that position. And he was there, um, and just the greatest. I mean, he was at the time, he was 65 years old, um, just a good old eastern Kentucky boy, uh, as he called himself. But I remember him looking at me and saying, chase, the most difficult part of HR is that, you know, too much. And for me, it was always the most difficult when I'm sitting in a room with, like. And it's the last part of this. Like, it's the mediation part. I have received the complaint. Huh. That this person has about their manager. And I know how they feel about it. I know what was said. I have receipts. And that we bring the manager in to come to some sort of resolve, and then they balk or they switch sides, and I can't throw that person under the bus in that moment. Whenever the dominant personality that I am, the no nonsense, just wants to look at them and say, what the heck. Yeah, you're lying. Like, you're. You are lying to me. You are lying to yourself, and you're lying. Like, that has been the hardest for me. Um, and still having to support the person. Um, yeah. Uh, it's just. I don't know if you've had anything similar. And you're. You're shaking. You're. You're Nodding your head, rather so I assume.

Jeremy Helton: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can think of, you know, even stories, too. Whereas, like, you know, a manager will, um, you know, be gung ho about, I need to write this person up, I need to fire this person, I need to do this. And, um, you know, it's finally, you get. You get to a middle point where you both have agreed on, you know, to do something, and then it's like you. The employee comes in and it's the employee hr and the manager. And the manager just completely shuts down and is like, looks over at hr like, okay, so are you, you going to handle this? No, this is not, this is not my responsibility to have that conversation for you.

Chase: Oh, yeah. And, uh, good for you for saying no. In my younger years, I, I would have. And I felt like I was being a good HR person and I was actually, um, held accountable to that, um, and was told, you know, you can't. You're not helping them, you're enabling the behavior. And at that time, I didn't see it, but it wasn't doing right by the employee either.

Jeremy Helton: Yeah.

Chase: Um, so it's, it's people. Um, so tell me, um, what do you feel like people outside of the function of HR misunderstand about hr?

Jeremy Helton: I think, you know, there's always. They. They always think we're the decision maker on everything. And it's like, no.

Chase: Which is fascinating to me, because.

Jeremy Helton: Fascinating to me most of the time. I mean, depending on your environment, if, if we really were, you know, it probably would be different, you know, like. But we just have to, you know, stand, you know, beside, you know, the decision sometimes. And, um, you know, I think, you know, employees misunderstand that, you know, people just. Other professions just think, you know, you just are heartless and you fire people all day, and that's not what it is.

Chase: You're right. You're right. And I do believe that. And I'm curious to hear your take on this, that a lot of that ideology, it's not made up. Managers that try. And the same manager that wanted you to have the hard conversation, they're also the same ones that when HR is not present, is using HR as scapegoat.

Jeremy Helton: Yeah. They'll say, oh, well, HR said you can't do that, or, uh, HR said this, you know, um, yes, yes.

Chase: And it's just like it ties back to the exact same thing that we were just talking about. You want to. It's just I'm chuckling because I'm going back in time. You're standing in the break room and someone is chewing you out, that employee, for making a decision. And the very manager that you know said that and blamed you is standing there too. And in that moment you want to just call it for what it is, but that's not helpful either.

Jeremy Helton: Right.

Chase: So it's just, it's, it's a constant game of politics, really.

Jeremy Helton: Yeah.

Chase: Um, so kind of this is, um, landing the plane in the, the latter part of our show is where we talk about what makes you craz enough to still work in this profession. Um, so before we get to that though, have you ever seriously considered leaving hr?

Jeremy Helton: Honestly, no, I have not. Even though that, you know, even when things have been really hard before, um, you know, I knew times when things were good and you know, that it can be good again. Um, and you know, sometimes, you know, that that could mean, you know, changing your environment. Um, you know, I'm three, um, months into a brand new role and you know, I think that that's been, um, good for, good for my growth and um, you know, kind of getting back more to the, seeing more of the positivity, um, impact HR can make rather than, um, you know, my previous environment where that wasn't always the case. Right.

Chase: And I think it's important for HR professionals and non HR professionals to hear that in that it is possible to find a workplace that you can work in HR that's healthy, that puts people first and not one that feels so toxic.

Jeremy Helton: Right.

Chase: Terms. Um, so if you, if you did. Well, you know what, we'll skip this question because you say that you're staying. So it's, it's, it's, it's sort of, it's pointless, you know, Hypotheticals. If HR professionals lived in a world of hypotheticals, we'd all go crazy. So we'll ask this question. What has kept you in the profession?

Jeremy Helton: I like being able to make an impact. Um, and it's not, you know, that I need the recognition to do that. It can be something small. You know, whether you've encouraged an employee enough to apply for that role, they don't think that they're ready for or you, um, know, or being there on someone's worst day that they've had, you know, they've found out they've lost a loved one and they, you know, come running in your office and you know, that's the first thing, you know, so it's being able to have that, that impact is, is important to me and makes me feel like that I'm, I'm Doing something good. You know, it kind of takes me back to, you know, years ago when I thought healthcare was what I was going to be doing. You know, so it's still in a way, still similar, uh, just in the, in the, um, in the business world environment.

Chase: So absolutely, I love that. And then I transparently had never really thought of it in that lens of that, you know, helping people, um, and the correlation rather. So do you believe, um, and I'm just going to. I don't believe this is a fallacy, even though I hope I'm wrong in that you and I are rare when it comes to our HR ideas, our HR practice and our values when it comes to hr. And I think it is important to acknowledge and accept that people have been harmed by bad hr, um, and bad management. With that, do you believe that HR can be practiced in a way that is sustainable long term? Because I'll say this, you're lucky. Um, and you're also evident that a work environment can be found where you can exercise the type of HR that you do. But on that same token, I can't operate in a workplace because of that same HR ideology. Um, I get told to buy. Um, that's not effective either. How can we get to a place as a function where it's sustainable long term for everyone?

Jeremy Helton: I think it's going to have to. Leaders are going to have to learn to accept that this is more of a strategic function. Now we're not pushing paperwork like this is personnel in the 60s and 70s. Um, we can do that. But there's, and there has to be that partnership in order to be sustainable. I mean if it's an organization that you're in, your leadership group is going to have to work cohesively together to do the right thing and the best thing they can for the workforce, whether that's the people, the other functions of the business, all of that. That's the only way that it's going to be sustainable.

Chase: Yep, absolutely. Absolutely. It's, it's, it's evolved quickly. It, you know, the function of HR and there's just so many. I don't know and I really don't know if there's many functions that have the stereotypes that HR has, you know, and you have to educate and work through those. Um, and it's just, it's interesting, um, in that way. So the last couple questions. What do you know now that you wish you would have known? M. In your very first HR role,

Jeremy Helton: you have to take care of yourself. You have to remember that, um, you know, because it's kind of like that saying, there's no HR for hr. Like you cannot get too overwhelmed or too involved in things that are not going to keep you productive or impactful. Um, so I think that there were times early on in my career where I would get overwhelmed because I would try to do too much. And um, you're just not effective that way. And um, you know, you have to, you have to know that you do have to keep a lot of information, you know, to yourself. You can't share it with someone, you can't gossip about it. I mean, you can't, you can't do all of that. I mean, and you know, it's like that saying, not everyone that smiles at you is your friend. So you got to be careful what you say and what you do because you are being watched.

Chase: Absolutely, absolutely. And that's such good advice in that you, not only can you not carry the burdens, but you're not expected to as an HR professional. Um, and if you do, you'll drive yourself crazy or ill legitimately. Um, last question. What kind of HR practitioner do you think this next generation of work actually needs?

Jeremy Helton: It's interesting, I like this question because there's all the talk right now about AI and that human piece has got to stay. And I think that even if we move towards, in the next several decades towards more automation and other artificial intelligence, I mean there's still, there's still going to be people, um, um, you know, that it becomes more of them, you know, operating certain things in a different way than they normally would in our present time. Um, but you know, it's interesting, I asked, uh, you know, I asked Chat GPT once, you know, my retirement year, that said I was like, based on what, you know, what is the HR function going to look like and you know, 20, 60 something. And uh, it was talking about how, you know, you know, it was clearly like a sci Fi type thing, but it was interesting to read, you know, hr. Ah, in that theory was managing like the empathy function for like these robots. Um, yeah. So it's like if we have those in the workforce, we may have to be more involved with the technology function to make sure these things are programmed right to interact with our people. So if that really happens, I mean, um, you know, that's kind of the, I guess where, where we will need to upskill.

Chase: Absolutely. And to your point, getting back to, um, you know, a large theme of, I, I believe at least each of our HR perspectives is, is empathy. Um, and if that's lost. I think it's missing right now. I hope it's not completely lost, but when you take a look at our world and society and workplaces, I feel like it is lost. Um, so I agree with you, um, wholeheartedly. But that's interesting. I'm glad that I have not prompted ChatGPT. That may keep me up at night.

Jeremy Helton: Yeah, it was pretty bizarre, but I'm like, well, anything could happen, so might as well prepare.

Chase: That is true. That is true. Well, Jeremy, I appreciate you, uh, for joining today, having this conversation. And, um, for those of you that tuned in, thank you for listening to today's conversation. I hope that you gathered something useful that you can apply in your HR or work experience. And if you've not hit subscribe, please do. Thanks for tuning in, Sam.