Episode 21: When HR Sees the Train Coming

Speaker A: Foreign. Ah, thanks so much for tuning in to the third episode of Overall hr. And I'm excited today to have a conversation with Emily Pearson with Monarch hr. And I could introduce her, but who better to introduce her than her herself? So Emily, tell our listeners a little bit about, about you and what it is that you do.

Speaker B: Thanks Chase. Thanks so much for having me on your podcast. I've listened, um, quietly in the, in the wings for a while, um, and I'm just honored to be here. So my name is Emily Pearson. I have spent most of my career working in public sector hr. Think of cities, fire districts, really complex environments with multiple job types and um, types of employees, types of highly complex HR situations where a lot of the things are just under the public eye and highly scrutinized, high risk and really rarely simple. My work has really centered around compensation, workforce strategy and moments where leaders feel. Can feel stuck because the decision carries some sort of risk, whether that be legal, political or you know, just, just people stuff. Um, over time I've learned that HR isn't just about policies or compliance. It's about judgment. Um, and it's about helping the leaders make decisions that they can explain and defend. And so that's a good segue to today. The work that I do as an independent consultant is, is spending time in that advisory space supporting organizations where stakes are high and it doesn't always feel like a clear way forward. That's the work that I really love to do at Monarch hr. Thanks for having me.

Speaker C: I love that.

Speaker A: Well, thanks for being here. Um, and you know, I had seen, I came across your profile on TikTok. Um, and I was like this, there, there's something here. Um, and it's interesting because our professional backgrounds are actually quite similar despite having never really. The first conversation we'd had was last week. Um, and I have to tell you Emily, that I respect you tremendously for working and still wanting to be involved in public sector anything. Um, because I just, I am. No, no, no, no. Um, and I'm really excited for the conversation, um, that our listeners will be able to. One that we're having today, but that our listeners will be able to, um, with. So the, the first question I have for you, um, Emily, is how did you originally end up in hr? Was it intentional? Was it by accident? Tell our listeners how you, you landed here.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think like any other bright eyed, bushy tailed college student, um, I started thinking I was going to be a child psychologist and I was going to like go into therapy and help all These people. And then I really realized very quickly that the stuff that you deal with with child psychology is heavy. And so I had to, I wasn't fully prepared for that, so I had to quickly pivot and I took in my psychology degree. They had industrial organizational psychology, which is really the psychology of work and the workplace. And I loved it. And so, and then I kind of had grand plans that I was going to go and be an industrial organizational psychologist and walk right into workplaces and they would welcome me, open arms, and have me change all the things. Um, I don't know how that works

Speaker A: out for you, Emily.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I'll let you know when I finally find that place. Um, um, but I did see that, you know, instead of like psychology, I still love psychology and why people think the way they think and do the things they do. And I think there is a lot of that in hr and, and having that background, um, helps me to maintain that empathy and that understanding of, you know, when somebody's spiraling, why are they spiraling? Why are they behaving the way they are? Um, but doing it in an HR capacity, I think just really interested me. So that you can affect a system instead of just individuals.

Speaker C: Absolutely.

Speaker A: Um, so with that, um, what version, you know, you use that term there, that broad eyed, bushy tailed, like, let's go, let's go lead this charge. What version of HR did you believe that you were stepping into prior to entering the workforce?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think I had. And maybe that's a fault of colleges and of, of the educational system is. I just, I thought that, I guess I never even questioned that the workforce wouldn't be open arms for the work that we do, Um, I didn't really expect any sort of pushback. Just like if you wanted to be an engineer or you wanted to be, um, any other profession, an accountant that you would come with like, you know, sometimes a brick wall right out the gate. And I didn't anticipate that. So that was the fun learning curve.

Speaker A: Yeah, fun is a very interesting adjective to use. Um, challenging.

Speaker B: Challenging.

Speaker A: I, I resonate with that. Um, I, I think I remember and I will tell you, I have, I used sort of this descriptor for me sort of to break the tension, um, where I say, but I'm precious, um, because it's hard. Like no matter what, you know, you know, your intention, just stating the obvious. Every person does, whether they consciously want to accept it, but as an HR professional that really wants to do what's best for the person in front of you, but that person, to use your terms, already has their wall up. I was trying to find something that could just use humor. I was being serious, but also I was trying to, like, shed light on the situation. Um, for sure. But, you know, you say something there that you never expected that people wouldn't accept you or to view you rather as part of. Part of the team. So, um, if you feel comfortable sharing here, what was the first moment in your career where you realize, oh, I'm not seen as one of. One of them. Like, one of. We're not collective here.

Speaker B: Yeah, I don't know if I have a specific moment in time, but more just like a couple sequences of events. Um, in my early career, I worked for a huge private organization, multinational, and I traveled a lot. And when we would travel, they'd have these dinners and they'd have all the sales reps there and the legal team and, And HR would magically not get an invite. And, you know, and it just, uh, again, I'm 20, however years old, and just like, that's just so weird. Maybe they just lost my invite or why didn't I? You know, and you start hearing the comments of like, well, we can't invite hr, you know, in the, in the, um, perception that we're the police or that we're going to bust them. And then you're wondering, well, what are you doing that you don't want me there? Yeah, what's going on? Um, so I think it was a few of those little moments of like, the rules seem different, the room gets quiet when you walk in the. You know, you get comments. I, um, would try and. Just to try and build rapport with some of my clients, you know, in a manufacturing setting of, uh, trying to just get a lot of FaceTime. And then you'd hear comments like, oh, somebody's getting fired. And. And you, you know, you just kind of just repeatedly like you're the grim reaper in the room. Even though at that point I didn't have. Yeah, at that point I didn't have the power to fire anybody. I was just like a HR coordinator. Um, so I think early on I realized maybe just the, the difference and then obviously the complexity layered on over time of navigating tricky things. Um, um, just feeling that level of isolation of, you can't talk about these things with anybody. To be a good practitioner of the craft.

Speaker C: Absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker A: Um, um, and we'll get more. I'm taking some notes. We'll get more into this a little bit later. Um, um, but I am curious and if you to share, I would like for you to share with our listeners. If I can speak what role you told us a little bit about Monarch hr, but talk to us about your current role and how different that is from where you started.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. So, um, thanks for teeing that off. So I just recently started my own advisory consulting practice. I'm in northern Colorado. And Colorado is interesting where it's probably the second most complex employment law state outside of. Outside of California. And we're kind of following a lot of the path of California and so cutting my teeth in that environment where the stakes are really high, especially right now. The. I went to a training where it was referred to as like, like in the mov in the show Stranger Things, the Upside Down World, where the federal administration's going one direction with removing lots of protections and things, but Colorado's tightening them up. So you're in this constant tension of like, where does the law actually exist? Um, and I know that was kind of a segue, but where I stand right now is doing this independent work and my two client groups are small businesses and the public sector groups that I still love to work with. Um, but small businesses especially because they.

Speaker A: How.

Speaker B: How are they to know how to navigate this complex landscape? It's enough for us for HR professionals, let alone somebody who's a business owner and have to keep track of everything to run their business. Um, so yeah, it's. There's been some common threads from where I started to where I am now. I've still maintained that, um, not to sound cliche, but that like, employee first mindset, which I think is why I'm in this consulting space now as I can really pick and choose which groups I work with, which projects I take on and those that don't align with my values, you know, I can, I can let pass by. But really trying to focus on the employee outcome is really a passion of mine.

Speaker C: Absolutely. I love that.

Speaker A: Which, you know, this is perfect for the next section of questions. Here is. I'm curious about your HR philosophy and you've used some terms there to give our listeners sort of an idea or a look behind the curtain rather of, you know, employee first values driven alignment with HR judgment and company values and directions. Um, so when it comes to what HR is actually responsible for from your take, what is HR responsible for? You laugh. So, um, I'm like, I'm laughing because,

Speaker B: Chase, are we responsible for really anything? I mean, HR is such a unique role where we have no authority. Right. Like, truly, unless you're like the chro. You probably have authority over, like, the benefits plan and some things like that. But other than that, it's advisory. Whether you're in your own practice, like myself, or you're in a huge organization, HR is responsible for kind of like the, um, keeping the business within the guardrails. Right. And so it's a lot of, like, even though if we talk about compliance and policy, it's all about bouncing off those guardrails and figuring out the right risk tolerance for whatever group or even leader that you're working with. And so, in a sense, HR is not responsible for, or, uh, I should say not fully accountable for anything, but we're responsible for kind of maintaining that risk when it comes to culture, people, um, and just workplace kind of cohesion, team dynamics, those things.

Speaker C: Absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker A: You say that hr. I'm kind of going off script here. Um, but I'm curious to hear your take on this, because I, And I agree with this. You say HR has no authority. Why do you think so many people believe that HR has the authority that it does?

Speaker B: You know, and it's. You mentioned that we met each other via TikTok, so we've seen all these comments. Right. Um, I think, sadly, it's because they've had real, lived, terrible experiences. Right?

Speaker C: Absolutely.

Speaker B: Just like any other profession, there's people that are good at their jobs and people that aren't. And unfortunately, I think the people that are the loudest are the ones that had bad experiences with hr. And that's unfortunate. And I think you do a nice job. I've seen Chase with honoring those experiences and acknowledging that, like, yeah, that is terrible. Um, and so I think that's where that perception comes in of, you know, HR is there. Just HR is not your friend. Hr, whatever. And who knows where those practitioners learn that style of really authoritarian of kind of the. The taskmaster or the rule keeper. Um, I think definitely when you're. I know that, like, definitely when I was in my career, I was probably quicker to say no about a lot of different things because that felt like the safer choice instead of learning this space of give and take and. Absolutely, um, allowing some give and safe spaces so that when you do say no or you do and maybe not even know, but when you do advise against something, it carries weight because your client and your customer knows, like, okay, this is a big deal if. If they're getting this pushback.

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker A: Um, and you, you know, you touched their. TikTok can be wild. It's kind of us. I Don't even remember. So when I first started TikTok, it was actually for overall HR. It was for this podcast. And that was all that I wanted it to be. Um, and I've had individuals. Um, a lot of folks may not realize this, but, and I've not ruled this out, I actually wanted and want to still go into ministry. Um, and how I landed up in hr, that's a story for another day. So a lot of the feedback I've received from business coaches and also from people in my life is, you know, you know, you, um, this is, you know, you. You articulate well, you speak well. And so in my mind, I actually have a separate TikTok that is like, biblically political based. It doesn't have very many followers. Um, not that follower count matters. Now, I'm rambling, but I made a TikTok once on that overall HR page, just being funny. And it took off, like, got 640,000 views. And people are just giving so much hate towards hr. And even then I knew. I mean, I had. I left two jobs on not very good terms. So I knew that there was something there and that HR hatred. Um, but then I was like, okay, there's something here. So then I started the TikTok just on having conversation, and it's died down a lot. Um, I think because people know that I do bark back. I don't buy it, but I'm not going to let, like, just trolls troll. And I don't know what that says about me, but I think it needs to be. Here's a mirror look in it. Um, but with that and sticking to the comments that we receive on TikTok and other socials, something that I see a lot, and I'm sure you see a lot, is this HR is HR exists to protect the company. Sure. Um, but when you hear people say that, or heck, when you hear leaders say your job is to protect us, how do you interpret that?

Speaker B: I mean, it just has that icky feel. Right. Like, and anybody that's practiced HR for any amount of time knows that there is some grain of truth in that. Right. Like, just like a legal team, that there is an element of trying to protect. And when I said and when we say company, we mean the company as a whole. And I think the way that I like to reframe that is you can't protect the company without protecting the employees.

Speaker C: Absolutely.

Speaker B: So if you are, I think usually when people say that, they view it as like, you're protecting the upper echelons of leadership. And I Think rarely do good HR people have that as their primary focus. I think they're constantly in between, um, they're this layer in between upper leadership and the employee population and spending so much time advocating for what's right. And, and so that's how I turn that on the head is like, how else do we protect the company if we can't do it? Through protecting its people. Because there are no. There is no company without the people. Right.

Speaker C: Exactly. Exactly.

Speaker A: Um, so with that, what is one HR best practice that you actually disagree with? You don't see it as being a best practice at all.

Speaker B: Hmm. M. That one's tricky. I would say, like, not getting to. Not forming strong relationships with employees. You know, I think there's definitely professional boundaries for any role. But I think when I think some HR folks are taught that you have to have these strict boundaries and you can't cross them ever. And that breeds that mentality of this like, authoritarian type hr. And so I really try to build relationships with the leaders and the employees while maintaining professional boundaries. But, um, I don't adhere to that strictly that you have to be so buttoned up all the time because I think then it, it creates that unnatural environment that I talked about earlier in my career where you walk into the room and it gets quite quiet and so allowing people to get to know you and being a person first. Because the other thing you always hear is like, HR is not there to be your friend. And that's always an interesting comment that you hear because I'm. I don't know where people are assumed that HR is there to be your friend. Like, I would never assume that, like accounting's there to be your friend or engineering's there to be your friend. Um, but I do think that you can be personable and have. I mean, you spend a lot of time with these people. You can have relationships with people, um, and not be so formal all the time.

Speaker C: Absolutely.

Speaker A: I agree with that 110%. Um, where do you think we, we talked about this, um, a second ago and you had brought up the point that, um, HR doesn't really have power. Um, but with that, where do you think. And this sort of seems contradictory, but where do you think HR has the most power, even if that's indirectly? Um, even if it's not always used correctly?

Speaker B: I think it's at least when I've seen it done. Well, is that like how I said that? Liaising between leadership and employees? I think oftentimes, and I guess I don't know if I would Use the word power, but I think strength, I would use. So maybe that's anonymous, but where I think human resources, whether you're a department of one or in a greater department or a contractor, you get a unique perspective where you can zoom out and see everything in the organization. If you're an operations leader, a finance leader, or a marketing leader, you're going to mainly spend your time focusing on your silo, which is what you're supposed to do, versus hr, has this opportunity to zoom out and look at the workings of the organization as a whole. And like I said in my last section about if you've done the work to build the relationships with people and they trust you, you're also getting live feedback on engagement, on all kinds of things that other leaders wouldn't have that perspective on. So I think that's really powerful if it's used. Well, I, um, think you said, even if we don't always use it, I don't know if it's that we can't always use it, but maybe the organization doesn't always tap into or acknowledge that as a strength.

Speaker C: Absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker A: And I do want to go on record I said the wrong thing. You answered that eloquently and perfectly. But your quote was, hr has no authority. Not that they didn't have any power. So I want to correct that, um, because there is a difference in authority and power. Um, but you still, and I agree with that, I love the fact that you say there that it's not about the fact that hr, um, can't necessarily use that power or flex that muscle. It's whether or not leadership is willing to accept it. Because HR can extend their hand for a fist bump or handshake all day, but it takes two parties. Um, it takes two parties. So, you know, now that we kind of have an idea of your HR philosophy and your origination, um, story, let's talk about the fracture points that happen and sort of that. For those of you that are familiar with the show, overall HR has three meanings. It's overall hr, just this general sense of, hey, here's this, um, profession. And then there's overall hr, where you are over it, that kind of solo practitioner piece, your philosophy, which we just touched on. But then there's that piece that I think every HR professional faces call it burnout, call it the Great Resignation. But it's that I'm overall hr. Um, so with that, what has been that moment for you where you were like, I'm over all of this. What's been the hardest moment for you to carry within your hr, um, career.

Speaker B: Yeah, I love that explanation of the three different types because I think if you spend any amount of time in hr, you've felt all those different pieces. I think the hardest moments haven't been single events, but it's been prolonged periods where you can see, see risk building but decisions get deferred. Or, um, again, if we're in this advisory space, advisement gets ignored and then HRs left sitting in this space where you can. It's like you can see the freight train coming and whether that's on the employees, on the company culture, the trust, or even like an operational risk. Right. Because people, people really drive operations. Um, but you can't. You. There's like nothing you can do to control the timing or the ability for the leadership to act. And so carrying that awareness, that quiet awareness, while still having to show up and be really professional and do your job and be steady is probably one of the biggest burdens of the role. And what I would say is what leads to the most burnout in the role.

Speaker C: Absolutely.

Speaker A: Um, and talk to me a little bit and our listeners about the emotional toll of being that person. Um, and I love the way that you articulate this and that you have those prolonged periods of. You can see risk just compounding.

Speaker B: Um,

Speaker A: how, how does an HR professional, I guess, what's your advice to an HR professional that sees that and they can do little about it?

Speaker B: Yeah, I've dealt with this in multiple roles from being like an HR department of one to being in a larger organization. And in all of those aspects, it's really isolating. You're holding information and context that others don't have. Like you said, whether that's legal exposure, employee impact patterns that you're seeing repeating themselves, and oftentimes that's confidential. You have to be really careful of like, who you share that with, how you share it. Um, and so it's, it's really taught me the importance of having spaces where you can have those types of conversations openly. So in my, One of my former roles, where I was an HR department of one, I built a network of other HR professionals in similar industries of myself. So we were like this greater HR department where we had a lot of trust and transparency and can have. Could have kind of conversations openly while still respecting boundaries. Um, and, and that helps a lot where you can have your people lean on therapy. Um, right. Like your therapist is sworn to confidentiality. Um, that's one of the only safe spaces where you can truly open up and Process things. But it is like, I like the phrasing that you use an emotional toll.

Speaker A: Um,

Speaker B: it can carry a lot of weight. And I think that isolation is one of the trickiest parts for this kind of work.

Speaker C: Absolutely.

Speaker A: Um, and so with that, that emotional toll, and, you know, I love the fact that you surrounded yourself with people who get it. Um, but for those that don't get it, that are outside of hr, what do you think people misunderstand the most about. About the role of hr?

Speaker B: I think it's what we talked about earlier. The like, if whether they've had a bad experience with an HR professional or a friend of a friend's cousin did, and that that's what they're left. You know, they have this kind of preconceived bias, um, thinking that like, again, like, we're the enforcer, we're the police of the workplace. And certainly some HR professionals act that way. You know, it's a. I've been toying with this idea and talking about it in my other HR spaces where human resources is a unique field, where it's a degreed profession, there's certifications, there's. It's a profession. But sometimes in these smaller businesses, in particular in the public sector, I've seen this where if you're a small enough organization, they assign the tasks of HR to like an office manager or somebody that's been running payroll or accounts receivable, and they have no training in hr. They did maybe one class. You would never do that for like an eng. I know I keep talking about engineers, but you would never do that for a different type of degreed professional type work. But it's so common in hr, and I don't know why that is. Um, and I think that is an interesting topic. We could have a whole episode just about that.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah, I agree.

Speaker B: But that probably is what's causing that consternation and that dilute. It's like diluting the trust that people have in the profession. Even though it's probably a lot of these practitioners that fell into hr. You hear a lot of people like, oh, I just fell into hr, um, versus somebody like you and I, who. That's been an intentional career path.

Speaker C: Absolutely.

Speaker B: We've really made that, you know, our practice and what we do. So I think it's probably where those things collide is like bad stories that people have and, and then that. That's really hard to shake when that's been your experience and there's a lot of trust you put in. HR carries a Lot of trust in the employee experience, whether it's employee pay, they're not performing well, and you have to have those hard conversations. And so your employees come to you in a really vulnerable state. And so fear plays into that too.

Speaker C: Absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker A: Um, very well said. Um, so kind of segueing into the last section now of our show. Um, HR has had its ups and downs for you, um, but you chose to exit the W2 world and start your own HR business, which tells me that you're not going anywhere. So what has kept you. What is it about HR that's kept you in the field, um, but also has now, um, inspired you, rather, to start this. This new journey of yours?

Speaker B: Yeah. I think despite how we've been talking about all these challenges and the toll, I still love it. And for me, staying in our HR eventually meant changing how I practice it and not leaving the field entirely. So realizing that my strength and my excitement and is surrounded by helping leaders think through hard decisions, being in that judgment space and not that execution space. And really, I don't need to own every element of how to file workers, comp. And, um, process everybody's, you know, data entry elements. But I do feel like I can bring a lot of value into helping leaders think a different way about, like we said, either workforce dynamics, team dynamic dynamics, judgment, decision support. Um, I think for me, that's how it can stay more sustainable, is really getting to zoom out and work on the projects and work with the clients that align with that.

Speaker C: Absolutely.

Speaker A: Um, you know, this is. This is sort of off script, but I'm curious, um, because you. I resonate and I had a conversation with, um, another HR professional on the east coast yesterday. Um, and Kesha is her name and she was on the show. She was actually episode two. So if you've not listened to episode two, please give it a listen. Uh, because she had some really great takes. Um, but my point is Kesha's story, Emily's story, and Chase's story is essentially the same. We were intentional about the profession. We have the same ideology in people matter. Their stories are valid and people deserve better. M. Um. And as a result, we didn't leave the profession, but we have started our own thing. And my question, uh, just more of a general question, and I want to pick your brain on, is where does that leave organizations? Because I'm able to support myself, Kesha is able to support herself, you're able to support yourself. And it seems like it's moving more towards this. We're not putting up with the bull. We're not going to shut up. Um, but organizations still need, I think a lot of organizations still need that internal HR presence.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's a great question and time will tell. I've read a lot of articles about work in general going to where you have this more fractional advisory support in different strategic spaces. So whether that's your cfo, your coo, and it gives, I think it's an exciting opportunity for organizations where you could probably have an in house hr. Like I said, execution person who's um, really good at the details, can really keep, keep the wheels on the bus. And then you have the opportunity to bring in higher level strategic support but you're not purchasing it full time. Right. So whether you're facing a hard business challenge or you have a big project that you're trying to implement, um, the market now supports the ability to kind of flex and bring in different support.

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker B: And then, you know, when it's done well, that strategic advisory support can set up the internal HR practitioner for success and be somebody they can lean on. Certainly maybe some businesses will just choose to be in, you know, I'm in the west, so we'll say, we always talk about the Wild West. Um, maybe they'll choose to just say that they don't need HR and they can do it on their own, but there's significant consequences for those choices.

Speaker C: Absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker A: I agree with that. Um, what do you think is necessary? You know, we talk about the folks like you and I that have made the exit, um, and have a hard time even accepting. I'm not going to say never. I'm not, I'm not going to say never, say never, but have a hard time accepting this reality of ever going back into a traditional HR W2 setting. Um, but that said, we know it's necessary. Do you believe that HR can be practiced in a way that is sustainable long term for a person? And if, if so, why? And if not, why not?

Speaker B: Yeah, that's a good question. I like the word sustainability. Um, I do think, think it can be sustainable, but only if HR isn't positioned as a catch. All right. I think that tends to be. If you spent any amount of time in hr, you realize like somehow you're ending up being a party planner and the potluck organizer and you're having to stop doing that to go deal with some employee issue. I think when it's when all the catch all stuff gets dumped into the role, that's when it quickly becomes unsustainable. So I Think sustainability has to. To be able to achieve that. It has to come with the ability for HR to operate as a strategic advisor, have a seat at the table, um, not just be the executor, because the judgment has to be valued just as much as the output in the role. Absolutely. And when you have that break between those two, I think that's where burnout lives. And so having, like we said, being HR has this extreme strength and talent of being able to zoom out and see the whole organization and understand how all the pieces fit together. And if that professional isn't being utilized appropriately, they're gonna leave and they're gonna either leave or become disengaged. I talk about, um, one of my videos on TikTok that went. I won't even say viral.

Speaker A: I'm still so absolutely did. No, you're.

Speaker B: It got a lot of attention was I. I have a tendency to speak in metaphor, and people that know me, I get made fun of for it. But one of the ones that I use all the time is the, the analogy, uh, of the canary in the coal mine. And what I mean by that is like you might have. We all know that employee that's super engaged. They sign up for everything. They come to all the events. They're just chipper and happy. And I call them the canary in the coal mine because if they get quiet, that's a really early indicator that something is off in the culture, in the environment. And so sometimes I think HR can be that canary in the coal mine too, of when that person isn't being utilized to their full extent, they're going to disengage and they're going to get quiet and be that canary in the coal mine. And it's just further information for leadership for the health of the whole entire organization.

Speaker A: You're right.

Speaker C: You're absolutely right.

Speaker A: And I love. I, um, love that you speak in metaphors, analogies. I'm. I'm the same way. Um, so I, I love to hear that from another HR professional. Um, and I'll remind my. My friends, I'm not the only one.

Speaker B: Odo. I've got a lot of Emilyisms of things I say, so follow me on TikTok if you want, uh, more of those.

Speaker A: I love it. I love it. Um, yes, please follow EMILY On. On TikTok. It's. Is it. It's Monarch HR.

Speaker B: Yes. And I have to look, um, to see what my actual, um, like handle at Monarch HR.

Speaker A: Monarch HR.

Speaker B: HR on TikTok. I'd love for you to follow me there. And humor me, because TikTok, like you said, TikTok is a crazy place, but it's. It's a creative outlet, and it's necessary.

Speaker C: It's absolutely necessary.

Speaker A: Um, so with that, I have one last question for you today. Um, what kind of HR practitioner do you think the next decade actually needs?

Speaker B: Ooh, I kind of teed this up earlier. I think it's that judgment and advisory space. So, um, HR really can do their best work when they help people make the decisions they can stand behind. So being a true advisor to leadership, um, I think building that trust and being. Listen, if anybody wants to help, it's hr. We're always there to help everybody. And so letting leaders allowing us to be in that advisory and judgment space is just going to strengthen the whole of the organization. So I think that's really where the future of HR can benefit everyone. Benefit the organization and the employees.

Speaker C: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Speaker A: Well, Emily, you are just an entire, I don't know, just bucket of wisdom. Um, and I know, I think back to that first conversation we'd had. You said you have a lot to say, and you do. And, uh, for listeners, please, uh, follow Emily Monarch, HR on TikTok. She's on LinkedIn. Emily Pearson. Um, and I'm looking forward just to watching what additional content and, um, wisdom that you impart on not just HR professionals, but professionals in the business sphere. And for those of you that are looking for an HR advisor in the public sector, Emily, um, is your girl. And Colorado, as you said, is complex. So please reach out to her. I know that she can be of benefit, um, to any person that's looking for HR advisory. Uh, thank you for tuning in to the third episode of Overall hr. If you've not hit subscribe, please do. And looking forward to more conversations surrounding all things hr.

Speaker B: Thank you, Chase.