Stupid Spending Decisions by Entrepreneurs with Cameron Williams

Speaker A: Okay. If you want to travel, we need to tie this to business. So then we'll give them that strategy. So guess what? Now they're excited because not only can I do what I want to do, but now I can write it off, and then I tell them how to do that. So now it's tying in with their dream life, and now there's more fulfillment. Now there's a clear target to aim towards when I'm m making this money and I know what I'm trying to do. So I just think we got to do a better job of that.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. I totally agree with you. Because at the end of the day, it's like, business is hard. There's a reason why most people don't start a business or don't even think about it. Because business and entrepreneurship is hard. It's one of the hardest things ever. But you do it so that you can have access to these opportunities, more money, and, um, you get to control your income. Right? But then once you're in a point of your business where you feel like you don't control your money, you don't understand it, that's when you start unloving your business. And I feel like that's, that's just like kind of a downward spiral.

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Speaker B: Good morning and welcome to another episode of none of your business. My last episode was actually talking about money, and I was talking about some toxic Filipino mindsets around money. And this is funny because I feel like every subculture has their own, like, toxic beliefs about money. Things that their parents told them. Whether you're. Whatever color you are, you're white, you're black, you're Asian, you know, like, wherever you come from, there are certain things and beliefs in everyone's culture. And I was just sharing what it was like for Filipinos, for a ton of Filipinos growing up, and especially navigating these conversations as you grow older. So that was pretty funny and also kind of a coincidence because my guest today, we are also going to talk about money, so. But in the mindset or perspective of business owners. My guest today, Cameron Williams, is the CEO and founder of Kinley Consulting, LLC. He has 12 years of experience within the accounting industry in both private and public accounting, serving tech, card processing, energy, PR and other industries. Over the past seven years, he has helped hundreds of marketing agencies and business owners save over $2 million in, in taxes and make more money, while streamlining their finances in the process. Cameron's practical strategies not only clearly communicate the confusing accounting and tax world, but empower, um, business owners to take control of their money so that they can live the life that they want and create the company that they've always imagined strategically. He's now on a mission to impact 300 marketing agencies with his financial strategies to grow their impact and income in 2030. So, wow, beautiful mission. Welcome. Cameron. How are you today?

Speaker A: I'm doing good. That intro right there, I feel like I'm going into the hall of fame or something.

Speaker B: I know, I know. I was really pressured by that because it sounds like such a big deal. I was trying to hide my, my Manipakiao accent, you know, So I love that you're doing this because for business owners, admittedly I used to be very bad at money. I used to just think, oh, there's more money coming in than going out. I'm good. So it's a very simplistic way of thinking about it. But what's, what's some of the funnest or most ridiculous example that you've seen of a business owner spending thousands maybe on tools or software that they barely use? Like, let's talk about, like, stupid business decisions.

Speaker A: Well, you know, I can't say stupid because some of my clients may listen and they may identify. So, um, yeah, for. Well, first off, thank you for having us, but some of the crazier things we've seen is like, you'll hear that some clients may want to do two things that are opposite. So can't wanna make more money, but I want to save a bunch of money too. Or I don't want to pay a lot in taxes, but I don't want to spend any money. It's kind of like they pick these opposites that can exist and what we Always just try to do a really good job of making very clear for them is you're going to have to pick both or you're going to have to be super slow on one and fast on the other. Right?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: If I want to save more money, which means not spend it, then it's going to be very hard to scale your company because you're not going to try to spend any. Or if it's the other way, hey, I really want to scale, but I want to build up my cash reserves. Well, unless we just have huge amount of cash, I'm talking about the business is running at maybe, maybe 40k a month in expenses and you're making like 100k, 150, etc. Well that's completely different. Well then we have so much extra cash we can do that. But that's typically not the uh, what's happening. So therefore you can't do that. So typically we see some opposite mindsets and I think concept of uh, people wanting to have their cake and eat it too and we have to just do a really good job of communicating. Hey, I get that. But let's be realistic, this is how it really works, right?

Speaker B: Exactly. Like if the world was perfect, the more donuts I eat, the skinnier I get. Right? Like if the world was perfect or the more tacos you eat Cameron, the skinnier you get because you basically, basically 3% taco now you've altered your DNA from eating too many tacos.

Speaker A: Mhm. Yes. Tacos solve a lot of problems and if you make your taco correctly you should be able to lose some weight though.

Speaker B: That's true, that's true. So yeah, go back to our, our topic. I really empathize with you in like hearing all of these opposite mindsets or opposite perspectives and obviously I think that's like just a lack of education. Right. Or like people trying side too fast without really thinking about what they're doing. Um, what about cash flow? So what are some of the huge cash flow mistakes that some of your clients really, really needed your help with?

Speaker A: Oh, that's a good one. So this one now we see this one all the time. So like even yesterday, so I was talking to one of our relatively newer clients and what they were doing kind of a similar business model to you where they help people by staffing. And so what she was trying to communicate was hey Cameron, I don't think these numbers is right but you know me, I'm like these my numbers, you know what I'm saying? I did this right, right and what she was trying to get at was, first and foremost, when you're talking about accounting and taxes, you have to change definitions of words. That's what makes accounting so hard and complicated. Cash is not like cash. We think the green bill. Cash is like money in the bank. Right. Versus revenue is what I earned.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Even though I may not have gotten the money yet.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So she was trying. What she said was like, yeah, not our true profit though. And I'm like, she. Because you know, that's not our revenue. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. That is our real revenue. AKA I build. And you know this because you run the same model. Hey, I'm gonna bill you 5k a month for this staffing. You know, you need this CFO person, but we have to pay them maybe 4k. So the real cost to us as a company, the only thing we really make is $1,000. So what's confusing was I want. When you get done with all these fancy graphs and numbers, I want to see what is the total cash coming out my bank account, what I'm left with versus in accounting. It doesn't paint that exact picture. So we have to make sure that when we're talking about cash flow. Cash flow is when you pay everything, give yourself distributions, pay off loans, pay off credit, the final number is. So what we typically see is just to make it super easy with super easy numbers. All right, I make 50k in revenue this month. Yeah. Praise the Lord. We making money. And I spent 40k in expenses. So 50 minus 40 is 10k. Accounting will tell you, hey, you're profitable. Temper. Or uh, $10,000 left over. But what we don't see is then they will take that 10k and they'll say, hm, well, I'm take a K for my salary. You know, I got this personal credit card that I need to pay down, so I'm going to pay down 5k on that. What? 8 plus 5 is 13. But remember, you technically only had 10. So what does the question to us become, Cameron, I don't get it. I should have a in KMI account lower and I had a good month. Well, that's because the accounting equation count in the fact that you just paid yourself a distribution and then you paid off that personal credit card, which is another distribution. Those are on the balance sheet in a completely different section. So that's why, like you'll see me even talk about in my content. We can look profitable on paper, but in reality, our cash flow is destroyed. We're running in the black. That's why you see people have to get the stripe loans and things of that nature because I'm technically making the money but I can't afford payroll, I can't pay bills because they're taking so much from the business and doing it that way. So cash flow is very important. I think that the accounting industry as a whole, we do a bad job of really painting that picture to notate the difference of uh, cash is what is left in that bank account versus profit in the accounting equation is something completely different.

Speaker B: Yeah. And this is why I really like it when you, the way that you talk about money and money in the business, Cameron, because a lot of accountants, CPAs and financial advisors, they show you what it is and they tell you what it is. But it's rare for some of these people to properly like strategize based on the owner's lifestyle goals. Like there are people, I have clients very, very happy making 30k a month clean. As long as they take home 30k a month, they're probably making 50, 60 and then they take home 30, they're super happy. And then I have clients that are wanting to go eight figures. Uh, I'm going to go to the next figure, I need that next comma. So there are clients like that too and sometimes it affects their, their personal lives, like how they're thinking about money and it's not clear to them what their personal goals are. And they, so they don't understand the accounting stuff, the tax stuff and they also don't understand its relevance to their lives and what they should be doing next. And I really love your approach and I've seen it. You, you always have these conversations, you know, uh, during the summit you always ask questions that put the owner on the, in the center of what is this money thing? And how can we make this money serve you as the owner? And this is why you guys need to connect with Cameron. I'm going to share his links on the show notes and feel free to follow all of his content as well.

Speaker A: So wait, wait, wait, we got to go there because you just hit something super important. Yeah, I think that's where we as uh, an accounting industry have ah, failed because by definition we're very analytical. Right. Two plus always, no matter what. Four. Yeah, but in real life we don't take the time to learn the client and who they are as a person because that really strongly affects how they're making decisions financially, why they want to save or why they want to spend. You have to do a deeper psychoanalysis of the client. Because I can tell you something that theoretically is correct, but it's incorrect because of your goals and the way you live.

Speaker B: Right, Right.

Speaker A: So we just have to do a better job, and that's what we've tried to do. Because with me being a business owner, like, I'm married, three kids, there's a reason why we work. Nobody works because they just love it. In a perfect world, you hope to love what you do, but there's typically another reason. It's, I want to travel more. I want more time with my kids. I want to be able to take care of my mom when they get older. I want to be able to invest and buy property and. Or whatever that is for you. Until you know what that is and until you know why. Are spending habits the way they are, it would be very unfair, uh, for me to give you financial strategy because I simply don't know you well enough to give you something other than a traditional. Oh, okay. Be an escort. Right, Right. And you've heard that, like, oh, yeah. So, like, that's cool. But there are some people we told you don't need to be one, and they're like, I'm like. Because when we run the numbers based on what you told us, you're not going to be able to have enough money to even pay yourself for it to work. Right. Which negates the hope. Oh, I didn't know that. Nobody ever told me that. That's why we use the number. So we just have to do a better job of learning our clients. You know what I mean? So, like, we have some people, they're like, I just want to travel.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Okay. There's two ways around that. There's either you're going to pay yourself X amount of money so you can travel. I'm more on the mindset. I try not to tell my clients no too much.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: So I would say, okay, if you want to travel, we need to tie this to business. So then we'll give them that strategy. So guess what? Now they're excited because not only can I do what I want to do, but now I can write it off. And then I tell them how to do that. So now it's tying in with their dream life, and now there's more fulfillment. Now there's a clear target to aim towards when I'm making this money, and I know what I'm trying to do. So I just think we got to do a better job of, uh. That.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. I totally agree with you. Because at the end of the day. It's like, business is hard. There's a reason why most people don't start a business or don't even think about it. Because business and entrepreneurship is hard. It's one of the hardest things ever. But you do it so that you can have access to these opportunities, More money and more, um, you get to control your income. Right. But then once you're in a point of your business where you feel like you don't control your money, you don't understand it, that's when you start unloving your business. And I feel like that's. That's just like kind of a downward spiral. So it's. It's great that you, you know, you have. We have people like you who can not only make the books make sense, but make the money make sense to the business owner as well.

Speaker A: We got to go there, though, because you talked about the downward spiral.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: We seen people and we've had to talk people off the list, too. Oh, yeah, it's very easy, especially in today's world.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: To start what they call the comparison trap. Oh, man, I thought I was going to make a million dollars. I'm only on track to hit 850. Well, we have to walk them through, kind of like. Okay, well, wait, wait, wait. Why are you saying this?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So when we get them talking. Well, that's just what I thought. I'm not on track. So we even had to start putting in our monthly financial reports. Hey, from this. From January through July in 24 versus now doing that same period in 25. You're making more revenue. You're paying yourself more. Yes, you bigger team and you're paying them. Uh, but look, your is even higher or right at the same with you paying people in a higher salary, then you see, like, the light bulb go out because you're like, oh, I didn't realize I was doing so well. Right. Because if we just constantly look at social media.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: Um, you know, come up with all these crazy lies in our head that we agree with. Like, you'll think you're doing terrible because you're not at a million. But last year you were at 500k and you're on track to hit 850. Like, we gotta learn to celebrate these wins and start identifying. Why am I thinking that? Who am I comparing myself against? What. What award, uh, am I chasing? Like, why do I have to hit a million in a year? Maybe it takes two years. But you did the right way in this steady. Everything doesn't have to happen in six months. Just because social or some course promised you that.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: We got to remember the sustainability of this, that we're supposed to as a business owner be doing this for the next like our whole. If you technically build your business correctly.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Have a need to retire because you're going to always be doing what you love to do. You may change it, you may adapt it, but in theory I shouldn't need a retirement account because I can do what I'm doing at 75. Hopefully I would have built a company that can do a lot of things without me. And I'm just coming in as like a strategic advisor or making big continued relationships. But like we have to remember this is a 20, 30, 40 year gain, not a one year.

Speaker B: Exactly. No, I love that. I love that. I've been in my business in outsourcing for about 10 years now and I don't feel like slowing down at all. In fact, I'm loving and loving it more, especially coming from the Philippines, being able to give these opportunities. But I'm totally right there with you. Like sometimes it is this small, this small moment of looking at our books and on our bank and feeling dissatisfied that makes you go on this thought spiral of, well, I hate my business. I don't know about the future. And it's crazy because we've also gone through the pandemic which has traumatized us and caused us a lot of feelings of wall. I don't know about the future. A little bit nihilistic, but I understand how we can now be more, um. How do I say this? Like, like we get more triggered when there's like a slight adjustment in the market or things like that. Um, let's talk about, uh, why do you think a lot of people still struggle? Can't pay an invoice, almost can't pick, make payroll even if they're making say a million dollars a year.

Speaker A: That's a great question because we see that all the time and it comes down to what we just were talking about. So you had the childhood thought process around money. Did maybe your dad worked a lot. So in your brain. Oh, working a lot is bad. I can't do that. Therefore I can't make a lot of money. And then you got leave. Maybe you have rich people are just bad, right. Or that I'm just always supposed to be poor because everybody else in my family. Or maybe you don't want to be ostracized because you're the one that is making a lot of money, but your family going to be oh, you changed up and switched up on, um, whatever. So, like, there's that component then. It's what you talked about at the beginning, where we don't know what we don't. People know how to make money and hustle, um, but they may not know how to make money. Like you made that statement at the beginning. I'm making more than I think I'm spending. That may be true, but time to hire somebody. That's why I, uh, I need to make a new hire or I need to pay more, but I can afford it because there's no strategy in place. There's no accounting, there's no data to make that choice from. We're just kind of going with the flow. And as long as much. What we've seen is when you start to make things crystal clear and you communicate and you show the client you actually care. And I tell my clients that, like, if you're winning, I'm winning by default. Right? I have to do a very good job. We like to manage. We educate. We were going to take care of the number, but it's my job to educate you. Of course, not with all my experience, but just so that you can have even basic conversations without me, you need to know, hey, on average, my profit is about this. Hey, on average, out of the five services that we offer, like let's say it's websites hosting, fractional CMO and some type of consulting. Hey, our best offer is not our custom websites because they go out of scope, because, you know, client want to keep making changes. But actually our base website, that's just a flat rate, we're able to turn those out and make that very pro. If you don't know these, then it's just. Dang. I keep selling and it seemed like I'm always on the edge. I never have. You got to put a plan in place. And unfortunately, like bookkeepers, we. I give this a lot of time. We think value, right? Hey, these are office supplies. Need me for that? You know, it's. It's pins and printer paper. What you need is. Hey, why do we keep spending so much on office supplies? Like doing what if? What. Okay, well. Oh, I want to do this. Okay. Why is our monthly tech at 5k when normally it said 2500? What did you purchase? Oh, well, I thought, you know what, like what we would tell our person, hey, let's send you a list of everything you've purchased since January 1st. And make sure you don't have any doubles in here or things you thought you would have Turned, uh, off. And it never fails. I thought I had turned this off and they're still charging me and all these things. So we just have to continue to communicate, help that person so that they fully understand that, yeah, I'm making money. But the business has needs and camera. The person has bills to pay and things of that nature. Most people are coming in again, hey, we make 50k or what we said a million. 85,000 is really 83,333.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I make 85k a month. That's. No, no, that's money. That's responsible running Cameron leader or an employee of the business. And let Kenley money stay Kinley money to do what it needs to do. But it's very hard for people, especially if you haven't made money, if you haven't come for money. If your family was just middle, like low middle class, or you feel like you broke, can you. Nobody in your family made five grand a month? Nobody. You may. Anybody. Unless you're in a business group that makes that much. So you don't know what to do. You're just happy. I just know I hit the bank account. I know I can go get whatever groceries I want. But you have to have that structure in place.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, I hear you. I was in that trap for a very long time because I'm like, you know what? I'm just gonna enjoy my money. I'm not. I kept brushing things under the rug, like, this is my chance to treat myself. Go out there and buy a 300 bottle of wine without any consequences. And, you know, things like that. And then afterwards, it definitely came back to haunt me. And I always just had to feel the pressure of I need to make more money. More money. So, um, this is funny because when my husband and I would have these money conversations and he'd be like, okay, we have this big goal. We gotta cut back on on these things. And I always tell him, but, babe, I'm so much better at making more money instead of. I'm not a cutting back person.

Speaker A: We got to jump into this. Okay.

Speaker B: Yeah. What is your advice?

Speaker A: So you typically. And in marriage, you typically have people like that, right? You got one person, the money person. One person is a saver. So this is going back to what I talked about, about learning the client. So see, if I were working with you, I would automatically know. Okay. I. I don't need to tell Carla to cut stuff. I need to point her making more money and tie it in to goals. That's going to work better for you. So, for example, if he's saying, like, hey, we're gonna go. We need to go buy with something that's worth a lot of money. Like, we need a whole new podcast set up. It's Gonna cost us 20 grand. He's probably gonna say, let's cut back on going out to eat, and da, da, da, da, da, so we can save up to get to 20. Carla, though, is gonna be like, I ain't trying to cut back on that because I like my tacos. So it's gonna want to say, why don't I just go get some more clients? So, A, we, as the cfo, need to know who you are on that scale. So. And we're gonna act like you're you. So. Okay. What I would do is say, okay, I see that. That's the goal. Well, remember, this is what we're averaging on profit and expenses. So, in theory, if we continue this for two more, even if we save X amount, you'll be able to get it. But I would feel a lot better if you were able to sign three more clients at your middle or higher package, because we know that those are profitable. That'll give you. It doesn't mess with what you have going on. They don't, um, know what's the difference between your five services? If we don't know which of the five are actually profitable versus which ones are time. If we don't know how you even think about money and spend it, then what's the easiest thing to do? Yeah, just, you know, cut out your Starbucks. Don't go out to eat for, like, the next two months. No, uh, you're a business owner. You've been blessed with the ability to go out there and make more. We just need to structure it and funnel that energy into certain areas of mindsets and targets. That's all we got to do. But people don't spend the time to do that. Or my favorite. They don't have somebody on their team or that they're working with them to clearly see that. It's just, well, I guess this is what I got to do. Or like you said, I think a little bit earlier in my head, I'm a figure it out. I'm spending money and deal with it later, then come around and you like, oh, no, I know.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. That has definitely bit my ass. And in the past, even when I was doing business in the Philippines, because our tax. Tax time is, uh, December and January. And, uh. But then it's also the time where you give everyone a bonus Like a year end bonus, things like that, 13th month pay. And, uh, I always tell my team, I'm so poor during Christmas, I'm so poor. And then. But I had like these credit cards. So I, I also had this mindset of, well, they're partying, I'm gonna party too. They're shopping, I'm gonna shop too. And it just put me in a, you know, come February, March, I'm like, ah, uh, just paying all these debts from December. But, um, it was obviously like a me problem. This is why I'm so grateful I found like a spouse who's so much better at money than me because I've made so many bad money decisions. Um, let's talk about the lifestyle creep. This is very common among entrepreneurs, especially those who have businesses that blew up pretty fast. Once the revenue comes in, suddenly there's a luxury car, there's trips, a bigger house. Uh, why does lifestyle creep kill businesses, like, faster than bad marketing?

Speaker A: That's a great question. I think the simplest answer, yeah, because they know their numbers. I think it's normal for us as humans to go, I'm making more money so I can afford bigger or better things, right? Yeah, that's normal. Like, what do most people. I'm making more money so I can go get a house, I can go get a new car, whatever that is. Yeah, that's normal. But I think as a business owner, what you have to remember is again, you still have a team, you still have tech, you still have other obligations. So this ties into what you were saying about having a budget. Hey, we can set a budget. Then all we have to do is look to the budget, do some math, and it'll tell us if we can or cannot afford it. If you can or cannot afford to hire that new person, if you can or cannot afford to get that brand new lap or take that raise or, or get those extra distributions. Like all of those answers are, uh, there in your financials. But again, if you just got a bookkeeper that just office supplies, they're not going to be able to think through that whole process and talk you through it and adjust it and adapt it to make it fit what you want. Their job is only to tell you it's in the right bucket. Yes or no, that's it. So I think to your point, you just have to partner with somebody that will hold you accountable on your numbers. And hey, I give you the permission to hold me accountable. Call me out. Uh, you know, we need to go through something. Let's set up a meeting. You have to have that. Now when you're at that 5k a month mark, like, bookkeeper's fine, but I'm talking about once we're over like 25k a month, bookkeeper's just not gonna cut it. I've seen it too many times. We see it every single week. You need the strategy in place. That's where all the gold is, the ability to schedule the calls. Hey, show me why does it feel like I'm not making enough money and I'm making 85 grand a month? Show me why I feel like I can't pay myself more or I'm making all this money and I don't see it in my bank account. That's our job to say, oh, well, look right here, you keep paying yourself $30,000 distributions with a 15k salary. That's why you don't know your money. Because, yeah, you, you made 35, but you took an extra 30.

Speaker B: Right, right.

Speaker A: But until you can paint that picture for somebody, to your point, I'm, um, just making my money.

Speaker B: Yeah, I like that. That kind of parameters that you said on, uh, the. At this point, the bookkeeper is good, but when you reach like 30k a month, you need a different type of financial expert to watch.

Speaker A: Think about what we started the podcast with, that you said, hey, if in my culture, we're typically cheap. Right, Right. Which somebody's going to say that who typically grew up, have some type of challenge with money. So if that's the case, you never made, uh, before, you realize 30 times 12 is 360,000. You've never made over a quarter of a million dollars before. So you got to elevate. Like, I'm not just making 80k a year or even 100k is 3 times that amount. So I have to approach this differently and I need to go get somebody who can help me to see it correctly and they can help kind of train me up until I can see it in the same at least basic form as them. Because to your point, you're just gonna have those same habits. You're going to view it the same. If you're like me. See, I like spending money because I have a lot growing up. So you said, go to what conference? Invest in a course, invest in a coach. For how much? That's a lot of money for me to get five clients to get to that. No, but we don't understand. That's how you skip a lot of the headache, the struggling, because you get to get with these coaches or these groups that, hey, all of them are making more than me. Well, what are you doing? You spend how much on what you got? How many team members, where? Oh, uh, you can find people and I can work with people in the Philippines. They don't have to be here. They cost how much per month and they still got masters. But that before that, you couldn't have told me. When I started, I was gonna have a US based office. Everybody in Atlanta.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: A nice little office.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: My whole entire team is in the Philippines. I would have never been able to tell you that though. Uh, yeah, get around people that open my mind to a different or maybe a more efficient and better way. And I was like, you know what, let me try this. I wouldn't know. I was scared, but I did it. And now my team, like, we're pretty strong, we're pretty good, and we just continue to grow.

Speaker B: Yeah, I love that. And same thing. I know. I remember having the, the business class, like, conversation with you too, when, uh, you know, I grew up poor too. And before I would just by default look at flights like, uh, in the economy. And then I met someone who I was like, oh, you've never been to Europe? And he said, oh, we should do this date. And he went on his phone and he was like, wow, it's 12,000 to go to Europe. And I'm like, what, what, what are you seeing? I'm um, it's only 3k for M. For me. What airline is that? And then it dawned on me. I was looking at economy and he was looking up business and first class. And that was just like his default. And uh, and it's crazy. So it is crazy when your wallet moves through life faster than you and your mindset is still like behind. And it's, it's tough, it's tough to get out of there. So I'm curious, like, it's so nice that you have detailed. What is the difference between hiring a bookkeeper and hiring people like you, uh, you guys call yourself like a fractional cfo. That's the, that's the service. Right? And your advice was it's really good to start talking to fractional CFOs. Um, when you're making at least 30k a month, this is when we can really make a difference for you and ah, we can guide you. What does it typically cost to hire a fractional cfo?

Speaker A: Okay, everybody. Typically prices different for the most part. There's two types. There's what we call value pricing, which is what we do. Like, I'm gonna give you A flat rate. It's my job to make it as profitable as possible, but that makes me work harder. Then there's a traditional per hour charge for every text, every phone call, every email. I hate tracking that. So. Yeah, but when you're talking about a fractional CFO service, you're looking at anywhere between probably for a great one, 1500 to 5K plus depending on the level of service, what you need, et cetera. So like for example, we just sold a package yesterday for 3k a month for a fractional CFO, but that client is making over 200k per month.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: So big company, big payroll, et cetera, been around for a while versus somebody else that was maybe on year two or three, you know, maybe they're making like, you know, 5:50 for the year. They're recognizing like I've never made 41k per month, I need help. Well then they're going to be a little bit different. They're probably closer to that 1500, 1600 because you don't have as much complexity. But we want to continue to grow with you over time. So uh, like we always say, if you're basically like 7, 8K and below, get a bookkeeper. Fine. You only need put it in bucket because you haven't truly shown proof of concept yet. I believe until you make 10k a month, you don't have proof of concept. You have made some sales.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: You know what you're doing, you're probably a great technician. You're not not solidified yet. But now there's that 1525 K, that's the sticky point. That's where I got proof of concept. But it's very hard to break out and I'm struggling because. Why? Because at this point, going back to your money mindset, I have enough money to pay my bills. I got plenty left over with all this profit. I'm not struggling anymore. I've done it. But then you've also the only one who's doing all the fulfillment too. So this is that hard part where they got to come see you and say I need to hire a VA or account rep or whatever, a client success manager, because I can't handle all these clients anymore and my email's blowing up and I'm working 12 hour days. So there's that segment. I wouldn't say you need fractional cfo, you can use us, but it's more like the controller or like really strong account basis that's in like your 750 to 1250 range. Right. We're not Going to go as deep.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: But you still need us because again, have you ever made 15k per month before? No. Now, once you hit that 30 and that's when you see people put the rocket ships on, then it's just a matter of time. They're going to scale a lot faster because we know what we're doing. We probably have two or three people, possibly, or at least contractors. And now I'm kind of understanding getting this thing rolling. So that's the people that need the cfo, um, the projections, the tax strategy. We need to set your goals for the year. What do you want to make? What are your goals to get there? How's your offer looking? What's your packages? What's your goal? Who's the next person that we need to hire to buy back your time? Those are those conversations at 5K a. Huh month. I don't need to give you no strategy. Guess what your strategy is? Make some more money.

Speaker B: Yes, exactly. Exactly.

Speaker A: So that's how we kind of tell people.

Speaker B: Yeah, I really love that. Thank you for breaking it down. Because I feel like the term fractional CFO is so intimidating and because a lot of entrepreneurs came into entrepreneurship on their own, building their business through bubble gum and duct tape. And it feels like, you know, wearing my dad's pants and uh, to, to think about hiring a fractional cfo. But when you break it down like that, especially the value of understanding your goals as a person, your personal goals. Why did you create this business? What is your future like? And if you're married, then there's two people owning the business too. Whether, even if you have a housewife, like, she is a part of that business too, because she is a part. Because that business is a huge part of your life and that could, you know, make or break your day. And she's a big part of your day. So I really, I really love that. Thank you for breaking that all down. I'm sure tons of people will now change how they view, uh, fractional CFOs. They're not just like scary auditors or something. They're not there to watch you, like how much sugar you're eating or something. But they're there to guide you get to your goal and for you to feel safe and vulnerable in sharing what you really want out of your business in the financial sense. So that's perfect. Thank you so much. So how about this? There are certain entrepreneurs, I don't know if you've met a lot of entrepreneurs, but I live here that are like this But I live in Playa del Carmen and this is a kind of a spiritual place. There's a lot of spiritual entrepreneurs, shamans, life coaches, Reiki healers. And um, uh, there's a, there's a phrase when I ask them about their business. There's a phrase that I always hear, but I hate hearing, which is, oh, you know what? I just run on intuition. Oh, uh, I don't really watch my books, watch my, I don't really do lead generation. I just run, I just run an intuition. So in your opinion, where. What are the first things that could go terribly if someone.

Speaker A: Okay, let's go here. Now. I'm big in my faith. Um, I guess I need to clarify because you said like seven different types. Uh, so I'm a Christian, so nothing like out of the ordinary there. But even in the Bible, right. There's a lot that talks about being a good steward. Like there's a lot of examples, right? Being a good steward, cultivating your have. So I think it's great that we may have the skill and talent to go out here and make money, but I think you still have to steward it because about, it's. It's no good. If you make 85k a month. Yeah, that's a million dollar run rate. But you spend 8 is, you spend 90. Well, uh, what you made because you spent it all and took out extra and now you're on a stripe loan for something crazy with this super high interest rate. And then you maxed out your three credit cards. So I think you can have a balance. I'm very big on like, you know, oh, Lord, like, help me to meet the right people, help me to make the right partnerships, help me to find people that I can actually help and serve because I know it'll all work itself out. But at the same time, I still have to put myself out there. I have to go to the conferences, I have to post the organic content, I have to actually get on sales calls. And you do have to sell yourself because of all the noise. And so there's a scripture in the Bible called. It's basically faith without works is dead. You can't have all the faith, but you'll be doing no work. You can't just do all the work. And I have no faith do both. So I think just in general, we're not going to knock what you believe in, all of those different things, but just know you as the owner, mind you. Owner. There's a difference between I have a business versus no, I am thinking like an Owner. I have a fiduciary responsibility to make sure that my team, whether they're in the Philippines, here, wherever, that they get paid. And in order for them to get paid, I have to charge X amount of money because they're the best. And I am now responsible for them and their families. And I have a family. I'm married with three kids.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And my wife will fall into that category, like you said, of being a stay at home mom. So I have to pay for certain things and you know, your mortgage, your rent, utilities, etc. So we have to charge a certain level because we know that we're not doing a base service. We're doing above and beyond extra strategy, check ins, you get your own slack channel. We're meeting with you every month or every quarter, whatever, tax strategy, all these different things you have to charge and know what your margins are. Hey, for every client, I should be making over $150 per hour. A lot of people don't. And like, we talk about that on one of my webinars. Like, you can think you're gonna laugh at this one because I know what you're gonna say. Oh, man, I make like $250 an hour. When we run those numbers, you're making like 85.

Speaker B: Oh, wow.

Speaker A: Super shocked. And they're like, I don't get it. You know, it's this, this and that. I'll give you an example. We had one client, she was like, cameron, I'm gonna do these webinars, but I don't know what offer to push. I'm like, all right, cool. Well, let's talk through the offers. She had like five of them. So we got it down to three. So there was a thousand dollar offer and a 5k offer. So you know what she said? What did she say, Carla? What did she pick?

Speaker B: The, uh, higher one.

Speaker A: Correct. She said, hey, I want to sell the 5k offer. I said, before you do that, let's talk through this.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: How many hours does it take for you to fulfill that 5K offer? Well, that's my big offer. It's probably going to take me like 30 to 40 outer 30 to 40 hours per month. Uh, between the team, me talking to the client, the whole nine. I said, okay, let's go to the thousand dollar offer. How many hours is that going to take you to fulfill? Oh, that's easy. I can do that one in my sleep. It only take me like two hours for the whole month and I can do that. I said, let's do the math. So I You're telling me if a normal month is 40 hours a week times um, 4, 160 hours. If we just, you know, and I did the math for. So we found out it was. She would make $500 an hour and can have more clients and have more brain space doing the thousand dollar offer versus if she had the fit, the 5k offer, she could only take a m. Max. Think about it. 40 hours a week, I can only have four of those clients. Yes, I'm making 20k. But you can't take off at all. Ain't no vacationing, none of that. Versus I can do that thousand dollar offer. She could have had like, I think it was like 60 clients and had time in between her week to go do whatever she wanted. So you have to paint that picture for people because we think bigger money. I'm um, I'm making more. Yeah, but you also at your computer and a slave to your desk more too. Yep. That's why I keep going back to and drilling. What is the most important thing that you want? What is your dream life if you're a traveler like this? Because me and you talk like you want to be in Mexico some of the time and be in the Philippines sometime. Well, I need to keep that in mind. How do we help facilitate that? How much money does she need for that? Can we write this off? Well, what is that? Like you got to go that deep with the client so that they can come along with you on a journey. And now I'm big bro. I'm big brother. I got you. I'm looking out for it. Hey, don't I, uh, know this tempting. Don't you do that.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Hire a person in the Q4. Remember we talked about last month? We're not hiring anybody because we want to see can our team, are they at capacity or do we still have some leeway before we have to hire another person? So remember, you can't. Don't you hire nobody until September 1st. Like you got to be able to do that. Uh, hopefully I answered your question.

Speaker B: Yeah, I know. I really, really love that because those traps like a new hire, a new thing, a new trip, a new conference. Sometimes as a business owner, uh, we are not seeing beyond the would be opportunity. Yes, there is an opportunity. You know, if I go to this conference, maybe I can get more clients. Maybe I can learn something. But I have definitely seen a lot of people just go into so many conferences thinking and saying this is a write off. This is a write off. And they're just like obviously enjoying Themselves and going on these vacations, Patience. And then they go back and they implement nothing, and they just kind of, like, tuck their tail in between their legs and like, oh, you know what? Next quarter, I'll do better. But this is why it's. It's awesome to get guidance, you know, like, you like a big brother type of guidance and. And tell you, hey, you know, this is not smart to. To do right now. Remember your goals. Remember your goals, because our emotions can really betray our goals, right? Like, if I'm feeling sad, it's so normal for me to just like, oh, you know what? This, uh, a night at the casino would help. You know, like, two gin and tonics. And a night at the casino would. Would be so enjoyable. Right now, uh, thankfully, I have not lost anything more than $300 at a casino night. That is my personal limit if I am. And then I also have a. I also have a principle of, uh, double up and leave. So even if I've been playing for only three minutes, if I magically, miraculously double up, I just leave. Um, and then I. I do something else. And I've. I've learned this because I lived in Vegas, and you need to have intense discipline, uh, if you love being in a casino. I live in Vegas, so. But, yeah, thank you so much for everything that you shared, Cam. I want everyone to follow you, to learn from you, and definitely to consider working with you. It's really not much, uh, in terms of what they get in return. Peace of mind, clarity in their books, the vision that, oh, my God, I can finally see where we're going. I can finally understand where every cent is. I'm not just in this doomsday thought of, will my business close? What if another pandemic happens? Is my employee stealing from me, blah, blah, blah, blah. So they need someone like you. How can people follow you? And what types of, uh, what types of ways can they work with you, uh, initially.

Speaker A: All right, well, thank you for having me again. This was fun. Uh, so, of course. Cameron Williams, Kenley Consulting. You can just go to Kenley consulting dot com. So that gives you a little bit of what we do and who we are. If I were you, though, I would just find me on Facebook, because every day, we're posting content. A lot of these things that you're hearing me and Carla talk about, we just turn it into content. Hey, if you're responding like this, do this. Hey, is this you? Hey, do you self identify here? Well, then change these things. So I think if nothing else, you'll get a ton of value just by following us on Facebook and socials. Uh, so it's Cameron with the C. Um, on socials, you can go on YouTube. So we're posting a lot of those video content on there. Uh, so that's just Kinley consulting. That's on YouTube. And of course we got the Tick tock the Instagram, so you can find us there too. But, um, that would be the best way to reach out just through Facebook. Um, if you want to send. Can we put emails on here because.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, we can share your email as well. But.

Speaker A: Okay, so Cameron C A M M E r o n@kinley k y n l I consulting.com and that'll come straight to me. My team will probably see it before me, but we're just here to help serve you guys, uh, and do the best we can to help the people that we work with. Again, we know we're not the perfect fit for everybody. We're not trying to be. But the people who we do work with, we just want to serve you at a really high level. Again, be that big brother, you know, big cousin, and just make sure that you get where you want to go. Well, we have to do some deep work. Yes. Well, I have to ask you some questions so I can learn you and your spending habits and how you view money and why you don't want to spend money or the opposite. Yes. But every client we have, they always say, oh, uh, man, this is so good. I never thought about this. I would have never even thought about it to that level. Because they now have the data. There's no guesswork.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I love that. Just like my favorite principle in outsourcing, you guys created your business because you love something in it. You love serving the people and you love providing that type of solution. The things that make you not love your business, just like the day to day tasks that bog you down, outsource it. Not understanding your money. You started your business to make more money, to make profit, but now you don't understand it. Hire someone like Cameron, it will really make your life better and most of all, it will really make you love your business again. So thank you so much for hanging out with us and thank you so much, Cameron and you guys. I will drop Cameron's links and email on the show notes, so please check that out. At least give him a follow on Facebook. I follow Cameron on Facebook. He posts a, uh, lot of really good information about money in business, especially if you own a fully online or location independent business. He provides a lot of awesome content on that. So thank you so much guys and see you next week for another episode of NONE of your Business. Bye.

Speaker C: M.

Speaker B: So it's a wrap to my entrepreneur friends. I hope that you found this episode interesting and enjoyable. I know I did. Big thanks to our sponsor, Proximity Outsourcing for making this possible. If you need to outsource anything in your business so you can scale fast and easy, visit proximityoutsourcing.com and check out their solutions. If there's any topic that you want to request, feel free to reach out. I only have two conditions. You tell me why you find it interesting and you promise it's not business talk. Find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube and leave us a comment or review because you're cool like that. This is your host, Carla, and thank you so much for joining me. Thank you for your interest in fun stories. Now we can get back to business. See you next week. And remember, everything here is none of your business.