On Self Confidence and Self Esteem with Ray and Laura Blakney

Speaker A: I think he didn't believe that and I think that was the first thing he needed to hear. And also to hear that, uh, the, that Raymond was not his business person. Yeah. What he's explaining. Right. That he was more than the business. And there were list of a, uh, hundred things that he is before his business and he needed to realize that. Of course I gave him the time to cry, to feel bad because he needed that. That I, I didn't understand up to a point. Right. Uh, there was a point that. Okay, you.

Speaker B: Three weeks just to interrupt. You give me three weeks to cry

Speaker C: and feel bad for myself on your calendly. She put it on your calendar.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker D: Entrepreneurs love talking about business. However, it's no secret there's also so many things they love talking about which are not about business. In the sea of business podcasts, none of your Business is a refreshing break. A, uh, surprise kiss, an afternoon fizz. Through Carla Singson's cheeky and radical takes on mundane and principle heavy topics, you'll gain insights that guarantee you something to talk about on your first Tinder date while visiting grandma. Or if you want to impress your new client. Big thanks to Proximity Outsourcing for sponsoring this episode. Outsource the most tedious marketing and management tasks in your agency for less than $15 an hour. Fully manage. When you're tired of hiring cheap, unreliable talent. Check out proximityoutsourcing.com for more info. Tired of business podcasts? Tune in to none of your Business new episodes monthly.

Speaker C: All right, good morning and welcome to another episode of none of youf Business. Today I have a few of some of my closest friends here in Playa del Carmen. I'm really excited to talk to them. One of them I've spent a lot of time talking about Filipino stuff because he's part Filipino. But today I'm going to introduce them to you and we have a very, very meaningful discussion today about self esteem and self confidence. Not everyone identifies as, uh, self confident. And so this conversation, I hope, will give a lot of you guys, a lot of you listeners insight on what this really means and how it compares to self esteem and basically, hopefully will give you a lot of self reflection. You know, sometimes you think of confidence as like the only way to make money or the only way to succeed in life, but that's not, there's no really one path to those things anyway. So some of my, uh, two best friends here in Playa del Carmen, they're both entrepreneurs. Over the past 18 years, Ray Blakeney, a Filipino American entrepreneur, and his Wife, Laura Ramirez Blakeney, a Mexican born language educator. They've built over 20 profitable companies. They've sold four of them and taken multiple to multi seven figure successes including the global language learning platform LiveLingua. Combining race expertise in launching and scaling high growth businesses with Laura's mastery of curriculum design and teacher training, they've taught thousands of students worldwide. Their newest venture, Online Schoolbuilders.com helps experts turn their knowledge into thriving online schools. So, good morning and welcome. Ray and Lara. How are you today?

Speaker B: Good. Hey Carla.

Speaker A: Good. Hi Carla.

Speaker C: So that, that you got like a crazy journey building 20 businesses and you know, exiting some of them, selling some of them. I gotta ask you both separately, what is or what was your favorite business among the 20? No judgment.

Speaker B: Lara goes first.

Speaker C: Okay, Lara, you go first.

Speaker A: Uh, well, for me it's always an was and it's going to be about teaching. So it's the school we started, the physical school. I think that's for me the one that has been the most personally and professionally, uh, challenge, but also passionate about it.

Speaker C: I love it. What about you, Ray?

Speaker B: Yeah, so my answer is not going to be an easy one. I actually am not attached to any of the businesses. I actually just like building things. So like, which business was the one I found the most meaning in all of them and none of them depending on what you want. Um, I jokingly say I would build an online school to train donkeys if I thought it was a good school idea and do it right. Like it's not. That's not the point. It's the building that's the fun part.

Speaker C: Yes, that's very uh, um, politically diplomatic. It's like, which among your kids is your favorite? And you're like, I love them all.

Speaker B: Oh, Aaron's our favorite kid. But it's easy for us to answer that. We only have one. So we don't have to be diplomatic.

Speaker C: Exactly.

Speaker E: Yeah.

Speaker C: Oh my gosh, it's funny. And you guys are quite the pair. It's like you. I cannot imagine this going in the same way if you guys didn't have each other. So tell, uh, me a little bit about how you started your first business together. And did that scare you or did that make you excited? Like, what was it like?

Speaker B: I can take the first stab at it. Um, I've told the story before. So when Laura and I, our first business was a brick and mortar language school in Mexico. And when we started it, we had about $2,000 in our bank account that was to live off of to start our school. And market everything right. We were so young and ignorant that we didn't know to be scared, I think, was kind of the point. Yeah, let's just see what happens and go and launch a business. Because, you know, obviously I'm a computer programmer and she's a teacher. We obviously should be launching businesses because that has nothing to do with what we actually done before. So we started doing. We launched it, and I guess we just got lucky. It was profitable within 30 days, and we made the first few people paid us enough money to actually furnish our school because we didn't have enough money to actually buy the furniture. And, yeah, within 90 days, it was a profitable business and we were off and running. Luckily, our first two businesses worked. So that time I was like, wow, this whole business thing's easy. I'd never read a business book in my life. And I was like, why do people even bother studying business? Because this is really. Then we failed a whole bunch more afterwards. I started, of course, at the time I did, I. I didn't know any better. So I think that would kind of be the best way to describe it. We were blissfully ignorant with the knowledge that we're blessed, that we have loving parents, um, and we knew we had the skill sets, right? Like, you know, I'm an engineer, she's a teacher. So worst case scenario, it doesn't work. We close it. We move back in with our parents for a month or two and eat some humble pie, and then we get some jobs. So, like, you know, this is before we had kid and all that.

Speaker C: So I think that's the fascinating thing about being an entrepreneur. We just live a very different life from, uh, people with jobs. And it's funny to say, but also very privileged to say that, you know what my worst case scenario is getting a job. Because especially the economy right now, a lot of people are getting laid off. A lot of people are having trouble making ends meet, and their worst case scenario is very, very different. So what about you, Laura? As an educator, as a teacher? Um, have you always thought or wanted to start a business or you just want to be a teacher?

Speaker A: Uh, that's a good question. Um, my passion is teaching, that's for sure. But I had. When I met Raymond and we started the school, probably I already had been teaching for eight years or so. So for me, having a school was kind of like the next logical step. So, uh, because I already had experience not only teaching, but also the administrative side, so having the school for me was the next one. And he was the Technical side, I was the academic side. So I think that's why when he said we believe on what we knew already, um, and we didn't have a lot of competence, another school against us was not there at all. So I think that's, that's what. It also made us be the number one in the city. Right?

Speaker C: Exactly. Yeah. Because do you remember how a lot of like college professors were like, oh, I'm kind of done with business, I want to go to teaching. Like uh, even me, like when I retire from like having to work or like have like right now we're working towards our retirement. But when I'm retired from having to work, having to make active income, I want to go back to like teaching. I want to, I want to teach. And it seems like two different personalities sometimes, but you guys, you guys have both in, in the same pair in, in the same business. And I think that is a lot of kind of self trust. Which brings us to our topic today on self confidence and self esteem. So I want to start with you, Ray, and your story. So you've shared that you used to have really high self confidence, but then your business journey revealed some cracks in your self esteem. Can you take us into that moment? What happened and how did you realize there was a difference between the two?

Speaker B: Sure. Um, the realization is actually relatively new. So like I didn't realize during this journey. I'll put a caveat on there. I still have very high self confidence. You know, that's, that's not a thing. Um, but until recently I thought self confidence and self esteem were almost exactly the same thing.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: If you had asked me, I even just like six months ago if they were the same, I'd been like, yeah, yeah, they're kind of the same. Uh, but then one of my mentors, Lar and I mentors actually, uh, said no. He's like, do you know what the difference is? And he kind of described it to me and in that moment it clicked. And the way he described self confidence versus self esteem is self confidence is the belief you can do anything.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: And self esteem is the belief that you don't have to. And once he gave me that, I was sitting there like, oh, right. Self esteem means I'm good enough even if I don't.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker B: Well, self confidence is totally based on your actions and what you're doing in the time. And that means it is something very different. And as an entrepreneur, a lot of us have self confidence because that's why we launch businesses and we believe we can do things. But then we tie our entire self definition to being that entrepreneur, to being that successful entrepreneur. And all of our self confidence is based on that image. And if somebody takes that away, then we're kind of stuck there. Like, wait, what am I left with if I'm not a successful entrepreneur? Like what am I like, who am I like, am I still worthy of whatever it is you think you're worthy of? And with what happened I guess two years ago now, a little, little under that, like that actually is what I realized. Um, that I had very high self confidence. I had it before, I have it now again. But it was the self esteem that I had to work or work my way through because I, I was my success in business, like that's how I define myself. And scammers and criminals took that away and suddenly I was like, wait, I'm not that. And it's not good for your mental health, you know, they are not good for your mental health.

Speaker C: Absolutely. Yeah. Not a lot of our listeners may know, but to make the long story short, a ago both Ray and Laura had a bad experience with a bad partnership. And it really, you know, drove you guys to kind uh, of like a dark place. Right. I remember it was a, it was a difficult time for your family. Lara, as you know, race partner and seeing him go through that because I know as a wife and uh, as like the woman in the partnership, our, our hardships are different from, from the guys. Like the man's hardships. How did you support him? How did you build his self esteem, uh, back up and what were some of the advice or some of the realizations that you were able to make him take? Uh, as an insight?

Speaker A: I think for me the experience was different only because the same m. Mexican and you know, the Latino culture were very family centered and women per se were taught to be the ones that have nurture the family and doesn't matter if it's your dad, but it's everyone in the family. Uh, so when that happens for me was very natural to nurture him again.

Speaker C: Uh-huh.

Speaker A: Just to tell him that he was safe because he was saved physically.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Uh, I think he didn't believe that and I think that was the first thing he needed to hear and also to hear that uh, he was the, that Raymond was not his business per se. That's what he's explaining. Right. That he was some more than the business. And there were at least of a hundred things that he is.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Before his business. And he needed to realize that. Of course I gave him the time to cry, to feel bad, because he needed that, that I, I didn't understand up to a point. Right. Uh, there was a point that.

Speaker B: Okay, three weeks just to interrupt. She gave me three weeks to cry and feel bad for myself.

Speaker C: M. On your calendar. She put it on your calendar.

Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. And also, um, to understand, ah, for him, Hm. To understand that that was not the end of the world and the job that you're going to get is not going to be the less paid for sure. Because all the experience he was bringing to the table, uh, it's more for him. I think that was something I was telling him and I think that's more for the. I'm going to say the Mexican way is we are faithful, we believe on faith. Right. Something that, for probably Raymond was not the same case. Uh, so have faith on himself. It was something that he needed to work. Uh, and also faith on the future. They are none. Um, right. I think as an entrepreneur, we, we really, we always wanted to have that control under our wing. And it's not always possible. So let him know that it's okay, you know, to have the control and if what happens, it happens. And I think the most important is to be, in a way ready for anything that happens. And uh, that happened to us and that's it. And we were like you say, we were very privileged still. We had a house that we had bought for seven years before that happened. We have family, we have a newborn. Uh, that was something that we fought a lot to have him with us. So we had new, uh, other ways to survive. And I said to survive. It was not very survival because we had a lot, but for him was hard to see it. So just to listen to repeat and repeat, to go out and be in nature, I think that's also that, uh, help him a lot. Right. And be patient. Uh, I'm a teacher. It's part of my, my passion, but also part of my personality probably as well. So that, that helped me to support him and also me to have other women around me, my mom, my sister, et cetera, that I can vent with, um, without having to talk to him about it. Right.

Speaker C: Yeah. I really. I want to highlight something that you said that, um, you know, you saw that your husband was more than just like a money bringer, a breadwinner to the family. Right. You're so many things, like you're a dad, you're a friend, you're a son, you're a dishwasher. Don't forget that, Ray.

Speaker B: Uh, a really good one.

Speaker C: I'm not insulting my friend, by the way. To our listeners, we have an inside joke.

Speaker B: Because my fallback plan, Ray has a

Speaker C: secret, not so secret YouTube, uh, called the Zen of dishwashing. But, uh, it's his meditative. Meditative activity for me is cooking. Um, but I think that conversation is actually very important, Laura, because depression rates and suicide rates in men are pretty high compared to women. Right. And it's because the society expects a lot from them in terms of like, making money and putting that value to be their only value. A lot of content and media right now about hypergamy, about telling men should provide all the time. If he can't provide, don't date him. Don't do 50 50. Like a lot of these things. Like, I. I appreciate some of the messages in a way, but sometimes it also takes it too much that I honestly, I think some of these messages are so abusive, are so abusive towards men. And, uh, so I'm happy that you, you really share that. And I wanted to highlight that for our, uh, listeners especially. So, um, how to you, Ray, like, thinking about Laura, your wife, your partner, um, and when she made you realize about your self esteem, can you help us understand how you personally experience that difference? Was there like a. A particular moment of shift that you remember?

Speaker B: Yeah. So the short answer is like, that particular moment. No, it's, you know, it is a process.

Speaker C: Uh-huh.

Speaker B: So it isn't just like, light bulb goes off and suddenly you realize it. Right. Like, it was like going from the worst part of the depression kind of to where we were. If you would ask me how long it was, like, mentally and emotionally, I would have said years. It was probably three or four months. But m. Like, when you're in it, it was just like, there's nothing else going on. And it also made me a lot more empathetic to people who suffer from this in the long term because I'm like, wow, three months of it. And it was the worst time in my life. And, you know, some people just, like, live with this on a regular basis. Um, a few things that kind of. So the realization of self confidence versus self esteem, you have to. I had to get to a better place before I was even in a headspace to contemplate that.

Speaker E: Right, right.

Speaker B: The first thing you have to do is trying to kind of get it out. In our case, there were external triggers for my depression. It wasn't just like spontaneous. It wasn't a physiological thing. They were like, external, you know, um, yeah, they haven't gone to jail yet. Alleged criminals. Right. I mean there's a lot of lawsuits against them. So alleged criminals that were causing this whole thing. Right. So the first step we have to do is like get out from under it, which is in our case, like get control of the company back, all the rest of it. Laura helped me at least process that because when you're in the middle of it, like everything was so emotional that I couldn't do any processes and she pulled me out and generally I'm much more of an intellectual, not very an emotional guy. So she had to kind of like, okay, so what are we going to do? And I'm like, I don't want to do this, I don't want to do this. And then she'd like put on a teacher. We had actually not whiteboards, those little like, you know, paper post it notes. But like the big ones. The ones, right?

Speaker C: Yeah. One of those like calendar. Yeah.

Speaker B: And we would do flowcharts and plans. And she's like, now what are we going to do? And now what are we going to do? And she would write it down. I'm like, oh, we just can do this. We're m going to do this. Like I didn't want to at all. Right. But like she's like pulled it out of me. And eventually I was able to kind of quiet down the emotional side of the mind because my intellectual side was taking over again, which is what you need that kind of helps pull you out of it. So that took a few months, um, until we actually solved the initial stressor the realization happened. I would even say six to 12 months later because you know, first there's a recovery time afterwards and then you start thinking about why did that happen? Because now you're looking at from an outsider and you're looking back and you're looking at it objectively. It's not just, uh, you're not emotional about it anymore. It's like, you know, I don't know if you were picked on as a kid and you're 40. Like you're probably. Most of us are not like just hopefully not reliving that like being picked on as 12 year old anymore. Like we can look back at more objectively. And then I met our mentor whose name's Dr. Bob Wright. And he's the one who actually, you know, I was talking to him a little bit about it. He's like, oh, you have the self confidence, self esteem problem. And I was like, wait, what are you talking about? And then he's the one who Actually gave that definition.

Speaker C: Wow.

Speaker B: Oh, that's absolutely. Um, and so now between us, like, I'm so the dichotomy in Laura and I, and I think we touch on it sometimes, I have very high self confidence and probably lower self esteem. She has very high self esteem and sometimes lower than she needs self confidence in her experience. Right. So that's. In that way we balance each other out. But there's like, reasons behind it and like how we were grown up and our environments that kind of, kind of pushed us in these directions. So I'm working on separating, um, my value more from the business, from entrepreneurship, from what, you know, let's say, admiration, my peers, all that kind of stuff. I'm trying to separate my value from that while she has all of that separated. And she needs to realize he actually has more of that and like, more confident in what she needs. And we're both kind of working on that, trying to meet somewhere in the middle.

Speaker C: Right. I love that. Um, super funny coincidence. Uh, Dr. Bob Wright recently, ah, became our client. Very smart guy. Very, very smart.

Speaker B: Uh, I'll call with him tomorrow.

Speaker C: Yeah. So such a small word when you said Dr. Barbara. Yeah, he also, he also said something to me that also made me think, um, I'll share that with you later. But, ah, I love what you shared about, like, you, you guys, like, as, as partners trying to balance each other out. Um, I want to quickly discuss, um, both of your insights on one word that you mentioned a few times in your last, um, you know, in the past few minutes, which was depression. Uh, what were the signs for you for depression? How do you know when you're depressed? And also, I want to get, uh, Laura's answer because this moment is very pivotal, but also very different for each person.

Speaker B: You're right. Um, so. Absolutely right, Carla. And it'd be interesting to hear Laura's perspective because she actually depressed before I did.

Speaker E: Wow.

Speaker C: Really?

Speaker B: I was not the one who called it depression, um, because I had never been depressed before. So, like, I've never had depression before. I had no idea what was going on. I can tell the symptoms for me, and I've spoken to other people about it, and they do vary by person. Right. So there's not like, this is. This is depression. Everybody feels exactly this way. Right. For me, the first signs were I no longer wanted to do things I normally love to do. Like, I really, I teach, you know, Japanese fencing. I love it. I've been doing it for 20 years. I did not want to go and practice, like, barely could get myself out of the to do it. The only reason I did it is I think I'm the teacher at the school. Like if I don't go, there's no class. If there wasn't, I would have probably missed it the entire time. I would not have gone, um, going to work out. Not that I love it, but it's part of my habit and I just would. Couldn't get myself to go to the gym in the morning. Even the worst one, like computer games, which is my release. I didn't even feel like playing computer games. Like I did not want to. And I'm m just like, wait, that's wrong. Like what's going on here? Like that was going on. Plus sleepless nights. Like to me that was the thing. I'd wake up at 1 o' clock in the morning and I'd be up for the rest of the night. Like my mind wouldn't go off. I think worst case scenarios it's got. I know now it's called uh, rumination and it's kind of thinking case scenario scenarios. I had never heard of it before until I was like, what is this? I would be. I was like on Google. This was pre jab GPT. It was like two years ago in ancient times. So I was like on Google and I'm like, what is going on? I'm like it's 2:00 in the morning, I can't go to bed. And then uh, I just couldn't find it. I was looking for like medical reasons, like.

Speaker C: Right, right.

Speaker B: And then Laura was the one who brought it up that you're depressed. You need to go talk to a therapist. So I'll pass it to Laura with that.

Speaker C: Yeah. What about you, Laura? What? Or, or maybe a personal experience also.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Do Mexicans get depressed or just curate with tequila? I'm just kidding.

Speaker A: No. Yes, I think so. I think for Mexican the difference is this again is culture we are used to to be with family. And we always have someone to bend with a cousin or you know, a tita, Tito, a grandpa, grandma, someone is around us. Even uh, sister. I know friends that we consider sisters and brothers as well. I think we always surround like that. And I think it's very different from women to mendo. That's for sure. The role is where it changed. But for me, I think the way I re I did knew with their Raymond was because I was also depressed before uh, with our son when he was born. That's a normal thing after you get postpartum depression. Postpartum Depression. And my mom was the one that pointed out for me the way I was reacting, the way I was acting out things was not normal. So. And that was what Raymond was doing with. With widows. It was different the way he did it, because he's a different person. His personality is very different. But that. Exactly what he's saying. He doesn't want to do, uh, he doesn't want to go to exercise or do things that he really enjoy. He look, uh, sad all the time and almost to the point to cry and. And he didn't want to wake up, like, you know, get up and do things in the morning. And he's usually. He's a morning person. So those were the things that, uh, point me that he was on, um, on depression. Right?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: It's really important to kind of, like, see. See that from. From the people that are very close to us because, like, what happened to you guys, like, you clocked it. You clocked it before he was able to realize it. For me, when I experienced depression, uh, I think I was far gone, actually. Um, but it was when I stood up and I didn't know how to tie my hair. Um, uh, it was a very weird experience. This was when my mom passed away. Of course I was sad, depressed, crying. But I didn't know that I was truly, truly depressed until I stood up and I looked at my hand and my wrist had, like, my scrunchie like this. And I was just looking and I was like, my brain is like, okay, now tie your hair. And then I couldn't do it. It was a very weird experience. It's like sleep paralysis, but you're awake. And then, um, my best friend that time, she was living with me, she was staying with me because she knew I'd be depressed, and she knew it would manifest in some way, but that it was. She also knew would manifest in a very weird way. Because I'm generally just like Ray, a very happy, outgoing person. And growing up Filipino, I kind of had that mix, just like your Mexican, like, so stories. Laura, we have faith. We believe in God. God will take care of us. I have my family. I have my siblings. And so, you know, depression could manifest very, very, very differently for different people. So I think the lesson here is, you know, pay more, closer attention to your loved ones and. And talk to them and. And support them. So, so many of our listeners right now, even if they're not depressed, they could be, like, questioning themselves. So for both of you, and I'm gonna start with Laura, what would you Both say to the person who feels like they've lost themselves because their business or their life isn't going the way that they hoped

Speaker A: for me is always to. That's the way I do it is to talk to another person aloud. The other person doesn't have to give me any answers.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker A: Because I'm not. I may ask questions, I may not, but I just want to talk aloud. And by doing that I hear myself saying what I'm thinking and then most of the time I will find the answer that I'm looking for or I will understand what is going on and why I'm thinking in that way. Uh, or what is the situation. Right. Uh, usually I do this with my mom and my mom is pretty good at it. She, she asks questions or follow up with me, etc, but I can do it with any. Just, I just need them to hear me out that I just did it this morning with Raymond because I'm kind of one with the school of my son's school, uh, and I needed just to bend to say it aloud, how I feel, etc. I didn't, I was not looking for an answer, uh, from him, but I was just looking for someone to hear me. And I think that's very important. And I do understand some people, they don't like to do that, uh, to talk to other persons. But probably you can do it by saying that aloud to your phone and then hear it yourself. I think it's also important just to put what you have in here outside it m. Makes you feel better. I don't know.

Speaker C: That's good advice.

Speaker A: No. Uh, but sometimes you feel something here, something is stuck. If you take it out of your system, I think that also helps.

Speaker C: Yeah, I agree. What about you, Ray? What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker B: So at least for me, because you know, both Laura and I can caveat it. We are not therapists or experts in the topic. Right. Just because you've gone through something made you like, don't think we're WebMD. Right. I'm like, you know, I don't know. You know, I've just, we've been through it. Uh, the thing that helped me the most was asking for help. Honestly, I remember this goes more towards the guy side of thing because, you know, especially from before, I was not the guy who asked for help. I was the guy people ask help from. So like, there was a big ego block that I had to get over to start doing that. But you reach out for help and I was surprised when I, when I did it. First, who and how many people said yes? Sometimes the people you expect to say yes, don't, which is kind of surprising. Some people you like, barely know. We'll just go the extra mile for you. It's. It was. That was kind of an interesting epiphany for me. Um, but nobody was like, you know, mad or anything like those. I didn't have any bad experiences. It was just some people's like, I can't. I'm not in the place to do it. Whatever. Whatever is there.

Speaker C: Um,

Speaker B: and secondly, it also. A lot of people came up to me afterwards, men specifically in this case, and said, yeah, I've been there before, too. Which is why I've started talking openly about this. As you know, Carl, I've spoken in front of hundreds of people and on stage about this topic. Now, this is way more common than we think. Like, way more common. But there's a social stigma, and I know a lot of your listeners in the Philippines, so, like, yeah, I know in the Philippines there's a big social stigma. If you're depressed, there's something wrong with you.

Speaker C: Yeah, right.

Speaker B: Like, it's not that you need help. It's like something's wrong with you. And that's absolutely not the case like that. It's not your fault, per se. It's. It's a thing. We're humans, we go through it and it's the time where we need people to help us. Like, we don't need. Everything's going well. That's not the time we need help. Like, this is the time we need help. And as a society, as humans, this. That should be. Instead of you pushing them away and saying there's something wrong with you is like, take them in and listen to them and provide whatever support you can. Like, you know, it's not your job to fix them. One person's not going to fix them.

Speaker A: Um,

Speaker B: but help them in any little way you can. It's like, meet them for a coffee and listen. Like, you know, I think a lot of people help me that way, especially because with Laura, I was just repeating the same, like, stress over and over. Like, every. She can only listen to me complain about the same thing so many times. Right.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Go out. Um, the one caveat I'll put in place is you need to have, like, this friends or this network in place before all of this happens.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: You can go look for friends while it's happening, prepare for it, build your network, and then you're able to get.

Speaker C: Yeah. And to add to that also, like, Build goodwill. Build goodwill with these people first. Right. Um, I really believe, obviously I have an advantage. I'm an outgoing, extroverted person. It's very easy for me to make friendships. Not everything or not everyone will be like a deep friendship that, you know, I can like leave my puppy with them or something. Um, what was that? Uh, two, two beers and a puppy. Do you know that test? Um, like you. One of the, one of the tests that you can see if you could be friends with someone is if you could out of nowhere share two beers with them, basically good conversation, or if you could leave your puppy with them. So two beers and a puppy is like a test. Um, but anyway, yeah, build uh, goodwill with people around you also because someday you might either you will actually save someone's life or you could save your own life because now you have friends that support you. So I really like those, uh, pieces of advice. Um, for the people that you guys, you've had all of this experience. The people that you guys are working now, they're all executives, mostly executives. Right. And these, um, are what most people would think are high confidence and high self esteem people. Can you tell us a little bit about how you do business with these people? And what would most people be surprised about, uh, learning about the type of clients, the high power executives that you guys work with.

Speaker B: I'll get started, give Laura a little more time to think. Yeah. Um, so high powered and quote unquote successful executives are probably not as different from you as you think. Um, that's the first thing I'll put out there. Like all of the self doubt, all of the worries that you have, they, I will 99 guarantee, have exactly the same ones.

Speaker E: Right.

Speaker B: Like it's not like suddenly I have a CEO on my nameplate on my desk now, now all of it's almost that worry disappeared. Like imagine disappeared. The biggest difference between I have found with like quote unquote successful leaders and not is their ability to take action on things. Right. Because they take action despite the self doubt and don't let the self doubt stop them. That is probably the biggest thing that I see in the leaders we work with and the leaders I have a privilege of interacting with as friends and around the world. Right. It's, oh, I'm not sure if that's going to work. I'm gonna do it anyway and see what happens. While most people's like, I'm not going to do it, I'm not sure, you know, are they gonna say, I'm not sure it's gonna Work. I better not do it. A high powered executive, like, I'm not sure it's gonna work. I'm gonna do it anyway. Like that is really the key difference between the two.

Speaker C: Right, right. I really like that. What about you, Laura? Uh, Laura, anything you want to add to that?

Speaker A: I think it's mostly what he has said. I think the only thing that I may add is you or make it with more details that Raymond said is people had the same doubts that the regular people, that's for sure. Uh, and sometimes they need the same amount of people pushing them or guiding them step by step. They, they are also looking for step by step, uh, instructions, that's for sure. There's no like, oh, I had, I got it. And then suddenly they know what to do. No, they also looking for people to guide them.

Speaker C: Guide them, uh, for sure.

Speaker A: So it's not only that they are the guy, the people that guides to others, but they also want to be guided. They also want to be uh, supported by other people. I mean they're just humans like us. They just have more experience probably and know knowledge. They have the knowledge sometimes, sometimes they don't know how to put their knowledge outside. So that's why they need these people to guide them. Like, okay, this is the information you need and then we're just going to organize that what you think and then they go and apply. Right. But it's the same thing that when you're starting something, they need guts.

Speaker C: Yeah, I like that, I like that. So everyone needs guidance. Everyone uh, goes through the same doubts. And the thing that really makes a difference is one, if they take action and number two is if they're guided by the right people. So let's talk about how you guys brainstorm this business idea. So you have this school, online School Builders. I'm gonna uh, link your website in the description if any one of you guys wanna check this out. If you have a friend who's a CEO, a business owner who wants to turn their knowledge or their expertise into an online school. Ray and Laura has a very, very good support program, mentorship membership that helps them build and grow their online school in 90 days or less. So this is a very, very good turnover because let me tell you guys, as a fellow educator, a course owner, a coach and a mentor in the past, my doubts definitely took more than 90 days. Took more than 90 days out of my life. And that wasn't a good experience. How did you guys brainstorm this idea? And uh, what was the aha moment?

Speaker B: Yeah, so it was Organic. Because Laura and I, you know, we were Talking about those 20 plus businesses we built, most of them like, you know, outside of that chocolate factory based out of Bohol. That was like an off, off offshoot there. Um, but most of them were schools. And we started. People started approaching us and asking us like, hey, I want to take my knowledge and want to move it online. And a lot of people confused it with like, oh, I want to get start a coach. You want to be a coach or you want to do digital courses? And initially, when Lara and I were brainstorming it, we're like, no, that's not quite right. But we couldn't quite figure out how to describe it because we're like, no, we've never actually built a digital course business. Like, that's not what we teach people how to do. It's also not a coaching business because that's not what we've been doing. So what is it exactly that we've been doing? And I can't even remember who said it, but somebody at the conference like, yeah, you guys built schools. And we're like, yeah, yes, we do. That's exactly what we do. And I'll describe kind of what the difference is between, like, a school versus a course business and a coaching business, at least the way that we view it. Course businesses are generally 100% digital. You know, I record videos, you pay 500 to a few thousand dollars. You go through this, if you're lucky, there might be a little, like, community where you can ask some questions. But generally there's like, no teacher that's there other than the person giving the video. So let's call it 100 digital on one end. On the other end is a coaching business, which is, I am paying for your time, Carla. I'm paying for you. I'm not paying for your knowledge. I'm actually paying for you. Because if you gave me another person, I'd be like, no, I'm not paying them.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: You know, Jane came around and you're like, no, no, no, I'm not your coach. It's Jane. And they're like, no, give me my money back. I paid for Carla. Problem with the coaching businesses is they can't scale because it's your trading time for money, right? Like, right, it's you, and I charge extra hour and you're done. Course businesses used to be amazing, and now there's AI, where knowledge is becoming entirely commoditized. Like, and I'm not surprised if, heck, by the time this podcast goes live or at the very least one or two years, we can all go. And they're like, give me a full digital course on how to bake the perfect chocolate cake. And like, uh, it'll do the videos, it'll do the material and all of it for you. And you hit enter and you're done. Right. Um, so you're not gonna be able to sell that or if you sell it, it's gonna be like a dollar, two dollars. So like that business model of digital only is gonna die. So what is the middle ground between those two things? And we realized that's what we've been doing all this time. Because when you build a school, two things happen. First off, there are still human, there's still human interaction. What you're selling your knowledge, not you. Right. So like it's, you can take your experience, you need to using some, you know, Lara's expertise and put it in some kind of cohesive educational curriculum or something like that. Because trust me, as a non teacher in the beginning I would just shotgun the information out. Like, here you go, figure it out. Yeah, that is, it's not helping anybody.

Speaker D: Right.

Speaker B: Like they can't figure any of that stuff out. So you have to go and do that and then you can train other people to pass that knowledge on. Because the model we built online school builders around is what we call the CAC factor. And not for you marketers out there with the cac, it's a different C. It's clarity, accountability, connection. Um, and the job of a good school is to provide clarity. And clarity is going to be clarity of where you're going, how you're going to get there and where you are now. So those are the three points of clarity you need to work on. So you'd like, where's the student starting, where do they want to end up and how are you going to get them there? That's one accountability, which means you have to keep them accountability to stay on the path. Because we all know this. Like the knowledge example by asking, um, most people, how do you lose weight and get fit, eat less, do exercise. Thank you. You're not gonna pay me a thousand dollars for it.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: But if there's a personal trainer, you paying like a hundred dollars an hour or whatever at the gym, waiting for you tomorrow you're probably going to the gym, right. Like, you know, if you had a cook who was making it for you, they're holding you accountable.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So a school's responsibilities to do that. And then the final one is the connection because you're not actually going to reach any goal. You're not connected to somehow. And the connection needs to be to your teacher. Your connection needs to be if it's an online school where you have classmates to others and then connection to the goal. So those are the three connection things that we work on in our online school. So if you don't care about losing weight and getting shape like all the rest of the stuff, forget about it. Like you're not going to do it. Like don't waste your money, don't pay anybody. It's not magically going to happen. If you don't like your classmates, you're not going to go to class. If you don't like the teacher, you're not going to go to class. So you need all of those, those three, the CAC factor and then the subcategories in place in order to build a school. But once you do now you can scale because you can teach people how to deliver that stuff. You have the systems in place to do it. It's not digital because again, you can't really get accountability out of digital. Like I don't care if my little. I get an email from you with a video saying you didn't show up today. I know you send that to everybody automatically with an email system. It's like 48 hours. Like yeah, but if you're physically going to be there waiting for me on um, let's say an office hour on um, part of the classes or hybrid in our schools. So it's partially digital, partially hybrid and my classmates are going to be there. That's kind of embarrassing, right? If I said I was going to do something for two weeks from now in front of six people and I'm connected to them and I respect them and I don't do it in two weeks, that's really embarrassing. So that's what's going to get you there. So anyway, what we do is we help people take their knowledge and put it into a system where the kind of CAC factor is implemented and then to help them scale from there. And we've again done it multiple times, the multi seven figures in different niches and environments ourselves. And just to uh, kind of clarify here, we're working, you know, we're working, we have the community but like we run our own school still right now. Aren't two multi seven figure schools on the side in addition to doing this? It's not like, yeah, we're done. We're not learning anymore. We know it all. We're just going to Teach it exactly in our life.

Speaker C: Yeah, I really like that because like you, you basically franchise the knowledge and uh, put a business in a box and built it for them. As an educator, Laura, no names needed to be dropped here, but can you tell us uh, one peculiar kind of unexpected niche or client that you have? Building their own school. Maybe something for our curiosity that we

Speaker A: help to build their own school?

Speaker C: Yeah, like ah, something that, That's a very particular niche. Like very kind of like out there. Like are they teaching people how to um, I don't know, build duck families or something like that or make penis candles or something like any like very unique niche or um, industry that you guys were able to take in your, in your business?

Speaker B: I have one thought. Flower. I can't think of it.

Speaker A: But yeah, yeah, if you, if you can.

Speaker B: Okay. It's not quite as creative as anything that Carlo because yeah, so far none of those, those people have come up. Uh, not something I would have thought of, but it is construction vehicle safety.

Speaker E: Wow.

Speaker C: Yeah. That's very niche. So yeah, I was just like.

Speaker B: Okay, I know more about like OSHA standards for crane lifters than I ever thought I would ever need.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: No, there's a, It's a, it's now it's a. Almost multi seven. Hopefully this year will be multi seven business. Uh, that just teaches that in the

Speaker A: United States or the other one. What was uh, the plant thing? The place is. This is a woman that she. What she does is to landscape design. Landscape design. And she was uh, talking about. Because I was already there, she was doing for big clients. But also what she wanted to do is for any person that wants to have a nice garden that she can teach them uh, about the seasons, about what kind of plants or fauna or flora are around their place and where to get it, how to do it, how to uh, design their own idea or designing their own garden when it's not a uh, good time in the States, especially uh, in the States to, to do gardening. But they will be designing and planning so for uh, summer and when the weather is better, they will start doing it. That was very interesting for me and also for her because she had a lot of passion, uh, love and experience doing that and she wanted to pass that information to just regular people because that's what something that she really wanted to, to share with others but also at the same time not to charge a lot because she feel. She felt kind of guilty about it. So that was another thing.

Speaker B: Quite a bit.

Speaker A: Exactly. But uh, that was also very interested Interesting to work with her and all what she really wanted to do.

Speaker C: Yeah, this is a really good kind of way, um, to support these experts. Because honestly a lot of these experts or I, I personally know a lot of people that are super smart, super experts at what they do, but they can't seem to make the business part of it work. So what do you think? Like Ray for example, what, what do you think is, is the, what's the problem there? Are they just not like they didn't grow up entrepreneurial or um, they're not good with numbers? Like what do you think?

Speaker B: No, I think that they have the limiting belief that nobody would, that their knowledge doesn't have that much value. And that's really what we come across a lot. Um, and we even have a calculator to kind of figure it out. People are always shocked at what it is. And I mean, I'll tell people what it is right now. Um, but Basically your first ICP should be yourself from 10, 20 years ago.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Like that's what you should teach them. So let's just say you're 40 like I am and you go back to the 20 year old, like what could you teach 20 year old Ray to get to where 40 year old Ray is faster and how much faster could they get there? Do that math in your head. Like you know, okay, if I went back in time and I told 20 year old Ray what I knew now maybe they'd reach there in 10 where I am today in 10 years instead of 20 years. Right. And then figure out how much did you make straight out of college? I'm just gonna do easy math. 50,000. Right. Let's just say you made 50 and right now you make 100,000. But you could shave off 10 years at the time. How much is your knowledge worth?

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: $500,000. Very simple math. There's more to it than that, but let's just say $500,000. So in a realistic world, if you had a product you knew was going to work as far as an education.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker B: If you could teach your 20 year old self everything and your 20 year old self believed because they saw your, that you've done it yourself.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And you showed you 1% of that $5,000.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: And they believe. Yeah. If I learn Ray's course, I'm going to make $500,000 more than I would otherwise. How hard do you think it's going to be to sell that product? Probably not very hard.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: So that's the first ICP we work through people. It's. It's called the 21 Year Old Self exercise. And you kind of go there and you're like okay, what would you teach your 20 year olds to yourself to get to where you are today faster.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And invariably most people are like, yeah, I could probably get here. I mean we've heard people say it took me 20 years. I could probably get here too if I knew everything I knew now.

Speaker C: Exactly.

Speaker B: Math. Like it's like $2 million a saving charge, you know, a $20,000 product.

Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. Um, I love that you discussed the, the money making part of it. Like how they actually sell their first courses and how, I mean there's their first enrollments. How do you call it?

Speaker B: Yeah, we usually do it with groups. It's a, it's because remember our idea here is for scaling. Um, so we usually make it group classes. Cohort base. Yeah, cohort is, is what we usually do more semesters because we want to again it's a school. So we build it like university. And this thinks the biz cohort. One of the challenges with cohort is feast or famine business. Like I teach X, I bring people in, I teach them this in 30 days, 60 days, 90 days and they're done. But in real school that's not what happens. I'm like, oh, you did part the part, second part, this next part, there's the networking. So there is community part. Should continue after the actual knowledge transfer takes place. Because if you're doing something for the long term, I don't know, you help somebody lose weight, they reach their goal but now they have to maintain. So like they're. That's where you get the reoccurring revenue from. M. I do come from an engineering finance but I always talk about it this way. But like if you believe in your product, like yeah, I'm going to help you stay healthy for the rest of your life. Yes, there's this upfront investment to go through the crash course knowledge transfer part of it. But then we have this support you like you went into school like you're still a friend, classmates from college, all the rest of it. Like. But it's our alumni association we want to think about like we have an alumni associate. You keep it in there and we'll keep you doing there maybe once a year event. Like there are all these things you can build on and building around the school model that's very different from the course model that you can actually have this community of like minded people who've gone through the same journey as you

Speaker C: have,

Speaker B: um, that's a big key for a lot of people, especially today with online. Like community is missing from a lot of people's lives as well. So you can find it. A school will give you community. It used to be that's where it was. Right. Bella College, like community wasn't really a big deal.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: Our community was our school. Then we get thrown to the real world and we're like, well, there you go, have fun.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: And it's very hard for a lot of us to connect.

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. So since all of this is online, is done online, you know, as someone who has done business online for over a decade, do you help these? One of the things that I really find challenging when I was selling a course, when I was selling mentorship coaching is having a uh, following or like, who, who would I sell this to?

Speaker A: Who?

Speaker C: You know, the people that I know now, they already know I'm doing this. So how do you help your uh, clients get their first few clients?

Speaker B: Well, I'll, I guess I'll take this. The marketing side's more mine.

Speaker C: Um, yeah.

Speaker B: We do an exercise called One Outreach 101. And we teach you how to do it. Reach out one on one to 101 people in your network is the high level of, of it. But you don't reach out to saying, can you buy my product? You reach out to mask. Do you know anybody who could get, can you give me feedback on my product? And you do you know anybody who could buy my product?

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker B: Because what you just did there is you like amplified it out because you're not reaching out really now. You're no longer reaching out to 101 people people. You're reaching out to 101 people who probably each know 100 people. So you're actually reaching out to a thousand people with 101 emails. It is tedious. We make you do it one on one. We make you actually make a video for every single one. It's not like bulk email everybody. Oh yeah. Every single person you reach out to, we have a script. They're about two or three minute videos, but it will probably take you about a month to do it. Because if you think two, three minutes, I can do it in a day. Trust me, it's not that easy. Like you need to kind of sit down. You have to kind of customize parts of the each one of the videos. Um, but we get a 20 response rate on those things. Like these are warm outreaches and you're making a video like Carla, I make a video for you and I'm like, look, hey Carla, how uh, you been doing? You know, how you doing? How's Alex? How's all that kind of stuff? Hey, I have a new project. I'd love your feedback and do you know anybody? And you would start thinking like, yeah, I know Ray, like, you know, I'd love to help him if I can. At the very least I'll give you feedback. And if not, I might know somebody who's there. So like, that's what we teach in the first place. That'll get you enough money. And then after that we go into paid ads. Because that's usually the scale. If you want to scale after that it's usually paydays.

Speaker A: No, I can also on the Academic Park, Carla. Yeah, It's a way for them to understand what they're saying because in the video they had to repeat over and over. And the repetition helped them uh, to say, right, this is my product, this is what I'm selling, this is how I'm doing it, uh, what you think. And then to connect these people in that way, help them to practice and practice and practice up to a point that they know what they're saying, what they're doing, and they do really believe on what they're doing, especially if it's a new product for them and if it's the first time to have that self confidence. Right. It's also ah, part of the exercise.

Speaker C: I like that because I was, I remember when I was um, coaching people who are new at business, one of the things that was very hard for them was to just make their elevator pitch and just repeat it over and over again. And then I tell them, okay, did you meet these people? How, how was your elevator pitch? Like, how was your, you know, when someone, you meet someone at the party, hey, Ray, nice to meet you. What do you do? You know, like they, they would stutter like even 20 times in. So you guys sharing that, you actually make them do this at least 101 times. You check every single one of it. You really provide them that, that type of, um, tiger mom accountability. I love that. That really works. I love, I haven't seen this approach, um, from any, honestly any of, uh, any coach or anyone who is helping people build online schools and uh, programs like this. So if any one of you listeners are even just slightly curious what Ray and Laura are building, definitely check them out, um, their website out and see if you have anyone that can really, really take advantage of the help that they're Giving. So obviously in your program the most powerful thing that you guys do is to help take these people's knowledge and experience, basically who they already are, and turn it into something new, something profitable, and also helping uh, more people. Can you share how that connects back to their, their own journey of self confidence and self esteem?

Speaker B: Absolutely. Actually we have a phrase for what you're saying. We call it wisdom to wealth. So we take you.

Speaker E: Oh, I love that.

Speaker B: Right. So um, as human beings, I think we're put on this world for two things. One is to grow ourselves and two is to share. Right. So usually the problem is most of us only focus on one of those two aspects and we always feel like something else is missing. What we try to do with the online school builders is to close the loop and that's why we work with experienced people. So sorry, if you're listening to this and you're straight out of college and you haven't done anything yet, this is not quite the program for you. Check in 10 years. Right. Like, but right now you're not ready for that point then. Right. So go in, get some experience and then go and give back. You know, it's, it's not, it's the concept of taking the elevator to the top and then sending it back down for the other people. It's not taking the elevator to the top and just like, okay, just keeping the door open and nobody else can take the elevator, send it back down and you're going to find a different kind of fulfillment. And this is tying into the self esteem, your self worth because it's no longer your business. You're like, yeah, you're going to start getting value and seeing other people succeed.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker B: In other, you know, your contribution to society, making the world a slightly better place. Because that's what at its core education should be about.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker B: It doesn't matter if you're, you know, teaching them how to make, you know, penis candles. Like, hey, somebody wants something, you're making the world.

Speaker C: I'm sure a lot of people want them. Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Speaker B: So like you're making the world for some people, you're making a better place. Knock yourself out, be proud of it and give it back. So like that's kind of how it's all tied together. Most of the people who come into our course usually have pretty high self confidence and this is to kind of help build up their self esteem.

Speaker C: Oh, I love that. I really love that approach. And um, for you, Laura, as an educator, obviously you already know the gifts of Giving back of teaching people. What is another thing that these people usually realize at the end after they go through your program with now them as the educator, do they discover something new about themselves?

Speaker A: Yeah, well a lot of things new I guess they discover. But one is um, had to trust in other people because of course they're entrepreneurs so they know and they believe that they can do anything. And sometimes when they can they don't like to ask for help because that's the way. So that's one thing that they, we teach them how to. You know, you can delegate this, this is how you delegate. It's not going to be perfect. That's okay, you can deal with it. Etc. I think that's one thing that I see a lot in almost all of them. One thing that Raymond uh, is not also saying this kind of course is we also. He did it and we did it with a bunch of teenagers. They're about to finish high school and in, you know in order to apply universities etc, they took one of these courses with us. And I was also very excited to see that even though you may think they don't have any experience and they cannot launch any business best they could and they have the advantage uh, that we didn't have when we started business which is AI all the technology that they have on them hands is very um, I don't know, excited to see how much they can do. And they're very young, they're 16, 15, 17 years old with a lot of ideas and when you catch the CDS and they teach them really simple way how to do it, they do it and they very uh. It's very excited to see that especially when they're so young and to see how much they can accomplish. So it's not only for people that has a lot of experience but also enough experience for one of them. They wanted to do uh, I don't know the. What was the BX thing? The bicycle.

Speaker B: Oh ATVs. How to ride and maintain an ATV was one of the courses he had

Speaker A: really, he knew m. He had experience, he was teaching others how to do it. So he was working on his course. So that was something that he was going to launch. And uh, people will buy it for sure. I mean people look their age, right. So that was very interesting to see what people of their age are thinking nowadays. Very different from what we're thinking. We, we adults.

Speaker E: Right.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: So that's uh, something that I always um, enjoy when I'm guiding people. Not only for the young ones but also the, the. Let's say the professional ones, like that passion that they don't know they have until you with them, guide them step by step, like, oh, this is what you know. And that's when they start to realize that, oh, this is what I know is worth it and I'm really passionate about it. So they find again, their passion when they start business and the reason they start a business. Right. So that's very, um, I think for me, uh, fulfilling.

Speaker C: I love that and I love, I love your guys's journey of paying it forward in terms of self confidence and self esteem. Like in the past you had these experiences, you had these challenges, you got over it, you started multiple businesses. Now you found these people who may have some problems with their self esteem or self confidence, help them build online schools. Now they're passing off this confidence to these people who want to learn these skills. So I just, I just love this journey. So I know so many people are now really curious. Like even I am like, oh my gosh, maybe I can talk to Ray and I can start a basic flower arrangement course. But then that's just gonna add, you

Speaker B: know, people are gonna pay for that.

Speaker A: Right?

Speaker C: Like, I know, I know, I know. Actually, actually I sent a message to my girl, uh, group here and I'm like, hey, do you guys want to do like basic flower arrangement for, for the house? And they were like, yes, please. When, how much? Like, let's do it. And I'm like, no, just, just pay for the flowers. I'm just, we're just hanging out. Oh. But, um, I know so many people now have, have these crazy ideas just like me. How can they find you? How can they follow your work? And what's the best way to get in touch?

Speaker B: Yeah, these. Click on the contact us form there. Um, or you can kind of sign up. We do have like free workshops that periodically. So kind of sign up for the newsletter. One of the cool things, we have an online school builders. I mentioned the community. We actually have multiple seven and eight figure people who built schools in our community and they give them a shop. So like we call them like the senior members. And to join us though, they have to give a course on something that worked for them on their thing. So it's like an actual practical workshop that we include in our community. You take our course which gives you the basics of building your school. Yeah, but then we have other people who've done stuff that, yes, we've never done before. We haven't done every possible thing under the moon. So they've done it like, hey, this is how I built. I used. I don't know what was the one. Oh, personal branding. We did one recently on that. It's like, how do you build your own personal brand? I'm like, oh, and we have a full course on how to build a personal brand. We have a full course on how to scale to nine figures. Like, you know, what are the things, you know, seven steps to scale to nine figures once you got to a certain size. So you can find us in there, you can join us. You can kind of just take some of these free courses that we have as well and test it out. And if you're like, oh, yeah, that's something I'd like to try, let us know. We'd love to. We'd love to help you.

Speaker C: All right, well, thank you so much, guys. This was so fruitful. What a great conversation. And, uh, I'm sure that our listeners now have a lot of things to think about. Thank you so much, Ray and Laura, for coming over. And for all of our listeners, definitely check out Online School Builders and follow Ray and Laura also and check out their newsletter. Keep in touch, maybe try out some of their free trainings and just see what's out there. And if you know anyone that would really use their help, you could be a blessing to these people. Just make the introduction or send them their website. Everyone will appreciate it. So thank you so much, guys, and to all of our listeners, see you in the next two weeks for another episode of none of youf Business.

Speaker E: So it's a wrap to my entrepreneur friends. I hope that you found this episode interesting and enjoyable. I know I did. Big thanks to our sponsor, Proximity Outsourcing, for making this possible. If you need to outsource anything in your business so you can scale fast and Easy, visit pro proximityoutsourcing.com and check out their solutions. If there's any topic that you want to request, feel free to reach out. I only have two conditions. You tell me why you find it interesting and you promise it's not business talk. Find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube and leave us a comment or review because you're cool like that. This is your host, Carla, and thank you so much for joining me. Thank you for your interest in fun stories. Now we can get back to business. See you next week. And remember, everything here is none of your business.