When Wealth Goes Viral: Nepo Babies, Corruption, and the Price of Influence in the Philippines with PR Pro Jesse Boga

Speaker A: I think that because Filipinos are so, like, we have so much pent up anger and resentment towards corruption, I think they are like the scapegoat right now. I think a lot of Filipinos have found, like, finally I can blame someone. And that I m think that gives us a little sense of redemption that we get to shit on these people. Like I saw some people being very critical about the, how they look and how a lot of these Napo babies have like plastic surgery. They're fixing their nose. Or, um, some of them are the

Speaker B: lack of plastic surgeries because some of them, as Redditors pointed out, are already rich but can't afford to fix their faces or something like that.

Speaker A: Yeah, or there was that other girl who was, uh, chubby and people were saying mean things like, why isn't she the flood control project? Let's just, let's just make her stop the crazy.

Speaker C: I know.

Speaker A: They're both so crazy.

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Speaker A: Everyone. Especially to all of my listeners in the Philippines. And maybe for Filipinos who are abroad, our dear OFWs. Good morning and welcome to another episode of none of your business. So I actually was super excited to record this podcast with one of my dear friends and Jesse Boga. He is a PR writer who practices journalism and PR public relations. He mostly writes about sustainability and fashion. But today him and I are gonna sit down and talk about this big issue in the Philippines of corruption, nepo babies or children, uh, that are in, um, families that have a lot of wealth and who flaunt it excessively on social media and a lot of issues on lifestyle checks of these families, politicians, all of these connections and how we feel honestly as Filipinos and taxpayers. So welcome, Jesse. How are you today?

Speaker B: Thank You, Carla, for um, inviting me to the show I'm doing. Well, I'm very happy to um, connect with you this week and to unpack thoughts and feelings about what's happening all around us. It's crazy because you know what they say, right? Um, the world is on fire, but we are still buying shoes.

Speaker A: I love that quote because you know, even during the pandemic I was still buying shoes and lipstick and I, I just went through this spiral of consumerism. But let us uh, give our listeners a little bit of background. So you as a, uh, normal working Filipino. No working Filipino, just going on with your day. How did you find out about this issue and what were uh, your feelings about it? Your initial feelings about it?

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker B: Well, um, before I begin, I just wanted to say that the World is on Fire But We're Still Buying Shoes is not an original quote by me. It's a title of a book by fashion critic Alec Leech. So um, if he's like a person that I look up to and uh, when it comes to fashion and sustainability. But I'm going back to just answering the question. I feel like my uh, heart feels heavy and there's a lot of confusion and uh, confused, um, anger really about why all of this has happened.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Because on one hand, um, we're kind of happy that there's a certain level of transparency enabled by uh, media platforms. But on the other it's maddening that it points us towards a reality that's really um, that really hits close to home. Yeah. That all of this um, all of the experiences, um, of ah, uh, fellow Filipinos when it comes to disasters and being vulnerable to um, all of these uh, environmental uh, risks and uh, flooding, typhoon. They are all real and they are made worse because of the infrastructure that is imaginary.

Speaker A: Right, right. So the big issue for our listeners was that these families, there are a couple of families that are somehow tied allegedly to corruption because their names are uh. And these families own certain construction companies and companies that are supposed to do flood control projects and other projects that are supposed to benefit the Filipino people like roads, bridges, things like that. These things operate, have to operate on like hundreds of millions in pesos and probably billions actually in pesos, which is about a hundred million dollars, hundreds of millions of dollars, um, in budgets. But it seems like these projects are not even done right. Some of them are ghost projects. And we're finding out about this, so where does the money go? And of course the issue is like these families, the children, the parents, they seem to have A very excessive lifestyle, excessively wealthy lifestyle. And they can't. It's funny that they just can't help but flaunt their wealth despite the big income gap, despite the big contrast to how most of the Filipinos are suffering in poverty. And not just poverty, suffering more in their day to day lives because of badly built roads, bridges, flood control projects. So I think that's really what is maddening. Right. It's like why they can't help but flaunt their private jets, their designer watches, shoes, outfits. So as a PR practitioner, why do you think some wealthy people in the Philippines, or especially those from political families or people with ties to these projects, why do you think they just can't help but flaunt their wealth online? Like why can't you just be rich and quiet? Like I'd imagine if I was super rich, you will never find me on social media.

Speaker B: I know, yeah, yeah, I think, um, I'd live the same life. I'd live a very private life if I were like super rich.

Speaker A: Ah.

Speaker B: Because then we'd be together and we'd be exactly offline. Yeah, I guess. Um, I'd like to start by saying that um, the kind of messaging that we see online about lavish uh, lifestyles, they're all locked in a circle. And I'm saying this from a communication scholars perspective that um, all of these Nepo babies, uh, we say are using media to gratify their self, um, worth, their sense of being and their purpose. Right. So they use media to communicate this and they, and to communicate their lifestyle and they feel a sense of achievement every time people comment and express an interest in the content that they produce.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Because in the bigger picture we as a community still look up to them as aspirational figures in the sense that our definition of success is uh, that. Exactly. Buying luxury items, living a good life and all of that. And so, um, their use of these media platforms continue and they are able to sustain their uh, uh, influencer practice. And in the long run I guess that detaches them from reality and a sense of transparency or being critical about their practice. They are not able to maybe see the big picture or the knock off, knock on effect of the content they produce. Uh, they keep on talking about lifestyle, uh, luxurious lifestyles, but where are they exactly and in what context are they producing all of those content?

Speaker A: Right. Yeah, I guess, I guess. Also because the stuff that you post, the things that you really get validation from, is mostly from your close friends, like friends first. Right, Right. So you get validation from Your close friends first. So if you look good, if they comment you're hot, you look good, something like that, or wow, that's such a nice, wonderful time, you know, during your vacation. So there's that. Let's. That um, someone would be craving from like their immediate circle. But because what you said of what you said, and some of these kids grew up in a very like, wealthy environment already. A lot of them are just super detached to the reality, um, of most Filipinos. So they, they are insensitive. But to be honest, you know, I'll give them a little bit of grace. To be honest, I think they might be unconscious about exactly this gap. So, uh, I'll give you an example. I have a friend, we were, you know, drinking, this was like a few years ago, and we were talking about Europe and I told him, hey, I've never visited Europe and I would love to plan a trip. And we were just like, we were drinking, we were like casually just talking and I was like, do you want to go to Europe together? And this guy, uh, has a long term relationship with another guy. So they're like a gay couple and they're very fashionable. And I told them, I would love to go to Europe with you guys and you can teach me all of your like, fashion stuff. And they're like, okay, uh, let's check the prices of flights. And so we all, um, got on our phone and checked the prices of flights and I was like, oh, what if we go on this date and this month I'm seeing like $3,000, like round trip, Is that a good deal? And then he said, huh, huh, what airline is that? I'm only seeing like minimum $15,000. I'm like, oh, this airline. And, and then I was, we were both so confused. Turns out he was looking at first class flights and I was looking at economy flights. So, um, it was so funny in the, in the same moment we were both confused why we were getting very different, very different prices. But in my reality, you know, the first thing I check is an economy flight. Um, and then eventually I would, I would work my way up a business class with some points and miles. But that is my default. And him, his default, because he grew up rich, is first class flights. And that's just his default. Like he was so amazed that I, he thought I was so savvy finding a, uh, three thousand dollar flight. No, I'm not savvy, I'm just poor. So, uh, that is a very granular moment of how our realities can be so different. Um, As a, As a regular Filipino, you know, what is the effect of these, These posts of excessive wealth to you? Um, especially, you know, because you and I have experienced just getting by like paycheck to paycheck.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: They do, um, impact me in the sense that, um, when we look at these things, we don't, uh, we take them as. We take these content in as their own value. We don't. We are not as critical and we see them as aspirational.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And even like protect or like defend the fault. The influencers that we look up to, uh, and say that and say things like, you know, um, they earned, uh, they work hard for all of that. Not. We fail to see how choreographed all of these content that we see in social media that they, um, very heavily edited. So many other things are omitted. And we don't get to see the bigger picture or the whole story. We just see one angle and it's them flaunting their lifestyles and it's us associating m. That piece of the story with success, with living a good life, when in fact a good life is not exactly limited to like just shopping. Right. Just buying designer clothes. It's protecting your piece. It's being. Finding time with your family, pursuing your dreams and all of that. Instead, what is being focused in our understanding and consumption of their content is success being able to achieve like a hype, uh, successful business earning lots of money, regardless of the process to get there. And, and so that really puts a low regard, um, on transparency and accountability.

Speaker A: Yeah. I think also the backbone of that is us tying money to your value in society. Because in the past, for so many years, obviously our brains are still catching up to Internet and all of the oversharing, parasocial relationships. I think we are still catching up to the effects of that to our brain. But over like centuries, the money or currency is a symbol of the value that you bring to the society. So even if the oldest profession, which is prostitution, you are paid, uh, for sex work. So that is the value that you're paid for. So we already as humans have an understanding that basically if you have money, you have value to the society. And then I think our brains are still catching up with this excessive displays of wealth and this, this amount of access to these people's private lives. Like we have videos of, um, I think that was Claudine, um, of her very raw thoughts in this private jet. And, and she was. She's not censoring herself. She's just sharing. She's just taking us with her um, in the, in this, in this private jet, uh, trip. And then she was saying some really raw thoughts about, oh, you know what, maybe we should have brought the ibericoham or something. And then she was asking, yeah, right. So it is obviously very raw. These are her real thoughts in real time. And we're watching this happen with a backdrop of a private jet and that is insane to have that access to this person that you don't know at all. So um, but now they're, they're being in. People are being critical and they're under very, very critical lens because of the families they belong to and their connections to these multimillion dollar projects. So I think now is a good time to talk about wealthy people and how they look like in public. Especially if you're connected to some political, uh, families. So as a PR practitioner, let's put on your PR lens. Why do these people with all of their money never seem to invest in proper PR training before posting? Like they have a lot of. I saw a lot of really cringe posts in my opinion. And yes, I practice pr, but I'm not uh, that, you know, I'm not that good at it or I'm not as seasoned as you.

Speaker B: Mhm. Well, um, thank you for trusting my lens to be able to answer that question. My easy answer is they never see public image as something to protect. Rather it's something that they want to just flaunt and celebrate without second thought. You know, like every time these uh, for example, any rich person who just uh, flaunts social, flaunts their lifestyle in social media, they don't, they're not really thinking about the implications of, or the long term uh, effects of the content that they produce. Like does this affect their sense of security? Does this ah, put them at risk of being impersonated or are they putting out personal details about uh, their lives that could be uh, that could make them vulnerable. So um, PR is not something that I find, is not something that they, there's a need for them at the moment because they, they already feel the lives that they live. You know, PR or like a, or any sense of um, communication infrastructure to keep them safe becomes an afterthought. Right? It only comes in usually uh, in the form of uh, crisis communication and they're already in trouble. But like there is communication part of it, which is like uh, considering the communication mechanisms to keep them safe, to avoid crisis or conflict is not a part of their creative process. Because when they produce all of this content, all they want to do is to just choreograph a look, edit like a narrative, a story, or just think about how they want to go viral. It's not part of their creative process to think about, like, the implications, oh, will I get in trouble if I publish this? What makes it worse is they do not have what I like to refer as internal critics or like a fellow critics who, uh, would, um, uh, play a devil's advocate whenever they publish something. Yeah. Like, I like that you and I have that kind of relationship, that we consult each other. Hey, what do you think about this story or this post? Right.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And then we unpack that and talk about what the. Could have been or what could. The possibilities. They don't have that. They just want their followers. They just want to go viral, and they just want to show off their latest Chanel bag. And I think that's crazy because they are not like normal people. They are already set up in an environment, in a family, in a net, in a social network that is, um, looped in on, like, public trust.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: They're contractors, they're working with the government, they use public resources, and now it's being channeled to fuel their lives themselves. So it's maddening.

Speaker A: Yeah. And, um, as more scandals come up, like, I think some of the disga. Uh, family luxury, uh, cars, I think were found to. To have been recorded when it. They entered the country. Like, these cars as like, ground beef. Like, I. I don't know if you saw that, but apparently there's not proper, like, paperwork, uh, or. Or they're still digging it up. No, allegedly. So I don't want to get in trouble, but they're still digging up, like, the proper, proper paperwork for these luxury cars. And, um, that. That interaction, that public interview of the disga. Ah. Uh, lady who was saying, oh, I bought a Rolls Royce because I like the umbrella. Um, it's so detached and honestly, it's so cringe. And it's. This is why I can't blame the kids. No, the Nepo babies, the. The younger generation, because I think a lot of their parents or their elders are doing the same thing, like excessive flaunting of wealth for quick dopamine. Sometimes I feel like, what is it for? Like, everyone already knows you're rich. How many times do you have to mention that you're rich? I really don't understand, uh, when I compare this to actual rich families that we know, for example, these legacy families in Davao City that have, uh, owned farms and a lot of legacy brands, they don't need to repeat all the time. I actually looked at some of these because some of these people are our friends. I actually looked at their Facebook. They barely post. They barely, um, talk about their lives, uh, compared to these big families that have ties to these flood control projects, like public highways projects. I'm almost embarrassed for them. But you're right, it's like they have arrogance and they have a, uh, no one can tell them no kind of air because of their privilege and how rich they are. So these kids are considered influencers because they have tons of followers. So what do you think? These rich kids, why do you think they became influencers? Who do you think are they influencing and do you personally think they have influence?

Speaker B: Um, that's a very easy, um, question for me to answer from a PR perspective, you know, or like even like as like someone who practices sustainable fashion communication when we are to be critical about influencer messaging. They're all really just still operating, uh, under the idea of like consumption. Like they're buying.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: Showing it off and like telling people that hey, this is what they have. If you work as hard as I do, you too can also shop these expensive things. So what they're doing essentially is really just participating in the consumption culture that just goes around, uh, whether it's in fashion, in cars or in um, food even. Right. So it's all really rooted in consumption. Being able to participate and shell out and to buy things and to get that high when you go shopping. Like influencers, they're, they're telling you about the lives that they live and the things that they buy. Nothing more than that. Yeah, I mean, not, not. There's not, there's not an iota of like personal style that they communicate.

Speaker A: Right. Honestly.

Speaker B: I mean, you've seen their content.

Speaker A: Honestly.

Speaker B: Yeah, they all just, I don't even like feel inspired. Inspired by, by the looks that they assemble. That they assemble. But like beyond that, it's really just consumption. It's just them buying, using money and then really just putting themselves in a pedestal so that people can look up to them as aspirational figures. Which is problematic in itself because our, as, as I say it, um, our idea of success continues to be that being able to buy fancy things.

Speaker A: That's right. That's right. Yeah. I think that you're right about this. Uh, there's no like additional thinking involved. They, it's actually a little sad how there's nothing that they want to be known for or famous for aside from someone who buys stuff. And I've Seen a lot of these TikTok influencers also in the States, um, where these platforms are actually paying people. So in a way you could say oh maybe that's their job. No, as a content creator. But in the Philippines monetization is actually very small.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's very, very small. Yes, you can make money but you know it's not. It is, it's very hard. Like I think you need probably uh, 10 million views to even get like $500 or something like that, which is very, very hard to do. Very hard to do. So I think that when I look at these, the posts that of uh, of these people as well. Like that lady who had a 700000 pesos dinner and there was just two of them. And um, that, that is crazy. And then that girl who got I think a Benz or a BMW for her birthday and she was like thank you daddy. And I feel like I'm in a, in a, in a very different world. And, and it as a business owner who has worked really hard to make the money that I make and have not reached that level of consumption, it honestly like makes me mad. And this is why I support people and these organizations and even these subreddits that try to check the lifestyles of these influencers. So you know influence in that word means um, like power, right? Power over something. Power over someone. How dangerous do you think it is when influence is rooted in wealth that may be tied to corruption? What paint us some worst case scenarios of what could happen in your opinion right now?

Speaker B: What see is that influencer culture is limiting our sense, our skill of being able to think critically beyond the narrative that's being presented to us. When we have like um, people like Claudine Kohler for example on a pedestal, she has the machinery, the followers, the voice, even the fashion media covers her. She's able to dictate in a way what good life should be. Right. And um, it limits our way of thinking and that ultimately just influences our action. It limits us and the way the many things, the many possibilities that we can do um, to be productive, member of society. And so um, collectively the kind of um, thinking uh, that all of us have as Filipinos become somewhat ah, frail.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: That we feel helpless and ultimately this is being even made uh, worse by uh, condition, fear, natural disasters. It's a very small stab that is just persistent for every time we access these kinds of media. So it's uh, not really a worst case scenario but it's like poison, right. Which potentially leads to that, yeah, for

Speaker A: me, I think, like, internally, the worst case scenario that I can think of is honestly that these people, people would harm themselves because of how critical we are. And I think a lot of them have first never seen this coming. They never saw this coming. Um, like this week I'm in my private jet, I'm going to, uh, this resort with my Chanel bag and my boyfriend, and we're gonna post 5,000 stories. And then next week I'll be under this microscope, public microscope. So I think that a lot of. Because Filipinos are so, like, we have so much pent up anger and resentment towards corruption, I think they are like the scapegoat right now. I think a lot of Filipinos have found, like, finally I can blame someone. And that I think that gives us a little sense of, um, a little sense of redemption that we get to on these people. Like, I saw some people being very critical about how they look and how a lot of these Nepo babies have like, plastic surgery. They're fixing their nose. Or, um, some of them are the

Speaker B: lack of plastic surgeries because some of them, as Redditors pointed out, are already rich but can't afford to fix their faces or something like that.

Speaker A: Yeah. Or there was that other girl who was, uh, chubby and people were saying mean things like, why isn't she the flood control project? Let's just, let's just make her stop this. Crazy. I know. Crazy. It's crazy about Filipinos. You know, we are, uh, we have, we have a crazy humor. Right. Which I really love. Um, and, and I think Filipinos can be really creative in general. That's why we make really good wedding photographers and videographers. But we can also be creative about our insults. And I actually, I actually found that a bit entertaining. But also, I cannot help but think that some of these people are just kids. And, um, I do feel a little bit afraid that they might harm themselves. Um, and this is why I want to be careful about the messages that I put out there. And another thing is I ask myself, like, how do these people feel? Can you imagine someone who has built your life around your, um, influencer lifestyle because they don't really have jobs and I also don't see any passion that they have. And imagine just all of that being take or being used to insult you, and then you thinking, who are my actual, real friends? Or do my close friends somehow think that, uh, all of this is ill gotten wealth? Do I really even have the respect of the people around me? Like, what about my maid? When I tell her to do this or my driver to do that, do they even, like, what do they think about me? So I think that it's very easy to go into these people spirals. And honestly that I, I think about this sometimes. Like, what are they really thinking? How are they really feeling in the midst of all of this? Like, uh, you know, you're.

Speaker B: You're really right that, uh, to bring this up. Um, and, uh, I'm especially very concerned with the amount of hate that they're getting and how they're trying to maybe, I don't know, process or block it at some point.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Because, um, I guess the conversation is, um, never going to be fully controlled, um, by collectively. Right. But they have, like, the option to just shut it down, close their ears and all that. I guess the kind of criticism that is important at this point is at the system. And we still really need to remember that all of these people, Right. They're still human, but we need to converse with them in a way that it shatters their veil, but does not really stab them in the heart. Yeah, I'm just trying to be human here. Of course I'm mad. Of course it's natural for us to be frustrated because everything else around us is crumbling, and then these people are living, um, lifestyles. But then, um, it's just as important to be human at this point and for them to also be that.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I think that's also what is. I think they're in a freeze moment, to be honest, because once again, they don't have PR training, so they probably just don't know what to do right now. But, uh, thinking exercise, Jesse, what if this Nepo baby was you? With the knowledge that you have now, what would you do? Like, just a thinking exercise.

Speaker B: Yeah, I thought about that earlier. This is a very difficult crisis communication episode.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Um, none of the theories that I have on hand are going to help me save my ass. The best part, um, the best thing for me to do really, at this point is to just shut down, be silent, and to redeem myself very slowly at some point in the future. Um, like, impact the lives of the many, give back to the community, exercise transparency and accountability. But, you know, even with all of those efforts, people are still not going to believe you. They're not going to welcome you with open arms. Right.

Speaker A: Exactly. Exactly. And I think that is really the part where I think I am so happy I have my life over, over theirs. Because that is a feeling that will not leave you forever. Like, forever questioning who Your real friends are. Oh, my God.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah. I cannot have. I. I cannot. Maybe this is why I'm worried about them. Because I know what I would probably feel. I would probably, you know, um, I would probably consider self harm if that happened to me.

Speaker B: But I think it's worrisome.

Speaker A: It's very sad. It's very sad. It's worrisome. And. And that feeling is not. It's not something that you can just like, you know, pop a pill or. And that's another thing that would be scary. Um, in their intention to regulate their feelings. What if they try to numb their feelings through alcohol or drugs? That is another thing that. That would be harmful. Pero. I think a lot with your suggestion. I think I would also do the same. I'll quietly just deactivate everything. Um, I'll probably go overseas or something. And, uh, because I have this. I have this fantasy that I'll. I'll do a documentary like, Watch me go from 1000 pesos to 1 million in one year. But then that's me thinking with the skills that I have now as a business person, so if I was truly them, I wanted to do like, okay, watch me, Watch me make this money. I want to show you I can do it. I can do it.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Yeah. At the same time, that is me thinking with my skills right now, if I was just a Nepo baby with no skills. Yeah. I don't. I don't know what I'm going to do. It's difficult to prove myself. Yeah.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: And because at, uh, this point, everything that they will do will be taken against them. People's lives have already been taken. So many communities have been displaced. And like, uh, the flood, all of the effects of the natural disasters have already taken place.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And, um, it's not like if they sell their Chanel bag. I think that's a third for charity mentioning Chanel Bag. Right. Um, if they sell their Chanel bag and do a medical driver feeding, it's

Speaker A: not gonna change anything.

Speaker B: So, m. There's a bigger, um, problem here, and it's a system. Um, and of course that's a very abstract, uh, problem for us to face. And so we are left with this conversation right now, the conversation on the Internet, which is important because it helps us understand what's happening, it helps us to be critical. That's why these conversations need to continue. But, yeah, these conversations don't, huh, have to continue at the cost of more lives.

Speaker A: Yeah. Actually, the other night when I was reading about this, all of this issue. I went to ChatGPT and I told ChatGPT, hey, if I want to code an app that will help this issue, I want an app that people can all access and people can drop their PDFs of the government projects. And then I want the app to use like, AI to compare the prices and the quotes to like the regular price of cement per SAP. And then the app will give a rating on whether the prices were honest. Um, and it was a very simple idea, actually. ChatGPT gave me a whole plan and I hope that I know that I'm not the first person who thought of this because it is true. Like hardware prices are. That can easily be public information, like ace hardware, any hardware. We all know how much a sack of cement costs, or a kilo of nails, or we all know how much these cost. A day's work of a construction worker. We all know how much these cost. So it's actually probably not that difficult to make all of this information public. Um, and honestly, this, for me, tying to the original question, I think this is the only way if there is one of these Nepo babies who can champion this app or transparency. Good luck. No, I don't think they will probably try to shut this podcast down, but I think that is the only. If there's one person who can be the hero, I think that is the only way that they can redeem themselves. But the funny part is I think there's only space for one person to do that.

Speaker B: Right. And uh, yeah, um, um, I like the idea of being able to just leverage technology to find a solution. But, um, uh, my question, sigurda for you would be where exactly do we start? Like, who is the best person among all of the parties involved to step forward from, from there and, and say, you know what, we're very willing to, to make things right. How do we do it? Where do we start? They are still going to be met with um, lots of rage. But who do you think should like just step forward and like be that face of change from, from their end?

Speaker A: Honestly, I really hope it's these because I'm thinking of incentive as well. So, so I really hope that it's these big business owners. I Hope it's the Cs, I hope it's the Ayalas, because these are champions of, uh, wealth that they've built through generations and wealth that. And I think they are the perfect people to also obviously they have their csr, I don't know their CSR departments. I think they're the most capable. They have all the budget champion this and even fund that app that I was probably thinking about. Hi. Hi. Cease. Hi. Ayadas. Um, and then. But also I think that them as business owners, they, I think there's also something for them to gain, to be honest, because at the end of the day, if these flood control projects are only given to 10 families, for example, at uh, 10 construction companies or whatever you call these companies, I bet the Ayalas, the Tans or whatever, I bet they have some business that can compete in terms of pricing, I bet because of economies of scale, um, in terms of uh, lending their expertise. I bet these, these are the companies with, with uh, resources and access to these types of people, especially these big real estate companies like uh, yeah, like the SM development, like Ayala Villar, um, all of these companies. So one, they have the incentive, they have the resources you and I think they have. They still have something to gain if this gets fixed, in my opinion. I uh, mean.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: I'm just an online influencer.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I mean they have already set the standard project would look like the budget involved, the resources involved. I mean it's from a private sectors, uh, from a private sector's lens. But it makes sense because all of these businesses, if you're, if you think about it, one also want to make the most out of the resources that they put in a project. So, and so if they are to for example, spend like this much for like a uh, wall, for example. Yeah. They would know that they're economical about it and they are not going to go beyond like that said budget to compromise quality.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: Or to just get, to gain something from it because their public image, their trust in them is at stake.

Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. So once again, I think that's another benefit of being a public publicly traded company because the value of your stock is also dictated by public opinion. So there's some sort of uh, self, uh, correcting mechanism in a way. Uh, and well, I'm really getting excited about this brainstorming but um, but they

Speaker B: better listen to us.

Speaker A: They better listen. I'm gonna send this to I know their family. Uh, no, but I think, I think that that would really be. And at the end of the day, trickle down, the trickle down benefits, like at the end of the day, if they can protect the regular taxpayer, that is actually their customer. Right. That is, that's the one lining up at Save More at Watson's.

Speaker B: Yes, that's us.

Speaker A: That's us trying to get to the three day sale so we can pay more VAT To, I know, to the Nepo babies. But yeah, honestly, uh, of course these are very simplistic. Brainstorming from two to nobodies, uh, in this podcast, you and me. But I really hope that, you know, something gets done. I, I honestly, I support a revolution, whatever that looks like. I hope we don't lose lives, but whatever, because I've been reading on Reddit, um, can we be, uh, how can we brainstorm on ways on how to start a revolution or how can we keep this conversation going?

Speaker B: Um, I love that.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, so I love that.

Speaker B: I'm all about, like the idea of a revolution without people's lives at stake and like, with the technology that we have right now, the amount of creativity that we have and uh, uh, like the number of people who want to or genuinely who are genuine in their intention to see change. The possibilities are endless for a revolution. It doesn't have to be. It doesn't have people power. Yeah, right. Yeah. The revolution does not have to happen on the streets or it doesn't have to involve blood. It ha. It can happen in the way we talk, you know, the way we pedal conversations and the way we, um, collectively create this environment in social media where we are now more critical about the content that we consume and produce. And we are, and we become more intentional about the messages that we send out. Like if you are an influencer, you make it a part of your, um, mantra. Right. To produce stories that inspire people and transparent with your lifestyle and not use, to not enable corruption.

Speaker A: Mhm. It can be that.

Speaker B: It can be the revolution. The revolution can be in the conversation and that's the beauty in it.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think that also because now that this issue is public, I think people will forever, um, resent these families, these last names. No, the. Anything that's connected. That's why there was that one vlogger, I think it was Camille Koh, who kept repeating, I'm not related to them.

Speaker B: That is hilarious.

Speaker A: And then it's funny because her name is also Camille, letter C. So everyone probably just thought they're probably sisters with the one who was really. For a second.

Speaker B: For a second, even I get confused.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. And then, you know, um, it's. It's crazy because I think that the, These families, these names will, they're the bad, um, reputation, unfortunately, will be there forever unless they do something drastic like, like, like what I said, like if there is one person who will be like the rebel and will be like, no, I will, I will, um, strip myself off of wealth and I Will work at Jollibee and I will show

Speaker B: everyone that would be, that would be worth filming.

Speaker A: Exactly. That's why, that's why I said if I was one of these kids, I will probably start a documentary and try to show everyone that I can do it. But I'm actually secretly buying like Bitcoin, um, and praying and praying that it will grow because I honestly that I think that is their only ticket to wealth. Um, if they actually strip. Actually strip themselves off of wealth and get a regular job.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: It'll be very hard. It will be very hard to catch up.

Speaker B: Um, well, I'm just glad that we're not Nepo babies. And you know what.

Speaker A: Are you for real?

Speaker B: Yeah. And you know what, what this episode is teaching me is really like. And then I'm learning it from you. I like the idea that, you know, we need, we at the end of the day really need to be critical about the businesses that we support. Like, you know, go for the businesses supported by. Go for the businesses that are ran by like entrepreneurs who are building from scratch or working their asses off. Like, why would you keep supporting a business run by like someone who is in the loop of corruption? It's insane.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly, exactly. And the funny thing is like these, these companies don't actually need like public opinion because they just have these hush hush agreements with probably some government or department officials like whatever, dpwh, whatever department is approving, uh, these projects. So it's, it's annoying, it's maddening how they are even isolated from uh, what we can, what we patronize as services. So I think I actually read this subreddit about like, how can we make a rev. How can we make a revolution out of this? Some of them were suggesting that we should just mass report their social media accounts. Um, and because typically the social media platforms will disable their account so that they don't get like the dopamine. And we should watch if they post again and we should like flood it with comments again of like public opinion. And I think there are experiences right now of people like throwing eggs into their offices or, uh.

Speaker B: Rallies. Yeah, rallies.

Speaker A: Exactly. Exactly. And I think, and obviously some people have funny, um, ideas like uh, they will catfish their boyfriend and they like something like that. Yeah, Um, I honestly, I don't know what else could be done, uh, aside from what you said also about let's be critical of the people we follow. Let's um, continue having this conversation and, and support businesses, especially small businesses. Huh huh. Because obviously like the alias they already have the money forever and ever. But like, you know, supporting your neighbor, like, who sells cement or something like that, thinking about them.

Speaker B: Carla, do you. Do you sell cement? No.

Speaker A: No. It's too bad.

Speaker B: I wanted to buy cement from you so bad.

Speaker A: I want to buy nails. Do you sell nails and like fingernails? What about bridge? Do you sell a bridge? Because I was gonna buy. I was gonna fund the whole Davao Samal. I know, but you don't.

Speaker B: I love that.

Speaker A: Yeah. So, uh, yeah, it's crazy. So in. In terms of like that topic of coverage m. Media coverage and um, documentaries, how much blame should we place on mainstream media and online platforms that glorify these lifestyles instead of questioning them? I actually saw some lifestyle magazines talk about some of these businesses that were so obviously like just glorified pieces.

Speaker B: Right. Well, um, I wouldn't go as far as blaming them. I would. I like to use the Engage instead. Um, because if you, uh, I was just looking at like a piece by ah, Fashion then a, ah, fashion platform, right? They're not as like compelling to me now because now that Vogue has come in and like Vogue is producing more stories, blah, blah. So anyway, this fashion website, this platform is quite mainstream. At some point in the past they were, I think they published one looks, uh, first and all of that. And um, I guess editors, ah, back then weren't as critical when it comes to like the story behind the person. They were just after all talking about fashion, talking about the look, right? The dress, the assembled pieces, uh, of clothes, um, and we are still able to discern the kind of um, storytelling or intention behind that piece. And I guess my recommendation for editors at some point in the future would be to really just be um, more the story they produce in the sense that don't just focus on the product, you focus on the person and their journey and how it got them. Right now your job going to highlight the summer looks of Carla Singh son. We are disregarding the journey and the process that was involved in bringing Carla to that. And that in itself is worthy of inclusion or exclusion. Depends on who you are looking at. Right? So if you are celebrating an influencer's achievement or an influencer's look, take a moment to maybe just reflect on what is the story behind that. So. And as that's something for us to ask and engage the media with.

Speaker A: So I was going to say that the. Yes, you're right. Like we can't blame the media because at the end of the day the media is catering to what the public wants what the public wants to see sometimes. And I mean I'm not gonna lie like there, there are certain things like advertorials where m. These companies pay for a story, uh, so that their story can be told a certain way. And of course this is how these media outlets stay afloat and pay their writers and editors and designers, of course. Um, and uh, I think it goes back to like how discerning, discerning people are. And for me, as long as there's no lying, like actual lying involved. Because unfortunately I don't think all media people are, that lying is beneath them. Some people definitely lie and some people definitely just follow where the money comes from. Um, but I uh, think that because there's the Internet and we can have more open, more people can have access to these conversations. I think it still goes back to your advice of uh, being critical. But now both of the media for me, both of like the media outlet and, and the story. And also I think people, people should be more uh, discerning on what kind of story they're reading. Like if it's a lifestyle story, it's a lifestyle story. You know, there's no lifestyle story that will tell their something else, you know, so.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: Yeah, you can't expect Tatler to, to deliver uh, you know, a report on corruption. Good luck.

Speaker B: I guess collectively people behind people who are producers of media and stories. You know, we tend to be just obsessed about curating or editing, you know, that we forget that, you know, um, we need to consider like other um, uh, facets of the story, like whether it is ah, really worth including in your publishing lineup or not. We, we need to be more discerning at some point because it's very easy to get excited about the story.

Speaker A: Right?

Speaker B: It's very easy to talk, to get excited about oh, I want to talk about my vacation in Paris or something like that, or oh, I want to talk about what she wore in Paris. It's so exciting. But then we forget about the many other things.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. And um, I think that especially the young people, I think that they don't, they're not really also incentivized to look further or think more. They press like, you know, the heart. It's very easy for you to press that, share something. It's very easy. This takes probably a nanosecond to decide if you want to share something or make something more famous and make that a representation of your personal beliefs and your personal like sources of admiration because these actions on social media are so quick and so fast. And so thoughtless. So you have a nephew. No, Jesse. Uh, you have nephews, you have nieces, you have Angelo who looks up to you as a role model. Uh, do you have conversations with younger people of younger generation about what's happening right now and what are these conversations like if ever?

Speaker B: Well, I can only go as far as speaking to the Gen Z, not to like kids uh, at the age of like 12.

Speaker A: Yeah, they're not on private jets.

Speaker B: But um, you know what I like about uh, my younger peers, right? Like the younger sister of my friend, your younger sister for example, they are very receptive to these conversations and they want to become a part of a conversation that matters. It's just that I guess they're confused or they don't know where to begin. And so, and what's worse is they are dominated by all of these um, social media content that, that is essentially just telling them to follow and to do um, what is asked of them. Influencer things. Right. So I guess um, the kind of uh, the kind of uh, springboard that they require to be able to participate in more impactful conversations are this us listening to us being able to find that um, more tangible uh, idea of our example of the bigger picture where they are affected and uh, starting there, using their voice to express how they feel about it and making as you said uh, earlier, making the experience more granular and close to home.

Speaker A: Yeah, I like that. And like what you shared earlier about like just constantly reminding that the importance of growing up and providing value to society is tied to hard work and tied to education, following the proper path. No, uh, right, and maybe repeating stories of people who have done it, glorifying our friends who have done it. I think like these little day to day things can, can really make a difference. And of course the other side of it is yes, resenting, resenting these icons, these families that are corrupt and have obviously um, operated their lives through ill gotten wealth and, and trying to, to pass that off as influence. I uh, think that there's definitely a lot to be done in terms of shaping that conversation, shaping that narrative so that we can at least in our own way know like influence our younger, the younger generation to think like how, how they're supposed to.

Speaker B: Totally. Yeah. And I like that you, you brought this up because um, uh, I think there ah, a bunch of research that it's pointing to more uh, wider access of media and technology among the younger age and um, they need, they do need to be equipped with how to process the information that comes to them and how they can, in return, um, form their ideas and participate in the conversation.

Speaker A: Yeah, like, it's. You know, you're already online, so you might as well give, um, yourself a lot of resources or expose yourself to the right types of influence. So, last question first. This is quite a personal question. Did your life change when this, um, when this issue blew up? Or did what clicked in you? What, What. You know, is there something. What deep thoughts did you have? I'm just curious.

Speaker B: Well, it gave. This whole episode gave me a better appreciation of influencer culture because it made, um, everything so transparent. It's so, um, easily accessible and tangible. Uh, on the other hand, of course, it's disheartening. I am not as debilitated personally, but there's that lingering feeling in my head that is constantly reminding me to be critical, but to also exercise, like, a sense of censorship, because I am. I am at this point afraid to, um, verbalize my thoughts and opinions. But I'm glad that I have you and you just enable that because, uh, we need these conversations. It's just that, uh, at some point, maybe they will be taken up, uh, used against us. And then, you know, these people in power, they want to silence the. This kind of conversation, but there's already many of us talking about it, and we thank the Internet for that. That finally, you know, there's democracy at work. There's. There's watchdogs everywhere. The only danger is that the, um, information can be, uh, too overwhelming, and then we no longer know whom to listen to. So it pays to strike, um, a good balance of listening and also expressing.

Speaker A: Yeah. Actually, to be. To be honest, my. My initial feeling was, how can I pay less taxes? Like, oh, my God, this is so annoying. How can I pay.

Speaker B: That's valid.

Speaker A: Yeah. I was like, how can I give the least amount of money to the government? Of course, you know, um, innocently. Like, uh, not innocently, but, like, that's a very shallow way of thinking, I would say. Of course, our taxes still fund a lot of very legitimate projects. And I have been a, uh, benefit. I have benefited from, um, a lot of government projects. But of course it annoys me that, you know, I hear this news. So I. I don't live in the Philippines now, right. So I hear this news about, like, philhealth, like, going bankrupt or something like that. Like, obviously there's no truth to it, but, like, all of these government, um, departments or initiatives that are losing budget, and then the other side of that is there's these ghost projects, flood control projects. They're not even doing well. And so it, for me as a business owner. No. Who has paid taxes and have people who pay taxes. Like, I employ people. So, meaning like I, I make it, I'm also a channel for them to pay taxes. Um, it, it really makes, gives me a very conflicting feeling of, well, what else is there to do? No, it also honestly makes me feel a little helpless. A little helpless because, like, I can't not help fund the police or the, you know, or Phil Health or something like that. Like, these are services that, that um, are needed for the Filipino. But the, is there a way for us to actually know where our taxes go and be more critical about that? I honestly don't know. Honestly, it makes me feel a little helpless. I felt resentment. And yes, I will do the small thing as like, I will support small businesses more. I will be more mindful. Uh, but at the end of the day, aside from being loud on social media, I honestly don't know what else I could do.

Speaker B: Right. I, I, I, I totally get where you're coming from and I empathize because, um, it is frustrating, it is maddening, and, um, I can't help but, but think, you know, um, when will this end and will the day ever come?

Speaker A: Yeah, it all goes back to the meteor just hit the earth. Just kidding.

Speaker B: When will that meteor come? Or when will our trust in, um, the higher power come back? Right. Because right now there are so many voices that are just coming in and out and they are, to me, making us feel overwhelmed and helpless. And, um, it's important that, yes, we have these conversations and to also really just be hopeful that, yeah, at some point we are going to live better days, but maybe not anytime soon. So better hope, better pray for that meteor.

Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I know. And, um, on that note, I just remember that there are some people that are really standing out in this issue, like Vico, Soto, Deba. He has quite, I like that he's

Speaker B: so vocal about it.

Speaker A: He has a reputation for being one of the good guys and I hope that he's one of the good guys, really. And, um, and I've also seen some celebrities that are, um, you know, and a lot of business people actually that are also voicing out how, um, about this issue. I think Angie Mead King her post, she's really, uh, gung ho about, uh, about this. So I love that more people with influence are also in this fight with us. I think that's the part that make me, like, not feel as helpless and sad and just purely we're not alone.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker A: You're not alone. Exactly. I think more Filipinos should feel that, that they're not alone. Because if your life is tough and if you're trying to make it to your next paycheck, and if you know secretly in your heart that you're one hospital bill away from being, uh, deep in debt, like that feeling, that feeling makes you hate so easily.

Speaker B: That's so true.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, you, you have a stable job and, and, and some investments and some savings. I, I, um, have a business, some investment, some savings. So our reality is very different from the regular Filipino that's trying to get by meteor.

Speaker B: Please, what is, what's wrong if you, what's your, like, takeaway from, from this episode of our lives?

Speaker A: Huh? Huh? My takeaway. The first thing that comes to my mind right now is it opened my eyes on actually how uncritical we are, um, as a society, uh, and how we don't question a lot of things more.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Um, it made me think if that is because of our, the Filipinos attitude of being people pleasing, service oriented. We have been colonized so many times, we are known to be more like submissive in terms of a society. And um, I also realize how there's not enough punishment, um, for both punishment and incentive that I realized that there's not enough punishment for people that are doing these bad things, corrupt things. And I also realized the incentive for these things getting caught is not highlighted. Like, uh, like I shared earlier, if, if these people with resources, these families and companies with resources can do something, um, that they can also be incentivized for it. I think, I think that they will do it. Um, but I, I don't think there's enough incentive. Um, I think those are like my takeaways. And in my personal life, my personal life, actually, I, I felt a renewed sense of pride, honestly, that I built everything I built through. I'm not self made in a way that I did not get help or I did not have privilege. I definitely had some privilege in terms of my parents being smart, my parents being amazing parents, uh, some people who have introduced me and brought me in rooms where I didn't even belong just so I can expand my network. So I, uh. But in a way I felt, ah, a renewed sense of pride that I worked hard, um, for everything that I, I've earned and uh, enough to, to make me look at things critically. I think that's, I love that. Yeah. What about you? You made me think, huh?

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker A: I feel so sad about all the reasons I was talking about earlier and helplessness.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: Um, well, definitely one is like my confidence in, like in the collective, uh, because of the collective sentiment, um, my confidence in my fellow Filipinos have been renewed. That, you know, all of us really are still hopeful for that day, that we are all going to live better lives. But it's not going to be easy for us to get there. The conversations are really going to get ugly as we are, ah, as we see right now. But, um, there's that sense of hope. That's one. And number two, I guess, um,

Speaker A: this

Speaker B: episode is teaching me so many things about our use of the platforms, the media platforms that we have right now. We have everything that we need to send out a message, but we are left, ah, to our own devices. Whether we produce a message of hope or a message of extravagance, um, we are being given the chance and freedom to choose. What do you want to tell to your thousands of followers every day? Right.

Speaker A: Mhm. Mhm.

Speaker B: There's that. So, um, hope and a sense of freedom. Um, the possibilities are endless. It's just not going to be perfect.

Speaker A: Ah, uh, yeah, I like that. I like that. Especially like you said, we all have access to the Internet and we actually all have voices. No. And that gives me hope as well. Um, so, yeah, it's going to be a very telling time. It's going to be a very telling time on, uh, who will be on whose side. Uh, so I hope, Jesse, that no one from the Nepo baby accounts and the questionable, uh, corrupt families will try to court you or try to, uh, propose marriage. Because I think you will say yes and dive into the life of extravagance. And you will.

Speaker B: And, and, and, and just like that, you will stop hearing from me. I will live a very private life.

Speaker A: Exactly. So that is, that is the ending of this. I know. Um, and then you will pay me, like, shut up. Money to delete this episode.

Speaker B: And of course, yeah, you'll be for you're foremost in mind.

Speaker A: Yeah. And you will set up my account in the Cayman Islands and you know, and then, and then I'll see you there in the Baja.

Speaker B: Yeah, we'll see each other there.

Speaker A: So. Yeah. My hope and prayer is that no amount of money can make us actually give up our, uh, our values.

Speaker B: I love that. Uh, thank you for reminding me. I will do my best.

Speaker A: I will do your best. I say do your best. So. Yeah. Well, Jesse, thank you so much. This has been a really amazing conversation. I got to tap into the PRU the journalist you. The Filipino you, the, you know, the, the, the regular human, uh, inside you. So I'm, I'm.

Speaker B: And the Nepo baby wannabe. Me.

Speaker A: Nepo baby wannabe. Exactly. And, and, or a, ah, future Nepo baby fiance. I think that is the only way that, that you will shut up or that you will stop. I know. Believing your values if you're offering.

Speaker B: Just kidding. Correct. Well, thank you to Carla for having me. I like that, uh, this conversation. Yeah. Uh, shared a sense of hope and really an appreciation of like small businesses and like the people who are working hard to just find success, you know, in, in a way that is not dictated by consumption. Lifestyles today.

Speaker A: Yeah. So if any one of you listeners have an ah, assignment today, number one, support a small business.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: That you know, is built by an honest, hard working person.

Speaker B: And I'm like, Carla.

Speaker A: Yes. Shout out. And number, number two is report the social media. Just kidding. Report the social media account of the Nepo baby. No, I'm just kidding. But uh, yeah, live. Live your life in a way that you can be proud of. That's it.

Speaker B: Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Thank you, Carla. This has been very inspiring and uh, very thought provoking.

Speaker A: All right, thank you so much, Jesse. And to everyone, to all of our listeners, if you love this episode, please, uh, share it to someone that you really care about and someone that you want to have these conversations with and spare a little bit of time for reflection before you go and work to pay your taxes to give to these Napo babies. Thank you so much and uh, see you guys, um, in a few weeks for another episode of none of your business.

Speaker C: Bye.

Speaker A: So it's a wrap to my entrepreneur friends. I hope that you found this episode interesting and enjoyable. I know I did. Big thanks to our sponsor, Proximity Outsourcing for making this possible. If you need to outsource anything in your business so you can scale fast and easy, visit proximityoutsourcing.com and check out their solutions. If there's any topic that you want to request, feel free to reach out. I only have two conditions. You tell me why you find it interesting and you promise it's not business talk. Find, uh, us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube and leave us a comment or review because you're cool like that. This is your host, Carla. And thank you so much for joining me. Thank you for your interest in fun stories. Now we can get back to business. See you next week. And remember, everything here is none of your business.