Turning Partnerships into Superpower | Sandeep Nagpal | B2B Marketing Shepherd Rajesh Kumar | EP 06

Speaker A: Foreign. Decoding B2B marketing with Rajesh Kumar

Speaker B: welcome to the new episode of decoding B2B marketing on B2B Marketing shepherd channel. I am Rajesh Kumar and thankful that you're tuning in today. Starting with alcohol, chewing gum, um, and onward to Internet and software. This is where I've had most fun. B2B marketing can feel daunting at first instance. There is so much that goes into it. That's why I put this podcast together to help simplify, explain the industry terms, bring clarity and build marketing that works effectively. I've been also working on a book that comes out soon on Amazon. Stay tuned. Every week I'll sit down with an expert B2B marketer who has been there, done that. I will unpack what's real, what's pragmatic, and how to use the knowledge to build a career and business. Starting right now. And that will include all things AI. How it is changing every aspect of B2B marketing today. Today I'm taking my podcast with an industry respected B2B marketer guest Sandeep Nagpal, SVP and head of global marketing CoE in India at Cvent. An amazing professional, but even more amazing human being who has navigated through immense personal trial which I've been personal witness to. Rising like a phoenix every time. Not only that, rising up to help the broader community facing similar challenges. He has a proven track record in all aspects of B2B marketing and adept at what you call turning complex marketing into real results. And today we will dive into how you can turn channel and partner marketing ecosystem into your superpower in B2B. Ready? Let's decode it together. Hi Sandeep, thank you for joining us today. I am curious to know what got you into B2B marketing. What keeps you here, run so far, what's been, what have been your highs and lows and would you do it all over again if you had a choice?

Speaker A: Thank you Rajesh, first of all for having me here. And um, it's a privilege to uh, sit across you and have this conversation. Um, yeah, I mean, um, as they say, somebody wrote a book called Accidental Prime Minister. So I'm an accidental marketer. Um, as you are aware, I'm a

Speaker B: good one at that.

Speaker A: So, uh, as you're aware. So I started my journey in manufacturing a long, long, long back, um, so in 93 or something, um, was part of Honda, New Holland tractors, Canon, uh, primarily into manufacturing, procurement, supply chain, I don't know what not. And then there was this um, call from Microsoft in 2000, uh, which I was not prepared for. And there was a call from a recruiter or whatever and they called me. I had just finished my mba so um, I had a self doubt whether they really were hunting for me or something. But then it happened and I um, was selected for Microsoft and then there was no looking back. And part of that you were part of that journey as well.

Speaker B: At least two companies we worked together.

Speaker A: Yeah. Uh, so yeah, I think um, uh initially I was part of the marketing programs and operations um in the first few years of being in Microsoft and then of course being part of Microsoft subsidiary, um people like you and professionals uh, who really inspired and um, that got me into B2B because um, that's what I came across. Not like you who was part of the B2C as well. So I kind of landed in B2B and remained here. Right. So um, the fun part about that is that um, that Microsoft was probably the most uh, revered company at that point of time. Uh. Right. Uh, and it had all the ingredients, it had um, the best of the professionals, uh, who you kind of look upon. It had the best of the channel, it had the best of the products. So what better uh, thing to keep you engaged. Right?

Speaker B: I don't know if you know I was also experiment at Microsoft. They were starting SMB and then they said let's hire somebody from consumer marketing and First.com, the startup I joined that failed and I was looking for a job and that's how I joined. Only after coming in I realized oh you know this is a company which has so much of weight around it.

Speaker A: So yeah, so I think that was it. So I think that that glued me into B2B marketing and then of course gradually into channel and mid market space and SMB space. And then India was at that point of time the cusp of growth. Right. So SMBs, uh were growing, partner ecosystem was being built up. So I accidentally, as I said accidentally got involved into it and never looked back. So um, will I do it ever again? Of course. I mean there is no the amount of challenges, um, you know the complexity, the growth, the evolution of channel or evolution of B2B marketing. And now more so with AI coming in and all this stuff and the SaaS ecosystem developing in India and across the world. I think uh, there is no dearth of challenges. Uh and as a marketer you always want to look upon newer things as your own personal growth.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean that is one of the things I want to talk about in my book as well. I want to bring to our uh, readers and audience and viewers is that B2B is actually a very exciting as well as a rewarding place to be. There is like full 360 degree business marketing. There is opportunity to learn, grow, contribute, make a really good career and that you will see through all the guests we host on this show. I mean not everybody started with a plan to get to B2B but now it is at a stage where you can choose to do so. Sandeep, tell me you've been connected to channel partner, alliance, uh, ecosystem in so many of your assignments and you've seen it really end to end. So explain to us what is the role of channel in B2B business? Why do you need them and how do they add value?

Speaker A: Very good question. Uh, Rajesh, I think uh, fundamentally what you need to believe in is that you need to be in front of your customer or your product needs to be in front of the customer. Uh, but you cannot always be available in front of the customer. So you can create brand, you can do all of that stuff. But the buying in B2B happens through trust circles. So the channel partner is your trust extended trust partner in the customer ecosystem. So uh, people don't trust salespeople, of course. They always expect that there'll be a salesy call or somebody's up, uh, to sell something to them, all this stuff. But partners are one space which actually is in the inner circle of the customers and they know the pipe before you know. Right. So they are your force multi multipliers. So if you use and you have to think about channel, you have to think about it as your extension. You also have to think about uh, them as your brand advocates and in the current scenario also your customer success scale in the market. Right. So with all AI and all this will come in. So I think the channel partner is an absolutely uh, essential uh, ingredient of a B2B marketing space, especially in technology, but of course in the other parts of the uh, B2B marketing as well.

Speaker B: Tell me. I. Nowadays, especially with SaaS coming in, I see so many companies going direct. It's become easier to deliver the product, it's easier to reach people online. How do you see the role of channel in that environment? Are we missing something or It's.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think uh, it's a myth that everything can be done direct just because you have a bigger reach. Right. So see you have uh, that the way I put it is that AI has enabled a cheap content and a uh, very easy reach. What is the currency Today is the trust. So AI is not trust, right? Who is your trust is your network and that network is your channel. Therefore channel becomes even more important because today customer is inundated with content. They don't know what is right, what is wrong, and more so with the AI uh coming in. Right? So somebody has to decipher it for them, right? And will it be, will it be your ds? You can make as many calls, but who trusts who, right? At the end of the day it becomes even more important for somebody to have a trusted advisor among the maze of content available. And that is what the channel partner is. Now in the earlier days there used to be very organized players like distributors like Ingram Micro or the system integrators and all this stuff. That part has changed, the roles have changed. So in the SaaS environment, I think um, uh, the ecosystem players, the marketplace players, you would have seen AWS or Snowflake or those have become marketplaces. So I think the way the SaaS operators have to play is also play on the ecosystem play, they have to play on the platform play. Somebody can integrate into you. Can you go together in the market? Every player cannot go and create a brand. Every player cannot go and create a reach. And sales cycles will always be so long for every player, right? So you need a consolidator, you need an aggregator, you need somebody who can, who is the trusted partner of the customer, right. Who can take complementary solutions together. That is a space that is getting developed right now. Earlier it was an organized play. Now we have to create that space and I think that is what is getting created especially for Indian ecosystem.

Speaker B: And I think the cost and effort required is humongous to do it on your own. And you don't have. This is the area of specialization, right? So you don't have expertise or the wherewithal to do everything.

Speaker A: Oh absolutely. In fact I was reading somewhere that on an average uh, product that we see From a SaaS ecosystem perspective, the average ARR is about 7k. The cost of acquisition is multifold. Right? So now think about it, right? So even if it is double, right. So if you're spending 14k to get a 7k, right. Uh, and every SaaS player has to do that. Imagine the complexity of that.

Speaker B: I think rather than being protective about your pie, you can expand the pie and everybody wins.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: So at this point I want to ask, because you've seen the Microsoft partner ecosystem and then you've seen very industry verticalized and consulting oriented ecosystem of company like SAP, what are the different types of partners. And why do they matter? Because partner ecosystem is a large. With so many types of partners we understand only one channel partner but so much more beyond this. Right? Yeah.

Speaker A: I think a lot of people actually think of uh, partner and channel as reseller partners. Right. So reseller partner is one pie which used to be traditional reseller partners whether it is SaaS or technology or non technology player. Yeah simplest that you need an extension where you can't reach. You get a partner to reach. But they used to be there were value added resellers who used to provide implementation services and now uh, they have evolved into providing the configuration services because SaaS is more self configured or provisioned software and all stuff. So that is one scheme of partners which are resellers, value added resellers. Then you have ISVs and SIs, uh who are basically or strategic uh you know integrators and all this stuff. Right. So people like um, you know ey and you know uh, those kind of players uh, who actually are uh consultants. Right. So ISVs will be solution are the providers who actually build solutions on your platform or your solutions. Right. Um and they are verticalized into, they specialize into a vertical, they understand a vertical. For example you have a Microsoft and then you have a healthcare uh person who understands healthcare space. So they will build a solution on Microsoft stack to go into healthcare. So those are ISV players and then there are large system integrators as I mentioned who bring in various solutions of various partners together to create a solution into a large customer. Then of course there are new age uh players like um, as I mentioned ecosystem players. So who, who are um. Amazon technology partners. Technology partners. Right. Um and more than technology partners they're also now marketplace. So you don't have to. So they have a stack, you have a cloud partners, you have a stack on AWS or you have a snowflake as a data warehouse. You actually have a marketplace for them and you have a complimentary.

Speaker B: But you know all of them have marketplace for their platform only. Is there any player or do you think space for a player which has a multi platform marketplace?

Speaker A: Well, uh, I haven't seen one off late. Um, but, but the solution providers who are there on the uh, let's say on aws they are not exclusive to aws. Right. So a partner would have a solution on AWS and also on another cloud. Right. Because they are not.

Speaker B: Yeah, but you will see them in different places. I'm buying a solution, I'm not buying platform happens to be. But these marketplaces are motivated by interest of the company making the platform.

Speaker A: Correct, correct. Uh, but what happens also is that there is a portability. Right. So you could have a solution on a AWS stack, but you also have then portability onto this thing. So it depends on your stack. Then there comes the CIO and the CTO play, uh, of how they want to configure their. Therefore the system integrators come into the play. Therefore the only other factor, the only other kind of partner that doesn't normally get into a partner scheme of things is consultants.

Speaker B: I was going to ask that. Yeah.

Speaker A: So I think a uh, lot bigger play is now starting to come in the consultant space. For example, higher education. Right. For example, um, uh, you know, uh, oil and gas. These are very specialized verticals where people with careers actually have relationships. They have worked in the larger organizations, people who are retired professionals. They have taken the mantle of being, you know, uh, providers because people trust them. So they become providers and therefore they can be an absolutely fantastic channel.

Speaker B: I mean not only when you chunk one step above. If you look at strategic consulting firms like McKinsey BCG been, nothing is untouched by technology today. If you talk about our domain of software and infotech and if you're doing a big thing like uh, digital transformation or even AI today, it's a CEO's question.

Speaker A: True. I mean they don't want to call them partners for sure, uh, for the strategic reasons because they are more consultants in a different. For a technology company, they would prefer to be neutral and yeah, whatever designation

Speaker B: you used to use them in Microsoft.

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker B: You had a very strong relationship and

Speaker A: they would, they are definitely very strong influencers. Definitely strong influencers into the deals, especially

Speaker B: for big strategic investments.

Speaker A: 100%.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: It makes so much sense. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker B: Now tell me, having said that, how do you think now from a marketing perspective, you know, how do you attract different types of partners? How do you enable them? In fact, even before attract, how do you engage them, you know, bring them to your fold? How do you get them to sign on, enable them and get them to deliver business benefit for you? Of course, you know, making sure they also win in the process.

Speaker A: Yeah, so. So you said it right. I mean at the end of the day, partner is there to make money. Right. So if you can't create a value for them, uh, you wouldn't be able to attract what I normally see, uh, is that a, uh, lot of time the word is used, partner recruitment. I kind of have a little bit of a repulsion, uh, to that recruitment Thing because you can't recruit partners. You need to attract them. You need to attract them for a value proposition. And because they are by nature of being partner non exclusive then your value proposition has to be better than anybody else. I think it is almost like selling it to a partner. Therefore this whole two partner uh, marketing comes into the play that you actually tell them why should they work for you? So it's almost like proposing to them saying uh, work for me. And if you don't have a good value proposition, they're not going to work for you. So I think there is an important uh, element of creating the right value, creating the right uh, proposition, making them feel loved, um, and taken care of. And they need to have, because they are the trust of your customer, you need to keep their trust as well. So I think they need to have that faith in you. And therefore uh, you need to find the right fitment um, based on your go to market plan. So if you are focused on a vertical better go and look for the best in the class who have proven themselves and then pretty much go pitch like a, like a vc, right? I mean you're going and talking to them and telling them why they should look for you. Right? And be selective about it. You don't have to spread because then you come across channel conflicts and all of this stuff. So be selective about it. Make sure that you have a very clear uh, tiered strategy. Where do you want to take your partners to and all this stuff. So I think important is that you have a good partner strategy. Why do you need a partner and what kind of partner do you need? And based on that you create a value proposition and reach out to the right ones and then of course uh, um, enable them um, both through partner and with partner which we.

Speaker B: You've been a part of designing various partner programs and seeing some of the best in business. So talk to us about what makes for a good partner program.

Speaker A: I think uh, the most important part of the partner program is value proposition for the partner and also the tiering from a. What do you want to achieve out of the partner program? Is it the reach? Is it the value? Is it the uh, niche? Right. Um, are you going in for? So we talked about various kinds of partners that could be a good categorization. Where do you need an si, where do you need a consultant? Where do you need and which particular segmentation um, of your customer needs? What kind of partners? For example, your enterprise play would have strategic partners who have larger enterprise play, who are more in depth, uh, uh, From a digital transformation, uh, initiatives of the customer, large customers or who are bringing in larger technology together and proposing as part of the RFPs or because they are the larger players, they're bringing in multiple complementary partners together. So uh, you need to have a strategic partner program uh, which actually caters to your enterprise play. Then you have a mid market play where you have solution partners which could be based on your segmentation. Um, for example in Microsoft days, so we used to have Microsoft certified solution partners which used to be, you are certifying a solution partner for a particular category of your solutions. So uh, for example office space uh, in Microsoft or for example the service space in Microsoft or for that matter uh, even in the space of uh, the new age technologies that we were having on visuals and all this stuff. So every technology has a niche and then they need to have uh, a catchment area where they can actually go and propose. So you need to have a clear go to market strategy. You need to have various tiers and then based on those tiers you need to have a very clear um, articulated value proposition for the partner. If you can create that, there is no limit to a tiers. Microsoft had hundreds of different kinds of solution providers and all that stuff. But uh, and uh, but there are partners today who are only three tiered, right. For example there is a reseller partner, there's a value proposition partner which is the solution partner and then there is strategic partner smaller players today the SaaS players today should focus first on getting their strategy very clear, stratified and then look for niches as they develop into the vertical strategy or whatever. So depending upon the need, there's no one size fits all but you need to put some structure to that.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean we are getting more and more specialized businesses. They don't have the scale and wherewithal to manage too many. Yet it's important lever uh, for their growth.

Speaker A: Correct. For example, let's take example of an A.I. uh, ChatGPT kind of solution. Ah. You know uh, today a lot of content engines are available. They are horizontal solutions. They can be applied to anything. Right. Any customer can buy that solution. But then you have hundreds of them. Now how do you really create a structure? So if you want to focus on a certain vertical, let's say somebody wants to go only after technology vertical, then you create a partner ecosystem which caters to that particular vertical rather than going for generic reseller partners who will go anywhere and everywhere and not able to tell your value proposition. So based on how we grow and how you want to grow into your.

Speaker B: So that also brings me to the point. How do you enable partners?

Speaker A: That's a very good question. I think uh, uh when you do through partner uh marketing which is basically earlier uh, it used to be more about MDF giving them, you know, giving them some sales enable.

Speaker B: So for our viewers and listeners, MDF is a market development fund which is a uh, part of the revenue from that partner that the principal companies give back to them to do joint marketing. There are different terms. Market development fund, business development fund and so on. Back to you Sandeep.

Speaker A: So um, I think what they used to do earlier was providing MDF to the partner and then partner goes and does trade shows and uh, various kind of email marketing and all this stuff. Right? The world has changed so AI has enabled everything now. So I think what is most important right now to do is use the AI, create templates, provide them with all AI enabled uh joint marketing um material whether it is your websites, whether it is your content, whether it is your um, collaterals, um scripts, enable that M because it's so cheap now and it's so easy to reach and scale. Uh, I think there is a lot of merit in creating a lot of content which you don't have to burden them to create the content, all this stuff, right? So create that content for them, train them in the focus area, how they can actually articulate the value proposition for you in the end customer conversation. I think even more important is with partners now the world is moving away from only doing through partner and brand is sitting outside and thinking that the partner will take it. Brand has to start putting their skin into the game. And with partner marketing comes into play where you do a uh, joint planning, joint ABMs, uh create the funnel together, share the funnel, share the intelligence, insights so that you create enough and more material for them to be more trustworthy. And not only do they play on their trust but also on the insights and depth of understanding of your product and solution and the space that you are operating in so that it reinforces their uh, knowledge about your product and they are able to articulate more uh, I think a joint review of funnel with them and enabling them how to remove the hurdles is very important. So it is pretty much like running your own sales engine but it is being done by somebody who's more closer to the customer.

Speaker B: Share with us some good examples of to, through and with partner marketing you've seen in your career.

Speaker A: I think uh, through partner marketing was uh, you know in Microsoft there was amazing two partner marketing which at that time it was more recruitment to begin with and all the stuff. Right. So how do you really go out in the. Because Microsoft was expanding in the country, so how do you really go identify what kind of solutions are being provided in the market and then uh, tell people about the technology? At that time people didn't know about technology and today it's the same scenario because AI is so pervasive. Right. So in between there was a little bit more consolidation for 10, 15 years where the market was playing in a certain way. Now again there is so much more happening. So um, it's about telling your product recruiting in the old world, uh, going and telling partners what is available which they haven't seen earlier and then uh, making sure that they see value of taking your product into the market. So that is what I've seen in Microsoft a lot about how to go hunt for partners who will potentially be your extended arm, uh, in various markets, in various verticals. Um, I think through partner is a lot that I've seen um, again in Microsoft as well as in SAP, uh, and even in Nokia for that matter. Right. Uh, so, uh, that there were a lot of partners, reseller partners. In Nokia for example, you actually train them on brand. You train them. If you recall, there used to be so many SKUs on, on mobile phones. What is the different value proposition for each of the phone? Why should a person buy one phone versus the other? You've seen the in uh, store operators, Right. Who used to uh, place industry vertical

Speaker B: campaigns were a great example or even those targeted to SMB where the partner led the motion.

Speaker A: More in SAP, right?

Speaker B: Yeah, more in SAP. But it was a joint campaign because it was not like one or the other.

Speaker A: Correct. And I think one of the best through partner uh, uh, marketing that we saw uh, in your times, uh, was the Ambition Express bus that we took. Right. So about 10,000 kilometers in the country going to various.

Speaker B: So why don't you talk a little bit, tell our audience and if you have a picture, pull it out. We'll put it for people to see.

Speaker A: So that was a very interesting uh, time when uh, you challenged us uh, of you know, thinking, breaking through the clutter, uh, and um, see how we can take a B2C model, which was considered to be a B2C model of going home to home or door to door and try and see how we create and evangelize uh, our solutions. Because people, there's very hard way of creating brand in the hinterland of the country. Exactly. Uh, so that idea was conceptualized and I think I'll take 30 seconds to explain. That idea was conceptualized when we brought in um, uh, we thought of creating a showcase bus, uh, which had all different kinds of solutions, different cloud solutions m that SAP was coming up with and the traditional solutions. And we said the best way to take it to market is, and especially the SMB clusters is the um, let's put all the solutions into our bus. Let's take them to various clusters, SMB clusters in the country and let's make sure that uh, we carry the partners in their local markets along who are specialists on those solutions and get the CEOs and the CxOs and the users to experience firsthand of what those solutions are and what they can do for you. So that was conceptualized and we called it an Ambition Express, I think Innovation Express and not Ambition Express. Innovation express. In the first lap, about 5,000 km in the country, about 10 different clusters from I think Bombay to or uh, Mumbai to um, Chennai I think in the first lot. And uh, it was an amazing experience. Uh, we went uh, door to door, um, we went door to door on uh, various SMB clusters, automotive cluster, pharmaceutical cluster, Pune, Ahmedabad, um, I think we went to Tirupur, Coimbatore, Bangalore, I don't know where. Not um, and it was an amazing eye opening experience for us for sure because we learned a lot, partners learned a lot and also customers learned a lot. Um, uh, and then we said oh, we should extend it because we've been to the south of India and we should take it to north of India. So uh, again I think about 35 different odd partners were participating. It was about a uh, $200,000 investment through MDF that you mentioned. Uh, um, and all strategic partners were part of that. Also the reseller partners, the value added

Speaker B: reseller partners, I remember they all wanted to be part. So prestigious and fun.

Speaker A: Yeah. And the interesting part of that whole conversation, whole of the campaign, the first lap, was that we learned so much that we actually changed the messaging right from Innovation Express. We said, you know, people are looking for ambition. They're very ambitious people. And we called it I think Ambition Express. Right. So uh, very interesting. Uh, uh, um, I will be happy to share those pictures. But it is very, very. It was such an amazing and immersive experience. What I learned out of that is that partners learn with you and they put your. Once you make them believe in your vision, they put a lot of trust in it. A lot of money came from partners and I think it was about $150 million odd plus pipeline that got generated through that. It was amazing, amazing experience.

Speaker B: Long term, uh, brand strength. Absolutely.

Speaker A: And I think it was then emulated by a lot of other brands and got uh, a repeat in SAP as well. So it's just amazing. Right.

Speaker B: So tell me Sandeep, uh, how do you plan budgets in channel marketing or partner marketing? It's such a broad area. Who pays for what, how do you share, you know, how do you support partners, how do you get them to invest, how to think about it, put some framework.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think um, mostly see other than the initial investments which you do in partner enablement, which brand does. Right. Which is part of the brand investment from making uh, the enablement, getting them the right technology, giving them labs, hands on experiences. Those kind of budgets and those kind of investments come from brand. However the rest of the marketing budgets normally come from uh, the MDF fund and some co investments from the partners. So that is how the budgeting happens. But I think that sometimes feels very limiting. Right. Because when you start seeing when partner in isolation it's like what would you do in a $10,000. Right. Or whatever. Right. So uh, but as an aggregate, see that's what, that is what the value is. Right. You have a vertical partner in Indore who's doing soybean or fmcg, uh, sector work. And then there is also a construction, um, specific uh, vendor or partner. Right. Both of them put together is $20,000. If you bring the value together of the brand and to the reach it suddenly becomes double.

Speaker B: Yeah, like 10 or 15 or 20 or something.

Speaker A: And that's what was the strength of this uh, through partner thing which also became part of our budget. Uh, we wouldn't have thought of doing A$200.

Speaker B: It's not easy to use normally. This is difficult.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Such a process oriented thing, it becomes a challenge on its own.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's a global challenge. Uh because if you look at it from a governance, an audit and you know, uh, channel managers shy away from pushing uh, usage of MDF because it comes into audit and financial stuff and everything.

Speaker B: Role of rebates and incentives and motivating

Speaker A: partners, that normally comes from the bdf. Uh, uh, but that is more like a promo rebate that also drives behavior.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker A: It does, it does. Uh, but it's seasonal. Right. You can't keep it for short term benefits. It is, MDF is long term because

Speaker B: it is part of their pips for partners.

Speaker A: Exactly. So uh, that's more like incentives the way you do it for your salespeople. And all stuff. From marketing perspective, more of MDF will play a role. But an aggregate value of MDF is a huge value. And if you can structure it in a more coherent way and you create a, a larger program, a larger brand visibility, that gives you immense value, um, to the partners, uh, as a whole. And with AI and all the stuff coming in, the cost of creating content, cost of creating reach is so low now. So you don't really need to spend MDF there. You need to really bring in those kind of.

Speaker B: Especially when you want to multiply a principal piece of creative for different channels, usages, languages, markets.

Speaker A: You could again structure it in a way that you can bring it together as central and just replace the logos and all stuff. Right? Yeah.

Speaker B: So tell me, we're getting towards the latter half of our conversation. How do you measure success and ROI of your effort in channel and partner marketing?

Speaker A: It's a good question. Every time, uh, a uh, channel is analyzed, I think it's, it's all about the last revenue, uh, in terms of revenue, uh, conversions and all this stuff. I think it is also about uh, your brand advocacy. It's about uh, renewal in current world, uh, the renewal of the current customers. Uh, it is also about your nps, right. It's also about how you really create funnel and make it consistent.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Um, it's brand trust. So what you apply for your salespeople, I think almost all plus applies to your channel. Right? Customer success is not on the head of a sales guy, but for a partner. You would want them to own the customer success. NPS is not necessarily on the sales guy. A lot of time customer success people own it. Right? That's on the partner. Uh, so I think partner, uh, owns a lot more than your typical sales guy, but also returns much better because your CAC customer acquisition cost through partner is much better than your direct channel. So that gives you the leverage of how to really measure um. So CAC could be another way to look at um, how effective is your channel efficiency?

Speaker B: We are also targeting a lot of young, uh, listeners who are coming into B2Pmarketing or are uh, desirous of coming to marketing or have been there for a little while. So what do you look for when you build channel marketing teams? What are the skills and experiences they should gather to make a mark in this area or ace this aspect if they want to grow into a more leadership role.

Speaker A: Like you, I think I've hired from all walks of life. Uh, ideally the person should be a storyteller for sure because you need to convince a, uh, lot, uh, to a channel partner to invest. Um, I only call a channel marketer, a GTM athlete, uh, who would need to understand all aspects of business. Pretty much a business owner who orchestrates not, uh, only the partner, but our own internal ecosystem. Because normally, uh, a lot of companies look at channel as a competition also because your sales guy would see as a competition. So a very important role for a channel marketer is to create that balance and also have that harmony between the direct and the indirect channel. So a person who's a great orchestrator, a person who is a great storyteller, has, uh, a business acumen, uh, from a numbers perspective and is able to bring um, back, uh, the channel asks and make sure that that is funded and planned as a larger GTM into the organization. Only then the channel marketer will be successful. Any piece of this misses, and then you will miss the whole bus because it's a puzzle. So that is, uh, that is an area which I think needs a lot of investment. It is hugely underserved. Uh, I don't think anybody has been able to, other than the normal tools that we use for any marketing. But I think the area that is very highly underserved is the partner relationship management space. Uh, if you look at, uh, we were talking about the funnel, we were talking about how we orchestrate channel and all this stuff. Lot of times the CRM plays that role. You know, what is partner sourced versus internal sourced and marketing source versus whatever. Whatever. Right. So you have different kinds of sources of, um, funnel. A lot of times the funnel slips through the crack because the partner doesn't want to give it to you, wants to own that funnel and manage it. There are very few tools today available where you can actually orchestrate the funnel that belongs to the partner and you allow democratically to manage their own funnel. Right. Um, and you still have a visibility to that channel, to that um, funnel and the progression of the funnel. Um, MDF management. Another big, big problem. You know, you and I were talking the other day. There's more than $6.5 billion of MDF sitting outside. Only in technology companies across the world.

Speaker B: Average utilization is not more than 50, 60%.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: At best.

Speaker A: Exactly. And why so? Because either they don't have the avenues or uh, there is no tool or aggregator which can help them utilize that. And it goes back to the companies. Right. So imagine if we are able to create those kind of tools which helps them manage their own funnel and still gives you the aggregated value of how the funnel is progressing and all this stuff. And imagine if that funnel progression is funded through mdfs in a transparent way and some tool can manage it. I think that is a very, very underserved area and potentially the area that somebody should look at. Um, uh, if the SaaS partners are looking and hearing it, I think that's a great opportunity for everybody to how

Speaker B: is AI coming into this area? How do you see it impacting or changing the game? Um, we spoke about some of the content areas.

Speaker A: See AI in general is a black box for a lot of, even for the regular marketing organizations. Right? So I think the easiest space for everybody is the content that's easy and that is now being anyways managed by brands. I think the uh, intent signals that the partners are getting through those tools, right? While they know the customers. But sometimes uh, you also need to corroborate what you know through the intent signals. So all of the ABM routes, right? Those are the areas which are now aified, if I may say that area. So they would probably know and reinforce into the accounts if they know that the intent signals are already uh, starting to crop up. So those are the technologies that uh, uh, are being used by partners or I would say um, are being evangelized in that space. Uh, which I think is just a start. Um, I think um, even creating case studies for example now with the whole videos and video used to be very expensive, um, uh, mechanism to get the case studies done in our times but today you could do it in a fraction of a cost and sitting remotely you could still do it, right? So I think those technologies, podcasts, blogs, I think those are the areas that were earlier all partners were dependent on brands to help them do it, which they could do it and spun it off uh, like nobody's business. Right? So I think that has really changed the content game for them.

Speaker B: Also I think the expectations have changed with the advent of social media. Less than perfect is okay in the traditional media the level of scrutiny was just too high.

Speaker A: I think the context and timing that has become so important. If you are there and with the right context you have the attention. So I think that holds true for partners as well. And I think that's the space that.

Speaker B: So now that brings me to my last question for you today Sandeep, which is what are uh, your top goos or takeaways for SaaS players to leverage channel as a superpower for marketers to make a career successful career in B2B marketing in channels and also the learnings that you feel are applicable for traditional B2B businesses, there is also increasing need for them to modernize and professionalize.

Speaker A: Right. So I think uh, for the marketers it's a great career. Right. I uh, personally believe that uh, what the direct channels are today doing, uh, I would say almost double of that can be done by through partners. I mean I might be off by a few percentage points here and there, but that is your force multiplier. And if you're thinking of career in marketing in B M2B and if a uh, partner ecosystem can create a double that value, I'm sure there is a bigger value that you can create in that career. And for a marketer, a channel marketer, the good part, as I mentioned in the earlier uh, part of our conversation is that you need to be a full stack marketer now and you also need to be a business operator. So that kind of automatically brings you because you are closer to the customer, you're closer to the partner, you're closer to the business, you're an orchestrator, you're a storyteller. So you actually create if uh, you are early part of the career, you actually create a lot of value for yourself which is so much valuable for the organization, for your growth.

Speaker B: I think that is coming out actually quite clearly in the episodes that we had, you know so far is the need for marketers to understand the business 360°. Not only business, not only all parts of marketing, but business. You know, that's what is the um, real differentiator or mantra to success.

Speaker A: Absolutely, absolutely. And who is in the best spot for that is a uh, is a channel marketer. Because, because you are actually running the business, right? You are accountable for the business. Right. So, so I think that is what for marketers, for SaaS players I would say as I said, you know, I already predicted that, you know what, what you're doing with your direct sales, if you can capitalize on channel, you can actually create a much better. Especially for Indian SaaS players who are actually targeting the US markets and all this stuff, it's hard to create brand. It's very hard to create brand for everyone. Right? So channel could be your best way of entry. Once you have a size and you have a scale, uh, and you have enough customers to talk about, then think of creating a brand of your own or a niche of your own. But leverage channel partner ecosystem or build a co uh opted model of complementary solutions together, uh, find an aggregator who can take a few uh, solutions together. Uh, that would be a much, much better approach, at least for the Indian SaaS players, I would say, even if it is a consultant, um, use a consultant route, take a few complementary solutions, crash the uh, the lead time into the account. Because if you are seeing intent signals, you're also seeing the intent signals of the complementary solutions. Right. Who are your complementary solutions? Talk to them, work with them, identify the consultants, go together, crack the deals better and faster. I think that's the second.

Speaker B: Expand the pie and get a larger share of it.

Speaker A: Exactly. Any enterprise play would take you six months. Um, and if you're competing with each other, it might extend it to nine months, not four months. Might as well take complementary and m bigger solution together.

Speaker B: Once you have more hands working on the same thing, everybody benefits.

Speaker A: Absolutely. And then you share costs and then you share the marketing.

Speaker B: Your ability to sustain goes up.

Speaker A: Absolutely. And what was your last part?

Speaker B: Uh, Indian traditional businesses.

Speaker A: Yeah. So I think, uh, the traditional businesses, if you look at um, machine tools, you look at um, any of the cement solutions. Let's put it this way, anything which is B2B. Right. Uh, I think the auto components. Correct. So all of them used to earlier. I think they are very well worth. I think they are much better off than technology companies because they have traditionally relied on distribution channels. Right. So they already have a very well established, uh, traditional distribution channels. What they are doing is they are going the reverse. They're going direct to customer. They're trying to put their own channels and E channels and all this stuff. But can they again go back and create marketplaces? So marketplaces are the most important way, uh, of managing that channel. So can you bring all your distributors, have a portal, you get the leads together and distribute it to them. That could be a great way of leveraging the new AI, the new E channel. What is much easier now to scale centrally and then distribute.

Speaker B: I think bringing technology into that because working with their principal companies.

Speaker A: Correct, correct. Because see, they are, uh, don't forget that though for these companies the channels are usually very traditional channels. They're not very tech savvy. It'll take them time to grow. So you take that mantle, bring it central. Now that we have the ability to bring all the leads central and then you know where the channel is, distribute the lead. So get faster to market. I think you are helping the channel to grow. So I think that that could be one area that I would recommend that the traditional companies should think about.

Speaker B: Thank you, Sandeep. What a way to decode channel and partner marketing. Huge. Thank you to you for taking the time to share so many insights, the evolution of channel marketing, evolution of partner ecosystem system, and the opportunity you see in the future. So if you found it helpful, I'd love you to hit a follow, leave a quick review and share this episode with someone in your network who cares about better B2B marketing and building business using B2B marketing. That way we can keep bringing you great, new innovative conversations every single week. If you got a topic or a question you want us to address, drop me a line, reach out to me on LinkedIn, or put a comment on any of the channels, video, audio podcasts that we are available on. We'll truly love to hear from you. Thank you again for listening. And remember, don't follow the herd, lead it. You are the shepherd. See you next time.