Beyond the Portal: How to Build a Partner-First Tech Stack That Actually Drives Engagement with Trevor Burnett

Speaker A: Welcome to Investable Partnerships where we talk to industry leaders about growing revenue generating partnerships. I'm your host, Des Russell and co founder of Partner Elevate. And the daily battle for partner success is forcing channel leaders to rethink how to maximize their relevance and value so they can be a driver of partner impact. So let's jump in and find out how. Hey Trevor, welcome to the Investable Partnerships podcast. It is uh, so good to have you here and you are the first technology vendor that we've had on the podcast, uh, since we launched just over 18 months ago. So welcome and uh, I'd love for you to introduce yourself to our audience and give us a little bit uh, about uh, your background and your role at uh, Impartner.

Speaker B: All right. Yeah, thank you Des. Um, I'm honored that we're the first vendor. That's pretty great. Didn't know that. Uh, but yeah, I've been with uh, impartner for over 10 years. In this stint I did a little boomerang, to use a little local term for you there. But uh, we, I was with uh, the company when there was just a tiny bootstrap, uh, starting up, left and then as new leadership came in, named it in partner. Uh, I came back and it's uh, you know, been history since then. Started as the sales, uh, engineer. So I played a lot of roles. Haven't been just doing the same thing for 20 years thankfully. Otherwise, you know, might be a little stale. But uh, yeah, every three or four years I've been uh, going into different roles. So I did sales engineering, I did product marketing and uh, then the previous stand I was more on the software development side. So I have a bit of uh, compassion and appreciation for everything that goes into each of the departments. Um, but yeah, it's uh, the whole time been working with people in the channel and learning the partnerships and you know, as we would define what is prm, I'd go to trade shows and people had no idea we were talking about. So it's been a fun evolution on the technology side to see how that all goes. And so yeah, as my new role, leading the marketing team, Adam Partner that just started earlier this year as my uh, previous boss and mentor. Sailed off into the sunset and retired. And so I got to step into his place and keep the engine going. It's been a good ride.

Speaker A: So um, when you think about it today, I mean this is a, it's a really interesting topic. Not that I think prm, partner relationship management, um, over the last maybe five or six years has matured, but it's also got a lot of, to coin an Aussie, uh, term, a lot of stick, a lot of flack because, um, of its role in driving uh, partner engagements and its centralized role in um, partner programs to um, drive the engagement with partners, but also to prove the value of partnerships. So what's happening right now in this PRM world? M. Why do you think that the, the traditional way of stacking technology to build a prm, um, is broken?

Speaker B: Yeah, it's been, like I said, it's been a big evolution over the years. It used to be PRM was more a custom website. We would just go in as kind of a managed service and say, what do you need? And just kind of do a company, uh, by company basis and build that out. Before it became more productized, a SaaS type uh, of a technology. As we recognized, there was similarities between companies that are managing a channel or having partners. You likely need deal registration, you need some sales and marketing material, sharing and training and all that. And so as we've gone from the more traditional one to one partner relationship, just working with the reseller or just working as referral into this partner ecosystem explosion, that's happened where multiple partners need to be collaborating. Uh, you know, you have somebody referring the deal and then a reseller comes in to close it and then an implementation partner comes in. You know, all of those people need to be talking to each other and maybe recommending each other. Um, so that level of collaboration needed to be translated over the technology side. So you're not having to do this all offline and disorganized. Right. As part of that whole digital transformation that we've been pushing for over a decade on this side, you know, have it where it can match the needs, uh, of the companies. Because really I look at as the technology helps you scale, but you don't ever want to take away that personal touch. Right. Those top partners, those strategic partners, you're still going to want to have that personal relationship. That's what I love about the partnerships world or the channel is, uh, it's kind of old school that way. It's all about just, you know, we're not going out and golfing maybe as much as back in the 80s and 90s to build relationships. But unfortunately I wish, but uh, you know, it still is very important to have those relationships of trust and that personal relationship so that as we help companies scale and automate and now adopt AI, that's always the word of caution, like don't over rotate like still have that personal touch you want to even in the automation, make it personal and targeted and otherwise you're just going to lose ah, partners quick.

Speaker A: And there's this um, you know, there's this uh, activity, there's this fine balance. I suppose the old way of stacking tools is um, broken. You've got this activity versus impact kind of um, and we know that activity is not the same as impact that you're actually driving. So let's talk about how to actually approach um, building a modern uh, partner first tech stack. Uh, when leaders are staring down uh, this decision between building uh, versus platform versus buying, um, versus modular um, uh, how do you think, how do you think leaders should be thinking about this today?

Speaker B: Yeah, it's interesting as you say that the building versus buy. I thought by now people would understand that it's much easier to, to buy a pre built thing than build it yourself. But we still run into that where um, it's probably a lack of understanding of what's all involved. Maybe a little hubris that yeah, we can build that no problem, but we still run into that like why don't we just build this ourselves? And big companies that we've talked to, we hear later, oh yeah, it took two years and $25 million to build our portal and it's still not done yet. And we're just going, oh, we could have saved you so much time and money. So uh, it's. Yeah. And nowadays you have a lot of different pieces of technology so it's about centralizing that data. I mentioned AI that's like, you know, take a drink every time somebody mentions that, you'll be blackout by the end

Speaker A: but you'll be really rich.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's probably a better way to put it. So yeah, uh, with A.I. you need to have clean and centralized data so you can train it, not have any blind spots, you know, remove the, or at least minimize the hallucinations, all that. So it's really important nowadays and as I talk to different analysts like Jay McBain that I think has been a previous guest on your show, he, he says that companies are now uh, integration buyers first. And so we've really dug into. Okay, let's make sure that you know, as much as our technology can be the one stop shop for everything, there are still areas where people need, you know, you have an LMS or you have uh, maybe some incentive management, other tools and you need those all to be talking to each other and have it where we create the PRM as the foundation so you can Apply AI and it doesn't have those blind spots of I have no idea what's going on in this solution or that solution, but all in one spot.

Speaker A: So where do you think companies stall, um, when they think, um, about this platform voice modular approach? Um, is it, um, at the strategy side, Is it that, um, there's integration gaps, um, is it internal alignment? How do you think about that?

Speaker B: I mean you named a lot of them that we hear. Uh, I think the most common one is strategy. As I was, would go around many times, especially in my previous, uh, role in sales engineer, and sit down with companies that have purchased us for a while or that we are still, you know, looking at that, uh, process to have them come on board. But the common theme was, uh, they just lacked a strategy. They were trying to buy the solution to fix a problem they hadn't quite figured out. And we're saying, well, you can't automate no strategy. You have to have your strategy in place and the tool will automate that. So it was a lot of discussion around, okay, what are you trying to accomplish? What are the KPIs, what do your partners need? And let's have the tool, let's configure it so it will help accomplish those. And there's a lot of looking around the room like, who's going to answer this? I don't know. Yeah. So the strategy is like the first, first thing that we say, you gotta have that and you know, let's get that figured out first and then apply the, the technology. It's a lot easier to whiteboard out ideas than try to configure things and go, that doesn't quite work. Let's do it a different way.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Just longer process. So strategy number one. Uh, second, you, you mentioned internal alignment. That's another huge challenge that a lot of people in this space, uh, deal with. I know we, we are in the community with like partnership leaders and folks like that. And uh, a lot of folks are wondering, how do I sell this to leadership? Uh, and you know, they're pushing for, well, you should have a chief partner officer. That should be a thing like get on the executive team. And that's how you solve. The whole wall of convincing the executives is just be there. And it should be a strategic, as a company approach to understand the value of partners and partnerships. So that's, that's a big challenge that I know a lot of folks, uh, face. And again, we try to help solve through technology, improving ROI and giving them those business cases.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I Mean, no two companies partner the same way. If you kind of think about it like that. Um, like there is, yes, there might be, there's a tech partner integration and there's the commonalities there and there's a channel partner, uh, program. Um, but no companies really run their programs exactly the same way. So I love frameworks and I love to help our audience really understand, um, uh, and really take some, uh, take, take a couple of points so, uh, points that they can go and apply. So if you were thinking about how to scope your uh, stack strategy, so talking to a leader and think about how to scope your stack strategy, CRM, uh, prm, lms, whatever it is, what are two or three things that you would uh, consider as uh, fundamental to um, scoping your stack strategy for any leader out there?

Speaker B: Uh, align it to what's going to be impactful for your business. Right. A lot of why partnerships work is because it's mutually beneficial. If you try to just gather partners and only want things from them, but not have anything to give them in return, you're not going to have partners for very long. This isn't a charity. We're all in business here. Um, yeah, whether that's making sure that you're making it easier to work with from a vendor perspective, you know, have that partner first approach go, okay, we know that you're not, we're not the only vendor that these partners are working with. How can we get their attention, their mind share? How can we make it so that a deal registration process isn't this arduous thing that is just. They're dreading and don't want to work with us because it's so difficult. So trying to remove those roadblocks is. And like again, just think of it from that strategic value proposition side and then you can align the technology and what you want to do first and prioritize accordingly.

Speaker A: What would you say a PRM is not?

Speaker B: A PRM is not, uh, well, it's not a CRM, I m. Guess. Right. So you're not going to try. Just like a CRM isn't a prm, we run into a lot of that. Of, oh, we can just build it in our CRM and uh, well, you know, it wasn't built for that. So yeah, just like a uh, prm. And traditionally I guess a PRM is the best way to say it is. A PRM is not what you think it was five years ago. It's been innovated. We get run into that. A lot of people try to lock PRM into this box of, oh, it's just deal reg. It's just this, you know, it's just for resellers and distributors. And we're using the same terminology as before. Sure. But it has migrated or it has evolved into for sure. Yeah. It's expanded. It's not. You know, I've seen advertising from people of, oh, uh, Purim is dead. I'm like, no, it's evolved, guys. It's just different.

Speaker A: That's like saying clickbait, uh, title.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And I keep saying that's like saying CRM is dead. No, Salesforce has innovated as an example, and so has Microsoft. It's not just the CRM. They have all these different features involved with that. And PRM has done the same thing. We've gone beyond, you know, now we have all the, the platform integration capabilities and all the dynamic reporting and everything that people, uh, have been asking for if needed.

Speaker A: Yeah. So once you've got, Once, uh, you've decided on the structure and then that, and then the direction that you want your tech stack to. To kind of take, um, the next question really comes to, or the next big conversation really comes to, well, how do you power, uh, power this? And usually this means automation. And right now we talk about this lovely, uh, these two letters, AI. Um, uh, and let's get a bit practical here because, um, I'd love to understand from your perspective, where are you seeing automation heading? And is AI actually delivering the value in partner operations or can AI deliver the value in partner operations, um, that we need?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I think, uh, we're seeing a little bit of the hype cycle with our AI as people are trying to adopt it in so many ways and trying to adopt it faster than they should, or in ways that it's not quite going to help as much or be as impactful. Just to check the box that, yes, we're using AI now. So I, uh, have seen it effective in some ways, but I read an article where it said something like, uh, within two years, 60% of AI projects will be canceled because it's so much of that hype cycle of just trying to get things done, just to get it done. But really our main advice that I've been giving as we go on these world tours and talk to our customers and people out, um, in the channel space is to first make sure your data is clean. That's like the hardest thing. Nobody's day is clean. And then do that centralization project of removing the blind spots and getting it where you have a centralized data lake to train it in, in all the right ways. So it knows all your information and it's unique uh, to all of your data. It's not going and fetching your competitors information or getting bad info that's going to feed the wrong uh, answers. So it's, it's really effective uh, in a couple of ways that I've seen it deployed really with reporting. It can help the more historical data you give it, it can give really good insights. Uh, we just started adopting it um, for our own purposes to help bring in all of our gong calls, bring in all the information in our CRM and bring it in from our JIRA tickets. So it has every data we have collected in all these different tools, centralize that and we can now go is this account at risk? And it goes, oh yeah, I know everything you've done with that. So it's really saving a lot of time of what was manual research. And so, so I think that's the optimization uh, is really where AI thrives, um, where people are still running into issues is when you're trying to have it be a full replacement for answering questions, you still get those answers you can't quite trust 100%. I think Agent Force was said to be 58% effective or I mean uh, accurate. Not great. Um, so you know, there's some improvements to be made there and so just cautiously stepping into that. Okay, well let's have a chatbot, but let's still have a human option there. Right. And just stepping into it that way and iterating and letting the technology catch up as we go but not trying to rush into it.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I mean, um, I'll echo your points around uh, the use of the technology, um, uh, to really help with a lot of the discovery side of things. Um, I think that that's uh, that's a mass, like if there's a single pane of glass for a partner manager to be able to understand the full opportunity or full interaction or full history or lifecycle of a particular partner. I think um, uh, AI does, does open that uh, that window, uh, that window to it and you know, take the Agent Force example, you. Yeah, um, I think uh, the accuracy when ChatGPT first hit was really, really terrible. Like everyone was like oh, ah, it's not accurate and all of that but over time it's learned and over time it's got better and there's uh, more context to it. Um, um, uh, uh, there's a gentleman by the name of Alex Smith. I don't know if you know him, he's from the Futurum, uh group I used to be at Canalis. And uh, he posted, he said I could share some of the um, uh some of the points that they, they're actually tracking the AI use cases that are specifically being utilized across uh, partner relationship PRM and it kind of uh, puts us into three key categories. And I'm just uh, having a look at some of the data that he said I could share and there's three categories. Partner management, partner sales and the partner finance side of things. And um, the, the, the one area where um, uh, partner management, what's tracking high there is partner portal agents. Okay. So um, uh, we've kind of gone the death of the portal and now we're going to build, now we're going to build agents to operate in the portal. So like what's your, like what's your view? Uh, do you have a point of view on that? Like uh, is, is, is the partner portals now cool because we're going to have partner agents or what's going on here?

Speaker B: Yeah, it's a little bit of uh, a you know, which road, which path are we taking here? Um, yeah, I still think as much as we're trying to de. Emphasize or even get rid of the portal, it's kind of gotten to be a bad word. We try not to say portal around here. Um, it's still going to be a place for certain things. You're still going to need to go to an authenticated area to get secure document sharing or get specific training, um, or go and chat with the agent. Right. So it's still going to serve that purpose but we are still serving both masters type of thing. We are still trying to deemphasize. Let's not have everything have to go to the portal. If you have a Slack channel or a teams channel with your partners, let them deal reg through there or register or do activities there and let's pull that data into the central engine of the PRM M database in the back end but not force all activity to the portal. It's kind of the mantra of let's go to where the partners are. That's the approach that we're going. So I think that works.

Speaker A: I think my point of view of where I think this can really make an impact is a lot of the time what partners need help with is um, at a point in you know, there's an activity that they're working with whether it be co sell, whether it be enablement and I think what age in terms of the agent concepts, uh, where I see it's got a massive opportunity is to bring, is to meet the partner in context. So if you kind of think like the portal as it is today, context is delivered by what you're actually looking for, not where you are. So you kind of you know I'm looking for this and then you, you kind of go through this ah, this deep dark search um, search ah, way to go and find, find things. I think where agents really have a, an opportunity to um, to provide some massive gains for the partner experience is uh, where these agents can meet partners in the context of what they're actually doing and when they meet them there they have context for what they've done, what their partner's actually done before and what they need help with right there. To me that I see that that is a massive, massive opportunity. Imagine you're co selling um, you get to the point where you are now looking for um particular some ah product information or some pricing information and this agent understands who you're co selling with, the competitors are in the deal and um, presents to you right then and there your pricing strategy or the strategy that it feels will win the deal.

Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah. The smarter we can treat or teach these agents to be it's going to be so much more effective. You know that that's kind of the long term vision that we have on our product side is okay, let's start today with answering the simple questions. Teach it all the documentation and training and webinars, whatever we have, answer the simple questions. But then let's start iterating on that. Pull in all the deal data so as it's starting to register a deal. Oh, looks like you're doing this. You want to pull in all the data you did before. Usually you're pricing around this price range or whatever it may be. It knows all that historical data and can provide really good context and suggestions there.

Speaker A: Yeah, I was actually fun story. I was at a conference this week in uh, in Queensland on the Gold coast in Australia and it's the uh, Edge conference. Vendors, distributors and channel partners coming together about two 300 people. And one uh of the conversations that I heard multiple times was how partners and uh, vendors were uh utilizing AI to uh, help understand the pricing strategy for their competitors. Yeah, uh the one use case is this the, the one channel partner was saying what they're doing, their sales process now is they actually if they know who they up against, let's say another msp uh in a particular deal what they'll do is they'll utilize artificial AI. Um, whether it's ChatGPT, I don't know what they're using. But to go and do research on the potential pricing strategy that this particular, uh, msp, um, is likely, uh, to put forward based on the experience and their skills, I thought that was quite a different way to think about a use case of how you're actually utilizing the amount of data that's actually out there already to help you do something.

Speaker B: So, yeah, maybe it's the cynic in me, but my thought was, okay, well, let's have our pricing strategy all make sure it's completely off the Internet, but feed false information in the chat. Our pricing strategy is this.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Now that's the thing, right? You still got to go. Well, how do I interpret this? Is this actually there? Um, uh, is, is this actually good? Is this bad data? Which is the thing I want to talk to about the data. You know, we've kind of gone, um, it's really exciting to hear how, uh, AI is kind of making all the opportunity that it's going to have in making that partner experience more fast, effective and more responsive. But you mentioned earlier, um, and I pick up this point around the data. It actually all hinges on the use of data, um, or the data that's actually there. And we talk about clean data, we talk about bad data, and we talk about data that's been fed in the example that you've just, that you just mentioned. Now, so before you can, before you can deploy anything smart, um, how do you ensure that your foundation, uh, from a PRM point of view, uh, how do you ensure that your foundation isn't a mess? Like, what are the biggest gaps or pitfalls that you actually see, um, holding companies back from actually maturing their tech stack?

Speaker B: Well, usually, uh, it's just a lack of reporting and understanding where you're at. Uh, you know, the most common story is, well, we started with spreadsheets and you're kind of doing what you can with the tools that are available. And, and the biggest mistake is just trying to do what you think is right without ever getting the feedback either from the partners themselves or what they're telling you through their data and behaviors. So, you know, if you're looking, if you're not looking to see, wow, our deal registrations are down. I wonder why that could be. And you're not able to tell if you don't have the right amount of information collected or, you know, sometimes the simplest answer is just to ask the partners directly. Hey, we notice you aren't working with us as much. What can we do better uh, in identifying what those gaps are necessarily? Um, unfortunately like you mentioned or at least alluded to before, in partnerships there's no silver bullet. Like every company is going to have unique issues, uh, ways that they need to interact with their partners depending on the products they sell, how uh, they want to go to market, the verticals they're in. So yeah, it's a wide variety. So it's kind of a vague answer but it's mostly just have open lines of communication and make sure that you are aligned with your partners, uh, and see where the gaps are with your

Speaker A: KPIs and what are some of the common data, um, uh, the data issues that you see in uh, PRMs that are really holding, holding um, people back, uh, to get the most out of it.

Speaker B: Yeah, you know it's, it's kind of the, the standard to say well engagement is logins to the portal. Is it though, like is that really the be all tell all that that's your engaged partner is if they have logged into the portal or not. You know, maybe they already know your solution really well and they don't need to take any more training and they'll come back when they have a deal. It doesn't mean that they're not going to be a good partner engaged, you know, or you can have the false negatives of somebody logging in every day and just going, yeah, I don't need this or whatever it may be. So having more of a holistic view of okay, what are the common characteristics of our top partners? Are they the ones that have completed all of our training? Are they the ones that have interacted with certain documents that we've put up there, uh, ones that are high performing and right on the cusp of being from gold to platinum, but haven't quite got there, like is there something we can do to push? So there's a lot of areas where you can dive into. As long as you're tracking all this, you can find areas where it makes more sense to invest and areas where, okay, these guys, no matter how much effort, they're not going to be as profitable for us. So we'll just leave them on automation if they stay. Great.

Speaker A: So once you, once the stack is clean, so once your tech stack is clean, uh, and aligned, uh, from a data perspective, um, uh, what's the. There's this. Well I suppose the other challenge that comes up is now, okay, we've got the best built We've got the Mercedes now we've got to get people to actually drive it. So how do we now get partners engaged? Right, so how do you use this well aligned tech stack? That's uh, good data, good clean data. Um, that is good processes. And now we want to use this to engage uh, engage partners. Not just track what they've completed as you just mentioned, not just track the uh, activities that they've uh, that they've gone through. So let's talk about how companies are evolving their partner comms to be more um, engaging but also also to be more personalized to those particular partners so they are relevant.

Speaker B: Yeah. You already gave the answer. I was going to. Right. There is you need to have good targeted communication. Right. So there's an old baseball movie in the US of if you build it they will come was kind of the Kevin Costner.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: You know it. All right, all right. We're on the same page. So yeah, uh, that is not true in PRM world like you could build the most beautiful partner program and PRM and it won't guarantee that anybody's going to come and enjoy it until you give the right amount of communication. You got to market it and let them know what do they stand to gain by taking the time and effort to go in and engage with this. So um, you know, do that with your targeted communications. Make a big noise about it. Maybe it's offering some incentive, whatever it is to get them hooked onto that new process. Because change management is always the biggest obstacle to overcome no matter what you're doing. So just getting that new motion and getting them to get the dopamine hit or whatever it is, you know, throw in the gamification, throw in the incentive in some way so that uh, they are familiar with it and they are wanting to come back.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean I always, I always liken um uh partner comms um very much to uh, or partner engagement very much to unlocking GTM relevance. And I can't tell you how many times we uh, at partner elevate we work across vendors and distributors and they building GTM programs. Um and I can't tell you how many times times um there's the email that's sent with uh the partner comms which is training that you can engage in or go to market uh opportunities and there are 15 line 15 bullet points with links to uh, things that partners can just go and um, uh engage with. But the reality is like it's not, it's not never relevant, it's not all that Relevant to what they're trying to do right then and there or the thing that you've actually been telling them three weeks ago, which was stop doing this, this is where we want you to focus. And all of a sudden they've got a marketing comms, uh, they've got a marketing email which says hey, here's a whole bunch of enablement that you can go to. So the segmentation of the communication is like, it's just not there. And it actually slows down. To me it slows down all the other efforts that is happening across that uh, those, that partner program. Um, uh, when uh, partners are getting bombarded with these long laundry list of things that they can go and do. And um, it's super frustrating for a partner to go, I have to read 15 lines to go and determine what exactly you want me to do or what opportunity is. Just make it relevant for me where I am, uh, where I am right now. And there's some. I want to talk about this where I am right now because um, where uh, get your point of view from a PRM point of view is do organizations actually know where a partner is in their life cycle journey?

Speaker B: They certainly should. But yeah, that's not always the case. Like you said in that communication, if it's just a generic email and you have information that uh, a gold partner that's been with you for five years is going to want to hear, your new partner you just onboarded, that's a silver level or no level, they're going to feel overwhelmed and the attention will just go off. You'll lose them right away. Make sure that every piece of communication that go out, do not put any filler information. Have it all very targeted, specific and easy to read. If you're given a wall of text, our attention spans just can't handle that. We all have our ADD or whatever and it just doesn't last. So um, super, you know, and of course make it very relevant and important like don't give them the uh, old Instagram, hey, um, I'm now at lunch, you know, whatever, nobody cares.

Speaker A: So uh, make, make it relevant, make it important. How much of the tech stack is actually part of driving that GTM alignment and engagement for partners? How much of the tech stack needs to be there for you to be able to do this effectively?

Speaker B: Well I think you can do a lot of these things and that's why people fall into the manual efforts. You can do this a lot just through email and through the tools you have without a prm. But as soon as you're trying to do that for 10, 20, 30 partners, you're going to either drive yourself nuts or, you know, not have a life, or, you know, you're just going to. Something's going to drop off. So you need to be able to have that level of automation in there. So that's the trick is leverage the platform to scale and automate what you've been doing on that personal, individual level. Like, you wouldn't dare send this generic email to one specific partner that has information for others. So don't do that. When you've scaled either, make sure that you're still having that targeted communication. So that's where you have to leverage the tools. The tools are capable, but not everybody leverages them in the right way. So it really is on your execution and leveraging the tools that are available. Just like with AI, just like with any technology, make sure that you have the right approach and execution because that's all the difference in the world. Um, and a lot of people just blame the tool for the failure when they've just executed it incorrectly.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I think that's a great lens, Trev. I, uh, think it's, uh, this lens of engagement through relevance that is super, super, super important. And you've got to do the time to make sure that that engagement is actually, uh, relevant. But I suppose at the same time, partner expectations keep shifting as well. Right. And, um, more portals, more tools, and more noise. And so, uh, I kind of feel like we have this, uh, we're trying to improve the engagement, but we're also trying to do it with a whole bunch of other things that does obviously create, um, a lot of noise. So let's let, so let's kind of zoom out for a second here. Ah, Trevor. And I'd love to understand from you, what do you see is coming next in this evolution of the partner, uh, of partner tech?

Speaker B: Yeah, well, there's a couple of things. I think there's still a lot of momentum still to be had with the marketplaces, the hyperscaler marketplaces. A lot of companies are seeing the benefits of transacting, uh, through there because they get, give great bonuses and feedback and inspiration to do that. It's kind of like I don't ever spend cash anymore because my credit card benefits are so great. Why would I just spend cash when I can get 3% back or whatever it may be? These marketplaces are taking that same approach, so they're really motivating companies. You should transact through us because you'll get all These benefits back. Um, so the big piece that needs to happen on the partnerships world is right now, they're pretty cut out. Not a whole lot of partners that are transactable on these marketplaces that their vendors are. So if you're trying to add your services as a partner onto this deal, and the partner and the end user just goes, oh, I'll just transact through the marketplace, you are cut off. So trying to find a way where you can include and not exclude the partners in that whole world, let them tap into all the benefits available there, I think that's one, one big evolution we'll have here in the near term. Um, another is, you know, I still think there's a lot of work to be done from the technology standpoint, like you say, to make it a better partner experience. Whether you try to do that single pane of glass, okay. Instead of 10 different, uh, vendor portals, I log into, I just log into a single one and it has. Just click a box into which of the 10 I'm working with and you can get all your information in least one. So that's kind of another tweak that I know a lot of, uh, technologies are looking to try to do, but there's plenty of challenges along with that. But that's the utopia that we're trying to go for. Because, I mean, yeah, if we're looking at partner first, nobody wants to remember 10 different logins. It's just a headache. Right. And to go into every one of those different things, it's, it's the friction that we would really like to remove. Um, and, and then, um, so how, how we are able to incorporate that and then have AI so you don't have to log into the specific portal. Maybe the AI is embedded into their own CRM or wherever they're living today. You know, just like I say, whatever tools they're using, let's minimize the change management. Let's go to what they're doing today and just bolt on what we need so that we can give them the information and the tools they need there.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, it's very clear that this, this partner's tech stack is, um. Yeah, it's just, it's not just evolving. It's actually being redefined.

Speaker B: Oh, yeah.

Speaker A: You know, and, um, so for the leaders that are listening today, uh, what would your, um. Yeah, let's try and bring it back to what they can do right now. Yeah, I can listen after they've listened to, uh, this, uh, this podcast. What can they go do right now? What's one piece of advice that you would give them, uh, a leader who wants to start modernizing their tech stack. What's uh, one piece of advice you can help them to make that tech stack truly partner first.

Speaker B: Yeah, well, and it's always about the bottom line with executives. Right. So I was going to say make sure that you can assess the ROI of the tools you have today in place and what adjustments you can make. But if you're really trying to make it partner first because the reality is the tech stack is still pretty vendor centric and you're forcing your partners into different motions and things like that. Um, but yeah, the partner first is still try to strike that balance between automation and breaking down those walls of friction, making it as easy as possible with the tools you have available, uh, to work with you. Right. Don't, don't put them into. A lot of people still have. Well yeah, I log into the portal, but if you need training, you need to go to this other thing. If you need this, go to different. I mean let's not add more logins, let's not make it harder so at least have a one place so they can get all that information. Um, but yeah, just make sure that you're doing clear communication and staying in touch with the partners. And if you do have a portal, uh, and they log in is the same welcome message from a year ago. You're probably not doing enough updates. You know, keep, keep things fresh. Just always make those updates. Give. Think, think partner first. Like what is our experience or have have your partner sit down. Can I look over your shoulder and let me see what it looks like like when you log into our stuff. Okay. Yeah, you know, you can see things through their eyes a little bit better. Um, but yeah, just leverage those relationships and uh, and that trust and have them give honest feedback.

Speaker A: Yeah. So I mean we've, we've spoken about a, a couple of things. You know, we've spoken about flexibility, um, we've spoken about the use of technology, um, in a partnerstack, how to modernize a partner stack, the role of data, the role of communication, the role of engagement with partners. So there's a lot happening, there's a lot that we need to think about. And I love the uh, love the fact that you wrap that up, which often isn't the first uh, thing we think about is like what's the roi? What's the ROI that you need to get from this modernization that you uh, that's going to make this uh, one business case that you can Actually take to your, to your board or to your investment committee, depending, or just if you're a smaller, uh, smaller vendor, just to. Just to management to go and get them to buy. Get them to buy. Uh, into it. So we now kind of have the fun part of the show, which is like we've educated, we've helped.

Speaker B: Wait, wasn't fun already?

Speaker A: Uh, this is the true fun part of the show, which is, uh, we do the partnerships fast five. Okay, so partnerships fast five. Uh, I'm just going to say start, uh, a couple of sentences or five sentences. And all I want you to do is to finish it off with one word, one word that comes to mind. Okay. Um, there's no right or, right or wrong answer. Most people do pass this. Uh, okay, good. Past this. But it's not a test anyway. Okay, so you're ready to have a bit of fun, Trevor?

Speaker B: Ready.

Speaker A: Okay, cool. Uh, first one. Uh, partnerships thrive on shared purpose.

Speaker B: I'm cheating. That's not one word. There we go.

Speaker A: Uh, partnerships embody, I'd say innovation. Oh, I love this. That.

Speaker B: Because you're bringing together two different worlds, really. And you're, you're trying to find ways to benefit the customer in the end too.

Speaker A: I love it. Uh, through partnerships you can maximize, uh, revenue.

Speaker B: We'll have to hyphenate again.

Speaker A: Okay, you're not, you. You're not doing that well. Yeah, come on. Word. I'm too wordy. Typical marketing. Right? Marketing. M. Yeah, you gotta. I'll throw it in the chat.

Speaker B: GPT for some synonyms.

Speaker A: Um, partnerships spark, um, innovation.

Speaker B: I already said that one, didn't I?

Speaker A: Yeah, it's cool. That's cool comes to mind. Don't worry. No right or wrong answer. And then lastly, partnerships succeed through outcomes.

Speaker B: Because I can't help myself. Outcomes. Right. You have to have, you have to have it be a win, win such situation. That's really how you succeed.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Trevor, it has been such a good conversation, uh, with you and I certainly appreciate you, uh, coming on, um, coming onto the show and sharing, uh, what is fundamentally, uh, a very big part of how we drive success. For any partner program, we need people, but then we also need the tech that connects everything, that connects the data that connects the processes, that connects all the stuff. And that actually makes our partner program more, uh, successful at the end of the day. So I really appreciate you and, um, I love the work that mpartner is doing, uh, in the space. So for our audience, um, who are, uh, and leaders who are looking to have a word connect with you. Where's the best place for them to, uh, find you and the in. Partner. Team. Team?

Speaker B: Oh, uh, I live on LinkedIn, but, uh, you can find us on our, our site, impartner.com. you can easily click any of the 100 buttons we have out there, too. Request a demo if you want to send. Yeah, exactly. Or, you know, if you just want to chat, then, yeah, hook up with me on LinkedIn and we'll. We'll chat.

Speaker A: Excellent. Uh, Trevor, thank you so much. Really appreciate your time. And, uh, all the best.

Speaker B: Best. Thank you so much, dez, that was great.

Speaker A: Thank you for listening to Investable Partnerships. Subscribe wherever you listen, and visit investablepartnerships.com for the transcripts of today's show.