Your Phone Is Making You Lonely (The Ripple Effect Podcast ft. Julie Sands)

Speaker A: Hey guys. Welcome back to another episode of the Ripple Effect podcast. I am your host, Steve Harper, and today I am excited to invite back into the Ripple miss Julie Saenz.

Speaker B: It's impacting all of us, not just our children, my family, my friends, my mother, my mother in law. I've seen their behaviors change and I don't, I don't like it. And it's not just about personal taste. This is not how we were intended to live and not like a holding on to the past. It's not netting good results. People are dying. People are committing suicide. The depression rates are insane. They're climbing at a crazy rate and we don't have laws around it yet. And I hate politics. Half my books are about that. That's one of the problems I'm trying to solve in the back of my mind. And I hate it. But it's the only way to fix it.

Speaker A: Julie and I have known each other for a number of years. She's been on the podcast before for but she's recently gone through a career transition. She is also running two podcasts. She's a voracious reader. She is committed to understanding what it takes to give the world your genius and bring the best parts of yourself forward. And I'm super excited she agreed to come back. She is one of these people that you will without question just instantly fall in love with because she's positive. She's so committed to making a difference and really, really, really helping people see the best value that they bring to the table as well. I'm so grateful to call her a friend. I'm so grateful to learn from her. She is a mentor, she is a guide. We exchange texts and emails all the time. Great ideas, great books, great things to read. I just can't begin to tell you how much I really, really consider myself so blessed to have someone like this in my personal and professional network. Julie Sands is just a lightning rod for awesomeness. And I promise you, Julie going to benefit so much from learning about what she's up to now and where she's going and what she's doing to make her own mark in the world. I'm so grateful she agreed to be a part of this particular episode. With no further ado, let's dive into a conversation with Ms. Julie Sands. I have had. Excuse me. So many people tell me how many times they have gone back to your original episode and then because of that they went back to our Women in Construction recordings. And you and I have done a couple of things. People love you and so I'm so grateful you came back to the show. Thank you.

Speaker B: That's so nice. Well, I don't know what to say to that. Uh, thank. Thank you. That's a good one.

Speaker A: That works.

Speaker B: Glad to be of service. Right?

Speaker A: Yeah. Uh, you are that with that. You're that in a bag of chips, let me tell you.

Speaker B: I mean, I haven't heard that in a while, Steve. I like it.

Speaker A: I just aged it myself a little bit, but that's okay.

Speaker B: So you.

Speaker A: I don't know the part of the reason I wanted to have you on. I want to talk about, you know, the books that you and I have been talking about. I want to talk about your two podcasts. I want to talk about you making this shift in career because it was kind of, you know, one I didn't see coming. It was kind of unexpected, and where you found the, uh, confidence and the courage to do that, and then how committed you are to helping other. Not just women. But, I mean, I know you have a large focus there of helping them bring the best of their talents and genius to the table. But how you've managed to do that for so many people like myself, because I feel like every time you and I talk, every time we engage, A, I learned something. B, I'm super excited and, uh, you know, motivated to go do something. Like, I went and read that book Halftime, after you told me to read it, and, uh, what an amazing book it was, and really timely for some of the challenges I was going through at the time. And then really, at the end of the day, just what a genuine giving spirit you. You have for anybody who crosses your path. And, I mean, when I think of a rippler, you're definitely in the hall of fame of Ripplers. There is no doubt in my mind, because you leave everybody that comes in in contact with you better for it. So let me start there. How in the world is it that you bring such a spark to the world? I know you've done it forever, but how is it that you can do it and maintain it at such a high level? I really want to know what your secret is.

Speaker B: I. I didn't mean to laugh. Like, I wasn't laughing at. I'm just, like. I, uh, was trying to take notes without looking. Like, I was taking notes about the item, the bullet points that we were going to cover. And then. And then I think I was just humbled by it. And I thought, well, I can't write that down. That can't. That feels weird. I'm just so Happy to hear that. You read Halftime, and it made a difference. And, like, I just think it's so important. Like, I know I'm just starting in the middle, so I'm like a squirrel. I'll just go here and there. And, like, you've got to control me. It's a. The. The ADHD or. I don't even know if I should call it that, but I'm pretty sure that's what it is. It needs to be controlled. Um, every now and then. The part of that is creativity, right? Like, and part of that is just giving into, like, uh, I'm a spiritual person, where the Holy Spirit is leading me. Right. I mean, I just can't hide that. And I think that. I think that is part of the answer to your last question. I mean, we'll eventually come around to that somehow. But I think if there's any magic that's coming out of my life, if there's any blessing that's coming out of my life, that that's the genesis. That's where it's coming from. Like, I. And I don't want to exclude any part of the population that would be watching or listening to this by saying, oh, it's the Holy Spirit. So anybody else that doesn't, you know, have my same, uh, spirit, you know, spiritual beliefs and faith beliefs, um, now. Now, can't have that. Like, not. Uh. I'm not saying that, um. Because I'm not saying that.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: So I'm saying something else. I'm not sure what it is. I'm not sure I have the words around it, but, um, lights you up.

Speaker A: And that's. That's. That's what brings you front. Yeah. That's what's driving you inside. And I think that I have mad respect for that. And you are a woman of faith that I really, really admire for that, because you are not only open to talk about it, but you're also very open to take, uh, that higher power and understand the gift that you've been given and how to bring that into the world and make people better because they get an opportunity to be with you, whether they're working with you or working for you or just meet you at a random coffee, uh, shop while you're reading your book or doing your book club with your friend. You know, those are the things that I think are just so impressive because, you know, excuse me. As I tell our audience, there are just people that cross your path in life that are there for a very specific reason. And you and I met through a Business function and you know, sort of a business, uh, direction. But we quickly became fast friends. Not because, you know, not necessarily because that was like a strategy of some sort. It was just pushed upon us. Right? Like you two need to know one another. You two need to find a way to like, hang out, have these great deep, you know, in depth conversations and then see where they go and what happens from it. And the podcasts and the recordings previously, you know, have always been sort of a good manifestation of that. But I was telling our audience, you know, or in the intro, you know, you and I have been doing this all along. Whether it's like just getting on and next thing you know, it's like an hour is past, like it was five minutes. And we just have a similar zest, uh, for life and a motivation to inspire and help other people be the best that they can be. So I guess, you know, coming back to that and then I'm going to come back to that book is how is it that you do all the awesome things that you do? I mean, you have this thirst for knowledge, you're constantly bettering yourself. You go down these rabbit holes, trails to learn stuff that just you. Most people would just pass by and you're like, nope, nope, nope. I'm going to stop, I'm going to go learn what that means. I'm going to understand where it started, how it ended, all those things. What. Where does that come from?

Speaker B: The. Well, you just saying that, uh, I about went off on like three different tangents from there, but definitely the nope, nope, nope comes from my mother. The nope, nope, nope, nope. Let's figure this out. And then the creativity piece comes from my father. So we. The apple does not fall far from the tree. My dad was an extremely creative person, like creative mind. Oh my goodness. And I don't think I would have said use those words while he was like, while he was living or even like. I think it's just the past couple of years that I really embraced that. Like, goodness, he was so creative like that. This just um, this ability to take ideas and like transference of ideas and like, uh, I'll, I'll figure out another way to say it. And then my mom is the we're gonna figure this out, mom. Um, we're gonna. If there's a problem, we will figure out how to solve it. So I think there's kind of a, um, a marriage of that insight inside of who I am and at this point in my life, uh, I'm halfway through my life, at least more Than we talked about this, uh, most. The average age of the American, average American is 77 years. I'm past halfway. And if I'm average in most people, next to, you know, the next statement is, well, I'm not average. Everyone thinks they're not average. If, I mean, if everyone's above average, who's below, like, yeah. Anyway, I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings, but this is the reality that we're faced with. So the, um, like my, I keep using Genesis story, but I, I, the part that I know for sure that I can like take a hold of and say, I can tell you for sure that a little bit of this, like where a little bit of this came from or um, like why I am in like extremely intentional about not wasting time. Extremely intentional about trying to understand like what life is about, uh, what my goals are so that we have no regrets in the end and so that the people that I love around me also are aware and don't have regrets. Like, like how great would it be for me to get to the end of my life and go, I had a great one. Oh, sorry I didn't tell you. Oh no, this is what I learned. Like we're supposed to bring people along.

Speaker A: Um, yes.

Speaker B: What I, what I learned is I learned from um, like my first tragedy. My, my father passed away in 2020. And for me, I'm not saying this is what will happen for every single person that loses a parent or someone close to them. But, but what happened for me is it was a, like a significant wake up call. And you, and you hear this. It's very common for this to happen. I'm not unique. I'm not like the first person that was like, oh my gosh, I only, I don't know how much life I have left. And not just because he passed away. Like, uh, there's, there's a reason for all this. Like what am I here for? Am I just going to wake up and go to work and come home and, and of course parent and lead my kids well and you know, be a great wife, all that. Am I just going to do that? Which would be, would be fine. Um, am I going to scroll my life away in my free time? No, I'm not. Hope not. Tell me if I am right. Like, so that woke me up. The wake up call, like when my dad passed away and the months past that, um, is just like for me it was a time of significant self reflection and like searching and seeking. Like, that's another word that my older Brother attributes to my personality. Like, um, which is I consider a huge compliment.

Speaker A: Like I. Oh, absolutely.

Speaker B: Seek. You're a seeker. A truth seeker is what he said. Julie, you're a truth seeker. And I, yeah, that resonates with me. I want to like, not just find like the truth and kind of like a justice kind of, you know, justice centered kind of way. But I like, who doesn't want to know how things work? Like I want to know how they work. I want to know so that when they feel broken, I can at least attempt to fix them. Like I think that's my dad's, um, you know, some of his qualities coming out. He was raised on a farm and when things were broken, they fixed them. Right.

Speaker A: And so you didn't have a choice. I mean, you have to figure it out. Right?

Speaker B: Have to. And his was more mechanical in like tangible in um. For me, I think, um, that that part of my personality has translated into a little more of like what I'm naturally good at. Like what I naturally think is fascinating. And that's human beings personalities, um, the power of influence. And not like the influencer kind of way. Sorry, I don't want to cringe. But not like that, not like that. But like um, we're impacting and rubbing up against and bumping up against people all the time and we have the ability to make their lives better or worse or anywhere in between. And I've studied a lot about that. I think, I think it's fascinating. I was, I went to. Gosh, I talk a lot.

Speaker A: Sorry.

Speaker B: But I'm like, I hear. I just, I talk a lot. Sorry. Um, but I went back to school back in 2014, so. So over a decade ago and started learning a little bit more. I went back to MBA school and I kind of wound my way through by a series of events that now I see as um, like meant to be. And I found my way to organizational behavior, which has a strong psychology component in it. And so having studied architecture and construction and physics and been a math and science person my whole life and a family that valued those things, that's what I studied. But if I'd really known myself better earlier, younger, I would have aimed more towards um. I think I would have aimed more towards the like the softer skills and the psychology and now the neuroscience of, of in biology and how that all works together because at the end of the day, we're humans again, bumping up against one another in the power that each of us has to make an influence on one another's lives. Like, that to me, is. Is the answer. Like, that's the answer to so many of our problems. Like, there. Anyway. I have a lot of problems in my mind. Like, challenges. I'm an optimist. I don't really like the word problem challenges that I know about that I'm, like, constantly working, like, back here, I'm constantly working the. Like, why are we so divided as a. As a culture? That doesn't make sense. We are, you know, the Maya Angelou. We are more alike than we are unlike. So why are we so divided? And, like, that's a constant. It's just always playing. And. And I'm looking for the pieces of the puzzle. And, um, in this. I'm a people. I know you've heard this a million times. I'm a people person. Like, I am energized by interacting with people. I always have been. And that's never going to change. People. My relationships bring me the greatest delight in my whole life. And so, um, that I have noticed, Steve, and I know you have, too. Like, if we all think about it just, like, a little bit.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Our relationships, they've all changed since 2010,

Speaker A: you know, very much. Yeah.

Speaker B: The markedly, like, different milestones of what's changed. And as an extremely social person, as someone that gets so much joy from this, I'm not totally happy with how my relationships have changed. I'm not totally happy that when people. I'm, um, not calling them out by name. Um, but people podcast.

Speaker A: We'll do that later.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, no, no, because it's everyone. People that we know and love that are close to us like that now come into our home for a special event, holiday, whatever. Special event that they're looking at their phones as much as they're looking at me.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: Um, I mean, there's something inside me that's kind of mother bear, like. No, yeah, that's not. This is not. Not just me, selfishly. But they're looking. We are all looking at our phones more than we're looking at one another. And that's not where we're going to find happiness. So, um, anyway, and not just like, I'm not preaching that. I've read about four books on it, if not more. And that's. That's the Harvard Grant study. Like, my husband makes fun of me. He's like, the Harvard Grant study. How long will it take you to mention that? Yeah, but, well, it's. It's genius. It's that 80 years plus, probably 90 years plus a, uh, long Running study about happiness. And they just follow these, these men first and then their fan, then when they passed away, their children and they like, they tested them, they poked and they prodded and they asked all the questions and said like, who's the, who is happy and what are the indicators of what makes people happy? Because that's the only thing that we're all, we all think we're looking for anyway is happiness. And what they found was, um, the, the happiest people had one thing in common. It wasn't like their education level or the jobs or you know, things that happen or their health, anything like that. It was having good quality relationships with close people. And that's it.

Speaker A: Yeah, there's curiosity to other people want to be a part of their lives, not just the, uh, you know, what I call window dressing topics. It's like, you know, really in depth conversations and meaningful dialogue with people who you recognize you can learn something from every single time you have a conversation conversation. They better you in some capacity. And it's not, doesn't have to be a, uh, kind of relationship that, you know, is constantly challenging you or saying you're not good enough. And here's how I could, you know, let me give you the example. How to be better. It's people that really light you up. I think you, you embrace that in your, in your ever, ever being, in your fiber, in what you bring to every conversation with people. Because you, when people see it, they recognize it for the talent and the skill that it is and they kind of want that. Right? And you are the living embodiment of that study because you are the kind of congruent, authentic, true to life kind of person that people need to have in their lives. So those that are around you every day, I mean, that's like, oh man, they're the luckiest people ever. But those of, those of us that have been lucky to meet you through work or to have, you know, the opportunity to become a friend and to do that, they're really in for a treat. Because it's not just wow, I learned something from Julie every time I talk to her. But no, Julie really makes me think and Julie makes me want to be a better person.

Speaker B: Wow, that's all so nice. I could, I'm glad you're recording it because words of affirmation is my love language. So I could live like a month on um, these words for sure.

Speaker A: Well, it's, it's 100 true though. And, and like you're saying it relates to that study. So few of us are actually seeking out and looking for those authentic relationships. Well, we. We may have friends that we may see every once in a while. We may have those people that are in our lives, that our orbits are spitting and colliding. But are we colliding for the betterment of that opportunity in that experience, or are we just doing it because we're going through the motion? And I think the thing that you really made me think of, and I. I view myself as a people scientist. I've been an observer of people for as long as I know because I always felt like I did not belong or not fit in, uh, with the rest of the world. And I so desperately wanted to. And the people that I studied, like yourself, that have really, really figured out the secret to happiness and the true life that you want to lead is through the measurement of the people that you come in contact with and the impact you make together. Not just one. It's just got to be a Both. It's got to be a. It's got to be a mutual dance, and you've got to find those dance partners out there that kind of want to do it. And I think that's the sad thing. Today you have generations that have just gotten away from it, and then, like you said, you have core technology that is designed to keep us away from it and keep us addicted and our attention focused on everything else, and yet leaves us so much more empty for it that even having authentic, true conversations where people can be really honest and say, hey, you know, I am so freaking grateful that I met you and what you bring to my life is important, and I want you to keep bringing it right? Keep coming at me, keep educating me, keep teaching me, Keep being that spark. Because I need more of that. Because the vast majority of other people that are out there are too busy looking at their phone to actually pay attention.

Speaker B: Yeah. Amen. All of it. I mean, you. You. I've read. So, um, almost no ideas that I have. Is this good grammar.

Speaker A: I don't know.

Speaker B: Almost none of the ideas that I have are mine. Like, I've read it in some book, and I. And I'm kind of unapologetic about it. My husband's like, um, you don't have to quote every time. It's a book, but it all. It almost always is. But you're talking about, um, Bob Goff's book. Undistracted, pivotal. For me, like, such a good book, such a great read. It is a great book. Reminder of, oh, my gosh, we're so Distracted and the people that we need are right in front of us. Um, and then David Brooks's book, um, which is how to know a Person.

Speaker A: That's a good one.

Speaker B: Goodness. If you haven't. Right, like if anyone hasn't read it, read it now. Like that's the place to start in the digital age is um, how to know another human being and the joy that it's going to bring you. Like I think, I think that I, Yes, I definitely, over the last, I don't know how many years, at least five, maybe more than that, I have um, embraced like this knowledge that I've gained from reading these wonderful authors works. So I read Arthur Brooks, you know, about uh, how to find happiness and from strength to strength. And if you haven't read that, read it or, or watch the podcast or the YouTube. They all have YouTubes and podcasts. Right. So if you don't have time. But like I could give, we could sit and talk for an hour on each of these books and the impacts that, like how it's impacted my thinking and my perspective and that's the power of a, of a great book and, and I don't know, that's just the uh, power of a great communicator's ideas. But there, there's no but it's, I'm also seeing this in my life play out. So you read these, this book and go, oh yeah, I've seen that. Great way to put it. That's a great way to put it. You know, or there's data to back it up. Or um, like, anyway, so, so all that to say, like, I could just pick each of these books up my stack of books and like this is what shaped me and I do not want to fall into the trap, although I have and we do and I'm trying to pull myself out of it every single day. Pull, uh, fall into the trap of digital capitalism. Having my face in a screen more than I have interactions with human beings. We're always, we need each other. Like as a social person, like I've always been as social as I am now. Like this is me in kindergarten. You're looking at her. She just started reading a little more. You know, like as a social person, I know we need each other. And part of my not mission, my, my purpose, part of like what I think my purpose on this earth is is to like spread goodness and help people find one. Like find one another and see one another and not get trapped in these like trivialities. Is it like so many trivialities that Pull us uh, away from each other. So I'm just one of the many voices of people saying this. No one disagrees with any of this. This is not new information. Like everyone wants out. Like they don't want to be in the matrix, but we find ourselves there night after night. Scrolling. I was just picking. I picked my son up from swim practice yesterday morning. Yesterday morning I picked him up and I uh, I like to walk in, watch, you know, for a little while sometimes. I just love watching him swim. He's great. Great and beautiful stroke. Anyway, so I walked in. There was also a master's group swimming, like in the next several lanes. So fun. These people master, uh, swimmers, they're fast. I mean, then they're older than me. Anyway, one of the master swimmers had just gotten out of the pool and the only person that I heard talk, it was like 6am I mean they swam for 5 to 6. So I picked him up and she said, she said, I. I'm just so tired. To her friend, she said, I'm just so tired. I've got to stop scrolling. I just have to put my phone away. I just think like I gotta just put it down and roll over. I keep doing this. And I thought that's the only conversation that I've heard today yet. And that's the first thing that she said. And it just reminded me. And the man that she said it to, her friend just kind of shook his head like, yeah. And this woman, if I were to estimate, I'd say she was late 60s. It's impacting all of us, not just our children. My, my family, my friends, my parent, my mother, my mother in law. I've seen their behaviors change at Easter. I've seen their behaviors change like, and I don't, I don't like it. And it's not just about personal taste. I think this is not how we were intended to live. And not like a holding on to the past. Like this is not. That's not how it used to be. Is not netting good results. People are dying. People are committing suicide. Like they're getting, uh, the depression rates are insane. They're climbing at a crazy rate. And we don't have laws around it yet. And I hate politics. Half of my books back here are about like bridging the gap of politics in old division. Half my books are about that. That's one of the problems I'm trying to solve in the back of my mind. And I hate it. But it's the only way to fix it.

Speaker A: Hey, Ripplers. Before we Jump back in. I want to take a quick moment to share two ways you can go even deeper with us. First, if you're enjoying this podcast, you'll love our paid subscription offers on both Substack and Patreon. That is where you'll get exclusive content, behind the scenes insights and extra resources about connections and relationships that you won't read anywhere else. Plus a few little other ditties. It's a great way to support the show and stay connected between episodes. And let's be honest, if you're craving something even more immersive, and who isn't, check out our Connect and Grow Ripple coaching program. Man, this is a full year of coaching, content and community designed to help you become a more engaged connector and leader in both life and business. I love this program. I think you will too. You'll join a vibrant community of like minded ripplers to gain access to master classes led by dynamic experts, including me. Attend live workshops, group coaching sessions, and get the accountability and actionable strategies you need to build more meaningful relationships to create an even bigger ripple effect out there in the world. Which who doesn't want that? You can find the links in the show notes to sign up today. Hope to see you over there. Ripple on. Well, you know what's fascinating about it? The people that are as addicted to the scroll and find that they can't put the phone down because they're they just one more kind of like that, you know, person you're talking about, right? I'm, um, just gonna watch one more video, I'm gonna watch one more content creator and before you know it, you know, it's the, you know, doom scrolling, right? And what I find is fascinating is people actually that realize that they fall into that habit, they are already primed to do what we're talking about because the reason that you go from one video to the other or that you go from one platform to the other is because there's an inherent curiosity of wanting to plug in and wanting to see what's happening in the world. So the curiosity bug is there. The reality is it's like when you have a device like this, right? It just makes it so darn simple to just bring it to us and serve it up like a pop tart from the toaster. It's just there. But the reality is, if you could transition that same level of curiosity, that same commitment into the conversations that you have today, into the people that are going to cross your path, you know, throughout the day, the person that's sitting next to you at the coffee shop, the person that's behind you in line at the, at the grocery store, the person that you see at the conference, um, that you go to. And you just put the same level of time and attention into that, even if it is a 30 second conversation or it turns out to be a 30, 30 minute conversation. The power and what it does to your brain chemistry is just as powerful. And in fact, it's more powerful because you're not taking like little samples off the appetizer tray. You're actually getting a pretty sustainable meal. And the value of that is so critical. So what's amazing is changing that habit is as simple as going, you know, I am actually a pretty curious person. I am curious about what's going on in people's lives. That's why I go from video to video to see like, oh, where are they traveling, what are they doing, what's the latest hustle strategy or whatever the BS is that they're putting out today. And the value of that is to recognize if you are falling victim to that. It isn't that you don't or, uh, aren't capable of connecting with other people. They're just making you go down a path that is sort of like Pavlov's dog, right? You know, the moment you wake up, I'm going to reach for my phone that before I go to bed, I'm going to Track, you know, 10 videos. Next thing you know, it's 100 and it's two hours later. And all of these things are geared towards the betterment of their platforms and to keep you hooked and addicted. But you've already showed that you got the curiosity bug. And if you shifted that addiction to maybe. I'm going to go talk to three strangers today, scary as it might be, I'm going to find that if I actually stimulate that curiosity bug, the same one I used this morning when I was on Twitter or I was on Instagram or whatever, it's there. And if you actually just perfect that muscle and shift that attention and focus to the real world, put the phone or the electronic devices away for a second. The whole world is out here waiting for you. The whole world is wanting.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. The whole world is out here waiting for all of us. That you. I think that's the title of something. A book. I don't know.

Speaker A: Yes, we should write it together. But speaking of which, when's your book coming out?

Speaker B: Uh, yeah, I have the, um, draft, the manuscript and then. Yeah, I know, with all my little tabs.

Speaker A: Anyway, I Love it.

Speaker B: There it is, world. And I had. Oh, I do have my amusing m Ourselves to death notes.

Speaker A: There you go.

Speaker B: Yes, I did type them up. Okay, well, then. Oh, it's so okay. Squirrel. I don't know when it's coming out. Um, uh, I don't know when it's coming out. I don't know when it's coming out. I've. I. One of my dear friends, I did not come with this idea, but she also, one day is going to write a book. And I asked her, like, when is yours coming out? And it's. Her response. Every time is beautiful. She says, um, I'll know that when my fingers begin to move, that. That's when it's time. Like, then when the Lord says it's right for my fingers to begin to move, that the time will be right. So I think I'm really not escaping the question because I'm a project manager. I'm a pmp, if you knew that. But no, I mean, like, I know how to manage a project, but this is a More of like a heart, you know, like, uh, I want to

Speaker A: do it when time's right. The time is right.

Speaker B: Here it is. It's okay. I haven't reread it in a little while. It's been a while since I finished the draft. First drafts are always. You're dissatisfied with them. You know this. You've told me, like, you. There should be, like, 80 iterations. And I have so many ideas going, uh, on. And so one of those ideas was, golly, it'll take a while to get a book out. And people. People almost don't read anymore. That's the reality. And I'm not being ugly. I have. But I did buy a shirt that says, read a book, bruh. But I've never worn it because it's so, um, mean. It's, like, unkind. And that's not me. So I bought it for a friend, anyway.

Speaker A: But although people. If you go to the public library, the people will actually glam onto you and want to take selfies with you so they can put it on their Instagram.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Oh, gosh. It's so. Culture has changed so much. It feels so old saying that. But, um. So I don't know when this is coming out, but. But I've re. I. What I realized or have been realizing is, you know, what's fast and what gets a message out, uh, faster. And people. People. People that I know and love, maybe not the whole world, they like hearing from my voice.

Speaker A: Yep.

Speaker B: And so I started Gearshift Gab, that podcast, because of it. And when people ask me what it's about, I'm like, well, it's, you know, it's basically just like, me talking. So if you like that, you're gonna like it. If not, maybe don't listen. Um, but it's mostly about digital capitalism and trying to solve that problem. And a lot of it is like my verbal, my recorded diet, like a diary, but not too personal. Like, good enough to share, like, to help other people in their path. Like, hey, have you noticed this? I just learned this, and this is what I'm seeing in my life. Um, just kind of shining a light on and highlighting how, how digital capitalism is working, what we can do is about it. It's definitely hopeful. I'm not going to do anything that's not hopeful. That doesn't sound like a good plan to me. Not interested in that. I'm interested in providing, being encouraging and being positive. Uh, it's my nature. I don't often end a, uh, sentence, a sentence or a paragraph or a story with a, uh. Well, that's very sad. Have a good day.

Speaker A: Bye.

Speaker B: No, I resist that with all every fiber of my being to use your words. So I started Gearshift Gab because that's faster. Because in, in you, um, and we are emotionally intelligent human beings, so the message is communicated in a richer way when it's also coupled, um, with my voice and delivery and cadence and all the things. Linguistics. I don't know what else to call it. But, you know, from, from me. You know, it's from me. And you go, brilliant.

Speaker A: I, you know, I, I, I referred, uh, several people to it, and people are like, well, what is it about? It's like, it's from the genius of Julie Sands. Just trust me. You need to listen to it. Because I think it is as if you and I are in the car together, and all of a sudden you thought of an idea, and you just have to get that idea out. And what I like about it is they're short bits of knowledge and inspiration packed in facts and, um, you know, in these, these data points that you've gone out and you've researched and you looked at, but now you're verbalizing it just as if you're serving it up on a silver platter and be like, hey, this is not just my way of thinking. This is what the research shows, or, this is what I read. Feel free to go do your own research and look at it the way you did and what I What I think that is the most, uh, you know, there's lots of things impressive about you, but the thing that I love the most is the fact that you are just like you said with your book. There's my notes, I wrote them up. I mean I, you know, I went in, I highlighted, I underlined, I bookmarked and you know, dog eared and did all these things, but most people do that and then that book sits on their shelf. You're like, okay, that's cool. That was first edition. I read it. Now I'm going back through it and then I'm going to go back through it again. I'm actually going to take these nuggets and now I'm going to refine them and I'm going to put them into language that makes sense for me in a conversation form that might make sense to you and do it in a way that allows us to have or feel like we're having a conversation about these important topics. And I'm going to do it on the fly because I'm going between, you know, one appointment to the other or whatever. I love the concept and the mindset because it is, it is like a little motivational shot in the arm. It's not, not motivational in the sense of, hey, like you're trying to, you know, pump somebody up that's listening. You're trying to get them to think outside the box and look at things from different directions. And, and I think though, the thing I love about your approach is you're taking these little concepts off the shelf and you're kind of like, oh, okay, I'm looking at it from the front, but now let me look at it side and I'm going to look at it from the back and then I'm going to put it back up and go, okay, now I looked at it. Now what is my opinion of this and what do I think about it? How do I want to use this or leverage it? And that's where with your brother in his keen observation of his little sister, which is, you know, not easy to get from. I think that's pretty amazing that you did.

Speaker B: Thank you. I think so too huge.

Speaker A: Now, you know, now we can send him this episode and be like, good job, brother. Um, but at the end of the day, that's when you are a seeker. That's exactly what we're seeking is those that bit of information, that knowledge, that experience. And yes, you're putting your spin on it. You're putting it through your filter and your, your mindset and how you perceive it. But at the end of the day, you're also stimulating your audience to go through. Hey, don't take it from me. Go do your own research. Go look. And whether it's the concert you went to in the wide, you need to go check them out, too. Holy crap. Do you know why the government is controlling us through this digital automation? Let me show. Or not the government, but why the government should get involved in this process? Because we're being manipulated by a lot of these platforms. I just love the way your brain works. I. I really think that you are one of the unique voices that can present it in such a way that people are like, you know, I never thought about it that way. That. That is a really cool way.

Speaker B: Did you just say, I never thought of it that way? Yeah, because that's the title.

Speaker A: Go this way.

Speaker B: Oh, sorry.

Speaker A: A little more to your middle. Other way. There you go. Oh, that's on. There you go. I've never even heard of that book.

Speaker B: It's phenomenal. My mom and I were going to read it together. We didn't get it read. Um, we haven't gotten it read yet. I think we will. It's a beautiful book. It is about, um. It's a beautiful book. It's like. It's one of my number one problems. And that is the political division in this country. And this. The woman that wrote it, Monica Goosebaugh, um, she has one political standing. I won't tell you which one. And her parents had the opposite of it. And the story begins with. And they're very close. Like, they're a very close family. So they work through their differences while loving one another. And she's a truth seeker for sure. And, um, it's just a beautiful book. Ah. And I've just been helped by it tremendously.

Speaker A: That's awesome. Yeah. I'm gonna check it out.

Speaker B: Here's one quote. Like, I know the quote. And that is, we see people as we are, not as they are. M. That's good, right?

Speaker A: That is really good. Yeah.

Speaker B: And it is true.

Speaker A: Yeah. So true.

Speaker B: We will find it in our lives, like, moving. Since I read, I read. I actually. I'm such a nerd. I started reading this book because of the David Brooks book. And then I read this book. And anyway. But, um. So he quoted that quote also. And now since I read it the first time, that quote, I mean, just shows up everywhere, and I realize, oh, uh, what I think about this person is maybe more of a reflection of myself sometimes than it is me. Because we see the world as we are, not as they are. Like, it's just mostly not in the. It's usually whenever it's something bad, you know, and I'm like, oh, for some reason being critical or judgmental, I'm like, no, that's my hang up. That's not their hang up, that's mine.

Speaker A: And the key there is like, for people that hear that and think really intentionally about it, there's no way to, to, to not see that. Right? We have our own way of filtering the life experience. The people that we, you know, work with day in and day out, or the people that we're in relationships with, or maybe the stranger that, you know, we, we, we don't know why they're going off on the coffee shop or at the flight attendant or whatever, right? They, we all have these perceived perspectives and it's because the way our brain works is the only way that we can make sense of the world is to actually process it. And much of what we process comes through the ego. And the ego acts to loves to tell the story like this is why you're high and mighty and you're better than the other person, or why you're smarter, you're more capable, all these things. And when you actually think about it, like when you can actually separate yourself from self, to truly cut the cord to that filter and actually embrace people for who they are, what does that require? It requires that you actually have to have a conversation with them. You actually have to get to know their, their true heart. You get to know what is authentic about them. And you only get that way by asking true and honest questions and then turning the ego off and the filter off so that you can hear the answers and then take it back off the shelf and go, okay, I'm going to look at this thing around and I'm going to be like, okay, I see it because how many times. And I'll challenge our audience to go back. How many times have you met somebody in your life that you thought was one way and because of circumstances you ended up having to work with them or going through whatever, you end up on a, you know, meeting them several times over the course of a period of time or, you know, on an adventure of some kind? And like, what I thought was so vastly different than what they became or what they were. And most of the time it's because our story can only go so long. It's kind of like, um, I used to tell people, you remember those, um, uh, oh, what are those little things? That used to click the.

Speaker B: The finder.

Speaker A: Yeah. So eventually you come all the way back to dead square one right where you saw that person for who they were, but then all the way around and eventually like, oh my God, I can't believe I judged them so harshly or I can't believe I thought they were that. It's because our brain likes to just fill in the blanks and say you don't need to pay attention to these things, you don't need to worry. Which is also why these attention attractors are such a detraction to your life. Because they want to fill in those blanks for you automatically and then take you down this rabbit hole that never

Speaker B: lets you get free from it undistracted. You're so right. We're ah, we're designed to create efficiencies and conserve energy. Our brains want to conserve energy. So we stereotype, you know, that's a passion of mine.

Speaker A: We stereotyp question.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Well the thing I liked about so like talk very briefly about this one book. But you turn me on to halftime, which is like you get to a certain age and you recognize, okay, I am on the down hill slide of this last, you know, bit of my living, my career, the relationships where I want to go and how many of us actually take the time to actually recognize, hey, what has really lit me up or what has fulfilled me, but what is my real purpose in living where and what can I do with the genius that I've been given? The gift I've been given from God or whatever you would believe. But at the end of the day, how much of that has been tamped down by society? The work, the gotta get the, you know, the house payment paid and the car is paid for and I gotta raise the family. But then eventually we all get to that point where all of a sudden we're like, we're less encumbered now and it's time to start looking at what really is important to us. And Bob does a really fantastic job asking some very hard hitting questions to get you to think M. I ended up like doing a 30 day challenge myself and my, my uh, Ripple Connection journal which was taking one of those questions every day and actually living with that question and sitting in it starting in the morning, thinking about it at lunch and then actually recrafting my statement or whatever I might have captured in the morning to see how valid it was just by putting it forward into my thinking. And it was uh, unbelievably revolutionary to me because the things that I knew that I wanted to do and what I had accomplished or things that I had hoped to do, they just didn't quite ever make. All of a sudden started bubbling up. It's like, well, if not now, when? You know, why can't you do that? What's preventing you from doing that? All the excuses you have because you were so busy raising a family or coaching soccer or running two companies or whatever. Those. Those things are fine. But at the end of the day, they also were sort of limiters. Right. And what do you want to do with the second half of your life? To actually truly, you know, living in a way that you're going to be proud of by the time that you reach the end.

Speaker B: That's beautiful. It's. It's a, uh. Not wasting time.

Speaker A: Yeah. For your efficiency. Like, I don't want to waste time. I'm ready to get going and do the things I want to do.

Speaker B: Yes. Um, the, you know, undistracted and stolen focus. These are books. Stolen Focus and the Ruthless Elimination of Hurry. Like, the. I mean, uh, these have been, like, the ideas in them, of course, I already agreed with. So, I mean, I'm reading books about my. My husband says you're. I love this. I love the books that you read. They're kind of like Taco Bell. It's like the same book, but same ingredients mixed up differently. Like. Yeah, yeah, a little. Maybe a little. But we learn something new from every. Every interaction and every, um, you know, person that we, like I say, bump up against and conversations. Like, the conversations that we get to have. Like, I. I think I could go on and on, but you and I are on the exact same page. Like, we get it. We learn from interacting with people. Like, that point's been made. Um, I just. I'm with you on the. The midlife. I mean, it is. It's a midlife crisis book. It's what it is. And there's a reason that there's a name for it, because it is natural. And Arthur Brooks talks about it and from strength. From strength. It's from the fluid intelligence to crystallized intelligence. And he talks about getting rid of things in your life rather than adding them. Thus the ruthless elimination of hurry. Like, um. Just this recognition that the status quo. Like the status quo that is, uh, today's status quo of, uh, wherever my phone is. Thank. Good. I had to look for it. I like that.

Speaker A: That's good scrolling.

Speaker B: Like, that's the status quo. Like, that's what people are doing in their downtime. Because it's that dopamine lollipop, like our dopamine pacifier. It's so easy. We're so primed for it. I am too, like, but it. We're missing out on what halftime has for us, which is to live a really satisfying second half half of life. And what the research says is, we will get happier. We will get happier. Pardon me. The older that we get, we general generally get happier. But I don't know that the research is out there right now, um, with the cell phone addiction, like, I don't know if I am going to get happier as I get older with this. Like, I don't know what to call it. Albatross. I don't know.

Speaker A: It's just when you think about it, like, I don't think the data will really, really be all that valid, but will be 50 years from now, right? When they look at this generation and be like, look at what we either did or didn't do because of what was happening. And you tie that into the social networking sites, you know, pick any one of them. Or this incessant need to continually put our egos out on LinkedIn or, you know, the professional type applications that are out there, I think that's one thing. And then on top of that, this little squirrel came from nowhere and jumped on every bit of it to say, hey, I'm AI Now. Now I'm going to take away your ability to freethink. I'm going to take away away your ability to actually have to think through problems and solutions, because I'll give you the answers and I'm going to take away creativity and originality, and I'm going to now sit on top of all of the other stuff and be like, yep, what are you going to do about it? Because there's nothing you can right that. And I think that you have to be on guard and you have to be very, very committed to your defenses. We're not saying that you can't do these things or use them right, but use them with a. A keen eye on why these things are there, trying to get all of you, maybe give them a quarter, maybe give them 10%. Right? But I think the fact that in what you did with your podcast, which I love and I encourage everybody, it's on Spotify, so go get it. Go subscribe. She's brilliant at every level. You've already seen that. But, um, and we'll definitely include this in the show notes. But even with your first podcast and how you featured women that really inspire, motivate you, the Fact that you do these things in a way that says, okay, like aside from all that other distraction, there are people out there doing real work, doing real things that need to know about, um, you know, that there's alternative ways to get there. And part of that is by creating this mindset of seeker ism. And I love the fact that that is what you are and how you're about, because you are sort of breaking these things down in bite size chunks to get people to consume them and understand them. And just, just ask the question, you know, maybe your answer is going to be the same that it was before I asked the question, but take the time to just really think about it and pull that off the shelf and examine and look at it. And then if you feel comfortable with the way you're doing it, go ahead, continue to do it. Nobody here to say otherwise, but it might just be worth a little tiny revision and it might be worth just a little bit of an adjustment to do things just a little bit different than you've been doing it. Because when you do, you might find, wow, I still have some curiosity left. I may still have some creativity left. I may have a passion to learn something. A week ago, I never thought I wanted to learn. I use this as an example. I was interviewed for podcast last week myself and Guy was asking me, so what's your, what's your daily routine? I said, well, you know, I've been encumbered because of shoulder surgery, so I normally would go to the gym. But I was really good at trying to be mindful in my faith, in my space. I meditated every morning. I tried to use my journal to get some of my crazy thoughts out and onto paper. But what I've really started to do is I actually hold myself accountable for certain activities. I actually signed up for Duolingo like a year ago. It's one of the only apps I like using because it's actually making me better on multiple levels. And they're like, what are you learning? I said, I'm learning Spanish, I'm learning, uh, Italian, I'm learning Navajo, which I never ever in a million years would have a chance to learn. And I'm learning math because I was always told I was stupid in school. And the reality is I'm going back all the way to the basics, but I'm getting a and also music theory. So I've got like four or five things going on at any given time. And every day I'm taking a lesson or two from each of those. Not because the app Gives me a reward to do so. It does. Of course, all technology companies would be. Know how to do that, but at the end of the day, I feel better about myself because I'm laying a foundation for knowledge and experience that I never thought I could have or would never go back to school to get. But now my curiosity is just completely off the charts on a whole bunch of other things. So in that instance, it's using technology and making it perform for me, not. Not be performing, you know, making me perform for it. And I think that's just. It's been a big, big factor, but I think that you have to challenge yourself. And I feel like I've got a new lease on life because I'm learning things that I've never learned before.

Speaker B: Yes, learning is enjoyable. We're designed to love learning evolutionarily. Like, that's another passion of mine. Like, evolution taught us the better learners. We were like, if we could learn what's risky and what's, uh, you know, safe and what's risky, those are the people that survived. So evolution delivered us dopamine. When we learn, like, it's free dopamine, and it's. There's no. There are no negative outcomes. I wrote down, like, four things as you were talking. I could have gone on all of them. Um, Reclaiming Conversation is one of my favorite books also, and Sherry Turkle wrote it.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah. I love that book.

Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. Did you love it?

Speaker A: Yep.

Speaker B: Did you recently read it?

Speaker A: Yeah. Yep. It's awesome.

Speaker B: She says, I'm not anti technology. I'm pro conversation. Which might as well be embroidered on my wall. Like, I'm not anti technology. I'm pro conversation. Oh, she also says conversation cures. Yes, it does. Amen. Like, so good. And you said, like, just ask the question. I love that. Like, just asking the question. One of the. The things that you just said made me think of an interaction that I had with my brother that I'm so. I'm really proud of how I responded. Um, he was talking me like, it's a. I have two brothers, so you won't know which one I'm talking about. And they're both, um. They have, like, uh, exes. And so there was a parenting decision, and there was a parenting decision that he told me about. And my inclination was I didn't agree with his decision, but I didn't tell him that right away. Um, and he wasn't. He didn't ask me if I agreed. Right. Like, he was just telling me about the ongoings that you know, that had happened. And later, um, like, I almost. I almost use your exact words with them. I just said, I just think you might want to reconsider it is all. Yeah, you might want to reconsider it. And. And that was that. Who knows if he changed his mind. It's not about me changing his mind, but. But when people that we know, that we love are coming to us for advice or tell us these vulnerable things, like, the last thing I'm gonna do is lie to them. Or, you know, like, oh, uh, I guess I'm not even lie. Like, that's my job. Hold me accountable. Like, we're here to help each other be the best versions of ourselves that we can. So, anyway, I thought in my mind that was. I was really happy with how, um, with the words. I said. I was careful with them. I was really careful as I chose my words. Like, words matter. They carry a lot of weight. Um, and then you said, getting your thoughts out. Like, when you wake up and you get all these crazy thoughts out. We are creative people. You and I are creative people. And maybe most people are. I don't know. My mom says she's not. I mean, people claim it or dope, but I have just started to embrace, um, that I really value creativity. I do. I didn't know that I did. It's taken me a long time to figure it out, but I do. I think that it's, like, it's magical. Right? Like, that's where the good ideas come from, is marrying. Right? And my younger brother, like, my family's. I'm really close with my family, and they're really important to me, and their opinions matter. And, um, my younger of the two brothers, um, he called me one day, and he said, well, Julie, I just wanted to let you know I just finished listening to every single one of your podcast episodes.

Speaker A: Oh, that's awesome.

Speaker B: And I don't think any. I, Like, I wasn't intending the whole. The whole world to listen or anyone would listen. Um, I just, um. So we continued to talk. He said, yeah. So he started with a compliment. I just. And they were really good. Yeah, I listened to them, and they were really good. And he said. Then I told my boss about it, and I was like, what is hap. What is coming next? And he said. And. And I told him, she's driving. She's, like, driving while she's driving. She records herself talking. And his boss said, well, is she a narcissist? And. Which is. And I said, you know, maybe. I mean, maybe. And he goes, no. I said, no, she's not a narcissist. I think she's just like, I have this idea and I gotta get this down. Like, I don't want to lose it, I want to get down. And so you said it yourself, like when you wake up in the morning, you have this idea and like, I gotta, I want to get this down. And something that is an original thought of mine, like, I didn't get this from anywhere, or at least I'm not aware of it. I'm an original thought that I've, um, that's come up more than once over the past several years is we are prone to put people into two categories or ideas into two categories. So the two categories that I came up with in general, or how I'm acting, my behavior in two categories. Right. Is am I creating right now, creating ideas or consuming them? I'm watching a movie, I'm consuming it. I'm reading a book, I'm consuming it. I'm watching TikTok. I'm consuming it. I'm consuming. Or I'm building. Creating something out of nothing. And as a creative person, I mean, you're an entrepreneur and you're always building something. You have the Ripple podcast, the books, and I mean a million different things. And. And then something has been turned on inside of me over the last several years. And so there is something so life giving and energizing about creating. Putting something into the universe.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Instead of taking. Consuming doesn't. Like, I have to consume in order to create. Right. Like, anyway, so I don't really know exactly where I'm going with that, but that is probably the only original thought I've had in a while. Most of them I just read them and then, oh, you know, maybe marry them up together.

Speaker A: Except actually what you, what you're doing. I'll just challenge that way of thinking for one sec. Because really at the end of the day, what you consume and then you create because of what you consume is the genius that you bring to the world. World. There's. And I'll give you an example. Um, that, that just happened to me last night. Um, Netflix has this movie. I love Sally Field. She's one of my all time favorite actresses. She came out with a movie on Netflix called Remarkably Bright Creatures. You've got to watch this. You'll love it. It'll probably bring a tear to your eye without question. But what's amazing about it is not only is it a beautifully told story through the perspective of an octopus puss just so you know, it's very, very cool, but I couldn't stop thinking about it last night when I went to bed. It was one of the first things I thought about this morning. And it's all about taking that concept, that idea and that framework of the filter that we have put on ourselves that have oftentimes limited our choices, limited our interactions in an. On our own, own self confidence in ourselves and our place in the world, and it turns it on its head. Now, did the book do that or the movie do that? No, it's what I took from those things that then I recast that concept and that idea to say, okay, here's what I did with it. I went on and had two meetings this morning and I talked about this, this, this movie that you got to check out. Not because it's fun and entertaining or, you know, bring a tear to your eye, but because if you allow it, you can consume it and enjoy it for what it is, but then you can take what you learned and were inspired by it to create something different and new from it. And so that one is definitely one to put on your list. The other one that I just thought I would share with you because you will love this. It's a book. Have no freaking idea how I found out about this book. Hell, it might have come from you. I don't know. Theo of Golden. It's a book. Alan Levy. I think my son recommended it, but I'm like, I don't know how this ended up on my audible, but I'm going to listen to it. And the language and the interaction between the people in the first three chapters, if you're not completely hooked by how this guy, you know, auditorily gives this story, you need to go check yourself at an ER right then. Because the beauty of the, the language, the curiosity in the other people, in the ways our lives actually crash together in ways that we don't expect and at unexpected moments, but those things happen, those pivot points, you call them the milestones, right? Those, what I call ripples, those happen. And if you don't take something from that and recast it for the betterment of yourself and then therefore, the betterment of the world, then you are missing out on the whole point. And that's your, that's your whole mission as a seeker, to do these things and to do them in a way that allows you to understand and maybe make somebody else's life just a little bit better. You know? So two things I would highly recommend, if you're an audible person, definitely listen to the audio version of the book. But I, I also placed an order for the book today for just so I have it. But it's a really, really, really good book. But both of those. And apparently, according to Josh, my youngest son said that, um, that movie that I mentioned is a phenomenal book. And so he's in the process of reading it right now. He's like, I won't watch the movie yet. But the book is just so good. But it's those things that we seekers and we people. People are committed to taking and then making, whether you're consuming and then you're creating. I think your. Your recast there was so perfect because that is what you do with good ideas. That's what you do to make someone else's idea or some one else, you know, someone else's thoughts into your own. And that's, that's really how the world started and that's how we got better and that's how we create and where we are today. It's just, how do you recast it so that it makes sense for you, so that you live a life of purpose and meaning and you make a difference for the people that you come in contact with along the way, whether you're raising them as kids or you're married to them, or you've got your familial relationships or they're just your neighbor, you know.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, uh, I love, I love it. I think you, you nailed it. Our job. We have work to do while we're on this planet.

Speaker A: We do.

Speaker B: We. We all have work to do. And so many of us are just spellbound. Like that's the working title of my book is Spellbound. We're just in the matrix. We're, you know, hypnotized by these little devices and not, you know, again, I'm not anti technology. I need my phone just like the next person. I am pro conversation. And it's not, it's not what we. I think really like the, our sinful nature and you know, all that kind of stuff is. It will probably be less about what we do and more about what we don't get done. Like we all have a purpose. I'm like, wake up. Uh, wake up with me. Come with me, come with me.

Speaker A: This is a great way to start there. Right Be. Yeah, do that, do that. Go to the podcast. Listen to that. You know, we, there is a lot that we were going to get to. We did not get to. But I to wanted to be respectful of your time and I want to say we're just gonna have to do a follow up to this interview. I think my audience can see, like, when. When you. When you have such a cool friend like I consider you to be. Time goes like that when we talk. And there's so many ways. And what's awesome about, uh, all the twists and turns and all the uniqueness of the conversation is that's what we're really. That's the whole point of why we wanted to get together, talk and Frank first place, right? This is the magic that you do when you set your phone down and you have a conversation with another person. And you can do it at a level that really, really excites you to have it number one, but also motivates you to want to go do more and have more of that. So, you know, I'm. We're going to end this episode right now, but I want to say thank you for your time, um, and just your freaking awesomeness. I mean, you are just without question. And you. You ought to send it to B Brothers, because you mentioned it. And by the way, you're. Your mom is creative because, uh, she'll like this. I tell my wife all the time that everything is figureoutable. Right? So your. Your mom is exactly that. Right? So I don't know whatever the problem is, but we're going to figure it out. You got to be creative in order to get to the solution to solve that problem. So she's definitely that. But now you get. At least, you know, we'll get those three to listen to this episode, but they'll also be smiling the whole time because you are an excellent representative of the family and you are a absolute light to this world. So thank you for that.

Speaker B: Oh, my goodness. Thank you so much for having me on, Steve. I'm sorry we didn't get to the main points. Par for the course.

Speaker A: Yeah, it is very much par for the course. But you know what? Conversation happened exactly the way it was intended to happen, and that's the cool thing. So I really, really appreciate it.

Speaker B: Thank you so much.

Speaker A: All right, well, guys, we'll be back with another episode of the Ripple Effect podcast. But until then, Ms. Julie Sands ripple on.