#171 - From the Archives: Leading Great 1:1 Meetings

Speaker A: Hey everybody, Ethan Nash here. Hey. Just wanted to let you know that we will be taking a pause from new episodes for the next month or so. In the meantime, we will be releasing some of our previous favorite episodes, so make sure to keep checking them out. One of the reasons we are taking a pause is because we are hard at work over here at uh, Nash Consulting, launching a brand new program, um, and we're excited to tell you about it actually, because we are looking for a handful of leaders to be among the first to experience our brand new one on one leadership coaching program. And we have been hard at work in the lab with this project for the last year and we're excited to kind of do a launch with it. And so if you're interested in participating in this and want to be a founding participant, we're offering you 25% off the full program in exchange for completing the coaching experience and providing just some candid feedback to us along the way. And so. All right, what the heck is this? This program is built on our cornerstone Managing with Mind and Heart leadership development series. And this is a 16 session program that combines a structured leadership curriculum with personalized one on one coaching. So it's designed to be highly actionable where you will be taking action between every session. You will be experimenting with new approaches with a coach by your side to just support and encourage your progress. Um, and the cool part is that along the way you'll actually be building your own leadership playbook which is meant to be the end product of this. And it is going to be a practical operating manual for how you intend to lead, um, and the principles, practices and skills you want to lead by. And we will be supporting you as you develop this playbook along the way. So this coaching program, it is a leadership journey in three phases. Phase one is about self awareness and self management. Effective leadership starts with managing yourself. So here we are going to help you work on just building the personal foundation of understanding your values, understanding your strengths, your motives, mindsets, emotions, while strengthening your ability to manage yourself intentionally and effectively. Phase two is about social awareness and relationship management. It's about increasing your impact through others. So we're going to be focusing on skills and practices needed needed to build, uh, trust, communicate effectively, navigate conflict, provide feedback, coach employees, and just create healthy, productive working relationships. And then phase three is about systems awareness and systems management. It's about learning to set up a system that allows you to lead with discipline, consistency and intention. Um, that will help create greater clarity and alignment across your team and just build an environment that creates the conditions that enables individuals and teams to thrive. So if you are at all interested in this, just send us an email@contactashconsulting.com asking about this coaching program. And I will include a note on that in that email in the show notes. And we would love to hear from you if you're at all interested in this. And we'll send you more information and an application. All right, everybody, enjoy the episode.

Speaker B: Hey, Ethan.

Speaker A: Hey, dad. Good to see you, pal.

Speaker B: You too, buddy. I want to play the power differential game with you. I do this in class sometimes.

Speaker A: Okay,

Speaker B: here's how it works.

Speaker A: I like games.

Speaker B: All right. You're the employee.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: I'm the manager.

Speaker A: This is accurate for our situation.

Speaker B: This is accurate. But we're gonna have a little conversation here. Our topic today is one on one. So here's a conversation from our one on ones. Here's the game. I'm gonna ask you some questions. You need to answer my questions in a way that makes you feel safe.

Speaker A: In a way that makes me feel safe.

Speaker B: Keep yourself safe. Because there's a power differential here, right? So you gotta be safe. All

Speaker A: right, here we go. Let's play it.

Speaker B: Ethan. Hey, man, thanks for hanging out with me and spending some time having coffee with me. I got some questions for you.

Speaker A: All right.

Speaker B: Um. How am I doing as a manager? I. I went to a seminar. I figured I probably should ask these questions. How am I doing as a manager? Am I doing okay?

Speaker A: Um, yeah, yeah, no, you're. You're doing great as a manager. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker B: Thanks, man. I appreciate that. Let me move on. That's. That's good. That's good. Let me, Let me move on. Um,

Speaker A: okay.

Speaker B: How are the staff meetings going that I'm running? Are they, Am I running them pretty well? They going okay?

Speaker A: Uh, well, uh, yeah. I mean,

Speaker B: good. All right, I got one more. Is there anything you need from me? Anything you. Anything you've been waiting on? Are we good?

Speaker A: You know what? We're. I think we're good. We're

Speaker B: good. Hey, buddy, thank you for this conversation. I just feel warm and fuzzy. This is awesome.

Speaker A: Yeah, so do I.

Speaker B: Thanks, man. Talk to you later. Uh,

Speaker A: This sounds like a stupid question.

Speaker B: Probably is because. Yeah, go ahead. Skilled managers equals high morale, which equals all that cool stu that you cannot pay for and you can't punish for.

Speaker A: When you close off that feedback channel, you are not going to be able to hear the truth

Speaker B: in, uh, the first microseconds. Your brain can't tell the difference between Physical danger and what we call social danger.

Speaker A: I'm pissed off at you.

Speaker B: Me?

Speaker A: Just because you're my boss and all

Speaker B: employees tend to get promoted until they reach their level of incompetence. Go forward and don't suck. Hey, man, that game we just played?

Speaker A: Yeah. That was something, wasn't it?

Speaker B: It was. You did good. Um, so here's the thing. I know that was role play, wasn't real, but here's a real question for you. How did that feel when I was asking you those questions? What was going on inside of you?

Speaker A: Tension. Um, I had the feeling that perhaps you didn't want to know the truth or you had very specific answers you were looking to get out of me. That might not have been my accurate feeling on things. It seemed a bit like a formality rather than actual curiosity. And you trying to grow as a leader.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker A: I mean, just the way you phrased I. You know, how am I running meetings? I'm doing them well. Right? It's like. Well, actually, I wasn't going to say that, but it's a little awkward.

Speaker B: Yeah. I think that, you know, what happened there, I'm m assuming for you is that you went into a little bit of hyper vigilance. Like, okay, what does he want to hear? You know, and the rules of the the game, of course, were keep yourself safe. But even if I hadn't said that, I'm betting that that's where you would have gone. Right. Keep myself safe. This is my boss. He obviously wants to hear good news, so I better give him some good news right now.

Speaker A: Right. And you started it with, I just went to a seminar. I figured I should do these things. Bit disingenuous.

Speaker B: Obligation.

Speaker A: Right. Anyways, folks. Hey, welcome back to another episode of the Managing with Mind and Heart podcast. Me, I'm Ethan Nash. Him, he's my dad,

Speaker B: Michael Nash.

Speaker A: They call him Michael Nash. We are excited for today's episode. We alluded to it last or a couple weeks ago. Um, we're going to be talking about, like we said, running one on one meetings. Yeah.

Speaker B: We're going to, we're going to dig in this episode, into this practice that is, I think without being hyperbolic, I think it's probably the most important practice that a manager will take on.

Speaker A: Really,

Speaker B: I really do. You'll see as we go through this episode. But there are so many goals that get accomplished and so many of the things that you need to be doing as a manager that can happen right there in this regular scheduled one on one conversation with your employees.

Speaker A: Okay, uh, let's start off today's episode just by talking about why the why behind running one on one meetings in a workplace. Why do you preach that people definitely need to be having one on one meetings?

Speaker B: Well, I'll get to that by asking you a question, Ethan. Okay. And as a side note real quick, we're gonna, I promise the listeners, right. We are going to end this episode with logistics. We're gonna talk about how often, how long, you know, we're gonna talk about all that. So, so if you're kind of feeling anxious as we go through this about, well, how do I do this when I have this many employees or how often talking about, don't worry about that. We're going to get to that. So to get there though, let me answer your question with a question. What do you think are the benefits? Uh, and listeners, you can be thinking about this as well. What are the benefits of intentional regular one on one conversations versus the come see me whenever you need me open door policy? What do you think? I think it goes back to those top 15 management skills that we talked about in the last the two most

Speaker A: previous episodes. It's understanding what your employees need from you in order for you to best lead them.

Speaker B: Okay. Uh, yeah. So one of the benefits of one on ones, one of the reasons we do them is to really get to know our people in the sense of what do they need? Right. What does it mean for me to custom fit my management for this person? There's not a better way to discover that than intentional scheduled time. Let's do another one. Uh, here's, here's another, uh, benefit open door policy. Come see me whenever you need me. Can we agree that the topic quite often is going to be a problem? You know, there's a fire. I need you to help me put it out. Sure. I have a question. There's a problem. Not always, but what that means is that these open door policy conversations are quite often going to be more reactive as opposed to proactive. Because here's what's not going to happen in a, uh, in an open door policy, your employee comes in, hey, I've got this problem. What do you think? Okay, I'm going to help you with it. Just before you leave the room, I'm not going to say to you, oh, by the way, what would you like to see less of a. More of for me as a manager? Right. It doesn't really fit right there. The employee's like what, you know, catches them off guard. It's kind of weird. It's out of place. Well, your open door policy is not going to be the place where you're going to actually have these conversations that you really have to be having. Those are going to happen in these one on one conversations.

Speaker A: Right. Also with an open door policy, you might have, you know, frequent flyers and some people that never choose to fly

Speaker B: that well. That's exactly right. So let's, let's. There's a third reason our, uh, one on ones are going to kind of even out the. You know, I'm going to be distributing my time and I'm going to be getting to everybody as opposed to, you know, the people that are always using my opener policy versus those people that really should have been using it.

Speaker A: Right. And that again goes back to the top 15 management skills. That's called being fair and equitable.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker A: Yeah, that was number four.

Speaker B: Um, here's another reason we do one on ones, by the way. Side note to this, I am not saying to not do open door policy. I mean, I'm not replacing that with this. Right. Open door policy is, you know, that coupled with management by walking around. You should be doing that anyway.

Speaker A: Yeah. These aren't mutually exclusive things. You can do both at the same time.

Speaker B: That's exactly right. But here's another reason why the one on ones really, um, kind of, kind of COVID the basis open door policy. Who's pursuing who?

Speaker A: Uh, it's the employee pursuing you.

Speaker B: Right. One on ones. I'm pursuing them. I am showing interest. I am getting together with you proactively to ask questions and to build relationship. I'm doing that because I value our work relationship as opposed to, in a sense, open to our policy, if done poorly, can basically be. Look, when you need to be managed, come see me.

Speaker A: Right. That kind of defies, uh, the very definition of management.

Speaker B: Right. Which is about relationship. Relationship building. It's about encouragement. It's about lots of other things.

Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, and again, it's ultimately about knowing who your employees are and if you don't spend time with them, intentional time with, um, them, you're not going to be able to understand what they need. Like we've said.

Speaker B: Well, and I'll just. Let's top that off with one more kind of really important concept about this. Management is about building trust and respect with your people. M. And one of the things that gets in the way of that is the power differential, which we've talked about before. Right. So here we are. Power differential. Come cross the threshold, approach the throne to tell me you've made A mistake or to present a problem to me, depending on your background and your personality and your personal sort of mental health and lots of other things, you're going to have more or less trouble with that approaching me, uh, asking for what you need. I can, in so many ways, I can bridge the power differential gap by pursuing you, by building trust and respect through relationship building and et cetera. So what we'll be talking about today before we get to the logistics is what are these one on one meetings? Like what do they look like? What are we talking about?

Speaker A: That sounds good.

Speaker B: With that,

Speaker A: let's just jump into

Speaker B: how to actually

Speaker A: have these meetings. Right. I think we covered enough about why you need to have them,

Speaker B: so

Speaker A: we've decided you're going to start having one on one meetings with each and every one of your employees. Again, we'll talk about the logistics down the road here.

Speaker B: What do

Speaker A: those

Speaker B: meetings look like? What

Speaker A: type of questions should you be asking in those meetings? And should you be asking the same questions

Speaker B: every

Speaker A: time? I mean there's like, what's going on?

Speaker B: Yeah, this is complex partly because there's a lot of freedom here. There's, there's not a, there's not a recipe here. There's um, more of a menu. So we're going to kind of point out some, some principles and some best practices here. Here's the bottom line and we'll, we'll walk through several different concepts here. But these, these regular meetings are, uh, you're trying for what we call a task person balance. Your task task person balance. You're, you're not just being tasky. This is not just a. Well, here's, here's actually kind of a little example of this. I was, I was teaching one on ones years ago and just before I could even roll into it, I just mentioned one on ones. One of the, uh, people in class, she spoke up and she goes, oh, I've been doing one on ones with my people for years. They're awesome. They're so helpful. And I'm thinking to myself, well, this is great. You know, this here's a fan, here's someone who's going to support what I'm teaching. So I said, oh, that's awesome. Tell me about your one on ones. And she goes, okay, they're eight minutes long. And immediately I just, my alarm bells are going off, quite specific. That's very weird. Like not ten, not five.

Speaker A: Exactly eight,

Speaker B: eight minutes long. And so I said, okay, what are you doing in your eight minutes? And she goes, oh, well, we go over their tasks. You know, we go over their, their stuff that's going on that week. We, you know, talk through what's on their plate. Well, great. That's, there's nothing wrong with that conversation. I mean, if you want to have a weekly check in with your people one on one to talk about their tasks to make sure you're both on the same page and you know, you're air traffic controlling, nothing wrong with that, go for it. That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about a conversation that's not going to be as frequent as once a week. It's probably more like once a month. And it's a conversation that might include some tasky things, but it's also going to include some things that aren't going to show up in a task list.

Speaker A: Okay,

Speaker B: right. Things like, again, um, I want to ask for some feedback about myself as a manager. It might be, um, where are you on the challenge competency continuum? And we talked about that back in episode one or two, I think. Um, you know, are you, are you feeling overly challenged? Are you feeling a little bored? You know, what can we do to it? What can we do to adjust that? It could be. I'm going to be making a decision. I'd love to get your input. You know, there's lots of really cool things. In fact, here's, here's a way to conceptualize this. We just spent two episodes on the top 15 management skills. These one on ones are literally where for the most part you're going to be delivering your 15 management skills. It's right there. Now, when you look at the 15 things, some of those are a little more tasky, you know, make your expectations clear. Some of them are more relational. Right. Asking their opinions on different things. So that's the bottom line. These are summit meetings. These are kind of a get together, maybe have a cup of coffee, you know, get to some, you know, get someplace that feels comfortable and you're really going to have a conversation.

Speaker A: Okay, well, let's be, let's be very clear here. Let's talk about, I mean, objectives. What are your objectives as a manager with this meeting, like, meaning walking away from this meeting, what should be accomplished? Should and should there be anything specific to be accomplished?

Speaker B: It's going to be hard to put a specific label on this. What I would rather say is your goal. And I know this is going to sound fuzzy for some of our listeners.

Speaker A: Here we go.

Speaker B: Yep. Your goal is relationship building. And let's define that. I don't mean friendship building.

Speaker A: Kumbaya.

Speaker B: Don't get all weird on me, buddy. Okay, let's start with this first of our 15 management skills. Right. Show caring and respect. That's kind of a headline for the idea that I'm going to be spending this monthly, or whatever it is, this time with my employee, one on one, building trust and respect. And so that's really the goal. It's not a definable black and white check a box thing. This is really about. I'm going to spend regular time with you in some cases just kind of dealing with whatever we need to deal with. Right. There's not going to be a really firm agenda necessarily, but my mindset is going to be relationship building, checking in, supporting you, finding out what you need. Here's the best way to look at it, is go back to those 15 things, look at that list. That's your goal. And here's a side note, I don't mean you're going to do those 15 things every time. And I'm not even kidding. I actually had a manager who after class made a checkoff sheet of the 15 management skills with the intention of bringing those to his one on ones and literally checking off all 15 things.

Speaker A: Number nine, be approachable.

Speaker B: Yeah,

Speaker A: I see you. Welcome to my office.

Speaker B: Check. Right. How's your wife? Caring and respect. Check. No, the idea is over time, as you're having these one on ones, you really are going to be working through those 15 management skills. And so that's kind of the answer your question. It's a little bit fuzzy, but what's the objective? What's the goal? It really has to be relationship building. And if you remember that, you will then not be tempted to go back into a really tasky, you know, hey, how's your task list? Okay, got it. Check. Let's be done.

Speaker A: Right. Is it fair to say though, like the overarching goal with any of these one on one meetings is to understand that employee better, to understand their needs better, to understand their motivations better, to understand them as a human being better.

Speaker B: I think that's one of the goals that I would probably put as a subset, uh, under relationship building. Right.

Speaker A: Well, I think relationship building is tied into that. Yeah, for sure. You getting to know them better as a person do that without building relationship with them.

Speaker B: Yeah. And the more I know those things, as you're pointing out, the better I'm going to manage you, the better I'm going to be able to meet your needs and, you know, support you and equip you the more I know you. So yeah, think of it as trust and respect, getting to know that person, relationship building. Now this seems simple. I don't know if that makes sense. Maybe not simple, but conceptually this is simple. But as we all know, uh, we're just busy, right? We're busy at work, we're getting our tasks done. As managers, you know, it's really hard to keep this in mind that probably the most important thing I'm going to do as a manager is build trust and respect with my people.

Speaker A: So we have the, you know, that kind of tasky, uh, how'd you say it? Tasky relationship.

Speaker B: Task person,

Speaker A: task balance, person balance. What happens when you leave out the person and it's just tasks?

Speaker B: Yeah, well,

Speaker A: uh, because I've had those one on ones not with you necessarily, but

Speaker B: necessarily.

Speaker A: Yeah,

Speaker B: yeah. No, if that's the pattern, meaning my boss's one on ones with me are just sort of check in task related meetings. Uh, again there's, it's not, there's nothing wrong with it in the sense that you know, that person keeping a tab on my tasks and supporting me in that way is great, but it does nothing to elite alleviate the power differential. In fact, if anything it emphasizes it.

Speaker A: And what happens if you don't alleviate the power differential?

Speaker B: Then I'm unapproachable. That person's not going to be willing to come talk to me with authenticity. They're going to be more afraid to point out or to admit a mistake or an error. They're not going to give me feedback. You know,

Speaker A: I show up as their best selves.

Speaker B: They're not going to bring their hearts and their minds to work. So this is really big. I mean it's, it's conceptual, it's a little fuzzy. But the idea is relationship building with your employees doesn't happen by itself. Um, it doesn't happen magically. It happens because you as the manager put effort toward it. And one of the best ways to do that is to kind of build into your culture in this department or in this organization. Better yet, managers and employees get together on a regular basis for this kind of check in.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, uh, a lot of the organizations we work with, I mean they've now built this into the. We as a management team at this, at X company will have scheduled intentional one on ones with our employees because they've seen the importance of this and they've seen the benefits of when this happens.

Speaker B: Yeah. In fact we've seen, we've now worked with companies long enough we can actually see the long term results, uh, of the morale that gets increased. You get fewer behavior problems, which actually ends up saving you time. You have fewer junior high behaviors. People

Speaker A: are communicating better. Right. Because we're sitting down with people and taking time to communicate with them. Right?

Speaker B: Yep. The approachability increases so that proactive, uh, behaviors show up more often than reactive behaviors.

Speaker A: People are being held accountable to a higher degree, which is huge. So the person task balance, you got to have that. Now let's dive into kind of more the nitty gritties of the how. Right. How to have these conversations with. What type of questions should you be asking here?

Speaker B: That's a great question. We're going to, in these, in these meetings we're going to be doing a variety of things, asking questions, uh, maybe giving some recognition and thanks. Um, you know, lots of different things we can do, but one of the main ingredients is going to be questions is you as a manager asking questions. So let's dig into this because there's actually ways to, to ask questions that are more likely to get honest, authentic responses.

Speaker A: So it's not necessarily specifically what questions you have to ask them, although that surely matters, but it's also how you ask those questions. Right. Because if you go back to the beginning of this episode, you were asking actually good questions, but how you asked them

Speaker B: sucked.

Speaker A: Sucked. Right. Hey, I'm doing a great, uh, job, right? Yeah, it's like that's much different than saying I really know. I really want to know how I'm doing with X.

Speaker B: Yeah. Let's dig into some hows and then we'll get to for sure the actual specific questions. Because we really do have a lot of ideas as to what you could be asking. But let's talk about how to form those questions. And there's, there's a couple nuance y sort of tricks of the trade here. Um,

Speaker A: you got to end it with a question mark.

Speaker B: Yeah, I have a question mark. I'm

Speaker A: just talking about how to ask good questions.

Speaker B: All right, that's pretty simple. But let's get a little bit more complicated here. So, uh, avoid close ended questions. I'm going to give you two principles right up front. We're going to avoid the close ended questions and we're also going to include permission for critique, uh, in your question. So let's go back and visit those questions I asked you before. I asked you, for example, hey, how am I doing as a manager? All right. Mhm. Okay. Number one, that's a close ended question.

Speaker A: That's an open Ended question.

Speaker B: That is a closed ended question.

Speaker A: How am m I doing as a manager?

Speaker B: And here's why it's closed ended, because we're redefining the definition of close ended.

Speaker A: Oh, and who gives you the right to do that?

Speaker B: I can define whatever I want.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: Close ended question is a question that can be answered with one word and that word could be fine.

Speaker A: Okay. A

Speaker B: uh, close ended question is a question that does not invite an actual sentence as an answer. It doesn't require any conversation. In fact, I could end the conversation with one word. Uh, how you doing today? Fine. Am I doing well as a manager? Yes or no? Right. See, so

Speaker A: when you're saying close end questions, it's literally questions that you can't answer with a yes. No, great, fine. You have to elaborate, you have to expand. That's exactly going to take some cognitive effort.

Speaker B: Right. So here's the difference. Right? How am I doing as a manager? Or what would you like to see me work on as a manager to improve? Now, what I, what I've done, that's the right answer. Nothing. Because I'm awesome. Um, here's the thing. The second principle I just gave you, which was include permission for critique. I just did that right there. Right. So when I said to you, how am I doing as a manager? I'm kind of, what am I hoping for?

Speaker A: You're hoping for some ego boosts.

Speaker B: I'm open for awesome or great or I mean, even fine would be a little insulting. Like, right? I want, I want. You rock. Right? Mhm. You know that because of the power differential, you're going to be sensitive to this. Instead, what if I made the right answer a critique? What would you like to see less of or more of from me as a manager? Okay, now not only is that open ended, you can't say yes, no, or fine. Right. The right answer is a critique. Mhm. Let's do another one. In fact, I'll let you change this question. Fix this question. Here's the, here's the bad version of it. Close ended and not including critique. Hey, how the, how are the staff meetings going?

Speaker A: Good.

Speaker B: Okay, now react, fix that question.

Speaker A: Hey, I want to know from you, you know, what about the staff meetings you think is going well and what about the staff meetings that you want to see improved or done differently?

Speaker B: Perfect. Yep, that's exactly right.

Speaker A: Bingo.

Speaker B: Bingo. You got that one. You could, you could say, um, if you were running staff meetings, what would you do differently than what I'm doing? Right. Open ended. It's obviously looking for Feedback. I'm looking for critique. Right?

Speaker A: Yeah. I mean folks, this isn't even necessarily intuitive for most people. Like it wasn't for me at first. It's because the, your heart is there with asking these questions a lot of the time. But it really is the skill and the tact with how you ask them. Making sure that they can't kind of just brush the question to this side. Right. And making sure you open yourself up, um, to critiques and critical feedback.

Speaker B: Yeah. Otherwise they're going to be afraid of the power differential. Let's do one more because this one actually gets to a really easy.

Speaker A: Can I just say one more thing for a lot of us, uh, speaking about myself, these are not the type of meetings that I can just go into and be prepared to ask these questions in the right way. Like I might have ideas of what I would like to know, but I actually have to think ahead of time of like how will I ask this question in a way that's not closed ended.

Speaker B: Yeah. In fact, that's a really good point, Ethan. I encourage our listeners, as you think about either starting these one on ones or improving them, be thoughtful, take some time ahead of time. I mean, even if it's five minutes, take some time and think through the way you're going to ask these questions. It makes a big difference.

Speaker A: It does so matter to them. Yeah, go ahead.

Speaker B: So this other example I want to give you is this, uh, the third question I asked you when we were doing the little game was is there anything you're waiting on from me now? What am I hoping you're going to say?

Speaker A: I'm hoping you're gonna say no because if I say yes, that's more things I have to do.

Speaker B: That's exactly right. Is there anything you're waiting on for me as a closing in question? Yes or no? Right. What are you waiting on? Hey, what are you waiting on for me? What do I still have out? Not only are you asking an open ended question, you're clearly building in permission.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: What's the assumption? When I say what do I have out? Or what are you waiting on? What's the assumption? So assumption is I'm not perfect.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And there's humility built right into that question. So it's much easier for you answer that question as an employee. Mhm. As opposed to oh, uh, am I going to say anything? He's, he's kind of hoping that there's nothing. So should I just be quiet?

Speaker A: Right. And the reality is there probably is stuff that you haven't yet followed up on as a manager. I mean, you're balancing so many things. And guess what? If you ask the question the right way and there really isn't, I bet you're going to feel even better. Yeah. There you go, Mr. Ego.

Speaker B: It's a win. Right, Right. So. So here's the thing. If you're wondering how to change the question to the open ended permission thing, the word what is actually pretty helpful. Right. Are we having any problems with the other department? Uh, well, what problems or issues are we having with the other department? Right. So you can actually change a lot or pretty quickly figure out how to get your head around both these principles, the open ended and the putting the permission for critique in there by using the word what as the beginning of your question.

Speaker A: Okay, that's good to know. What will fix it all?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, lots of things. Like what would you like to see less of or more of? M. And that's not going to fix every one of these questions. But bottom line is, ask the question open ended, put permission for critique in there. A couple more things around questions. Um, be willing to do the follow up. You know what else? Because a lot of times employees are going to get up the guts to give you one thing. Right? So. So, so what are you waiting on from me? We'll just role play this, but, uh, what are you waiting on, Ethan? Anything that I. What do I have out that you're still waiting on?

Speaker A: I need you to finish that article for the upcoming newsletter.

Speaker B: Oh, you're right. You know what? I'm gonna put a note on that. All right. What else? What else? Anything else?

Speaker A: Um, a raise.

Speaker B: All right, I think we're done here.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: No. Okay, so. So what else? A lot of times, you know, here's another really good example. What would you like to see less of a. More for me as a. A manager? Oh, well, I guess I'd like it if you would follow through more. Okay, thanks. Oh, how'd that land?

Speaker A: Right? You

Speaker B: know, he doesn't want to hear anything more. So. So no, just keep, keep digging in. Keep digging in. What else? You know, what else? What else are you thinking about?

Speaker A: Right? Is it. Is it fair to say, you know, so you. So you ask this question. What, what do I need or what do you need me to do more of or less of as a manager right now? Yada, yada, yada. They say I need you to do, you know, finish this newsletter article now with that, is it required that you kind of elaborate on that? Like, oh, yeah, let me Explain where I'm at with that, or here's the reason why I haven't gotten that to you yet. I mean, do you need to do that as a manager as opposed to saying, okay, thank you, move on to the next thing.

Speaker B: I think the bottom line, and I know again, this is a bit of a fuzzy concept, but I think authenticity is the right answer. And that as long as the concern about that is, as long as that doesn't turn into something that sounds defensive. Right. So if you say to me again, you know, hey, I'd like you to get that article to me, I could be totally authentic and say, oh, um, my gosh, that completely fell off my radar. I apologize. I'm really glad you brought that up. It's now back on my radar. So there's a, there's a very authentic response. I could also say, I know I'm late on this. I want to apologize. I should have told you a couple days ago that I was going to miss our deadline. So again, there's authent, there's, there's humble. What I don't want to say is, well, I'm just really busy. I haven't got that to you because I got this. And you know,

Speaker A: right

Speaker B: now I'm making excuses. I'm, I'm being defensive. Yeah.

Speaker A: You gotta be careful as a manager or as, you know, a person in the workplace to go anywhere that starts to sound like an excuse, especially as a manager kind of explaining. Well. Yeah. Like you said.

Speaker B: Yeah. Because there's already a power differential and now I'm making it. I'm kind of punishing you a little bit. Mhm. For bringing that up.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: When I start getting defensive.

Speaker A: Yeah. And they're not gonna, they're not gonna be candid with you next time if that's what you do. Yep. So the questions that we've been talking about, these kind of sound a little bit more on the tasky type side until the people type side. Am I reading that correctly? Because you are talking about, hey, what do you need more of from me? What, um, have I not followed up on? Are those tasky type questions?

Speaker B: I actually, let's kind of talk about task person again. I actually think they really cover the gambit. I don't think we have to have a stark differentiation between if I was going really tasky, it would be the questions around your tasks.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And let's make sure you're on point.

Speaker A: Yeah. Hey, how are you doing with this project?

Speaker B: Exactly. And holding you accountable for something and making sure my expectations Are clear. Those are great things to do and those are the tasky side. Almost everything else, it's still work related, but it's about us and you and how we're working together. And that's what makes it people oriented.

Speaker A: Okay, well, here's where I might have a little bit of confusion. Where is the line to draw with asking, you know, personal questions? Because when you said, you know, there's the people and there's the task. When you said people, I was thinking, hey, how, you know, how is your, how's your husband doing? How's your, how was your kid's soccer game last week? You know, how's your dead dog? Things like that. What? I mean, how.

Speaker B: How is your dead dog? He's dead.

Speaker A: Sorry. That's definitely not a question you should ask.

Speaker B: That's how he is.

Speaker A: Okay, well, geez, don't get the question. That's

Speaker B: like the dumbest question I've ever heard.

Speaker A: Okay, well, you know, we're all learning here.

Speaker B: Okay, so, um, actually what you're bringing up is key because this happened with one of our recent clients. We taught this concept, we went all through all the kinds of questions you could be asking. And so I thought they had a really good foundation, but they kind of made that same error. And it's probably based on the way we're wording it. We need to be more careful with this. But what they walked away with, at least there was a small group of them. Um, they walked away with. Okay, so Nash Consulting is telling us that these one on ones have to at least be half personal. Like digging into personal questions, which makes us really uncomfortable. And it caused a whole kerfuffle. And is that a word? Kerfuffle?

Speaker A: Kerfluffle. Yep,

Speaker B: it

Speaker A: is in the urban dictionary.

Speaker B: It caused a kerfuffle. And because what they were thinking was, wait, we were just taught we have to ask everyone about their personal lives. And that's not what we mean. So let's step back.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: Is there some room for asking some of those questions? Yes. Yeah. How was your weekend? Right. Um. How's your dog? Your live one?

Speaker A: Yeah. Now, okay, but are you saying those are. Some of those should be built in.

Speaker B: I think here's the bottom line. You are going to get to know your people and you're going to be able to figure out that this person here, right, Deborah from accounting, she has very clear boundaries around talking about her personal life. You've noticed it. She gives you short answers when you ask about her vacation. She doesn't want to Go there and you have situational awareness. You pick up on that and you just say to yourself, okay, I'm not going to go there with her. Yeah, I'm going to be. I'm going to be more cautious about that.

Speaker A: She doesn't talk about personal stuff. That's fine.

Speaker B: Now, I'm not going to leave out, though, just because it would be weird to leave it out. I'm still going to say things like, how was your weekend?

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And if she wants to say, fine,

Speaker A: how's your day been going so far.

Speaker B: Exactly. We're still going to be nice. We're going to still be relational. Now this other person over here, you know, James from engineering, you know, man, he'll bend your ear for an hour about his hunting trip and, you know, and how things are going with his one kid who's having trouble in school. He'll

Speaker A: ask. Just a smile and nod kind of conversation. Right.

Speaker B: You know, you're going to get into it, depending on how much time you have, and you're going to go there, you, uh, know, again, using your own boundaries. Bottom line, there's not a hard and fast rule about how much time you spend on that. I think it's wise to be curious and to be very cautious and conscientious of people's, uh, boundaries.

Speaker A: Right. And be conscientious not to spend like the whole meeting there. Right. Because I've had a manager like that. It's like, you know, I'm a fairly open person. You know, she starts asking, how was your weekend? How did, how did the game go that you went to? Next thing you know, an hour is done and we've just been talking about the weekend and, you know, Kicking the can.

Speaker B: Yeah. Doing what?

Speaker A: I. I said kicking the can. Kicking

Speaker B: the can.

Speaker A: Yeah. Instead of, you know, kicking the.

Speaker B: Kicking the can. That. I don't think that I know what that means.

Speaker A: I'm pging it up for people.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: But, uh, yes.

Speaker B: All right, so. So let's go back to this. So, so that stuff there, the personal, personal, like how you do, how's your weekend, et cetera. Let's call that, you know, 5 to 10%. You know, let's. Let's give that. If that, if that, you know, 2 to 5%, 2 to 10%. That's what that is. The rest of the 90%, we're in the land of work here, and that's still going to be people related. It's not just tasks. It's things like, um, let's talk about your, um. In your job. Let's talk about the autonomy that you have and that you wish you had. Right. So where are some areas where you'd like to have a little bit more control and have me maybe do less checking in? Let's talk about that. Right, here's another one. Uh, I mentioned this before. Let's talk about that balance between you feeling challenged and you feeling competent. You know, where would you put yourself along that line? Are you feeling very, very competent and therefore kind of bored? Are you feeling very, very challenged and therefore kind of frustrated? Well, where would you like to be?

Speaker A: Okay. And

Speaker B: how can I help you get there right now? These are tasks. Yes, but they're also people. Right. It's relationship.

Speaker A: Okay, thank you. Yeah. It's useful to kind of help me parse out the difference there between talking about their personal lives and talking about them as an individual, as a person in their workplace. And maybe we'll get down, get to this a little bit further down the road here. But I have been in situations where I go to these one on one meetings and bless their heart, they're doing the right thing. They're having one on one meetings. You're halfway there. Right. But it was kind of the same questions being asked every

Speaker B: meeting.

Speaker A: Ah. And I would have one once a week. And it was like, okay, so, you know, where can I, um, where can I do better in X category? It's like, well, you asked me that last week. Right. Are, uh, you really, you know, they start to come across as kind of a bit insecure and. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. And I know I'm rambling on here, but, you know, how do you address that?

Speaker B: Yeah, that's really good. In fact, what I recommend that managers do is create a list. And we actually do this in class. And it's an exercise that you can do on your own or you can do with a management team. Spend some time just brainstorming all the different kinds of questions you could ask. And we're going to do that right here, in fact, right in front of you, because I think this would be really worth it.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Um,

Speaker B: because what you can do then is you can have a whole bunch of like a whole repertoire of things to draw from. And when we finish our class, um, we actually end up with more than a year's worth of one on one conversations. M in People's Notebook from the workshop. So let's, let's. So the idea is, yeah, let's not create some kind of template where you're asking the same thing every Month. Let's, let's, let's shake it up. Let's mix it up. So let's take some time on this right now. Let's kind of talk through, and we're only going to cover a little bit of this, but let's talk about some of the questions you can be asking during these one on ones.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: So I've already given you some of the freebies. Right. We've done, you know, uh, staff meetings. You know, what would you like to see more of or less of? Um, how would you like to improve staff meetings? We've talked about asking for feedback. What would you like to see more of our lessa from me as a manager, and I like the way you threw in there. What am I doing? Well, what would you like to see me do differently? We've talked about the challenge, competency continuum. Um, what, what, what are you still waiting on from me? What do I have out? You know, what have I missed? Um, let's. Let's add some. Let's add some new ones. Um, what's, what's something that makes you excited about coming to work every day? And what's something that gives you a little bit of heartburn about coming to work? Um, in, in a sense, I'm asking what do you like about your job and what do you not like about your job? Now, I out to a group a month ago, two months ago, and someone said, I never asked those kinds of questions. The, the negative part of that because I'm afraid of stirring up negativity.

Speaker A: Right. I don't ask questions that I don't want to know the answer to.

Speaker B: Yeah. Or the idea that I'm somehow going to make you negative by making you talk about something that you're already negative about.

Speaker A: Guess what? That negativity is there, whether you address it or not. That's

Speaker B: exactly.

Speaker A: Addressing it probably, probably takes the power away from that negativity a bit.

Speaker B: Well, the problem is. Or the fact is they're probably already talking about this somewhere. Right. With other people. So

Speaker A: not with you. Not

Speaker B: with you. Right. Who could maybe do something about it.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So it's better that they talk about it with you than other people anyways.

Speaker B: Yep. Yep. How about, um, your career goals? I think you mentioned this maybe in a previous episode. You know, what do you. Where do you want to be? Right. What do you want to be doing in five years or ten years? Um, and that could even include even more currently, you know, what are you doing now in your work, in your tasks and your job? That you like? What are you doing that you don't like? What are you not doing that you wish you were doing?

Speaker A: Right? Right? Or another way to maybe say this is, you know, hey, you know, when you're at work, in what situations are you having the opportunity to do what you are best at doing? And on the flip side, hey, what situations do you feel like you're doing something that you're just not. Not either don't like to do or just don't feel good, not

Speaker B: feel competent? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, what roadblocks are in your way? You know, what, what are. What, what are. What's keeping you from doing your best work? Is it. Is it some of our bureaucracies? Is it, Is it, um, a skill issue is a lack of training? Is it other people? You know, what, what's in the way?

Speaker A: Yeah, I really like the, the magic wand questions. Those are my favorite kind of questions because you can really gauge, you know, where somebody or what, what somebody wants to see improve, right? So, you know, hey, if you had a magic wand, um, you know, how would you change this culture? What about this culture? Would you just poof. It would change overnight.

Speaker B: That's good,

Speaker A: right? And I know that's kind of thinking big and things that you might not be necessarily able to change right away, but you're understanding, you know, where this person is coming from.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's. That's really good. I love that. If you had all the money. If we had all the money in the world is another magic wand question, right? What, what equipment would we have or what, um, trainings would we offer? What do you need from me? You know what, what kind of support and advocacy do you need from me for you to be more successful or for you to feel like you have everything you need? That's another. Another great question.

Speaker A: Okay, well, shoot, I'm running out of questions right now. Yeah,

Speaker B: there's my head. This again. Let me just encourage our listeners to spend some time with this. You know, you can ask questions around accountability, you can ask questions around culture. You can ask questions about their future. You can ask questions about the relationship, the functioning of the organization, what's working, what's not. Um, how we can improve relationships with that other department over there. Um, how can we improve our customer service? Um, tell me about the morale. What's your take on how people are feeling about being here? Um, what attracted you to this job, and did it turn out to be everything you hoped? And if not, where are the gaps? Literally, we could spend hours right now. We Won't promise you guys we won't. But so many things we could talk about in these one on ones.

Speaker A: Uh, I mean the bottom line message here is that there are tons and tons of questions that you can ask and ways you can ask them that you really don't need to repeat the question week in and week out. Now that's not to say that you shouldn't follow up on the questions that you asked in the previous week. What would you like to see different here in the next month or so? It would probably be good a month or so later. Do you ask, hey, have you seen change in this area or where has there been a lack of change in this area?

Speaker B: Yeah, this is going to seem like a really practical statement, but show up to these one on ones with something to write with and write on. Mhm. You know, and I, and I kind of recommend this is maybe a nuance, not opening up your laptop and typing. There's a psychological barrier that you create right there between you and that person. I know it sounds old school, but you know, maybe show up with a notepad or an iPad. That's even a little better than your, you know, open laptop. There's, there's something psychological about talking to your boss while he's typing or while she's typing. But write, write stuff down. Because you're absolutely right, Ethan. You know, when you ask that question, for example, about staff meetings and then you start practicing that thing they suggested m it would be a great idea to circle back and ask them their thoughts.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Another way to follow up is say, hey, I'm glad we're talking about this. I'm going to be collecting this information from each of the employees during this round of one on ones. And so I'm going to be gathering your guys thoughts from these conversations and then I'll circle back with you guys as a group.

Speaker A: Yes. And

Speaker B: we'll talk about this.

Speaker A: You just got to write it down.

Speaker B: Uh,

Speaker A: your head's for having ideas, not for holding them.

Speaker B: Your head is for having ideas, not for holding them. Yeah, I like that.

Speaker A: All right,

Speaker B: that's really good. Hey, one more thing about questions. Questions. Um, for some of the questions, you're going to want to preload the question as opposed to catching them off guard right there in the moment. And this gets to our whole preview for our listeners. Right. We're going to be talking about behavior styles at some point, but half of us are what we call processors and half of us are expedients and there's a lot of differences between processes and expediences, one of the differences is the way we process. Processors are more likely to think, to talk, and expedients are more likely to talk to.

Speaker A: Are you,

Speaker B: you know which one I am.

Speaker A: So half of the people in this room are expedients, and half the people in this room are processors.

Speaker B: That is, that is actually true in our case. Uh, it's also true in almost every, um, marriage or partnership, um, a romantic partnership between you and somebody else. Almost always one of you is going to be a processor and one of you is going to be an expedient. Now in my marriage, it shows up like this, especially our first five years of marriage, we're having an argument about something and I am chasing her around the house trying to get her to talk to me so I can process. And she apparently can't process while being chased. She's got to be alone. Yeah, she's got to be alone. And then she can process it and then she can talk about it. And the reason this is relevant here is because when I'm sitting down with someone who's a, uh, processor and I say to you, with no warning, no prep, hey, Ethan, what would you like to see more of or lessa from me? As a manager, it's likely that you'll have something really good to say tonight.

Speaker A: Right?

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: At least in an hour.

Speaker B: In an hour, but not right that second. So then you stutter and stumble and don't quite get out what you want to get out, and it turns out to be not a very satisfying or effective conversation.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And if you're an expedient who talks to think, preloading for them is also helpful because I'm an expedient and you ask me a question, I promise you I'll have an answer. But it pro. It won't be the answer that I wish it had been.

Speaker A: Right. If

Speaker B: I had given myself an hour.

Speaker A: I see.

Speaker B: Or five minutes. Right. So preloading the question just means occasionally when you're going to ask. Kind of one of those deep dives. You might want to put out an email to your group. If you're going to be asking everyone that question or at the previous staff meeting, just say, hey guys, I'm going to be looking for some feedback this coming month. Uh, during our one on ones about this decision I'm about to make. Let me bounce it off you now so you guys can be thinking about it because I'm going to be asking you about it it later.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I, and I love that. And I, I would actually, you know, I would encourage everybody to do that because you do. You accomplish a number of things there. First, if you're sending out, you know, some questions that you plan to cover in the meetings and you send them out ahead of time, you yourself are kind of forced to then prepare for that meeting. Yeah, right. Think about what questions you're gonna, you're gonna ask. That's one thing you accomplish. Two, what you just mentioned, it helps, it helps you and them have a more fruitful conversation because they've thought about these answers ahead of times and right to it, you're saving time because there's not a lot of kind of back and forth of thinking and stuff. You know, they've thought about these ahead of time and you got something to

Speaker B: say. It's very respectful because putting someone on the spot and then having them stumble or not say something they wish they would have said, or in my case, saying something they wish they hadn't said, it just creates an uncomfortable environment. So let's respect our people enough to be proactive and give them some time to think about it. Now, this won't happen every time, right? It's just, just, it's. This is a bit of a high bar for me to be that proactive every time. It's not going to happen. If you didn't preload, you can actually sort of preload right in the conversation. Hey, you know, this 45 minutes we're going to spend together toward the end, I'm going to be asking you, um, for some feedback about my management skills. And what would you like to see less of a, more of just kind of tuck that in the back of your brain as we're, as we're chatting about other things. Now, that's not ideal, but it actually works. It helps people, people at a process, you know, kind of in the back, in the background, choking up over here.

Speaker A: That's. All right, let's change gears a little bit here. We'll still be talking about one on ones. We've discussed the, the why, we discuss kind of more of the how, what questions to have. I mean, there's a lot to talk about there, but let's talk more about the, the logistics, right. The winds, that type of thing. My first question to you is, is there an ideal place to have these one on ones and is there just straight wrong places to have these

Speaker B: physical places,

Speaker A: physical locations?

Speaker B: Um, let me start with just a really funny, weird little story. This was the accounting manager who went to one of his accountants and you got to remember what Accountants do all day. They basically sit. Uh-huh. In this case, in a cubicle. Huh. All day long. And the manager says he's trying to be creative. He goes, hey, you know what? For our one on one, uh, this afternoon, let's go for a drive.

Speaker A: No.

Speaker B: Yeah. And the employee said to me later, he's like, I thought he was gonna say bring a shot, you know, I was like, this is scary. What do you mean, go for a drive? We don't drive together. Right.

Speaker A: Yeah. Talk about an awkward one on one meeting.

Speaker B: Awkward. Yeah. So no, there's not a really hard and fast rule. There's some obvious principles. Like, keep in mind that your definition of privacy may not be the same as the definition of the employee. So Christy and I, my wife and I, we have very, very different definitions of privacy. Um, I can sit in a restaurant with people all around me and I can talk about the most sensitive stuff to her. And she is appalled. She just kind of can't do it. She freaks out. She, on the other hand, she can't talk to me about anything personal when there's anybody in the room practically. So, you know, she and I have very different sort of boundaries around privacy. So one of the bottom lines here is, you know, if you're kind of working in the cubicle world, you're not going to sit and try to have a one on one with somebody in their cubicle. You know, you're going to look for a conference room. Um, you're going to find a corner in the cafeteria, you're going to go down to the Starbucks and find a place that feels comfortable for the both of you, that feels private even though you're in a public space. So just feel that out with the other person and, and decide your office is fine. Um, there's a little bit of talk about, well, that's not neutral and that feels power. Differentially, your office is fine. Especially if you have a place to sit in your office that's not with a big desk between you and the other person. If you can sit to the side around a little table or something, or pull up a chair next to that person.

Speaker A: So I have a buddy and I was talking with her kind of just about 1 on ones and the importance of having them. And she really got it. But her concern was like, Look, I manage 25 people. 25 people. If I, if I had a weekly one on one, I would be doing nothing else than having one on one meetings.

Speaker B: Even if it a monthly one on one, that would be too much.

Speaker A: Yeah. So

Speaker B: 25 people.

Speaker A: Now, on the other hand, I've managed a team of four people before and that was pretty, I could have a one on one, you know, every other week and it was just fine. So is there a sweet spot with m. How often you should be having one on ones? And what if you just manage too many people that it's not possible to have one on ones? Um, you know, often.

Speaker B: Yeah, this question comes up all the time. And so again, let's differentiate between different kinds of conversations. If you're having, quote, one on one conversations with your employees almost daily just because you have to do that to do your job, and you're doing it because you're being relational and checking in, hey, how's your weekend? I mean, keep doing all that. That's not what we're talking. Those, those touch ins or, you know, whatever, those just happen. If you're doing a weekly, um, sort of, let's look at your tasks, let's look at the week ahead. For example, let's kind of outline what we're doing. Keep doing that. That's not. This, this is a little fuzzy, but roughly we're talking about the kind of conversation that should happen about once a month. Okay. So if you're looking for a sweet spot now, I've, I've worked with plenty of managers who are doing this kind of, of thing, um, every other week and it seems to be working.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And I've worked with managers who are doing this weekly. I've also, though, twice now in the last couple years have had employees come to me and say, would you please tell my manager to stop meeting with me every week.

Speaker A: I got things to do. I've heard this before. It's like they ran out of things to talk about four weeks ago. It's like, well, yeah, you haven't every week. That can be

Speaker B: difficult. These are, these are deeper down. Right. These are like asking for feedback and checking in on their career path and all these things. Every week feels like you're, you're ringing the washcloth dry and it's already dry, you're still wringing it. Right. So that was a dumb analogy, but it kind of worked for me. So, um, yeah, monthly is the sweet spot. And now we get into numbers. All right, So I got

Speaker A: 25 people.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's not going to happen. So I've got eight. Let's say I have eight employees. Um, monthly works pretty well. That's, to me, that's the sweet spot. When, if I had to kind of, of define the exact right amount A, uh, number of employees and for a monthly conversation, I would say about eight. That's just about right. What that says is

Speaker A: like more than eight people would be too much to have it monthly is what you're saying.

Speaker B: I would say we're getting close to that. I would say that means that twice a week I'm having this important one on one conversation. Now if I can do three of those a week, then I can pump that up to 12 and that could work. I've seen managers who've done it it three times a week, they have a one on one, they're touching bases. Keep in mind the time you're taking there pays itself back. Higher morale, more engaged employees, better relationships, more trust, you know, it pays itself back. So three 45 minute conversations a week does not seem like too much to me.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's worth what the benefits are at the

Speaker B: end of the day. Absolutely. So 8 to 10, 12 monthly. You know, again, this is dependent on how much of a quote, working manager are you? Are you, are you unfortunately, that manager who was promoted and you still have to do everything you were doing before and now you have to manage people because your boss assumes that it doesn't take any time to manage people. It's going to be really hard for you to find these three 45 minute chunks. Maybe. Hopefully that's not the situation you're in. Hopefully you have some time and some margins in your management life to be able to spend time with your people. So long answer short, eight to 12 people, depending on your circumstances is about right. When you start getting into 15, 16, 20 people, you're going to have to have a different game plan. You're going to have to have a one on one every six weeks. You're going to have to have a one on one every other month. You're just going to have to stretch it out. But once you start stretching and you're all the way up to now quarterly, it just starts to take on a different feel.

Speaker A: Right. Uh,

Speaker B: starts to feel a little bit more formal.

Speaker A: Right. It's more of like an evaluation almost quarterly. Quarterly evaluation. But okay, so I mean, what do I tell my friend? Like, how do you like it if she were to do it? You know, if she were to do a few a week still, every employee would only be met with more or less once a quarter.

Speaker B: Yeah, she's probably at that.

Speaker A: Nothing to do about that at this point.

Speaker B: If she has time for let's say three a week,

Speaker A: right.

Speaker B: You know, then that's 12 people a month. So she could do every other month. Okay. She'd be close to the every other month mark on that. Okay. If she can't, if she has to stretch it out, do it. I mean, what we're, what we're saying to managers is if, even if you have to go to quarterly, if you're going to do that, make them count, make them rich, make them, you know, find a spot where there's, you know, have a cup of coffee or whatever. You know, make it, uh, feel like we're going to spend, spend some time together. Maybe spend an hour, an hour and a half with the person. Because it's, it's only once a quarter. Mhm. You know, dig in, ask, ask several questions. Make sure you preload those questions so they have time to think about it. Don't make it evaluative. Don't make that a meeting where you're, you know, critiquing their performance

Speaker A: unless it's evaluative about you as a manager.

Speaker B: That's what I mean. Yeah. If it's, if it's you critiquing the employee and you're only meeting month or quarter quarterly, they're going to have this feeling pretty soon of oh, it's the principal's office once a quarter. And that's going to destroy the whole spirit of what you're trying to do here.

Speaker A: So obviously we don't have any hard or set number as far as, you know, how long each one on one should be. Yeah. But what is obviously too short and what is obviously too long of a one on one?

Speaker B: How about eight minutes?

Speaker A: Eight minutes? Okay, maybe nine.

Speaker B: Go up to at least 10 minutes, right? Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, setting aside 30 minutes, 45 feels safe to me that, that feels about right. And you're going to know your people, you're going to know your time limits, you're going to be able to, you know, set this up, uh, based on what works for everybody. But I think if you're trying to do, you know, what I've heard sometimes these 15 minute meetings, how do you check in and ask the question and give them time. And by the way, what we haven't talked about yet is they might come with their own agenda. I hope they do. Right. I mean, you make them know, help them know that these one on ones are for them. They might come with their own topics and their own questions. And so this 15 minute thing is going to feel rushed and it's not going to feel very open or warm or it's going to feel like you're checking a box. So I think building in 45 minutes, an hour, 30 minutes. Again, you're going to have to base that on your experience and your situation.

Speaker A: Now we're starting to get a little short on time here.

Speaker B: How much time do we have left?

Speaker A: Um, we should probably wrap up here in the next five minutes or so. We're moving in on an hour. I have one more question though. Having one on ones is not necessarily a norm in all workplaces and it may not be a norm in your workplace. That doesn't mean it can't be a norm for your specific team that you manage. Mhm. My question to you is, you're a manager and you haven't had, you haven't been doing one on one meetings. You would like to start doing them in the format as we described here. How do you roll that out to the team without making it seem weird? Because it would be weird if all of a sudden my manager says, hey, I want to have a one on one with you.

Speaker B: What I do,

Speaker A: it's like, okay, bad news is coming my way.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: What's just the best way to roll this out to your team to make it seem authentic and make it, it clear that you're doing this so you can help them?

Speaker B: Yeah, it's great. What you don't want to do, and it's exactly what you said, is just start setting them up. Because you're right, people are going to make up all sorts of crazy stories about what this is about. Right. So yeah, you sit down with your group and you just say, hey, here's what I want to start doing. There's um, lots of reasons. Um, I have questions for you guys. I want to get to know your world. I want to be helpful to you. I want to know where I can advocate, advocate for you. Um, it's, I think it's gonna be really good for us to connect on a regular basis. Um, this is the time for you as well to come and bring your questions or your thoughts or your ideas. It's kind of a, it's a summit, it's a, it's casual. Um, there's not a form. We're not keeping track, we're not making minutes, you're not signing a form. This is us building, ah, relationship checking in. So I think the word authentic is. That was the answer. Right? Explain really what this is about. Get them on board, help them understand. Um, um, now you're going to have some folks possibly who are going to be resistant. Right? Well, I don't really want to do this and I don't need it and I just would rather do my job. And I know this sounds a little tricky, but I would recommend that you don't let those folks off the hook. That you kind of prove to them through the practice that it's valuable and that it's going to, in the long run, ah, um, be a plus for the team as opposed to a minus.

Speaker A: Yeah. And my thought here is really just harping on authentically explaining why you've decided to do this. Right. The why. The why. The why. I want to see you succeed. I want to see us succeed as a unit. And I've realized that this has been one of the missing pieces that I haven't been delivering on.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker A: We start now.

Speaker B: Yep. Can I, can. Can I finish with a couple quick thoughts about one on ones? I know we're out of time.

Speaker A: I suppose that's all. Right. Right.

Speaker B: Thank you. Um, great opportunity to, uh, compliment and uh, show some appreciation. Just think about that before you go into the one on ones. What is some things that have happened this month or what are some things about this person's kind of their character that tends to show up and helps us out as a team that I can point out? Um, what have they noticed that other team members have contributed? It's another great thing. You can do it one on ones.

Speaker A: What have they noticed that other team members,

Speaker B: meaning tell, tell on your colleagues. What, what cool things have you seen? Your employees, your, your, your colleagues? Do you know what, what, what am I missing as a manager in terms of opportunities to reward and recognize and show appreciation?

Speaker A: What does that do for you?

Speaker B: For me

Speaker A: or for them?

Speaker B: Well, for all of us. It actually starts to build this culture, uh, of, um, noticing the good. Right. And it also helps me have eyes, you know, in the back of my head. Right. I have, I have other people now that are, you know, looking around and looking for wins and vict. And that helps me now to have more opportunities for praise and recognition. You know, use this time to ask the employee to help you problem solve. You know, feel free to bring your problems. I don't mean your personal problems. Right. But you know, bring your work related challenges that you feel comfortable sharing to these, to your people and ask for their opinions. I mean, again, sky's the limit. There's so many wins and there's so many pluses from having these meetings. Meetings.

Speaker A: I love it. I love it. This is good stuff, man. Uh,

Speaker B: we have a gift.

Speaker A: We have a gift. We

Speaker B: have a gift.

Speaker A: Oh, okay.

Speaker B: So I didn't check with Ethan about this, so he might cut this later. But um, I actually have a digital. A digital. What's the word? A digital.

Speaker A: A digital

Speaker B: book.

Speaker A: Book

Speaker B: called 500 Great.

Speaker A: 350. There's 350.

Speaker B: Are you looking at what I'm looking

Speaker A: at? I know what you're talking about. See

Speaker B: M. My screen just went blank. I literally just lost power and I just made it up.

Speaker A: We still have a gift. It's just not as big as we would like it to be. I

Speaker B: tend to

Speaker A: 350great one on one question.

Speaker B: 500 would be better.

Speaker A: 500 would be better. But you have to come up with the other, you know, 250,

Speaker B: 150,

Speaker A: 150

Speaker B: math. All right, so in any event, 350 great one on one questions, if you email us at,

Speaker A: contact ashconsulting.com Again, that's contactnashconsulting.com

Speaker B: we will send you free of charge this digital book called 5000 Great One on One Questions.

Speaker A: No, it's a really good resource.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker A: So again, email me, contact ashconsulting.com we'll send that book right to you.

Speaker B: And if you have questions that you would like us, uh, to answer or you have topics you would be interested in us exploring, that's another reason to use that email. Mm, mhm.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Anything else?

Speaker B: No, I. This has been great, Ethan. Thanks for talking through these one on ones. I hope folks listening out there got something out of this.

Speaker A: I do too. All right, ciao folks. Hey folks, one last quick word here. This is Ethan. By the way, if you've found value from listening to this podcast and you'd like to support us, there are a few things you could do. First, you could go to Apple Podcasts or Stitcher and leave us a review. Leaving us a review helps other people find the show. You could also share these podcast episodes on your social media pages. You could blog about them, you could talk about them on your own podcast, or just tell all your friends and colleagues about it. Whatever you can do to help support us. We do appreciate it, really. All right, bye.