Remote Contact Center Engagement: Beating the Industry by 11 Points and Crawling with AI

Narrator: Welcome to the Fast Leader show. Hosted by leadership impact architect Jim Rembach. This is where leaders pursue results with clarity and momentum. The podcast challenges leadership, innovation and creativity through the lens of results that matter. Each episode delivers insight that improves performance, strengthens execution and helps leaders move onward and upward faster.

Jim Rembach: All right, fast leader Legion, get ready for, well I should say hold on to the reins. So we don't want you to get bucked off the camel on this one because, because I have somebody that has a lot of energy and very passionate about the work that he is being able, uh, to I guess you'd say, serve others with. And we'll talk about that in a second. Um, his name is Jason Mercer Pottinger, but we call him jmp. He is the senior Director of Customer Care of the Americas Advantiv, uh, leading a fully remote patient centric operation across multi country teams. A visionary CX leader, he fuses discipline execution with uh, innovation to scale empathy and outcomes. At Vantiv, he has strengthened telehealth and customer experience while building culture aligned standards that deliver consistent support at scale. As a recognized CX influencer, he champions measurable impact for patients and customers. Under his leadership, teams support more than 100,000 patients. These efforts underscore a continuous pursuit to improve the lives of patients and customers through empathetic and effective support solutions, turning bold vision into excellence. So recently JMP and his, his team of leaders received uh, some results in regards to how they are making an impact from an employee experience perspective. And the results came back and in here they actually have world class manager effectiveness which is 11 points above the industry average or industry norm safety and quality scores, uh, extremely high scores. And the team believes the department operates with integrity and prioritizes patient safety, um, and then mission connectiveness. Employees feel deeply connected to the company's purpose and we'll talk about that a little bit more. Um, and focus. They focus on extending, extending lives, uh, and expanding possibilities. And each team prioritizes the patient and their actions and then also strong team cohesion. So jmp, are you ready to help us get over the hump?

Jason Mercer Pottinger: I am. Jim, thank you for, thank you for allowing me to come and share my story with you today. I'm excited. Yeah, let's start.

Jim Rembach: Well and it is an exciting story because oftentimes we hear things associated with the difficulties and the shortcomings and sometimes I think a lot of that is marketing hype, um, kind of like they do on the news, right? Um, teasers to try to get you to really look at the next thing. But you've got a positive story in a lot of different ways. Um, and so you lead a large, fully remote customer care operation. And when you look across those teams and countries, what do you believe has mattered most in creating consistent leadership and customer experience at scale?

Jason Mercer Pottinger: I think it all comes down to the type of leaders and the way in which we're engaging with our people. So we have a very strong, um, servant leadership methodology here at vantiv. Whereas within my group, I'm pretty much here to serve our teams, to serve our customers, to serve our patients. So that methodology comes all the way down from the top, all the way through our organization, and all the way back up again. We also empower our leaders, um, that they are many CEOs of their organization, so they're able to make a lot more, um, autonomy around how they actually deal with issues that come up. Right. Because dialysis is a very, is a very complex, um, chronic condition to be managing in the home. And so things do happen and we empower our teams to make the right decision at the right time to ensure that the patient feels supported, um, whilst they're at home dealing with this chronic condition. So I think that's a big positive. We also ensure that our leaders understand that, um, it's not about them, it's about their teams and ensuring that their teams are being set up for success on when they're sort of interacting with their customers and patients. Um, and then what does that mean? It's connecting them back to the mothership. Right. What's the overarching corporate, um, initiatives that we're trying to drive and how do they, and how do they feed into that? Right. Extending lives, expanding possibilities. Um, it links all the way back from our CEO all the way down to folks who are, uh, answering the phone and who are delivering the products and delivering care to our patients.

Jim Rembach: Well, and I think that's, you know, and we didn't go into a whole lot of detail and maybe we should. Because you're in a, uh, industry, uh, in regards to. Well, and I'll let you explain it, but it's received a lot of, uh, attention lately because of the business opportunity that exists with it, as well as, um, some of the innovations that are associated. So maybe you should explain a little bit the business that vantv is in.

Jason Mercer Pottinger: I'll explain. However, I will just caveat that I'm not a clinician, so I'm a layperson. So I'll explain it from my lens. Right. With invantive. So we are a dialysis provider, although we do also do other organ therapies as well. But we are supporting predominantly patients who are either in center, in an ICU or at home on some form of dialysis treatment to help with their chronic, um, um, ckd, which is their chronic kidney disease.

Jim Rembach: Okay. So when we start talking about that, and for those who have not gone through that experience, you know, we hear all these types of stories about people, you know, sitting in a clinic for half a day, uh, and having to do that a couple times a week, um, you know, or sometimes we haven't gotten exposure into it all. And I think Vantiv m serves the need, uh, uh, in some very unique ways and maybe you can hit on that a little bit.

Jason Mercer Pottinger: Yeah, so we, so we. So the traditional forms of dialysis, as you said said, right. Going into a center a few times a week and sitting there for half a day. So that, that happens and we absolutely support that. We also provide support to patients who are at home on dialysis. So this is where it's uh, called peritoneal dialysis. And like I said, I'm not a clinician, so I'm not going to get into the whys and wherefores of the treatment. But this is where a patient, uh, is using one of our devices to dialyse overnight. And so there is another level of support needed for those patients. And that's where my teams come in. Right. So as well as ensuring that the patient has all the stuff they need to do the dialysis at home, is when something goes wrong, that they have somebody there, a human, that can deal with their issue in the middle of the night, make them feel comfortable. They will then to go back to sleep, continue with their dialysis and feel supported at home when they are at their most vulnerable, when they're calling in the middle of the night, something's gone wrong, an alarm's happening and they need to get hold of somebody quickly or we're there to ensure that that Support is there 24 hours, seven days a week, 365, um, days a year.

Jim Rembach: Well, and the organization is a global organization.

Jason Mercer Pottinger: I mean we're talking about, we're a global organization. My remit is the Americas. But we also support patients outside of our region as well who are needing support outside of typical business hours.

Jim Rembach: So I mean, so we talk about fully remote and you talk about multi region. So I think your region, if you, if, um, maybe everybody can kind of get some visibility into it, extends all the way from Canada, you know, down to Brazil. Is that correct?

Jason Mercer Pottinger: Correct? It is correct, yes. Yeah, yeah. So we have, we have five main markets here in the Americas that we're supporting, as well as in distributor models for other countries where we don't have direct presence. But yeah, pretty much we're supporting across the whole of the Americas, um, north and south continents. Yeah.

Jim Rembach: And all your leaders are fully remote?

Jason Mercer Pottinger: Fully remote. These are, uh, so we have hybrid teams. Some teams are 100% remote. Others have a mixture of in office and at home. And, um, we started pushing folks home even before COVID So it wasn't just as part of COVID which a lot of organizations did. We were moving people home because of the nature of the role. If you're in the middle of the night, you really don't want people traveling into a facility. It makes a lot of sense. And people are way more productive at home. Right. Let's be honest. And so it's a win win for us. It's a win win for the patients and it's, um, a for the individual because they have a lot more flexibility over the hours that they work.

Jim Rembach: I think that also adds to the uniqueness of what we're talking about here because so many organizations struggle with a lot of the different factors that you have been able to create some success with this. For example, manager effectiveness scores are exceptionally high. Right. So with leaders stated so strongly on the factors in regards to respect, care and recognition, what do you think that tells you, uh, as far as what your frontline teams are experiencing from remote leaders spread across multi countries?

Jason Mercer Pottinger: Well, first of all, I think that shows that they feel connected. So even though they are remote, we have ensured that there are, uh, support mechanisms in place to support them fully at home. We also, I think when you have teams that are fully remote, you need to ensure that you have managers who are over communicating. They need to feel connected back to the organization. So I think that's working. They feel they get in the right level of communication and also, uh, they are making a difference. So I think that adds. When you, when you look at it, when you look at it, you know how we are, uh, interacting with patients, we are scoring very highly on putting the patient first, as you would expect in our organization. So if it takes an hour to deal with a patient's interaction, it takes an hour. You want to make sure the patient never has to call us back. So, um, we take a lot more time. And so some of the traditional metrics that you would have in place in a call center or contact center, we sort of like strip back to Say it's all about the quality of the service and ensuring that the patient feels that they have the time to talk through any of the issues that are impacting them. So when they put the phone down or however they're communicating, they typically don't have to call us back. So we're always checking for next best interaction to ensure that we're second guessing maybe some stuff that could be going on that the patient hadn't even thought about as well as then when we're dealing with our clinics as well. Right. So we wrap all this together in putting the patient first. And I think that kind of methodology has helped us with engagement because folks aren't being pressurized to get off the phone, get onto the next call. They can take a bit more time to ensure the patients are getting the support that they need so they can walk away at the end of the day going, I made a difference today.

Jim Rembach: Well, you also have, as I said, uh, within the introduction, you know, you're an influencer, you talk with a lot of leaders and your peers. And so I, I mean, for me, if I was one of your peers, I would, you know, first of all be somewhat envious in regards to the work that you're doing, because it does drive, you know, commitment, it drives purpose. It transcends a lot of the things that most have to deal with. So if I don't have such a strong purpose, if I don't have, I'm literally saving, the saving of lives, you know, are at stake here. Uh, I'm sitting here and I have something that's a little bit more transactional and what would I have to do to be able to generate that type of commitment when I don't have that overriding mission and purpose?

Jason Mercer Pottinger: I think you need to have a vision that everybody can connect to. It needs to be something that connects everybody. Regardless of where they sit within the organization, they understand how what they do day to day is impacting the mission and vision of the organization and is making it real. I think that's the, you know, we're not sat with our patients in their home. They're calling us. Right. These patients are patients that, you know, are being to us by our customers. Right. So we, so we have to make sure that people understand, okay, how are we supporting them, what are we doing and what does it mean to the overall mission and vision of the organization? I think is if you, if you're able to articulate that right that way down into your contact centers. So every day your teams come in and they Fully understand sort of how they are contributing to that. Guess what? You're going to have very, you're going to have a great environment to work in and that's going to. Then, um, um, you're going to see it in the level of service that you're providing to your customers, regardless of whether it's healthcare or whether you're providing pens and paper. Right. I think it comes from the type of leadership, the level of engagement and ensuring that that mission and vision mean something to those folks on the front line.

Jim Rembach: I think that's a really important point because, uh, you know, if we look at a lot of the research, uh, basically the vast majority of employees that are in contact centers are part of what they refer to as the why generation. Why? Yeah, why are we doing that? Uh, making it front and center and transparent. Probably, uh, needs to be very, very high up on your

Narrator: purpose.

Jim Rembach: Um, um, planning, execution, um, scale and uh, that that never ends.

Jason Mercer Pottinger: I would also add, Jim, that I, I also, I also think as well, it's, it's having an environment where it's okay to fail. Right. You can get it wrong and it's okay. And uh, psychologically people feel safe in that environment to raise issues because this is health care. And, and we want to make sure that, you know, there are things that happen, right? Let's, let's understand those things that happen. Let's learn from them. And I've seen examples where in that kind of environment we've actually then come across best practices and then able to roll it across the region. So it could be somebody in Brazil who has no understanding of sort of how we, how we are managing patients here in the United States. But actually they see that that one moment where they actually identified something has had a major impact across our, uh, whole patient population across the region. That it's that kind of psychological safety that we've embedded into our contact centers where it doesn't matter where you sit, if you see something, you say something, guess what? If it's a best practice, we roll it out across the rest of the region because it's going to add value to our patients wherever they are based.

Jim Rembach: Now you talked about the alignment and a connection and you talked about servant leadership. Uh, I mean your CEO for your organization has been very vocal in regards to servant leadership. Kind of share that a little bit with us.

Jason Mercer Pottinger: Yeah. So, you know, Chris came in and it was one of the. One. I remember one of the first conversations, um, he had with us as an organization was around servant leadership, how he is Here to ensure that we're being served, our customers are being served and our patients are being served. And that ethos has gone across the organization. And when you're actually in a contact center, leadership makes a lot of sense, right? That's what we do every single day. When you start to articulate it, you put it into practice and um, people feel that it's a safe environment and they understand that there's no levels. Right. You know, my doors is open is the next person. Because we're all here to do the right thing for our teams, for our customers and for our patients. And whilst it sounds very, uh, simplistic, um, it does add a lot of value when you're engaging with people because they can see what they're doing, the benefit it's having and how they. Like I said, it's linked them all back to the organization. And it has enabled for levels within an organization to feel way more flatter because there are no egos, right. We're all here to serve our teams, to serve our customers, to serve our patients. And that changes. Right? So you have internal customers, external customers. The uh, servant leadership methodology doesn't change regardless of who your customers are.

Jim Rembach: Now you talk about when he came in and all that, and I think that's an important note because when you start looking at what is written about and what it gets, visibility. People talk about transformation. I jokingly say, I think everybody's going through some type of transformation. I mean AI is, AI is forcing a, uh, transformation on all of us. I mean, so there's always transformation that is, is. It's just part of everyday life right now. So Vantiv has not been vantive for a very long time. And I think it's important that you share something about the legacy and how uh, this is also this transformation by going to a, you know, it's a different brand of Vantiv and what that means for you as a leader.

Jason Mercer Pottinger: So, so yeah, we were, we became a separate company um, last year, sort of February, at the end of January, February last year and 2024. And during that time it has enabled us to focus on delivering products and services to a patient group where there hasn't been a lot of innovation. Right. So we've been able to not innovate not only the products and services, but also how we deliver those services.

Narrator: Right.

Jason Mercer Pottinger: Which has enabled us to uh, bring to look at more of the digitalization of these services that you need to effectively support a patient remotely on dialysis. So I think that's enabled us to look at it very differently when we. Then it's enabled us to introduce automation where automation makes sense. And I add this because I see it so much through some of the work that I'm doing with the ccaia, which is the Contact Center AI Association. Um, and you know, I see where organizations have just got this scattergun approach to bringing in these AI tools, not really understanding the value that they're gonna, uh, that they're gonna drive. We've taken a more crawl, walk, run approach. Where is it going to add the most value to the patient journey? Where's it going to add the most value to our agents to ensure then that the service they're delivering is adding more value? So we've been extremely conservative in how we bring in AI into our contact centers, um, and ensuring that it's being delivered in a very ethical way, because these are patients at the end of the day. And we need to ensure that the clinician and the human are kept in the loop and at all times. So instead of removing them, what we've done is in parts of our process, actually bring them up further to the, to the contact point so the AI is able to pick up some of the more transactional stuff. And then when we need a human that actually brought further up into the interaction to ensure that the patient isn't. To have them go through unnecessary hurdles to get to speak to somebody as quickly as possible. So we've sort of like think we've, we've ensured that at the very heart of everything we do is a patient, but also ensuring that the, if they need to speak to a human or they, they get that humanized contact as quickly as possible in that interaction.

Jim Rembach: Well, and I think you kind of just uh, described what everybody refers to as AI augmentation.

Jason Mercer Pottinger: Uh, yes. Yeah.

Jim Rembach: And I think that's when you start looking at, you know, the type of business, the human, uh, elements that are involved with it both internally and externally. Um, that, I mean, that approach, needless to say, is going to more, uh, warrant and give you insight into why you're receiving some of the performance numbers that you're receiving. So, and it's public knowledge. So Vantiv, uh, was part of Baxter or was Baxter. Uh, and now you have this separate. Yes, that's when you say Chris came in. That's where how all of that, uh, was put into place. Um, now when you, when you start looking at having performance, um, in regards to that, you know, engagement side and all of that is, you know, some people would sit there and say, okay, now we can actually leverage this as an opportunity to be able to use it as a lever for some of our, you know, growth, you know, um, planning, um, or they could say, hey, we need to make sure that we preserve and sustain all of this. And that should be the only thing that we're focusing in on. Kind of give us a little bit of a lens into how you can or what you're doing from a strategy perspective.

Jason Mercer Pottinger: So from a strategy perspective, um, we are ensuring that as we bring in new technologies that, like I said, they'll be in place where they're going to add the most value. We're also understanding, okay, how do we ensure that our leaders and leaders of the future have the necessary skills to handle what's happening from a technology perspective? Personally, I've been in frontline operations for over 30 years, and I've seen in the last five to six years the most change ever in my whole career. And that is going to continue. So we need to make sure that our current leaders and leaders of the future have this AI acumen in place so they understand what these tools can deliver, not be afraid of these tools, actually embrace them and ensure that when they're having, uh, conversations with people, especially in our IT departments, right, where they are very familiar with these tools, we go in, we understand what we need, and we actually have a seat at the table and go, right, okay, that tool. Yep, we absolutely get it. That's going to add a lot of value. This tool, not so much. Not really something that we need. And that's a big piece of this is how do we make sure we're setting, uh, our leaders of the future and the landscape is going to look very different, Jim, from where it is today.

Jim Rembach: Yeah, I, you know, it's kind of like I mentioned before, the forced transformation. I mean, you're gonna have to transform one way or the other. Other way. You know, you either lead or you get. I mean, it's not. It's not what.

Jason Mercer Pottinger: I don't want to be a dinosaur that's looking at the firework display going, oh, that looks good. But actually it's a meteorite that's going to come to take us out. I want to be. I want to be fully aware of what's happening and make sure that we are, uh, ethically using this technology where it's going to add the most value. We're healthcare. And so that comes with, um, a lot of, um, responsibility in how we ensure that our patients are being supported. And so the technology has to be an enabler and not just putting it in for the sake of just ticking a box and saying, hey, I've got an AI tool in place. Right?

Jim Rembach: Most definitely. Okay. So strong team cohesion creates momentum. We're talking about uh, what a lot of people will refer to as velocity. Things and things associated with um, I guess you'd say trying to keep up with that whole um, rapid change element. So what will it take to help? Constant, uh, contact center leaders to keep improving instead of unintentionally plateauing. As in regards to these performance areas that you've had experiences in, I think,

Jason Mercer Pottinger: I think you can never rest on your laurels. So, okay, that's a set of results that we have. They're great. Okay. You don't just put your feet up and go, okay, so you got it. You got to understand, okay, what are some of the behaviors that you need to keep amplifying within the organization? What are some of the areas that, okay, maybe those are more anchor points when we look at some of the different criteria and go, right, okay, can we fix it? Right. Uh, is this actually within our scope? Because what I have seen as well with some of these employee surveys, you can spend a lot of time focusing in on something but actually have very little impact. So it's like ensuring that when you're working with your teams you understand, okay, is this something that we physically own and we can fix? Okay, let's try and fix it if we can. Or is it more around the communication? Right. Is there misses in how we are communicating with our folks? And that's why we have these sort of like deltas. But it's continue to amplify, understand what those behaviors ah, are and make sure those are behaviors that we are constantly um, amplifying across our organization whenever we are engaging with our teams and also having that mechanism for listening. It isn't just top down, it's bottoms up. And a lot of the stuff that we've done with you, Jim, is ensuring that we have tools where we can listen effectively. Because not everybody feels that they have, they can, they can raise their hand and speak. So we've introduced other tools that they can use through, you know, more community wide tools where we join leaders together or leaders of the future together so where they can share ideas and they can actually see that, you know what, it's okay to say, this isn't working. Someone's going to listen, someone's going to do something with it, it and try and fix it. So we're using, we're using different ways of communicating Bearing in mind we have different generations now in the workplace where they want to use more online tools, they want to use more sophistication, more AI in their day to day activities, that's okay. How do we have those available, um, for the different generations that we now have in the workplace? So we're constantly looking at what makes sense for our teams and amplifying those behaviors where we know we're really strong there, but we can't rest on our laurels when it comes to the next round of results. They may not be so good. So let's ensure that we can keep those behaviors moving forward.

Jim Rembach: So thinking about, you know, what you were referring to, and we'll get to this in a second. In regards to the um, um, the uh, AI association, um, that's, that's coming up. But with those conversations that you've had with a lot of your peers and you're looking at the industry because I know you do a lot of that in regards to, uh, you know, seeing what's getting attention out there, um, as contact centers scale and expectations continue to rise. Because that's never, that's never going to change. What do leaders need most in your, what comes to mind when you think of that and then why?

Jason Mercer Pottinger: I. Well, I've already touched on it. There's AI acumen. They need to understand these tools and what they're actually going to deliver. I think they also need to feel comfortable in pushing back at their leaders to say, no, this is not going to work. Right. So it's around the ROI and they understand what that ROI is. I think also there's a piece around understanding that AI is not going to be a replacement for humans. So ensuring that they have customer journeys that clearly articulate when a human is needed and ensure that human remains in the loop at all time. I don't think we're at the point where we can just turn on these AI tools and walk away. They're going to be constant learning as the, as they become more mature and understanding. Okay, this works now, maybe doesn't work tomorrow, and this is what we need in the future. But that human in the loop has to remain there. And I think that's probably some of the gaps that we have is that they've. A lot of folks I've seen in other industries, they've jumped on the AI bandwagon and then realized actually they're not delivering anything. And so they're having to have some very difficult conversations with their C suite who have invested in these tools and they're not seeing roi. That's why I believe the crawl, walk, run approach makes a lot of sense because if you crawl, you can pull it back in any time and you're not as heavily exposed as if you go with a huge big bang and you're running at 100 miles an hour. Something happens. And let's be honest, there's a lot of test cases out there now where companies have fallen down into this trap. Right. And it's like, it's not so easy then to pull it back. But I would definitely Recommend Core Walk 1. Making sure your leaders understand what AI is, what's it going to deliver, where it's going to deliver, and where the human needs to remain in the loop.

Jim Rembach: I think you bring up a really interesting point and pressure. Right. You know, you know, are sitting there and they're getting and absorbing a lot of this. Let's just say what it is. It's, it's marketing hype. You know, this is what these things can do. And the fact is that's not the way it works. Uh, and I think the, someone said the word for 2025. It'll be interesting to see what it is for 2026. But the word for 2025 was a I slop.

Jason Mercer Pottinger: Yes. Yeah, yeah.

Jim Rembach: And I think you're, we're starting to see some changes. Like recently I just read something about anthropic coming out with a medical, um, you know, element, uh, to a search engine so people can actually, you know, do some of their own research, uh, in regards to things that they're dealing with. And so I think we're starting to see more of this understanding that general or gen, you know, know, Genetic Genentech, Genetech, um, general AI is not going to be able to help your business. Um, it's going to put you in that hole that you're talking about. So I think that's a good place for us to talk about you serving and being announced as the president of the Phoenix chapter of the Contact Center AI Association. Uh, tell us a little bit more about that group and, and what you feel its purpose is and the role you'll play.

Jason Mercer Pottinger: Yeah, so I've been, I've been involved with the association now, um, since April in 2024. What, what I'm extremely interested in is their approach. So it isn't, it isn't your typical group where they bring a lot of leaders together and then they get in a lot of vendors and try to sell them stuff. There's actually very little vendors that are actually involved. It's all practitioners and so we're able to share best practices in a very safe environment. We're also able to. I actually sit as a member of the Education Committee, um, ccaia. So I'm able to help with some of the healthcare pieces. Right. Where does it make sense in healthcare? Where does it not make sense in healthcare? So you have certain leaders who are brought in for their expertise in certain industries also understanding that it isn't a one size fits all. And then the education committee then drives the chapters when they bring in groups of people, typically twice a year in a chapter where they meet, they get the opportunity to deep dive into some uh, into some of these items and also to have more legal representation around. Okay, so what are some of the companies that are doing that maybe they shouldn't have done? And so other companies then in other industries can learn from that. So it's a very different approach to some of the other sort of like um, groups that I'm members of where it's typically just a big sell. It's not, it's way more specific around to how is AI being used, where is it adding value, where it's not being value and what you need to be aware of from a legal perspective if you're considering to doing this, say as an example and then bring it back to the chapter. So yeah, I'm very proud to be the new, the president of our newest chapter which is um, in Phoenix, Arizona which is, you know, I'm an Arizonian, believe it or not, with his accent. Um, and this, and this chapter is going to be heavily focused on healthcare. So we're going, it's going to be going to be focused on how AI can be used in an ethical environment as healthcare and where it can add value. Because this is going to be the next explosion. Healthcare probably been behind other industries in AI adoption for a whole host of reasons. Right. And so as this starts to take off and um, we see new people moving into this space to disrupt it. Let's ensure that we're keeping the patient in the loop, our clinics in the loop or the folks that really add value and it's the ethical adoption of AI within the healthcare arena. Personally, I think it's going to add a ton of value when you think about remote patient m. Uh monitoring and how if you keep patients at home, guess what, they're going to have a better outcome. So how do we ensure that we have tools in place that you can monitor patients effectively and how AI can drive some of that monitoring, how um, positive our healthcare outcomes. Like I said, I'm not a clinician, but I see it's going to have a huge explosion over the next two to three years. The association is going to ensure through the Phoenix Chapter that we are supporting customers in the healthcare contact center arena. On okay, what tools make sense, what tools do not make sense, and what are some of the pitfalls as you start on your AI journey?

Jim Rembach: So you talk about crawl, walk, run.

Jason Mercer Pottinger: Yes.

Jim Rembach: And there's really. If we were to think about what we all learned in statistical class, talking about the bell curve and we have the laggards and then we have the people who are out in front and then we have this big group in the middle. So would you say that there's pros and cons to not moving as well as moving too fast? And where do you kind of see that to make sure that you don't fall into the not moving fast enough?

Jason Mercer Pottinger: Uh, so I think you have to start with what are you trying to achieve? What's the business problem that you think AI is going to be able to solve? I think if you understand that and you can articulate that, then at least then you have an understanding of what you're looking for. I also think is why you have to challenge yourself. Because what I've seen is AI tools just layered on top of existing workflows. Guess what? If those workflows are broken, they're going to be broken with the AI and then you're going to get hallucinations, you're going to get incorrect outcomes. So I think you have to think about where in your workflow process should the AI be better. Is it deep? Right. So then it's feeding information to your frontline teams so they can offer an enhanced level of care. Or if it is going into your contact centers, you have workflows that are pretty established. You have great knowledge management systems. Right? Because I just know personally, if you don't have great knowledge management, guess what? The whole AI piece will fall apart. So you have all of this identified and you don't have to put it everywhere to start with. Pick a part of the process where it's going to add the m most value, have the return on investment, monitor it, turn it on. That's the core approach. Right? Because then if it doesn't work, you can remodify it, push it somewhere else even. Right. But you haven't lost that investment. I think it's understanding the business problem that you're trying to solve and then understanding, okay, is your business today set up in a way where actually the AI is going to add value because it's okay. I think what we're going to see in the future is AI will change business models. Right. You'll see businesses being re reorganized differently because of how the AI is being used and the information it's pulling. If you think about it saying most business are very vertically driven. The AI doesn't understand any of those vertical pieces. Right. Because trying to get a problem from a whole host of information. And so it's like if you just sprinkle it on the top, it's probably not going to work that well. If you bet it deep, that's going to have the biggest, that's going to have the biggest return.

Jim Rembach: You know, you opened up another, you know, really, um, almost hidden, uh, constraint if you want to call that or opportunity depending on what side of the lens you want to look through is you have, you have scenarios where there's this, you know, executive decision making process and their distance from what actual the day to day activities are the front line. And I even tell frontline leaders, I said sometimes as frontline leaders we think that they know at that high level what's going on and what we're doing. I'm like they don't and they're not supposed to. That's not their job and their role. Right. Ah, uh, and I think the servant leader, ah, focus makes a big difference with that because then the executives are going to say how can I help you to be able to execute? But part, part of going down to the frontline leader, uh, leader component is we're talking about a different skill set. I now need them to, to kind of put on a hat that's going to be more strategic about redoing work versus you know, tactical execution where it's here's tasks, here's work, get it done. That's a different, that's a different skill set.

Jason Mercer Pottinger: Yeah, it is. And we, and that's what, and that's so again we're ensuring that our uh, folks have those skills as, as they start to get repurposed, adding more value. Right. And it's ensuring that we're not going back to ground zero every time. If the AI's done XYZ, we understand what XYZ is and then we start on ABC. Right. So um, we're using our existing resources to pull the patient along the patient journey without going back to square one each time. Right. That's key as well because otherwise patients and customers get very frustrated if they're constantly Having to start from square one every time they start a new interaction with either AI or with a human. So we're ensuring that we have all those patient, patient and customer journeys mapped out so it's very clear on where the AI is going to add value, where the human is going to add value, and there's clear line of sight across the whole end to end piece of the journey. And I think your point around C Suite, I think is contact center leaders. We have to be okay in sitting in front of them and saying, trust us, we've got this. We know where these tools make sense. We know there's a lot of pressure to get these tool leveraged as quickly as possible. But you understand the risks and that's where the CCAI comes in, because they can help you bring those use cases back to your organization and go, look, other organizations have done this. This is what happened. Do you understand? This is the risk that you could be exposing yourselves to. You could still take the risk. But, uh, I think it's giving our contact center leaders enough ammunition to be able to go in and have those tough conversations. Because it is tough at the C Street. I know they're under a lot of pressure to roll these tools out as quickly as possible. But we as contact leaders have a responsibility to ensure that they understand the risks of these and that they trust us, that we're going to do the right thing.

Jim Rembach: I think that's really a critical point. And a critical element is that much like you talk about the servant leader piece, we're serving them with the information they need in order to be able to make the decision that, you know, they're hanging their reputation and their job on.

Jason Mercer Pottinger: They are. And in healthcare, it's a very, it's a regulated industry. You don't get many chances if you get it wrong. So it's like you got to make sure that you feel comfortable saying yes or no and then understand if it's yes, this is where it's going to go and you're able to articulate the roi, right? That you can show the return on the investment that you organize, your organizing is getting from introducing these tools. If you can't, I would say, what's the point? What are you trying to achieve? Right? Because, um, AI for the sake of AI sake is not going to add any value to your organization at all.

Jim Rembach: That's for sure. Okay, jmp, now it's time for the Hump Day Hoedown. Okay, so the Hump Day Hoedown is a part of our show where I give you a few questions and you answer them quickly. Uh, and, you know, it's. It's a chance for us to kind of wrap all this up. Uh, okay, our jmp, are you ready to hoedown?

Jason Mercer Pottinger: I'm ready for the hoedown. Come on, Jim, hit me with it.

Jim Rembach: Here we go. So what do you think is holding you back from being an even better leader today?

Jason Mercer Pottinger: Um, it's probably. It's ensuring that I have a good bench underneath me for our, ah, leaders of the future. So it comes back to AI acumen and ensuring that they have all the necessary skills to get them to where they need to be. Be. Once that's in place, then, then, yep, JMP is in a good place. We're not there yet.

Jim Rembach: Ah, what is the best leadership advice you have ever received?

Jason Mercer Pottinger: Um, best leadership advice is your only as good as what you delivered yesterday. And always be inquisitive. You don't. It's okay to not know the answer. Okay, ask questions.

Jim Rembach: This is my last hump day. Hold on. Question. Imagine you were given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you have been given the opportunity to take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you. But you can't take it all. You can only take one. So what piece of skill or knowledge would you take back with you and why?

Jason Mercer Pottinger: Um, it would be asked, ah, questions. I remember as a guy coming out of university, sitting in meetings, right. With other. With the. So I'm an agent with a contact center leader being something's being rolled out. We didn't really ask enough questions. A CRM rolling out is a great example. I ask more questions. It's okay for someone at a junior level to say, help me understand why we're doing this. And as a leader, we should be opening to listening and be able to articulate why we're doing it. If we can't, then it comes back to what I said. Why? What are we trying to achieve? And so I think it's listening as a leader. But if I took it back, it would be asking more questions.

Jim Rembach: Jmp, how does the fast leader Legion get in touch with you?

Jason Mercer Pottinger: Um, they can find me on LinkedIn. Trust me, there's nobody reminding. So. Jason, Jason Mercer. M. Pottinger. I'm on LinkedIn. They can reach out also through the CCAIA. Um, I think it's www.ccaia.com. they can reach out to me there. Um, and, um, yes, please reach out, connect, and let's keep this conversation moving forward.

Jim Rembach: JMP thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom and helping us all get over the hump.

Jason Mercer Pottinger: Thank you Jim. I appreciate the time.

Jim Rembach: Thank you for joining me on the Fast Leader show today. For recaps, links from every show, special offers, and access to download and subscribe. If you haven't already, head on over to fastleader.net so we can help you move onward and upward faster.

Jason Mercer Pottinger: Sam.