555 Dina Denham Smith - The Creative Leaders Mindset

Dina Denham Smith: Welcome to the Fast Leader Podcast where we uncover the leadership life hacks that help you to experience breakout, performance faster and rocket to success. And now here's your host, customer and employee engagement expert and certified Emotional Intelligence Practitioner Jim Rimbach.

Jim Rembach: Call Center Coach develops and unites the next generation of call center leaders through our elearning and community, individuals gain knowledge and skills in the six core competencies. That is the blueprint that develops high performing call center leaders. Successful supervisors do not just happen. So go to call center coach.com to learn more about enrollment and download your copy of the Supervisor Success Path ebook now. Okay, Fast Leader Legion, you're going to get ready for a good a good conversation because I actually have Dena Denham Smith on the show with me today and Dena was born and raised in Kent, Connecticut along with her one younger brother. Dina's parents were both teachers and she had the singular experience of growing up on an all boys boarding school campus, a setting that prepared her well for the early days of her career where she frequently found herself the only woman in a conference room. As a child, she was fascinated by what made people tick, horse crazy and entrepreneurial. These are three areas that have remained through lines throughout her life. After completing a major in Psychology at Trinity University In San Antonio, Texas, Dina entered a PhD program in in Industrial and Organizational Psychology, but soon realized that this track best prepared her for an academic career. Her motivation then and to this day, was to get the science out of the ivory towers and bring it to the workplace where real people could benefit. She thus left the program after obtaining her Master's degree to go to business school. After attaining her MBA from the University of Michigan, Dina first worked as a management consultant for PwC Pricewater Coopers Aware. She led numerous projects and teams to drive broad strategic change. Subsequently, she was a top executive at a digital marketing agency where she scaled and led a 75 plus person account management and professional services organization. She then served as Executive Vice President of a boutique private equity firm and affiliated operating company which she grew sales 15 times during her tenure. Ten years ago, Dina founded Cognitas, an executive and team coaching firm and dedicated herself to helping others accelerate their success. Success. Her clients include senior leaders and teams at AH Premier brands such as Adobe, PwC, Goldman Sachs, Google and Netflix, high growth tech companies like HubSpot, DocuSign and Stripe and PE back startup startups Shaping the world. She specializes in helping her clients scale their leadership impact in teams in today's fast paced work world. Dina has written over 60 articles for the Harvard Business Review, Fast Company, and Forbes on leadership and career success, and is frequently featured in, in international media outlets, uh, such as the Wall Street Journal, Business Insider, and the BBC. She is also the author of a forthcoming book by Oxford University Press that translates cutting edge science into practical strategies and tools for addressing the uncertainties and increased emotional demands of the modern work world. Dina lives with her husband, two teenagers, and the cutest dog ever in the San Francisco Bay area. In addition to her riding writing, Dena's favorite pastimes include skiing, reading, traveling, and enjoying great food and wine with her family friends. Dina Denham Smith, are you ready to help us get over the hump?

Dina Denham Smith: I sure hope so. Good to be here.

Jim Rembach: I'm glad you're here. Okay, so you have this book forthcoming and, and with our production schedule and the way that it works right now, we may or may not be around where the launch of the book is, but we're going to talk about, talk about it like you're working on it right now, knowing there may be some additional changes. So we're not going to give out too much detail. But, um, for this, for this particular discussion, uh, that we're going to have here, I started thinking about how I initially found you, which was with. At one of those fast company, actually, it might even been INC Articles that you had written in regards to how can we do a better job of being creative with our thinking, impacting our leadership, impacting others around us, um, with all the complexities that we have with us today and also too, all the competing things in regards to us having to make decisions. Right. Creativity is a very, you know, separate component. And so I thought I would do a search on what are people throughout the entire globe asking about this particular topic. And it came up with 10 questions. And before we get into those, if you could share with us a little bit about, you know, the book that you're working on, um, and introduce yourself to the fast leader, Legion.

Dina Denham Smith: Well, good to be here. Thank you so much for the invitation. It's always just a pleasure and a privilege. Um, so that was quite a lengthy introduction you provided, so I won't add too much more detail, but I will share a bit about the book. Um, the book really springs from the place that Leading Today is so much more emotionally demanding than it has been historically. And there's a lot of different reasons for that. Um, but long story short, leaders haven't really been trained to handle the heightened demands of leading in today's work world. And so the book translates the science of emotions into practical strategies and tools that leaders can apply every day, um, for managing themselves more effectively in this environment of increased uncertainty and instability as well as manage others and their emotions more effectively. The workplace is always awash with emotions, but now they're as opposed to being sort of like stuffed um, under the carpet, so to speak, they're arriving really squarely at leaders doors. And so knowing how to handle some of the situations that they're facing today I think is paramount to not just maintaining effectiveness in the new world of work, but also sustaining their own health.

Jim Rembach: Well, as you say that so many things start running through my head. Uh, I had the opportunity to work with J.D. power and Associates many years ago on a new research methodology that was actually closer to the experience, uh, than what they typically had used in their data collection. And at the time they were getting um, let's just say types of data that they could not align with their four decades worth of the way that they had collected data before. And the chief scientist said nope, that's not how we built, you know, built our, our work and therefore we're not going to do it that way. And so instead of really looking at something that's a little bit more modern and timely, you know, when you start thinking about an experience, freshness of it being important, they chose not to do it. And so when I start thinking about the decades of leadership development methodologies and methods that have been utilized, um, and organizations, you know, continuing to dispel that type of, you know, learning and I think about what you just said, I'm like we got a problem.

Dina Denham Smith: Not everything from the past is irrelevant now. Um, I think of it being analogous to as technology needs to move forward, we need to digitally upskill. Well, similarly with the way that the work world has shifted and I can talk about some of the, some of what I mean by that, but we just need to upskill emotionally. It goes beyond kind of garden variety emotional intelligence into more advanced capabilities. So what we really saw with the pandemic is it accelerated these four trends in the workplace that they were already simmering is the way I like to think about it. And the pandemic just kicked them um, into high gear. So you know, one was like the adoption of virtual communication and more hybrid and remote kinds of working situations. Those are more complicated to manage than in person. Right. Um, we see the integration of AI for example across the board. Now that brings up a lot of emotion in the workplace, um, rightfully so. Diversity, equity and inclusion is being more consistently integrated into firms efforts. Well it Just becomes really a tick box exercise. Unless leaders and employees broadly are willing to change their behavior, which takes some very courageous conversations. And really, last but not least, um, there's, there's, there is really a heightened, um, demand for mentally healthy workplaces. And this comes from people who are, they're just done right. They've been in the work world for a while and they're like, we're not going to do that anymore. As well as, um, I hate to, you know, use such a broad brushstroke, but millennials and younger generations coming in, they've got a slightly different value set than baby boomers. And so you take all of these four trends, which were kind of like humming along at a pace that just got kicked into high gear, and you lay that all on a leader's doorstep. It's a lot. It's a lot. And you know, leaders are being asked to do more with less while being super compassionate and empathetic and inclusive and flexible and still driving results. Um, it's a heavy load really to shoulder. And, um, I think there needs to be broader recognition of that by organizations as well as the leaders themselves, so they can really take on strategies that, um, can protect them as they just do their jobs.

Jim Rembach: Well, as you're talking and reading over some of the things that you have written about, ah, and a few key words that you mentioned, there is. One is behavior. Okay? So when we start talking about behavior, it is wrapped with sometimes decades of habit. So modifying a behavior is not easy, you know, and oh my goodness, there's all this science about how do you actually create a new habit, which a lot of it's hogwash. Um, so that's one issue. Uh, and, and then, you know, the other issue is, goes back to the article and how I found you is creative thinking. Um, because, you know, we, we oftentimes just in the common vernacular, um, talk about insight, insight, insight, insight. But reality is, if you think about it in a, from a, well, perspective, insight is what's already in your well. All right, I have it. It's there, it's in sight, and I can draw upon that. And that's where intuition and all and all of those things come into play. And you know, my brain can maybe draw some connections if things are somewh. Um, because I have this insight in today's world with it being so complex and so differentiated and so unpredictable, I mean, to me I'm seeing that we need more out sight. I mean, it's. I want to know what Dina knows. I want to Know what Jane knows, I want to know what George knows. I want to know because I need to fill my well with that information. While I may not have experienced it firsthand, which, you know, hey, that's what I'm going to retain the most. Um, but I can still learn from their experiences. And if I don't do that type of, type of, type of strategic development, I'm going to have a problem. So when you start thinking about the development and the insight and the outside and how I explained it, what are some of your thinking on that?

Dina Denham Smith: There's so much we could unpack right there. You know, the first thing that came to my mind, you know, when you sort of made the Segway from, um, sort of the book and the topics we were just discussing there to this article, is the fact that, you know, we could have a real dearth of insight, which would be such a travesty given the complexity of the problems we're right now facing due to the way that we're working, um, which isn't sustainable because what we know, um, from the very brilliant neuroscientists who've been studying this is there's actually a process, um, to having insight. And when you understand what the process is, I think it provides a lot of guidance for how to have more of it, um, and how to ensure that you don't unintentionally create the conditions where you lose the ability to have those bigger ideas to sort of create these new connections. And so what we know from the science of the brain is that for someone to have those eureka moments or create those connections that seem to feel like you were struck by lightning, right when you get one of these ideas, like the best piece of lightning ever. But, um, is your brain is actually in a. In a certain state. State. And that is why if you think back, Jim, to sort of all the times you've had your aha. Moments, you might notice they were in the shower or you're just sort of like cruising down the highway or you're laying in bed at night and spacing out. It's because these are times when your brain is in this, sort of has these certain set of conditions and they're the following. You're relaxed, you're not actively working on the problem, and you're feeling sort of slightly positive. And so right now in the work world, right, people have such an overload of work, which we oftentimes we just try to get through. We just keep working, like trying to get to the bottom of the inbox or Trying to get to the end of the to do list. And so you're constantly in this focused state, um, that can make you feel like a bit negative, of course, um, and not relaxed. And so if you are one of these people, I had a client who found, you know, found themselves in this very situation where they're like, you stuff all these amazing ideas and I'm just not having them anymore. And it's, you know, she was, she. Innovation was a large part of her role. And so it was, you know, understandably, um, concerning to her. What she needed to do was actually step away from the work, build in times of respite throughout the day, um, and relax a little bit. Because that is when these ideas seemingly come out of your well, um, like a flash of lightning. These conditions are a little bit counter to the way in which many of us are working and feeling like we need to work these days. So you really actually have to actively, um, counteract them.

Jim Rembach: Well, I mean, so here's my thinking and when we start looking at, you know, you mentioned something about segueing from the, the article to the book, to me, I see him as one because of the complexity of the decisions that I have to make because of the complexities and uncertainties of the things that come in front of me if I don't get better at, ah, creative thinking. Creative thinking. And do that, you know, rapidly and sometimes, you know, doing in a situation with very little pieces of information how effective my am I going to be as a leader. And then it runs into the scenario where, you know, my team doesn't have confidence in me as a leader because I can't help solve problems. So it gets into this trust issue.

Dina Denham Smith: Yes, absolutely.

Jim Rembach: So, I mean, I see, I see it as a, you know, and, and therefore, you know, going back to what you had mentioned, uh, you know, it's, it's more complex than it's ever has been. You know, we say, and we have been saying this for decades, that we have a leadership crisis. Um, you know, and I even come back to what we, uh, saw experienced by the three university presidents that were grilled on Capitol Hill and what happened there. And they were talking about the lack of leadership. Well, I also see the lack of leadership in the way that they were grilled. Um, that's a problem too. So, you know, when we start looking at, uh, essentially the targets that are put on people who are supposed to be in positions of authority and power, who in the hell wants that role?

Dina Denham Smith: You know, I have, um, so much respect for people who Step up to the plate in this day and age and, and choose to lead, um, because it is. It's never been an easy role, but now, now especially. And um, not just because of the demands, but the responsibility is so significant. Right. And that comes with its perks and all of that. But it's um, you know, it's a significant responsibility when you have not just obviously the corporate interests to maintain, but you really do have such an impact on the people around you by the choices you make and their livelihoods. And so, um, it's a lot. I have so much respect and compassion and feel as though many in this world expect leaders to be somehow superhuman. You know, I often see these situations where, you know, empathy runs downhill often, but not uphill. Right. Um, and so, but leaders are just people too. And um, just as mortal and just as. Just as many, you know, human flaws, like we are all the same. But oftentimes for right and for wrong, they're held to a different standard.

Jim Rembach: You know, it's funny to say that, um, especially when you're a parent, you know, and you get called out. Um, and so for some of the things that I do and the people that I speak with and um, you know, I always get a thrown back to me from my children. Yeah, but dad, you didn't do that. And I'm like, well, the reality is, um, you treated me like I wasn't human. Believe me, I am. And I'm fallible. I said, did I was my intent, you know, to do something, you know, uh, like that? No, but it happens.

Dina Denham Smith: It happens. You know, and that's where like the sincere apology is. I, I just always have one ready because, you know, that's just. We're gonna mess up and without a doubt.

Jim Rembach: Okay, so that's again going back to what I had said and why that particular article attracted me more. It was about the whole better decision making because it has got gotten so complex and we need to improve our skills at being more creative with our thinking and being more innovative and how we are leaders. So I want to go Back to the 10 frequently asked questions on idea creation, um, that I actually received when I did this search query. So these are the questions and I will, I will preface it before I read them where I initially read these to Dina, everybody listening, watching, and uh, she goes, well, we could actually answer those with just two responses, uh, because they were all basically a little bit different and uh, but on the same topic. But I'm going to read through them anyways for everybody's benefit. Because we're going to walk through some of these and talk about how we actually should be thinking about it a little bit differently. Okay. All right. So the questions were, how do I come up with more creative ideas? How, uh, to have better ideas and insights, how to be more innovative at work, how to prime my brain for creativity, how do my best ideas come when I'm not thinking about work, how to have breakthrough ideas, how to have big ideas, how to have good ideas, how does the brain have insights, and how to have eureka moments. So as I go through those, Dina and I know we already answered some of these as us talking. Um, maybe it would be helpful if you kind of started, uh, to talk about, you know, some of those conditions that you referred to, and then also how we have to learn how to self identify. Uh, you know, because you talk about when am I in flow, you know, when are things best for me? What you know? Um, and maybe that will help people because you talk about practical application of all these things. How do I do that?

Dina Denham Smith: Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Um, one of the things that, uh, I think is important always, um, but in this instance, as well as self awareness. So we all have different times of the day where we are naturally more creative. Um, and being aware of when that time might be for you is a really good place to start. So, um, you know, for example, for myself, I know I'm definitely a morning person, but actually, in the morning, I. The best kind of work that I can do is more analytical, like, really thinking deeply about something. Um, I know that, um, my best time for insight is in the afternoon. Like, I've been packing my brain full of client conversations or writing an article for hours at this point. And my brain needs a break, and so I'll grab my dog and go for a walk. Um, and I always have my phone with me because inevitably something just pops into my head and I. Oh, that's interesting. And I know that it could also disappear, so I capture it on my phone just verbally. Um, but the afternoon is when I'm most creative. And so I try to always build in something in the afternoon where I am stepped away from the desk. I'm not in the midst of a client conversation, uh, such that. Such that I can create that opportunity for myself. And sometimes it comes and sometimes it doesn't. Um, but I know that there's a good chance that, um, whatever I've been thinking about and trying to, um, address or unravel, there's a very good chance that it'll, like the answer will just pop into my mind as I walk around the neighborhood with my dog. And so one piece is just this self awareness, like when do those insights come for you such that you know, you can build some of those opportunities more into your, into your day. So that's absolutely one thing, you know, the other, the other piece and it really goes to creating these conditions for insight is ensuring that you're not, you're not actively working against your goal. So sometimes we can be like I really want to think more creativity, right. But some of the things that we're doing could get in the way of that. So um, not building in sort of some of the slack time would be an example of that. Um, and it really gets at, to this thing that um, is known in the sort of in the science world as the recovery paradox, which is those who need a break the most are actually the least likely to take it, right? Because you're kind of on the treadmill and you might be on the treadmill literally banging your head against the desk trying to get to this answer. And really it seems so counterintuitive. But what you need to do is step away and trust that your unconscious will just keep plugging away on this without you putting focused on effort. Uh, when we focus our perception like literally and figuratively narrows. Like we can't see as broadly. And those insights that are sort of sitting right below the level, they cannot bubble up. Um, so building some habits, getting out of your own way, um, um, is also key.

Jim Rembach: Well, yeah, you hit on a really interesting, well you, and you also hit on a really interesting point. Uh, so, and I think this is important. We, we hear about the importance of sleep and how we need sleep. And uh, especially when you start talking about you know, um, the females in, in the workplace who may have kids and all the, all the other things that they need to, you know, take care of and um, you know, that, that sleep being critical and they just sacrifice it. Uh, for me I noticed something very interesting when I stayed up to like 2 and 3 o' clock in the morning for a couple days in a row. The next day my vision moved towards the center. I couldn't see in the peripheral as well as I was being able to see, um, prior to being that sleep deprived. And I think that is a brain protection mechanism that for me I became very astutely aware of because I had two back to back days of sleep deprivation. And I think for many of us, we oftentimes, uh, because we're continuously sleep deprived, don't even realize that, that has happened to us.

Dina Denham Smith: 100%. 100%. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think it's. I think it, you just become used to this, this deprived state. It becomes your normal. You know, I experienced that myself actually earlier in my career when I was a management consultant. I was, you know, traveling every single week, you know, lots of times, you know, across multiple time zones. Um, but I just get up on, you know, Monday morning, whatever, crack it on, fly, fly, fly, do client work, come home. And it really wasn't until I left management consulting and I didn't go into an easy job. I was working at a startup next, but I didn't realize until I stopped traveling so much what a toll it was taking on me. I think it can just sneak up in the background like you're saying with, with the sleep, and you aren't even on a way, you aren't even aware as, um, really how compromised, um, you are and what it might be like to, to be rested.

Jim Rembach: Well, and there's also an issue, like, I think you, you didn't quite spell it out, but you, but I think you were talking about it, is that as far as our brains and, and the way that it's actually built is when we start talking about tasks and having to do a lot of work that needs to be, you know, taken care of, regardless of what it may be, or even if we're stuck in meetings all day, you know, that's not the part of your brain that is being leveraged or utilized for some of these creative thinking elements. Uh, if you could explain that a little bit.

Dina Denham Smith: Well, I am not a neuroscientist, so this is absolutely the most layman's explanation. I always like to be careful about how I speak about the neuroscience, just, just to caveat it. But yeah, we do have different networks in our brain that, um, kind of like play a primary role in the different things that we need to do, um, as a human. And so the systems that we call upon for the more focused work are slightly different than some of the systems we need for the creative work. And one of the things that I think is fascinating about the brain and we see this play out in a couple different ways, is that, um, there are times where if we're really drawing upon one network in our brains, the other ones quiet down. It's almost like I'm in an orchestra. The drums are really loud, but you can barely hear the clarinets. And then it's time for the clarinets. And you know, so there, there is somewhat of a, almost, um, Like a seesaw effect where one is up, one is down with some of the networks in the brain. And so if you are super focused and like in a spreadsheet, right, like diving into the numbers, the chances of you having like a really creative insight are minimized. So that, that is how I would explain it.

Jim Rembach: Well, and, and as you explained it, I mean I start thinking about the day and the complexities of the day and that many times you have start and stops that are happening within a very short period of time between all of those systems. Um, and I think this is also where they talk about some of the switching costs, um, that we have. If we start talking about multiple problems that we're trying to solve for, uh, and they say because of some of the switching costs and trying to, you know, regain and get to the position where we're doing some creative problem solving with it is that we're, we're losing brain efficiency from going from one task to another. And they say if you have more than five projects that you're working on, essentially you're spending so much time in switching costs that you get nothing accomplished. Like uh, okay, um, but you know, from, especially when you start talking about, and I can, we can be gender specific here. You know, there are certain God given gifts that women have been given that men don't have. And so the, the ability to transfer quickly between those hemispheres of your brain is much stronger in females than it is in males. That's why sometimes guys, we just don't get it. And they're way ahead of us

Dina Denham Smith: perhaps on this front. Uh, I would like to share a story about one of my clients because I think she is such an inspired role model. She's a very senior leader and a multinational. And it goes to this notion of uh, the task switching that leaders need to do to go from one meeting and one set of stakeholders to the next set of stakeholders and you know, with a different topic and a different focus. And I need to show up in this different way because now I'm talking to my team of direct reports as opposed to the executive team. Like there is so much happening. You know, she, um, she starts all of her meetings 10 minutes past the hour. And from the period of like top of the hour until the next meeting, she, she sits quietly practicing mindfulness. And that helps her. Uh, she's absolutely brilliant. The results she creates are phenomenal. And that 10 minutes, let me tell you, it's probably the best investment of her time all day because it enables her to each and every meeting show up with what she needs to sort of cognitively and emotionally for the ask of that meeting. And so, um, we do. There's a lot of gear switching that needs to be happening. And so to be most effective, having these buffer zones into your day and building them in is so crucial. Um, I don't know how many meetings you've been in, Jim, but I have got people flying in at three past the hour, five past the hour, because they haven't gone to the bathroom in four hours. For God's sake. Can we at least take care of our basic biology and then add a few minutes of mindfulness, all the better. Um, but I know if a senior leader with the amount of scope she has can do it, anybody can.

Jim Rembach: I mean, that is really interesting point. I mean, um, and you talked about senior leaders, so she can kind of dictate that. But all, I think all of us who maybe don't have the opportunity to dictate, you know, some of that still, uh, need to put it as part of our planning process. Uh, so for me, one of the, um, groups that I, that I meet with, I actually facilitate. I mean, I have some very senior level leaders that are in sales and revenue generation. I have some senior leaders that are senior in marketing. I have, have uh, some leaders that are senior in, uh, cyber security and, and tech areas. Um, and we've instituted a rule. Um, if, if it's seven past the hour, you ain't getting in. Um, because when it's seven past the hour, we've already kind of gone through our initial introductions and we're starting to get into some conversation and we don't want the interruption.

Dina Denham Smith: Yeah.

Jim Rembach: So people know. Sorry. I mean, people will say, sorry, I couldn't make it. I got pulled in by and it was late by the other man. M. I mean, you have to have some of these boundaries in place. And if you can't dictate the boundaries, you still have to create some of the boundaries in place.

Dina Denham Smith: It's just good meeting hygiene.

Jim Rembach: Yeah. And then the other thing is, you know, at some point, um, talking about the whole burnout, you know, component, you know, you have to say no to certain things. No, I can't have, you know, eight back in a row, you know, back to back to back. And no, can't do that.

Dina Denham Smith: Yeah. You know, one thing I would love everyone to, ah, to really consider is, um, our default as humans is addition. Right. Like, well, what else can I do to make this better? Or what, you know, what other project might, you know, accelerate us towards this financial goal or you know, we're all constantly thinking about like what else can we do to make things better, to fix something. Um, but actually sometimes the most powerful thing is subtraction. And I'm not sure why we're not wired to think that way, but we don't seem to be and oftentimes, you know, and I think this relates to everything we've been talking about. Um, what we need to do to become more effective or to accelerate or to become more successful is start subtracting, getting rid of those meetings that are not um, fundamentally delivering value and could just be an email or letting go of that pet project that just is not delivering the results. Or you know, there's so much opportunity for subtraction and if you consciously think about it, um, then that's something that you can implement with greater ease, which can also kind of get us back to this place. Right? Like perhaps you will have created a little bit more space for some of the creative and the deep thinking that's so fundamental to leading successfully today.

Jim Rembach: Uh, okay, so you, you, I'm glad you mentioned that. Um, so there uh, was a small piece of research that was done in Korea university back in 2017 and you talking about it being uh, and you referring to I don't know why we do it this way. Well, we've been conditioned. You do this and you, and you create building blocks. Um, what they found is when we start talking about goal attainment and strategic planning, uh, and solving very complex problems is that you actually can improve your success at attaining those goals by uh, over 20% if you do this very, very important thing, uh, in, in your thought process. And that is to do retrospective engineering. M Think about this from a neuroscience perspective. I'm not talking about reverse engineering, I'm talking about retrospective engineering. I'm uh, not talking about back backcasting versus forecasting. It's very different. So what you do from a neuroscience perspective is it say I already obtained the goal as uh, we've identified, I'm there, we did it, hey, hey, celebrate. And then you look backwards and you start engineering the path in order to get to that. And what they found is um, there's more realistic timelines that are set. People are more focused on their day to day and what it takes every single day all along the way to get there. And one of the key contributing factors is what you talked about. You start, or I should say refrain from participating in things that aren't going to get you there. Retraction.

Dina Denham Smith: Mhm.

Jim Rembach: Otherwise we just Keep stacking, stacking, stacking, stacking. Driving ourselves in a tailspin and then ending up in either delusion or deliria.

Dina Denham Smith: Yeah. Yeah. There's so many reasons, um, I think, that we can end up in that spot. And one is it's such a simple little word, but, um, it's very hard for many people to say, which is no. Right, Right.

Jim Rembach: And.

Dina Denham Smith: And it typically comes from such a good place. Right. People want to help or, you know. But, um. But we all need to practice and get better at saying no, because the demands just continue to stack up. And unless you create some boundaries around it, you can drive yourself crazy.

Jim Rembach: And we also know that talking about the old school mindset, you know, the fear may be. And you may run into it, is where somebody says, well, you know what? You're not being a team player and carrying your load. Then I'm in the wrong spot. Time for a career redirection. And, uh, it ain't talking to you on a daily basis.

Dina Denham Smith: Right. And oftentimes our, our, our fears are misplaced. Right. I'm sure you heard the acronym False Evidence Appearing Real. But, um, but we, you know, we worry about things that, um, uh, we just. We just worry and we make things up and then that it influences our behavior. And meanwhile, we've made a bunch of bad assumptions about what people are going to think.

Jim Rembach: Oh, very much so. Okay. Now, um, so when I think about all the things that you do in the book, coming out and all that, uh, what's one of your secret goals that you can share?

Dina Denham Smith: One of my secret goals. Have a secret goal. Um, I think where I'll go with this. Ah, you mentioned it in passing in my bio. But I have a very, very active hobby. I am an equestrian. Um, it is my passion. And I could go into all the many reasons. I want every single listener out there to get a hobby stat, because it will make you happier and more effective. Another time we could talk about that. Um, but I switched, uh, riding disciplines about a year ago. So I was doing jumping. And then, you know, entering the fifth decade, I. I decided it might be time to de risk this endeavor. And so I switched to dressage, which is an entirely different, um, way of riding. And I'm. I'm really relearning in ways I never even imagined. But I am looking forward to doing my very first competition this year. And it'll likely be spring or summer. Um, but yeah, that would be a goal to just get out there and compete in this new discipline that I am learning.

Jim Rembach: And the Fast Leader Legion wishes you the very best.

Dina Denham Smith: Okay, here we go.

Jim Rembach: Fast Leader Legion. It's time for the hump day. Ho down. Okay, Dino Hump day. Hold on. As a the part of of our show where you give us good, good insights fast and I'm going to ask you several questions and your job is to give us a robust yet rapid responses that are going to help us move onward and upward faster. Dina Denham Smith, are you ready to hoe down?

Dina Denham Smith: Sure.

Jim Rembach: So what is holding you back from being an even better leader today?

Dina Denham Smith: I think it's probably, you know, doctor, take your own advice. I should build an even more rest.

Jim Rembach: What is the best leadership advice you have ever received?

Dina Denham Smith: Mhm. Take your vacations.

Jim Rembach: And what do you feel is one of your tools that helps you lead in business or life?

Dina Denham Smith: I'm sorry, what was the question?

Jim Rembach: What is the one of the best tools that you have that you feel helps you lead in business or life?

Dina Denham Smith: Um, I wake up uh, every day with a centering question which is, you know, what is the one thing that I can do today that will make tomorrow even easier in terms of my business, my relationships and my life.

Jim Rembach: And what would be one book you could recommend to our Legion? It could be from any genre.

Dina Denham Smith: I would recommend, um, the Brain that Changes Itself by Norman Doidge. It's brilliant and it will give you inspiration that you can continue learning and improving and changing all the way till your very last breath.

Jim Rembach: Okay, Fast Leader Legion. You can find links to that and other bonus information from today's show by going to fastleader.net and doing a search for Dina. Okay, Dina, this is my last hump day. Hold on. Question. Imagine you were given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you can take the knowledge and tools and experiences that you have now with you. But you know what? Can't take it all. You can only take one. So what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why?

Dina Denham Smith: I would take back to my 25 year old self the more um, complex wisdom, um, about the human condition. And I would take it there because I know that um, more turns around the sun that you have, the wiser the choices you make. And I imagine it would have served m me well in my 20s.

Jim Rembach: I would have concur with that immensely. Dina, I had fun chatting with you today. Can you please share with the Fast Leader Legion how they can connect with you?

Dina Denham Smith: Yeah, absolutely. You can find me on LinkedIn. Dina Denim Smith. Um, you can also find me on my website and uh, that's, uh, D I n a d smith.com Dina Denham

Jim Rembach: Smith thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom and helping us all get over the hump. Uh, thank you for joining me on the Fast Leaders show today for recaps, links from every show, special offers, and access to download and subscribe. If you haven't already, head on over to fastleader.net so we can help you move onward and upward faster.