234: The State of Exit Planning in 2026 with Scott Snider, Exit Planning Institute

Speaker A: Welcome to Succession Stories, where we identify how entrepreneurs can improve business value and transferability to ensure the legacy of your hard work. This is your host, Lori Barkman. And you're in the right place if you want to build with your end game in mind. Succession Stories is sponsored by the Business Transition Sherpa, providing expert advisory services for your business transition journey. Welcome back to Succession Stories, where we explore the journeys, lessons and strategies behind building businesses that last. I'm Lori Barkman, the Business Transition Sherpa. Four years ago, today's guest joined me for a conversation that became, uh, one of our most listened to episodes. We talked about what it is really like to build a business that's independent of its owner and why the best exit strategy begins years before you plan to leave. Since then, the conversation around business value, owner readiness and succession has only become more important. Business owners are facing new challenges. Advisors are taking a more holistic approach, and the definition of a successful exit continues to evolve. So my guest has been at the center of that evolution as a business owner, entrepreneur, educator and thought leader. He's helped shape the way thousands of advisors and and business owners think about creating transferable value and achieving what he calls a significant exit. He's the president of the Exit Planning Institute, the organization behind the certified Exit Planning Advisor designation and the value acceleration methodology. Please welcome back to Succession Stories, Scott Snyder. Scott, it is so great to be with you again.

Speaker B: Yeah, thank you for having me. It was a fun show last time. I'm looking forward to this show for sure.

Speaker A: Uh, awesome. Awesome. Well, we have a lot to talk about. We have a lot to talk about. And I just want to say for the listener that the original episode that we did in 2022 is a great listen and a great accompaniment to this episode. And we'll include the link to that in the show notes. So I do want to encourage people to, um, hear your story in more detail on the rewind. So if we think about. Here we are four years later. The last time you were here, we talked about making your business independent of you and you had a baton handoff with your father. Uh, you're now, you've been leading the organization that's done more than any other organization to shape the exit planning profession. So a lot has changed and I want to start there. So let's start there. So when we last spoke, you were preparing for the leadership transition at the Exit Planning Institute, and now you've had the baton for a while. Once you got it, what did you do with it?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I think What I, you know, thinking, you took me down memory lane for sure. I think, uh, for me, what. I think what we did internally with the Baton, before you can even go really externally to all of our members and all of our partners and vendors that support our community, was we needed to get like, uh, I would say the shop floor. Right. And so I spent probably 2022 to 2024 really focusing on, uh, building scalable people and culture. And so I think when we talked in 2022, we maybe had 12 employees, and now we have 56 employees. And in 2022 we maybe had 3,000 SEPAs. Now we have 11,000 SEPAs. And so the community and then internally at EPI has been, um, you know, has been quite a, quite an evolution and quite a, quite a change and quite some growth. But I think the first thing I did when I got the Baton was really for me to focus on how do I elevate myself to my highest and best use, to stuff that I love doing every day, that I'm supposed to be doing every day. And then how do I surround myself with key executives that can help us grow, and then how can I start building scalable culture and, and, and a workplace that people love coming to each day?

Speaker A: I love that. So looking back, what do you think some of the biggest priorities were during your first year?

Speaker B: Yeah, so we, I mean, I would say catch the rewind too, because that story will make this, this comment will make a little bit more sense in, in the whole context of our journey was, um, we had just, uh, basically came out of this leadership transformation program. And I actually just was able to write a keynote speech on this that's very simply titled. It's not about me, it's about we. What I had realized in the first segment of owning epi, so I was always an owner of epi, but I was never the person in charge. And uh, we had kind of centered an organization around the Snyders. And we didn't necessarily ever pause and ask our employees, well, what do you want? What do they want? And so in that timeframe, in the first year, it was really, we had ripped off the core values from the wall. We had replaced them with core values that were created by the entire organization. Uh, and we started to, ah, systematize all, everything that we did. And so I think within that first year, again internally, we said, okay, what kind of culture do we want to have here? What, what makes us tick? What is the mentality that we want? What do we believe in? Uh, what is the rhythm that we want to have like, how do we want to meet, how do we want to communicate, uh, uh, information, how do we want to, how do we want to come together and then what's the ultimate vision? And again, in the past it was, the vision was really built by the owners, not necessarily by the entire organization. And so we, we came up with a new ten year vision, uh, as well during that time that we're still living, uh, uh, living today. And so again, I think the first year for us, my, you know, in my, if you take me down memory lane, it was certainly that of structure, people and culture.

Speaker A: Structure, people and culture. I love it. So there was a, uh, strong foundation when you transitioned with your father, Chris. And what do you think has been the most challenging aspect of the next generation leader succeeding? He wasn't the founder founder, but he was in some ways the patriarch of what is today's organization and he's very much still part of it. So how would you think about that challenge?

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean the challenge is that I think it's like any other challenge. Right. There's two things that come to mind for me. One, there's the general challenge of uh, a majority owner letting go. Right. We talk about this in our space all the time. It's no different than us, even in our, it's no different than us, our experiences in our own business. So having dad step away from the business generally as an owner is always difficult. You're right. He wasn't necessarily the founder of epi, but he is the founder of the methodology that we teach. And so many people that meet dad or me in the marketplace, they think that we founded this thing, but it really wasn't, it wasn't technically, technically that, but there's a lot of founder principles in dad's head and uh, you know, founder characteristics. So there's the general I need to let go and let my team lead. And for me in that, you know, you, basically, for me, I have two sides of the coin. One, I'm working with my father and helping him decentralize and move away. And two, I'm trying to decentralize myself and promote a relatively young executive leadership team, uh, as well. So a lot of coaching and teaching here and then a lot of coaching and teaching. What I think the old school saying is managing up right, like managing up to Dan. So two different coaching, uh, and mentoring situations, uh, that I'm in. But nevertheless, I think one dad loves. You have to find something that dad loves. And he was still at that time, still relatively in in the business, not necessarily the day to day operations, but finding what he loves. And two, I would say understanding that I have kind of a completely different style of my dad. Right. So my dad is very private man, very conservative guy. I might be conservative, but I'm very, I'm a pretty open book. So when I get any interviews like this, I'm typically telling the good, bad and the ugly. You kind of get what you get, uh, for me and, and I am way more centered around, again, people and culture. I know it kind of sounds like, ah, just on repeat, but, uh, the things that always attracted me to our methodology was the human capital side and the social capital side, which are people and culture. And I think dad actually said this, uh, to me. And one of the reasons we made this transition, I might have talked to this four years ago, was we were rapidly growing an organization with people who were in their 30s and 20s. And dad looked at me and said, I don't even know how to work with you people anymore. Because we're so the next generation of millennials, Even some of the Gen Xers, we're just different. We want different things in the workplace. We want flexibility, we want culture and meaning. We want purposeful growth. We want collaboration in teams. We want to be a part of something bigger. So whether you're manufacturing a nut or bolt or building communities and professional education, people in those generations want to know why, like, what are we doing with this bolt or why are we building this community? And so that was just a very big transition for dad. So he would step back into the business sometimes and be like, whoa, like, numbers look really good. Dad's also a numbers guy. Right. So as long as we're hitting plan, we're moving along. But I would say, you know, within those, you know, within that transitional period, those are the things that really come to mind for me.

Speaker A: Yeah. Personally, what has surprised you the most about yourself in your transition? Becoming the leader?

Speaker B: Such a great, um, great question. I, um, I think empathy. Uh, I said this from stays and stay. I was at a conference where I happen to be the keynote in this new speech that I have, uh, again, around. It's not about me, it's about we. And then following that, they had a keynote panel, uh, during lunch. So the, everybody that had these like three main stage sessions came together for a, a panel discussion. And somebody had asked in the crowd a similar question. And I said, um, for me, I didn't know I was capable with leading with grace and love. And I know that sounds like really soft and it's like I had to pause when I said it. For me, you know, for me, I think it's a transformational moment because I was very militant in my old leadership style. I'm very gritty. My first company was a landscape construction company. Right. So think about that mentality and then having to lead folks that now are like highly educated, highly motivated, super challenging in a good way. Right. Like always challenging the status quo. And they just want to be led in a different way. And so that militant style didn't work. And so I think in that if I had to reflect on the last four years or so, my ability to be able to have like empathy, grace and love and lead with that has been something, um, quite unique for me. It's been quite a journey, uh, in my leadership transformation journey, uh, I would

Speaker A: say, well that's, I think that's beautiful to be able to look in uh, what I call the IQ and the EQ of leadership. You know, we can't just be concerned about the money. Many, um, of us, you know, think about things, uh, in different frameworks. One of my frameworks is Head, Heart, Wallet, I think is really uh, a good way to say, look, we need the balance of all three. And it sounds like you've done a great job of that, Scott, which is awesome. Um, I want to shift gears to talk about the evolution of exit planning as a profession for me and my journey. It's definitely been a key component. I, um, was in, I think your. I don't know if you would remember me as a student, probably not because you had a big group, but I think it was during COVID and it was online and it was a certificate one week and it was, hey, here's a lot of concepts and here's this value acceleration framework and here's how we should think about it as advisors. And one of the visuals that just is so compelling is the three legged stool and concepts like that which are indication of balance. What do we need when we are as a business owner thinking about personal financial and business transition planning. And for me, honestly it's been a fundamental of my practice and helping me evolve. So since 2022, how do you think the conversation around exit planning has evolved?

Speaker B: It's a really great question too. So at our summit this past year in April in Nashville, I think one of the through lines, right, one of the common denominators was the concept around personal planning. And so I think if you rewind all the way to 2005 where Peter Christman and Rich Jackham uh, build and build and create the Exit Planning Institute. They created that original concept that we have today, this alignment of business, personal and financial goals. And though Pete and Rich created this three legged stool concept and they are spot on, they had very little content or people around the personal leg. Then my dad came around in 2008 became a SEPA. 2013 we debuted the value Acceleration methodology in the Exit Planning Institute that now we own. And dad brought some meat to the bone. Right inside of the Value Acceleration methodology he has something called the step exercise. He has personal envisioning, uh, uh, workshop. So now it just wasn't this third, third leg of the stool. It was the third leg of the stool in concept. And now we have some tools and process around how do we build it? But if you Fast forward to 2026 now, what I thought was super cool at our summit was that I was able to have a panel discussion with personal planning advisors. So now we have concept to tools and workshops to uh, people that are running those tools and workshops. So I would say one of the major evolutions over the last four or so years in our exit Planning space and profession is we see more personal planners getting involved and personal planning is being more talked about than ever before. I think we're. But I would also say since then we've also done another state of owner readiness survey. Owners are more educated than they've ever been before and they're certainly more prepared than they ever been before. And so I think we're on a great track for sure.

Speaker A: If this podcast is helping you think differently about your business, then you'll love my book, the Business Transition Handbook. It's a practical guide for entrepreneurs who want to build a business that's scalable, valuable and ready for the future. It's five star rated on Amazon. Grab your copy at, uh, loribarkman Me book or check the show notes for the link. That's great. Do you think that business owners are asking different questions today than they were four years ago?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think they are naturally. Right. So the baby boomers are finally at that age that we've been talking about for decades. Right. We've always focused on the baby boomers. Right now they own 51% of the privately held companies. Their average age, I believe, is 67 years old. So it's very natural for them, I think, to say at this point in their life as people, not as owners, just as people. And I might want to think about doing other stuff. I might have grandkids, I might know. I've been working probably 50 years of my life. And so maybe it's just naturally time. So they're asking a different set of questions, uh, a little bit more difficult I think, for them too, because for 50 years their career or their business has been their identity. Right? They're very, very, uh, tied to that. And now they're kind of seeing the next chapter more in, in. In. In focus. And, and I think that's nerve wracking sometimes. I think change is hard and I think this is a difficult process. But I also see the younger generations of owners, the Gen Xers and millennials are asking a different set of questions as well because I think they're more naturally building businesses with the end in mind. Now if you think about the youngest millennial, uh, I think is 28 years old. So 10 years ago they were 18 maybe, just starting their company. They've always been exposed to great advisors like you and processes like the value acceleration methodology. So, or podcasts like yours or books like yours. So they, they've almost grown up through value acceleration. And so they're asking a whole different set of questions because they're saying, look, I'm going to, I'm going to build, buy, grow, sell a company every decade. And so I need to be positioning with that in mind. And I think lastly, the, the Gen Xers, that middle generation are very n. If you study them, they're super unique to me. They have this natural inclination, uh, to want to blend and balance their life. So they're kind of naturally, though they might not call it this, they're naturally looking at, wanting to decentralize themselves from their company because they're saying, like, man, like, I know I'm a business owner, but I'm also a mom or a dad. I have hobbies, I have community. Like, I want to have room for all these passions in my life and I don't quite know how. And so, yes, short answer is absolutely yes. There's a ton more activity. So I think it's got to be like really fun to be a professional advisor right now because now people are like, all right, let's make this happen. But all three sets of these different generations I think are asking more questions, but very different questions along the way.

Speaker A: I love your answer to that. I have clients in, from a decade perspective, the 40s, the 50s, the 60s and the 70s.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: It is very interesting. Very interesting. Right? The Ford, my Ford client in his 40s, it's all about growth and value creation. My client, as opposed to my client in my 70s, where admittedly, he's 10 years late on this. It's now getting really stressful. We're trying to figure out the right exit options for the business. Uh, it's way more challenging. There's other life stage issues that can come into play. And so my message, and I'm sure yours is too, is when time is on your side, you have more options that exit options you can create. And, you know, I appreciate your reference to the book. What's one? What's so interesting, Scott, is we published it, and I thought for sure my target is, uh, my target reader is the Gen Xer. I'm a Gen Xer. I identify that way. And I totally get this sandwich generation that we're in between, seeing how the baby boomers did it. We don't want to do it their way, but we have what we have, and maybe we can make some, some changes over the next five, seven, ten years. So that's my core audience. Well, one of the surprises is that the startup founders, uh, entrepreneurs who are maybe not the mature business owner or they're. They're not running a mature business yet. Right. It's still in, in the adolescent mode.

Speaker B: Sure.

Speaker A: Um, they're reading it and going, oh, my God, this is great. I'm building with my exit in mind. They totally get it.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker A: And so I thought your response was very parallel to what I'm seeing as well. In addition, so I appreciate your Gen

Speaker B: Xers want to exit. It's like, I call it speeding up the exits in our country. Right. It's. It's something like 38% of that generation between the ages of, what is it, about 45 years old and 59 years old, they want to exit their businesses early, earlier than the baby boomers do. And I think they want to do that because, again, they're saying, I don't know if I'll go. If you look at what they also. We ask, we also ask a question inside of the State of Owner Reddit survey. What do you want to do after you sell? And it's the baby boomers that are saying, buy another business. It's the Gen Xers that are saying, like, honestly, I don't, I don't know if I want to do business anymore. I want to go teach. I want to go hang out with my family. Like, I want to make enough money so I can live other aspects of my life. So, yeah, fair. Very interesting. For sure.

Speaker A: Very interesting. What's one misconception about exit planning that still frustrates you?

Speaker B: Yeah, I would say, uh, I would honestly, I would say, uh, personal. I would go back to personal planning. I think that regard though, I, I think it's more natural for a millennial or Gen Xer to lean into personal planning. I think a personal planning across the board, when you break down something like the state of owner readiness survey by generation, it's still the weakest leg. And so for me, maybe what's most frustrating is I believe business is personal. I think still people are saying, well, that, you know, I'll work on that later and I want to work on my business stuff or my financial stuff now. And I'm saying that none of that, I don't want to say it doesn't matter. But it only matters in context of who we are as a person first. And so we're not doing this deep work yet, uh, as business owners around purpose, identity, not what's next, right? Not what, not what's next, not what hobbies I want, but like who am I with and without my business? And I think there's much deeper work that needs to go on there that I just don't think is happening now. Now I think we're in an evolution just like we were four years ago and ten years before that. But I would say, yeah, maybe a, a pain point for mine is I really hope in the next three to five years that our community and business owners are open enough to doing deeper work that allows them to discover who they are. Because last point on that is when you look at the baby boomer generation, what I think is fascinating for me in this generation is say you're a 67 year old business owner, you've owned your business for the last 40 years. And if you're any type of business owner, right, we're all dedicated regardless of generation of building this thing. And if you're a baby boomer business owner, you're naturally inclined to really want to be successful at it. So you dive even deeper into it and then you think personal planning is like all these cool hobbies that you haven't got to do in the first 40 years of your life and now you're gonna go do now. And then you, you've been away for 40 years working at your business and now you have freedom and you have a, ah, you have a husband or you have a wife that you've been married to for 45 years and now you're spending all this time together. Like I, I know it's, it's interesting to me. I don't want to go negative necessarily with it, but like think about how that, like the relationships, effects that that might have with your kids, with your friends, with your community, with your husbands and wife, if we haven't spent any time figuring out who we are. And so I think that's my, my, uh, point where I've been trying to drive home, particularly this year, is that personal planning needs to bubble to the top more so than ever before for me.

Speaker A: Yeah, I totally agree. It's why I put those chapters around transition mindset first in the book. I'm forcing my people to read them, and then also why I've set up with my practice. When I kick off with a new client, we focus on the eq, right? We're focusing on the head and the heart before we talk about the wallet. And one of the exercises I've been using with clients and um, I do like a two day intensive where we'll sit together in person and I have them do a card sorting exercise. And it's fascinating to watch. I just, I have them give, uh, them a general question. I give them the deck of cards. They have just images, no words. And I have them sort the cards. Now the question will vary depending on what I know about them, but generally the question is, okay, as you envision your, you know, your future, pick out, try to narrow down this deck of, you know, 50 cards to less than 10. And they first go, oh, oh, I don't know, I can do that. And then they do it. And then I say, okay, now you've got your cards, tell me about them. And then they, they're verbalizing. Why was this exercise challenging?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And then what was also interesting is I did the same exercise with a husband and wife. Now, uh, they were remote. One was in person with me and one was on zoom because she wasn't feeling well. So that was even more interesting because they really did not influence. Influenced each other.

Speaker B: Interesting.

Speaker A: And that was very, very interesting. So I think for couples, as you pointed out, we have a life outside of work and how we identify. Or I'm a dad, I'm a mom, I'm a brother, I'm a sister, you know what, who am I? And your spouse is doing that too, probably. You know, I'm the spouse of a business owner and uh, now I'm not, or I might not be in the future. And so they're feeling change too. And I think that's an important recognition. I think it's important that EPI has been, um, you know, not to get lingo here on the process, but the stage of focus where advisors work with business owners on preparing. Well, what are we preparing? We're preparing ourselves. We're preparing the business. So the gate is called the prepare gate. Makes sense. Right? And that's my sweet spot. I mean, I certainly work on diagnostics and try and understand and we do the assessments and all that, but really the beauty and the power and an impact of not only the value creation, but the readiness on the personal side lives in this gate that we call a prepare gate. And how long does it take? Classic question. Well, who knows, right? It really depends on where we're starting and where we're going. But it can take the most time because it's hard. And I call this the can kicking process. Why are so many business owners kicking the can? Because this is hard stuff. That's why. So, again, I appreciate that EPI is focusing on it in, um, in, in the advisory community because it, we can't overlook it.

Speaker B: Yeah, totally agree. And I, I like the, the can kicking process kind of how you, how you open. Right. I think, I think it's even harder for a business owner because they, they are successful. Right. They likely have a meaning. Productful, product or service, great people, they live a great lifestyle. They, they have great relationships with their customer. But then they go to sell or transition their company and no one wants it, and they go, wait a second. Like, I've been like, I've had decades of success, but I have. That hasn't resulted in significance. I've had decades of income, but that hasn't, that hasn't translated to value. And so I think they kick the can down the road because they're like, man, this is really frustrating at times. Really, uh, hard. Change is difficult. We're talking about this personal planning, maybe more intimate, fluffy kind of stuff. Not ready for that. Just kick the can. Because I still have my boat and my second home, great people, and I love what I do. And so that's such a. Yeah, you're spot on.

Speaker A: That's awesome. So I want to talk about looking ahead and growing the movement of exit planning as a practice and as a profession. Uh, it's grown tremendously, as you've said, over the last four years, and it will continue to grow. Um, but yet it's still not mainstream or as mainstream as we might expect it to be. What do you think needs to happen to amplify this knowledge so more owners begin planning earlier and not running out of time?

Speaker B: Yeah, so I think you're spot on right there. I would lead with that, is that owners need to know that we exist. And so yes, we have 11,000 SEPAs. That's pretty good if we can get to the 15 or 20,000 mark. In the professional advisory world, the SIPA credential would become the second largest professional credential in the, in the country. Um, but the first place credential is the certified financial planner with 250,000 people. So even at 20,000 people, I'm still not even there yet. And so I think what really needs to happen in the next five years is that uh, it's really more of an awareness style campaign where advisors and owners are combining in kind of not one community, but there's a bridge between the two communities. And so I think that starts with something like our Drive value.com campaign, an educational resource for business owners that simplifies the more technical methodology so they can take it in small nuggets and begin to kind of intrigue and empower themselves. I also think it then starts all the way down at the college and university level. I'm super excited that next UH school year we'll be debuting a certificate in value acceleration at Seton Hall University and the University of Michigan. So that Now a uh, 22 or 23 year old college kid could come out of the, come out of college and into the workforce knowing more about value acceleration. Now it's likely that they're not going to go own businesses, but they might work for small business owners, they might work in an advisory space. So I think knowledge is power. So if I can equip that 22 year old or 23 year old professional with the, the core concepts that you and I know well, imagine if I can come out of college with that, how influential I could be on the business that I might be walking into. And I, so those are the two, the two extremes. You have new folks entering the workforce, you're educating current business owners, then you have the, the middle. And the middle I think is really the, the professional advisory crowd. So we need to continue to scale our credential. Uh, we need to continue to activate people with our credential. I think we do a really nice job at EPI of teaching you the implementation game. Like this is where we need to get owners. What we've realized over the past couple of years is that we need to help advisors transition themselves to get owners there. So we call that activation. So there's an activation process that leads to discovery, this triggering event, this clarity moment for business owners that then thrust them into the methodology. And so that's what I'm most Excited about is, uh, how do we take best practices over the last five years from the thousands of people that became SIPAs, roll that into an activation playbook so that advisors can activate themselves, so that we can activate the business owners. And so that's the next five years. That's, that's the, the five year plan. And I think that'll certainly, I think we'll be at 20,000 advisors in the next two to three years. Um, and then I think that we could be the next CFP. I think that you could see SIPA's sitting on board, like sitting on boards or like a chief Value Officer. Um, I think it's a new way of thinking about doing business in our country. No doubt.

Speaker A: Yeah, I love that and I love the notion of activation. That's what I'm all about. And rolled out something to support advisors in that process, to have conversations all the way through instead of just at the end. And I think that is sort of worth noting here and underscoring is that, um, and I don't know if you share this opinion, so I guess it's a question. Do you believe that advisors should make business conversations about the business, not necessarily about the exit part of their process? And it's not just about a liquidity event in the future. It's about how do we create, uh, the value and prepare the business as well as the owner. So, uh, the business part of the prepare gate.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, I agree. I think we should all lean into their biggest passion, which is their business. Like I can get an owner talking all day about how do I drive efficiencies, profitable revenue, how do I retain and gain great people, how do I, how do I build relationships with my customers and then introduce topics around how do you decentralize yourself? I think most small business owners, right. 94% of companies in America do $5 million of revenue and below. And I think most people, if they're listening now, if you're doing 500,000 to 5 million of revenue, you're probably already hitting a ceiling. Right? You just feel like you're jamming your head against that ceiling saying, man, I wear so many hats, this thing is getting so big that I don't know what to do. That's a decentralization moment, right. Where you need to bring in the right people. So yeah, I would certainly lead with business in my opinion. I think there's two things that we could teach a business owner straight out the gate. Exit strategy is business strategy. There's absolutely nothing different. You do things in your business every single day that eventually affect the value of your business. So why not get more intentional about it? I could give you a better business today and a healthier, stronger, more valuable business in the future, which gives you options. Who doesn't like to have options? And so I want more options. The second thing we talked about already, that business is personal. We have to showcase the three legged stool concept. We have to understand what, what place is the business serving in our overall personal plan and strategy. Uh, and I think if I can communicate those two things with owners, I think that really hits home. Like they would say, yeah, business is personal empowers my whole lifestyle, really. And I, I think most business owners probably think like you and I, when I see, I don't see 56 employees at EPI, I see 56 families. And so there's this servant leadership concept that business owners have. So I think most owners would agree that business is personal. And I think most owners would, once they understand that, they understand business strategy. I think that teaching them the relationship between exit strategy and business strategy, um, I think is also super critical. So, yes, I would certainly, I think your, your foot in the door is let me help you grow a better company. And then, by the way, let's talk about how exit strategy is business strategy. There's nothing different. I'll show you, I'll show you what that means.

Speaker A: Business owners love to talk about their company. It's the number one thing on their mind, probably 100%. 100%. All right, well, we are winding down. We've covered a lot of ground, but I think we have a couple of lightning round questions, if you're open to it.

Speaker B: Very excited.

Speaker A: Yeah, let's. All right, Simon. All right. What's a book that's influenced your leadership

Speaker B: recently that is such, uh, a great question. Lightning, uh, lightning round, I would say the, uh, happiness hypothesis. Check that one out.

Speaker A: Okay, cool. And what's a piece of advice that you have for business owners who think they're too early to begin exit planning?

Speaker B: Never too early, I would say, whether you're, you know, 65 trying to more immediately exit or 25 just starting out. Uh, I think we have an obligation as a business owner to make sure our business is healthy and transferable. Because if something happens to us, what happens to the whole ecosystem that frankly, we started. And so it's never too early to exit because we always have to at least be planning for the unplanned.

Speaker A: Okay, and you're going to finish this sentence. You ready?

Speaker B: Got it.

Speaker A: Okay. A successful exit Isn't about leaving your business, it's about blank, uh, leaving the

Speaker B: world a better place after you leave it, love it.

Speaker A: And if you're not in the office, where do we find you?

Speaker B: Motor coach, 100%. 100%. Um, I'm getting ready to get on out there. Summertime, right? So, yeah, I have a cool 40 foot motor coach that me, my wife and my three kids travel in often during this time of year.

Speaker A: Uh, cool. So, Scott, the last time you were here, you know, you challenged listeners to build businesses that can thrive without them. That was again, a key theme today. Here we are four years later. You're helping lead an entire team and profession that's making that vision possible for more owners than ever. So the last lightning question is this. If Chris Snyder was sitting here today with us on this show, what do you hope he'd say that you've done differently? Not just maintained, but improved since taking over?

Speaker B: I think he would say, uh, the building of community as part of our community. I think you would say there's something special here and if you're not in it, you just. It's one of those things that you just got to experience. And so I, um, I've spent the last four years really concentrated on, from a business perspective, on bringing people together for transformational experiences that help them scale their practices and have more impact on owners. And that's not necessarily just education. It's about bringing people together for more human experiences. And I think if dad was sitting here, he would say that was something special. And I think he'd even go a step further to say I was more of an academic, so I got the methodology down. But what you and really the team has done here at EPI is focused a ton on how do we bring these people together to create that impact. I'm probably most proud of the community that we represent now.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I'm part of that community here in my chapter as part of the chapter leadership. And I'm, uh, participating at the national. Uh, the summits are amazing. So thank you for you and your team, for all that you've done to grow the profession. Um, you know, back to your dad for one second. Let's consider this an open invitation for you and your dad to come on succession stories together and I'll interview the both of you and we'll give a little, a little time space, not just tomorrow, but let's space it out a little bit. And I think the, hey, third time's a charm, right?

Speaker B: That would be super cool. And like, what A great. We're a living and breathing succession story. Right. And there's all kinds of stuff that. That we can talk about. I always consider myself, like, generation one and a half, meaning that, uh, you know, back in 2012, dad and I bought into EPI together. Now, of course, dad bought 51% because he wanted the control, but nonetheless, like, we have a cool family dynamic and a cool family business, but this very unique. We both have skin in the game partnership. Uh, so it could be an interesting podcast for sure. We'll see if dad will come on.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah, I hope so. I hope so. Um, so, yeah. Scott, thank you so much for coming back. And we have both business owners and advisors listening to the show. So if you want to share some ways that people can connect with you or connect with epi, uh, what are those ways to connect?

Speaker B: I would say the easiest one is just to go to drive value.com, regardless of your owner or advisor. It'll give you the simplicity of value acceleration and it'll give you some access into the EPI community. If you're an advisor and you're like, what we talked about, and you're like, man, I want to be a part of that community. Maybe I want to grab some deeper education. Whether it's credentialing or summit. Go to Earn Sepa. So Sepa is C E P A. So earn sepa dot com. That'll get you to more technical side of things as well.

Speaker A: Uh, awesome. Awesome. So, uh, thank you so much for coming on Succession Stories. It was a pleasure to have you back in the redux episode. And I, uh, can't wait for our third time's a charm, uh, interview with you and your dad. Hopefully he'll say yes to that.

Speaker B: I think he will. I think I can convince him. Thank you. I appreciate it.

Speaker A: Thank you, thank you. And thanks to all of our listeners. Thanks for being a follower of Succession Stories. You can follow us in your favorite podcast player. You can also find us on our YouTube channel, business transition Sherpa. So be sure to follow the show to get all the new episodes, and we'll see you next time on Succession Stories. Thanks for joining us on Succession Stories. Before we wrap, is your business truly ready? And are you? If you're not sure, that's exactly why I created this succession readiness assessment based on the built method. In just a few minutes, you'll get a clear snapshot of where you stand and what might be holding you back. You'll find find the link to the assessment in the show notes. Btsherpa.com succession.