Is Your Business Bankable? What Lenders Want to See Before a Sale

Speaker A: Poised for Exit is the weekly show for business owners and advisors who want smarter strategies, stronger companies and better exit outcomes. I'm your host, Julie Keys, award winning certified exit Planner speaker and lifelong entrepreneur, helping private company owners build value, plan well and exit on their own terms. Every exit has real stakes. That's why Poised for Exit brings in top experts to share practical insights that help owners grow value, reduce risk and create stronger outcomes. Now, let's jump in. Welcome everybody to the Poised for Exit podcast show. Our featured guest today is a commercial lender who has been in the banking business for quite some time and he's going to be sharing with us all kinds of great content about preparing for a sale, whether you're a seller or a buyer. And he's also going to talk about different lending programs and things that you need to know if you're in the M and A space. We're going to hear from him. Back in a moment.

Speaker B: This is Andy Kosumba, um, president of Calhoun Companies. We understand that selling your business is a big deal. Since 1908, Calhoun Companies has been confidently connecting buyers and sellers from small family shops to large corporations. Our expert brokers walk with you and guide you every step of the way, whether you're looking to retire or simply for a fresh start. If you're curious what your business could sell for, or if you're ready to start the process, head to CalhounCompanies.com for a free and confidential consultation. Calhoun the Confident Choice for Buyers and

Speaker C: sellers My name is Todd Krau and I'm the president of the Twin Cities Exit Planning Chapter. If you're a business owner and advisor and want to learn more about the world of exit planning, you're invited to visit the Twin Cities chapter of the Exit Planning Institute. You can expect top level education delivered by subject matter experts at every monthly meeting. Grow your network and draw from the learning that could be a game changer for your business or your practice. There's no pressure to become a member, so come and see what the buzz is all about. Our meetings are held the second Wednesday of the month, 7:30 to 9:00am See the show notes for more information and registration links.

Speaker B: Exiting your business is a big deal, both financially and emotionally. I'm, um, John Marque, certified Exit Planning Advisor with TrustPoint. We help business owners transition smoothly on their terms. Our focus is on maximizing value, minimizing stress, and giving you confidence in what's next. Whether you're selling or passing the torch, we make the process seamless. Start planning today at uh trustpointinc.com that's T R U S T P-O-I-N-T I-N C dot com.

Speaker A: Hey, everybody. We're here today with Bob Morse, who I've known for an awfully long time and a, uh, highly respected lender with, with Mid Country Bank. And I'm so excited to have you on the show. Bob, thanks for joining us today.

Speaker D: Thank you so much, Julie. This is such an honor to be here. Thank you.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it's gonna be great. And I think that this conversation is gonna be super helpful for our listeners. Um, like I said in the show opener, we're gonna be talking a little bit about what lenders look for from sellers, what they look for from buyers, and some strategies that I think would be really super helpful for the folks out there who are in the throes or will be in the throes of some kind of MA transaction where funding is needed. So let's just jump in. I like to just get started with talking about you and how you got started. And here you are. You've been a lender for, I didn't say how many years, because I don't know. But I do know that you're seasoned and you know what you're doing. And so maybe we could just talk about. How'd you get here? Why banking?

Speaker D: Yeah, you bet. Um, well, you know, God's path. He's got. He's got a heck of a sense of humor, to tell you the darn truth. Um, but I've been doing this for over 35 years. And, um, so I started in agriculture. I was born and raised in Minneapolis with, um, I'm a cops kid. And, uh, interestingly enough, I decided to get into agricultural education. And I was in Greater Minnesota for 12 years doing farm loans, especially during the time crisis years in 1980s. I don't know, some of your clients might know about some of that stuff. You know, dating myself a little bit, but with mediations and getting things together and all kinds of different things. And then moved back here when my dad passed away in 93. And Agriculture and the Twin Cities. This doesn't really exist a whole lot. Uh, it's a little more limited. And so then I decided to get into banking and the community business world. It was an easy transition.

Speaker A: Well, and you have worked with business owners for a long time, and so you have a really great understanding of what, you know, not only what business owners need from their banker, but also how to, you know, forge that relationship and be that trusted advisor, which you know, when we talk about exit planning, and we're going to get to that in a second, but that particular role isn't highlighted as much as it should be, and I think that it should be. So maybe we could just start out by talking about how to work with a banker in today's market and then maybe starting with a seller's point of view. How should a seller prepare for a sale alongside their banker?

Speaker D: Yeah, it's really interesting. Uh, we talked about some of that. I want to be able to bring some really interesting notes for folks as far as that, you know, goes, because you can get pretty generalized on here. But yeah, I want to dig down into that a little bit. First of all, my experience in different things as far as agriculture and different parts of it, being involved in mediations and national appeals and all that, as far as that goes, and then coming into the business world themselves, starting at U.S. bank Bremer and now with Mid country bank, been here for almost 13 years, is really rounded out because when you deal with a, uh, when you deal with a banker, it's again such a generalized thing. But a lot of bankers nowadays have a niche, right? Yes, some deal with certain, certain things, a multifamily or they might deal with different real estate or just construction. I deal with all, I've been dealing with all of it. And along with that, a lot of agricultural things. So the first do's and don'ts. You want to seek a banking relationship, one that has your back. Because, um, there's, there's a lot of different ones out there that I've come across some different folks and I'm just not going to say. And I also live that portion of it being a commission, but being able to put yourself into the deal, the situation that you care about, what's going on. Some people just want to be able to get more money. That's not why I'm here. Um, and that's not what the majority of bankers are either that want to get in. They care about what's happening in where people are going to go. So seek experience, seek someone who is responsive and then seek somebody with a healthy root system. Like I talked about, I've got a lot of different things in my past network. It's very deep. You're part of my network. You and I work together on some different things and that value is really added not only to my clients, but you know what, to me individually as well. Um, so you have, you have a real influence. A lot of other people have a real influence and I'm hopefully, hopefully I'll have an infant, you know, an influence to other folks as well. The other two that I want to mention is be prepared when they come as far as, uh, you know, with meeting a banker to be able to say, you know, this is my vision. A lot of entrepreneurs are visionaries and so to be able to have that preparation about what they want to do and what their, what their vision looks like to make it into a reality is really important. And the last portion of it is to be genuine. M. You know, when I say be genuine, again, not everything is directly banker related, but everything banker related is direct. So to be able to put that into practice really makes a huge difference.

Speaker A: In other words, we don't want any guessing games.

Speaker D: No.

Speaker A: Be straight with us. Yeah.

Speaker D: The thing is, I worked with so many different clients and stuff too that say, well, not everybody, but I've had some that say, well, we got the numbers. My taxes, I make more money than my taxes. Say, you know what, it's so interesting because, you know, uh, the number crunching and what you do and everything else, that, that's my reality, to be able to go with it. So, um, CPAs and bankers, we're not always seeing the same because CPAs objective is to reduce the amount of taxes that you're paying. That's their job. Mine is to show that you're making enough money so that you can borrow it to be able to move forward. So that's kind of the difference.

Speaker A: Oh, gosh. Yeah. It reminds me of. I don't know if you know this, but I spent many years in the mortgage banking business.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, before I. We owned our title insurance company and companies, I should say, and law firm. And then, and then of course, um, you know, got into business consulting after that. This was a long, long career of, of being in the service business. But anyway, um, all of those years of lending and working with business owners and seeing those tax returns and of course they're trying to pay as, you know, little amount of tax as possible, but then when it comes to qualifying for a loan, they can't qualify. So really good advice. I'm glad you brought that up.

Speaker D: It's a real balance.

Speaker A: Yeah, totally, totally. Um, so one of the, one of the concepts that I thought made sense. Now you can clear this up. Let me know if this is if it does or not. But I've mentioned to clients in the past, you know, if you know, if it's a certain size business. Right. And there's going to be a third party Sale or even they're selling internally, but you know that there's going to be financing involved. How about you have a conversation with your banker ahead of time to make sure that your business is as bankable as possible. Right, because then you kind of got half the underwriting done. I don't know.

Speaker D: Correct. I mean, you're right. I mean, Exit Planning Institute in the Twin Cities chapter has added a lot of tools to my toolbox with being able to put some things together. And I'll talk about that more later, but sure, the idea with being able to move forward with the Exit in mind, I mean, a lot of times when I meet with clients that want to start a business, guess what I'll talk about? Exit.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker D: The first five questions are about Exit and about what their plan is not only to get started, but what's their plan to move towards the end of it and what is their objective? Right, so we'll talk more about that. But that certainly is something on my focus.

Speaker A: Well, when you bring that up, is that a surprise to them that you're asking them, um, about what their end game is?

Speaker D: It really is. 95%. I would say. 95%. Boy. I mean, it's more than nine out of ten. So I'm gonna say 95%.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Good that you're bringing it up then, because it sounds like it's pretty essential. Yeah, about it already. Yeah, for sure. All right, so let's flip the script a little bit and talk about buyers. Um, I alluded to that with the underwriting thing. Like if I say, for instance, I own a small company, um, I've got a management team maybe that wants to buy my business, or I have family members who want to buy my business. I'm not interested in carrying a note for the entire amount. Right. I know it's going to be an internal sale. We're not an ESOP candidate. I know there's going to be financing involved. Um, should I send like, my internal buyers to speak with you, or should they seek financing from a different bank? Um, maybe just speak to that buyer, regardless of the situation, of whether they're going with the seller's bank or they're going with their own. But what is it that you would be expecting and what does that conversation look like?

Speaker D: The conversation, It's a good question. You know, the conversation isn't about X's and O's, it's about objectives. And my focus, which I make known to folks too, is my objective is not to get a new client or not to Lend money and that kind of thing. That's something that I would like to do, but that's a secondary objective. You know what M. My primary objective is same as yours. Minimizing risk.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker D: I need to measure what that risk is all about and see what that gap is. I mean, we talk about the exit planning all the time and identifying where that gap is because there's not just one gap, there's multiple gaps, of course, you know, and be able to look at what those gaps are and then the pathway to that gap would make sense as far as what their personal goals are, whether their circumstances are such that they want to stay here, they want to move out of the state in their exit, they want to have a family or they don't have a family, or if they're going to do succession planning within, make it a family business, or if they want to make it outside, if they want to use the private equity, it makes a difference as far as where and how they maneuver and um, what they're going to take. Um, I can give you a primary example.

Speaker A: I would love to hear an example for sure.

Speaker D: Okay. Um, I've got a client that is out in the western northwestern part of the Twin Cities and he's in light manufacturing kind of work. He purchased the business itself. I was not involved in the purchase, but he was in the purchase itself. And it was seven figure and putting some things together. But in his information, what he did, he got an SBA loan from a different community bank. They charged him the max on what he was doing, by the way, which is prime plus, um, 2.75% on what he had. They can go a little higher on some instances, but this is 2.75%. Prime is pretty high right now. It was higher when he got it. And then he had to do cash carryback by the seller, which also involved a loan within the debt service coverage to pay. And that was at prime plus three. So he had, uh, two different loans at prime plus three. And then he did not get a line of credit by the banker because he didn't know enough to do that. Oh, he was experienced. I'm not, you know, I'm not going to speak to that one way or the other. But for some reason he didn't get a line of credit. So he wasn't made up for that portion. He had to do it personally.

Speaker A: Maybe they thought he was too leveraged already.

Speaker D: Uh, maybe, yeah. And then, and then on top of that, but. And then on top of that he had to get improvement loans. From manufacturers themselves, different vendors, to be able to bring in new machines. So he had four loans. Julie had four different loans.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker D: To be able to put some of those things together. Now, for me, um, I'm gonna try to set you up for success. I'm gonna set you up so that you have questions that are going on as client. But you know what? I can anticipate questions you don't know yet. So my philosophy is always try to set them up with a line of credit with what they have. There might be a line of credit, might be working capital. Those are two different things. To be able to put things together on it. So SBA changed on their SOPs as far as the regulations go as SOPs that they have nationally. And so we set him up on a 7A loan with SBA. I can do up to 10 years and something like that. And so I consolidated everything for what he had, put things together on it, and not only set him up for his cash flow with the wedding, what he had to do, um, but I put all that stuff together, gave him a line of credit as well on what he had. Keep in mind, I already had up to two years of cash flow where he was going, and had another projection of what he had. We did a lot of planning in regard to what it took. So it took four to five months to do all that to get him in position. But you know what, with exit planning and being on the steering committee, I was able to look at this thing going, you know what, let's think about this. Because now we're setting him up for acceleration of his exit plan because he wants to purchase the business building that he's in, which would make total sense.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: Uh, by two to two and a half years early. By doing what he had.

Speaker A: Well, yeah. Because you improved his cash flow so much.

Speaker D: We approved his cash flow. We did a.

Speaker B: We.

Speaker D: We did a. We did a special deal for him to get him as a new client. We got all of his deposits from where he was going. We set up a line of credit. We saved him over $70,000 a year in cash flow. Julie.

Speaker A: Goodness sakes.

Speaker D: And then on top of that, now he's in a real position to purchase his business. We're going to use an SBA504. Because he only needs to put 10% down on something like that.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: To be able to do it a 25 year am and if you want to build real wealth on what you have, it's two parts. You own your business and working with your business, and you Work on, uh, your business that are in it.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker D: So that's one thing I want to work to get towards it. The other thing is to purchase real estate as an owner, occupied person, individual, and, um, company within that to be able to accelerate it. And he accelerated his by about two to two and a half years, and his cash flow has improved by 73 grand a year.

Speaker A: And so it's two separate loans. It's two separate deals whenever they come to sell. Right. And then does he own the building through some LLC or anything like that as another layer?

Speaker D: There's a separate holding company and a separate layer. Yes, sure. Done that way to be able to put things together. But that's just a great example. Right.

Speaker A: I love that example. I love it. Yeah. You know, as long as we're on the SBA track, is there anything else that you would like to touch on when it comes, uh, to SBA financing? Um, I did want to touch on that a little bit today. A little bit of SBA versus typical conventional. Which way should I go and how do I make that choice?

Speaker D: Well, you know, when the first part of it that we talked about this, gosh, a couple minutes ago, when we first started it, we talked about what kind of lender are you looking for? And the first one I had. Seek a baking relationship, someone who has your back. I put this thing together. I advocated for him within the loan committee and putting things together and moving forward and spring ahead, seek experience. Remember that part of it that we talked about? So not everyone. The person he had was a community bank. He did the sba, but he didn't do it. He didn't do it with success in mind to be able to move forward on an exit that I had the experience, and I'm going to give all the credit to epi, Twin Cities chapter and putting that together. And you're the one who actually got me m involved in it. So that's, you know, that's kudos to you. So you indirectly made a huge, huge impact on what he did for his business and his core and key employees. Now they were put into a position because of what he saved on cash flow to be able to make his business stronger. So he moved two to two and a half years closer to his exit plan for what he was doing.

Speaker A: But isn't that great?

Speaker D: He also then was able to, to move, um, a couple years into it about working on his business instead of in it.

Speaker A: Good story.

Speaker D: So those are two different areas.

Speaker A: We're going to take a quick break, but we'll Be right back. Thinking about selling your business in the next few years? Don't wait to start planning. I've seen too many business owners wait too long and regret it. Freedom Financial Partners are, uh, financial advisors who specialize in exit planning for business owners, helping you reduce tax, support enterprises, protect what you've built and quantify how much you need from the sale. Their proven process helps you think beyond your business so you can move forward with clarity and confidence. The longer you wait, the fewer options you may have. Download your free financial readiness assessment today@ffpforme.com exit that's ffpforme.com exit Most business owners

Speaker E: wait too long to plan their exit and it can cost them. By the time they're ready, tax saving opportunities may be long gone. The CPAs at John A. Knutson Co. Help you plan early so you can maximize value, minimize taxes and exit on your terms. With over 100 years of guiding ownership transitions, including buy, sell, succession and ESOPs, we know the best outcomes transpire from planning ahead. If exiting your business is a future possibility, start now. Visit jakcpa.com that's jakcpa.com maybe you might

Speaker A: have an example that you could share where it didn't turn out so well. Like it was kind of a poor situation, could have been prevented and as it relates um, obviously to banking because I think, honestly I really think that not only business owners but professional advisors really, um, don't have like this component of the process dialed in very well and it's gonna make or break a deal.

Speaker D: Yeah, it really is. I mean I've got some, you know, I did put some things, some thoughts down in that so I'm gonna touch on it if I can please. Yeah, um, some clients stories with situations that were preventable, you know, most are self inflicted, some others are beyond your, you know, a bond, uh, beyond your horizon on what things are doing. But most of them are self inflicted. So I had one where it was a vet, a veterinarian, got them started in business. They were running a clinic, two clinics for a doc for themselves. The doc was just taking all kinds of vacations and time off because they had this person that was doing everything and they weren't getting paid for it really, you know, really well but they put themselves in a position. So um, long story short, I helped her buy a practice, a part time practice to be able to do that. She moved into a full time practice, did very well, got her to the next stage. About two years later she purchased her building. We did that on a conventional basis, actually, you didn't have to do SBA504 with putting things together on it. We made it with purchasing the building and self, uh, improvement. So we did an as improved thing to be able to do that. A lot of people ask that question because they don't know that that's possible.

Speaker A: Oh, wow.

Speaker D: I get that a lot.

Speaker A: So let's talk about that for a second. You're talking about, like, I'm going to buy a building because I'm already operating out of it, or I plan to, but it needs some work.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker A: Okay. So that's a specific loan program through SBA where they help you, like, do they lend at the top of the value, then assuming that the improvements are made, and then maybe there's draws or whatnot for work. Okay.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker D: Right.

Speaker C: So.

Speaker D: So what we'll do is we'll. We'll find out what the AS improved is and we'll, we'll monetize it. We'll look and see what the construction statement is. They'll get themselves the general contractor putting things together and what they need to do. And then we'll do an appraisal based on the. On the blueprints, architectural designs to show what they. What it's going to look like compared to where it is. So we'll get as, uh, as improved appraisal, whereas that, ah, you know, it's an as is, but then it's just as improved. What's this going to look like going forward? And then connect that with their own situation as far as cash flow to be able to move that forward. Then we'll have a separate draw construction draw on the purchase of the real estate and the lot and m. So what they have. And then we'll draw to make those improvements, make sure that we collect all the lien waivers. So there's no mechanic liens. Make sure they're following the plan and what they've got in the GC and then be able to make that into a reality. It's perfect. It doesn't have to be Spa504. It can be conventional. So just depending on the situation.

Speaker A: But.

Speaker D: Yeah, you can do that.

Speaker A: Good. Yeah, that's good to know. I wonder if they're. You know, there's probably plenty of owners out there listening who own their real estate and are wondering about. Okay, I don't really. I mean, I know I need to replace the roof or, you know, I've got some outdated. Whatever it is, whether it's, you know, air conditioning unit or whatever it Is Right. That needs to be updated. Or maybe it's just the exterior that needs a facelift.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker A: They could take and wrap those expenses into that kind of a loan. So I'm assuming that it's a wrap of one. Right. So you take whatever's there already and pay that off and then add on to whatever the improvements are. Right. And then you got your LTV rules and whatnot in there. But, um. Yeah. Okay, that's cool. That's cool. I don't. I don't mean to dive into that too much. I just. I'm thinking of a few people who are out there who are kind of in that situation that would be. Be beneficial for them to. To get that done now.

Speaker E: Right.

Speaker D: It applies over a lot of different folks and what they're doing. But again, it's all situational, which makes.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: Your job, my job, so much fun because.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: You know, there's one thing to make a difference that. The thing, though, with that is to make a positive difference.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: Well, that's what I'm looking for.

Speaker A: Even if I'm going to retain the real estate, Right. I'm going to rent it out to my buyer. I'm not going to sell it right away. But don't I want it to be attractive so that I, as a buyer would actually want to lease that space? Right. Yeah, so. And maybe I want to buy it someday. Maybe you're going to give me an option. And so, yeah, we have to factor all that stuff in. Let's talk real quick about, like, that ideal, um, client relationship. So you as the lender, you as the banker, are working with business, um, owner. And you're going to describe for me what that ideal business owner client relationship looks like. So if I'm trying to improve my situation with my bank or I'm thinking about switching. What are you looking for and how can you help me most?

Speaker D: Well, um, that's a great question. Again, it's all situational. So, um, it's tough for a person to ask, to know what question to ask if they don't know where to start or where to begin. So, um, mine is kind of making the roads and the pathways again, we talked to me, we talked about the gaps and some of the different things. But here's my focus. You know, basically I, as a banker, or representing my organization or whatever it might happen to be, um, or any banker, is that we win when you do. Right. So my focus is to get you in a position to be more profitable and then to work towards that exit Planning and what they have. So people, um, ask me, what's your ideal client? Well, my ideal client is going to be someone who, you know, has enough resources to be able to get from A to point B. Right. And what they're going to be able to do. The struggle is to be able to get from A to B with those that don't have a lot of the resources to be able to move from, you know, from one to the other. Cash is king on what they're going to be able to do. But there's more than one way to get things done in working on your business, as opposed to working in which we talked about a lot.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker D: Is always, um, a factor that I'm trying to get. I preach that a lot to a lot of my different, different folks. And if, if they're able to move on and I have clients that have gone to that EPI heaven where they've gotten out of exit planning and lived their next lives and what they have in their own personal objectives and such they're doing. But I've got a lot of other clients that are still stuck, you know, them m too, that are stuck within their business and they just can't seem to get over that hump yet.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker D: To be able to move forward. And that's always a challenge to be able to get that thing together.

Speaker A: Well, like you said, you know, if they have the resources, that's one thing, but they, they may not have, um, just the capability. Right. And, and being stuck does take resources, but it also takes the capabilities to be able to, you know, pull the trigger on things that you need to do to improve the business or grow the business. And cash, of course, like you said, super important, um, having cash in the business, but also not being centric. Right. And communicating with you when there are changes. Because I've had clients who ignore their banker, especially if things aren't going very well. My question is like, okay, so when was the last time you had, uh, a meeting with your banker just to kind of go over the way things are right now so that you can keep them, ah, appraised. Right. Because you just said that you try to help them become more profitable. But how can you possibly help if you don't know?

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: And, and, and keeping that information from people like you isn't, isn't going to solve that problem. So that was kind of my point.

Speaker D: Communication is key. And I, you know, thanks for saying that, Julie, but communication is key. Here's a really interesting thing that there's a, uh, Japanese culture And I got this from um, an interview that was held by Michelle, uh, Balanca. She's the CEO of Claros Technology. I don't know her personally, but just from the interview and learning some different things and stuff too. But she worked in Japan for a lot of different areas and stuff too. And something I noted on there was concept called Nemo Washi. It's called Nemo Washi. And I thought that was really interesting. But it's basically the idea of going fast by going slow. M. Have you ever heard that?

Speaker A: I have, yes.

Speaker D: Great, then you know it. But a lot of the clients that are listening, or a lot of people that are listening right now, most times you can go fast by going slow. And what I mean by that is planning from where you are now and taking some of those, some of that time in the years to be able to connect with somebody like yourself, asipa, uh, and some of the different folks that are there and the different professionals that are around you, including having a conversation with me. It's all about communication about where you want to go and then defining not only where you want to go, but defining the questions to ask so that you can start to work on that. You've talked about that many times in preparing to do it. So for instance, like, um, you'd mentioned in November at one of your presentations that there are four gaps most owners face. Four gaps? What are they? No written exit plan. Right. Over dependence on the owner itself. We talked about some of that lack of transferable value driven practices to make your, your business worth more than what you're doing. And then, um, misaligned personal, financial and business goals to be able to put those things together. But those are the four things. And again, that was a real influence on me and some of the different things that I worked on to be able to communicate that to my clients. I think that's a really interesting point.

Speaker A: Excellent. Yeah, I love to hear that. Um, let's talk more about. Because you've been a member of the Exit Planning Institute chapter in the Twin Cities for um, almost as long as it's been around. Right. We launched in 2016. So 10 years ago, more than 10 years ago now.

Speaker D: I started 2017.

Speaker A: Yeah, there you are. Uh, and you've been meeting, um, people, networking, learning, um, absorbing the content and utilizing that in your own business, in your own practice. And you've mentioned a couple of ways, but you said that you had some other examples of how it's impacted your work. So maybe we could talk about that

Speaker D: before we wrap up here, I'd love to do that. So within EPI itself, I've been part of the steering committee. One of the biggest things that I've learned throughout my career is instead of saying no to a lot of different things, say yes, and you have no idea where things are going. Just jump off the dock and go into the water. Don't put your toe in it. I think that makes a big difference. So I jumped into the planning session, the steering committee, and I've learned so much from different professionals within that steering committee. Not so much the knowledge, more like the views. Right. There's more than one way to look at something.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker D: And to see how that is going to form. Not only the educational seminars themselves. We have bonus forum every year, for instance. And some of the different things, the different speakers that are on there and stuff too, just to be more well rounded than where you are as a professional and putting things together, or as a business owner who wants to be able to sell because it makes you sharper. Everybody wants to use a sharp instrument when they're working on something as well as for cutting or for whatever they're doing, and that just makes you sharper. So some of the different things, like, uh, the state of owner readiness. We talked about value acceleration method, where protecting your business value while I'm personal, financial, and your own social goals. Um, the five Ds that we've talked about, divorce, disagreement, disabilities, uh, distress, death. We talked about some of those different concepts, the three gates, Discover, prepare and decide. I mean, I can go on and on and on and on with all that stuff.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: And that just. That's introduced a whole different world to me because I've heard a lot about, say, for instance, like, traction and, you know, eos and some of the different things they have on there. It's for some people, and for some other people, it may not be, but the concepts with being able to put that thing together and how that marries together with where you want to go, um, and where you want to be, it might make sense. Sense to be able to look at that and to maybe not follow all of it. Some people do, some people don't. But to be able to take those concepts and apply them and what you're doing, it's not about the business and where the rubber meets the road on that so much as it's about the planning, communication, and being able to surround yourself with that primary network to get things together on what they're doing. It's. It's not the same as it used to Be pre Covid and post Covid.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: I tell you, I use that so much now that that makes a huge difference to be able to. What's going on. It's a global economy. Just take a look at a lot of things that are going on right now and what. How the Iran war thing is affecting us or, um, maybe a lot of the trade and some of the different things that are going on right now that affects you as your business, that people here in the state of Minnesota, compared to what it is global, it makes a huge difference.

Speaker A: It does make a huge difference. And I love, um, your point on the things that you have learned and the concepts that you've learned through the chapter, because that kind of knowledge just expands the value that you bring to the table for your clients. You're not doing a lot of that work. Other people at the table who are, whoever's on the team are. But the more we know, the more value that we can bring to our clients. So it's great that you're still involved in the chapter. Of course, I am, too. Um, the chapter's been a sponsor of this show, and so I was happy to be able to have a little discussion about the value of belonging to it for those who are local and are thinking about joining, because we'd love to have them. And I think that it's been a successful endeavor because of the fact that we collaborate and because we share such, um, valuable content that impacts all of our practices, of course, our clients as well.

Speaker D: Well, what other deal that's on there really hit home for me on a lot of different things is this. Julie, we found out. Did you know that something as simple as retaining a strong management team can increase Your value by 20%?

Speaker A: Yeah. By research.

Speaker D: To be able to do that. And it's. That should be a goal to be able to do that. If it increase the value what you have by 20% and just finding out those types of statistics and what the research shows in the state of readiness that our chapter does, that you started and putting some things together with your influence to be able to impact that. That's huge.

Speaker A: Yeah, it really is. I think, um, just a mindset, um, shift that could occur for many owners who would think about that and go, well, I like the people I have, and if I hire other people, it's gonna cost more money. So they look at it as a line item, expensive expense versus an investment. So when you frame it that way, because it's true. If I really did have good management and good leadership, the business value would. Right. So the ROI is totally there with the right people. And, yeah, that's just one example. But, gosh, we could keep going. We got a lot of things that we could keep talking about here, but we ran out of time, so.

Speaker B: That's great.

Speaker A: Thank you for being on the show. Um, really appreciate it. Really appreciate you sharing your wisdom. Um, and people will be able to get a hold of you through the show Notes. We'll have all your contact information, if they've got lending questions, you know, different types of financing, all those kinds of things. Bob Morse, um, very much appreciate having you here.

Speaker D: Appreciate that, Julie. Thanks very much. It's a great show. Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker A: Absolutely. And thanks, everyone, for listening. Please join us again next time.