Why Your Business Hasn't Created Your Personal Vision Yet (w/ Scott Snider)

Speaker A: Help me. Welcome to the stage, Scott Snyder. Welcome to the show, brother.

Speaker B: Thanks man, I appreciate it. I love it. Thanks for having me.

Speaker A: We're going to have a great conversation. And uh, you founded, you and your father founded an organization called the Exit Planning Institute, right? Tell us a little bit about that.

Speaker B: Yeah, interesting enough. So, um, my dad was a certified exit planning advisor. Right. So though, uh, we, we technically bought the organization, but There was like 90 SEPAs if that at the time. Today there's 11,000 certified exit planning advisors across the United States. Dad was one of Those first ever SEPAs, kind of pioneering our profession. So the long and short of it is, is I was running a company. I had a landscape management and snow and ice removal company here in Cleveland, Ohio. I uh, had started that uh, out of the seat of my geometry class when I was 17 inside of high school and I had built that to a multi crew, multi, multi truck operation here and, and I then sold it and I partnered up with my dad who was working inside of the consulting world, helping business owners drive value and, and exit. Dad felt something was missing and what was missing for him was the personal side of exit and the personal financial planning side of the exit for the owner. So he became a SIPA to learn that. And when dad and I teamed up, uh, we realized that I think dad had something really special. Everybody was kind of siloed at the time. Now this is rewind all the way to 2012 and everybody was approaching the owner kind of as you talked about, right. Like not one singular goal in mind, no framework in mind. Get my feet and get out. And we knew that that wasn't working for the owner. And so dad was able to unite the uh, the, unite the advisors around a process and methodology that we call value acceleration. And so we bought the Exit Planning Institute, integrated the methodology into our teachings at EPI and began certifying advisors, uh, in this, these core values, these core concepts and this process that we call the Value acceleration methodology. So, and I took over running EPI in 2014. I guess we haven't looked back, haven't

Speaker A: looked back onwards upwards. What do you find is the most surprising thing that uh, still exists in the whole exit? You know, call it the, the, the atmosphere and all of the different um, uh, businesses and expertise and all. What's the thing that you find the most surprising still to this day?

Speaker B: Uh, I would say it's there's two things and two different things. One on the business side, business owners still think that exit planning is something that you do when you go to get ready to exit. Right. Well they don't realize is that exit strategy is business strategy. There's nothing different. The things that you're doing in your business every day today eventually affect the value of your company. So why not do them more intentionally and focused right now? So that's kind of like when you know, the business thing is, well, I'm 40 years old, I'm not going to exit for another decade now. Wait until I engage my advisor until that time. On the opposite side, I think personal planning tends to be hot in our uh, in our community right now. That business to me is personal. That's also. There's nothing different. I think uh, in the old age we, we tend to set the personal stuff aside. But as a business owner, and Jason, you know this, as an owner and multi exited owner yourself, business is very personal. It powers a lot of the things that we do in life. It powers a lot of the things that we do for our communities. And so of course it's very uh, it's very personal. So we should start investigating how that works for us as business owners, our identity and all of that kind of stuff early and often. Because I think for many owners they don't get multiple exits. I think they get one exit and then they're kind of left and sometimes they regret it. A lot of times they regret it. And so what, uh, a, what a shame to build something for 20, 30 or 40 years, exit the thing and then go, oh man, I profoundly regret selling that thing. I wish I never did. Like, what a shame. And so I think it's both sides. Rihanna, that thing never ceases to amaze me how um, exit is still concentrated later versus now.

Speaker A: It's fascinating. Two things that you said brought up something that, that we saw and have seen for a while, uh, on the, especially on the acquisition side because there's a lot of acquisitions going on right now and you have the top tier. It's like you and your dad and the organization that you've built top tier. And then there's a lot of other people acting like they know what they're doing right. And in the, on the private equity firm, our side and acquisition side, there's a lot of people that A, don't have the money, B, don't have the experience. And, and so that leads to this, this equation that number one, and this is what blows me away. 93% of companies that are put on the market ever sell. I'm sorry, don't sell. Like so you have 7% of all companies put on the market ever sell, half of those fall apart post close. And of those ones that do close, here's the one that why I believe your organization is massively important. Only they, there's, uh, they, uh, the owners that are left that have any kind of earn out only get 20%. I just saw that come out the other day. They only get 20% of the money that they're promised. And so when you start thinking about selling your business, um, you know, one of the things that you touched on is you should start thinking about that today. Right. Uh, you should always be ready to exit. And to your point, when you are ready to exit, you. You're also maximizing profitability, you know, uh, hiring correctly, taking better care of your customers, systemizing your finances. All of those things kind of fall in place in a very positive fashion. So that's a, that's a big surprises me too. Every single day, brother. Every single day.

Speaker B: I think that's the future, though. Like, we have a lot of cool stuff going on at colleges and universities where they're making certificate courses for their college students where they can learn value acceleration early. And so I'd like to think you fast forward a decade, maybe even 20 years, that the younger entrepreneur today is more exposed to podcasts like yours, teachings like ours.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: And these younger generations are actually more naturally inclined to be value creators. And so I'm like, really excited. I wish I could like, time travel 20 years to see if the stuff that guys like you and I are talking about is really make real impact 20 years from now. Where my son, who's 12, if he becomes an entrepreneur, he's growing the business with the end in mind. And to your point, he has a better life because of it. He has better people around him because of it. He has a more profitable company, a more valuable company, and more freedom. He has more freedom. He's not locked down in his business every day. He has room for multiple passions in life. And so, yeah, I think it's, uh, an interesting market to come for sure.

Speaker A: Definitely. And, and what? Talk to us a little bit. You use value, value, value acceleration a lot. What does that mean to you and to your organization?

Speaker B: Yeah, to, to, to me and, and, and, and, and epi. I think exit planning is like conceptual to me. It's the Brigham. It's the big umbrella on the top.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: I think if owners are listening, they're saying, well, like, that sounds great. Like we can align business, personal and financial goals. We can drive value. We all of that's great. That's called exit planning. The pathway to get out of our business at some point of our choosing, the strategy that comes over that is called the value acceleration methodology for us. And we would say in order to have not just a successful year over year company, but what's, what's a significant company, one that's highly valuable, ready and attractive, that's aligned to your business personal and financial goals. And now and in the future you have to deploy a strategy that we call value acceleration. So that's why I refer to it a lot because to me that puts the plan into action. It's the strategy, it's the where we get the results. It's, it's the where we, it's the, where we, where we relentlessly execute.

Speaker A: What's the big, what's the biggest mind shift that you found? Because a uh, a business owner literally has to. We talk a lot about perspective. Right? Because perspective, I believe, changes lives more than, more than tactics. And, and so when you, when you think about the mindset of the business owner, what has to change for them? Because like what you're saying, there's two things and I want to go back to something that we talked about uh, prior to the show, but this activation idea for most business owners who are dealing with putting out fires, they're looking at okay, I'm going to sell my business someday. They're not, they're, they're thinking that, but they're not doing anything about it. Right. And then, and it's so far out into the future and then you come in with this idea of, of implementation and you come in with this, this, this value proposition. What have you found is the biggest mindset that should, like our watchers, our viewers as a business owner, what's one of the biggest shifts that you think that they need to make in their mindset to get on that path?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think we're like naturally trained. If I go back through my career or maybe outside of my dad and certainly in the last 10 years when I've been, or 10 plus years I guess been, uh, I've been running our business exit Planning Institute. If you go back to younger entrepreneur Scott, I think most owners are taught how to grow successful companies strong. P Ls, great people, great customers. You need to have entangled relationships with those customers. And every year we, we feel really good about it. I think if you ask most business owners, they'd say, you're damn right. I feel successful and very proud of what I built. Maybe it's a third Generation kind of company. But what I, what I, what I think about when I say that is. And, uh, to answer your question, I think the biggest m. Mindset shift for me comes on the business perspective, because I think that's where owners are at. And I think we grow our business with income generation in mind. Ultimate. Like, we have to have a profitable company and a strong balance sheet, and that's the ultimate goal. Yes, we, we want happy customers, but if all those happy customers produce no revenue or no net profit, and it's, uh, probably not a business, it's probably a nonprofit. Right. So I think most owners are growing a business with income generation in mind and not value creation in mind. And I think the biggest mindset shift that owners can have is income to value. Just because you have a strong, profitable business doesn't mean anybody wants to buy it. Just because you have a strong, profitable business doesn't mean your son wants it. And so we have to grow the business with value in mind, not just income in mind. I think, uh, it. And I think it's a hard shift. And I think it's a hard shift because I just think we are. We are like, foundationally grow up getting taught how to grow successful companies. Guys like you and me want to change that perspective to say, well, how do I grow significant companies? I just think it takes time.

Speaker A: Yeah, it does. It does take time. And m. What are the. What are the four things? I've got, like, three things going through my mind right now that I want to ask, but what do you think the three or four things that they should focus? Like, I'm a great. Let's say that I'm a great roofer. Right. I'm a great. I own an awesome commercial janitorial business. Right. And I know my business left and right. I know the numbers of what's in the bank and when somebody's going to pay. And I've got. I'm running all this stuff in my head. What are the four things to shift into? I look at it like becoming an investor. You're now building an asset, not a business. And so if now I'm building an asset. So what are the three or four things that that business owner needs to learn that they're not currently thinking about as they make that shift from business owner to investor?

Speaker B: Yeah. I would say from my own experience, this is what I would say to owner. Four things. Number one mindset, if I'm asking you to be a value creator, you got to know how to value creator. Thinks, acts, lives. So what's the mindset. Once I understand the mindset, the next step that I need you to go into is, well, we should probably know how, uh, value is measured and determined. We have to understand how it's measured. How you talk about, uh, you know, advocating for sellers. We need to understand our business from a buyer's perspective.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So that, you know, we understand measure and determined. Once we understand how it's measured and determined by other people, not by us, then we can understand how to drive value. So now I understand how to drive it. And once I know how value is all driven, then I'm going to overlay the other stuff on you and say, I need to know how my goals are aligned. So to your point, you said it. It was beautiful. Our business is another operating, uh, is not an operating entity. It's another asset in our financial portfolio. Likely our most favorite and likely the one that's the Big Valley. I totally get it. Right. Me too. Included.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Uh, but we have to understand it's something that's powering something else well beyond us. And we need to understand then, how our goals are aligned, how is the business related to our personal vision and passions, and how do we put a financial strategy around all of it so that we can make the whole thing go. How can we get weddings done, cars paid for, foundations started, donations made? How does it power all of us? And I know many owners that are probably listening in. They probably lean into the identity of, uh. Well, I'm. I am like, I know that craft well. I build those machines for the military, or I landscape those yards, or I plow that snow, or I, I fix those commercial buildings, or I manufacture that nut and bolt. But the business, you're more than that. And you know, that business a big part of you. But you're also a mother or father. You're a golfer, you're a sailor. You're, you know, you're a charitable. You're a board member. There's a bunch of stuff that makes you go, the business is a big part of that, but how does it fit into the whole thing? So the last one would be align. How do I align business, personal and financial goals? And I think if we get those down, we could start moving that in that direction to value acceleration.

Speaker A: Yeah, I love that. It reminds me, um, you know, of. Of, uh, Keith Cunningham. Keith Cunningham is the guy that, that was the rich dad in the Rich Dad, Poor dad series books. Right? Yeah, sure. I just was blessed to have him as a mentor for ten years.

Speaker B: Uh, wow, that's Cool.

Speaker A: And he said this phrase, he said, jason, you gotta learn this. And it's in a yellow notepad. Nope. Because we're passionate. Like, I get that from you too, right? You're. We're passionate. We care about the people that are around us, we care about the businesses that we're touching. We, we get. It's, you know, excuse my language on my own show, but I call it the give a shit quotient, right? And when you have that and then you have the skills that you've developed and the systems and processes that you've developed for people who have a heart for this kind of work, it's incredible. And it comes back to one of the things, of the many things that Keith said in his Southern, simple way was, I am not my business. My business is not me. And that's hard, right? That's a psychological. Because we care. And it also bridges why most of these deals, when a private equity firm, an uneducated or immature private equity firm, brain buys a business, they forget that there's a culture component, Right? They forget that there's a culture component and they go straight numbers and they go, why are these things falling apart around me? It's because you forgot about what that original owner, that original founder, that original team decided was that I have to fall in love with the outcome of my employees first and foremost. And if they don't keep that head, that's why these things fall apart. Do you agree with that?

Speaker B: Uh, I, uh, 100% agree with that. I also say it's not just the private equity firm buying, it's the advisor surrounding the owner right out of the gate. I think many owners think it's about price, but yes, price is good, but I think it's really more about terms. And so for me, I, you. But the advisors leading you to that private equity buyout or that financial buyer buyout need to give you that education early and often. So yes, we're going to obviously look at price, but we're going to look at earn out, we're going to look at other terms, we're going to look at what these companies are going to do to our company. Because, yeah, you get with a bad buyer, it actually breaks down all the stuff that you created. And this is why they only earn 20 of what they, you know, what they're, what they're supposed to earn because they, they picked a bad buyer. So yes, there's bad buyers, but I also think there's bad advisors leading them to the bad buyers.

Speaker A: Amen.

Speaker B: So we, you uh, know it's not about, it's not about price. It's about all three things that I've been preaching here. It's about business, personal and financial. Who gets you to that biggest, most aligned goal, uh, that, that you have. And so yeah, I would say for the other stuff, I agree with you too. There's one thing that we talk about at EPI because I've had similar stories in my own business, right? You have to kind of all fall down to get back up a little bit and move forward. Is what I realized in 2020 is that from 2012, when we bought EPI to 2020, I had built a company that was really about me. Like, these were my core values, these were my employee, uh, like employee gifts, like I used to say, quite literally. Jason, we have a young, high growth company, right? Picture 11 people cranking out work, having a bunch of fun. Early phase, right? We only have 11 today. We have 56 people at EPI. Back in 2020 we only had 11. So we're hardworking. And every so often with these young folks in their 20s and 30s, I would bring a party bus to the office and we'd all go out for lunch, an extended lunch. And I was like, that's my style, right? Like, let's get out of here, man. Let's go have some fun. What I didn't realize is that people were just coming along and though I thought it was cool, they were like, dude, I just had to cancel three sales meetings and then you're chewing me out the month because I didn't, you know, I didn't get my sales done, you know, so I had a built in organization from core values to like employee appreciation events. That was really about what I wanted. I never, it wasn't about what they wanted. So I call that that phase. And I talk about this in my show and in my keynotes. I had built a company about me and not about we. And that was the pivotal point. And that's the value acceleration point too. That's when I leaned back into my dad's methodology and I was like, well, we talk about this in value acceleration. It's human capital, social capital. It's decentralizing the business owner. And so for the last six years, we ripped down the core values. We, you know, we brought that all together where we have now built a company that's really about what we all want. Some stuff I like in my own company sometimes I don't like, but it's really not about me. It's about, well, I Guess I'm the oddball out because 55 of the 56 employees love that.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And so I'm like, all right, well, we have to show up here and work. You know, we probably work 50 hours a week, so we probably should love doing it together. So it's really about we, not me. And you kind of alluded to that in what you had just commented. So, yeah, I totally think that, that, that value creator companies have embraced the we part of that knowing. And it's hard knowing that you will show up at your own company every day with stuff that you don't like. Yes, I wouldn't do it that way. Or quite frankly, no, I don't like the shuffleboard tournament. I suck at shuffleboard. I think it's a waste of stages, you know, but they all love it and brings together collaboration and cross team building, which we need at 56 people. Right. It's becoming more corporate around here. I need to make those bridges and those fun afternoons or just playing an hour of shuffleboard matter to people, man. Ah. And so, um, well, yeah, I totally can jive, as you can see on, on, on what you're saying. Very passionate about that.

Speaker A: Love that. Well, your podcast is called Exit is Now. I highly suggest it. I went and watched a few episodes. One of the ones that, on the subject we're speaking of, one of the podcasts you had was with your dad. And I find that fascinating. It was a really, really great, a great, um, show. But how it tied back. I was listening and I went. That's what a lot of business owners are, are having to do when they don't do the exit planning, when they have a bad advisor, when they, you know, because your dad, you're, you're talking about your snow blowing business, right? And, and your dad was the bank and he was your coach and he was, you know, but what he ended up doing was snow blowing, right?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Because he, he's like, well, I get. And you mentioned it just jokingly. And I was like, that's what a lot of business owners actually need to hear. Because you said, well, if you wanted to get your money back, you were going to have to go out there and do some of that snow blowing, right? Yeah.

Speaker B: So I told him. And that's such a good story. Yeah, I love the podcast is cool. Every so often we'll, we'll bring dad in and we'll tell those, like, old school business stories, right?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: That's like a corporate guy, right? Never. I, you know, you never did. I think my dad Would literally at a massive multi unit apartment complex be. He couldn't drive the plow truck, right? He's like, I don't know what the hell to do here, uh, but I need to. I want to, you know?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: I was like, well, it was one of those storms in greater Cleveland, man, that lasted 36 hours straight. We're just running. I was grilling hot dogs on the engine of my dump truck. And I called dad because people started, like, bailing, man. They're like, dude, I can't work anymore, man. I'm out of here. And I'm like, like, many owners probably listen to your show. You're like, oh. Like, I. Like, I need workers. And so I called dad, man. You're absolutely right. And I. He's like, how's everything going, man? And I was like, dude, this is tough. This is probably the worst run we have ever had. And I had like three guys bail. And he's like, how can I help? And I was like, you could drive a plow truck. He's like, no, I'm gonna hit a car. That's not gonna be great. I was like, well, you could push a snowblower around and clear, you know, 10,000 linear feet of sidewalk. And he goes, uh, I'm in. Pick me up. And I've never seen my dad do anything like it, man. It was. I've seen him do my own yard, right? But Dan out there, car heart, one suit, you know, pushing that snow was under hot dogs.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker B: I was like, he's like, you grill a hot dog on your engine. I was like, I gotta eat, man. And I gotta eat something. Warm turkey sandwiches have run out. You know, uh, it was a wild ride. Dad and I smoked, uh, cigars and plowed Snow for like 12 hours together. It was pretty wild. But to your point, dad did not have a job at. At my landscaping company, but he was my bank and he was my chairman of my board. And he said, if I need to roll up the sleeves and make it happen, if I need to roll up the sleeve so you can pay back your loan, right? I've got. I guess I got it done. Uh, that's funny. They picked up on that story, man. Yeah. We didn't go into great detail on that, but that was.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's memorable moment because we talk about there's three kinds of exits, right? One is an involuntary exit, and that's 95% of companies don't see their 10th birthday. So that's a terrible statistic. No matter who the guru of the day is that you're celebrating out there and you know, in Internet get, get rich quick scheme days, you know, that that number hasn't shifted. And um, and then you have a dictated exit, which was my first one where I actually built something that somebody else wanted to buy. But I rent, I sat down across from people who actually knew what they were doing. And I was full of ego, right. With arrogance, ignorance, impatience. And I had the wrong team. And I think that's a lot of, of what people end up with as a business owner because you're like, uh, because we're the center of the universe. Right. Everybody comes to us for yeses, no's and all this. So of course I'm going to sit down at that table and I'm going to be the, you know, the, the big honcho in charge. I, I got my ass handed to me brother because these three guys, right, that had come together from three different PE firms sat across from me and wiped the table with me. Wiped it, you know, took three years to get my money, paid me half of what I was supposed to do, and I had to jump back in three or four times like your dad in the snowblower to be able to m. Make sure that the company got to a place where it could pay me back. Right. That's a dictated exit. And I think what you and I align, uh, with and on your, on your philosophy, I, you know, we call it a custom tailored exit. Like figure out who your best buyer is, custom tailor your business for that exit. You said it in your own words, which were how is value measured and determined? And then you're going to drive value and you're, then you're going to, you're going to figure out how somebody's going to buy your business and that's how you, uh, align your exit. It's brilliant.

Speaker B: Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. No, I totally agree. I think proper exit playing that's why I said it's basically just good business strategy. I think owners want options.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: They don't want to the dictated exit. They, they, they want to be able to exit on their terms. Yeah. Uh, and the only way that you effectively do that is to start planning for your exit well before you exit. I don't care if you're 25 years old just starting your company, we should always be planning it, uh, with the end in mind. Because to your point too, there's also something we talk about. The 5Ds you talk about companies just don't make it to their 10th birthday.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: I mean, I'M saying there's companies that have been out there 25 years, but then their business partner dies and everything crumbles and now they have nothing. And so. Or like we had a client that actually was in our, our landscaping space, uh, that had, uh, some kind of, some, some, some organ burst and it sent him into a coma and he was the business. He woke up, he had divorce papers, he had, he had a business in shambles. Like to your point, everything surrounded him. Yes and no. Strategy, vision, customer relationships. What happens when he's in a coma for 30 days? Yeah, well, what happened was lost his company and he lost his wife and frankly, kind of lost his life. He's like, um, he's out selling houses now. That's what he's doing. And so, and working for somebody selling, you know, residential real estate. And you see him frankly walking around town, he does not look like the happiest dude. And so like, what a shame. Right? So to your point, 50% of the exits alone in our country are, are involuntary. It's not on our terms.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Death, divorce, disability dispute, something like that happens where we're forced out of our. Yeah. Debt. Sure. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker A: It crushes you. Yeah, it's amazing. It's like I'm, um, having a conversation with the mirror. I love hearing it from, from somebody else to me. And I know my audience likes hearing it from somebody else to me. They said Jesus didn't preach in his own hometown. I, I get why.

Speaker B: Exactly. Uh, we're well aligned for sure. And.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah. So, um, talk a little bit about where, where you and your organization are shifting, um, and, and adding. I guess maybe it's just an addition where, where you're now pivoting, um, or adding in the idea of activation. And talk to us, talk to us a little bit about what you mean by that.

Speaker B: Yeah, I would say there's two worlds of activation. One, you talk a lot about surrounding yourself with great advisors. If I'm going to surround myself with great advisors, I need to be able to advisor so they can understand the business owner. So at epi, my aha moment so far in the first few months of the year is we do a good job at EPI of teaching our advisors, not necessarily the business owners yet the advisors that surround them. The end game, and for us, the end game is the value acceleration methodology. We want, uh, owners to get into the methodology, be actively working on their exit. But given that so foreign to owners, we need to be able to activate the owners early. And so in part, activation is Advisor activation. I need to get owners, I need to get advisors thinking more like business owners, meeting the owners where they are slowing down to speeding up, talking more relationship based versus technical based. And if we can build and educate the owners, I could bring them along to implementation, which is the methodology. On the flip side, it's what you, frankly, you touched on. How do I activate the business owner? I need to get them to understand the mindset, measure and determine value, drive value and align and align goals. So on the owner activation side, we have a organization, a brand of EPI that's called Drive Value.com. drive Value.com is where owners go to get activated. It allows you to learn those four things that we've been talking about in a very easy, not invasive, nobody's selling you anything. Just get with a bunch of owners who are trying to change your mindset or are simply exploring. Maybe you are 65 years old and you're like, hey, man, I. I'm thinking about. I, um, I probably got to think about doing something else, I guess, you know, at some point. And so how do I do this? I don't want to necessarily get sold by an advisor. I just want to explore. So if you're an owner listening and you want to explore this world, you want to get activated in this world, there's a whole thing called dry value.com that we're working on as well. And, and both lead towards, I think, activation of both advisor and owner.

Speaker A: I love that. I love that. Um, all right, cool. So as we wrap up, like, if you had one piece of advice that you were gonna leave to the business owner who's watching this, and you're the only person that they're gonna see from now until the time that they have to exit their business. Hopefully not involuntary, hopefully not dictated, but if they start wanting to custom tailor their exit, what's one piece of advice that you leave for them to say, hey, take this one and start doing this?

Speaker B: I. I mean, honestly, my first thing is going to sound silly. I'm just going to say it. Uh, Jason, it's not profound at all. It's get educated.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: I think that the way, the catalyst moment for a business owner, where I move you from. Ah, yeah, like Wade. Yeah, like. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that to. Hold on, wait a second. Say that again. Is by just getting more immersed into the stuff that we're talking about again. I think many owners grow very successful companies, but it's time to actually grow significant ones. Significant companies lead to everything that's on your Show. And for me, it all starts with just activating yourself. Way to activate yourself is pick up a book, listen to a podcast, just start immersing yourself in the world of value creation and it'll lead you down that path. So I guess if you could do anything and if this is the last time I seen you, if I could just get you to activate, you'll learn how to get great advisors. You'll learn how to determine and drive value. You'll learn how to drive, uh, line goals. I don't need to teach you that. It's all out there for you. I just need you to get activated. So just pick up a book, start reading about it, immerse yourself in the world that we're talking about today.

Speaker A: Yeah, I love that. Where do people find more about you, your organization? Um, um, where do they get to you?

Speaker B: Yeah, just go to drive value.com dryvalley.com will lead you to all the places that you need to go in a zoner and track you back towards our, our company called Exit Planning Institute.

Speaker A: Awesome. Well, thank you brother for coming on. Um, thank you, thank you again. Uh, I seek out people that are protectors in this space and protectors of the business owner. And that's how, um, I came across you, Scott. And I want to just say thank you for the work you're doing, educating people, bringing them up, giving them more resources, giving them tools to fight. Because ultimately, as you said, this is most people's biggest investment. It represents 90 to 93% of most small business owners net value. And for us, there needs to be more protectors of that because those are the people that put in the sweat equity. Those are the ones that risked the, their capital. Those are the ones that risked their health and their family time and their, all of these things that they've sacrificed. And so at the end of the day, um, I just want to thank you for being one of the good ones. Highly suggest his podcast. Highly suggest you go to his website. We'll have it flashed up, um, when this goes into production. But thank you for what you do. Thank you for who you are and certainly thank you for being here on the show.

Speaker B: Appreciate it, man. It was fun. Thanks.