235: Why Execution Beats Strategy Every Time with Patrick Thean, Rhythm Systems

Speaker A: Welcome to Succession Stories, where we identify how entrepreneurs can improve business value and transferability to ensure the legacy of your hard work. This is your host, Lori Barkman. And you're in the right place if you want to build with your end game in mind. Succession Stories is sponsored by the Business Transition Sherpa, providing expert advisory services for your business transition journey. Every entrepreneur dreams of growth, but growth has a way of creating its own problems. What starts as a nimble company can quickly become a business filled with complexity, competing priorities, and a leadership team that spends more time reacting than executing. My guest today has spent decades helping CEOs solve that challenge. He's built and exited companies, coached leaders around the world, and helps organizations turn strategy into disciplined execution. His work has helped create businesses that are not only more valuable, but also less dependent on the founder. If you've ever wondered how great companies maintain focus while growing, or how founders can build businesses that thrive without them, you'll enjoy this conversation. Patrick Thien, Co founder of Rhythm Systems. Welcome to Succession Stories.

Speaker B: Laurie, thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here with you today.

Speaker A: It's awesome to have you here, Patrick. You've got such an amazing background. I mean your bio. I could go on for hours about the things that you've accomplished. I thought it'd be a great way to kick it off. Before we talk about execution and leadership, I'd love to start with your story. Story. You've built multiple companies, experienced some successes and failures along the way. You've reinvented yourself more than once. Looking back, what lessons could only have been learned by living through them? Wow.

Speaker B: Yeah. You know, my, my career started at Oracle. I, I started work at Oracle coming out of Cornell and, and from there, you know, I started my first company after two years and nine months at Oracle. So I think I've been very fortunate. I think my first company, Oracle, uh, taught me a lot about how a fast growing company should be run. I worked for Oracle in the early days when it was growing 100 a year. Uh, you know, and uh, and I had a lot of different managers in that time and it really inspired me. So it really helped me learn. So I would say first of all, you know, be grateful for your, your own personal experiences. So that's, that's me. I, I was, I'm very grateful that I had had a good experience there. And then, uh, after that you just kind of learn along the way. You learn along the way.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, for sure. So the first experience. So you were a founder of a, uh, dot com in, if we can say in the mid-90s. Is that right?

Speaker B: Yeah, I would say it wasn't. This isbefore.com, you know, so I started Metasys, which was a supply chain software company, in 1991. I grew Metasys from zero to about 25 million sales in seven years. Uh, many of those years we grew at 100% or more a year. Uh, we were very fast growing. We were number one 51 on the Inc 500. And those days was the Inc 500, not the Inc 5000.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And so I would say my head was on fire. I didn't sleep a lot. I made a lot of mistakes and survived. Somehow, you know, you see the cash ball coming, and somehow we missed the cash ball, made payroll, and life continues. So one of the things that I learned very early on was, you know, I think, I think, you know, sales is great. Sales is always great. Uh, you know, but, but, um, but cash is king. Like cash is oxygen. If you don't, you don't have cash, you can't pay someone payroll on profits. I can't go, hey, Lori, thanks for all your hard work this month. Um, I'll pay you on profits after I've collected. No, I got to collect the cash. So I think I learned that lesson very early that, um, you've got to have cash that funds your business. Your revenues may be up, even your profit, your profitability may be up. But if you didn't collect that, transform that into cash, you can't make payroll. I have never missed payroll in all the companies I've run over, over my entire career.

Speaker A: So you can't borrow your way out of bad cash flow situation.

Speaker B: You can for a short time.

Speaker A: For a short time, yes, yes, of course. My point is, um, you have to get to the root issue. And so as a business owner, that for sure, cash is king. I think that's a key message. And also it's worth noting your business in 90, you know, in the early 90s was. There was no SaaS model, there wasn't a subscription model. Right. And so we needed to, um, you know, think about, think about the business a little differently. So you were in your 30s at that time. I think we talked about you had an exit, a successful exit from that business. How, how, uh, how many years did you own it and tell me about selling.

Speaker B: I started it when I was 26, 27, I think. And I ran it for seven years and I sold it when I was 32, 33. So I ran the company for seven years, from, uh, 91 to 98. 1991 to 1998.

Speaker A: And when you sold it, were you celebrating a trophy? Did you travel around the world?

Speaker B: No.

Speaker A: No, no. So I think money in your pocket.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think, you know, I'm a romantic entrepreneur. I, I never started the company with the intent to sell. Uh, I really wanted to build an Oracle, you know, I mean, that's all I knew. Larry Allison, CEO of Oracle, which is amazing. I was so inspired. And, um, I wanted to build an enduring company that I would not sell. And frankly, I would share with you that, uh, we grew fast, we made a lot of mistakes, and I got really exhausted. I think I didn't take good care of myself. So one key lesson I would share all entrepreneurs is you're running a marathon, not a sprint, and you better learn to take care of yourself. Which I did not. My dad used to say to me, hey Patrick, you gotta be careful. You're burning the candle at both ends. And I would laugh and I would say, dad, you know, I'm actually burning a candle at both ends and in the middle. I'm so proud of that. And he would say, you know, you need to get more sleep. And I'll be like, oh, no, sleep is for the weak. You know, I'll sleep when I'm dead and all those kind of cliches. And I just worked really hard and I felt like, I felt like I could muscle my weight through everything. I'm the hottest working person in the company. I turn on the lights, I turn off the lights. You know, that kind of, um, that was in my DNA. And I would say that those are all good lessons and I think those are all the right values. You just shouldn't overdo it. You just should remember that you got to put on your oxygen mask first before you help others. And a burnt out founder CEO is not good for anyone. So initially I thought taking care of myself was selfish. And that's why I didn't do that. Every, every penny I made went to build growing the company. Uh, I always thought about the people first. And I learned later that actually taking care of myself, growing myself is not selfish. Actually, it's really good for the company. In fact, you are the leadership lid of your company. If you don't grow yourself, you will top out the growth of the company for sure.

Speaker A: And many entrepreneurs are dreaming about the inside. Uh, we can see things from the outside, right? But it feels differently on the inside. So for you in selling the business, business at 33 sounds like maybe you were even facing some burnout issues.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: What was that? What was going on at that time? What did success look like, uh, as people saw you? But then what was it? Was it actually feeling like for yourself?

Speaker B: So I would say the world saw us as being very successful on the inside. I felt like we were failing. I felt like we were making mistakes and we were recovering. We would, you know, we have customers that were not happy with us. We'd fix that. And I got really scared. In fact, one of my mentors said to me, patrick, you know, you are having the problems of a successful company. You should be grateful. You should be thankful you have these problems. And I didn't understand it at the time. I'm like, I'm not grateful I have these problems. But actually, customers complaining about some things we did poorly was because the customers cared. So Richard, my mentor, was right. Customers wanted our products to work better. They weren't exiting us. They weren't firing us. They just wanted it to work better. And so they were complaining. And, um, you know, my people were dedicated. We worked through all these issues. But I think, uh, I just. I just muscled through too many things and I didn't have, uh. At some point, I felt like the company had outgrown me, uh, and I looked for different ways to continue our journey. And so for me, I sold to a company that would continue our journey. It was a strategic buyout, and we will continue our dream and continue our journey. So for me, I felt relieved, actually. I felt like I had been a good custodian, did my best, and would, uh, continue the journey with the company bought us. So I didn't feel victorious, you know, I didn't feel my friends and my coach actually said to me, you know, Patrick, you just won the Super Bowl. You know, so, yes, I took a few months off, and it was difficult for me to take some time off because, uh, my. My DNA, my. My. My. My family background just doesn't allow me to do that. You know, my dad would call me and say, what are you doing? I said, dad, I'm on a sabbatical. He's like, sabbatical? What's wrong with you? You should be working here, young man. Get back on the horse. And so that. So three months. I took a three, four month sabbatical, I think. But I think the second month in my sabbatical, I started another company, and that was a dot com. So I started a dot com in 1999 at the height of the dot com. And that was my next adventure, actually. So uh, in hindsight, I should have taken more time off to kind of let my brain relax and not be in the vice of urgency that it was in.

Speaker A: Did you face an emotional transition from the sale of the first company, or do you feel like it was more of a recovery and then quickly jumping into the second one? Um, you know, you and I have talked a little bit about some of the challenges owners face with identity.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: I think, you know, you were a programmer, right?

Speaker B: Yeah. I think a lot of people don't realize that. I didn't realize. I didn't realize how much of my identity was really in my company and how, uh, much of my identity was in running a company. So, yes, I think when I sold the company, I was lost for a little bit. You know, it's almost like you got the. They say I'm an NFL fan, so they say when you win the super bowl, you got the Monday morning blues. You know, you wake up, you're like, going to school. What next? And so in many ways, I felt that way. I felt like, okay, what. Who am I now? What am I doing? Uh, in fact, I remember telling my wife, I said, you know, I woke up. I said, you know, I. I'm. I'm. I'm so screwed now. And she said, what? Why? She said, you should be happy. You just saw your company. I said, yeah, but I said, I don't know if I can program anymore, and I don't know if anybody would hire me as a programmer. And she's like, why would you want to program? She said, you know how a company's run, you know how to fix companies, you know how to run companies. Why would you want to go back and be a programmer? So that question or that question, that statement I had, which was like, I don't know how to program anymore. I'm useless. Was. I didn't realize, was really a, ah, lack of identity at that point in time. That made me wonder, like, what should I be doing? What's my next thing? And I would say, you know, you don't need a next thing. Sometimes you just need to rest. And that's the part. If I could do it all over, I would say, you know, Patrick, just. Just rest for the next nine months to a year. Just. Just enjoy life a little bit, you know, it's okay. It's okay to do that.

Speaker A: It's okay to take a break.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I think a lot of people don't really address the emotional nature of. Of growing a business and running really hard and fast and Then it all comes to a pause. They haven't really done some of the personal thinking and work emotionally of what's that gonna feel like after I leave? For some people it's really an identity. I know you and I had chatted about, um, the useless comment which really, gosh, it really, that hurts to hear because nobody wants to feel that way. We wanna have purpose. And um, as an entrepreneur, your purpose was driving hard and driving this programming business and selling it. Then you grew a second one. What was the exit on the second one, Patrick?

Speaker B: Uh, the exit was really because I think we survived the Internet so we were part of the Internet bubble. So the bubble burst, right? And a lot of Internet companies got washed out. We morphed our company, we had revenues, uh, we started off as an E learning company and then to survive we became more of an E marketing company. And I would say we survived in the sense that we had customers and we had a stay stream of revenue. But that's not what I enjoyed. So after doing it for about four or five years, I exited, I sold my stake to my partner and moved on. So I would say that we saved the child. This is going to sound really bad. I would say we saved our child as in the company. But I didn't like my child. Like it wasn't my passion. It wasn't, it wasn't what I enjoyed doing. And uh, I remember my dad asking me like, what are you doing? Why are you moving on? I said, dad, I, I don't have passion for this work. Uh, we've saved the company and, and, and it's good doing good work. But my partner loves this work and he's going to continue it. But, uh, but I don't really have passion for marketing as a business. I appreciate the need and I'm actually, we're pretty good at it actually. I think all entrepreneurs who've made it to some degree have to understand marketing, you know, to some degree. Uh, so, but doing it as everyday business and giving advice to people on that was not something that that was, I was passionate about. So I'm a passion chaser, I'm a dream chaser. And um, this time I had a slightly different transition when I left the company. I started asking myself, like, what should I really be doing? And one of my good friends, uh, asked me what I wanted to do and I rattled off a bunch of things that I could do and he stopped me. He said, patrick, you have an amazing resume, you have a lot of experience, you can do a lot of these things. But didn't answer my question. I said, I'm sorry, what was the question? The question was, what would you like to do? You gave me a list of things that you know how to do, not what you would like to do. And I, right there, I couldn't figure it out. I was like, oh, oh, I don't know what I like to do. And so I did a lot of reflection and I realized that I really enjoyed helping CEOs avoid getting blindsided by bad surprises that might end up costing them the companies. And that really was the genesis, the first principles of what I do today at Rhythm Systems. And now I've done this for 20 years because this is my calling. This is what I love to do. I love to help CEOs figure out what the plans are. They usually. I don't help create their plans. They're usually stuck in their head. I help them figure it out. How to document their strategies, test their strategies now, how to help them create the right execution plan so that they can achieve their goals, and how to avoid disaster by being blindsided by something they didn't expect. And that is my calling. That's why I enjoy waking up to do every single day. That's what this company does now.

Speaker A: I love that. There's the gain and there's the pain. We want to try to have both, don't we? Yeah. If this podcast is helping you think differently about your business, then you'll love my book, the Business Transition Handbook. It's a practical guide for entrepreneurs who want to build a business that's scalable, valuable, and ready for the future. It's five star rated on Amazon. Grab your copy at, uh, loribarkman Me Book or check the show notes for the link. So whether it's selling a business or promoting someone in the organization, or changing the way a company operates, I think people naturally, uh, resist transitions. People don't like change. Why do you think transitions are so hard, even when they might be a positive thing?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think. I think change is difficult because we, as humans, we get locked into something that we get comfortable with. And I think that as soon as you feel like you're comfortable, you really should get up and get moving. Because even if you don't sell your company, your industry changes. So if you get comfortable, if you feel like, oh, I figured this out, you better get up and get moving. When I say get moving, I don't mean to quit or go do something else. I just mean you need to get up and get going. You need to go visit industry Conferences or whatever it is you need to do, uh, because life doesn't stay still. So I do think that people get comfortable, uh, and we as human beings just avoid change. So I would say that, uh, some of us embrace change more easily, but I would say that that is something that all entrepreneurs need to do. We all need to figure out how to wake up and embrace change. Because usually change doesn't happen unless the pain of not changing is greater than the pain of changing. That's when we change. Uh, it's too painful not to change. And then we find the, okay, fine, I'll change. But, you know, there's so much opportunity cost involved in that equation when you act that way. In other words, I should change now, okay? Which means my business is deteriorating already. Well, if I choose not to change, my business continues to deteriorate, but it doesn't deteriorate enough for me to wake up and say, I've had enough of this nonsense. I got to change. So my question to all of us is, why do we wait? Like, why? Why can't we change our mindset and think about the opportunity cost that's about to happen if we don't change? That's how I help myself. I tell myself, look, this is like a rotting strawberry. It doesn't get any better. You know, a rotting strawberry is amazing because the strawberry looks great on the outside. I've, uh, bitten to a rotting strawberry before, and it's disgusting, but you can't tell because it just looks. It looks great and you bite into it. It's like, ah, uh, it's disgusting. So really change that you're not taking care of is happening like a rotting strawberry. It looks great on the outside, but when you bite into it, it's horrible. It's horrible. So it's not like fine wine. Fine wine gets better over time, but. But a rotting strawberry gets worse over time, even though it looks great. And I think that we need to think of, like, what is the opportunity cost of not doing this now? That's how I've motivated myself to get up and make the change quicker than I need to.

Speaker A: Yep. No, I agree with that. You've m. Talked to a lot of CEOs over the years, and so I'm curious about your personal experience as well as working, uh, with. Working with your clients, um, on strategy. So when you and I chatted about this episode and we thought, okay, there's a lot of ground to cover. What do we want to focus on? One of your core messages really resonated with me. Which is that most companies don't fail because of bad strategy. They fail because of poor execution. Why is execution so much harder than strategy?

Speaker B: You know, strategy is fun. Strategy is fun. We can actually sit in a room, come up with all kinds of stuff, uh, but the hard work hasn't started yet, you know? And, um, it's like. It's like I have a niece that, uh, had a dream years ago. She woke up and she said, uncle Patrick, I want to be an Olympian. And I thought, wow, Deborah, that's an amazing, uh, I thought it would go away, but no, she wanted to be an Olympian. And she trained over all the years and she lives in Australia, and she finally, uh, I think in the Rio, uh, Olympics, she represented Australia. She's a synchronized swimmer, so she represented Australia in the Olympics. It took Deborah more than a decade of training, of consistent hard work to take that strategy, that dream of, I want to be an Olympian. Making a commitment of being an Olympian and living like an Olympian, um, for all those years before she actually arrived at Rio. Right? So that's execution. That's execution. We can say, hey, I want to lose weight. Great. That's a great strategy. My strategy is to work out, you know, five times a week, three cardios and two weight trainings. Five times. That's a strategy. Write it down. Got it. I've written it down. Now plan it. Okay, well, I'm gonna do. Go to this gym. I'm going to that gym. I'm gonna. I'm gonna do this and that. Okay, now do it. Oh, I have an appointment with Sam. I gotta go have wine with John. I can't. What do you mean by you can't? So that's where commitments break down. That's where execution is hard. Because when you make that strategy and you make those choices, you probably did not see the distractions that are available to you at point of decision making, right? Like when you said, hey, I'm gonna work out every day at 5pm, you didn't think that at 5pm one day a client would say, hey, can I please talk to you at 5pm It's a million dollar deal. Well, of course I'm gonna have that million dollar deal discussion, right? So I guess I'm not working out today. That's why bad execution happens. Because what you should have said is, of course I'm gonna have that 5pm million dollar deal decision discussion. So what time should I work out today? Not, oh, I'm not going to work out. So between decision and getting it done is a Lack of commitment. And that doesn't get done. So between decision and getting it done is commitment. So if you truly, truly committed to getting something done, then you will figure out how to get it done. You, you will prioritize in such a way that you will get it done and you will not allow something to distract you. That is the hardest part of execution, actually. It is the prioritization and knowing what you mean when you actually say, I, uh, prioritize to do X. I think

Speaker A: there's a role for accountability too. I think it's very much about what you said being specific and following through. But then there's accountability. Whether it's to ourselves, you know, I'm a highly accountable person to myself. If I tell myself I'm doing it, I'm doing it. But to each other, right? If we're a leadership team, excuse me, um, how do we hold each other accountable? What's one thing that you've done with your leadership teams to execute better?

Speaker B: So I think, first of all, I think the mindset of accountability should be a little bit different. I think for majority of us, accountability, uh, when we hold each other accountable, lots of times a client will say to me, I want to hold John accountable or something. And actually what they really mean is, I want to give John the consequences of him not getting it done. It's like it was too late in the game. So to me, accountability starts at the beginning where you have to help John understand what the consequences are of not doing what he's doing, not what he's supposed to do. And then now we can all work towards success. So I feel accountability should be about helping that person do what they need to do to work towards success versus mindset wise, hey, if you didn't get that done, I'm going to hold you accountable and whack you on the head. If I have to whack you on the head, it's too late already. I should be holding you accountable so that you can achieve your goal. And by the way, that person needs to have the same mindset. John needs to also think, oh, yes, Patrick's doing me a favor by holding me accountable. Right? Versus, oh, my goodness, Patrick's micromanaging me. No, no, no. We both care about your success, so it takes both parties. I think that first of all, uh, we need to have the same, the same philosophy on accountability. In other words, if I'm thinking I'm holding you accountable, tell you to be successful, but if you're thinking I'm holding you accountable to micromanage you, then you're not gonna enjoy those accountability discussions with me, right? When we get into the meeting, you're gonna be like, oh, my God, here he goes again, holding me accountable. Whereas if we have the same philosophy, you'd be like, I can't wait to talk to Patrick. Cause he's probably gonna find out something that I'm missing so that I can be successful. So the mindset, I think, is really, really important.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's super important. You've said something, uh, that's a little uncomfortable. And it's, you know, you shared the strawberry idea. Well, you and I had also talked about the fish. And the idea is that the fish rots from the head. So, in other words, when a company struggles, it often is starting with the leader. How do you help CEOs face the reality?

Speaker B: How do I do it? Well, uh, the first thing I do. Well, I guess from my perspective, what has usually helped is, is I gotta shock the person first. So I. I do say that. I do say, hey, you know, uh, the fish rots from the head down. And, uh, by the way, that means you, uh. So if you think you have a. If your people have a problem, first thing I'll say is, can we first check the mirror? And then we laugh. So it's a bit of humor. It's a bit of. But it's really to get the person to just think about it a little bit. Like, could maybe, just maybe you have a slight problem in this as well. I just need a crack. I just need. I just need a person to be a little bit open. The second question I ask sometimes, I say, hey, uh, without placing blame. I've seen this movie before, multiple times, just with different actors. My question to you is, what part in this movie did you play? That always surprises the leader? They go, what do you mean by what power this guy play? I said, well, yeah, you've got a part in this movie, the movie of your company. So what part did you play? And we'll talk about that. So now we're talking about what they are doing without me being critical, without me saying, hey, what problem do you have? Or what did you screw up? Uh, but what part of this movie did you play? So we just have that discussion. And I would say to you that most leaders who care about growing themselves, it's a mindset that allows them to be open to the possibility that they may have a challenge that they have to fix. And it's usually not only one thing. It's usually not like, oh, this leader is so bad. His or her team is so great. No, I'm, um, just saying you are a part of this movie too. You've done something here that has affected this outcome. Do you recognize what part of the movie you play? And if you don't, can I help you recognize it? Can I help you see that? Uh, and usually we get some good breakthroughs with that kind of discussion.

Speaker A: Do you think most leaders are self aware?

Speaker B: I think that, um, the book on emotional intelligence tells us that EQ is made up of a few things, which, of which the number one thing is self awareness. So I think that most leaders I've encountered have some degree of self awareness. Sometimes, uh, the ego gets in the way. Right? So there may be other external factors or internal factors that are, uh, getting in the way of leaders, uh, being self aware. But yes, I have dealt with, I have met all types of leaders, some leaders for whatever reason, and I'm not a therapist, okay, I'm not a therapist, but some leaders, for whatever reason, whether it's some personal trauma in the past or something that blocks them from working on themselves. And I feel that if you're not going to work on yourself, it is hard for you to work on other people. Actually, I don't think you deserve the right to work on other people. So if you're not willing to work on yourself and say, hey, you know what, I need to improve these areas of, uh, me as a leader, then I don't think you have the right to go and tell your people, hey, you need to fix this in you. If I'm not willing to fix things because none of us are perfect.

Speaker A: Very true. What questions do you think every CEO should ask themselves on a regular basis?

Speaker B: So on a regular basis, I would answer your question a little bit differently. On a regular basis. I believe that, um, all leaders, all CEOs should do some form of reflection on a regular basis. And if you can do it daily, that's great, but definitely minimally weekly. And I think that you should first start with gratitude. You know, what are you grateful for? Uh, because even in your, in your, because you could have bad days and on bad days you want that gratitude seeking habit to make you lift up your head from this, from, from this self pity and go, I am grateful for. Boom, right? And on great days, sometimes we forget to celebrate. Uh, and I want you to remember to celebrate you're grateful for this wonderful contract that just happened. Let's go celebrate that. Yeah. Okay. So either way, I want you to start with some gratefulness and Then, and I want you to ask yourself, you know what, what did you learn? What you learned this week? That, that you should think about what are some events that, um, and I, you know, that you could have maybe done better with? And what are some events that maybe you did really well in that you should think hard about? So I think a lot of us are prone to looking for where we screwed up. Hey, this, uh, event I should have done better. I shouldn't have been so rude to that person. I should have, right? It's. We especially engineers. Engineers tend to be problem solvers. So, okay, what problem did I have that I solved? Could I have solved it better? But I also think that as part of your reflection, you should be thinking about what you did well, what you did great in, uh, and how do I repeat what I did great in? And then I think you should think about tomorrow. What are the top two or three things I'm going to do tomorrow so I can be focused on tomorrow? So I think this habit of reflection is the number one way that we can level ourselves up, that we can continue to grow. And I think that I do agree with, with the author of, um, emotional intelligence. I think self awareness, you know, self control, uh, uh, empathy. Those are three of the five, um, traits he named that I think are critical to you being a leader. That's part of emotional intelligence. And I think by reflections on a regular basis, you can improve that. And by the way, it's a journey. It's not like you can wake up today and go, oh, I want to be, take my emotional intelligence and my self awareness up, um, two notches tomorrow. It doesn't, doesn't work that way. Right? It's like, it's like, hey, if I want muscles, I got to go work out. But I don't go to the gym today and go, hey, it's better. It's bigger. No, it's like, it's like after half a year, someone says to me, patrick, you look like you've lost some weight. I'm like, really? That looks good. Thank you. Right? But for me, on a daily basis, it's not like I go do a five mile run and then show up, look in the mirror and go, yep, lost two inches of fat. It doesn't work that way. So, so, so self awareness is similar. Like, you have to continuously reflect, get into a habit of doing this work, and you get stronger as a leader.

Speaker A: Yep. Makes total sense. So, Patrick, um, if you could sit down with every founder who's five years away from transitioning, Their business. What's the one lesson that you'd want them to understand before it's too late? Wow.

Speaker B: Well, if you transition your business five years from now, you know the formula. And you've written a book about this, right? So. So I would say that there are a number of things in your book which are really important. I do think that being able to, um, put the right rhythms and process into your business so that it can run without you is critical. I think that, um, one of my good friends was selling his business a few years ago, and he said, he said, patrick, I really don't want to. I really don't want to stay with. We sell a company. And I said, okay, really? Like, you don't want to say, no, no, if I have to transition, I will. But, you know, I've built a machine here. The perfect buyer would be someone that says, dude, I got my own CEO. I don't need you now. If, if that'll be. That's the perfect buyer for me. Well, he got his wish. He got his wish. Get the, the. The buyer bought him and said, we don't need you from day one. We do not need you. Because he had trained a good president that could do everything he could do. And, um, that president was willing to stay if the buyer needed him. That president was also willing to leave if the buyer didn't want him. But he himself, the founder, he literally left the day the transaction closed. He was gone. Uh, so. So I think that is a very difficult thing to do to create a business packaged in such a way that you are still adding value as a founder, but it can run without you. So I think that's the most important thing to do.

Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. I agree totally. So we've talked about a lot of things today, Patrick. Uh, final question for you. When people look back on your work decades from now, what do you hope that they'll say that you changed about the way entrepreneurs build companies and lead people?

Speaker B: Wow. Well, my specialty is helping people to avoid those difficult moments. And if you're in those difficult moments, to really make better decisions. And so I would say to that person, uh, I would like people to think that I help them to breathe in those difficult moments, to chill, and the toughest moments where they feel like they have to choose between two high stake options. I like them to know how to pause, breathe, be grateful that you actually have these choices, and then slow down enough to create option 3, 4, and 5. Because usually options 1 and 2 aren't the right options. Usually what you're staring at, they're just not the right options. Uh, you got to chill, give your brain a chance to come out of that vice grip of urgency and then you can choose well. So I hope that I've helped people make better decisions and created the right outcomes for themselves, uh, and created the right legacy, whatever they want. You know, whether they wanted to build a legacy, uh, whether they wanted to build, ah, family wealth for themselves. I'm here to help them achieve their goals because I believe it's about execution. I believe it's about doing the right things. What you've committed to get them done, and then you can probably achieve your goals.

Speaker A: Patrick, thank you so much for being with me today. I know you have some amazing resources for, uh, CEOs and entrepreneurs, including the books that are over your shoulder and your podcast. Do you want to share a little bit about those and how people might be able to get those resources and also connect with you?

Speaker B: Yeah. So you know, I'm on LinkedIn, but come to rhythmsystems.com that's my company website. Uh, and I've got those books, like you said in my background, um, The Journey to SEO Success is my newest book. Seven key practices that all CEOs should practice. And they're good for non CEOs as well. But my core customer is the CEO. That's why it's written that way. And the book Rhythm is a Wall Street Journal bestseller and USA Today bestseller. And it's a how to book. It's a like, how do you run your company in a way that is systematic, that will give you continuous growth? So, so, so that's, uh, those are the two books. And you know, just check out my website. We have lots of free tools on there as well. And my mindset is to help people. So if you want to get in touch with me, just connect with me on my website and on LinkedIn.

Speaker A: You're an amazing resource and I really enjoyed my time with you today. Patrick, thank you so much for coming on Succession Stories.

Speaker B: Thank you for having me. Thank you.

Speaker A: And so, hey, if you're listening and you enjoyed today, why not share it with a friend? Um, be sure to follow Succession stories in your favorite podcast player. Just smash that follow button and you can also find our entire all of our episodes on our YouTube channel, business transition Sherpa. So stay tuned for next time on Succession Stories. And we'll see you with more stories about innovation, growth and transition. Thanks so much. Thanks for joining us on Succession Stories. Before we wrap, is your business truly ready and are you? If you're not sure, that's exactly why I created this succession readiness assessment based on the built method. In just a few minutes, you'll get a clear snapshot of where you stand and what might be holding you back. You'll find the link to the assessment in the show notes. Btsherpa. Com Succession.