The 80/20 Growth Strategy: How to Find Your Most Valuable Customers

1 00:00:00,080 - > 00:00:03,759 SPEAKER_00: You can 10x your business by focusing on the 20% 2 00:00:04,400 - > 00:00:05,360 that works. 3 00:00:05,679 - > 00:00:08,400 Um, they don't really tell you how to find that 20%. 4 00:00:09,119 - > 00:00:11,679 And they basically say just get rid of the 80%. 5 00:00:12,400 - > 00:00:16,800 So all of these books and methodologies and discussions 6 00:00:16,800 - > 00:00:19,920 are all about um just find the 20%. 7 00:00:20,320 - > 00:00:23,039 They don't really tell you how to find the 20%. 8 00:00:24,000 - > 00:00:29,359 So 80% of them are taking up 80% of your effort, of the company's 9 00:00:29,359 - > 00:00:33,280 resources and time and effort, but you're only getting 20% out 10 00:00:33,280 - > 00:00:33,679 of them. 11 00:00:33,840 - > 00:00:38,079 Whereas once you create the metrics from the top down and 12 00:00:38,079 - > 00:00:42,079 everyone knows about it, it has amazing ramifications through 13 00:00:42,079 - > 00:00:44,799 the whole business because all of a sudden decisions are 14 00:00:44,799 - > 00:00:46,640 objective, not subjective. 15 00:00:46,960 - > 00:00:48,880 SPEAKER_01: There's been a massive shift, I think, in the 16 00:00:48,880 - > 00:00:52,560 B2B consumer, especially since the pandemic, everyone kind of 17 00:00:52,560 - > 00:00:55,439 became, you know, a digital Avenger. 18 00:00:55,520 - > 00:00:58,000 They just kind of did their own research, they didn't need to 19 00:00:58,000 - > 00:00:59,520 speak to sales as much. 20 00:00:59,759 - > 00:01:03,119 SPEAKER_00: Most people develop software that is like something 21 00:01:03,119 - > 00:01:03,520 else. 22 00:01:03,759 - > 00:01:04,959 This is like nothing. 23 00:01:05,120 - > 00:01:09,120 I didn't really go about searching for that 8020 24 00:01:09,120 - > 00:01:09,599 principle. 25 00:01:09,680 - > 00:01:12,959 It was my aha moment was completely different. 26 00:01:19,280 - > 00:01:22,079 SPEAKER_01: Welcome everyone to another episode of SAS Stories. 27 00:01:22,159 - > 00:01:24,879 I'm really excited to be joined today by Christine Day, 28 00:01:25,280 - > 00:01:28,719 fractional CMO, growth strategist, software developer, 29 00:01:28,879 - > 00:01:29,599 and author. 30 00:01:29,760 - > 00:01:30,239 Welcome. 31 00:01:30,480 - > 00:01:30,959 Thank you. 32 00:01:31,280 - > 00:01:32,000 Great to be here. 33 00:01:32,239 - > 00:01:34,560 Thanks, so you've been on quite the journey. 34 00:01:34,640 - > 00:01:38,239 You've gone across IBM, uh, you've worked with some 35 00:01:38,239 - > 00:01:42,239 enterprise organizations, global organizations, and you've 36 00:01:42,239 - > 00:01:44,159 developed software, you've written a book. 37 00:01:44,480 - > 00:01:46,239 Tell us about your journey. 38 00:01:46,319 - > 00:01:48,239 What got you from A to here? 39 00:01:48,560 - > 00:01:49,760 Yeah, okay. 40 00:01:50,159 - > 00:01:55,040 SPEAKER_00: Uh, well, way back when I popped out of uni as a 41 00:01:55,040 - > 00:01:57,519 systems engineer and systems programmer, so I was technical, 42 00:01:57,680 - > 00:02:01,280 had a propeller head on, and was technical for four years. 43 00:02:01,519 - > 00:02:04,400 Until someone tapped me on the shoulder and said, You really 44 00:02:04,400 - > 00:02:05,599 need to be in sales. 45 00:02:05,840 - > 00:02:08,319 And looking back, it's like, oh thank God they did. 46 00:02:08,479 - > 00:02:12,879 Um anyway, so I went through sales for most most of my 47 00:02:12,879 - > 00:02:16,240 career, went into sales management pretty quickly and um 48 00:02:16,400 - > 00:02:18,719 business unit executive type roles. 49 00:02:18,879 - > 00:02:21,840 Um, but then wanted to start up my own business. 50 00:02:22,159 - > 00:02:24,479 And that's when everyone said, Oh, I suppose you're going to be 51 00:02:24,479 - > 00:02:25,280 a sales consultant. 52 00:02:25,360 - > 00:02:28,000 And it's like, I don't really like what they do. 53 00:02:28,560 - > 00:02:31,680 So digital marketing was all very new then. 54 00:02:31,759 - > 00:02:34,560 It was about 10 years ago now. 55 00:02:34,719 - > 00:02:38,960 So I worked my way from the ground up um doing tactics, but 56 00:02:38,960 - > 00:02:42,319 it soon became pretty clear that I'm a strategist. 57 00:02:42,639 - > 00:02:46,159 I mean, I was looking, that's what I was doing in corporate, 58 00:02:46,319 - > 00:02:51,039 looking at territories and um where is demand and what's the 59 00:02:51,039 - > 00:02:54,960 right product to fit that demand, getting all the right um 60 00:02:55,439 - > 00:02:57,280 resources in the right space. 61 00:02:57,439 - > 00:03:00,400 Um, so I'm a strategist at heart, so it didn't take long to 62 00:03:00,400 - > 00:03:01,439 move towards strategy. 63 00:03:01,840 - > 00:03:04,319 SPEAKER_01: Strategist and a software developer, but you've 64 00:03:04,319 - > 00:03:06,960 also mainly worked with SAS and tech clients, is that correct? 65 00:03:07,199 - > 00:03:09,599 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, most of my clients are in SAS and tech, but 66 00:03:09,599 - > 00:03:11,599 look at everything financial services. 67 00:03:11,840 - > 00:03:14,800 I've even worked with painters important enough to be fine. 68 00:03:15,039 - > 00:03:20,879 Yeah, B2C, but no, B2B is really my sweet bot, and certainly SAS 69 00:03:21,039 - > 00:03:22,479 is I I understand. 70 00:03:22,639 - > 00:03:25,120 I live and breathe SAS, so yeah. 71 00:03:25,280 - > 00:03:25,680 SPEAKER_01: Yeah. 72 00:03:25,919 - > 00:03:30,000 And you've coined something called the 8020 principle, which 73 00:03:30,159 - > 00:03:32,400 um tell us what that means. 74 00:03:32,479 - > 00:03:34,000 What was the aha moment? 75 00:03:34,159 - > 00:03:37,599 What is the 8020 growth strategy that you have? 76 00:03:37,840 - > 00:03:38,240 SPEAKER_00: Yeah. 77 00:03:38,479 - > 00:03:40,800 So I didn't actually coin the term, it's been around for a 78 00:03:40,800 - > 00:03:40,960 while. 79 00:03:41,120 - > 00:03:41,439 Okay. 80 00:03:41,599 - > 00:03:46,240 Um, it around it used, it's the it's called the Pareto 81 00:03:46,479 - > 00:03:47,759 Principle, basically. 82 00:03:48,080 - > 00:03:51,680 Villanov, I think his name is Pareto in the 18 something 83 00:03:51,919 - > 00:04:00,240 corrubbers, realized that 20% of um the economy was uh was 84 00:04:00,479 - > 00:04:02,879 controlling uh 80% of the wealth. 85 00:04:03,120 - > 00:04:05,680 And he looked at a number of different areas. 86 00:04:05,840 - > 00:04:08,159 It's always this 80-20 principle. 87 00:04:08,240 - > 00:04:10,719 I mean, there's been heaps of books written on it. 88 00:04:10,960 - > 00:04:17,600 Um, there's like Matthew, sorry, Perry Perry Marshall has written 89 00:04:17,600 - > 00:04:22,079 a book called the 80-20 principle, and it talks about 90 00:04:22,079 - > 00:04:23,519 sales and marketing. 91 00:04:23,680 - > 00:04:29,040 Um, the most common one at the moment is um 10x is easier than 92 00:04:29,120 - > 00:04:32,240 2x by Dan Sullivan and Benjamin Harvey. 93 00:04:32,319 - > 00:04:36,480 And they basically say you can 10x your business by focusing on 94 00:04:36,480 - > 00:04:38,879 the 20% that works. 95 00:04:39,199 - > 00:04:43,199 Um, they don't really tell you how to find that 20%, and they 96 00:04:43,199 - > 00:04:45,199 basically say just get rid of the 80%. 97 00:04:45,920 - > 00:04:50,319 So all of these books and methodologies and discussions 98 00:04:50,319 - > 00:04:53,439 are all about um just find the 20%. 99 00:04:53,839 - > 00:04:56,560 They don't really tell you how to find the 20%. 100 00:04:57,519 - > 00:05:03,439 So um I I didn't really go about searching for that 80-20 101 00:05:03,439 - > 00:05:04,000 principle. 102 00:05:04,079 - > 00:05:07,199 It was my aha moment was completely different. 103 00:05:07,439 - > 00:05:11,120 Um, it was so to get to your question of the aha moment. 104 00:05:11,439 - > 00:05:15,199 Um, I was working with a client, I've been working with them for 105 00:05:15,199 - > 00:05:16,319 over a year. 106 00:05:16,639 - > 00:05:21,199 They um we always had a monthly get together, and this 107 00:05:21,199 - > 00:05:25,040 particular month they call me early and ask me into their 108 00:05:25,040 - > 00:05:27,920 offices, and I'm going, oh, okay, this is not good. 109 00:05:28,240 - > 00:05:31,600 Um, I get to their offices and I'm going, waiting for it, 110 00:05:31,759 - > 00:05:32,319 waiting for it. 111 00:05:32,480 - > 00:05:35,519 Right at the very end, they sort of go, Well, we've lost our 112 00:05:35,519 - > 00:05:36,560 largest client. 113 00:05:36,720 - > 00:05:38,560 So I thought, oh, that's not good. 114 00:05:38,720 - > 00:05:40,879 Not devastating, but not good. 115 00:05:41,199 - > 00:05:44,639 Um, and then they proceeded to say, Well, you know how we said 116 00:05:44,639 - > 00:05:49,279 that our ideal customer profile was wealthy, high net worth 117 00:05:49,279 - > 00:05:50,240 individuals. 118 00:05:50,399 - > 00:05:51,920 Um, we've changed our mind. 119 00:05:52,000 - > 00:05:54,319 We want ma and pa in the hills. 120 00:05:54,560 - > 00:05:58,959 And I just went, I've just put this whole strategy together and 121 00:05:58,959 - > 00:06:03,360 we've been working on it for over a year, been working well, 122 00:06:03,680 - > 00:06:06,399 and I always pride myself on being data-driven. 123 00:06:06,560 - > 00:06:10,879 So everything I did, I interviewed the clients, I made 124 00:06:10,879 - > 00:06:13,439 sure that everything that came out of that data. 125 00:06:13,600 - > 00:06:16,639 So when I say data-driven, I don't mean looking at 126 00:06:16,639 - > 00:06:20,720 dashboards, and that's really important for the tactics, but 127 00:06:20,720 - > 00:06:23,519 I'm talking about from the strategy perspective. 128 00:06:23,759 - > 00:06:24,720 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, more data. 129 00:06:24,959 - > 00:06:25,759 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 130 00:06:25,920 - > 00:06:28,399 Data from the source, from the most important people. 131 00:06:28,639 - > 00:06:28,959 SPEAKER_01: The client. 132 00:06:29,120 - > 00:06:29,680 SPEAKER_00: The client. 133 00:06:30,079 - > 00:06:30,480 Voila. 134 00:06:30,800 - > 00:06:32,079 They're the only ones that matter. 135 00:06:32,240 - > 00:06:32,480 SPEAKER_02: Yeah. 136 00:06:32,639 - > 00:06:35,920 SPEAKER_00: So everything was driven by those conversations. 137 00:06:36,560 - > 00:06:41,519 But now all of a sudden, the initial there's only one point 138 00:06:41,519 - > 00:06:47,199 in the entire process that's not data-driven that was left up to 139 00:06:47,199 - > 00:06:51,199 opinion and I mean experienced opinion. 140 00:06:51,360 - > 00:06:55,279 Like the founders have been through things for many, many 141 00:06:55,279 - > 00:06:59,839 years and have come up with this opinion and this um assumption, 142 00:06:59,920 - > 00:07:02,160 if you like, that that's what they wanted to do. 143 00:07:02,319 - > 00:07:04,399 So, but it's not data-driven, right? 144 00:07:04,639 - > 00:07:10,399 So that's what got me to think I need to find a way to get that 145 00:07:10,399 - > 00:07:13,759 ideal customer profile driven by data. 146 00:07:13,920 - > 00:07:14,959 How do I do that? 147 00:07:15,120 - > 00:07:15,439 SPEAKER_02: Yeah. 148 00:07:15,680 - > 00:07:19,120 SPEAKER_00: And that's when I started on the whole 8020 149 00:07:19,120 - > 00:07:23,360 principle and looking at metrics and looking at you know, 150 00:07:23,439 - > 00:07:24,639 uploading data. 151 00:07:24,800 - > 00:07:29,680 And that's when I started with the whole idea and then went 152 00:07:29,680 - > 00:07:32,959 into, oh, this is a lot of data, and it's actually quite hard. 153 00:07:33,120 - > 00:07:36,160 I think I need to develop a soft piece of software to do it. 154 00:07:36,560 - > 00:07:39,120 SPEAKER_01: So tell us about the software, but before you do it, 155 00:07:39,199 - > 00:07:42,000 I still I'm trying to get wrap my head around this 80-20. 156 00:07:42,160 - > 00:07:47,120 So is oh yeah, essentially, say an organization has clients, is 157 00:07:47,120 - > 00:07:53,920 it 20% of them are the ideal clients, and 80% are probably 158 00:07:54,800 - > 00:07:58,959 not the most ideal, and probably consuming more resources than 159 00:07:58,959 - > 00:08:01,680 they should, and eating up a lot of the budgets and everything 160 00:08:01,680 - > 00:08:02,000 like that. 161 00:08:02,240 - > 00:08:03,120 SPEAKER_00: Nailed it, yeah. 162 00:08:04,000 - > 00:08:08,000 So this 80-20 principle, as I said, is something that is 163 00:08:08,000 - > 00:08:09,920 happening in in everything. 164 00:08:10,079 - > 00:08:13,920 But if we just look at business, and I'm talking about clients, 165 00:08:14,000 - > 00:08:15,759 because that's all that we care about, right? 166 00:08:16,240 - > 00:08:20,399 The um the Pareto principle basically says 20% of your 167 00:08:20,399 - > 00:08:24,000 clients are generating 80% of your value. 168 00:08:24,399 - > 00:08:27,920 You and this whole process is about determining what a 169 00:08:27,920 - > 00:08:33,120 specific business's value is, and 80% of them are generating 170 00:08:33,120 - > 00:08:34,559 20% of your value. 171 00:08:34,639 - > 00:08:34,960 SPEAKER_02: Yeah. 172 00:08:35,200 - > 00:08:39,440 SPEAKER_00: So 80% of them are taking up um 80% of your effort 173 00:08:39,519 - > 00:08:43,519 of the of the company's resources and time and effort, 174 00:08:43,679 - > 00:08:45,600 but you're only getting 20% out of them. 175 00:08:45,759 - > 00:08:49,440 So it's that beautiful sweet spot of the 20% that is 176 00:08:49,440 - > 00:08:54,879 generating exponentially large or uh a disproportionately large 177 00:08:54,960 - > 00:08:57,039 um amount of value for the business. 178 00:08:57,200 - > 00:08:57,440 SPEAKER_01: Yeah. 179 00:08:57,600 - > 00:08:59,519 So is there an ideal percentage, Dan? 180 00:08:59,600 - > 00:09:02,000 Like you don't want to get rid of the 80 completely, maybe it's 181 00:09:02,000 - > 00:09:03,679 50-50 or something like that. 182 00:09:03,840 - > 00:09:06,720 What's the what's the goal that SaaS companies should have? 183 00:09:06,960 - > 00:09:08,799 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that's actually a good question too. 184 00:09:08,879 - > 00:09:12,559 So I always talk about 80-20, but in actual fact, sometimes 185 00:09:12,559 - > 00:09:17,759 the 20 is, I don't know, 18% or um 19 or 23. 186 00:09:18,000 - > 00:09:21,759 It's not specifically always 20, but it's typically around close. 187 00:09:22,080 - > 00:09:22,960 That, yeah. 188 00:09:23,360 - > 00:09:26,240 Um yeah, but uh then the question is, you know, what do 189 00:09:26,240 - > 00:09:26,879 you do with the 80%? 190 00:09:27,200 - > 00:09:30,399 So that's uh really it's a tough one. 191 00:09:30,559 - > 00:09:34,960 So all these um other books basically say get rid of your 192 00:09:34,960 - > 00:09:35,279 80%. 193 00:09:35,759 - > 00:09:36,080 Yeah. 194 00:09:36,320 - > 00:09:40,720 Which in a SaaS business is not that easy to do, right? 195 00:09:40,879 - > 00:09:46,480 So you've I I in the book I I come up with three three options 196 00:09:46,480 - > 00:09:47,519 that you can look at. 197 00:09:47,600 - > 00:09:52,720 Um so the first is to have a look at um is to focus on the 198 00:09:52,720 - > 00:09:53,039 20%. 199 00:09:53,600 - > 00:09:58,559 So the process is you go through um the software or the the book 200 00:09:58,639 - > 00:10:00,799 and and go through a process up to 20%. 201 00:10:01,600 - > 00:10:04,799 And the next step's the most important step, which is putting 202 00:10:04,799 - > 00:10:09,440 a growth strategy together to deeply understand that 20%, find 203 00:10:09,440 - > 00:10:12,720 out what similarities there are in that 20%, find the buyer 204 00:10:12,879 - > 00:10:18,240 personas, and then put a growth strategy together to laser focus 205 00:10:18,399 - > 00:10:19,919 and target those 20%. 206 00:10:20,320 - > 00:10:21,600 So you just get more of them. 207 00:10:21,919 - > 00:10:23,600 And that's the most important bit, right? 208 00:10:23,679 - > 00:10:28,080 So the net new growth is part of the 20%, so you're getting, and 209 00:10:28,080 - > 00:10:29,919 that's how you get your exponential growth. 210 00:10:30,159 - > 00:10:32,720 But then the, you know, what do you do with the 80%, right? 211 00:10:32,799 - > 00:10:36,159 Well, in the in the first option, it's just about focusing 212 00:10:36,159 - > 00:10:39,759 and getting more of the 20%, and then over time something happens 213 00:10:39,759 - > 00:10:40,399 to the 80%. 214 00:10:41,759 - > 00:10:45,919 The second option is to create a separate business because 215 00:10:46,240 - > 00:10:50,480 there's all these other books are basically saying the 80% are 216 00:10:50,480 - > 00:10:53,600 draining, are taking away resources, and you don't have 217 00:10:53,600 - > 00:10:58,720 the capability to focus properly and give the 20% the attention 218 00:10:58,720 - > 00:10:59,759 they deserve. 219 00:11:00,080 - > 00:11:04,000 So you actually do need to somehow separate them out. 220 00:11:04,159 - > 00:11:09,919 So maybe a separate business unit, separate um uh structure 221 00:11:09,919 - > 00:11:10,960 as far as staff goes. 222 00:11:11,039 - > 00:11:13,840 Maybe you've got an A team and a B team, for example. 223 00:11:14,159 - > 00:11:18,399 Um, or you might just have different pricing structures for 224 00:11:18,399 - > 00:11:20,799 um your B's versus your A's. 225 00:11:21,039 - > 00:11:25,039 And the third option is you actually do sort of get rid of 226 00:11:25,039 - > 00:11:25,200 them. 227 00:11:25,679 - > 00:11:28,159 When I say get rid of them, it's not a matter of um they're 228 00:11:28,159 - > 00:11:29,759 saying bye-bye straight away. 229 00:11:29,919 - > 00:11:32,720 It's a matter of going, these guys are actually costing us 230 00:11:32,720 - > 00:11:36,399 more, and putting a pricing structure in place so that they 231 00:11:36,399 - > 00:11:40,399 see that, or putting resources, as I said, in place to see that. 232 00:11:40,720 - > 00:11:43,759 So you two eventually remove them from the business. 233 00:11:44,000 - > 00:11:44,320 SPEAKER_01: Yeah. 234 00:11:44,639 - > 00:11:47,759 And silly, I I completely get how this would work for a 235 00:11:47,759 - > 00:11:51,440 services business because you can kind of identify who's 236 00:11:51,440 - > 00:11:54,720 paying you the most and who's taking up the most of your time. 237 00:11:54,879 - > 00:11:58,159 So it's more kind of like on an hourly or a time basis. 238 00:11:58,320 - > 00:12:02,799 But with SaaS businesses, how do you identify that 20? 239 00:12:02,960 - > 00:12:06,080 Like it's because most SaaS businesses have subscriptions, 240 00:12:06,159 - > 00:12:08,480 they have the customer success teams. 241 00:12:08,799 - > 00:12:12,399 How can they go about identifying who their 20 is? 242 00:12:12,639 - > 00:12:15,600 SPEAKER_00: And that's actually the most important part to the 243 00:12:15,600 - > 00:12:17,200 whole strategy. 244 00:12:17,679 - > 00:12:20,960 It's uh and this is where you do things a little differently, 245 00:12:21,039 - > 00:12:22,639 it's a little disruptive. 246 00:12:22,960 - > 00:12:26,159 It's about saying, what's the business's North Star? 247 00:12:26,960 - > 00:12:28,720 What are the business's goals? 248 00:12:28,960 - > 00:12:33,919 And creating criteria from the business's goals, and then 249 00:12:34,159 - > 00:12:38,159 finding clients that meet those criteria. 250 00:12:38,559 - > 00:12:42,159 Sorry, it's not finding clients, then it's then putting the 251 00:12:42,159 - > 00:12:45,759 criteria against all the clients, weighting that 252 00:12:45,759 - > 00:12:50,320 criteria, and literally scoring the clients and coming up with 253 00:12:50,320 - > 00:12:50,480 it. 254 00:12:50,639 - > 00:12:55,440 So, look, if the business wants to IPO, their criteria is going 255 00:12:55,440 - > 00:13:01,600 to be around um steady, predictable revenue, um, growth 256 00:13:01,600 - > 00:13:06,320 potential, maybe profitability, maybe low-cost assert, not 257 00:13:06,320 - > 00:13:07,120 necessarily. 258 00:13:07,279 - > 00:13:12,000 Um, whereas if the business wants market dominance, then 259 00:13:12,240 - > 00:13:17,840 their criteria is going to be revenue and net new and you 260 00:13:17,840 - > 00:13:20,000 know, very different criteria. 261 00:13:20,320 - > 00:13:25,679 So you actually create the criteria from the the business 262 00:13:25,679 - > 00:13:30,159 goals, put them into metrics, industry standard metrics, and 263 00:13:30,159 - > 00:13:32,240 look, SaaS companies do that well, right? 264 00:13:32,399 - > 00:13:36,639 SAS companies have got customer acquisition cost, um, customer 265 00:13:36,639 - > 00:13:39,440 lifetime value, customer profit, you name it, they have got 266 00:13:39,440 - > 00:13:39,919 metrics. 267 00:13:40,000 - > 00:13:41,679 They have nailed metrics. 268 00:13:41,840 - > 00:13:44,559 I mean, a lot of customers I've talked to, I talk about metrics, 269 00:13:44,639 - > 00:13:47,519 and they're like, oh, what's customer lifetime profit? 270 00:13:47,679 - > 00:13:49,440 What's customer lifetime value? 271 00:13:49,679 - > 00:13:54,320 Um, but yeah, the one thing SaaS companies do well is metrics, 272 00:13:54,399 - > 00:13:56,320 but they do it at the top level. 273 00:13:56,399 - > 00:13:58,159 They don't do it at the customer level. 274 00:13:58,399 - > 00:14:03,759 So they can't see what customer lifetime profit is per customer. 275 00:14:03,919 - > 00:14:07,759 They'll know it for the company and they'll judge company 276 00:14:07,759 - > 00:14:11,360 performance at the top end, but they won't put it to the 277 00:14:11,360 - > 00:14:12,080 customer level. 278 00:14:12,159 - > 00:14:14,639 So all those metrics, you find out what the metrics are, you 279 00:14:14,639 - > 00:14:18,399 align them to your business goals, you then rank your 280 00:14:18,399 - > 00:14:21,919 clients based on those metrics, and that's when you see your 281 00:14:21,919 - > 00:14:22,559 2080s. 282 00:14:22,639 - > 00:14:25,440 So every business is going to have different 80-20s. 283 00:14:25,600 - > 00:14:26,080 Yeah. 284 00:14:26,399 - > 00:14:30,000 SPEAKER_01: And so what would those um ranking criteria be? 285 00:14:30,080 - > 00:14:32,960 Like for example, SaaS, for example, would one of them be 286 00:14:32,960 - > 00:14:37,919 software usage or NPS scores and things that maybe show potential 287 00:14:37,919 - > 00:14:40,320 that they're going to use it more, and therefore you can 288 00:14:40,320 - > 00:14:42,799 upsell, cross-sell, things like that? 289 00:14:43,120 - > 00:14:45,759 SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, they can be, absolutely. 290 00:14:46,080 - > 00:14:48,879 But rather than looking at from the bottom up, we need to look 291 00:14:48,879 - > 00:14:50,240 at it from the top down. 292 00:14:50,480 - > 00:14:53,440 So what is the business trying to achieve? 293 00:14:53,759 - > 00:15:00,879 And then what criteria does that align to as far as the business 294 00:15:00,879 - > 00:15:03,039 goals and then putting them on the client? 295 00:15:03,200 - > 00:15:06,960 Whereas a lot of businesses do it the other way around, and 296 00:15:06,960 - > 00:15:09,600 every division's going to have a different set of criteria. 297 00:15:09,679 - > 00:15:13,519 So your upsell, cross-sell might be something that the sales team 298 00:15:13,519 - > 00:15:14,399 are looking at. 299 00:15:14,639 - > 00:15:17,919 Um, the customer service team will have another set of KPIs. 300 00:15:18,000 - > 00:15:21,519 Everyone's going to have different KPIs, and they're not 301 00:15:21,519 - > 00:15:24,000 actually looking at it from the top down. 302 00:15:24,159 - > 00:15:28,480 Whereas once you create the metrics from the top down and 303 00:15:28,480 - > 00:15:32,480 everyone knows about it, it has amazing ramifications through 304 00:15:32,480 - > 00:15:35,279 the whole business because all of a sudden decisions are 305 00:15:35,279 - > 00:15:37,120 objective, not subjective. 306 00:15:37,360 - > 00:15:40,799 Everyone's got the same metrics and they all know what what 307 00:15:40,799 - > 00:15:44,799 they're doing and and and where they're heading, if you like. 308 00:15:45,200 - > 00:15:45,519 Yeah. 309 00:15:45,840 - > 00:15:46,159 SPEAKER_01: Okay. 310 00:15:47,120 - > 00:15:51,759 Um, you often work with businesses that have plateaued 311 00:15:51,840 - > 00:15:52,799 in their growth. 312 00:15:52,960 - > 00:15:56,480 Um, what are some of the early warning signs that this is going 313 00:15:56,480 - > 00:15:58,480 to start happening with businesses? 314 00:15:58,639 - > 00:16:03,679 Like, what should SaaS companies be looking at to understand why 315 00:16:03,679 - > 00:16:06,080 they're plateauing and how they can get past that? 316 00:16:06,320 - > 00:16:08,000 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, good question. 317 00:16:08,320 - > 00:16:11,759 Um, so I call it the value inflection point. 318 00:16:12,240 - > 00:16:17,279 There's a point in the business where they have gone past scale 319 00:16:17,440 - > 00:16:17,759 up. 320 00:16:17,919 - > 00:16:20,639 And scale up's really important for lots of businesses, right? 321 00:16:20,720 - > 00:16:23,840 You've got lots of different clients coming in, you need to 322 00:16:23,840 - > 00:16:28,559 understand which clients work well with, which clients drain 323 00:16:28,559 - > 00:16:31,679 the business, which clients, you know, which your high value 324 00:16:31,679 - > 00:16:32,799 client, basically. 325 00:16:32,960 - > 00:16:36,000 Um, and then they'll typically get into something like scale 326 00:16:36,159 - > 00:16:36,320 up. 327 00:16:36,399 - > 00:16:39,840 And there's no definition as to what is the right time to 328 00:16:39,840 - > 00:16:43,279 identify your high value clients, but it's typically the 329 00:16:43,279 - > 00:16:46,559 value inflection point when you've had enough experience and 330 00:16:46,559 - > 00:16:47,919 sometimes plateau. 331 00:16:48,080 - > 00:16:51,519 And most of the reason that people plateau um companies 332 00:16:51,519 - > 00:16:56,320 plateau is because they've got these 80% that are draining, 333 00:16:56,559 - > 00:16:56,799 right? 334 00:16:56,960 - > 00:16:59,759 So in the beginning, you are everything's growth and every 335 00:16:59,919 - > 00:17:03,519 and you're bringing in all these clients, and then you start 336 00:17:03,519 - > 00:17:07,119 creating processes to make sure that you're adapting your 337 00:17:07,119 - > 00:17:10,640 business to your clients and the clients are getting what they 338 00:17:10,640 - > 00:17:13,359 need from you, but you've got so many processes and procedures 339 00:17:13,359 - > 00:17:17,920 that you know you're running out of uh bandwidth, and you you 340 00:17:17,920 - > 00:17:23,359 might have burnout or um complications, and there'll be 341 00:17:23,359 - > 00:17:27,039 teams sort of wanting different things at different times, and 342 00:17:27,039 - > 00:17:30,559 there's all sorts of indicators, if you like, in a business that 343 00:17:30,559 - > 00:17:32,640 they've hit their value inflection point. 344 00:17:32,880 - > 00:17:36,880 And look, most businesses never identify their high-value 345 00:17:36,880 - > 00:17:39,599 clients, so they just keep going on and on and on. 346 00:17:39,680 - > 00:17:42,559 So there is no right or wrong time, but there's certainly a 347 00:17:42,559 - > 00:17:43,839 time that it starts. 348 00:17:44,160 - > 00:17:47,279 So, and that the the value inflection inflection point when 349 00:17:47,279 - > 00:17:49,359 they're ready, and that's typically when they're 350 00:17:49,359 - > 00:17:53,119 plateauing and when things when growth is no longer fun. 351 00:17:54,240 - > 00:17:57,519 SPEAKER_01: I'd no, I I think yeah, I think everyone can 352 00:17:57,519 - > 00:17:58,240 relate to this. 353 00:17:59,039 - > 00:18:02,960 Especially, you know, you start SaaS startups, for example, that 354 00:18:03,039 - > 00:18:04,559 they'll take anyone and everyone. 355 00:18:04,720 - > 00:18:08,400 Um, there's no niche, there's no there's not even processes at 356 00:18:08,400 - > 00:18:10,720 the beginning, and then when they get to that scale-up point, 357 00:18:10,799 - > 00:18:14,240 it's all exciting, but then that's when things start to go 358 00:18:14,240 - > 00:18:19,039 wrong, and it it's really hard to get past those um past those 359 00:18:19,279 - > 00:18:20,559 initial numbers. 360 00:18:20,880 - > 00:18:23,519 SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, and this is a perfect way to do that. 361 00:18:23,680 - > 00:18:24,799 Yeah, yeah. 362 00:18:25,039 - > 00:18:28,160 SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, so identifying high value clients, 363 00:18:28,240 - > 00:18:31,440 this sits really well with me because I always have an 364 00:18:31,440 - > 00:18:32,960 account-based marketing approach. 365 00:18:33,039 - > 00:18:33,359 SPEAKER_02: Yeah. 366 00:18:33,519 - > 00:18:35,680 SPEAKER_01: Um, what's your experience with account-based 367 00:18:35,680 - > 00:18:36,000 marketing? 368 00:18:36,240 - > 00:18:39,440 Having worked with a lot of these SaaS enterprises, do you 369 00:18:39,440 - > 00:18:42,559 see that as a core strategy in the organizations? 370 00:18:42,799 - > 00:18:43,359 SPEAKER_00: Yeah. 371 00:18:43,599 - > 00:18:44,880 Um, it's interesting. 372 00:18:45,119 - > 00:18:48,319 I have a focus, I have done a fair bit of work on uh 373 00:18:48,319 - > 00:18:49,440 account-based marketing. 374 00:18:49,519 - > 00:18:52,559 We did these great little packages that were sent to 375 00:18:52,559 - > 00:18:52,799 people. 376 00:18:52,880 - > 00:18:58,000 Um, I was working with a um a SaaS uh learning tool, a 377 00:18:58,559 - > 00:19:00,640 enterprise um learning tool. 378 00:19:00,960 - > 00:19:04,480 And yeah, we created these little packages around learning. 379 00:19:04,559 - > 00:19:09,440 And I remember um we did had these cards that were because 380 00:19:09,440 - > 00:19:14,319 our I um our ideal customer profile was HR and learning, 381 00:19:14,400 - > 00:19:14,640 right? 382 00:19:14,720 - > 00:19:17,839 So it's about feel good, feel feeling good. 383 00:19:18,079 - > 00:19:21,440 So uh I think it was gratitude journal. 384 00:19:21,519 - > 00:19:23,359 It was a bit more than a gratitude journal, actually. 385 00:19:23,440 - > 00:19:26,400 I think it was more around tracking, yeah. 386 00:19:26,480 - > 00:19:27,039 It was tracking. 387 00:19:27,119 - > 00:19:29,200 I we actually created our own book. 388 00:19:29,359 - > 00:19:31,119 It's really cool with good habits on the cards. 389 00:19:32,319 - > 00:19:32,880 Yeah, yeah. 390 00:19:34,000 - > 00:19:37,359 And cards to say how you're feeling today, like feel good 391 00:19:37,519 - > 00:19:38,480 cards and stuff like that. 392 00:19:38,559 - > 00:19:40,000 And we said that's pretty clever. 393 00:19:40,160 - > 00:19:42,880 But yeah, I love account-based marketing, I think it's very 394 00:19:42,880 - > 00:19:43,200 important. 395 00:19:43,680 - > 00:19:46,240 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it sounds like you know, getting 396 00:19:46,400 - > 00:19:48,960 understanding your high-value clients, and then I suppose 397 00:19:49,200 - > 00:19:53,359 going after them, gifting is still very much a core strategy 398 00:19:53,359 - > 00:19:55,200 of account-based marketing. 399 00:19:55,519 - > 00:20:00,640 Um, what are some other marketing strategies, campaigns 400 00:20:00,720 - > 00:20:03,359 tactics um you've seen work really well? 401 00:20:03,599 - > 00:20:06,799 There's been a massive shift, I think, in the B2B consumer, 402 00:20:06,960 - > 00:20:10,480 especially since the pandemic, everyone kind of became, you 403 00:20:10,480 - > 00:20:12,240 know, a digital Avenger. 404 00:20:12,319 - > 00:20:14,720 They kind of did their own research, they didn't need to 405 00:20:14,720 - > 00:20:16,400 speak to sales as much. 406 00:20:16,559 - > 00:20:20,319 Um, so what are you finding in in the last maybe five years has 407 00:20:20,319 - > 00:20:23,680 worked really well for account-based marketing? 408 00:20:23,920 - > 00:20:26,240 For SaaS clients in general. 409 00:20:26,799 - > 00:20:30,880 SPEAKER_00: Uh I actually think the AD20 has worked incredibly 410 00:20:30,880 - > 00:20:31,119 well. 411 00:20:31,200 - > 00:20:32,880 Um, but I'm biased, right? 412 00:20:32,960 - > 00:20:35,839 So I'm very, very focused on that at the moment. 413 00:20:36,319 - > 00:20:42,960 Um it's it's about doing more with or doing less and getting 414 00:20:42,960 - > 00:20:43,200 more. 415 00:20:43,440 - > 00:20:49,119 And I think now in in times of uncertainty, like, you know, God 416 00:20:49,119 - > 00:20:51,279 knows what's gonna happen to the economy right now. 417 00:20:51,519 - > 00:20:54,799 Most people are uh actually very concerned about their businesses 418 00:20:54,799 - > 00:20:56,400 and the uncertainty that that brings. 419 00:20:56,480 - > 00:21:00,480 And there's so many things that are are driving that, you know. 420 00:21:00,559 - > 00:21:04,799 AI is driving it, uh, the war is driving it, and the impending 421 00:21:04,799 - > 00:21:07,359 recession that we're probably gonna have anyway, plus the war 422 00:21:07,359 - > 00:21:09,759 is like we're gonna get stagflation. 423 00:21:10,240 - > 00:21:12,880 It's it's it's a really full-on. 424 00:21:13,839 - > 00:21:18,880 Um, and that's where you really need to have a look at what are 425 00:21:18,880 - > 00:21:22,960 your costs and where are your resources going that are not 426 00:21:22,960 - > 00:21:29,759 being utilized efficiently, and having an objective way to agree 427 00:21:30,400 - > 00:21:34,640 that these costs uh need to be cut, and these resources need to 428 00:21:34,640 - > 00:21:38,160 be cut, and how do we get more with less? 429 00:21:38,400 - > 00:21:40,079 So, yeah, I just come back to it. 430 00:21:40,240 - > 00:21:41,680 It goes back to the 8020 rules. 431 00:21:42,240 - > 00:21:44,720 SPEAKER_01: It makes a lot of sense because you know, and 432 00:21:44,720 - > 00:21:46,880 especially as you mentioned, AI. 433 00:21:47,279 - > 00:21:52,799 Um AI can now take over quite a bit of the work that needs to be 434 00:21:52,799 - > 00:21:53,200 done. 435 00:21:53,519 - > 00:21:59,200 Um so again, yeah, I've tell us about your usage with AI. 436 00:21:59,279 - > 00:22:00,720 Is that something You've embraced? 437 00:22:00,799 - > 00:22:02,319 Is it something you're concerned about? 438 00:22:02,480 - > 00:22:05,519 It's what's um your experience with AI. 439 00:22:05,599 - > 00:22:07,359 And does your software use it as well? 440 00:22:07,599 - > 00:22:08,480 SPEAKER_00: Yes, it does. 441 00:22:08,640 - > 00:22:09,440 Absolutely. 442 00:22:09,759 - > 00:22:12,319 I am an advocate of AI. 443 00:22:12,880 - > 00:22:15,920 And mainly because I am a strategist rather than a 444 00:22:15,920 - > 00:22:16,480 tactician. 445 00:22:16,640 - > 00:22:20,720 And so I really like, I feel like I've got my own assistant. 446 00:22:20,960 - > 00:22:24,880 I literally, you know, bounce ideas off, you know, this is I 447 00:22:24,880 - > 00:22:27,440 had these little bits just expand this out. 448 00:22:27,599 - > 00:22:33,599 Or um, so yeah, I I think AI is very helpful, but I also see 449 00:22:33,599 - > 00:22:35,680 some of the concerns. 450 00:22:35,839 - > 00:22:38,559 Um, what happens when it you know becomes sentient? 451 00:22:38,640 - > 00:22:42,400 And you know, there are so many what ifs, what ifs, what ifs on 452 00:22:42,400 - > 00:22:43,039 AI. 453 00:22:43,359 - > 00:22:46,799 Um, however, if you know we're gonna hit a recession and we're 454 00:22:46,799 - > 00:22:51,839 gonna have problems with um sourcing um computing, it might 455 00:22:51,839 - > 00:22:52,640 be short-lived. 456 00:22:52,880 - > 00:22:54,240 SPEAKER_01: That's what I was thinking. 457 00:22:54,400 - > 00:22:57,920 Um, yeah, it just feels like there's a massive hype of it at 458 00:22:57,920 - > 00:22:58,319 the moment. 459 00:22:58,480 - > 00:22:59,200 Fair enough. 460 00:22:59,359 - > 00:23:03,359 I I'm probably one of those people, but I I also heard, you 461 00:23:03,359 - > 00:23:05,119 know, the energy shortage and and all that. 462 00:23:05,200 - > 00:23:07,039 So it's it's interesting where he's gonna head. 463 00:23:07,279 - > 00:23:08,160 Where do you pivoted? 464 00:23:09,200 - > 00:23:11,200 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what do you think is gonna happen? 465 00:23:11,440 - > 00:23:12,480 SPEAKER_01: I have no idea. 466 00:23:13,119 - > 00:23:15,759 I um I'm kind of on the fence. 467 00:23:15,839 - > 00:23:20,160 I kind of go between different scenarios, but um just I think 468 00:23:20,160 - > 00:23:22,799 as long as you're agile and you're prepared, that's all you 469 00:23:22,799 - > 00:23:23,279 need to be. 470 00:23:23,440 - > 00:23:24,400 Just you know. 471 00:23:24,640 - > 00:23:25,440 That's so true. 472 00:23:25,759 - > 00:23:26,960 Just back yourself. 473 00:23:27,200 - > 00:23:32,720 Um speaking your software, tell us a bit more about why you 474 00:23:32,720 - > 00:23:35,759 developed it, what it does, how does it complement the book? 475 00:23:36,000 - > 00:23:37,680 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, good question. 476 00:23:38,000 - > 00:23:42,720 So I actually um wrote the software first because I looked 477 00:23:42,720 - > 00:23:45,920 at how much uh data was actually required. 478 00:23:46,160 - > 00:23:50,319 Because um in order to do this properly, you actually have to 479 00:23:50,319 - > 00:23:54,079 hook into a whole heap of different um systems, you know, 480 00:23:54,319 - > 00:23:58,319 help desk systems and billing systems and accounting systems, 481 00:23:58,559 - > 00:24:03,359 CRM systems, and they're all in in very different formats, um, 482 00:24:03,519 - > 00:24:05,440 and typically not at a customer level. 483 00:24:05,519 - > 00:24:09,279 Again, they're all aggregated up to the company level. 484 00:24:09,359 - > 00:24:13,119 And I'm going, whoa, even if I spreadsheets together to do this 485 00:24:13,200 - > 00:24:14,319 is hard work. 486 00:24:14,559 - > 00:24:17,039 Uh, I need a software tool to do this. 487 00:24:17,119 - > 00:24:20,720 It's much easier and normalize it all to the client level. 488 00:24:20,799 - > 00:24:24,640 And every one of these systems has got different client IDs. 489 00:24:24,799 - > 00:24:27,839 Um, they might not even have it to the client level. 490 00:24:28,079 - > 00:24:32,799 So and need to normalize this on a uh a scale, if you like. 491 00:24:32,960 - > 00:24:37,519 So that's why I went first to the software and developed the 492 00:24:37,519 - > 00:24:40,400 software first, and then I was just gonna release the software, 493 00:24:40,480 - > 00:24:43,599 and that's when I said, you know what, this is a really strange 494 00:24:43,599 - > 00:24:43,920 concept. 495 00:24:44,000 - > 00:24:45,279 Everyone says, What does your software do? 496 00:24:45,359 - > 00:24:46,400 Oh, you know, is it like Trello? 497 00:24:46,640 - > 00:24:49,039 Is it like you know, it's not like anything. 498 00:24:49,279 - > 00:24:53,519 So you can't say most people develop software that is like 499 00:24:53,519 - > 00:24:54,480 something else. 500 00:24:54,720 - > 00:24:55,839 This is like nothing. 501 00:24:56,000 - > 00:24:56,400 SPEAKER_01: Yeah. 502 00:24:56,720 - > 00:24:59,920 SPEAKER_00: So I thought, I probably have to explain it 503 00:24:59,920 - > 00:25:00,960 first in a book. 504 00:25:01,200 - > 00:25:04,720 So that's when I went to the book and wrote the whole concept 505 00:25:04,720 - > 00:25:07,119 around what the software actually does. 506 00:25:07,279 - > 00:25:08,720 Because it's a one-off software. 507 00:25:08,960 - > 00:25:11,920 I mean, it's not something you're gonna run every month. 508 00:25:12,240 - > 00:25:17,279 You run it to find your 20% and you might come back in a few 509 00:25:17,279 - > 00:25:20,079 years or a year, but you know, it's not a month, it's not a 510 00:25:20,079 - > 00:25:21,039 monthly subscription. 511 00:25:21,279 - > 00:25:23,440 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a good thing you've got a marketing 512 00:25:23,440 - > 00:25:27,039 background because you had that idea, like, I need to explain 513 00:25:27,039 - > 00:25:27,680 what this does. 514 00:25:27,759 - > 00:25:31,200 I feel like that's the biggest challenge in B2B SaaS is um 515 00:25:31,359 - > 00:25:34,160 these really clever people invent the software, they're 516 00:25:34,160 - > 00:25:37,680 trying to solve a gap in the market, and then they're like, 517 00:25:37,759 - > 00:25:41,920 oh, okay, um, no one knows how to use it or that it exists. 518 00:25:42,079 - > 00:25:46,480 They kind of miss that whole awareness education piece, um, 519 00:25:46,799 - > 00:25:48,000 which is a big challenge. 520 00:25:48,640 - > 00:25:49,440 You guys come in. 521 00:25:49,680 - > 00:25:51,200 We just yeah, we do our best. 522 00:25:52,880 - > 00:25:58,160 Um, can you apply the 8020 rule to prospects, not just 523 00:25:58,160 - > 00:25:58,640 customers? 524 00:25:58,799 - > 00:26:02,240 I'm just thinking about well, essentially, you know, a lot of 525 00:26:02,240 - > 00:26:05,039 the clients that we work with, if you look at their CRM, 526 00:26:05,119 - > 00:26:07,279 there's thousands of people in there. 527 00:26:07,759 - > 00:26:11,920 And it's really hard discovering who are the ones we should focus 528 00:26:11,920 - > 00:26:13,680 on and who are the ones we shouldn't. 529 00:26:13,839 - > 00:26:17,680 So just like you do it with customers to find out high value 530 00:26:17,680 - > 00:26:22,160 versus low value, can you do it with prospects to find out um, 531 00:26:22,400 - > 00:26:26,160 you know, these are the 20% that can really move the needle and 532 00:26:26,160 - > 00:26:28,799 they'll move across the pipeline sooner than the others. 533 00:26:29,039 - > 00:26:30,559 Is there a way to do that? 534 00:26:30,799 - > 00:26:31,200 SPEAKER_00: Yeah. 535 00:26:31,440 - > 00:26:36,559 So AD20 principle, the Pareto principle, it as I said, it it 536 00:26:36,640 - > 00:26:38,720 it it's it works in life. 537 00:26:38,880 - > 00:26:42,160 There's uh Tim Burris, you know, the four-hour week. 538 00:26:42,400 - > 00:26:44,400 He he based it on AD20. 539 00:26:44,559 - > 00:26:46,960 Although I don't understand, four hours sounds like five 540 00:26:46,960 - > 00:26:48,799 percent, uh 10% to me, not 20%. 541 00:26:49,519 - > 00:26:55,200 But apparently he based it all on the Pareto principle of doing 542 00:26:55,200 - > 00:26:57,119 less and achieving more. 543 00:26:57,279 - > 00:26:59,680 Um, sorry, coming back to your prospects. 544 00:26:59,839 - > 00:27:05,119 So for sure, what once uh an organization has decided what 545 00:27:05,119 - > 00:27:09,440 their criteria are, they it will follow the 80-20 growth 546 00:27:09,440 - > 00:27:13,599 strategy, which is my methodology, um, you would do it 547 00:27:13,599 - > 00:27:17,200 in a in a customer environment, starting with your business uh 548 00:27:17,519 - > 00:27:20,799 goals, then your criteria, then applying it to your clients. 549 00:27:20,880 - > 00:27:24,079 And then once you understand who your clients are, the first and 550 00:27:24,079 - > 00:27:28,319 most important thing you do is use it as a marketing strategy 551 00:27:28,319 - > 00:27:30,160 to bring in your prospects. 552 00:27:30,480 - > 00:27:34,640 So all you all your marketing would do at that point is just 553 00:27:34,640 - > 00:27:37,119 focus on your high value clients or the 20%. 554 00:27:37,519 - > 00:27:40,400 So I call them high value clients, basically the 20%ers. 555 00:27:40,720 - > 00:27:43,680 It's a high value client marketing strategy, and that's 556 00:27:43,839 - > 00:27:45,039 they're your prospects. 557 00:27:45,440 - > 00:27:48,559 But I think you're talking about people that haven't actually 558 00:27:48,559 - > 00:27:51,519 gone through the process of identifying, is that right? 559 00:27:51,680 - > 00:27:54,400 Are you talking about a situation where you haven't 560 00:27:54,400 - > 00:27:56,640 identified who your high value clients are? 561 00:27:56,960 - > 00:27:57,839 SPEAKER_01: Not yet, no. 562 00:27:58,000 - > 00:28:01,440 So very much at yeah, at the prospect stage. 563 00:28:01,680 - > 00:28:05,680 Um thousands of people in the CRM. 564 00:28:05,839 - > 00:28:09,359 Uh maybe we want to host a round table, maybe we want to invite 565 00:28:09,359 - > 00:28:10,000 them to an event. 566 00:28:10,160 - > 00:28:12,880 How would you identify the best ones for that? 567 00:28:13,200 - > 00:28:18,240 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, without actually knowing who your high 568 00:28:18,400 - > 00:28:22,400 value clients are, you can't then put the criteria on an 569 00:28:22,400 - > 00:28:23,039 unknown. 570 00:28:23,279 - > 00:28:27,359 But the Pareto principle says you're gonna get 20% of them 571 00:28:27,359 - > 00:28:29,759 that will give you the 80% value. 572 00:28:30,000 - > 00:28:32,480 But God knows how what the process is to identify. 573 00:28:32,559 - > 00:28:33,839 This is my point, right? 574 00:28:34,079 - > 00:28:38,079 So everyone's written all these books on 8020, and God's 20% in 575 00:28:38,079 - > 00:28:38,880 there, off you go. 576 00:28:39,759 - > 00:28:41,599 But how do you find that 20%? 577 00:28:42,079 - > 00:28:42,960 With the steps. 578 00:28:43,279 - > 00:28:47,359 And I've created a book to find it and a process to to go 579 00:28:47,359 - > 00:28:48,319 through the steps. 580 00:28:48,559 - > 00:28:49,519 SPEAKER_01: What's the book called? 581 00:28:49,599 - > 00:28:50,319 Where can we get it? 582 00:28:50,559 - > 00:28:50,960 You get me. 583 00:28:51,119 - > 00:28:52,160 SPEAKER_00: Oh, I think I've got a company. 584 00:28:52,400 - > 00:28:54,799 Silly me, I should have actually brought it out a lot earlier, 585 00:28:54,880 - > 00:28:55,680 shouldn't I? 586 00:28:55,920 - > 00:29:01,759 Um, so it is the 8020 growth strategy, how to identify high 587 00:29:01,839 - > 00:29:05,039 value clients um for exponential growth at their Cephit. 588 00:29:05,680 - > 00:29:06,640 And Amazon. 589 00:29:06,880 - > 00:29:07,519 Amazon. 590 00:29:07,680 - > 00:29:08,000 SPEAKER_01: Yeah. 591 00:29:08,400 - > 00:29:09,119 Dear only pleased. 592 00:29:10,720 - > 00:29:11,279 Amazing. 593 00:29:11,440 - > 00:29:15,920 And so, without kind of revealing too much from the 594 00:29:15,920 - > 00:29:19,440 book, um, for any SaaS founders and marketers listening right 595 00:29:19,440 - > 00:29:22,559 now, wanting to apply this 8020 framework, wanting to get 596 00:29:22,559 - > 00:29:27,759 started, ASAP, what is the first step that they should take? 597 00:29:28,319 - > 00:29:29,680 Outside of reading your book? 598 00:29:30,079 - > 00:29:30,720 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, cool. 599 00:29:31,039 - > 00:29:31,680 I don't know. 600 00:29:31,920 - > 00:29:38,400 Um, yeah, it is a matter, I it it's not as straightforward as 601 00:29:38,400 - > 00:29:41,279 everyone says just identifying you know the 20%. 602 00:29:41,680 - > 00:29:42,000 Yeah. 603 00:29:42,240 - > 00:29:45,839 But I would say, yeah, contact me, we can talk through it. 604 00:29:46,079 - > 00:29:51,359 Um the if you didn't want to read the book, then go through 605 00:29:51,359 - > 00:29:53,200 the whole software process. 606 00:29:53,519 - > 00:29:57,119 And that is a really good way to find out. 607 00:29:57,359 - > 00:30:00,000 But it's a matter of understanding your business as 608 00:30:00,000 - > 00:30:04,079 an all-star, being very clear on what those business goals are, 609 00:30:04,319 - > 00:30:09,599 and then we can work together to identify the criteria. 610 00:30:09,759 - > 00:30:11,519 So the criteria are key, right? 611 00:30:11,599 - > 00:30:16,319 You because that's the basis on which everything else then flows 612 00:30:16,319 - > 00:30:16,559 from. 613 00:30:16,720 - > 00:30:18,799 So you need to get the criteria right. 614 00:30:20,319 - > 00:30:24,960 I think one of the things that is a bit of a bonus, if you 615 00:30:24,960 - > 00:30:30,400 like, in the whole process is how once you start applying it, 616 00:30:30,720 - > 00:30:35,200 you realize that everything sort of becomes a lot easier. 617 00:30:35,599 - > 00:30:39,599 The decision making process becomes a lot easier because 618 00:30:39,759 - > 00:30:43,359 everyone you're not having as many arguments because everyone 619 00:30:43,359 - > 00:30:48,240 now knows why you're doing things and it's all everything's 620 00:30:48,240 - > 00:30:51,599 very objective rather than subjective. 621 00:30:51,759 - > 00:30:56,640 Um, sales becomes easier because marketing has got a 622 00:30:56,960 - > 00:31:02,559 laser-focused strategy on those clients who value the business 623 00:31:02,880 - > 00:31:04,160 more than the 80%. 624 00:31:04,559 - > 00:31:06,079 That's the other bonus, right? 625 00:31:06,319 - > 00:31:10,720 So the 20% care about your differentiators, they care about 626 00:31:10,720 - > 00:31:15,200 your unique selling points, and they want to be heard and they 627 00:31:15,200 - > 00:31:16,640 want to be treated well. 628 00:31:16,960 - > 00:31:19,759 So sales cycles start reducing. 629 00:31:20,000 - > 00:31:25,440 Um, and they the conversations become a whole heap of easier. 630 00:31:25,599 - > 00:31:28,640 There's not as much objection handling and all that sort of 631 00:31:28,640 - > 00:31:28,880 stuff. 632 00:31:28,960 - > 00:31:30,480 SPEAKER_01: So, yes, it's just smooth. 633 00:31:30,720 - > 00:31:33,200 Actually, I was just thinking that as you were saying, um, one 634 00:31:33,200 - > 00:31:35,920 thing that we always say is an advantage of account-based 635 00:31:35,920 - > 00:31:38,799 marketing is that you get sales and marketing alignment. 636 00:31:39,039 - > 00:31:41,759 Because usually you'll go into an office and you're kind of 637 00:31:41,759 - > 00:31:44,480 shocked, you've got sales sitting over here, marketing 638 00:31:44,480 - > 00:31:46,400 over there, and they're not talking to each other, and 639 00:31:46,400 - > 00:31:50,000 they've got that whole, you know, lead, marketing qualified 640 00:31:50,079 - > 00:31:53,200 lead model, and sales is like, no, they're terrible. 641 00:31:53,359 - > 00:31:56,799 Um, but with the 8020 framework and account-based marketing, 642 00:31:56,960 - > 00:32:00,720 they're working together to identify exactly who those are. 643 00:32:00,960 - > 00:32:03,759 And then, you know, when they start working together, that's 644 00:32:03,759 - > 00:32:04,960 when the magic happens. 645 00:32:05,119 - > 00:32:06,480 So yeah, true. 646 00:32:07,759 - > 00:32:10,160 SPEAKER_00: I have a uh a content workshop that I go 647 00:32:10,160 - > 00:32:13,920 through after we um identify the buyer personas, and the key 648 00:32:13,920 - > 00:32:16,720 people that need to attend that content workshop are sales. 649 00:32:16,960 - > 00:32:20,559 And it's amazing, you know, the whole idea is you want you um 650 00:32:20,799 - > 00:32:24,240 put down pain questions and objections that the salespeople 651 00:32:24,240 - > 00:32:27,359 come up with, and we figure out content that answers all those 652 00:32:27,359 - > 00:32:27,839 questions. 653 00:32:28,079 - > 00:32:31,039 And everyone's singing from the same pin book at the end of it, 654 00:32:31,279 - > 00:32:34,000 so they are completely aligned. 655 00:32:34,240 - > 00:32:37,759 It's it makes such a difference, and account-based marketing is a 656 00:32:37,759 - > 00:32:40,240 very good example of of how that can be aligned. 657 00:32:40,400 - > 00:32:40,640 SPEAKER_01: Yeah. 658 00:32:40,880 - > 00:32:41,200 I agree. 659 00:32:41,279 - > 00:32:45,039 I love inviting the sales team to these workshops because they 660 00:32:45,039 - > 00:32:48,319 have knowledge that's just it's not online, it doesn't exist. 661 00:32:48,400 - > 00:32:51,599 You can only get it from talking to people day to day. 662 00:32:51,839 - > 00:32:54,880 And same with customer success teams, like they deal with all 663 00:32:54,880 - > 00:32:57,680 the actual problems and the problems of the software and 664 00:32:57,680 - > 00:32:58,079 everything. 665 00:32:58,160 - > 00:33:01,519 So they can tell you like these clients are gonna be calling us 666 00:33:01,519 - > 00:33:05,200 every five minutes, or these are the clients that we want to work 667 00:33:05,200 - > 00:33:07,759 with because they seem to get it, they've they've got a 668 00:33:07,759 - > 00:33:10,319 process and it's all humming along nicely. 669 00:33:10,480 - > 00:33:11,680 Yeah, yeah. 670 00:33:12,160 - > 00:33:14,319 SPEAKER_00: And I love it because you know, sales is my 671 00:33:14,319 - > 00:33:16,720 background, so I can talk sales speak. 672 00:33:18,799 - > 00:33:20,960 SPEAKER_01: Well, Christine, thank you so much for being on 673 00:33:20,960 - > 00:33:21,279 the show. 674 00:33:21,680 - > 00:33:22,559 I think that's an amazing. 675 00:33:22,720 - > 00:33:24,480 I'm gonna read your book first of all. 676 00:33:24,799 - > 00:33:28,400 And then um, yeah, I definitely want to dive deep down into this 677 00:33:28,400 - > 00:33:31,680 8020 framework, especially with the times ahead of us. 678 00:33:31,839 - > 00:33:34,880 I think it's important we all hunker down and get a really 679 00:33:34,880 - > 00:33:38,559 good strategy behind us that will allow us to play the long 680 00:33:38,559 - > 00:33:38,799 game. 681 00:33:38,960 - > 00:33:40,400 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's fantastic. 682 00:33:40,480 - > 00:33:41,519 It's been an absolute pleasure. 683 00:33:41,599 - > 00:33:42,640 Thank you for having me. 684 00:33:42,960 - > 00:33:43,680 Anytime.