The Human Edge in an AI World with Nik Froehlich, CEO of Saritasa

1 00:00:00,080 - > 00:00:02,479 SPEAKER_01: Well, I knew that every business would have to 2 00:00:02,479 - > 00:00:04,400 embrace technology at one point. 3 00:00:04,559 - > 00:00:06,240 You know, industry by industry. 4 00:00:06,480 - > 00:00:09,039 The first one that I think was affected the biggest was the 5 00:00:09,039 - > 00:00:09,839 travel agency. 6 00:00:10,000 - > 00:00:12,320 I mean, they just overnight they were gone. 7 00:00:12,560 - > 00:00:14,960 I mean, before that, you'd have to call a travel agent. 8 00:00:15,039 - > 00:00:17,120 That's the only way to get a ticket anywhere, right? 9 00:00:17,440 - > 00:00:20,480 SPEAKER_00: I started my career in Drupal ads and at the time it 10 00:00:20,480 - > 00:00:23,920 was being two dollars per click and we were delivering multiple 11 00:00:24,160 - > 00:00:26,320 leads per week to all the clients. 12 00:00:26,399 - > 00:00:27,199 It was so easy. 13 00:00:27,280 - > 00:00:28,879 It was such a game changer. 14 00:00:29,039 - > 00:00:32,640 Um, having come from the world of TV media where you know you'd 15 00:00:32,640 - > 00:00:37,520 pay$50,000 for a prime time ad and we hope the right people saw 16 00:00:37,520 - > 00:00:37,840 that. 17 00:00:38,799 - > 00:00:41,520 Welcome everyone to another episode of SAS Stories. 18 00:00:41,600 - > 00:00:45,119 Today I'm joined all the way from California by Nick Crowley, 19 00:00:45,439 - > 00:00:47,600 president and CEO of Saritassa. 20 00:00:47,759 - > 00:00:48,479 Welcome, Nick. 21 00:00:48,799 - > 00:00:49,520 SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you. 22 00:00:49,600 - > 00:00:51,280 I'm I'm happy to be here. 23 00:00:51,759 - > 00:00:55,280 SPEAKER_00: Now, pivot moment for you in the world of science. 24 00:00:55,359 - > 00:00:58,719 We we had a conversation before we hit the record button. 25 00:00:58,880 - > 00:01:01,520 You ran a successful construction business for over 26 00:01:01,520 - > 00:01:04,000 20 years before Saritassa. 27 00:01:04,400 - > 00:01:08,719 What was the moment you realized technology, not concrete, was 28 00:01:08,719 - > 00:01:10,159 where you needed to be? 29 00:01:11,120 - > 00:01:12,480 SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah. 30 00:01:12,640 - > 00:01:18,400 Um I I don't think there was a moment necessarily, but um I 31 00:01:18,400 - > 00:01:22,560 used technology in that business because I um I enjoyed 32 00:01:22,560 - > 00:01:23,519 technology. 33 00:01:23,760 - > 00:01:30,400 And um and through that time I've I I people saw other other 34 00:01:30,400 - > 00:01:33,599 people I knew that owned businesses, they saw how I was 35 00:01:33,599 - > 00:01:39,359 using technology and they asked me to um help them um or ask me 36 00:01:39,359 - > 00:01:41,519 what I was doing and and that kind of thing. 37 00:01:41,680 - > 00:01:47,920 And um and um that led me to start to help them um discover 38 00:01:47,920 - > 00:01:48,879 what they needed. 39 00:01:49,120 - > 00:01:53,439 And because I um I could speak the language, I think, to to to 40 00:01:53,680 - > 00:01:56,719 developers, I could I could hire somebody and I could explain to 41 00:01:56,719 - > 00:02:00,079 them very clearly of what what was needed, I could bridge that 42 00:02:00,079 - > 00:02:00,480 gap. 43 00:02:01,519 - > 00:02:05,760 And um I don't think it was my calling to be in that um in the 44 00:02:05,840 - > 00:02:07,920 in the construction business necessarily. 45 00:02:08,080 - > 00:02:09,919 It was it was very successful. 46 00:02:10,400 - > 00:02:16,960 Um but this was a fascinating um uh switch for me because um the 47 00:02:16,960 - > 00:02:20,560 the construction stuff I was doing is more of a commodity and 48 00:02:20,800 - > 00:02:23,520 more people entered the market and it was just getting more 49 00:02:23,520 - > 00:02:25,759 difficult to remain profitable. 50 00:02:26,080 - > 00:02:33,919 And um I I knew that technology was always going to uh um well, 51 00:02:34,159 - > 00:02:37,599 I knew that every business would have to embrace technology at 52 00:02:37,599 - > 00:02:39,919 one point, you know, industry by industry. 53 00:02:40,159 - > 00:02:42,800 The first one that I think was affected, the biggest was the 54 00:02:42,800 - > 00:02:43,599 travel agency. 55 00:02:43,680 - > 00:02:46,080 I mean, they just overnight they were gone. 56 00:02:46,240 - > 00:02:48,639 I mean, before that, you'd have to call a travel agent. 57 00:02:48,719 - > 00:02:51,360 That's the only way to get a ticket anywhere, right? 58 00:02:52,000 - > 00:02:54,000 So I knew that the demand would grow. 59 00:02:54,240 - > 00:02:58,639 So every business, retail eventually would have to utilize 60 00:02:58,639 - > 00:02:59,919 technology, number one. 61 00:03:00,159 - > 00:03:03,360 Number two, I also know that technology would constantly be 62 00:03:03,360 - > 00:03:03,919 changing. 63 00:03:04,080 - > 00:03:08,639 So it wouldn't be very easy for these business owners, which are 64 00:03:08,639 - > 00:03:10,479 really focused on their business. 65 00:03:10,879 - > 00:03:13,759 Um, it would be difficult for them to keep up. 66 00:03:13,919 - > 00:03:20,960 Um and and and they would have to hire uh people or consultants 67 00:03:20,960 - > 00:03:24,879 um to help them navigate, you know, the these new 68 00:03:24,879 - > 00:03:27,919 technologies, like when the iPhone came out, there this the 69 00:03:28,000 - > 00:03:32,240 you know, this retail business is not gonna um hire developers 70 00:03:32,319 - > 00:03:34,319 um to build them an iPhone app, right? 71 00:03:34,479 - > 00:03:39,120 So so now we have um we have a growing market, everybody's 72 00:03:39,120 - > 00:03:40,159 gonna have to use it. 73 00:03:40,319 - > 00:03:43,919 Number two, um, it's constantly gonna be changing, so the 74 00:03:43,919 - > 00:03:45,439 barrier of entry is a little higher. 75 00:03:45,599 - > 00:03:46,879 You have to have experts. 76 00:03:47,439 - > 00:03:54,080 And um and um also that um that there it took a special skill to 77 00:03:54,400 - > 00:03:58,960 understand what you wanted from technology or the efficiencies 78 00:03:59,039 - > 00:04:02,560 or whatever it is, and being able to speak to developers in a 79 00:04:02,560 - > 00:04:03,599 way that they understood. 80 00:04:03,759 - > 00:04:07,039 And I knew that I had all three of those, my 20 years' 81 00:04:07,120 - > 00:04:11,919 experience of um working as a business and sales and and 82 00:04:12,080 - > 00:04:16,319 administrative and processes, I really understood the needs, and 83 00:04:16,560 - > 00:04:19,600 because of my passion for technology, I could speak the 84 00:04:19,600 - > 00:04:24,319 language and um said and and I saw the demand, so I just 85 00:04:24,319 - > 00:04:27,680 started doing that, and um, it turned out to be very fruitful. 86 00:04:27,759 - > 00:04:29,360 There's a lot of demand. 87 00:04:30,160 - > 00:04:31,199 SPEAKER_00: So for sure. 88 00:04:31,439 - > 00:04:31,759 SPEAKER_01: Yeah. 89 00:04:32,399 - > 00:04:34,639 SPEAKER_00: If there's one thing that's uh certain in this world, 90 00:04:34,720 - > 00:04:35,279 it's change. 91 00:04:35,439 - > 00:04:38,240 And I think there's been so much change, especially with 92 00:04:38,240 - > 00:04:41,439 technology, especially in the world of SaaS, and definitely in 93 00:04:41,439 - > 00:04:42,639 recent years as well. 94 00:04:42,879 - > 00:04:46,959 Um, but you started this consulting firm back in 2004 95 00:04:47,040 - > 00:04:48,959 before there was a big SaaS boom. 96 00:04:49,120 - > 00:04:52,319 So when you were speaking to clients back then, what did you 97 00:04:52,319 - > 00:04:55,439 have to convince them of then versus now? 98 00:04:55,600 - > 00:04:57,600 What were the fundamental differences? 99 00:04:58,639 - > 00:04:59,439 SPEAKER_01: Well, you're right. 100 00:04:59,519 - > 00:05:01,120 There was very little SaaS. 101 00:05:01,360 - > 00:05:03,439 Um, it wasn't out there. 102 00:05:03,680 - > 00:05:09,759 Um, you you you you basically you still had to buy um off the 103 00:05:09,839 - > 00:05:11,680 shelf uh products. 104 00:05:12,000 - > 00:05:15,279 Um, you know, even QuickBooks, your accounting. 105 00:05:15,360 - > 00:05:17,439 I'm not even sure if they had it back then, but it was a 106 00:05:17,439 - > 00:05:18,639 downloadable, right? 107 00:05:18,720 - > 00:05:20,560 It wasn't even QuickBooks Online. 108 00:05:21,120 - > 00:05:24,560 Um now accounting software, that's pretty easy because it's 109 00:05:25,040 - > 00:05:26,560 almost the same for everybody. 110 00:05:26,800 - > 00:05:33,519 But um there there weren't products just for um uh that 111 00:05:33,519 - > 00:05:37,839 were specialized for every um business workflow. 112 00:05:38,160 - > 00:05:42,959 And um and so most of the people that came to us initially said, 113 00:05:43,120 - > 00:05:46,079 well, you know, we want to optimize this, or you know, 114 00:05:46,160 - > 00:05:49,120 we're doing this repetitively, or we'd like to store our data 115 00:05:49,199 - > 00:05:51,519 that we can look it up and get rid of the filing cabinet. 116 00:05:51,680 - > 00:05:54,000 Very simple things initially. 117 00:05:54,160 - > 00:05:56,480 Um, so it was all custom. 118 00:05:56,720 - > 00:06:01,120 And um, and it was the early days of software development 119 00:06:01,120 - > 00:06:04,079 where it really started to spring up, where there were more 120 00:06:04,079 - > 00:06:06,240 developers, and you could start doing that. 121 00:06:06,399 - > 00:06:08,639 You could you could start writing custom software. 122 00:06:08,800 - > 00:06:13,120 More languages came out that made it easier to write um um 123 00:06:13,360 - > 00:06:14,480 software. 124 00:06:14,800 - > 00:06:18,720 So um yeah, the early days was is all custom stuff. 125 00:06:18,959 - > 00:06:24,000 There really was no SaaS alternative or or maybe there 126 00:06:24,000 - > 00:06:27,360 were in you know, enterprise or, you know, I'm sure that you know 127 00:06:28,000 - > 00:06:32,720 SAP was out and different ERPs, but those work for large 128 00:06:32,720 - > 00:06:33,600 corporations. 129 00:06:34,560 - > 00:06:35,040 SPEAKER_00: Yeah. 130 00:06:35,519 - > 00:06:38,560 It's so it's so different in the world we live in now, which is 131 00:06:38,560 - > 00:06:41,360 AI, and you know, a lot of players are kind of coming into 132 00:06:41,360 - > 00:06:44,240 it and thinking they can probably do their own custom 133 00:06:44,240 - > 00:06:44,800 code. 134 00:06:45,040 - > 00:06:48,319 How are you finding um the clients that you speak to now? 135 00:06:48,480 - > 00:06:50,319 Is there a completely different need? 136 00:06:50,560 - > 00:06:55,920 Are they uh um doing you know, doing it themselves with AI, or 137 00:06:55,920 - > 00:06:59,600 are they still very much needing help with with custom codes? 138 00:07:00,160 - > 00:07:04,319 SPEAKER_01: Well, AI is very new and the jury's out really where 139 00:07:06,319 - > 00:07:11,680 um you know the where it's going to land exactly. 140 00:07:11,839 - > 00:07:17,199 I do see people experimenting a little bit, um, but it's it's 141 00:07:17,439 - > 00:07:22,800 it's not ready for prime time for our customers types that 142 00:07:23,120 - > 00:07:25,519 really don't know how to architect something. 143 00:07:25,759 - > 00:07:30,560 I mean, the the AI coding stuff has to be used by um really 144 00:07:30,560 - > 00:07:33,839 smart people to create a commercially viable product. 145 00:07:34,000 - > 00:07:37,439 I mean, you could you could spin something up that maybe works, 146 00:07:37,680 - > 00:07:42,480 but that's not going to be commercially viable, scalable, 147 00:07:42,720 - > 00:07:45,839 uh maintainable, uh that type of thing. 148 00:07:46,079 - > 00:07:53,839 So um I don't see a I I I I I see interest of people thinking 149 00:07:53,839 - > 00:07:55,839 that um, you know. 150 00:07:57,360 - > 00:08:02,399 So you know, the question we've been dealing with for the past, 151 00:08:02,560 - > 00:08:04,879 I guess, uh, 10 years mostly. 152 00:08:05,439 - > 00:08:07,439 Um, post iPhone. 153 00:08:07,680 - > 00:08:10,959 I mean, there was that the the mobile app thing was was kind of 154 00:08:10,959 - > 00:08:13,600 crazy when that came out because that was new. 155 00:08:13,759 - > 00:08:15,360 We were very early to the game. 156 00:08:15,519 - > 00:08:18,480 That's not a SaaS product, that's always a custom build. 157 00:08:18,800 - > 00:08:24,160 And but but you know, that you know, people still build those. 158 00:08:24,399 - > 00:08:30,000 Um but um, you know, we dealt a lot with the uh, you know, build 159 00:08:30,000 - > 00:08:33,840 it custom or um use a SaaS product. 160 00:08:33,919 - > 00:08:35,600 And we still get that a lot. 161 00:08:35,840 - > 00:08:39,360 You know, they come to us and and and you know, which which do 162 00:08:39,360 - > 00:08:39,840 we do? 163 00:08:40,000 - > 00:08:43,679 Uh the AI, um it's still pieced together. 164 00:08:43,759 - > 00:08:47,840 I don't think I don't think nobody's no, I I I I I can't 165 00:08:47,840 - > 00:08:50,879 imagine somebody replacing a SaaS product that does, you 166 00:08:50,879 - > 00:08:54,159 know, a whole CRM and all that by vibe coding something. 167 00:08:54,320 - > 00:08:59,200 That's gonna um I mean even with our development teams, we can't 168 00:08:59,200 - > 00:09:02,639 do that without I mean, you can have a little bit of 169 00:09:02,639 - > 00:09:03,759 productivity increases. 170 00:09:03,840 - > 00:09:07,120 Maybe documentation would be easier, maybe some QA would be 171 00:09:07,120 - > 00:09:12,000 easier, but I mean that's nobody's not today anyway. 172 00:09:12,159 - > 00:09:14,639 They're not gonna create their own business processes. 173 00:09:14,799 - > 00:09:19,120 Um so I think I think today it's still um, is there a SaaS 174 00:09:19,120 - > 00:09:21,279 product that fits our needs? 175 00:09:21,679 - > 00:09:23,440 Um, what are the pros and cons? 176 00:09:23,679 - > 00:09:27,759 Or do we build something um tailored to us that takes 177 00:09:27,759 - > 00:09:31,039 advantage of our competitive advantage over somebody else? 178 00:09:31,200 - > 00:09:32,960 And does that make more sense? 179 00:09:33,279 - > 00:09:33,600 SPEAKER_02: Yeah. 180 00:09:33,759 - > 00:09:37,279 SPEAKER_01: Um and then so that that's from that's from the 181 00:09:37,279 - > 00:09:41,200 person using the product on building a SaaS product and 182 00:09:41,200 - > 00:09:43,919 building a business around a SaaS product where you're the 183 00:09:43,919 - > 00:09:47,360 owner, that's a whole different story with with its own pros and 184 00:09:47,360 - > 00:09:47,600 cons. 185 00:09:47,679 - > 00:09:50,960 I can speak to you know either one of those, but they're two 186 00:09:50,960 - > 00:09:54,240 different, completely two different um sides. 187 00:09:54,720 - > 00:09:56,000 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure. 188 00:09:56,240 - > 00:09:57,600 Um, I I agree. 189 00:09:57,759 - > 00:10:00,960 I I don't think AI is quite there yet, especially if you're 190 00:10:00,960 - > 00:10:04,879 working in the world of B2E, providing custom solutions to, 191 00:10:04,960 - > 00:10:06,879 you know, really niche products. 192 00:10:07,039 - > 00:10:12,559 Um, let's just say, for example, clients that I work with will 193 00:10:12,559 - > 00:10:15,440 create like a simulation SAS around the world of mining, 194 00:10:15,600 - > 00:10:18,639 underground mining, where they kind of go in and figure out, 195 00:10:18,720 - > 00:10:22,000 you know, how profitable is this project going to be. 196 00:10:22,159 - > 00:10:25,360 Um it really does require the expertise, the industry 197 00:10:25,360 - > 00:10:26,720 experience, you know, all of that. 198 00:10:26,799 - > 00:10:31,600 And yes, AI can help uh with productivity, but I just don't 199 00:10:31,600 - > 00:10:34,879 see you know someone without that experience doing that. 200 00:10:35,120 - > 00:10:37,360 I think the other issue would be security, right? 201 00:10:37,519 - > 00:10:38,240 ISO. 202 00:10:38,399 - > 00:10:43,679 I don't think you know your average coder using AI would 203 00:10:43,679 - > 00:10:49,120 know um the nuances of keeping data secured as another example. 204 00:10:51,759 - > 00:10:55,279 Um coming back to growth mechanics for the business. 205 00:10:55,440 - > 00:10:58,960 So you've you've been in uh sorry tussle for a long time 206 00:10:58,960 - > 00:10:59,120 now. 207 00:10:59,200 - > 00:11:01,759 And I think in the early days, there was definitely a need for 208 00:11:01,759 - > 00:11:02,799 that custom code. 209 00:11:02,879 - > 00:11:06,240 But as time went by, you probably found yourself having a 210 00:11:06,240 - > 00:11:09,120 lot more competitors um over time. 211 00:11:09,440 - > 00:11:14,080 So I'm curious, you've grown offices in multiple US cities. 212 00:11:14,559 - > 00:11:16,399 What led to that expansion? 213 00:11:16,559 - > 00:11:17,919 Was it market led? 214 00:11:18,080 - > 00:11:18,879 Was it client-led? 215 00:11:19,200 - > 00:11:20,240 Was it sales led? 216 00:11:20,399 - > 00:11:24,480 What was your scaling strategy that really helped you take off 217 00:11:24,559 - > 00:11:25,759 in business? 218 00:11:34,720 - > 00:11:39,360 SPEAKER_01: Um prior to COVID, um, we had an office in Newport 219 00:11:39,519 - > 00:11:41,120 Beach, uh, California. 220 00:11:41,519 - > 00:11:46,960 And um every single deal we did, every single client would come 221 00:11:46,960 - > 00:11:48,000 into our office. 222 00:11:48,240 - > 00:11:54,480 We had one, two, three, four um conference rooms where clients 223 00:11:54,480 - > 00:11:54,960 would come in. 224 00:11:55,120 - > 00:11:58,559 We spent money on a really nice office so they could see that 225 00:11:58,639 - > 00:12:03,919 you know, we're not we're not a small little um uh shop where, 226 00:12:04,000 - > 00:12:08,240 you know, we wanted to appeal to the right size customer for us. 227 00:12:09,039 - > 00:12:13,519 Um and um everybody wanted their developer to be local. 228 00:12:13,679 - > 00:12:14,879 That was a requirement. 229 00:12:15,039 - > 00:12:17,360 I couldn't, I couldn't get a deal. 230 00:12:17,519 - > 00:12:21,600 I mean, even even as far as Los Angeles, which is a 45-minute 231 00:12:21,600 - > 00:12:25,279 drive north or San Diego, you know, we tried to attract 232 00:12:25,279 - > 00:12:28,399 clients um from that, and that was just too difficult. 233 00:12:28,480 - > 00:12:30,240 It's too far away, right? 234 00:12:30,960 - > 00:12:37,759 Um so uh we did want to grow, and we um prior to COVID, we 235 00:12:37,759 - > 00:12:40,960 said, okay, let's use the same model, everything, and let's 236 00:12:40,960 - > 00:12:43,519 pick a big place, let's go to New York. 237 00:12:44,080 - > 00:12:49,440 So we um I took uh you know my best sales rep, my best uh uh 238 00:12:50,080 - > 00:12:55,360 tech engineer or the um sales engineer, um, project manager, 239 00:12:55,519 - > 00:12:58,080 and uh we got an office out there. 240 00:12:58,159 - > 00:13:02,240 Uh, I think we started with five people, and the customers again, 241 00:13:02,399 - > 00:13:04,080 they would come to the office. 242 00:13:04,320 - > 00:13:07,360 Um and it we we were building that business. 243 00:13:07,440 - > 00:13:11,200 It was it was going pretty well, so we were just modeling after 244 00:13:11,200 - > 00:13:11,440 that. 245 00:13:11,679 - > 00:13:15,840 Um, and we actually opened one in Chicago. 246 00:13:16,399 - > 00:13:20,240 Um we a smaller, just a couple people, but same model. 247 00:13:20,320 - > 00:13:22,559 So we said, okay, this is how we're gonna grow. 248 00:13:22,879 - > 00:13:28,720 Well, um, COVID changed things a lot, and we all learned very 249 00:13:28,799 - > 00:13:30,879 quickly how to use video. 250 00:13:31,120 - > 00:13:32,720 My sales reps hated it. 251 00:13:32,799 - > 00:13:35,919 I mean, they just like, I can't sell over this, right? 252 00:13:36,000 - > 00:13:40,240 And we had to create rules, and I mean, it was early days, 253 00:13:40,480 - > 00:13:40,720 right? 254 00:13:40,960 - > 00:13:43,840 And um, but something happened. 255 00:13:44,080 - > 00:13:52,320 Um the it opened up a market for us because I can meet with a CEO 256 00:13:52,320 - > 00:13:55,279 of a company, a mid-sized company, and he's sitting in his 257 00:13:55,279 - > 00:13:59,200 ranch, you know, with his deer antler um thing and his gun back 258 00:13:59,200 - > 00:14:02,720 there and his thing, and and he's at home talking, and we can 259 00:14:02,720 - > 00:14:04,960 have our team on there, and it didn't matter. 260 00:14:05,120 - > 00:14:08,159 It all of a sudden it just opened the door for us. 261 00:14:08,399 - > 00:14:12,799 And um we didn't need to keep all those offices, those 262 00:14:12,799 - > 00:14:14,960 physical locations open. 263 00:14:15,200 - > 00:14:18,639 And uh a few of our employees, they they wanted to relocate, 264 00:14:18,799 - > 00:14:21,840 you know, someplace where uh they could afford things a 265 00:14:21,840 - > 00:14:22,799 little easier. 266 00:14:23,039 - > 00:14:25,600 And um, so I think that's what did it. 267 00:14:25,679 - > 00:14:29,840 It it um it it turned out to be good for us. 268 00:14:29,919 - > 00:14:35,120 And then in addition to that, I think in 21 and 22, there was a 269 00:14:35,120 - > 00:14:40,799 um um a surge in in um demand for software, custom software. 270 00:14:40,960 - > 00:14:45,440 And I think covet drove that too, because they had to 271 00:14:45,440 - > 00:14:49,679 facilitate people working from home on the computer and and 272 00:14:49,679 - > 00:14:50,240 having all this. 273 00:14:50,320 - > 00:14:51,759 I mean, they had to do something. 274 00:14:51,919 - > 00:14:57,919 So we saw a big surge in in modernization during 2001 and 22 275 00:14:58,080 - > 00:14:59,200 and 22. 276 00:14:59,360 - > 00:15:01,279 So I think those things all combined it. 277 00:15:01,360 - > 00:15:05,840 Um so I'd like to say that it was something else, but that's 278 00:15:06,080 - > 00:15:07,759 kind of what did it be. 279 00:15:08,000 - > 00:15:10,960 SPEAKER_00: Just uh good time in the market, I suppose. 280 00:15:11,039 - > 00:15:12,399 I I too remember those days. 281 00:15:12,480 - > 00:15:15,200 They were good for software, everyone was going online. 282 00:15:15,679 - > 00:15:19,759 It was so normal to be on Zoom calls, team calls, webinars. 283 00:15:20,000 - > 00:15:23,919 Um I do feel like we're a little bit exhausted from that at the 284 00:15:23,919 - > 00:15:24,320 moment, though. 285 00:15:24,480 - > 00:15:28,159 Do you find that human interaction and in-person events 286 00:15:28,240 - > 00:15:31,679 and maybe coming to an office for a client is becoming a bit 287 00:15:31,679 - > 00:15:33,120 more valuable again? 288 00:15:33,600 - > 00:15:35,440 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm seeing it more and more. 289 00:15:35,519 - > 00:15:38,159 We we have two offices now. 290 00:15:38,240 - > 00:15:42,000 Um, our original one in Newport, we've downsized, it's not as big 291 00:15:42,000 - > 00:15:42,639 anymore. 292 00:15:42,879 - > 00:15:46,720 And we have one in Tampa, Florida, where we have um people 293 00:15:46,720 - > 00:15:48,240 that come into the office. 294 00:15:48,480 - > 00:15:53,600 Um anybody, most of our most, most of everybody that works for 295 00:15:53,919 - > 00:15:58,720 our company has been here 10 plus years, or at least most of 296 00:15:58,879 - > 00:15:59,519 the people. 297 00:15:59,840 - > 00:16:03,600 Um, and some of them enjoy coming into the office. 298 00:16:03,679 - > 00:16:04,639 They don't want to work at home. 299 00:16:04,720 - > 00:16:05,519 They have kids at home. 300 00:16:05,679 - > 00:16:07,679 I mean, they're they're just regulars there. 301 00:16:07,919 - > 00:16:11,759 They would like everybody to come in because they want more 302 00:16:11,759 - > 00:16:12,480 activity there. 303 00:16:12,639 - > 00:16:15,279 But there's others that have been with me a long time and you 304 00:16:15,279 - > 00:16:18,320 know, they're just as productive at home and they prefer that. 305 00:16:18,480 - > 00:16:19,519 They don't want to come in. 306 00:16:19,679 - > 00:16:23,120 Um, but we're noticing now that um customers are coming in more 307 00:16:23,120 - > 00:16:24,080 often now. 308 00:16:24,399 - > 00:16:26,879 They they're making an effort, they come into the office. 309 00:16:26,960 - > 00:16:29,120 So that's why we have those offices. 310 00:16:29,360 - > 00:16:33,440 Um, and you know, they'll they'll fly out now. 311 00:16:33,600 - > 00:16:36,399 You know, we'll have a customer that wants to see us, they want 312 00:16:36,399 - > 00:16:37,519 to see our operation. 313 00:16:37,679 - > 00:16:40,559 So it's yeah, we're seeing more of that. 314 00:16:41,039 - > 00:16:41,679 SPEAKER_00: Yeah. 315 00:16:41,919 - > 00:16:44,879 And so from a marketing standpoint, it it sounds like 316 00:16:44,879 - > 00:16:48,000 there was obviously a lot of demand and you were just easy to 317 00:16:48,000 - > 00:16:50,960 be found by a lot of these customers, or perhaps it was 318 00:16:50,960 - > 00:16:54,480 sales led where a lot of salespeople were calling up the 319 00:16:54,480 - > 00:16:55,759 right people at the right time. 320 00:16:56,320 - > 00:16:59,759 Are you finding uh things like NCO perhaps worked well? 321 00:16:59,840 - > 00:17:02,799 Like you were ranking up high when people were searching for 322 00:17:02,799 - > 00:17:03,039 you. 323 00:17:03,279 - > 00:17:07,279 And have you noticed that change with now people using uh they 324 00:17:07,519 - > 00:17:11,920 call answer engine optimization as in using AI to find 325 00:17:11,920 - > 00:17:12,480 businesses? 326 00:17:12,640 - > 00:17:14,480 Has that changed anything? 327 00:17:15,039 - > 00:17:18,319 SPEAKER_01: Well, there um it is it is changing. 328 00:17:18,480 - > 00:17:26,799 Um we we relied primarily on on search, um, um SEO and and paid 329 00:17:26,799 - > 00:17:27,440 surge. 330 00:17:27,680 - > 00:17:29,920 And in the early days it was much easier. 331 00:17:30,000 - > 00:17:31,680 There was less competition. 332 00:17:32,000 - > 00:17:36,799 Um it's it's it's expensive now, it's difficult for you know to 333 00:17:36,799 - > 00:17:37,279 make that work. 334 00:17:37,440 - > 00:17:38,880 There's a lot of competitors. 335 00:17:39,039 - > 00:17:45,920 Um we are um um working hard on figuring out you know how you 336 00:17:45,920 - > 00:17:51,839 know when when you ask grok or uh chat GTP, you know, to find 337 00:17:51,839 - > 00:17:54,960 us a developer that does this, that that we show up, you know, 338 00:17:55,039 - > 00:17:57,519 and there's there's you know, our marketing department spends 339 00:17:57,519 - > 00:17:58,400 time doing that. 340 00:17:58,480 - > 00:18:02,160 Uh they really haven't rolled out or we haven't seen it yet, 341 00:18:02,240 - > 00:18:05,359 or not mass rolled out, advertising on those platforms 342 00:18:05,359 - > 00:18:05,519 yet. 343 00:18:05,680 - > 00:18:06,799 I know they're doing it. 344 00:18:07,039 - > 00:18:08,480 I'm starting to do it. 345 00:18:08,640 - > 00:18:11,519 Um, and I I think that's the way it's gonna go. 346 00:18:11,759 - > 00:18:16,079 Um, but again, that's so we track everything that's coming 347 00:18:16,079 - > 00:18:19,680 in, and I see a lot more leads coming in through that. 348 00:18:21,200 - > 00:18:26,480 But um, as far as you know, our our our Google search strategy 349 00:18:26,480 - > 00:18:30,559 is is is very evolved, it's very sophisticated. 350 00:18:30,720 - > 00:18:32,319 We spend a lot on it. 351 00:18:32,480 - > 00:18:36,000 Um, and this is new territory on how to track and stuff. 352 00:18:36,079 - > 00:18:37,920 Every, you know, they're rewriting the rules a little 353 00:18:37,920 - > 00:18:40,079 bit, and and they're going to continue to do so. 354 00:18:40,160 - > 00:18:42,079 So I'm I'm not sure. 355 00:18:42,240 - > 00:18:43,680 It's it's a great question. 356 00:18:44,319 - > 00:18:47,279 I mean, you charted waters a little bit with with with all 357 00:18:47,279 - > 00:18:49,119 this stuff, it's it's uncharted. 358 00:18:49,599 - > 00:18:50,400 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we all are. 359 00:18:50,559 - > 00:18:51,039 We all are. 360 00:18:51,279 - > 00:18:52,880 It's really fascinating for me. 361 00:18:53,039 - > 00:18:57,519 I started my career in Google Ads, and at the time being$2 per 362 00:18:57,519 - > 00:19:01,440 click, and we were delivering multiple leads per week to all 363 00:19:01,440 - > 00:19:02,000 the clients. 364 00:19:02,079 - > 00:19:04,559 It was so easy, it was such a game changer. 365 00:19:04,799 - > 00:19:08,160 Um, having come from the world of TV media where you know you 366 00:19:08,319 - > 00:19:13,279 pay$50,000 for a prime time ad, and we hope the right people saw 367 00:19:13,279 - > 00:19:13,519 that. 368 00:19:14,480 - > 00:19:17,119 So um it was it was yeah, much different, right? 369 00:19:17,599 - > 00:19:22,079 So different, but now we've actually for ourselves, we've 370 00:19:22,079 - > 00:19:24,640 turned off Google Ads because we don't see any value in it. 371 00:19:24,720 - > 00:19:29,279 You're paying$50 per click now, and you're still getting people 372 00:19:29,279 - > 00:19:30,640 at the awareness stage. 373 00:19:30,799 - > 00:19:34,400 And so a lot of the people that we speak to and our clients 374 00:19:34,400 - > 00:19:39,279 speak to, they are actually coming from AI, um, and as well 375 00:19:39,279 - > 00:19:40,079 as SEO. 376 00:19:40,160 - > 00:19:44,160 I think it's very difficult to make paid search work in in this 377 00:19:44,160 - > 00:19:45,759 day and age, which is a shame. 378 00:19:45,839 - > 00:19:47,680 But again, constant change. 379 00:19:47,839 - > 00:19:49,839 We just need to evolve with the times. 380 00:19:50,240 - > 00:19:51,440 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we sure do. 381 00:19:51,519 - > 00:19:52,079 Yeah. 382 00:19:52,319 - > 00:19:56,880 So yeah, we're we're definitely um um experimenting with those 383 00:19:56,880 - > 00:20:01,759 changes, even how we our content on our on our website, we're 384 00:20:01,759 - > 00:20:05,920 writing it differently to appeal to um not the search engine 385 00:20:05,920 - > 00:20:10,559 optimization as much, but we're appealing to the uh LLMs that 386 00:20:10,559 - > 00:20:13,680 are searching, you know, anticipating, you know, how 387 00:20:13,680 - > 00:20:17,680 people type in the question and stuff and and and really we're 388 00:20:17,680 - > 00:20:22,079 trying to appeal to those LLMs so they so we're the most, I 389 00:20:22,079 - > 00:20:23,759 don't know, relevant. 390 00:20:24,240 - > 00:20:26,880 It's a form of SEO in a way, but again, different rules. 391 00:20:26,960 - > 00:20:28,160 We don't know what the rules are. 392 00:20:28,480 - > 00:20:29,039 SPEAKER_00: Yeah. 393 00:20:29,279 - > 00:20:32,400 Well uh there's a lot of experts that claim needs to you, but I 394 00:20:32,559 - > 00:20:34,799 think it's just trying there at this stage. 395 00:20:35,119 - > 00:20:35,279 unknown: Yeah. 396 00:20:35,519 - > 00:20:38,160 SPEAKER_00: What's exciting me about it is that in the world of 397 00:20:38,160 - > 00:20:41,759 startups, so SaaS startups, when they would typically come into 398 00:20:41,759 - > 00:20:45,279 the market, they they would have to do something like need search 399 00:20:45,440 - > 00:20:49,039 because it was very hard to rank up high, you know, when you're 400 00:20:49,039 - > 00:20:52,400 competing with all the giants that have been around for 20, 401 00:20:52,480 - > 00:20:53,759 30, 40 years. 402 00:20:53,920 - > 00:20:57,359 But now with AI, there is actually ways, because I do see 403 00:20:57,359 - > 00:21:01,759 it in when I start ChatGPT or Perplexity or Claw, they do 404 00:21:01,759 - > 00:21:04,480 actually recommend startups and other businesses. 405 00:21:04,640 - > 00:21:06,000 So it's it's really interesting. 406 00:21:06,079 - > 00:21:10,400 I think it's really opening up a world for smaller businesses and 407 00:21:10,400 - > 00:21:12,400 the startups to compete better. 408 00:21:12,799 - > 00:21:13,279 SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm. 409 00:21:13,839 - > 00:21:15,039 Yeah, I agree. 410 00:21:15,200 - > 00:21:23,440 I'd like to um I'd like to um uh figure out that that that that 411 00:21:23,680 - > 00:21:25,599 the magic juice there to do it. 412 00:21:25,680 - > 00:21:27,920 Like I like I said, we we do a lot, right? 413 00:21:28,079 - > 00:21:34,000 So I we depend on on a lot of volume, but maybe maybe, yeah. 414 00:21:34,079 - > 00:21:36,880 So we're transitioning, but you know, maybe we don't need as 415 00:21:36,880 - > 00:21:40,559 much volume because it's uh the the search is so much more uh 416 00:21:40,559 - > 00:21:42,319 specific and directed, right? 417 00:21:42,400 - > 00:21:44,960 Yeah, because we still get paid leads. 418 00:21:45,200 - > 00:21:48,559 I wish I could get them for 50 bucks uh flick, but you know, 419 00:21:48,640 - > 00:21:52,880 they'll call us up and they say, Oh, um, I need help restarting 420 00:21:52,880 - > 00:21:53,839 my Android phone. 421 00:21:53,920 - > 00:21:58,240 It's like, how the heck did you, you know, did you beat our pad 422 00:21:58,400 - > 00:21:58,480 even? 423 00:21:58,799 - > 00:21:59,279 Did you even look? 424 00:21:59,359 - > 00:22:01,359 I mean, it Of lot of junk. 425 00:22:01,680 - > 00:22:02,160 SPEAKER_00: Yeah. 426 00:22:02,400 - > 00:22:02,799 Yeah. 427 00:22:03,039 - > 00:22:03,839 It's a shame. 428 00:22:03,920 - > 00:22:05,680 I I would love to figure it out too. 429 00:22:05,839 - > 00:22:08,000 Um, permission to do so. 430 00:22:08,079 - > 00:22:09,920 So yeah, let's keep chatting once we do. 431 00:22:10,319 - > 00:22:10,559 SPEAKER_02: Sure. 432 00:22:10,720 - > 00:22:10,960 Yeah. 433 00:22:11,279 - > 00:22:14,079 SPEAKER_00: Um the hardest problem you've solved for a 434 00:22:14,079 - > 00:22:14,319 client. 435 00:22:14,400 - > 00:22:17,920 So without naming names, or you Johnny, if you'd love to, but 436 00:22:17,920 - > 00:22:21,599 walk us through the most complex challenge a client brought you 437 00:22:21,759 - > 00:22:23,519 and how you approached it. 438 00:22:25,039 - > 00:22:26,480 SPEAKER_01: The most complex. 439 00:22:26,960 - > 00:22:33,599 Um you know, we we had this uh this uh client and they're uh 440 00:22:33,680 - > 00:22:38,960 there they were a um a division of a of a a large international 441 00:22:38,960 - > 00:22:44,000 company, but but this particular CEO uh owned the California 442 00:22:44,000 - > 00:22:48,240 territory, um local here in in um Southern California. 443 00:22:48,559 - > 00:22:53,279 And um, you know, their business processes, they they sold um um 444 00:22:54,640 - > 00:23:00,000 big um big equipment that was custom built for projects that 445 00:23:00,000 - > 00:23:05,359 had this this whole workflow of estimating and um sourcing 446 00:23:05,359 - > 00:23:09,119 together parts and uh and then estimating that and then and 447 00:23:09,119 - > 00:23:13,680 then delivery and but they were all um they were they were still 448 00:23:13,680 - > 00:23:18,319 emailing spreadsheets with tabs on each department that would 449 00:23:18,319 - > 00:23:19,119 copy it over. 450 00:23:19,279 - > 00:23:24,000 And it was very frustrating for him because he wouldn't he he 451 00:23:24,000 - > 00:23:27,839 wouldn't know how much money they made on a project until a 452 00:23:27,839 - > 00:23:30,960 month afterwards because you know you estimate it. 453 00:23:31,039 - > 00:23:34,720 Oh, and the sales reps would just copy and paste, you know, 454 00:23:34,880 - > 00:23:38,480 their old proposal where you know the they didn't update the 455 00:23:38,480 - > 00:23:40,799 prices um because they were lazy. 456 00:23:41,039 - > 00:23:45,599 And then the uh the engineer would um actually source the 457 00:23:45,599 - > 00:23:46,960 bit, uh the parts and stuff. 458 00:23:47,039 - > 00:23:50,240 And when it was done, they had to, you know, put all that in a 459 00:23:50,240 - > 00:23:51,359 spreadsheet and figure it out. 460 00:23:51,519 - > 00:23:53,039 And he wanted more real time. 461 00:23:53,200 - > 00:23:58,000 So um we spent a considerable amount of time at their location 462 00:23:58,319 - > 00:24:02,240 um with each department, going through and trying to understand 463 00:24:02,240 - > 00:24:06,319 their business um exactly how it flowed. 464 00:24:06,640 - > 00:24:08,480 Um, and he was hands-on. 465 00:24:08,720 - > 00:24:12,000 He'd come to our office twice a week and spend two or three 466 00:24:12,000 - > 00:24:16,720 hours with us flowcharting and and working through screens and 467 00:24:16,799 - > 00:24:20,319 and um bringing his team over there and you know, trying to 468 00:24:20,319 - > 00:24:23,200 get consensus of how they're gonna make this major switch 469 00:24:23,200 - > 00:24:23,440 over. 470 00:24:23,599 - > 00:24:27,279 And we had to integrate with um their the corporate entity that 471 00:24:27,279 - > 00:24:30,319 had you know all the parts and and all this and their ERP 472 00:24:30,319 - > 00:24:31,119 systems and stuff. 473 00:24:31,359 - > 00:24:34,640 But um we were successful with that. 474 00:24:34,720 - > 00:24:35,759 That was that was great. 475 00:24:35,839 - > 00:24:40,000 It it was it was really good and transformed his his company. 476 00:24:40,480 - > 00:24:46,559 Um in fact, they it was so successful that the other um 477 00:24:46,880 - > 00:24:51,119 divisions across the US they saw that and they wanted to to use 478 00:24:51,440 - > 00:24:51,759 it. 479 00:24:52,240 - > 00:24:56,000 And uh, but corporate didn't like that. 480 00:24:56,480 - > 00:25:00,880 Um so because they they liked Salesforce. 481 00:25:02,480 - > 00:25:03,039 Yeah. 482 00:25:03,279 - > 00:25:07,599 And um, and ours was ours was designed from the ground up to 483 00:25:07,599 - > 00:25:09,279 do exactly what they wanted to do. 484 00:25:09,359 - > 00:25:11,839 And you know, Salesforce, they're they have great um 485 00:25:12,079 - > 00:25:13,119 salespeople and everything. 486 00:25:13,200 - > 00:25:17,279 They said, yeah, we can customize anything, and um, I 487 00:25:17,279 - > 00:25:19,119 mean, so much more. 488 00:25:19,440 - > 00:25:22,400 I mean, all he had to do is pay us the maintenance costs and he 489 00:25:22,400 - > 00:25:23,359 could add things anytime. 490 00:25:23,519 - > 00:25:25,920 Oh, we need this feature, and you know, it was simple to do, 491 00:25:26,079 - > 00:25:28,880 but uh, you know, they they they weren't enterprise and they 492 00:25:28,880 - > 00:25:32,079 weren't gonna deal with a company like us, and they did 493 00:25:32,079 - > 00:25:33,839 two um Six Sigmas. 494 00:25:34,319 - > 00:25:38,559 I that's a that's a I'm not familiar with the Six Sigma 495 00:25:38,559 - > 00:25:42,240 process, it's a management process of making a decision of 496 00:25:42,240 - > 00:25:47,119 this stuff, and both times I I think you have to graduate 497 00:25:47,359 - > 00:25:50,079 business school or something to understand what that is, but 498 00:25:50,079 - > 00:25:52,400 it's a Sigma, six Six Sigma. 499 00:25:52,799 - > 00:25:54,160 I've never heard of that either. 500 00:25:54,559 - > 00:25:58,240 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I've had a lot of a lot of my clients have 501 00:25:58,240 - > 00:26:02,559 said, I feel like I need a PhD to use sales force, it's not 502 00:26:02,559 - > 00:26:03,839 very intuitive. 503 00:26:04,559 - > 00:26:08,400 SPEAKER_01: So we um we we both times it came out that we should 504 00:26:08,400 - > 00:26:11,759 be using um the Serratada stuff, you know, the the thing that we 505 00:26:11,759 - > 00:26:14,720 built, but you know, eventually corporate just said no, they 506 00:26:14,720 - > 00:26:18,160 signed a huge you know license agreement with Salesforce and 507 00:26:18,160 - > 00:26:20,960 hired the people and they rolled it out everywhere. 508 00:26:21,039 - > 00:26:23,119 And um, but it was very successful. 509 00:26:23,359 - > 00:26:25,440 They bought out the guy that built this one if they had a 510 00:26:25,440 - > 00:26:26,880 right to do that, so they just took it over. 511 00:26:26,960 - > 00:26:28,559 So that was challenging. 512 00:26:28,720 - > 00:26:35,359 It was um I say hard, um challenging all stakeholders and 513 00:26:35,359 - > 00:26:36,960 everything, but it was very successful. 514 00:26:37,119 - > 00:26:40,880 And but in the end, Salesforce uh he ran it for about four 515 00:26:40,880 - > 00:26:43,440 years and very successfully, and then you know, they just 516 00:26:43,440 - > 00:26:45,359 scrapped it and went with Salesforce. 517 00:26:45,519 - > 00:26:49,119 So yeah, we're very proud of it though. 518 00:26:49,599 - > 00:26:50,240 SPEAKER_00: For sure. 519 00:26:50,400 - > 00:26:53,519 It's it's uh it's an interesting origin to that story, it's very 520 00:26:53,519 - > 00:26:57,440 relatable because I've usually when we when I speak to clients, 521 00:26:57,519 - > 00:27:00,160 one of our questions is well, who are your competitors? 522 00:27:00,400 - > 00:27:03,119 And most of the time they will say Excel. 523 00:27:03,759 - > 00:27:06,799 And um, I'm like, okay, so they're not using other 524 00:27:06,799 - > 00:27:11,119 software, they're literally using a spreadsheet to you know 525 00:27:11,359 - > 00:27:14,240 keep all the data, make sense of it. 526 00:27:14,480 - > 00:27:18,400 SPEAKER_01: Um another one is access, Microsoft Access. 527 00:27:18,559 - > 00:27:20,799 A lot of people built their databases on that, and they're 528 00:27:20,799 - > 00:27:24,799 all like, okay, okay, we we've reached the limit on this, you 529 00:27:24,799 - > 00:27:24,960 know. 530 00:27:25,039 - > 00:27:26,559 How can we add this functionality? 531 00:27:26,720 - > 00:27:29,279 I said, look, it we don't, you know, work on access, we're not 532 00:27:29,279 - > 00:27:29,920 gonna build on this. 533 00:27:30,000 - > 00:27:31,119 You you have a choice. 534 00:27:31,279 - > 00:27:34,640 I mean, you're gonna have to, you know, you to modernize, 535 00:27:34,799 - > 00:27:38,319 you're gonna have to use a modern technologies and platform 536 00:27:38,319 - > 00:27:41,839 to do something, or you know, find a find a SaaS product that 537 00:27:41,920 - > 00:27:45,440 that does, you know, what you want it to do, you know, that 538 00:27:45,440 - > 00:27:46,960 makes financial sense. 539 00:27:47,279 - > 00:27:47,599 SPEAKER_00: Yeah. 540 00:27:47,839 - > 00:27:50,559 SPEAKER_01: And most of our clients, they do compare us to, 541 00:27:50,720 - > 00:27:53,839 I mean, they're and some of some deals we lose. 542 00:27:53,920 - > 00:27:57,039 They they say, no, we decided to go with off the shelf, which 543 00:27:57,039 - > 00:27:58,160 means a SaaS product. 544 00:27:58,240 - > 00:27:59,119 That's what they say. 545 00:27:59,440 - > 00:28:07,200 Um or they or they're afraid of um I I guess they're they're 546 00:28:07,200 - > 00:28:12,720 afraid of being changed beholden, beholden to a SaaS 547 00:28:12,880 - > 00:28:19,119 product that um so some for some people there's a control issue, 548 00:28:19,279 - > 00:28:19,440 right? 549 00:28:19,839 - > 00:28:25,839 The data, the the costs, the feature availability if they 550 00:28:25,839 - > 00:28:26,799 want something. 551 00:28:27,039 - > 00:28:31,759 SPEAKER_00: Um and um and even just learning something new, 552 00:28:31,920 - > 00:28:33,039 they just don't want to. 553 00:28:33,200 - > 00:28:36,000 So I think some of the issues are with change management and 554 00:28:36,000 - > 00:28:38,799 just trying to get lots of people to commit to one software 555 00:28:38,880 - > 00:28:41,119 where they're like, oh no, no, we just want to do it how we've 556 00:28:41,119 - > 00:28:44,079 always done it, even though it's yeah, it's terrible. 557 00:28:44,559 - > 00:28:45,119 SPEAKER_01: Yeah. 558 00:28:45,440 - > 00:28:48,480 Well, you have to do that either with SaaS or a custom build 559 00:28:48,559 - > 00:28:50,720 because it is change for for anybody. 560 00:28:50,799 - > 00:28:55,279 But I think with the with the custom build, often if you do it 561 00:28:55,279 - > 00:28:58,960 right, you can you can make the users the stakeholders because 562 00:28:58,960 - > 00:29:00,079 they're building it. 563 00:29:00,319 - > 00:29:02,880 So there's that sense of ownership a little bit. 564 00:29:03,039 - > 00:29:06,640 Um so again, I think it's different for every company and 565 00:29:06,640 - > 00:29:10,319 size of company that you can't build custom software if you're 566 00:29:10,400 - > 00:29:15,039 you know have a small budget, if you're um a$10 million company. 567 00:29:15,200 - > 00:29:18,720 I mean, that's it's gonna cost you you you gotta start 568 00:29:18,720 - > 00:29:19,519 somewhere. 569 00:29:19,599 - > 00:29:22,720 And and and you know, SaaS products are great for that. 570 00:29:22,880 - > 00:29:28,559 I mean, you can get in pretty um quickly and inexpensively to see 571 00:29:28,559 - > 00:29:32,000 if it fits your workflow and you can grow from that either. 572 00:29:32,240 - > 00:29:37,440 Um and who knows, you know, a lot of these SaaS products are 573 00:29:37,440 - > 00:29:40,720 starting to incorporate AI um in that. 574 00:29:41,200 - > 00:29:46,079 And it'll be interesting to see how how flexible that is if it 575 00:29:46,160 - > 00:29:51,359 if if it allows um licensees of SaaS products to adapt the 576 00:29:51,359 - > 00:29:55,279 product more easily than depending on the release 577 00:29:55,279 - > 00:29:55,599 schedule. 578 00:29:55,759 - > 00:29:58,559 Oh, yeah, we're gonna do that next year sometime, you know, as 579 00:29:58,559 - > 00:30:01,599 opposed to I I don't know if that's gonna be possible, but 580 00:30:01,599 - > 00:30:02,640 that that's interesting. 581 00:30:03,680 - > 00:30:04,000 SPEAKER_00: Yeah. 582 00:30:04,240 - > 00:30:07,519 SPEAKER_01: I think I think SAS, I think people that own SaaS 583 00:30:07,680 - > 00:30:12,000 products um certainly have to be looking at how they're gonna 584 00:30:12,000 - > 00:30:13,359 incorporate AI into it. 585 00:30:13,519 - > 00:30:18,400 I mean 100% for some of my customers that have SaaS 586 00:30:18,559 - > 00:30:22,319 products, um, their customers are saying, Well, do you use AI 587 00:30:22,319 - > 00:30:23,359 in your SaaS product? 588 00:30:23,440 - > 00:30:24,640 It's like, what? 589 00:30:25,839 - > 00:30:28,319 Say yes, we'll we'll we'll do a checkbox. 590 00:30:30,799 - > 00:30:35,200 SPEAKER_00: You know, it's almost like um, yeah, I think 591 00:30:35,839 - > 00:30:37,440 you have to adapt or die. 592 00:30:37,519 - > 00:30:41,200 I think a lot of the software I use, they now have and they and 593 00:30:41,200 - > 00:30:44,720 they have from the beginning started to use AI within them. 594 00:30:44,799 - > 00:30:48,480 And it's um it's something I use a lot now. 595 00:30:48,559 - > 00:30:51,759 So it's I think you know, if I was to go to a competitor that 596 00:30:51,920 - > 00:30:55,279 didn't have that, it would be it would be so different. 597 00:30:55,519 - > 00:30:58,960 Um, yeah, it would yeah, and it's very much needed. 598 00:30:59,119 - > 00:31:02,640 I think the most impressive one I saw at in the early days was 599 00:31:02,640 - > 00:31:06,240 when I went to do an online course, and um, instead of 600 00:31:06,240 - > 00:31:09,599 giving you those generic questions as a quiz at the end 601 00:31:09,599 - > 00:31:12,640 of the course, they actually tailored it to who you were 602 00:31:12,799 - > 00:31:16,079 based on what they knew about you, like company, job title, 603 00:31:16,160 - > 00:31:18,000 all of that, which I thought was really good. 604 00:31:18,160 - > 00:31:21,039 So they created a really personalized experience with 605 00:31:21,039 - > 00:31:21,839 learning. 606 00:31:22,160 - > 00:31:22,960 SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm. 607 00:31:23,599 - > 00:31:24,240 Yeah. 608 00:31:24,880 - > 00:31:28,480 So another one of our customers that we built it 11 years we've 609 00:31:28,559 - > 00:31:29,839 uh we've been working. 610 00:31:30,079 - > 00:31:34,000 We start it, it was a startup actually, and we built it on um 611 00:31:34,559 - > 00:31:35,680 I can say the name of it. 612 00:31:35,759 - > 00:31:41,599 It's it's sports thread, it's a youth, a youth sports um uh SaaS 613 00:31:41,839 - > 00:31:47,519 product that um helps organizers with youth sports verify age ID 614 00:31:47,680 - > 00:31:51,839 and registration and and games and uh you know the the gains, 615 00:31:52,000 - > 00:31:55,359 ticket sales for parents that go there and all this, all this 616 00:31:55,359 - > 00:31:56,000 stuff. 617 00:31:56,319 - > 00:31:57,839 Um a great product. 618 00:31:58,000 - > 00:32:00,319 Um they're doing fine, it works great. 619 00:32:00,480 - > 00:32:05,839 Um, but we were able to add an AI component to it because um 620 00:32:06,079 - > 00:32:09,440 all youth sports kind of start at the same time, uh, you know, 621 00:32:09,599 - > 00:32:13,759 the season, and um their customer service was just 622 00:32:13,759 - > 00:32:18,559 inundated with um um, you know, the parents that are trying to, 623 00:32:18,640 - > 00:32:22,880 you know, what was my login, just just simple use things. 624 00:32:23,119 - > 00:32:28,319 And um, because they had so much data over the 11 years of of 625 00:32:28,319 - > 00:32:32,000 what these they they they actually documented all this 626 00:32:32,000 - > 00:32:33,519 stuff, which is great in the answers. 627 00:32:33,599 - > 00:32:34,160 So that was good. 628 00:32:34,240 - > 00:32:38,079 So we had all this data, and it helped so much because they 629 00:32:38,079 - > 00:32:40,160 didn't have to, uh they weren't overburdened. 630 00:32:40,240 - > 00:32:44,559 The the AI agent, and we built an agent to it that could 631 00:32:44,559 - > 00:32:49,279 actually um uh not only talk to them but immediately reset their 632 00:32:49,279 - > 00:32:51,519 password or do this kind of stuff where we didn't need the 633 00:32:51,519 - > 00:32:52,079 agent in there. 634 00:32:52,160 - > 00:32:53,759 So that that really helped them. 635 00:32:53,920 - > 00:32:58,160 I think they told us it was like an 83% improvement on on or what 636 00:32:58,160 - > 00:32:59,200 they were able to do. 637 00:32:59,440 - > 00:33:05,680 Um, so that that's a that's an example of um you know uh adding 638 00:33:05,680 - > 00:33:09,039 AI to a to a SaaS product for one of our clients that we built 639 00:33:09,039 - > 00:33:09,359 it for. 640 00:33:09,519 - > 00:33:13,200 SPEAKER_00: So is a very good example, a relatable one as 641 00:33:13,200 - > 00:33:13,279 well. 642 00:33:13,440 - > 00:33:14,799 Like my kids play soccer. 643 00:33:14,960 - > 00:33:17,839 So at the start of the year, we're all trying to register on 644 00:33:17,839 - > 00:33:20,880 probably a similar platform, like the Australian equivalent, 645 00:33:21,039 - > 00:33:22,960 and it was having all sorts of issues. 646 00:33:23,119 - > 00:33:26,640 Unfortunately, there was no AI built into it, so we just had to 647 00:33:26,640 - > 00:33:27,599 wait it out. 648 00:33:27,920 - > 00:33:28,559 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 649 00:33:28,720 - > 00:33:29,279 SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately. 650 00:33:29,839 - > 00:33:34,400 Um coming back to people and culture at Saritassa, I'm 651 00:33:34,400 - > 00:33:38,079 curious what's your approach to hiring and retaining great 652 00:33:38,079 - > 00:33:38,720 talent? 653 00:33:40,240 - > 00:33:51,519 SPEAKER_01: So um uh we we um we prefer to, well, first of all, 654 00:33:51,759 - > 00:33:53,039 promote internally. 655 00:33:53,519 - > 00:33:59,839 Um and even for like our project management um staff, we we 656 00:33:59,839 - > 00:34:06,079 prefer to hire people that are smart and eager and green, um, 657 00:34:06,240 - > 00:34:10,159 that and and teach them as opposed to bringing somebody in 658 00:34:10,159 - > 00:34:12,559 that has all this experience in project management and 659 00:34:12,559 - > 00:34:16,000 everything, because we have found that did that doesn't work 660 00:34:16,000 - > 00:34:17,840 for us that well. 661 00:34:18,639 - > 00:34:26,320 Um we're we're fighting them as opposed to uh so I I think what 662 00:34:26,320 - > 00:34:30,320 we're looking for is just really bright, relatable, relatable. 663 00:34:30,880 - > 00:34:35,039 You know, we we have the right uh uh criteria for like project 664 00:34:35,039 - > 00:34:35,519 managers. 665 00:34:35,599 - > 00:34:38,239 They they need to be able to speak professionally and 666 00:34:38,239 - > 00:34:40,159 articulate what they're saying, right? 667 00:34:40,239 - > 00:34:45,119 And and and be smart and understand um, you know, what 668 00:34:45,199 - > 00:34:48,480 you know how to multitask uh project management is, you know, 669 00:34:48,559 - > 00:34:50,239 there's a lot going on there, right? 670 00:34:50,400 - > 00:34:57,920 And um, so we we we hire um we we like to hire juniors and 671 00:34:57,920 - > 00:34:59,039 mentor them up. 672 00:34:59,199 - > 00:35:04,159 Um we find out pretty quickly, either they like it um and then 673 00:35:04,159 - > 00:35:06,639 they stay on and then they can grow within the company. 674 00:35:06,719 - > 00:35:08,480 And we've been very successful with that. 675 00:35:08,800 - > 00:35:11,519 Or we find out or they find out very quickly that it's not for 676 00:35:11,519 - > 00:35:11,679 them. 677 00:35:11,840 - > 00:35:14,960 So we didn't waste too much time with that and not too much money 678 00:35:15,039 - > 00:35:15,440 either. 679 00:35:15,679 - > 00:35:18,639 And it gives them when you hire somebody junior, it gives them a 680 00:35:18,719 - > 00:35:21,760 um a kind of a quicker career path. 681 00:35:21,920 - > 00:35:25,440 They can see their incomes go go up pretty quickly, right? 682 00:35:25,599 - > 00:35:28,480 To the to the level of, okay, wow, you're you're really good. 683 00:35:28,559 - > 00:35:31,840 And so we can, you know, it could go up very quickly for 684 00:35:31,840 - > 00:35:32,159 them. 685 00:35:32,480 - > 00:35:33,840 So that has worked. 686 00:35:34,000 - > 00:35:37,679 Like I said, most of our people um have been here for a long 687 00:35:37,679 - > 00:35:38,000 time. 688 00:35:39,119 - > 00:35:41,840 SPEAKER_00: I love that you said that because uh we do exactly 689 00:35:41,840 - > 00:35:44,320 the same thing, but we didn't always do it that way. 690 00:35:44,400 - > 00:35:47,199 So we recently changed our hiring strategy. 691 00:35:47,280 - > 00:35:49,360 I think it was since COVID, actually. 692 00:35:49,599 - > 00:35:54,400 Um we would very much focus on hiring specialists in the field. 693 00:35:54,480 - > 00:35:57,679 So if you specialize in an area, fantastic. 694 00:35:57,840 - > 00:35:59,119 Come and work for us. 695 00:35:59,280 - > 00:36:02,800 Um and you're right, we we did find that those people could 696 00:36:02,800 - > 00:36:04,639 sometimes be really close-minded. 697 00:36:04,800 - > 00:36:07,840 They kind of had their set ways of doing things and they 698 00:36:07,840 - > 00:36:11,119 wouldn't adjust it to the way we were used to doing things. 699 00:36:11,280 - > 00:36:13,519 And it was, you know, a bit of back and forth. 700 00:36:13,599 - > 00:36:16,559 It probably caused a little bit of friction and it delayed 701 00:36:16,559 - > 00:36:17,679 things getting done. 702 00:36:17,920 - > 00:36:21,119 We then started hiring juniors and mentoring them, and we 703 00:36:21,119 - > 00:36:23,920 created a bit of an academy program like this is what the 704 00:36:23,920 - > 00:36:26,800 next five years of your career could look like, which they 705 00:36:26,800 - > 00:36:29,920 really loved because you know they could see a future. 706 00:36:30,159 - > 00:36:34,880 And what we found was that young people were just such quick 707 00:36:34,880 - > 00:36:37,440 learners, they were really fast at doing things. 708 00:36:37,519 - > 00:36:40,400 I forgot how fast young people could do things, they were 709 00:36:40,400 - > 00:36:41,519 faster than me. 710 00:36:41,760 - > 00:36:44,000 Um, and it was just incredible to watch. 711 00:36:44,159 - > 00:36:45,599 And yeah, they've been amazing. 712 00:36:45,840 - > 00:36:49,360 And um, when you do give them a career part and a potential 713 00:36:49,360 - > 00:36:50,880 future, they do stick around. 714 00:36:50,960 - > 00:36:52,960 They're quite happy to stay. 715 00:36:53,440 - > 00:36:53,920 SPEAKER_01: Yeah. 716 00:36:54,159 - > 00:37:00,000 So for our, so we also do that for our our development um our 717 00:37:00,000 - > 00:37:06,000 engineers, and we have offices in in um one, two, three, four 718 00:37:06,000 - > 00:37:08,480 offices overseas in in different countries. 719 00:37:08,719 - > 00:37:12,239 And um, they're all employees of ours and um part of our 720 00:37:12,239 - > 00:37:12,559 structure. 721 00:37:12,719 - > 00:37:16,559 But what we started doing, because uh, you know, hiring 722 00:37:16,559 - > 00:37:19,920 these skilled senior engineers, same problem. 723 00:37:20,079 - > 00:37:23,519 They wanted to do it our way, you know, and and or they wanted 724 00:37:23,519 - > 00:37:25,599 to do it their way no matter what. 725 00:37:26,079 - > 00:37:27,519 A lot of friction. 726 00:37:28,000 - > 00:37:30,400 So what we started doing is running camps. 727 00:37:30,639 - > 00:37:35,199 We'd go to the local universities to job fairs, and 728 00:37:35,199 - > 00:37:39,280 we would um we'd have different camps, summer camp, uh, winter 729 00:37:39,280 - > 00:37:43,199 camp for specialties for either mobile development or VR or 730 00:37:43,199 - > 00:37:46,079 maybe it's PHP or Python, whatever it is. 731 00:37:46,400 - > 00:37:51,039 And um, they would have to come in and they'd have to apply and 732 00:37:51,039 - > 00:37:56,159 um um qualify to become into this class. 733 00:37:56,400 - > 00:38:01,199 Um and I I think I don't remember exactly because I don't 734 00:38:01,199 - > 00:38:06,960 run those, but we'd only like five percent of them we would 735 00:38:06,960 - > 00:38:11,039 allow, and then we'd have about 25 people, and the senior people 736 00:38:11,039 - > 00:38:14,320 would run these camps and and you know, have them program and 737 00:38:14,320 - > 00:38:20,079 everything, and um, and then maybe one or two would get a job 738 00:38:20,079 - > 00:38:20,719 offer. 739 00:38:21,119 - > 00:38:25,360 And it was a constant stream of new talent that we could get and 740 00:38:25,440 - > 00:38:29,760 and really good talent, and um and it it worked out better 741 00:38:29,760 - > 00:38:34,159 because these these juniors um they they grew up so they they 742 00:38:34,400 - > 00:38:37,679 got so much better with their mentors and everything that they 743 00:38:37,679 - > 00:38:39,519 become very valuable very quickly. 744 00:38:39,760 - > 00:38:42,159 So yeah, we do that across the board. 745 00:38:42,239 - > 00:38:46,960 And I'm we've we've hired like a director position for our 746 00:38:46,960 - > 00:38:50,639 creative department, and that that was just it's it's it's 747 00:38:50,639 - > 00:38:51,840 like, what are you doing? 748 00:38:52,000 - > 00:38:54,159 I mean, this is not the way we do things here, right? 749 00:38:54,239 - > 00:38:57,920 We hired you for your expertise, but there's so much tension, so 750 00:38:58,000 - > 00:38:58,239 yeah. 751 00:38:58,559 - > 00:39:00,320 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's so clever, actually. 752 00:39:00,559 - > 00:39:03,440 Just creating a program, and then you you hire all the best 753 00:39:03,599 - > 00:39:04,079 talent. 754 00:39:04,400 - > 00:39:08,239 Um, it also it's so meaningful, you know, you're training people 755 00:39:08,239 - > 00:39:10,559 in something, and then you give them a job at the end of it. 756 00:39:10,719 - > 00:39:13,760 I think it just gives you much more meaning and purpose and 757 00:39:13,760 - > 00:39:16,000 just feels like you're doing the right thing. 758 00:39:16,639 - > 00:39:17,599 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah. 759 00:39:17,840 - > 00:39:22,320 And I think the loyalty is is is um we get more loyalty that way. 760 00:39:22,400 - > 00:39:25,039 You hire a senior and maybe they don't quite like it, and you 761 00:39:25,039 - > 00:39:27,440 know they're worth this much, and then they can go online and 762 00:39:27,440 - > 00:39:28,480 maybe go someplace else. 763 00:39:28,559 - > 00:39:31,440 There, there's no skin in the game with the junior. 764 00:39:31,519 - > 00:39:34,719 I mean, they they work so hard to get this job and then they're 765 00:39:34,719 - > 00:39:35,840 gonna get raises faster. 766 00:39:35,920 - > 00:39:39,199 I mean, they're they're they're they're they feel lucky they can 767 00:39:39,199 - > 00:39:39,440 be here. 768 00:39:39,599 - > 00:39:41,119 They got the job at Google, you know. 769 00:39:41,599 - > 00:39:44,480 We're not Google, but I mean, but you know, in some of these 770 00:39:44,480 - > 00:39:45,599 uh places we have it. 771 00:39:45,679 - > 00:39:48,320 I mean, we're you know, we have a reputation that we're you 772 00:39:48,320 - > 00:39:50,159 know, you want to work for Saratasa. 773 00:39:50,559 - > 00:39:53,280 So I think buys loyalty. 774 00:39:53,599 - > 00:39:54,639 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure. 775 00:39:54,880 - > 00:39:55,360 For sure. 776 00:39:55,440 - > 00:39:58,159 Hey, it's hard to get that in this day and age, I believe. 777 00:39:58,639 - > 00:39:59,679 SPEAKER_01: Sure is, right. 778 00:40:00,079 - > 00:40:04,800 And we don't uh anybody that we hire, um, it's a requirement to 779 00:40:04,800 - > 00:40:05,760 come into the office. 780 00:40:05,920 - > 00:40:10,239 I mean, we won't hire somebody new outside of our office 781 00:40:10,239 - > 00:40:14,079 locations because they they need to we need to see them, we need 782 00:40:14,079 - > 00:40:14,639 to be on them. 783 00:40:14,719 - > 00:40:16,880 I I would feel very uncomfortable hiring somebody 784 00:40:16,880 - > 00:40:19,360 remote if I don't know their work ethic or anything. 785 00:40:19,519 - > 00:40:22,079 Um tenured people, we already know. 786 00:40:22,239 - > 00:40:23,280 We know their outcomes. 787 00:40:23,440 - > 00:40:24,719 It's no problem. 788 00:40:25,760 - > 00:40:26,480 SPEAKER_00: For sure. 789 00:40:26,800 - > 00:40:30,639 Um Nick, my last question for you it's a tradition on this 790 00:40:30,639 - > 00:40:34,719 podcast, one that I ask every person is if you could go back 791 00:40:34,719 - > 00:40:39,360 in time to any age and give yourself one bit of advice, what 792 00:40:39,360 - > 00:40:40,320 would that be? 793 00:40:50,320 - > 00:40:54,320 SPEAKER_01: It worries me a little bit because what if I did 794 00:40:54,320 - > 00:40:56,159 that and then I wouldn't be here? 795 00:40:56,239 - > 00:40:58,000 It's like the butterfly effect, right? 796 00:40:58,079 - > 00:41:01,280 Because I'm I'm I'm I'm happy, you know. 797 00:41:01,360 - > 00:41:06,480 I mean you know, I have a wife and four children and I'm 798 00:41:06,480 - > 00:41:09,360 successful and I gotta be careful. 799 00:41:09,440 - > 00:41:10,719 What advice would I give? 800 00:41:11,280 - > 00:41:13,599 SPEAKER_00: Well, you might not even follow it if you gave it to 801 00:41:13,599 - > 00:41:14,719 yourself back then. 802 00:41:17,360 - > 00:41:27,519 SPEAKER_01: Um, I think um I think paying a little bit more 803 00:41:27,760 - > 00:41:32,320 maybe paying a little bit more attention to academics. 804 00:41:32,480 - > 00:41:38,000 I was I was that I got C's in high school and dropped out of 805 00:41:38,000 - > 00:41:44,159 college and I really didn't um yeah, I uh, you know, I'm the 806 00:41:44,559 - > 00:41:48,960 I'm the football jock and the homecoming king and drinking on 807 00:41:48,960 - > 00:41:52,159 the weekends, and I didn't I didn't know school was 808 00:41:52,159 - > 00:41:52,480 important. 809 00:41:52,639 - > 00:41:55,360 And I think I could have learned, I was in the very 810 00:41:55,360 - > 00:41:57,119 beginning of internet. 811 00:41:57,599 - > 00:42:00,880 Um I mean just in the very beginning. 812 00:42:00,960 - > 00:42:03,679 I have some, you know, friends that were really into it. 813 00:42:03,760 - > 00:42:09,840 And you know, I I would have it would have definitely been a 814 00:42:09,840 - > 00:42:11,119 different track for me. 815 00:42:11,360 - > 00:42:14,800 But at the same time, I'm gonna tell you, I I really like the 816 00:42:14,800 - > 00:42:19,519 ignorance a little bit because I, you know, I I leave the 817 00:42:19,519 - > 00:42:23,760 development stuff to the to it's so hard to answer that question 818 00:42:24,079 - > 00:42:33,199 because um yeah, even if you had followed that academic route, 819 00:42:33,360 - > 00:42:36,079 you're successful now, and you probably had way more fun in 820 00:42:36,079 - > 00:42:37,440 high school than most people. 821 00:42:37,840 - > 00:42:42,000 Yeah, I did, and so that gave me the skills to be sociable 822 00:42:42,079 - > 00:42:46,400 because I I'm on the I'm on the business um driver end of this. 823 00:42:47,039 - > 00:42:49,920 Yeah, I'm on the very personable side of things. 824 00:42:50,000 - > 00:42:53,840 That's why I'm on this podcast, and my CTO is not, or the other 825 00:42:53,840 - > 00:42:57,039 people are not, because they're so much smarter than me in so 826 00:42:57,039 - > 00:42:58,000 many ways. 827 00:42:58,159 - > 00:43:02,320 Um, but you know, it it taught me some of the nuances of of 828 00:43:02,320 - > 00:43:11,760 socialization and and even um yeah, I um I'll have to think 829 00:43:11,760 - > 00:43:12,559 about that some more. 830 00:43:12,719 - > 00:43:20,800 I I I I I I don't I don't have I don't have big regrets, so I I 831 00:43:20,800 - > 00:43:22,320 don't know what that would be. 832 00:43:22,960 - > 00:43:28,719 Um I guess I'm just a optimist, and you know, when things go a 833 00:43:28,719 - > 00:43:30,719 little bit wrong, it happens for a reason. 834 00:43:30,880 - > 00:43:32,719 Um, like this whole AI thing. 835 00:43:32,880 - > 00:43:35,920 I don't know, you know, I don't I don't know the answer. 836 00:43:36,079 - > 00:43:37,760 No, many people don't know the answer. 837 00:43:37,840 - > 00:43:40,800 You know, for a company like mine, you know, you hear all the 838 00:43:40,800 - > 00:43:43,840 time that, you know, that software developers are gonna 839 00:43:43,840 - > 00:43:46,079 become obsolete and you know, you're not gonna need that 840 00:43:46,239 - > 00:43:46,719 encoding. 841 00:43:46,800 - > 00:43:49,039 And, you know, I'm I can see that that's wrong. 842 00:43:49,360 - > 00:43:52,000 Again, there's people are gonna need people. 843 00:43:52,320 - > 00:43:55,599 Um, I think when you go to a restaurant, I don't think you 844 00:43:55,599 - > 00:43:58,079 are gonna be one of served by an Optimus robot. 845 00:43:58,159 - > 00:43:59,519 I think there's something about that waiter. 846 00:44:00,159 - > 00:44:02,559 Waitress that makes that experience so great. 847 00:44:02,719 - > 00:44:04,159 And same with consulting. 848 00:44:04,320 - > 00:44:08,400 And I need to figure out, but what I would have told myself, 849 00:44:08,960 - > 00:44:09,199 um. 850 00:44:11,920 - > 00:44:13,039 It's a good question. 851 00:44:13,199 - > 00:44:14,400 Maybe I should have been prepared for that. 852 00:44:14,639 - > 00:44:15,199 SPEAKER_00: One to think about. 853 00:44:15,920 - > 00:44:16,159 I will. 854 00:44:16,239 - > 00:44:17,280 SPEAKER_01: I yeah, I'll think about it. 855 00:44:17,599 - > 00:44:18,559 SPEAKER_00: You did raise a really good point. 856 00:44:20,000 - > 00:44:21,519 SPEAKER_01: I'll shoot you an email as a follow-up. 857 00:44:21,679 - > 00:44:23,280 I'll just let you know this popped into my head. 858 00:44:23,519 - > 00:44:24,880 SPEAKER_00: I'll add it in the show notes. 859 00:44:25,679 - > 00:44:27,119 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's good. 860 00:44:27,360 - > 00:44:28,719 SPEAKER_00: But you've raised a really good point. 861 00:44:29,039 - > 00:44:31,760 I mean, you you mentioned how smart the people around you 862 00:44:31,760 - > 00:44:33,679 were, and I bet they did well at school. 863 00:44:33,760 - > 00:44:37,119 But one of the most important things in growing a business is 864 00:44:37,119 - > 00:44:38,159 the people skills. 865 00:44:38,400 - > 00:44:42,079 And so yeah, I think that's going to become increasingly 866 00:44:42,079 - > 00:44:44,079 more important as AI takes over. 867 00:44:44,159 - > 00:44:46,639 And you're right, I don't I don't want a robot serving me. 868 00:44:46,719 - > 00:44:48,400 I'm not sure what to speak to a hero. 869 00:44:48,960 - > 00:44:51,440 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't mind the robot um cleaning the house. 870 00:44:51,599 - > 00:44:52,079 I don't mind. 871 00:44:52,320 - > 00:44:52,880 SPEAKER_00: That's all right. 872 00:44:52,960 - > 00:44:53,280 Yeah. 873 00:44:53,679 - > 00:44:54,320 SPEAKER_01: That's okay. 874 00:44:55,039 - > 00:44:55,360 Yeah. 875 00:44:55,599 - > 00:45:00,159 But I'm sure my dog wants me to walk it and not the robot. 876 00:45:01,440 - > 00:45:03,440 SPEAKER_00: I don't think we should outsource that one. 877 00:45:03,519 - > 00:45:04,480 I love walking my dogs. 878 00:45:04,639 - > 00:45:06,000 SPEAKER_01: I don't think we should outsource that one 879 00:45:06,000 - > 00:45:06,559 either. 880 00:45:07,440 - > 00:45:09,760 Well, maybe it's a good analogy on the code, too. 881 00:45:09,840 - > 00:45:13,199 I think the code, I mean, what I see now, code making, I mean, it 882 00:45:13,199 - > 00:45:16,079 just uh there's it's it's just not the same yet. 883 00:45:16,159 - > 00:45:16,800 So we'll see. 884 00:45:17,119 - > 00:45:18,639 SPEAKER_00: No, no, but you're right. 885 00:45:18,719 - > 00:45:20,480 We we don't know what's gonna happen. 886 00:45:20,639 - > 00:45:24,079 And um, I we just need to remain it is good. 887 00:45:24,719 - > 00:45:26,079 SPEAKER_01: I mean, do you need the change? 888 00:45:26,639 - > 00:45:28,320 I wish I could see a little bit. 889 00:45:28,480 - > 00:45:32,159 I knew with the mobile that was coming because I was an Apple 890 00:45:32,159 - > 00:45:36,719 guy, and and we we we changed some of our PHP and had them 891 00:45:36,719 - > 00:45:39,760 learn uh uh X code right away. 892 00:45:40,000 - > 00:45:43,920 And before the iPhone, uh before the app store even opened, I 893 00:45:43,920 - > 00:45:45,119 said, build a couple apps. 894 00:45:45,199 - > 00:45:47,360 I want to submit them because I know I'm gonna get a phone call. 895 00:45:47,519 - > 00:45:50,559 They're gonna say, have you ever built an app before? 896 00:45:50,719 - > 00:45:51,679 It's like, how could we? 897 00:45:51,760 - > 00:45:52,400 They just opened. 898 00:45:52,480 - > 00:45:54,719 But my answer was yes, we did. 899 00:45:54,880 - > 00:45:56,000 And I had the experience. 900 00:45:56,079 - > 00:45:58,880 So some of those things you could see coming and how big 901 00:45:58,880 - > 00:46:02,639 they will be, but um, I don't have the clear vision yet. 902 00:46:02,960 - > 00:46:03,360 SPEAKER_00: All right. 903 00:46:03,599 - > 00:46:06,400 All we can do is remain optimistic and agile. 904 00:46:06,880 - > 00:46:07,280 SPEAKER_01: Yes. 905 00:46:07,519 - > 00:46:11,119 And technology will always be there, and everybody will need 906 00:46:11,119 - > 00:46:14,239 to use technology and it will accelerate at an even greater 907 00:46:14,239 - > 00:46:17,840 pace, and we're gonna need smart people that could connect 908 00:46:17,840 - > 00:46:21,920 businesses with technology and the translators in between to 909 00:46:21,920 - > 00:46:22,400 make it work. 910 00:46:22,480 - > 00:46:25,360 And that was my opening thing, is why I created this. 911 00:46:25,440 - > 00:46:27,519 So I think those tenets still hold true. 912 00:46:27,840 - > 00:46:28,159 SPEAKER_00: Yeah. 913 00:46:28,400 - > 00:46:30,960 I think we're still gonna need people in every industry, 914 00:46:31,119 - > 00:46:34,239 regardless of uh the way technology is evolving. 915 00:46:34,559 - > 00:46:35,760 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah. 916 00:46:37,199 - > 00:46:38,719 SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for being on the show. 917 00:46:38,960 - > 00:46:39,679 Pleasure to have you. 918 00:46:39,920 - > 00:46:42,719 Some really good insights there, and it was so wonderful to hear 919 00:46:42,719 - > 00:46:43,360 your story. 920 00:46:43,840 - > 00:46:44,320 SPEAKER_01: All right. 921 00:46:44,480 - > 00:46:45,440 Well, thank you very much. 922 00:46:45,519 - > 00:46:46,400 It was fun.