Only 3 Products in 12 Years: How April Gargiulo Built a Cult Skincare Brand, Vintner's Daughter

Speaker A: Coming up in this episode of Professional

Speaker B: Jealousy, the bottle it's in cost more than what's inside. Right. I think many are like the marketing plan comes first. And for me it was product from day one. Beauty industry tries to separate us from ourselves. Buy something that makes you feel beautiful. Right. And so with us, we don't use any of those words. This isn't about a company getting built to sell three years later and then I don't care what happens after that. I want to build a heritage company. I've made every mistake there is to, but I think the thing that I've never compromised on is that vision around, um, like quality.

Speaker A: Hi, I'm Natasha Jakuboski, Chief Innovation officer at Anomaly. Ah, a global marketing agency. Um, and this is my podcast, Professional Jealousy where I'm lucky enough to Talk to founders, CEOs and creatives that I'm impressed by and yes, a little envious of. Uh, so today I'm talking with April Gargiulo, the founder and CEO of Vintner's Daughter, an amazing, gorgeous, performance driven nutritional skincare company which I'll definitely ask about. Uh, we'll be chatting about her career path that started uh, at her parents winery before founding um, her skincare brand. Her thoughts about how to achieve cult product status, um, and how to succeed in the ridiculously cluttered world of beauty. April, Hello Natasha.

Speaker B: Thank you for having me. I'm so excited.

Speaker A: Um, for anyone who doesn't know Vintner's daughter, um, can you give us the elevator pitch?

Speaker B: The elevator pitch? We make, um, like you said, performance driven nutritional skincare. While most formulas take a couple hours to make, our formulas take between three and six weeks to make every single bottle. They begin with whole plants, some of the most nutrient rich whole plants in the world. Plants that we protect through this phyto radiance infusion technology. Because that is how we're able to have such a direct connection to our skin. We're able to speak, uh, truth to the skin through our formulas. And so not only do you put it on once and you know, you're a glowing goddess. It's really about just like our bodies when we feed it well, it's about this iterative process, this compounding process. So it was, um, or it is something that as you know, is very near and dear to my heart. We make three extraordinary products. Everything we do is about incredible multi beneficial, uh, steps. And we've only made three products in 12 years, which is, you know, insane in the beauty world.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, amazing, um, so many Questions. Because. Because you really do have a very different kind of take on it. And, and as you said, three products versus just constantly, you know, putting out new skus is really unusual. Um, what is the talk to me about you talk? Uh, you've trademarked the nutritional skincare. What is, how do you think about that element of the vintner's daughter? Uh, kind of.

Speaker B: Yeah. Well, so my background, my family makes wine in Napa Valley. So I grew up in this family, in this community that places an incredibly high value on quality, on craftsmanship, on the time it takes to make something, you know, extraordinary. And so I wanted to apply those. That methodology that just take no prisoners from a quality standpoint to skincare, which is what I knew wasn't out there. I, uh, mean, I was paying $400 for, um, you know, some fancy skincare cream, and before this all started, was looking at the ingredients and kind of doing my research and realizing that I paid $400 for this. And the bottle it's in cost more than what's inside. Right. So that was when I was like, oh, you know, oh my God, I need to do this. And so, like I said, I started to apply this to, um, to, to skin care. And the, you know, the nutritional skin care piece came out of that. It wasn't necessarily like, it has to be natural. It was really about, let me start where these traditional luxury skincare manufacturers are, and let me just keep peeling back the layers of shortcuts and cutting corners and choosing cheaper. Um, let me just keep, you know, peeling back that onion. And as I did, I got to a place where the only way I can have the impact on the skin that I want is if I start with whole plants. And so that whole plant, that phyto radiance infusion technology, it's half wisdom, half technology. Um, what we're doing is something people have been creating for centuries. Just no one is willing to take the time to do it anymore, basically. Um, so it's that nutritional piece. It's why we call it nutritional skincare because it's really feeding your skin at this very deep, deep level.

Speaker A: Amazing. Um, yeah. And like, so m. Most kind of skincare founders often start with. Well, if, you know, maybe they start with the lab. You started with a pregnancy, I read, like, can you take us back to the moment that you thought, okay, I'm going to do this? Did you?

Speaker B: Yeah. It, it was okay. So the pregnancy is what made me start looking at the back of those very expensive things. Right. Like that. That was it. And I, I, so I was you know, researching everything and again, what, what struck that stood out to me more than like anything being like. And most of the time it is unhealthy for you know, our, our skin, our, our bodies, the environment, our water systems was just how, again like I could not believe how cheaply made they were. It was like mind blowing how cheap they were. And so yes, it started from a place of pregnancy as first time moms, like, you know, you start looking at all the ingredients of like everything in your house. And I was really aware of everything else for the most part. And skin I, cause I always had bad skin. Like I dealt with, I've had, I shouldn't say bad, but whatever I had like um, you know, cystic acne and pigmentation and all the fun things that come as you get older. And um, and it was one place I had my head in the sand because I thought I would have to compromise to um, performance standpoint to use something that was natural. And so our formulas from day one were about performance. It was about how do I get the absolute best performance. I don't mean performance in the natural category, I mean performance, you know, and, and they're just performance. And it had to be multi beneficial performance because ironically I'm not the girl who wants to go in the bathroom and spend 30 minutes putting 12 different steps on. Like that is not my idea of fun. So it was really about creating fewer products and not as a gimmick. Right. I think there's a lot of brands now that are like fewer or better and they come out with three and then you know, six months later there's 50 like this. Right. This was, this was a real commitment to only create a game changing multi beneficial products so that you could use less and ultimately get better results.

Speaker A: Yeah. And how, I mean I, I know this is gonna sound idiotic, but like how did you literally start?

Speaker B: Oh, okay. Literally. Um, I, Yes. So there was, that, there was, there was um, women in my life who knew, knew that I wanted to do this. And I would um, and I would talk to one and then that person would say, you should probably go talk to this person. Or I would just start researching women that I, you know, looked up to. I'm in Northern California. It is um, and has been a place where um, herbalists and naturalists and women growing and creating these, you know, concoctions, medicine, healing potions, whatever you want to say. And there's this ecosystem and there are these women who were just incredibly generous with their time and like I said I would talk to one and they'd be like, who else do you think I should talk to? And then, you know, two more and it would just be this sort of, you know, tree that grew out from there. So that eventually was how the formula was, was created. I had a very kind of precise vision of what I wanted the formula to do. It needed to be um, uh, I knew I wanted it to be an oil format. I knew it had to be incredible for acne prone skin me and I knew it had to again have this multi beneficial. So I needed it to lift and plump and um, and mitigate, um, uh, pigmentation and uh, you know, create cellular turnover. Like it was a, it had to be a lot, you know, not just

Speaker A: natural, but it works.

Speaker B: No, this wasn't like a finishing oil. This had to be a high powered serum. So by the time we've, we had the, by the time I had the actual formula developed, I knew that it was. We started with these incredibly nutrient rich whole plants. Over three weeks we, we captured all that beautiful nutrition, all in the perfect ratios. And we had this extraordinary bottle of serum, active botanical serum. So coming from winemaking, it takes three years to make a bottle of wine, right? Three years and then aging and what have you, and then a year of growing all of the grapes. So I, uh, you know, my time horizon that I was thinking, you know, that I was used to was like three to five years to put out a product. So I thought three weeks was like nothing. I was like, this is genius. This only take weeks. And, and then I started talking to labs and they were like, you've lost your mind. Like oh you. Aren't you like, aren't you cute? Like, you know, like little kind of pat on the head. And because they had never worked on anything like this, they never spent more than three to six hours making anything. Like it just wasn't in their wheelhouse. Like they, it wasn't like in their vernacular, like they didn't even know how to wrap their head around it. And um, so that was probably also like that was something from a professional standpoint that had I not had that kind of, that winemaking world behind me of just this understanding of how important time is, how important your raw materials are and, and that, and how important it is to honor those, I don't know that I would have had the, I don't know, the backbone sounds dramatic, but I don't know that I would have had the perseverance to keep moving forward and saying no, no, no. This formula Matters. This is important. Like, this is game changing. So that getting the lab took a while.

Speaker A: Yeah. I do feel like, you know, it is very different from how a lot of skincare brands come up, where it's just about some pretty packaging and some contract manufacturing. You know, the idea of taking your time really thinking about, you know, the ingredients and the mix and the kind of the purposefulness of your is, is an amazing part of, you know, your story that I feel like quite a few brands play with the slow beauty or the those kinds of thoughts, but then as you said, then they come out with tons of products.

Speaker B: Uh, many are. And it's the world we live in. It's not just skincare. I think many are. Like, the marketing plan comes first.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Do you know what I mean? Like the, the marketing idea comes first and then product comes second. And for me, it was product from day one. Like, it.

Speaker A: Ah.

Speaker B: I didn't even, didn't even. I didn't even think of what a name was going to be for this. Like, nothing. Right. It was just about what was inside that bottle.

Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I do love the name and obviously there's a wink there, uh, to the fact that you are a Venice daughter. Um, and it is a gorgeous brand. Like, how did you. So you've got these amazing kind of formula then how did you do the branding? How did you think? I know it's sustainable and good packaging, but, um, in terms of the actual

Speaker B: design stuff, um, it was. Everything we do is driven by performance. Right? Like, we don't, we don't craft a scent, we don't. Everything we do is about performance. Every, every ingredient we choose, every, everything, every box we choose, every glass we choose, every, every seal we choose. It's all about, like, ensuring and maintaining the performance of it. So, I mean, uh, you've seen our packaging. It's pretty simple. I mean, bright. It's very simple. Like, you know, there's, there's. The idea wasn't about let me sell this based on packaging. Right. That was the thing that I was kind of like grossed out by in skincare that was like, oh, I just, again, I just paid for the packaging because what's inside is like worthless. So, um, but the, you know, our glass comes from, um, a scientific manufacturer, um, in Germany who created this very specific kind of glass. It looks black, but it's actually really, really dark violet. And it is, um, only allows certain light rays to go in, so it

Speaker A: doesn't raise the inside.

Speaker B: Exactly. That's something from winemaking. Like, something like I know is critical for preserving and even being able to enhance what's inside the bottle. Like, you would never put, you know, a, um, a Napa Valley Cabernet or a Bordeaux in a clear glass bottle, right. And expect it to be beautiful. You, you have to protect and honor what's inside. So it was never a choice about marketing. I mean, if I, if I was making a choice on marketing, Natasha, I would have the clearest glass ever. Because have you seen how beautiful that color is? Like, clear as day. It would be like, you could just like swirl it around and just like, you know, enjoy that color.

Speaker A: But interesting, um, I do think, I mean, how. One of the interesting things that you've managed to do that I feel, again, a lot of brands are hoping to create a cult hero product, but that's what you achieved. You know, you had celebrities, you managed to kind of get this, insiders, cult beauty, uh, brand status. How, how did you do that? Was it, uh, did you do anything or it just happened because people loved the product or like, what sort of marketing did you do in the earlier years? Did people find?

Speaker B: I didn't. I mean, I made great product like that. Literally, that's what it was. And people told each other. I knew no one. I mean, I was coming from Napa Valley, I was coming from a wine growing. I didn't, I knew no one. Um, and just word spread. Natasha. I started this. I had a, um, I had like a website built with like a PayPal account in the back. My, um, my first email about this was from a Hotmail account, right? It was like so lo F. I was doing so low fi.

Speaker A: Your first run, how many products was your first run?

Speaker B: Oh, I had to beg my lab to, um, maybe. And their normal kind of minimum, minimum I think was 10,000, 5,000, I can't remember now. Um, and I had to beg them to only do, I think 500. Um, and also that felt like jumping off a ledge to me. Like, oh, my God, how am I going to sell 500? Um, and then what happened is I start, I mean, you know, the first 100 orders were from friends and families, I'm sure. But then I started to. Because I would pack every box like it was me. And so then I'm printing the labels and all this stuff. But then I started seeing people that, like, I didn't know and from places I've never been. And it just started growing, I think with anything that becomes what, you know, cult or what have you. Everyone sort of thinks that it just was shot out of a cannon and it was there, but there's so much work and um. No, I was, I'm, I was really lucky. I'm still really lucky today that the people who use Vintner's Daughter, um, like very generously tell their friends, tell their family. I mean, we've heard stories of people getting stopped on the street. What are you using on your skin? And. Right. And so, um, it's, it's. I always say we grew G to G, girlfriend to girlfriend. And that. That was it. That, that's still it.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And yes, some of those, some of those girlfriends are, you know, and Rachel, you know what I mean? Some of those girlfriends are big. So, um. Right.

Speaker A: Okay. Any tips for people thinking about. I mean, I do think beauty is one of the most that and beverages, maybe one of the most crazy cluttered, you know, just so many brands, almost disposable brands that just come and go. Uh, almost for people thinking about going into the beauty space.

Speaker B: Well, it's. Okay. So this is something I don't really talk that much about and I. It's, it's, it's woven throughout our brand. But if you don't know you, you won't see it. I think it's subliminal. I think you feel it, but you might not see it. Um, I think anytime if you pick up a bottle and it makes you feel like less than. And that's why you should buy it, I think you have to kind and I. This is maybe woo, woo, I don't know. But like I think it's real. I think the beauty industry tries to separate us from ourselves. Tries to tell us that we need to get fixed because we're broken, we need to get corrected because we're wrong. We need to not age because apparently us being dead is, you know, the preferable thing. We need to transform ourselves because, you know, we're not, we're not fine the way we are. Like there's just a lot of words that get used a lot and they're whatever. It's not like they're. Each one is earth, like earth shattering, but it's like an accumulation. Right. And so I think if you're, you're buying something because you think you need to fix something or correct something or like you're, like you're feeling somehow badly about yourself. Like that bottle is not going to do it. Like buy something that makes you feel beautiful. Right. And so with us, we don't use any of those words. Again. I could put it in a clear patch package or a Clear glass and spray paint, anti aging, all of it. And, uh, fix and correct and transform in all these words. But we don't. And I think there's a feeling there. Like, I really think there is a feeling there that whether you recognize it or not, when you're using Vintner's Daughter, like, you feel good. I. We have. We have. I mean, our community is extraordinary. But we've had community members, like many, write something to the effect of. This has changed my relationship to my skin.

Speaker A: Uh-huh.

Speaker B: And for me, that's a huge piece of it. I would love for women to go from a place of, um, kind of feeling insecure about their skin to a place of joy and confidence and gratitude in their skin. And there's a lot that goes into that, of course. But, um, if I can do any piece of that, it is something that is really important to me.

Speaker A: Yeah. No, and I think that's so different. And hopefully something. You know, I think there's a. A kind of bifurcation in the market, almost like you've got the anti aging and to be honest, like the. I mean, I'm always amazed. I live in soho, um, in New York, and. And I cannot tell you how many injection med spa places are just popping up that sell, you know, Botox fillers, but also GLP ones that you can just buy. Like, you've got that whole.

Speaker B: You don't need a prescription.

Speaker A: I don't think so. I mean, I think. I mean, like, you can inject all these things and then the whole kind of. Yeah. The whole new look of women today and older celebrities, and then you've got the other side that, uh. I think there is, like, a reaction to that and, like, talking about something that's more about feeling good and confidence. I think there's kind of a. A split out there. Um, hard.

Speaker B: Right. I mean, because neither of those is bad or good or whatever. Right. Like, it's. It's. You have to go on what feels good to you. But I think the thing that's hard is understanding, like, not the what, but, like, the why. Like, understanding the why is really hard. Right. But it's just. It's just hard, um, and getting increasingly hard every single day. And I don't think any of us get to see a full spectrum of information or full spectrum of. Of viewpoints because, you know, our apertures, because of algorithms, what have you, like, just keep getting smaller and smaller and smaller. So it's really hard to see, like, above, um, this kind of world that we live in.

Speaker A: Yeah. No, do you, I mean, do you have a. Why? Like something that you think about in terms of what, what uh, what is kind of driving what you're doing or what the brand is about? I'm just wondering as a strategist, I'm wondering if you have like an actual.

Speaker B: Yeah, I have, I mean I, I have our vision, our mission is to become one of the very first luxury skincare brands in the U.S. right? I, I, we're creating. I'm, I'm not. This isn't about quarterly earnings or, I mean, listen, we have to have a profitable company, don't get me wrong. But this isn't about building a company and gets, how about I say it like this? This isn't about a company getting, getting built to sell three years later and then I don't care what happens after that. Right? Like I got my money out of it.

Speaker A: I'm good.

Speaker B: I want to build a heritage company. I would want to build something that like our values, um, last, our values are impactful, um, not only to our community but to the beauty world. I mean I came into this thinking, oh, no one's going, no one's going to use anti aging anymore, uh, in like five years. Like that's ridiculous. No one's going to use. And meanwhile, like what do I know? Um, and then so you know, I've got a big poster in my office. It says this was for our 10 year anniversary. It says 10 years down, 100 more to go. And that's what I, that's my, that's my horizon, that, that's our North Star.

Speaker A: How do you think about. So you mentioned six weeks, uh, kind of development process for um, for a formula. How do you scale? I mean it is luxury price points. But how do you think about scaling and keeping that cult status? Like there's a tension there. Like how do you grow quality and still kind of look to grow?

Speaker B: I mean quality is always number one. Like the quality is never compromised. Sourcing is never compromised. I mean we're also a B corp, so sustainability is never compromised. Impact on our earth and her people is never compromised. Positive beauty never compromised. And so to that end we have to find partners who um, are ready to embrace that. And we're really lucky that there are. Right, we have um, and I mean retail, uh, partners, but I really mean like operational and labs and um, you know, people who are making our boxes, people who are um, you know, growing our raw materials. That um, that ecosystem is something that is really supportive of us. And we're not, you Know, we've had years where it's just like insane growth. Like, you know, you're always, like, holding on for dear life. Um, you know, we have, um, a much more kind of sustainable growth trajectory that is very intentional and again, allows us to grow for, um, you know, decades versus, you know, quarters.

Speaker A: Yeah. And do you do marketing now or.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, I mean, I'm talking to you.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: What's your.

Speaker A: What's your strategy now in terms of, um.

Speaker B: I mean, we're not doing, uh, big advertising. We have like, um, ads we do on Meta, but it's not. We don't. We don't ever any. Nothing goes on sale. We never. It's never a buy one, get one free. It's never a bundle ever. Just doesn't happen. Um, so we're, you know, we have incredible, um, creator communities. We have incredible, you know, stockist partners who. There's a physical retail environment that women people can go into and experience our brand. There's, um, it's. It's quieter marketing, I would say. Um, and like many kind of smaller things that kind of add up. But our women, our community, I mean, these are really discerning people.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: It's the thing that I know most. We had a. We had a study done on our, you know, kind of under. Trying to understand our demographics and, um. And, uh, you know, intuitively I already knew this.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: What we realized is that there's really not a single. It's a. It's a very big generation or age range. She's not just living on the coast. What we know is that she is. They are like, just. They are the most discerning women. They're the most discerning women in their group. They're the most discerning women in, you know, their community. They don't settle for less. And I don't mean they're the most like that they have. They're spending the most money. I mean, what they buy, what they bring into their house has to live up to values.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And

Speaker A: shared m. Mindset around the kinds of products they buy. I can kind of almost imagine the brands outside of beauty that they're buying.

Speaker B: Right, exactly. It's brands with integrity.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Uh, I mean, that's. I don't know. But ultimately that's what it is.

Speaker A: Would you consider Fitness Daughter almost like a quiet luxury brand? Does it fit that kind of world?

Speaker B: I don't even know what that means anymore. Yeah. 25 years ago. Yes. Like, do you know what I mean? It's hard to even point to who that is anymore. Right. Uh, 25 years ago you were like, easy breezy, like, that's who it is. Not so quiet anymore. So, um, it's, you know, and, and the luxury piece is questionable too. So it's, you know, it's. I would say we're craftsmen. I was saying, like, we're, we're craftsmanship. We are the person making the most, you know, in a studio in Kyoto, making the most beautiful knife. We're the person in, um, oh my gosh, like weaving the most beautiful basket. We're the person who is carving something just perfectly. It's, it's about this level of craftsmanship and attention to detail and creating something that is incredibly positive, um, impactful, not just for a minute, but for a lifetime.

Speaker A: Yeah. Um, I know that you've got some new products coming out.

Speaker B: Yes. I never get to talk about new Natasha. And this is a big deal. Like, I'm already like, wow, that's, I forgot about it already. I know.

Speaker A: So, I mean, like, what, what. So first, you know, not that this is radically increasing, but like it kind of is because you're going from three to a couple more. So what, what prompted you to start thinking about, um, growing, growing your portfolio,

Speaker B: getting crazy and adding, and adding stuff? Well, one of them is a limited edition that we, that we do every, every year. There's a, there's a, the, the quality of the harvest is where we want it, we do it. So this is, I think, our third or fourth. We do a scent, so it's a limited edition scented oil. We work with a master, um, perfumer who, um, left kind of, um, synthetic scent world to really have felt like, like more of a challenge with natural. She also, um, and this is something that I don't love about traditional scent, is that it's so static, like it doesn't evolve. Um, and so she really wanted that, um, that challenge really. And so we work with her. It's called Understory. Understory is this space between, in a forest, between the canopy and the, in the ground floor and everything that's happening in between. And that was really what the scent was meant to represent. And so we have our, like I said, I think it's our third. Well, it's our third or fourth vintage, vintage, um, edition of, of Understory, which we're really excited about. And then we have our, um, so that Phyto Radiance infusion piece that is, that's the heart and soul of every product we make. That's the three to five Week process that um, this, we've been working on it for a couple of years to be able to make it even um, more concentrated. And we finally were able to do it. And so our cleanser, Active Renewal Cleanser will be the first product to um, be released with that updated phyto ah radiance infusion. So we're really excited about that. The brightening, um, the botanicals we use in it are botanicals that for like centuries have been used by herbalists, medicine people to help heal because they stimulate circulation. And that healing process is really what a big part of it is brightening, but also um, building elastin, helping to build collagen. So what we wanted to do with cleanser is turn a step that was kind of a throwaway step, right? Like yeah, cleanse, um, and then you get to the, the real stuff. We wanted to make cleansing a treatment step. We wanted you to begin the actual serious skin care with cleanser. And so that our active Renewal Cleanser begins that process by increasing that circulation under the skin that is still brightening and building collagen and elastin. Well after you wash it off, and you wash it off, your skin is completely clean. It feels so like balanced. And one of our community members wrote in and said it. My skin feels so bouncy, which is a weird description but that is how it actually feels. You're like touching, you know, you're like. Have you ever been to one of those, um, like a track field outside or a sports court? And it's not that, that like whatever that feel is, that is, that's how your skin feels after, after cleanser.

Speaker A: So yeah, no, I love that kind of sensorial feedback that your skin is feeling alive and plump and juicy and ready. Um, okay, interesting. Well, I look forward to trying that. Um, what do you think that your consumers aren't getting from, from existing brands? Like what, what are brands doing wrong when they talk to this consumer? This discerning, I don't know with the

Speaker B: actual formula and the messaging that they're trying to build a long time, a long time, um, relationship with her. Right. The pace at which the formulas that they're creating or formulas that they know they're going to obsolesce within a year unless they take off. Most brands have, let's say they have 50 SKUs, 50 products. Two of them or three of them are what really drive 80% of the business. And so the other ones are really there as just kind of marketing campaigns. Right. They come and they go and um, I don't know, I think you, for me, as a customer, I just, that I might buy it once, but I don't know that I can create, um, an actual trusting relationship with that kind of pace.

Speaker A: I was thinking about in terms of other products.

Speaker B: Well, I was gonna say. Wait, how would you answer that question?

Speaker A: I mean, I, I think you're the expert. Well, I, uh, don't know about that, but yeah, I think what's interesting is, I mean, I work with a lot of big brands as well as small ones, and I, I think it's hard on many levels. You know, there is a difference between a brand that you can see the why and you can feel the soul and, and you know, your story hangs together and builds over time because it comes from a belief. Yeah. Uh, which I think more and more I do look around, especially in beauty. Like I work in lots of categories, but I do think there's a kind of, we're entering, we've been in an era of kind of disposable branding because it's become too easy to create something and yet people aren't thinking about what's the real need that people have or what's the real difference that they're delivering on. So then it does become packaging or, you know, uh, uh, a marketing strategy. So I don't know. I, I, you know, I know you've been around for a while, but I think there is like this return back to, you know, whether it's the slow beauty or the intentional, you know, thank God people are moving away from 12 steps, you know, and I think these things come and go. But yeah, I think I'm definitely seeing more brands that are, um, starting to appear and be, you know, get, get noticed because they're the reaction to all of that kind of disposability. The kind of superficial.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's um. And I 100% see everything you're saying and it'll be, it's going to be fascinating. The cycles are so fast now.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Do you know what I mean? Like, they just, it's, it's like you can't, as soon as you kind of can describe it, it's on to the next.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So it's, um, yeah, it's, it's, the pace is, is staggering. Yeah.

Speaker A: Staggering. I mean, what, ah, where do you see your brand going in the future? Like you are Nutritional skincare. Do you ever get it think about going into kind of ingestibles or into other products that, that kind of do the inside out or are there.

Speaker B: That's a Great question.

Speaker A: The perfume thing is also interesting because I know that's more of a. Yeah, it's. It's less core and it's a gorgeous kind of product, but, like, that's also somewhere that. Yeah, that's sort of, um, have gone to the candles, the perfumes.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Like, what's. What's in the future for. For Venice.

Speaker B: Remember, we also have a real, uh, commitment to safety, um, of not only our bodies, but our world. And so there was a lot in fragrance, candle, uh, and fragrance in general that doesn't live up to that. So we have. There are these beautiful constraints we have that I love, that I think are really something. They're like, you know, they're like really beautiful guardrails. And, um, so the scent was. Is something that's really exciting. Again, we make this small little batch every year. It really. It's the same formula every year, but because we're working with whole plants. Vintage. I keep saying vintage from the wine world, but harvests are different. Right. The. The. Just the conditions of the growing season impact the scent. And so it's always really fun to see what's going to, you know, what's going to happen. And, um. So, I don't know. You know, I think body would be a really, um, interesting place to play in if we could. I mean, remember our skins? Our largest. Oregon.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Right. Largest organ. And so I. For me, uh, you know, everything we put on our skin is. It's impactful to our overall system. And so right now we've only ever focused on face. Although I would like to drench myself in all of it. Active treatment, essence, because it's so pumping and lifting. I'm always like, I want to get into one of those, like, spray, um, tanning booths and just have it, like, you know what I mean? Like, douse. So.

Speaker A: Sounds very luxurious.

Speaker B: I know, right? I've actually been talking about that for a while. I need to just see if I could make that happen. Um, anyway, so I think Bodi is a really interesting place for us to move into, just because I want to be able to treat our body in the same way. Um, but I. Yeah. Ingestibles, for whatever reason, is never really. And I know that's such a huge, huge market. Um, it's not super, um. What do I want to say? Supervised in the United States.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. A little bit of the wild west. Yeah. I can't see you going into that. I mean, body definitely makes sense. Uh, and sense makes sense more than ingestibles, I guess. The nutritional kind of beauty. If I'm honest, that. That phrase has always thrown me a little bit when I. When I think.

Speaker B: Well, tell me why.

Speaker A: I think because you have so many other great ideas as part of the brand, and it kind of.

Speaker B: You think it's too limiting.

Speaker A: No, I think it's.

Speaker B: I'm getting free advice right now, Natasha.

Speaker A: What do I know? I think you have so many other things, and it's almost not limiting. It's more of a kind of red herring in a funny way. Ooh, tell me the way that your. The infusions work and things like that. Like, you've got so many other language that you have this phrase, and it takes you. It takes your mind without knowing anything to something else slightly. I don't know. Like what?

Speaker B: No, come on. I know. For real. You can't hurt my feelings, Natasha. Just.

Speaker A: I know. I just. Just the idea, like, nutritional sounds. I get the kind of skin food kind of thought, but it goes to

Speaker B: romantic or it doesn't. Romantic's not the right word.

Speaker A: It sounds m. It always seems too kind of like food nutritional, like. And I know it's kind of the skin food idea, but I feel like there's so many other thoughts with. With the Venice. Anyway, we're gonna move on. Um, we're gonna move on.

Speaker B: Um, I would like to keep talking about this.

Speaker A: Yeah, we'll talk offline. Anyway. Any.

Speaker B: I mean, I'm joking, but now you've

Speaker A: got, like, anything I can. If I can ever be helpful, uh, then, uh, let me know. I would happily talk to you about anything. Um, we're running out of time. Um, I'm wondering, and I can kind of tell, but as a strategist, I would love to hear you talk about, um, how what you think makes a good brand. Um, and I'm just curious if. If you have any favorite brands outside of beauty.

Speaker B: Oh, that's a great question. I, um, mean what I think makes a great brand. Truth. Right? I mean, you know what I mean? Like, it's. Sadly, that's not super easy to find, right? Like, truth. Truth. Um, and I think, like, it's funny because you're coming from the world like a strategist, right? Uh, we're just moving along. Like, you know, nutritional skin care. That'll be something that I take to my executive. I'm like, let's put. This really smart woman just told me this guy is, like, who knows what she's talking about? Like, putting it on the table. Let's talk. Um, and. Yeah, so. And then what Other companies. Oh my gosh. Um, there. Where do I begin? There's I instead, not companies. I think of people that are doing their work. I think about this woman, um, in England or in the uk who's making Anne Marie Sullivan, who. She makes these like the most beautiful baskets you've ever seen in your life. Um, I think about, um. Oh my God. I mean, I don't even know where to begin. I have, um, I have a interior designer friend who just how she sources is just like so perfect and intentional and, you know, with integrity. Um, I, Yeah, integrity.

Speaker A: Brands with integrity. I, yeah, I can, I can, I can see that.

Speaker B: And I think there's expression. I like brands that start with a natural material.

Speaker A: What's the hardest part about trying to grow a brand in a trend driven competitive category?

Speaker B: The hardest part is new, like getting new. Um, um, community. Just, just now, it didn't used to be like this now because it's so noisy. And again, we have these incredibly discerning, discerning people. I think a lot of them have just taken themselves out of it. They're like, they recognize that it's literally just destructive, basically noise, and they've just kind of taken themselves out of them. So I think like, that world of discovery has become increasingly hard for us. And with that said, once she discovers us, we have a community that's incredibly loyal. And so there's like both sides of it, right? The kind of this incredible joy and gratitude we have for this community that just supports us and loves us and the piece of. It's really hard for them to find us these days.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Just so much noise. Um, what do you think has, uh, been, uh, kind of part of how you've been successful as a founder? Like, uh, you came from wine and obviously there's storytelling and craftsmanship and attention to detail. But like, how, how do you, you know, you're a founder, you're a CEO, you've successfully, you know, this brand has lasted. Like, um, what, what do you think has been kind of part of your kind of success in terms of being a founder?

Speaker B: Well, I mean I've every, I've made every mistake there is to make. Um, no question. And I've learned from them, like really learned from them. And I, But I think the thing that I've never compromised on is that vision around, um, like quality and what's in the bottle. Um, the, the sustainability piece is something I have never compromised on. The things that are like the kind of the three, the three legs of our stool, right? This like Incredible product like nothing else. Like it never compromise on any piece of this.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And then the sustainability piece that again, it's not, I think what we do is table stakes. But Natasha, like from an environmental and positive beauty and giving back, I think it is table stakes. Um, so it's always kind of there. Yeah, you don't necessarily always see, but it's something I've always really kept a very clear vision on.

Speaker A: Yeah. No, so interesting. Um, I'm going to be moving into quick fire rounds. But um, I'm just wondering, I mean like, I can imagine, I'm imagining that like where you live in uh, Napa. Beautiful. Like I'm, I'm, I want to understand what do you do for yourself, uh, to ground yourself every day? I'm curious, like.

Speaker B: Well, I am.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: I mean I, I start my day with this, this tea that's hand harvested from this very small family plot in Taiwan. Like I, you know, like it's, it's simple but it's real. Right. I, um, like almost unethically use a clear teapot because I like, it's like almost meditate. Meditative, um, to watch the. Because they start like tight little balls and then they bloom.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, so that's a piece of it. I, you know, I have, I have a beautiful family that I love, like being really intentional about spending time with them. I, um, my office is in the Presidio. It's literally in a national park. Um, like San Francisco Bay is outside my window. I cold plunge in there with a group of women often and that's. I do things that connect me to myself in our world. Like that, that's the thing. Like the tea is connective to our world and nature. Getting in the water is connected. I like to be in the flow. And again, this is so woo woo and the whole thing. But I think it's real. I like to be in that, that energy flow. Right. Like, I really appreciate that and have cultivated, um, an ability to kind of like drop into it.

Speaker A: Yeah. Amazing. All right, we're going to go to more quick fire, slightly more frivolous. We're going to start with.

Speaker B: Well, I'm, I'm frivolous too. Don't worry.

Speaker A: Um, what is one beauty trend you wish would just disappear?

Speaker B: Anti aging. Just the word. Like, I get that we all want to be youthful and you know, all the things, but the word anti aging I think is, um, a little predatory.

Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. Um, is there any belief about business that you've changed your mind on over the years?

Speaker B: Ooh that's a great question. I think. I think I underestimated the importance of team at the very beginning. I think I underestimated, like, the idea that I've got this great product and I have this. This idea of how it's going to be in the world. And I don't need this. I don't need an extraordinary team, like, now. I have an extraordinary team now. Like, I. I know that's probably even more important than having an, uh, incredible strategy.

Speaker A: Interesting. That's.

Speaker B: Sorry, Natasha. I hope that doesn't fly in the face of. Of all the things you're. You're doing.

Speaker A: No, no, that. I mean, I'm sad that we didn't talk more about team. Um, I'm curious.

Speaker B: Everything.

Speaker A: Do you have, um, a kind of. I spoke to, for example, um, Annie, the, uh, founder of Credo Beauty.

Speaker B: Oh, I love Annie.

Speaker A: Yeah, I can imagine that you would get on.

Speaker B: I love her.

Speaker A: She had, like, some criteria that helped that she'd kind of developed to understand who to hire. Do you have any tips or things you look for?

Speaker B: We have very real criteria. We have a very precise, lengthy process. Um, you know, and knock on wood. I feel like we've gotten it down and it doesn't always work. I have a friend who's, like, insanely successful, and I remember going through an era where we were hiring people. It just wasn't working or what have you. And I was like, I just don't know what I'm doing wrong. He was like, April, it's 50 50.

Speaker A: Whatever you do is like, ah, Any. Any.

Speaker B: We're doing much better than 50, 50 these days.

Speaker A: Any. Any quick insights into things that you look for? Like, what's a vintner's daughter? Kind of. Is there a type of.

Speaker B: I mean, for us, there needs to be a baseline of knowledge, obviously, experience. But, like, we really look for, um, like, passion and enthusiasm and, like, the energy. Remember, we're a small team. You know, this is not startup, but this is still that kind of mentality. So somebody who's just like, ready to learn, ready to grow, ready to kind of get her hands, or their hands into m. Into everything. It's. It's more of a mindset that. Or I should say mindset is a really big piece of what we look for.

Speaker A: Okay, Best career advice. Worst career advice you've ever had.

Speaker B: The best is. I mean, my parents are incredibly supportive. They're like, no risk, no reward. April. Like, m. I do. Like, in my head, I can hear them being like, what's the worst that could happen. You're not going to die, right? And you're like, oh, okay, if I see it in that light? Okay, um, worst, I think, I think like getting ahead of your skis, at least for me. This idea of like, higher and they will come wasn't, um, something that worked for me because it didn't work for our company because there I wasn't going to compromise the values who we are in order to like fill those, those shoes, if that makes any sense whatsoever.

Speaker A: Yeah. Um, what do you think your superpowers are that have helped you, uh, be successful in life?

Speaker B: Like just holding a vision. I don't know, being stubborn. Um, I don't know, just believing in what we're doing. So just with so much heart and hustle. You know what I mean? Like, I, you know, we all work really hard. Like there, it's, you know, to make this dream. Uh, it's a, it's everyday understanding that that's what's, that North Star is there and that's what we're moving towards.

Speaker A: Amazing. Last question. Um, tell me someone or something that you're professionally jealous of.

Speaker B: Um, okay. I don't know if it's jealous, but it's like these women that I just have such admiration for the company they build, who they are. Um, there's a company in Australia called Mecca, um, and Mecca is like imagine, imagine like a beauty emporium that just was discovery and you were super interested. But there's many, right? There's like, I don't know that they have as many doors as Sephora, but like that kind of scale. And they have built this company that is just, um, like so values oriented, so mission align. And um, and it's a big, you know, it's a big company and they've held onto that. And I just, I mean, again, I have like goosebumps. I actually got got, I got to meet with them yesterday. I flew down, they were here and I flew down to LA to get to meet with them. And um, and, and they're just like so cool. I don't know. You know, like, they wear the coolest, they wear like the coolest clothes. Like, they're really just like confident, amazing, smart women and they want to help you and they want to be, you know, all the things. And so the company that they've built I think is a, um, embodiment. I, I don't know of all of that, that they've really held a vision for, which I think is beautiful. And I know how hard it is and I can't imagine how hard it is at their scale.

Speaker A: Yeah. Amazing. Um, April, thank you so much.

Speaker B: Thank you, Natasha. Huh.

Speaker A: Wonderful. Um, I'm gonna interview.

Speaker B: I'm gonna start a podcast so that I can interview.

Speaker A: Let me know if there's anything that I can do to help. Um, all right, I'm gonna read us out. Thank you so much for listening. I, um, hope you enjoyed this episode. I love April's philosophy and approach to brand building, which is just, you know, the epitome of authenticity and standing your ground and having an idea with integrity and then building purposefully and not compromising. Um, yeah, and so at odds with so many of the, uh, kind of brands coming out today. So amazing. Um, if you like this podcast, please subscribe, share. Um, you can find them wherever you get podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, Apple. Um, get in touch with any questions, feedback, or anyone that you want to see featured. Um, thank you.