Powering ambitious female leadership with Medik8

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Hello, and welcome to Inflection Point, the podcast that explores the crucial moments that shape a company's growth. Through conversations with founders, leaders and entrepreneurs, we explore what those moments look like and how to harness them. We normally spend this time with a CEO or a founder, but today we're going deep into the engine room with two of the people heavily responsible for building the machine and the growth, namely the CFO and the cpo.

Speaker A: We know that we want to grow very fast. We want to go international. How else can we do it in a faster way? Possible.

Speaker C: You also just need to be really, really clear on what's critical and what's not right. You cannot do everything. There is too much to do at any one point in time.

Speaker B: I'm Freddie West, Managing Director at Inflection, stepping in for our, uh, usual host, Tim Smallbone. And for this international Women's Day episode, I'm delighted to welcome Lilia Santos, Chief Financial officer and Amy Campbell, Chief People Officer at Medicaid, a science based skincare brand and part of the Inflection portfolio, which recently sold a majority stake to l'. Oreal. We're going to talk about what it actually takes to achieve Medicaid's feat of more than quadrupling sales and tripling headcount in less than five years. And we're going to explore something unusual about Medicaid. A leadership team that has been predominantly female, not by design, but because something about this company attracted and retained brilliant women. What was that and what can the rest of us learn from it? Liliya, Amy, welcome and thank you for joining us.

Speaker A: Thank you so much.

Speaker C: Really happy to be here. Thanks for having us.

Speaker B: So, before we get into the Medicaid story, I'd love to hear a little bit about what brought you both to this point. What made you chose a, uh, PE backed company with everything that that entails? Amy, maybe I can start with you.

Speaker C: Yeah, sure. So prior to Medicaid, I spent 10 years at, ah, Unilever. I joined on the grad scheme there. I landed my director role there. And at that point in time I was very, very close to and exposed to our, uh, talent strategy and, and actually I'm very pragmatic about how I, uh, build my career. I like to pay attention to the dynamics in the organizations that I'm in, what they're looking for, what they value, um, what they say they want versus how they're actually behaving. And also I was very cognizant from an industry perspective that it's actually really easy to get Pigeonholed into either being big business or being small startup growth PE type companies and I didn't want to get stuck. So what I was looking for at the point at which I decided was uh, the right time to look for a different experience was uh, something super high growth. The purpose led element was always incredibly important for me in terms of how I landed at Unilever, but also what I wanted for my career but also because of my breadth of experience from an HR perspective. I wanted something where I could really own that HR space. Initially I had a brief blip into another PE backed organisation which actually unfortunately was in administration by the time I landed there, but then landed on my feet at Medicare which kind of ticked all my boxes because it was much closer aligned to something that I was passionate about from a beauty and a consumer product perspective.

Speaker B: Fantastic. And has it given you all of those elements?

Speaker C: Absolutely. And more that I wasn't expecting.

Speaker B: And Lilia, same question to you. What brought you to this point today?

Speaker A: Definitely not to pe straight away because I've been at uh, Medicaid for 13 years now, so joined the business in a very different stage. Before that I spent 10 years in engineering companies. So very different, very male dominated. And then at some point I decided to move not only in industry but also country. So that's when I moved to the uk. And from the first interactions during the recruitment process I was very engaged with vision uh, that uh, founders at the time, uh, Elliott and Dean had for the business and they were at that point in a very, very small business, very different. We were 20 people, they were already very clear in what they wanted and from the beginning it was very clear. For me that was going to be an exciting journey and definitely delivered.

Speaker B: And for those who don't know Medicaid, could you give us a little whistle stop tour of the story to date and the success factors?

Speaker A: I think the main thing is the vision that Elliot had uh, when he started the brand. And it was very clear from the ambition that we were very small in a pool of very big fish. So there was a lot of effort put towards the concept of the products, the concept of what is our proposition. And the fun part was when we joined Inflection, the combination between us and the Inflection team for five years ago was, was more about we want to be a premium skincare brand. We know that we want to grow very fast, we want to go international. Global expansion was always there. What else do we need to do or how else can we do it in a faster way? Possible So I think that's where the pressure of being fast and bold started, with inflection, um, and that maturity came to fruition, uh, for us and bringing people like, uh, Amy and so many other high, uh, level, uh, individuals to the team. And now it's an entire new world with l', Oreal, the biggest, um, beauty brand in the world. So what else can we aim for?

Speaker B: It's quite a journey. You talk about moving fast, Amy. Can you tell us what that feels like on the inside? How do you navigate your way through that kind of pace?

Speaker C: Yeah, I think you have, like, you have to love it because it's relentless. I think it's a bit of a joke with my team, like, oh, yeah, how's your week been? Busy. But isn't it always, like, it's never going to stop? And I think you just need to kind of love and embrace that because it is relentless. Um, and I think when you're, you know, if you think about the normal dynamics from a CPA perspective, it's all of that. And then incrementally you're adding like, I think we added 100 headcount last year. Uh, so when you think about that off the base of the organization, that's quite crazy. And we're doing similar again. So there's the, you know, how do you maintain the culture? How do you make sure you're finding the right people? How do you make sure that people have the capacity for onboarding as well as upskilling? Because everything needs evolving in the same way that any business PE backs would be like, there's always capability bits. You also just need to be really, really clear on what's critical and what's not right. You cannot do everything. There is too much to do at any one point in time. Um, and so I think just having a really, really clear sense and actually that, I think is what the team has always had. Like, we've had a very, very clear ambition focus, very clear financial frameworks m which have come from Liliya. So, like, everything that we've done has been very, very well thought through. Hard choices, but, like, very clear on what we're doing, what we're not doing.

Speaker B: And you touched there briefly on plans to add 100 more people to the team this year. What are the factors that drive success in that regard? How do you manage the addition of so many new people?

Speaker C: Yeah, I think being really clear on like, the culture and the fit and the profile that you need is absolutely critical. Like, it cannot be understated. Like, people who look Absolutely fantastic on paper. But you've got to be clear on what your business needs. You've got to be clear on the attitude of those individuals and how they think about things and how they approach challenges and communication and all that kind of stuff has been like. It's absolutely critical in the leadership team. And I think the other piece is making sure you're very, very transparent in that process about what they can expect. I think that really helps set uh, people up for success.

Speaker B: And just before that, you referenced the financial structures that Liliya had put in place. And Liliya, we don't often talk about the relationship between the chief people officer and the chief financial officer, but it's a critical relationship and is often forming the backbone of everything that happens at the company. Can you talk a little bit about how your two roles work together and they're dynamics that you found for yourselves at the leadership team?

Speaker A: I think the relation needs to be very strong and is key, not only between the two of us, but extending a bit more to the executive committee. Right. And to be successful in my role, I need as a CFO in a PE environment, I need to be able to make sure that we anticipate as much as possible the needs of the next stage. Not this stage, but the needs of the next stage. If we are growing at 45, 50%, the next stage is tomorrow. So we need to be proactively anticipating what is the next stage, what do we need, how are we going to set those structures, how we are going to constantly review if we are going in the right direction, if we are making the best decisions. And picking on your question in our relation between uh, chief finance and chief people is not only the discussion that we have within the executive committee, but joining forces to make sure that we put that structure in place, that we anticipate the right needs and that we embed the right needs ahead of, uh, when we need that capability, that skill to make sure that once we need it, they are ready to go. Because there's no stop, there's no time for a lot of embedding, adaptation when you are growing as fast as we are.

Speaker B: Lily, we heard Amy talk a little bit about her transition from Unilever, uh, to Medicaid. Just thinking about your journey with Medicaid prior to inflections, investment and post. I'd love to hear your thoughts around what life is like as a CFO outside of private equity and then what life is like as a CFO within private equity.

Speaker A: It's a good question. And the main difference was before we were trying to understand what do we need, are we going in the right direction? It was creating the structure, trying to put the first pieces into the ground. Once you have inflection coming in, I think the main first point is to try to understand how do we move as fast as we can without breaking and at the same time setting the tone for what would be our equity story. At some point, you are not just building fast growth, you are building sustainable

Speaker B: growth at a fast pace, as evidenced by this conversation. You know, something interesting about Medicaid is the heavy skew towards female leaders that you have in the team. And we've talked a little bit about what attracted you both to medicate. Do you have any other thoughts around what has made Medicaite such an attractive place for very strong, very impressive female leaders?

Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I think, and this was obviously established before my time, like the fact that there was representation. Like when I came in, we had a female gm, we had a female cfo. So I think the representation always helped. I think the fact that the business was already very, very clear that it wanted to be B Corp actually made the changes that I came in and saw that we would need to make to sustain that much, much easier because it's a very, very clear framework. And actually having that representation around the table made it kind of double easy. We made some very significant changes in terms of our, uh, family friendly offering. Also changes in terms of just flexibility. So operating core hours hybrid in terms of office and not office. Those are, uh, they can never be overlooked in terms of just the ability to get diverse profiles into and operating really well in the organisation. I think it also really helped that even some of our most senior men say, like Dan is very, very involved with his kids. He's got three very young kids. Also is talking about need to go pick the kids up. It's things like that, those symbols and those conversations being in the workplace that also really help. And I mean, obviously we're a beauty company which skews kind of heavily female anyway, but I think those are some of those pieces that really get very accessible and there's visible symbols that people can point to and be like, oh, yeah, okay, I think I can fit and do really well here. And we're very conscious about talking about that kind of stuff.

Speaker B: We know it's a skincare brand and that might have a role in attracting female talent, but I think not all skincare brands have female leadership teams. Do you have any reflections around what might make Medicaid stand out and make you so atypical, even in a beauty

Speaker A: industry, the fact that we are very, uh, committed to our ambition and to our journey and we do all the things that I already mentioned in terms of being very intentional with our strategy, understanding what comes next and what we need next and all of that means that we can be very flexible because there's a lot of uh, trust but also accountability that we can pass towards the teams and that helps to include anyone, to be very diverse. Because once you have trust, accountability, we are very clear, transparent, what are the responsibilities, what do we expect from you? Then it becomes almost easier to have anyone working with us and we are able to flex, to adapt and to adjust.

Speaker B: So there's a, I'm hearing a really special blend of clarity of purpose, real ambition, all embedded in a deep trust that enables you to bring on some of that flexibility that attracts a diverse

Speaker A: workforce and the intention of making that a, uh, day to day conversation.

Speaker B: You've touched on something there, Lily, which we often, when we're talking about diversity, we often don't touch on that piece around ambition. Has ambition been something that has been a big driver for you? Is it something you've always been comfortable embracing? I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Speaker A: Yes, ambition has always been very important. Uh, for me, I started in a very male dominated environment, so it was difficult for me to be loud as a female at the beginning of my career. I probably felt that I needed to stick with the norm and imitate what was the regular environment in leadership that I was finding in a table. And then that change with time. And when you start to understand that credibility comes from consistent deliverables and not just because you are loud, because you are decisive when you talk. So I think that understanding as a female leader is very important, that you can be authentic and you need to be authentic to just naturally lead. And then there's the other part that is how do you combine everything? I also have a family, I have two boys that demand a mom and a husband that also likes to see the wife. But I think I always say that I'm a better mom if I'm accomplished at work. So that gives me the energy that I need for everything I do in life. It's more about energy management than time management. And I think that's key for someone to understand if you are coming through the ranks and you have that ambition on you.

Speaker B: Oh, I love that idea about energy management, Amy. Is that something you agree with?

Speaker C: It's key in any leadership position and I think specifically for women just because of the expectations. But I think ultimately being very conscious in how you are making sure that you are showing up in the right mind frame with the right energy for the tasks that are important to you is like everything in a leadership position. And it's one of the key things that uh, we invest a lot of time in from a wellness perspective is like knowing what's going to give you energy, knowing what's going to drain your energy, knowing what are those little things that you can intersperse throughout the day that will reboost your energy if you know you're in an energy draining task. There are key moments that massively over index the more senior you are. Like that one presentation or that one day might mean more value. And actually knowing what those high impact moments are and making sure you're ready for them is absolutely critical.

Speaker B: When we zoom out and look at the PE landscape more broadly, what you've just described, I might be biased, but what you've just described sounds like an enormous amount of fun, an ever changing role, having to learn new things every day, excitement, interest. And yet Medicaid is an exception in some ways. There are very, there are relatively few female leaders within private equity backed companies. Do you have thoughts on why that might be and what industry wide we might be able to do to address that?

Speaker C: I think initial thoughts is like conversations like this are really, really important. I think there is probably still just a misconception about what the expectation of the industry is, what it's going to take from you. And I think people also forget that each individual company is its own company. So yes, you might be owned by a portfolio company, but each individual company has its own policies, practices, cultures and actually making an assumption that everything that's private equity owned is going to take over your entire life and it's going to be impossible. One, I think takes a lot of agency out of it, but two just isn't true in terms of the actual portfolio companies that you might join. So I think there's the lens of focus on the portfolio company, the ambition, the vision, what you might be able to add. There's a huge opportunity, opportunity to shape and craft the culture and the direction of the businesses that you're coming into. And so actually that being a really, really exciting opportunity for women coming into

Speaker B: this space, for people who might be attracted to this world but might uh, view it with some trepidation. Would you be able to help demystify it a little bit and sell newcomers on the pros and potentially the cons. But the pros of, of this world.

Speaker A: It's a condensed learning curve. That's the main thing if you want to learn. What, uh, is working under pressure? What is understanding, uh, fast growth environments, uh, how to adapt, how to keep agility as you build structure. How do you learn to identify, um, gaps, risks, opportunities? Yes, he's very demanding. Yes, it puts a lot of pressure. Yes, there's a lot of eyes on you. What I'm trying to say, I think is that I couldn't see myself doing it in a different way.

Speaker B: Once you've turned to this side, it's hard to go back.

Speaker A: It's difficult to adjust. I would say I would not be able to adjust to a lower pace environment at this point in time.

Speaker B: Lilia, how do you use your position to open doors to other people around you who might be more junior, who might be coming from different worlds?

Speaker A: M. I think we talk about representation, um, but that's the starting point in my view. There's a job to be done after you open the door to someone. And uh, it doesn't mean because you have someone sitting at the table that that person is going to have a voice and that that person is going to be comfortable enough to raise that voice. Ah, so there's a work to be done that we play a part in giving that confidence in supporting someone. Mentoring, maybe is the word, um, is those processes that you put around in terms of bringing ah, more uh, maturity to the business. In that sense, in performance review moments, um, understand how to do that in a way that you build confidence. It's not just focusing on deliverables that is key and critical, but once you have someone in the same journey with you, when you have someone that believes in the same thing as you, then is more to get to that commitment level that you only have when you have trust in both sides of the table. So I think there's a lot of work, especially with women, to give them that confidence to help pass that imposter syndrome that we keep on going back, but it's a reality still. So I think it's through that support, through that mentoring, through that honest feedback and understand how the person is feeling, understand what else is missing. What else can I do for you? So there's that intent, that clarity of targets, that trust, loyalty, commitment to someone's development is key.

Speaker B: If you were to share with some of those people that you're bringing up and mentoring one of the best pieces of advice you've ever been given or the advice you wish you'd had, what

Speaker A: would that Be the first one was. And going back to what your mom always tells you, right? And my mom used to say to me, just find something that you really love and you will be good at it. I don't care what you do as long as you do something that you love. And I think the second one is that energy management, it's key when you understand that it's all about energy and you should be focusing on the things that turn the table, the things that are really making the difference.

Speaker B: Same question to you, Amy.

Speaker C: Yeah, so mine's maybe a slightly counterintuitive one for a chief blossom, but, um, it was from one of my VPs when I was at Unilever. And I'll just add the caveat that she was four days a week for most of her career and this was advice she gave me as a grad, was every few years, make sure you're looking at the market and make sure that you're making a choice to stay. Which I think is just such a powerful and empowering piece of advice. And I saw her do it every few years. And I think it's so easy to just get disillusioned, assume the grass is greener, ah, hear stories. But I think if you look out, evaluate, and I mean evaluate holistically, it's very easy for us to assume, you know, career progression is all about financials, but it's about culture, it's about who your, who your manager is, it's about who you're going to be learning from. It's about the work content and how that's going to grow you as an individual as well as obviously the, the package. It's just such an empowering piece of advice from a career perspective. Specifically, I think for women with everything else that comes with the whole of our, uh, lives to like make an active choice very consciously so. Yeah. Best piece of advice I ever received and I absolutely swear by that.

Speaker B: And maybe to close things. I'd love to hear what's next for Medicaid. Where do you see the next few years taking you?

Speaker A: The world is our oyster, isn't it? I mean, we could not have asked for a better home forever. Home for the brand, right? Uh, l' Oreal is number one beauty brand in the world. So, uh, leveraging on all that knowledge, decades of knowledge, uh, experience, scale. Now we are at a table with the grown ups, right? So we really have our position now in the world of skin care and we are well respected worldwide. So now we just need to go to the next phase that is being a true global brand, um, with a true impact, not only internally as a company, but also impacting women and everyone, because skin is skin as we learn everyone that uses our brand. So that, for me, is an amazing journey to come.

Speaker B: Can't wait to see you go there. What a lovely note to end on. Liliya. Amy, thank you. That was a fantastic conversation. What I've taken away is that the Medicaid story isn't just a growth story. It's a case study in what happens when you build a culture where talented people can do their best work. The fact that so many of those talented people happen to be women tells us something important about opportunity, about the conditions we create in our businesses, and about where the next generation of leaders might come from if we're smart enough to look for them. If this episode has made you think differently about who's in your leadership team and who's not, hopefully that's a good reflection moment to leave you with. Subscribe to Inflection Point wherever you get your podcasts. And while there, you can explore our previous conversation with leaders across the Inflexion portfolio, including with Elliot Isaacs, the founder of Medicaid, who came up with the idea for this pioneering skin care brand in the back of his family's pharmacy. Happy International Women's Day, and thank you for listening. Um,

Speaker C: Sam.