Redefining Energy: How WIP is Building the "Zyn of Caffeine" with Richard Mumby

Natasha Jakubowski: Coming up in this episode of Professional Jealousy, I think that I'm.

Richard Mumby: I'm probably either a dream or nightmare client. And he goes, yeah. And like, walked out. He, like, levitated as he walked out the door. And I was like, well, I guess. I guess I know what I'm doing next. You know, like, on the one hand, I can just sort of eviscerate myself. Everyone needs to feel ownership over their professional endeavor, I think. I think regardless of the age, you know, whether you really know yourself or if you're just bullshitting yourself.

Natasha Jakubowski: Hi, I'm Natasha Jakubowski, chief innovation officer at Anomaly, a global marketing agency in New York. And this is my podcast, Professional Jealousy, where I'm lucky enough to talk to founders, business leaders and creatives that I'm impressed by and, yes, just a little bit jealous of. Um, so today I'm talking with Richard Mumby. We'll be chatting about his career working at, uh, DTC pioneers like gilts and bonobos, what he learns at Joule, and how he actually founded a new type of energy pouch company. Hello, Richard.

Richard Mumby: Hello.

Natasha Jakubowski: Um, thank you so much for joining me. For anyone that hasn't heard of Wipe, what is the elevator pitch?

Richard Mumby: Well, the good news is it's super simple. We have clean, um, natural caffeine in a pouch that is equivalent to a coffee or an energy drink in a simple to use format. So we sell in all sorts of packages, but it's a small, discreet, plant based pouch. Pop in your mouth, enjoy the ride, and get the fuel to do the things in your day or maybe a couple late nights as well.

Natasha Jakubowski: I mean, I'm impressed by the product, uh, uh, the product usage and, uh, demo that's, uh, pretty slick. Um, it is a super interesting idea. I've been working on, uh, for the past couple of months on Aulani Nu. And uh, energy is obviously massive. Um, but this is a new form. It's definitely, you know, I don't know, tucking it or, you know, being inspired by the pouch or the kind of Zinn format. Can you talk about that kind of aha, ah moment? Like, how did you, how did this come about?

Richard Mumby: Yeah, I mean, the good news is, is that, um, from like a business standpoint is that people love caffeine and they love energy. You know, 85% of Americans consume caffeine every day. It's a part of daily routines and rituals. And yet people wish that there was something better about it. The core unmet needs are the people would like a more trustworthy, uh, cleaner, uh, better for you Some sort of improvement on the quality of the caffeine they consume. People want more convenience and then people want cheaper options. Um, so those are sort of huge category and some unmet needs. And at the same time there's been this wave of adoption that I'm sure folks know a lot about where in another category in nicotine consumers have. There's been a generational shift in how people are consuming it with Zyn and other pouches. And so the business actually originated before I joined, um, two and a half years before from a team of folks who, um, owned a company called tjp, which is the world's best manufacturer of pouches, but saw that there was transferability into a different category. They spent two years on the formulation and tons of money. Um, um, and I joined to really launch it. And what I really was inspired by was not just the scale of opportunity and not just even that we make a really good product, but that we could fundamentally, um, solve consumer needs better than what has been on the market before.

Natasha Jakubowski: Yeah. So a better solve that is drinking it isn't convenient all the time or whatever. What really?

Richard Mumby: Yeah.

Natasha Jakubowski: Thinking about this need.

Richard Mumby: So the convenience thing, it is a funny topic. Right. For something that people consume every day. I still have a coffee every morning. My husband has a bit of our routine. He wakes up earlier, he brews a cup of a, uh, pot of coffee. And I love that. But most of us consume caffeine through a liquid m. Yet the convenience issue has a range of frustrations for a sundry product. We hear that athletes don't like drinking liquids and certainly don't like carbonation before they work out or run that sloshing around or the bloating that happens from the carbonation in focus groups, endless focus groups with construction workers bring a, uh, coffee or a drink onto a job site. They are worried about, um, spills and dust and debris getting in their drink. All that is a common thing. And then there's a biological issue that with liquids and a stimulant you have to go to the bathroom. And we hear female runners, we hear esport athletes, we hear long haul truckers. That biological issue is a big frustration.

Natasha Jakubowski: Okay, I buy that. I mean it's interesting, um, going the kind of category creation route and the behavior change versus, I mean, did you, I mean, I guess you, you, you've happened on an amazing technology and product, but like pouches versus something like a gummy or kind of thing.

Richard Mumby: Sure. You know, there have been, I think there have been attempts at different, um, different ways to consume caffeine. Um, there is a helpful parallel in, you know, another large consumer category of consumer adoption. So in, in nicotine, people have adopted it because the product works. There's always efficacy and delight and people in that category, there's a high efficacy quotient and people really enjoy it.

Natasha Jakubowski: Mhm.

Richard Mumby: And I think that with alternatives in caffeine, there's been sort of a range of outcomes on whether it works well for the. From, um, from the caffeine. Sort of the outcome that you want from it.

Natasha Jakubowski: Yeah.

Richard Mumby: And there's a range of outcomes of whether people really enjoy doing it or not. I mean, I have one in right now, I have our, our Blue Raspberry in. And I gotta tell you, it's like, it's like a little, it's a hidden treat that I get to have while I'm talking to you. And um, so we're really able to do that. I think that this is a massive shift that's happening in the way people consume. But as you said, product is king. Um, it isn't just that we're a pouch. We happen to make a very good one. We happen to have a distinct formulation that has the ability to have enough caffeine that you can feel the experience of it. And also we mask the bitterness of caffeine, which is really hard to do in a way that it tastes great. And so if, you know, this is all I tell people, like, we're not a marketing company, we're not a sales company, we're not, you know, we're not a finance company. We are a product company. We make caffeine and energy pouches and we've gotta be exceptional at that. So everything else is in support of that.

Natasha Jakubowski: Yeah. Um, do you, I mean you, you talked about lots of focus groups. How did you, how did you, you know, gauge whether this was niche or a big enough opportunity to go all in? Because you are all in on WIP at the moment.

Richard Mumby: Yeah, we are. Um, I am. We are. Um, so before I joined there was um, a pilot launch under a different banner called LF Go. And that was a good way to gauge product market fit in. In the four months that existed before I joined, um, it was online only. It was really clear there was um, not just an openness but an acceptance from consumers. Not so, not just trial, but enough repeat that you could see that there

Natasha Jakubowski: was something there and that was through just DTC or how did and on Amazon and own it and so.

Richard Mumby: Okay, but um, but um, but then you know that that was Enough for me to come aboard. So I took the CEO role in October of 2024 and it was clear that we had a big opportunity. The next step was to build the brand and to build sort of the go to market for this. And um, we're fortunate to be able to, to you know, have resources to make big investments in understanding the consumer and brought this extraordinary um, head of Consumer Insights into to work with us. Her name's Krista Greenberg. She ran Insights in relevant to other businesses before she was at Red Bull for many years. Um, an extraordinarily talented um, Insights, um, leader. And so we did foundational work, you know, broad scale consumer insight studies and surveys and focus groups and in home use tests, comparative tests, focus groups and really understood sort of who would be open to it. What needs do we fill, um, how do we hang our hat from a product standpoint but then how do we build a brand to resonate with them

Natasha Jakubowski: as well and that. So I'm interested. So you did move from the LF GO to wip. Talk about that evolution. What was that aiming to uh, bring to life? Like what, what was behind that kind of branding change early on?

Richard Mumby: Yeah, I mean we really had like the LF Go was really a um, a pilot test to make sure that there was, you know, there was a product market.

Natasha Jakubowski: Yeah.

Richard Mumby: So we did that. We then took a breather and um, and then assembled a full you know, business plan um, for broad commercialization. So WIP has you know, a bounty of choice of consumers. This is, this product can fit into you know, a wide range of nearly every American's life. Um and it was breathtaking to see the response that um, who like the openness to the product category and how we could fit those needs not just in the US but internationally as well. So you know we, we really had to take a moment to build the brand, to build the sales, marketing strategy, our distribution plans, um, and then we're ready to go from there. Each inflection point is actually not just confirmed what we have before us, it's actually expanded the opportunity which is really exciting for us.

Natasha Jakubowski: Interesting. So you've talked a little bit about athletes. I can see that it feels like a very easy move from things like goo and non drinks, construction workers. Talk to me about your core kind of consumer segments.

Richard Mumby: So we can see we're in um, more than 5,000 doors. You know, seven months in, we're expanding rapidly. We're online, we're on our website, wip.com, we're on Amazon. We're on GoPuff. We're on Walmart.com. we have enough distribution just seven months in that we can see who's using the product. The good news is when people try it, they buy it and they buy it again. Um, and it's remarkably diverse, so we index really high around hospitals, around college campuses, around travel centers and truck stops. Um, our best affiliate on TikTok is a female athlete. And so we really aren't a niche business that needs to figure out where to expand into. We see, uh, like a bounty of choice. And so that's really, you know, at this stage of the game, we're really excited by the reception.

Natasha Jakubowski: Yeah. Energy and getting shit done.

Richard Mumby: Yeah, I mean, like, everyone. People keep talking about, uh, you know, accessing the 25th hour, and I, you know, maybe I should have heard the expression earlier, but it's like this continual refrain. Some people need, you know, to get up some extra pep in their step in the morning. People grind through their day, whether they're at it at their desk or on a job site. They squeeze in workouts. You know, hopefully in the world we live in, people are finding ways to have fun, even at night. And, you know, this product can fit into that as well.

Natasha Jakubowski: Okay. Um, yeah, it's interesting. I mean, like, you're so. You are for everyone. Um, your branding is from. From an outsider. It does look quite kind of masculine in a ways. And maybe that's just because I've been on Alani New, the exact, like, polar opposite almost, but. Yeah, but do you think it skews more male in terms of what you were aiming for, in terms of the, the kind of visual identity?

Richard Mumby: Well, I don't, I don't think that we intended that. I, uh, but. And everyone can interpret it, I will say that, um, on Tik Tok, our male, female, um, purchasing. Purchasing is literally 50. 50.

Natasha Jakubowski: Yeah.

Richard Mumby: And so, um, that's. That's interesting. Um, but, you know, I think that we wanted the brand to look, you know, regardless of gender. I think that our aspirational target of who we are are building the brand around, is somebody who leads an ambitious, full life. They work hard, they work out hard, they go out hard, um, and they bring others along with them. And so we really wanted it to feel that it was energy, that it had some, you know, layer of cool to it, that it was some badge, some merit of, like, those who are audacious enough to pull off doing a lot. Um, and those of us who are sort of finding ways to m. Make it through the Days as well. Get to appropriate it into that as well.

Natasha Jakubowski: Yeah, yeah, I like that. And I feel like I need to give a shout out to, uh, my good friends George, George Studio, maybe M. Dave and Girgis. Um, tell me, what was your brief to them to work on the kind of brand and bringing it to life?

Richard Mumby: They were like, I think that I'm probably either a dream or nightmare client and I'll let you interview them next to let them say what the verdict is. But, uh, we really wanted somebody that could move at a pace. We built, uh, what looks and feels like a global brand in record time from everything from naming through visual identity to brand standards. And they were the best partners, both Dave and Andrew. Um, and they'll forever be a part of the family and friends of mine now too. The brief was, um, yeah, I'll tell you was I had this essence of the brand that was like a witch's cauldron that requires like a witch's cauldron and the time machine of the, of the best eras of, um, of Red Bull, GoPro and Supreme. And if you could mash those together and have a baby of those brands on TikTok in a convenience store is like how I wanted the brand to come alive. And so I think they pulled it off.

Natasha Jakubowski: Amazing. Um, what was the moment that you thought, yeah, I'm going all in on this.

Richard Mumby: So the chairman of the company is this remarkable guy, David Cinnamon, who now is one of my favorite humans and closest friends. And so I met him over a zoom. You know, we met through one of these, one of these cameras. And he told me about what, you know, what the product was and their vision for it seemed pretty interesting. And he sent me a box of product, so a bunch of products. And I brought it out to the beach. Um, some friends of mine and I were out in Fire island. And so, you know, we're adult men in our 40s and so there's something called tea there. And so we went for an afternoon drink and everyone was like popping a pouch in their mouth on their way to tea. And without my encouragement, they just sort of naturally did. I was like, that's pretty good. And then there was like a 25 year old liquor delivery guy who brought some, brought a delivery over and it was my turn to give him a tip and somebody said, oh, uh, give him one of those pouches. And so I brought him a can and I was like, you know, there's no nicotine. He knew what to do and popped open the can and put in a Pouch. He let it find its spot and he pondered it for like two or three seconds and he goes, fuck yeah. And like walked out. He like levitated as he walked out the door. And I was like, well, I guess, I guess I know what I'm doing next.

Natasha Jakubowski: Amazing. Um, and this. Yeah, I mean, what, what do you think? I feel like the experience at Jewel, uh, must have been quite helpful for thinking about this kind of category. Like something new, different form factor, uh, figuring out how to connect with people in a way that's, you know, cool but also functional. Like, talk to me. What did you. What's been most helpful from your past experience moving into this space?

Richard Mumby: Yeah, I mean I think that, you know, if I take like even one step further back, I've, I've worked, I've been fortunate. I worked at Bain and. But I've spent most of my career with high growth consumer brands as early at the Gilt Group and I was at Bonobos, I was at Pax and Jewel. I think each of them um, had a different product or mode of distribution that, that really at its core they were product businesses or there was something that solved a need really well. But they were allowed to tap into culture in order to connect with their consumers and to create a category through that. And so I think all of them allowed me to do that. I think that's if I have like a sweet spot. It's sort of consumer businesses that have a great product but the ability and the right to participate in culture. Um, I think with Juul in particular there's lots of lessons. I think the deep familiarity with the channels that we sell this product into is really helpful. Um, and the scale of opportunity and with a product that has just a fundamentally different and better proposition.

Natasha Jakubowski: Yeah, I've seen your stickers in kind of bodega windows, which is uh, yeah, is one of those really effective but presumably things that a lot of new brands wouldn't have thought of, which is super smart. How have you kind of thought about scaling? So you're already in quite a lot of um, distribution points. What's been your kind of launch or launch strategy?

Richard Mumby: So um, I mean certainly a lesson was don't, you know, we've scaled quickly but um, at Juul we scaled even faster. And so the, the lesson here was really like, was to understand what drives velocity at retail, this is and what drives consumer behavior both online and offline. Um, we've got a great E commerce business that's run really judiciously, that we have great repeat rates. We've got great customer engagement, we've got awesome affiliates that whole world. Um, but I think that what, you know, I'm lucky to have had experience in and learnings from and to apply here is, is how to do that in the retail world. And so we could actually be in far more retail doors at this point. But within the first six months the thing that I most wanted to know was what drives velocity at retail? Um, my biggest nightmare is for our product to sit at a distributor or to sit on a shelf. And so we haven't dumped product in distributors or goosed our revenue to try to make this more appealing from a top line standpoint. I always say it when I go and meet with any of our retail partners. Our business is going to be built on their shoulders. We will only make money if they make money like and they will only make money if the consumers know who we are, know what we are and enjoy using it. So you, so that is like the core of what we need to do. Um, so thus far it's really been a really disciplined slow roll. I mean quick in absolute terms, but slow given know the opportunity that we have to get into doors and then to uh, built out a great data team here that really understands the stuff. You know, I think when we build brands there's a lot of, there's some sexier stuff to do than all of your in store marketing. But those are our, those are actually like our cheapest impressions. Those are our most material, those are some of our most effective. So we've just put a lot of time into that.

Natasha Jakubowski: Yeah, I think it's, I think it's the uh, one of the pieces that a lot of founders with, you know, especially like whether it's candy or beverages or they really miss. Uh, you know, I'd underestimate the impact uh, at retail. Like what would your advice be for any, you know, people starting out and thinking about that channel? Like what, what should they, what should they be doing? What do they, what are the basics that, that really set you up for success as a new brand?

Richard Mumby: I mean um, it's a good question. I mean uh, I'll uh, I'll give you my initial reaction. You tell me whether you, whether it's a good answer or not. But you know, I, I, I always keep coming back to the product. Like in, on our product you're working with the George team, we worked really hard on our packaging for it to be clear, you know, who we were and what we were and then you extend that into your interpacks or Your displays. Just, um, I think that, that it. I think that people may be inclined to create beautiful things, but not necessarily look through the eyes of the consumer, through all of them. Or they work on their advertising as their, our manifestation of their brand. But we really, you know, our biggest manifestation of the brand is on our, on our product, on our packaging. But how we appear in retail and knowing who that consumer is, um, and what they, what they're. And also like how curious actually are they. Like, it's very easy to be. I tell us, like, we can't be so self centered. Nobody is nearly as interested in us as we are in ourselves. Um, so that's where that's kind of what I would start with. I don't know if that's great advice, but then an understanding of where you appear in retail. You know, for us, we wanted to, I, uh, hate that word disrupt, but we wanted to like be distinct from other things that we would be around. Um, and think we did a great job with that.

Natasha Jakubowski: Yeah, any, Any, uh, mistakes or things that you wish, uh, you would have avoided, like in the first. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I guess it's been, it's pretty quick so far, but yeah. Any, any big learnings. Any things that you wish you could

Richard Mumby: have avoided just in, in any category?

Natasha Jakubowski: Oh, gosh, I mean I, yeah, any in. In launching this brand again, such a different kind of brand form factor.

Richard Mumby: Uh, um, yeah, I mean like, listen, I like, yeah, join me, join me at bedtime and as I'm trying to fall asleep. And I can give you a longer list, I'll give you the day's list. But, um, I mean, I think, um, I don't, you know, like on the one hand I can just sort of eviscerate myself on like what we could have done differently or better. But I saw. What's that? That the gold medal, medal. Olympic figure skater. What's her name that she just won? Alyssa Liu.

Natasha Jakubowski: Yeah. Amazing.

Richard Mumby: The best. And I saw her and she was asked a question like, what would you tell your younger self, you know, to. You know, to do? And she was like, you got it. Like, you know you're gonna be okay even with your mistakes. And so that's such a shitty answer to give you. But like, I mean, we made fumbles of maybe like too big of some brand activations that we weren't quite ready for. Um, but we're in a good spot and so I'll sort of be kind right now.

Natasha Jakubowski: I do think that, you know, I don't know, disagree if you Want. But there's definitely, I feel like to be an entrepreneur or to be more entrepreneurial, um, you kind of have to be pretty growth mindset. So maybe it's a hard question.

Richard Mumby: I mean like, of, of two minds. I mean like, I don't know, like we, we have a team at the Arnold right now and so we could have like done a photo shoot for some different assets to be there. Like, great. But it's, but we're gonna have a great time and introduce the brand to a lot of people. Yeah. And so that would be good. So I can, I mean the team can know that I can nitpick and fuss over something till, you know, the end of the days. But, but we're in a good spot. I'm just, I'm. I'm, I'm clearly unwilling to like go there with you right now.

Natasha Jakubowski: No, I like it, I like it. I think there is something in, you know, to be able to keep going and do new stuff and be entrepreneurial. I think you kind of need to be able to, you know, ignore the, ignore the failures and move on and learn from stuff and think that that's going to get you somewhere. So I think that's probably says something good about ah, you. I love that you. Your career. Talk to me about your career path. So I didn't realize you started at Bain. Um, I always wonder whether I should have done that sort of thing first. Um, but talk to me about your career path. Like, you've done a ton of interesting stuff. Are you one of these people that is very strategic in terms of moves or it's more serendipity? How would you talk about your career path?

Richard Mumby: We. Yeah, I mean, so I started my career in the late 90s, you know, in the least sexy, um, world in bulk commodity chemicals, um, during Web 1.0 when they were trying to like, you know, every category was being rethought. And so I started there. I worked in venture at American Express, but I think when, when I left Spain and which was one of the most extraordinary places to work. Um, you know, I'm blessed and burdened by the structured thinking that it's sort of like, you know, ingrains in your thinking. But I went to Gilt, which was a really good move and um, somebody, you know, I was trying to figure out what to do. And so Gilt was, you know, a startup, uh, a growth stage company. It was in retail. I had sort of a category manager role. And so I was trying to figure out where my career could go and somebody you know, they're like, do you want to run a retail company? And I was like, no. And I was sort of hedging on whether to. What. To what to make, what to commit to. That's the right word. Um, my husband would get a kick out of that. So, um. And so, um, somebody was like, you know, you either choose an industry or you choose a function. And it was like. And it was so clear. And whether that's right or not, it was really helpful for me in that stage of my career where I'd been fortunate with good success and felt like I had almost too many options and didn't know where to go. Right. So that clarity of like, do you want to be a retail person or do you want to be a functional. And I was like, well, I don't think that. I don't think that I'm a retail person. So I, I guess I've got the other option. And then you go through the functions and when you actually put pen to paper, there aren't that many functions. So like, so it became kind of, it became a, a more much clearer decision. And, and I think that I really, you know, I worked in marketing at American Express after, um, American Express closed their venture fund after 9 11, which is, you know, a silver lining for me to get that experience. And so for me that I really loved marketing. I liked understanding the consumer. I think that marketing is like, as a word is such like a, um, it's such like a, like an unhelpful description of the scope and role of what that can be. And I loved it. Um, I think that I've been in the diversity of industries. I like consumer. So that's like the common thread. I like growing things. I'm not like a tinker person. I'm a grower. And um, that was really. That's like as much forward planning as, you know, if I'm. Listen, we can all reverse engineer how planful we are, but how planful are we really?

Natasha Jakubowski: Yeah, I don't know. I know. No plans. No plans whatsoever. Um, whereas my. Actually my husband was. Yeah, he wanted to have started and sold his first company before 30.

Richard Mumby: Did he do it?

Natasha Jakubowski: Yeah, he did do it. He's in. Yeah. Just so such a different mindset. But I'm always glad to hear people less driven in the same kind of planning way. Um, what. Where do you see the future? Like, are you gonna. Are you trying to build WIP into, ah, a massive business? Are you trying to sell it? Are you trying to, you know, what, what's your thoughts on the future?

Richard Mumby: Yeah. Well, I'm glad that you're limiting the question to the future related to wip, not the world writ large.

Natasha Jakubowski: I mean, life, the meaning of life and everything else. Yeah.

Richard Mumby: So, I mean, we have an extraordinary product that people are going bananas over. And so really, the future, I can see, you know, a few years in and, um, with great conviction, we're going to be in many countries and we're going to have a lot of pouches in a lot of people's lives, and we're fundamentally going to shift consumption from legacy modes into what we're doing. I think we're gonna have a global brand and we're gonna define a fundamentally new category. You know, I like. I think that because of that, we're gonna have, um, you know, a business with meaningful revenue. I think we've got great, you know, we've got a great team running it to make sure that we have. That we have profitability. Um, we've got good partners. All of that is like the byproduct.

Natasha Jakubowski: Yeah.

Richard Mumby: Of like, a product that people really like. Um, and that's great. It's fun.

Natasha Jakubowski: All right, we're gonna. I can't. We've running out of time, and we're gonna move on to some. A kind of quick fire, last little segment. More frivolous, easier. Okay. Um. All right. Uh, apart from Whip, what do you do when you're low on energy and have to kind of, you know, perk up any. Any habits, practices, things that you do to kind of give yourself a boost?

Richard Mumby: Um, I've, you know, emphatically the best dog in the world. And so I take my dog Piper for a walk along the water. Um, and then my parents live, um, in California. And usually I sort of decompress in the evenings and take the dog for a walk and, uh, call mom and dad back in California.

Natasha Jakubowski: That's so nice. I'm hoping my son says that about me one day. Um, best career advice. Worst career advice you've ever had.

Richard Mumby: Oh, um, well, my father didn't. He wasn't like a meddler. I think that he really trusted us to make our own decisions and. But he did. He gave me advice that stuck with me for a long time, um, which was that. And there are exceptions to this, but he said, you know, a lot of careers are set by 40. The trajectory of that. And so he sort of, like, gave me. And I don't. I don't know. It's. It was the best advice for me. I don't know. If it's the best advice for somebody else, especially if they're over 40. But. But it sort of gave me clarity on. And discipline and focus and motivation to, like, ensure that I was on a trajectory that I was happy with and proud of by. By then. And so, um. Yeah, because I think that, you know, it's. Given how careers work now, this lightning round now, I'm talking too much, but it's good. But, um, you know, like, there's just so much movement and, like, you have to have so much agency over your own career. You know, My dad was a company man. You know, he was just. He was dedicated to the entity. And we now have to all sort of fend for ourselves in different ways and look after ourselves and all of that. And that's really hard. You know, I think that for. And I talk to a lot of junior people about that is I want this to be an exceptional place for them to, like, you've got, like. Everyone needs to feel ownership over their professional endeavor. And, um, I think that advice was, like. It just was really helpful to, like, it gave. It was a time integer that I could help like, that I could manage to. Because, like, I don't know, like, 65 or 70. It's like, it'll all work out by then, but it was. It was. It was soon enough to know that I needed to, like, not fuck it up.

Natasha Jakubowski: Yeah. Well, it's also. I think what's interesting about that, it could be read as, like, you need to figure yourself out by the time you're 40.

Richard Mumby: Yeah.

Natasha Jakubowski: You know, like. And then you're, you know, uh. The one depressing thing about it could be about, you know, if you haven't. If. If you know, what you're doing at 40 is forever. It's funny. I'm gonna be interviewing Gail Becca of Collie Power, who started Collie Power at 52. Um, so it's interesting, but. Okay.

Richard Mumby: I think there's a counter to it, which is that if it hasn't. If it. If you. If you don't feel like the career you've had.

Natasha Jakubowski: Yeah.

Richard Mumby: Is the career you want, then, like, maybe don't keep the slog going and think a new.

Natasha Jakubowski: Do something about it.

Richard Mumby: Do something about it. Like, it's. And you can feel like. I think that a lot of, like, you know, a lot of advice or counsel is usually things that you know to be true where it's the word. Like, it's like when you get a fortune cookie and you read something and you're like. You find it Insightful. You kind of knew it to be true to begin with. Right?

Natasha Jakubowski: Yeah.

Richard Mumby: And so, you know, I think. I think regardless of the age, you know, whether you really know yourself or if you're just bullshitting yourself.

Natasha Jakubowski: All right, worst career advice, and then we'll move on.

Richard Mumby: Oh, my gosh. Worst career advice. Um. Um, I don't know. Um, I mean, worse career. You gave me warning for this question, too.

Natasha Jakubowski: We can skip it. We can skip it. Um,

Richard Mumby: yeah. I mean, no, no, I don't. I've been lucky to work with, you know, everything is. Yeah, it'll work out anyway. All right.

Natasha Jakubowski: I like it a bit of a little. Um, do you have mentors?

Richard Mumby: Oh, mentor, you said mentals.

Natasha Jakubowski: Oh, mental mentors. The accent, the accident.

Richard Mumby: Oh, it's good. I, uh, do have. I do. I do have. Um.

Natasha Jakubowski: Yeah. What set of mentors do you have?

Richard Mumby: Um, sort of, like, different pockets of my life. Um, and, um. And they sort of have different facets. There's this guy, Mike Krupka. He founded Bain Capital Ventures. He's probably one of the smartest people I know, can diagnose any business. He knows how to push me forward, which is great. My old boss. The guilt group, um, Nate is. We've created and built together. And he cares about me personally. I mean, they all do. And then one of my dearest friends, Arthur Roger, he's a gallerist. He has a gallery in New Orleans, and he's my life mentor. He's just the most extraordinary friend who's had a few more turns around, laps around the sun, and he just gives me the best advice that you could hope for.

Natasha Jakubowski: Yeah. Amazing. Uh, what do you think your superpowers are that have helped you kind of be successful?

Richard Mumby: Well, um, I have the best executive manager, Coach Sage. Um, her name's Valerie Germain, which is like a name out of fiction. Like, it's like. It's the best name. Um, and she did this extraordinary thing where she interviewed 15 people who knew me well personally and professionally, and they came back with what my superpower was, which was very well. I know it's a long buildup, um, but I think that it's helpful that I heard it from others. But I build movements, I create a vision, and I pull other people along with me. And I think that sort of. I do that professionally. I do. You know, I've got this house that I renovated. Even, like, the tradespeople were along for the ride. You know, everyone sort of. You know, I like. I like. This is all. It's all a journey and like, to pull people along with me.

Natasha Jakubowski: Yeah, that's pretty amazing. Yeah. Bringing people with you. Inspiring. That's pretty good. Um, anything you wish you'd learn earlier in your career?

Richard Mumby: Um, I mean, yeah, I mean, my career and just like in life is just. Is how small the world is. As big as it is, it's small. Um, and, um, in that it's sort of like not knowing that provides these wonderful surprises on how people sort of flow back into your life. Um, but I wish I'd do that earlier.

Natasha Jakubowski: Okay. Um. Anything that you are, uh, trying to get better at, anything you're working on

Richard Mumby: to try and get better at, like, I mean, the, The. The way people consume content is just staggeringly different than what it was three or five years ago. And, you know, we've got just how. What. Communications, what, what even PR and media comms is. Is just. It is all evolving so fast. Um, and there's the, you know, and just knowing what is current, um, that's always like a pursuit. But the media world is just transforming. It's like holding onto water. It's just changing so fast.

Natasha Jakubowski: Yeah. Amazing. My husband's been spending way too long playing with Claude code at the moment.

Richard Mumby: It is.

Natasha Jakubowski: It's like. Yeah. Just every day there's something more. Um. I can't believe. Oh, no, maybe one more and then we'll go to the last question. Um, I'm just curious. You know, you've had. You've done so many things. You've had so much success. I'm wondering, not wip, not business, but like, what, What. How do you define success for yourself personally?

Richard Mumby: Um, well, my husband and I sort of. He. He and I debate this. Um, but, um, I think that it's a sense of, um. I think happiness is fleeting, but a sense of satisfaction and a sense of accomplishment is very good. Um, and I think that's. Does that answer your question? Am I heading in the right direction? Um, and I think that that's, you know, have you. Have you done. My. My dad had, um, a bad stroke almost a year ago, and it was just devastating, you know, extraordinary person, as you can tell in my life. And he's, you know, he's paralyzed on the left and doing his best to recover. And, um, you know, I was visiting recently, and he, um, you know, was, you know, he had a. Not the best day. And so he was working on his exercises in his bed, and he gave himself a pep talk, and he channeled his mother, my amazing grandmother, and said, you just keep going and you keep Doing your best. And I think that's just sort of like. That is what success is, is like doing your best. And hopefully you're doing your best. You can be happy more than just yourself.

Natasha Jakubowski: Amazing. All right, um, last question. Tell me someone or something that you're professionally jealous of.

Richard Mumby: The person. The person who I mentioned him before, um, the person who I'm probably professionally jealous of, uh, is my friend Arthur, who I mentioned before. He owns this incredible gallery in New Orleans. Um, he, um. He's family to me. He grew up on Desire Street. His father was a streetcar driver. His mother took a second mortgage out on us on her home to help him open his gallery. And he created and defined, you know, contemporary art, not just in New Orleans. But the reason why I'm, uh, envious is that he. He, not just his work, doesn't just, um, isn't just the fabric of his own life, but he extends it into everyone he meets. And when you go to his home, you are amongst this incredible. You learn so much. You get to be a part of it. And it's this world that, um, he's so generous with. And I think that, you know, I'm lucky that I get to create caffeine and give people energy, and I hope that I imbue them and energize them to do good and great things. And I am inspired by Arthur, by what he's been able to do for me and in so many ways, and he does for anyone that walks into his gallery.

Natasha Jakubowski: Amazing. And, um, what's the gallery name?

Richard Mumby: It's named Arthur Roger Gallery.

Natasha Jakubowski: Okay. Amazing. Um, Richard, thank you so much. Um, it's so interesting, and, uh, I'm so glad that you gave me an hour of your time. Thank you to anyone, uh, listening, watching. Please subscribe. Take a look at some of the other episodes we've done. You can find more on Spotify, Apple, YouTube, wherever you get your podcasts, um, or even professionally professional jealousy dot com. Get in touch if you have any questions, feedback, or importantly, anyone that you'd like to see featured. A, uh, quick thank you to, uh, Shimmy Boyle, the producer. Um, you can follow me at Natasha Jakubowski on LinkedIn, um, or on Instagram, etc. Etc. Thank you so much,

Richard Mumby: Sam.