Say Yes or Stay Average: The Career Advice By CHRO Jessica Kozak That Actually Works

Speaker A: I quickly realized I loved working with people, but I didn't enjoy taking weapons and drugs off people all the time. The interesting thing is, in Atlantic City, individuals would jump from one casino to the other. That's the challenge you dealt with. More so turnover.

Speaker B: There was an era where, like, sales and marketing. Sales blames marketing for the leads not being any good. Marketing blames sales for not closing deals.

Speaker A: Figure out what you don't want and what you don't like as early as you can. My biggest advice to anyone listening, Just say yes. I mean, even though it sounds scary as heck, just say yes. Uh, and there's so much that comes from that. Your networks are your most powerful thing in your life and your career. I learned very early in life about burning bridges and the disaster it could cause, quite frankly.

Speaker B: Hey, this is William Tincup and Ryan Leary. You are listening, hopefully watching the Practitioner Corner podcast. We've got Jessica on today. We're going to explore her career, her journey to where she is now and maybe even where she's going with her career. So let's start with introductions. Jessica, would you do us a favor and the audience favor and introduce yourself?

Speaker A: Absolutely. Thanks for having me. Excited to be here. Um, currently, I'm the chro at Apex Analytics. Um, we are headquartered out of Greensboro, North Carolina. Um, we are. We provide enterprise risk resolution, uh, for really the global 2000. Uh, some really, uh, great customers, some of the largest in the world. Um, two main things we do accounts payable recovery audit services, and supplier management solutions. Uh, I've been here about two and a half years now, and it has just been a joy. Uh, it's been a lot of fun, lot of changes, and, uh, excited to dive in deeper.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think the whole industry has gone through a change in the last couple of years. So, Jessica, this show is all about you. This is all about your background, your career, your career trajectory, and how you got to where you are. So let's. You want to just jump in, William, where, where did this start? What was the dream coming out of high school? What did you want to do?

Speaker A: Absolutely. So, you know, I would say, uh, going into, uh, early years, out of high school, into colle, uh, you know, started out, uh, figuring out what do I want to major in. Thought I wanted to be a teacher, so kind of went down that path and majored in psychology, probably in about a year in, changed to criminal justice. I, uh, wanted to be a cop. I wanted to get into the forensics. And, um, so I was majoring in criminal justice. And one Summer, uh, between kind of semesters, my stepfather came home, uh, while I was home for the summer, and said, you know, Six Flags Great Adventure is, um, interviewing for criminal justice internships. I said, oh, I'm gonna go do that. And so I spent the summer, um, in uniform, being a security guard at Six Flags. And it was a lot of fun. But I quickly realized I love working with people, but I didn't enjoy taking weapons and drugs off people all the time.

Speaker C: How many weapons and drugs were you pulling off of kids?

Speaker B: Dude, there's just Six Flags here in Arlington. You'd be amazed.

Speaker C: Exit 7, right? Is it exit 7?

Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, turnpike. Yeah, 7A. Um, and, you know, it's right there in Philly and Jersey, New York. Uh, so, um, yeah, so it was really busy. It was. It was a lot of fun. Great experience, great people experience. Um, but I realized, okay, I want to work with people, but not in this way. Um, and so I actually went into. With Six Flags, a recruiting role, um, a seasonal recruiting role, and I loved it. Um, you know, hiring seasonally, uh, you know, during the summers. And, um, it was just a great time. Also bringing in, um, volunteers. We brought in a lot of volunteers, um, know, just to supplement our workforce for the summers. Ah, so we bring in cross country teams and, you know, baseball team, athletic, you know, organizations and other wives for the summers. So it was just super fun. Great. Ah, time and again, it put me in that place of working with people in a different capacity, and so really, really enjoyed that. So that's kind of how I got started. And that was while I was working on my bachelor's degree. Got the entry into hr.

Speaker B: I love it. And the y' all's yalls is, uh, you're. You're probably your Six Flags different than the one here at Arlington, uh, because they do a winter because of the weather. Right. So they do a winter Six Flags around Christmas. They've got it open for about a month and a half. Uh, and in the summer, but obviously, with the weather y' all have up there, it's probably not tenable for that to happen.

Speaker A: Um, I think they've done a little bit of that here and there over the years.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. If the weather's working. If the weather's going to work for you, it's great because kids would love to be able to. Especially season pass holders would love to go out there and use it. Um, so how long were you at Six Flags? Uh, or wait, first of all, you're doing this while you're doing your degree?

Speaker A: I am, yeah. So I was doing this during the summers during my degree and then, um, actually shifted. I still wanted to continue working while I was going to school. And at the time the college I was going to, I could take some night courses and still kind of go full time. And so I actually took a role, um, at Trump Casinos in recruiting, in hr. Um, so I was commuting from about Toms river down to Atlantic City.

Speaker B: I was about to say, yeah, yeah,

Speaker A: this is when Trump had four casinos. So he had the Trump Plaza, which is where our office was.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: World's uh, Fair Marina and Taj Mahal.

Speaker B: Oh, I remember the Taj Mahal.

Speaker A: We did staffing across all four. And so I had, you know, the horizontal of certain roles across all four and it was high volume recruiting. So we had a staffing kind of front desk. So we had a staffing assistant who would intake at the time, hardcore, you know, hard applications, ah, paper applications. And they would do all the intake and we would, you know, you know, in the office, um, do a lot of the interviewing and passing through to the hiring managers and that. So I saw a lot in that time. It was about, about a year and a half or so. Um, being there, uh, really high again, high volume, good, uh, experience. Uh, so that was a lot of fun.

Speaker C: All right, question on, on the recruiting. So you had Six Flags. Well, you had Six Flags. High volume, seasonal.

Speaker A: Yep.

Speaker C: But you're dealing with mostly, I'm guessing, high school ish, college freshmen, people like that. And then at the casinos we all know what you're getting there. Right. Which was better. I was going to go with criminal

Speaker B: background check is what you're getting there.

Speaker C: I was going to keep it, I'm going to keep it a positive instead of saying which is worse, which was more challenging.

Speaker A: I guess the casinos, it, it was more variety of roles, um, because you're hiring dealers, you're hiring, um, housekeeping, you're hiring, um, kitchen waiters, um, the whole gamut. And then you're hiring professionals. So we would hire professionals in security and administrative roles. And so it was nice for me because it was so diverse and every day was a new day. And um, you saw a lot, you got a lot of great experience, dealt with unions there too. And so they were the labor unions and positions there. So, um, it was challenging, um, but not, you know, not all that difficult. It was just, you know, you learned really how to uh, navigate some of those challenges and a variety of different roles and diversity of people.

Speaker B: Well, it's going from one fire to Another. And so you learn how to put on the fireman hat. Figure it out.

Speaker A: Because all, like, entertainment industry.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. We've had some friends that ran, uh, recruiting at mgm. And, uh, it's insane. Uh, like. Like really insane. Not. I mean, not just because of the breadth of physicians, but even the filling. Because, like, dealers will take that as an example. They'll be with you for three weeks and then gone. And so it's like, uh, you know, and you and the work to get that person to a place and then place them. It was massive to just get them to that place. I think Six Flags. At least back when. When I went to Six Flags, it was relatively easy. It was a paper app.

Speaker A: That's right.

Speaker B: And then you talk to somebody and they're like, okay, show up on Tuesday.

Speaker C: And you showed up. And, uh, that was it. I've always. I've always been curious on the. This is off topic a little bit. Hiring dealers.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker C: What is that process? Like? Is there. Is it, like a really tough background check? How do you. How do you. How are you running these people through?

Speaker A: Yeah, they. They're getting fingerprinted 100%.

Speaker B: The commission.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, you're really going through the commission. And, um. Yeah, you're going for fingerprints. I had to, too. I had to go through a similar, you know, background. And, um. But it is. It is a lot more thorough. Um, the interesting thing is, in Atlantic City, at least at this point, um, back in late 90s, early 2000s, um, you know, individuals would jump from one casino to the other. That's the challenge. You dealt with more. So, uh, for a dollar more turnover. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Um, the turnover is pretty incredible. But they're going from one to the other. Yeah. For the competitive pay, for sure.

Speaker B: In Vegas, Ryan, uh, if the dealer didn't know the game that well, like, you know, whatever it is, Texas hold' em, 21, blackjack, whatever, if they didn't know the game, they actually had training programs for the dealers to train them on the game. If they could pass all that other stuff, the fingerprinting and, uh, all the background criminal. All that stuff. If they could pass that. I remember Brad Warga telling me, I'll train them on the game. We got experts that can train them how to do the game and how to work with the pit boss and all that other stuff. We can train them on all that stuff. I can't train them out of, uh, 3D UIs or some type of criminal, uh, charge that's on their record.

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Speaker A: Yeah, there's a lot of trainings and boot camps and all that and ways to attract the talent, um, to kind of pour into them and, and get them up to speed on the development side. But you're right, I mean you just have to pass some of the basics.

Speaker B: But you had the same situation which we've seen here more. And since COVID the uh, kind of high volume hourly market is they'll go for $0.50 more from Taco Bell to Verizon. And so that's crazy just to think like, okay, somebody's offering you 50 cents more and you just drop that, start the next job $0.50 more at, uh, you know, pick a place they'll do that. Like they're just trying to get a little bit more money each time they move. There's no loyalty whatsoever. And I think that's probably two ways. We don't have a whole lot of loyalty to them, they don't have a whole lot of loyalty to us. So it's, it's a mess for the folks that have to deal with that high churn, high volume stuff. So now that got you through your degree.

Speaker A: That got me, um, almost there. So, um, close to me finishing up my bachelor's degree at this point, um, you know, the commute was a little over an hour one way. Ah, so again, great m experience in that. Um, but I found a role with Commerce bank, um, right down the road from me. I believe TD purchased them along the line. But Commerzbank was uh, more regional and in Toms river, uh, New Jersey was kind of the Ocean county headquarters, if you will, regional office. And again stayed in recruiting. They're hiring tellers, customer service representatives, um, you know, mortgage lenders, um, uh, the administrative kind of staff and that for Ocean County. And so I would travel to each of the branches, you know, help with interviews, all the hiring. Again, pretty high turnover in the teller space and customer service rep, um, but very professional. And I mean this is the point where here I am finishing up my bachelor's degree fairly young, wearing suits every day.

Speaker B: Oh yeah.

Speaker A: And you know, and it Was welcome to Ann Taylor. Right, for sure. And so I really, um. It was a major shift from, you know, the entertainment industry into this, um, more. A little bit more corporate. Um, but it was good for me. And, uh, you know, very young, um, some really great mentors, um, and seasoned, uh, colleagues in HR around me who just really helped me grow, gave me some really tough feedback on things very early in my career. Um, but just awesome. Uh, the best thing was the president and CEO. His last name was Hill, and my maiden name is Hill. When I called out to everybody was

Speaker C: like, jessica Hill's here.

Speaker B: No wonder she got, uh, the job.

Speaker A: Right? And so when I called out to Cherry Hill for, you know, for anything. Oh, yes, I'll get absolutely right to that.

Speaker B: We will research that right away, Ms. Hill.

Speaker C: Yeah, funny story. I. I once interviewed. I interviewed it at Commerce, uh, in Cherry Hill.

Speaker A: Very cool.

Speaker C: Yeah. And I didn't get the job.

Speaker B: She rejected you?

Speaker C: Yeah, it was her, not my region.

Speaker A: I promise.

Speaker C: It was a. Ah. I still talked to the guy today. I'm connected with him on LinkedIn somehow. He found me. But, um, yeah, it was for a sales role, selling some stuff. And it wasn't a fit for me. I was so far out of that. But I remember traveling out there. I was young. I was in. I was probably a junior in college. My parents are. Why are you drawing a Cherry Hill? You go on the Cherry Hill Ford for. I'm like, because that's what they told me to interview. I don't know. And that's just what I did. But I never got the job.

Speaker B: Uh, but both. What's interesting, and Jessica's both in the casino business and in the banking, uh, or financial services business, there's an element of compliance, you know, like, that's different from some of the other industries. Right. That we deal with. Like in. In casino, you had to do everything to commission, and the commission could change their mind and all that stuff. And with financial services, that's all, you know, that's. That's all through the federal government and understanding, like, okay, what rules, what do we have to abide by? This, that and the other. I could see the casino being more fun because, like, crazy stuff could just break out at any moment, you know, uh, not necessarily in corporate, but on. At one of the casinos. Crazy stuff doesn't happen in banks.

Speaker A: Not so much. It's pretty steady. Yeah.

Speaker B: Pretty steady, Eddie. Yeah. That's hilarious. So you've got your degree. You're at. You're at. You're at the bank at One point you get pulled in. Nathar, I'm assuming, from recruiting.

Speaker A: So I'm at Commerce, finished my bachelor's and I immediately go in for my master's. Um, so I started right away on my master's degree. Um, actually went to Central Michigan University. Uh, at the time they had a satellite campus at Fort Dix and McGuire. Um, I think most of the classes, uh, were on Fort Dix. So I'd go there on Friday nights and Saturdays, um, every weekend for a couple years to, you know, to get that master's.

Speaker B: And.

Speaker A: And so Commerce actually helped fund most

Speaker B: of my master's degree, which is good tuition reimbursement.

Speaker A: Incredible.

Speaker B: Love that.

Speaker A: And of course, at this point I'm doing my master's. Uh, it was an msa, so Master's of Science and Administration with an HR concentration. And so I could just take all of that hr, you know, knowledge and development, and put it right to work with organizational development or whatever the case may be behavioral. And I was pretty driven and hungry and I was read. I was itching to make my next move. And I, uh, interviewed and got, uh, a. Got hired at Booz Allen Hamilton.

Speaker B: Oh, uh, cool. Um, so especially at that time. Yeah, they were, they were. That was the technical consulting firm.

Speaker A: That's right.

Speaker B: Period. Everyone else was far behind them.

Speaker A: It was awesome.

Speaker B: That's great.

Speaker A: Uh, so started with them in New Jersey, uh, again on the recruiting side. Uh, this is when they were at Fort Monmouth. Um, and so started kind of doing local recruiting in Eatontown. And while finishing, you know, my master's and my thesis at night on weekends, and, um, that role just quickly expanded and expanded and expanded. So I got more.

Speaker B: When you're talented, that's what they do. It's like load you up. I was like, hey, what do you know about onboarding?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Okay, now you're in charge of onboarding.

Speaker A: I mean, my biggest advice to anyone listening is just say yes. I mean, even though it sounds scary as heck, just say yes. And, um, there's so much that comes from that, but, you know, expanded to more regional and then, um, you know, on the recruiting side. And at one point they wanted to try something out. Um, that's more of a hybrid role where they could take someone like myself in a, ah, geographic location and have them play more of a recruiter and HR generalist role together. And they called it a hybrid. And so I was the first kind of, um, you know, uh, what. I guess just try this out. Um, you know, let's. Let's pilot this and it was going really well. And so they actually put two other people in this role, um, in, I think, both Virginia and Texas. And at some point, again, over a year or so of doing this, I was approached by one of my leaders on the recruiting side. And she said, jess, it's kind of time to pick a major, um, if you want to keep growing the global

Speaker B: head of talent acquisition.

Speaker A: Well, uh, what do you want to do? And I said, actually, I think I'll go the HR route. And she was the head of recruiting.

Speaker C: And she's like, okay, I just lost you.

Speaker B: She was just. She was thinking of a replacement. She was. She was doing succession planning.

Speaker A: I was so junior. I was so young at this time. But, um. But it was a. It was great. And it gave me kind of that path then to hr. And I spent. At that point, we, um, we were bringing more commercial. We had our commercial business setting in New York City, Manhattan, and in, you know, Chicago and other places. Spent some time on both the government side and the commercial side. So I was commuting into New York City a couple times a week, uh, getting that exposure on the commercial side of the business. And this is before they spun off to booze and toe.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: And again, just awesome experience. Um, and BRAC was nearing, uh, so this is the Base Realignment and Closure act was, uh, coming around. And this is like 2008 or so.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Close to 2009, right around the financial crisis.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: And so Fort Monmouth was going to be closing. And that was, you know, where I was based at the time with Booz Allen, although I traveled a ton. And so, you know, they had approached me and said, would you be willing to relocate to a growth location? And so Norfolk is one of the locations. Um, Huntsville, Alabama was another, and San Antonio, Texas was the third.

Speaker B: Yeah. And so Huntsville's all government, if I. That's all government, defense contractors, stuff like that. Yeah.

Speaker A: So my husband and I, um, And at the time we had three young children. Uh, we went to Huntsville actually on our way, kind of. We were coming to North Carolina to visit family here, and we went over to Huntsville to check it out. And so we did a house hunting

Speaker B: trip and thought, your money's going to go a little further, right?

Speaker A: Yeah. In Jersey. So, um, we loved it. And we said, okay, we're going to move to Huntsville. And at the time, the now CEO of Booz Allen and the former chr, who just retired, approached me and said, would you consider San Antonio?

Speaker B: Why, you know, about as opposite as you can get. So, yeah, Fantastic.

Speaker A: I said, and this is no joke. I said, where is San Antonio?

Speaker B: Yeah, of course, you go to Austin, you turn right.

Speaker A: Where is that? And. And then they, you know, I said, texas. I don't know. I'm a Jersey girl, you know, I

Speaker C: always forget it's in Texas. So today someone says San Antonio, and I'm thinking West Coast. I don't know why.

Speaker B: Well, it's because of all the Pueblos, all the sand, the Santa Cruz, all of that stuff.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, Jesse, I want to go. I want to go back just real quick a moment that the crossroads where you had to make the decision, HR recruiting, which path? Some of the people probably, uh, more than some. A lot of the people who listen to this show are probably at that stage or will be at that stage shortly in their career. How did you make that decision? What was that process?

Speaker B: Well, at this point, how. Hold on, Jessica. You had how many years of recruiting under your belt from Six Flags to.

Speaker A: Probably at that point, it was a good eight or so years. You know, um, and a little bit of that hybrid time crossover. And for me, it was. I knew I just wanted to diversify and grow beyond recruiting. Only I knew my goal at that point was I did want to be a Chro someday. I did want to be, you know, a leader. Um, and, you know, in. In early roles, even at Six Flags and, you know, security role, they put me in a supervisor role pretty quickly. Um, and I was, I just remember supervising people who were 20, 30, 40 years older than me. And like, here I am, this 18 year old, but I just. I really resonated with, you know, leadership at a, uh, young age. And probably some of it is related to my upbringing not to get into too, you know, psychological things. But I just knew at that time, though, I wanted more of that HR experience and to figure out the other things I love to do. And also what I didn't want to do, the biggest thing for me was also figure out what you don't want and what you don't like as early as you can.

Speaker B: Don't want to do Payroll girl. Next. Moving on to. It needs to be done right. I don't want to do it right. FYI. Did you, uh, did you live through that era of kind of the blame game of recruiters would blame HR and HR would blame recruiters?

Speaker C: It's still the era of blame.

Speaker B: No, not. Well, yes and no. Of course.

Speaker C: I don't know from the look on

Speaker B: her face, there was an era where it was like, Like Ryan, for us it sells them all. Marketing. Sales blames marketing for the leads not being good, marking by sales for not closing deals. Like, it's constant, this battle of tennis going back and forth and thereabout. In that era, it was bloody because they didn't get along. They were under, uh, recruiting was under HR's budget and typically their authority. And man, they just slammed each other and it was a bit grotesque. And Jessica did. So in any of the stops along the way, did you have to deal with that?

Speaker A: Not. Not really. I do hear about it, um, and I hear, you know, even from colleagues today who are at different places. Sometimes the HR business partners and organizations and the recruiters, um, have conflicts. And some of it is who owns that relationship with the business. And, you know, sometimes the HRBPs want to be out in front of and own the relationship and have the recruiters kind of, you know, have some of that just, you know, recruit and hire. But there's. There's a, There's a partnership to be had. And I think some of it just really, you know, it's. It's about the culture of the organization. It's about the culture and leadership of those organizations and how they work together and how they set, um, you know, here's how we're going to work together. And so I've heard about it. I, you know, I still have, in fact, I mean, Booz Allen, I'm very, very close with, um, the recruiting leadership. And we, you know, some have moved on, but we do a girls trip, you know, every year with the recruiters. And I wasn't in recruiting for so many years after. I still have relationships and with the hr, um, leaders that I was, you know, very much a part of. I was with them over 17 years at Booz Allen.

Speaker B: That would be a. That would be a trip, Ryan. It would be great to be a fly on the wall. Yeah, that's where you get the real HR stories. Unfiltered, unvarnished. Maybe after a couple bottles of wine, you couldn't imagine.

Speaker C: Hr, HR people. I'll say HR people. They're kind of like teachers for me. Growing up, I've always thought teachers just taught. And that was it. They went home. That was it. They didn't have a life. My wife's a teacher and I. That is not true. These two. And we see my daughter's teachers out, and that's even more awkward. HR is the same way. It's like HR in the office. Hr.

Speaker B: So no department.

Speaker C: HR out of the office.

Speaker A: That's not true.

Speaker C: It used to be. It used to vary.

Speaker B: Sorry, my bad. And that was the perception, especially the prevailing perception in the 80s and 90s of personnel. It's if you got called HR, that was never a good uh, get your box. That was never a good like hey William, come to hr. I was like, okay, I may as well just go to my car.

Speaker A: Very sad. We always say in my team, uh, here today, we're always like, how can we get to yes? That's our mantra. How can we get to yes? How might, you know. And let's, let's, let's figure out a way.

Speaker B: Yeah, well, uh, again now you have the flexibility and I think some of it is just growth in all of us. You know, growth where we have, we understand that this is important and it's, understand it's even more important for it to be in conjunction and kind of, you know, there's a concert being played. Whereas before again 80s and 90s in particular, recruiters would just pass over. You know, they hired, they didn't even get into onboarding, much less anything after onboarding. They would just pass. The candidate hiring manager said yes, offer letters been accepted, moving on to the next rec. And now you see recruiters that are like, no, I want to go deeper.

Speaker A: They own it.

Speaker B: They want to go deeper into the relationship and help that candidate now employee be more successful. And HR is coming more into recruiting, going further and further into pre boarding.

Speaker A: That's right.

Speaker B: And so after that offer letter is set up, yeah, we're not gonna do binders and training for a day or any of that type of stuff. We're gonna get you pre boarded so that you can have a fun and an exciting adventure. When you first start, get all that paperwork stuff out, we gotta do it. It's important but let's get that out of the way and then get into the fun of the job.

Speaker A: I agree.

Speaker B: So the so you stayed there for and then what was the next move?

Speaker A: So was with you know, Booz Allen in San Antonio now there a few years and what I was looking for, craving was a headquarters experience. Um, so I'm very far away from headquarters. I'm you know, which is in Virginia and I'm San Antonio. And um, I jumped over for only a little over a year to rack space.

Speaker B: Oh down in San Antonio Tech company,

Speaker A: uh, in, in a big mall, you know, with the slide everybody hears about.

Speaker C: Super hot for a minute. Yeah.

Speaker A: So it was great.

Speaker B: Uh, did you cross um, paths with a employer branding person named Michael Long?

Speaker A: Name's familiar.

Speaker B: Name's for he created a website called Racker Space. Yep.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: And, and basically he let the engineers just talk about their jobs. And so it was a way to kind of filter in from an important branding perspective. Filter in and filter out.

Speaker C: It's probably 15, 20 years ago.

Speaker B: Yeah, I remember we went down there actually for a talent. Ryan.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: And we went down there and then again every, every office was a little bit different. Again it was a renovated mall. Like it was cool.

Speaker A: Very neat. Yeah, different, very different.

Speaker B: Um, Robert Scoble was there.

Speaker A: Okay, okay, I know that name too. But um, but I mean it gave me that headquarters experience for sure. Um, gave me the tech experience and exposure. Uh, you know, hadn't really, um, was just keeping in touch with Booz Allen, of course, just the relationships that go back for so long. And um, after a little over a year, uh, you went back to Booz Allen and at this point to lead kind of a, um, larger talent role, um, for the Army Marine Corps business. Actually it was Marine. No, I'm sorry, it was Navy Marine Corps business, uh, which was, you know, bicoastal and, and everywhere. And to work with an amazing partner and leader. Um, and the team that I led was really across. It was the whole life cycle. It was from recruiting, resource management, so internal placement and hr. So it was the dream job. I mean many kind of chro with shared service and of, uh, course in the company, uh, I was having the time of my life. It was probably my favorite role ever at that point. And I got a phone call. And this is what's awesome about Booz Allen is about every 18 months you're called to do something different. At Olli, we've got wellness down to a science. From PMS to pregnancy to menopause, our women's wellness line offers science backed support for every state. No judgment, no shame, none of the stigma. Just supplements designed to meet you wherever you're at. Ollie, choose science over shame. Find support at a retailer near you or on ollie.com, that's o l l y dot com,

Speaker B: 100%.

Speaker A: You're, you're either reorganizing the farm and you're landing somewhere different. That was my entire career, 17 years. Um, I got a call again in the middle of my dream job to help and lead a portion a part of the workday implementation for the entire firm, globally.

Speaker B: Oh, bless you.

Speaker A: And uh, first I was like, but I love this job. Um, so how early was that?

Speaker B: Was that in workday's history?

Speaker A: Say, what did you say?

Speaker B: How early was that in Workday's? History 2007.

Speaker A: Yeah. Um, this is probably 2016.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Okay. Uh, they had developed out a lot of the HR products and some of the finance products, but not, not as full as a lot of point solutions. Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, so that took me on planes every week back to DC. Um, it was a huge project. It was one year. Uh, the thought initially was I stay 50% in the role I loved and 50% on the this. Which, you know, wasn't probably realistic, but it gave, it actually gave individuals who were aspiring leaders on the team that I was leading the opportunity to develop and grow and, and one of them just got a chr. Role. Um, and, you know, externally and uh, so it, it just made space for others to, to stretch and grow. And um, so did that for a bit. And um, then again after that was done, went into another role to help, um, stand up a little bit of an enhanced shared services model. And around that time, uh, got a call from heb, who you know probably very well, uh, at the time HEB was expanding their, uh, digital and e commerce business. And um, they called because they were standing up really in a people team specifically facing digital and the tech. And the person that called said, you know, we heard about you from your Rackspace experience. Um, and so even though I was only there a year, I think everything happens for a reason. You know, every, everything in your path is there at the right time. And uh, so I went, uh, over to HEB to lead this people teach

Speaker B: back in San Antonio.

Speaker A: Yeah, that was in San Antonio. Again, Headquarters Experience. It did give me that great Headquarters experience. Um, very well known brand, huge organization. I mean the largest private.

Speaker B: Right. Do you know? Right. Do you know?

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We don't have H E B. But yeah, I know.

Speaker B: Central Market, which is one of their, their stores. Direct competitor to Whole Foods at a. At a period.

Speaker C: Got it.

Speaker B: They do it differently.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: I actually prefer Central Market to Whole Foods. But, um, their procession store. Procession is like ikea.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So when you go in one place in produce, you go in one place and then you just walk around like it's a guided tour. You don't just pick the aisles that you want to go down. Like you're going through the store, uh, like ikea, same bit, same type of format. But man, it's all high end stuff. It's great.

Speaker A: It's an experience.

Speaker C: I got a question. Ah, for you around the Headquarters Experience. You said this a couple of times. Headquarters Experience. That's different from what a lot of people experience today. Talk about that a bit. If you.

Speaker B: Where.

Speaker C: What role has that played for you moving into eventually the chro role, if you didn't have that headquarters experience, is it different? Do you end up different? Or do you get this role at a later time frame?

Speaker A: Maybe. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I think there are probably individuals who are maybe in chr roles who never had that. But I think what it afforded to me was the ability to get, um, senior exposure, CEO, um, you know, executive team exposure to develop the relationship. Um, I feel like I'm a better relationship builder in person, um, you know, than maybe remote. And I know these days a lot of individuals are working remote with one another and sometimes, you know, don't meet very, very far in. But I just, I like to be in person with people. I'm in our office five days a week, um, with Apex, and I really enjoy that. So I just think that exposure with the senior leadership, understanding the culture, the nuances, the strategy, um, how'd you make it through Covid? It m was hard.

Speaker B: Um, you're a people person and you're an in person.

Speaker A: And I'll tell you, I mean, sitting in San Antonio, Texas, during COVID at H e b, of course, when Covid hit, all of our jobs changed. And. But it was a beautiful thing in some respect because, uh, at the time, we had purchased favor. We had acquired favor. And at the time, during COVID we had seniors, uh, senior citizens across the state of Texas who were struggling to get groceries. And what I ended up doing is I ran, um, a call center essentially for senior citizens to get them groceries. And I ran all of the staffing, all of the. I mean, and we had this team. We just pulled teams from stores, from AR, from everywhere, and we had a whole, you know, 24 by 7 operation. That was my role. During. During the first part of COVID everybody just dropped everything and said, all hands back.

Speaker B: And that is, we're take this succession plan. And, um, let's just put that over here.

Speaker A: Yep. So it was amazing. It was, I mean, such a good feeling and what a great organization at the same time. During COVID and leading up to it, my husband lost both of his parents, I lost my mom, and family became, like, really important, and all of our family is on the east coast. When I moved for Booz Allen years before, 11 years before, uh, it was like an adventure. But now, you know, my kids were getting a little bit, bit older. They were in high school. Probably not the best time to move your kids. But, um, it was Coded. Nobody could go and see each other. Anyway, so we picked up and moved to North Carolina. Um, uh, you know, Reynolds, uh, so tobacco industry, um, relocated us. So I, I took a role with Reynolds, uh, and um, spent about two and a half years with them here in North Carolina. I would say tobacco probably wasn't for me. I'm kind of a health nut. Um, and so a lot of my friends are like what? But great organization, uh, you know, great experience. Um, again probably played about three different roles or so in that two and a half year time frame which kind of pulled into a couple of things based on my past experience. And so that was, that was going great and I was having an enjoyable time. Uh, then got a call from a headhunter about this role at Apex analytics. And some of my first questions were, you know, who is this tech firm in Greensboro, North Carolina? Um, um, and it's a chr role, um, you know, in person, which I loved. Headquartered in Greensboro. And what really captured my interest was the logos that, you know, the companies that APAC has as customers, amazing logos, you know, you would know them all. And um, that captured my interest and as I started talking to my predecessor, uh, who was retiring after about 15 years and the CEO and others on leadership team, uh, was just an amazing culture. Uh, just believe in kind of what we do and the mission and the value we bring to our customers. And it was an opportunity to come in and scale and I love scaling. Um, what my predecessor uh, did fantastically is kind of built kind of the startup and the build. I love the scale. Scale and taking something that's great and making it even greater and, and you know, getting there before kind of the growth. Uh, I don't love the maintenance phase and you know, but the scale is so fun and exciting.

Speaker B: Oh yeah. So gotta hire a thousand engineers next year. Say it again. Did you say a thousand engineers?

Speaker A: But uh, so I've just been, you know, we've been focused on technology partnerships, uh, people on the HR team even, and process and policies. I've said everything is on the table. Anything kind of goes and we have probably touched everything in two and a half years.

Speaker B: Ryan, you've heard that term radical, um, flexibility from Amy Mosher at Isolved. That was at the beginning, the of, of the pandemic. She's like, everything's on the table. There's nothing. Whatever we did before, however we did it before, doesn't matter. Yeah, I thought that was a, ah, great phrase also to carry through after Covid and into life. Just like, hey, no sacred cows. Whatever's there, if there's a better way to do it, more efficient way to do it, AI gen, AI agentic, AI, whatever the bit is, let's try it. If it doesn't work, rip it out. But, uh, Jessica, last question for me is, uh, best advice, you, career advice. Best career advice you were ever given.

Speaker A: That I was ever given. Um, don't burn bridges. Uh, you know, it is a small world we live in, and I tell my kids all the time, um, you know, your networks are your most powerful thing in your life and your career. And, um, I mean, I keep networks as vast and broad everywhere I can. And I learned very early in life, probably in high school years, about burning bridges and the, um, you know, the disaster it could cause, quite frankly. And, uh, you know, it's just something I, I think is the best advice and that I live by every day.

Speaker C: Jessica, this has been wonderful. Thank you so much for taking time out and coming to share your story. Journey's fantastic. We learned a lot.

Speaker B: I'm thinking about the criminal investigation. I'm still thinking about the criminal justice bit and how that ties to sexual harassment investigations. So that's where when you first said that, I'm like, oh, well, she's got to be really good at the investigation stuff because she's curious about it. I didn't bring it up.

Speaker A: Thankfully, we don't have a lot of that, which is, oh, yeah, thank God.

Speaker B: Yes, it has gotten better. But still, at least having a criminal background, a criminal investigation background, criminal science and psychology, uh, all those things kind of fit for me. Like, it now makes sense. Looking backwards.

Speaker A: Yeah, for sure.

Speaker B: All those pieces. You nailed it. Thank you so much for coming on the show.

Speaker A: I appreciate your time. This is a great time.

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