Siemens CEO (USA): Barbara Humpton

Speaker A: I stepped back from the podium and stood next to the president, and he leaned over and said, you know, insightful

Speaker B: and inspiring career stories from today's top CEOs, business executives and government leaders. I'm your host, Ash, and you're tuning in to the Executox podcast. Now, before we get into the show, I want to tell you about one of my favorite podcasts. I mean, like, top three podcasts to listen to. It's called the Optimistic Outlook, hosted by Barbara Humpton, CEO of Siemens usa. A new landmark infrastructure law means it's time to address our crumbling infrastructure. But what's next? Siemens USA CEO Barbara Humpton answers this question in her podcast, the Optimistic Outlook, where you'll learn about advancements in electric vehicle charging, how to solve the ongoing chip shortage, and a future with sustainable aviation fuel. Listen wherever you get your podcasts, I strongly, strongly recommend that you give it a listen. In this episode, we sit down with Barbara Humpton, Siemens USA CEO. Barbara grew up to parents who were both math professors, so initially set her eyes on being a math professor when she, quote, unquote, grew up after taking a job at IBM and working on a globally impactful project, she was hooked into the world of working on impactful technology to make our world a better place. Now, I won't give away too much before you listen, but if you do decide to listen to the entire episode, you will get to hear some of Barbara's formative experience, experiences that empowered her career journey. Barbara's advice for you, if you're thinking about changing jobs or making a career, pivot her take on the federal government's latest initiative to increase manufacturing in the United States, and what advice she has and what she would tell her younger self.

Speaker C: I'm joined today by a very special guest, Siemens USA CEO Barbara Humpton. Barbara, welcome to the show and thank you for being with us today.

Speaker A: Ash, it's great to be with you.

Speaker C: I hear that. Uh, by the way, one thing that I heard, that ever since you were a young girl in middle school, you've always wanted to be a grandmother, is that right?

Speaker A: That's right.

Speaker C: I'm in a high school classroom with you. Who is Barbara relative to other kids?

Speaker A: Well, um, you'll see me as an A student. You'll see me playing the French horn in the, uh, concert band and running track. I'm the person you're most likely to ask for help on your homework. I'm not the person you're going to invite to the big party on Saturday night. I guess you'd Say, a bit of a nerd.

Speaker C: Now fast forward a little bit into college. Um, I assume you chose to major in math in college because of your parents influence, is that right?

Speaker A: Yeah, I was raised with two parents who are math professors. I was raised with this idea that math is fun. And when I saw the kind of life we were able to live, my impression was, ooh, this is a great path. I really thought that I would, um, basically go to undergraduate mathematics, go to graduate school, become a professor, and then enjoy those semesters with students and summers of all kinds of fun. Uh, but that clearly is not the way it's worked out so far.

Speaker C: I also saw that you did a little traveling abroad when you were in school. You went to South Africa, Italy. How would you explain maybe living in a different country? Some of our listeners don't really know what that's like. How would you explain that to your younger self who hadn't yet experienced living abroad?

Speaker A: When I was younger, my parents actually had first hosted students from other countries. We had a student from Peru who lived with us. And it was, um, the American Field Service had a program that actually sponsored students to live with families in other countries. And I applied to participate. I didn't apply for a full year. We had had Marisa with us for a full year. But I decided that I would apply for a summer program and actually asked the organization. They said, name your top three countries of choice. I said, France, Germany or Switzerland. And they said, uh, they sent me a letter. Congratulations. We're sending you to Vanderbilt Park South, 1977, at the height of the riots, you know, that were going on outside of Johannesburg. One of the things that I share with everyone who will listen is that you don't know what you're going to learn from an experience in another culture. For me, the idea of taking my high school yearbook to show my classmates the experience that I had in, uh, a typical US High school and having them actually scoffing at the fact that we had an integrated classroom class of students. It was that shock to my system to realize not everyone around the world shares our values and view of the world. So you never know what you're going to learn. And that idea of being open minded, being willing to recognize that you can learn from others, is one of the true gifts of travel.

Speaker C: So now after school, you, uh, wanted

Speaker B: to be a private teacher.

Speaker C: Um, what happened?

Speaker A: Well, actually, maybe I should start with what my summer jobs were because, you know, everything had been a little unconventional. Um, I was the first female paper boy in my town. For instance, to raise money to go to camp. And then when I was off at school, um, I had been back for summers. Uh, we're doing a couple different things. One year a deckhand in Annapolis, Maryland, where my grandparents lived. I wanted to spend time with them. Um, another couple of summers working in the chemistry lab at the Virginia Military Institute, doing work on research regarding how to store nuclear waste, if you can imagine that. So it was, um. Yeah, I had really. I had always enjoyed variety, learning new things. And so when I was finished with my senior year in college, in fact, I had taken a year off to be a governess in Venice, Italy, and came back to finish my, you know, final year at Wake Forest. When IBM came to campus recruiting math majors, I thought, you know what? I ought to just see what this is all about. You know, this might make me a better professor if I've had a little bit of experience with a company like IBM. I mean, IBM, they were. They were shaping the world of technology. And sure enough, uh, they offered me a job. And interesting, the manager who offered me my first role at IBM picked my resume out of the pile because she's a sailor, and she saw that I had been a deckhand in Annapolis and thought, hey, that makes for. That makes for good discipline, and that'll be a good employee. So we were off to a great start.

Speaker C: Wow, what a coincidence. That's cool. So when was the moment then? You know, I've listened to some of your other interviews, and, uh, you say that you love working on impactful technology. When did you realize that working on impactful technology was what you wanted to do for the rest of your career as opposed to being a professor?

Speaker A: You know, I don't know that there was any moment where I sort of said, hey, this is it. And listen to me. Even now, I say, who knows? Someday I may be a professor still. So, you know, I think we all, um, follow paths as we go. And in my particular path, I mean, a feature of it was simply, um, having, you know, the. Having my windshield clear and having the headlights on so I could at least see a little bit out into the future, what's interesting, what's coming up. But you never know what's around the bend. So in my first few years at IBM, as I was working on technology that, I mean, it was classified, so I can't get into details. But knowing that we had a role in ending the Cold War, what we were working on, had that kind of global impact to me, was very meaningful. And I remember at a certain point I was offered a management position. And my, um, mom actually said, hey, are you ever going to go back to graduate school? And my words to her were, hey, as long as I'm having fun, I think I want to keep doing this. And so, Ash, that's really the way it has gone. It's been one. I mean, it hasn't always been joyful at every moment, but it's been one really fun thing after another.

Speaker C: Uh, so that early experience of, like, wow, like, this is actually world. Like it is actually world changing. It's stopping a war. And that experience was like, wow, this is that kind of maybe that excitement. And that kept you going?

Speaker A: Very much so. And, uh, frankly, even I'll just share with you that having that work be classified, knowing that we would never be able to tell others about it, but really valuing the moments when people came in to thank us for our work, you know, that we knew that it would never get any publicity. But being acknowledged by those who were doing the hard work on behalf of the nation was truly impactful.

Speaker C: You entered the engineering world in the early 80s when obviously, men largely dominated the field. It's a little bit better now, although it still needs improvement. And, you know, obviously you became a software programmer. That was kind of your first role at IBM, from what I know. And your manager or mentor told you to choose between being a mother and executive. You've told the story many times at the moment.

Speaker B: Did you feel hurt?

Speaker C: I mean, what was your initial reaction to that?

Speaker A: Well, I mean, uh, no, I don't think I felt hurt. I have this tremendous respect for authority. And so, you know, I had gone into this meeting, hey, you've been assigned a mentor, and you have the privilege of sitting down for the first time with your mentor so the two of you can get to know each other. And I recognized, you know, right off the bat that he actually didn't know me at all. If he had known me, he'd know that I already had two children. It wasn't a matter of a choice. And so then the question was, oh, is he trying to tell me that I'm actually not executive material? Because I've already made this choice. I think what he actually was saying was, hey, don't set your sights too high, because, um, the kind of attention, the kind of time that's required to be an executive in our organization is really, really hard for a working mom. He was somebody who had children and his wife stayed home. There were just so many expectations and stereotyp types all around us that I Mean at the time, Ash, I just, I kind of took it as a given and, and then you know, over time you start to realize that well, there's a lot I can do. And I just kept working. I mean I, I was involved in project after project. I was told time and again that my leadership style was like a breath of fresh air. And, and so I was like, you know, I can do more of that. And the more I engage then of course the further things progress. I think I've shared with uh, a couple of times the story that years later I actually had the chance to talk to that leader and to say once upon a time you actually told me that I had to choose. And it really ended up being a wonderful conversation. And it's interesting because to this day he still follows me on social media and has nice things to say from time to time. It's, it's, it's developed into a great relationship.

Speaker C: Yeah, I can imagine about how that went. That's kind of cool how like you weren't, you know, you weren't like oh, I remember you.

Speaker A: I, you know, uh, there's not, we, there's not enough time in life to harbor grudges and seek revenge.

Speaker C: So you know, you, you've been at Siemens now for almost 11 years and you were at IBM for a long time, over two decades. You know, you also spent a year uh, consulting from what I know at Booz Allen Hamilton. You know, I just kind of wanted to get your thoughts because we get a lot of these questions from listeners as like what are your thoughts about so called career hopping? Like do you think it's good to stay at a company for a long time or it's okay to kind of switch jobs every year too? Like what's your, what's your advice on like sticking with it versus kind of career hopping?

Speaker A: Yeah, this is such a great question. And I have, I have a distinct perspective that's grounded in having worked in large scale technology programs that um, that, that actually take time. And by the way the numbers are interesting. So I started in 1983 for 20. In essence I was working for the same organization, it was IBM. And then IBM sold its federal business to a company called Laurel and then Laurel merged with Lockheed Martin. And through all of that I was working in essence with the same core management team that huh, we had all started together. Lockheed, uh, Martin did a great job of um, merging cultures, bringing people from former ge, IBM, um, Ford Aerospace, et cetera. So by the time I left um, Lockheed Martin. So over the years Um, I had this experience of um, actually working on things for sustained periods of time. My first project, I was actually on the project for seven years. Many different roles, but seven years on the same project. And at the time a lot of companies were starting leadership development programs as a way to attract top talent to the company. What they would say is this, something like, come join us. And for the first three or four years we're going to give you the chance to rotate through different, different projects, see different parts of the business. And uh, a lot of people did get excited about that. But my observation was that they ended up behind everyone else. Yes, they'd had a little taste of a lot of things, but what they hadn't done, which is something I'd had the chance to do, is get into something, make mistakes, clean up those mistakes, get things on a better path, learn from them, build a new plan. All of those things that actually, and actually maybe I want to make the statement that one of the most important things for anybody to do is to stub their toe and get into tough situations and actually have to get through it instead of handing it off to the next person. So I actually mid career had a manager who said to me, you should do your job as if you're the Queen of England. As if you have to live forever with every decision you make. Right? You don't get to rotate out when you're the Queen of England. I love that idea that um, actually we can and should be accountable and learn as we go. So for those who move a lot, I think they're missing an opportunity that is extremely enriching. Now I also respect the fact that there are people working in fields where the cycle time moves much faster and it's okay to be jumping. I'll just say that right now as I'm looking for top talent to come into our organization, I am looking for that proven track record of being able to stay, make an impact and only move when the proof is there that you're ready for the next thing.

Speaker C: Uh, I like that. So in a way, staying in an organization for a short period of time doesn't allow you to make an impact at that organization. Because some, some most impactful projects are like long term projects. They take a while, right?

Speaker A: I mean you've heard the old adage that um, most overnight successes were 20 years in the making. So there is real value in staying. Just a quick story about, I'll call it the flip side of this. I once interviewed someone who had a resume that had lots of movement and I just asked him to give a recap. You know, why don't you take me through your chronology and explain to me what you accomplished in each of these roles. And the first role, he had left because, uh, he didn't like his manager. The second role he left because he didn't get along with his colleagues. The third role he left because his customer just couldn't understand the brilliant idea he was trying to push and et cetera, et cetera. And we finished this interview. I finished it 15 minutes early because I said what I'd like to do now is do post game color commentary with you. You. And I want to tell you what I've heard as a hiring manager. You've just told me that you're someone who can't establish relationships with the stakeholders who really matter, and you blame it on them. About a week later, I got a huge bouquet of flowers from this candidate. And I haven't followed recently to see where he is. But I sincerely hope that what he's done is that he's owned his own accomplishments and, or lack of them and is now really, um, you know, working on establishing relationships with the stakeholders that matter.

Speaker C: And I could totally see, like, how a hiring manager wouldn't want to give that feedback because it might be, you know, they're just like, oh, okay, we'll pass. Like, so the fact that you gave him that feedback, he does probably appreciative, like, okay, next time.

Speaker A: I hope so.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: So, I mean, what do you think, you know, out of curiosity, in today's day and age, what's like a length that you would say is a good length to stay at a company?

Speaker A: I think I'd gauge it on the role and, you know, you can look at these things, um, organically. Think about a role that you want to take. For a lot of people, it's, I need my first management experience. Right. And so you would hire somebody to take a management role. You certainly hope they're not going to leave very soon because think about the people who are depending on that manager. Right? The most important relationship in a company is between an employee and their direct manager. So when someone takes that first management assignment, man, they really need to be there over cycles of the annual cycle that involves, um, taking care of people's salary and benefits, taking care of assignments, seeing employees start to grow their careers. Is two years enough? Is three years enough? Um, we're talking in terms of years to really say, I've had that experience. I would suggest that you actually have to live through some of the Major people management milestones. Have you hired people? Have you had to separate people from the organization? Have you dealt with an employee who's had a major illness? You know, those are the kind of people things that are great experiences that I don't care what role you ultimately take in a corporation, if you haven't had those experiences, you've got a real gap in your resume. There are other roles related to maybe um, some what you might call a technical, you know, the product facing or a uh, customer facing role where you might tie your aspirations to a major milestone. Hey, I want to be there for the launch of a product. I need to see through the establishment, um, of a new mode of operation. Uh, but I would tend to tie these kinds of milestones to the organics of the business, you know, as opposed to any kind of just purely calendar driven timeline. Now of course there's always that serendipity, you know, when the phone rings and somebody says here's an opportunity. But I wonder how many people have had the experience I have, which is I'd be in the middle of some really critical thing and in fact things would be just at the depths of their difficulty. I'm having one of the worst days of my career and the phone rings and it's a headhunter saying, hey, I'm reaching out because my client is interested we in your leadership for some key role. And the thing that just surges through my psyche is that sounds like a great opportunity, but my work here isn't done. And I used to laugh about this, that the phone was never ringing when things were going like gangbusters and I felt I was settled and I could leave. It only rang on those days when I was. And that's how I ended up with 27 years with the same team.

Speaker C: How did they know? So, um, you talk a lot about having a good support network, right? Like that's important to you, you know, aside from family, obviously. How does a young professional, you know, in their 20s build a good support network? Is there a process to it? Is it just kind of like I

Speaker B: feel it or like.

Speaker A: Let me share something I learned from Jim Fitterling recently. He's CEO of dow, you may know. And um, we were in a discussion about workforce and he mentioned that he has erg and there's one ERG called Rise. It's the new employees in the organization. There's another ERG called Prime, the people with multi decades in the organization. And he had noticed this really incredible factor which is that prime and Rise had actually come together as two employee, ah, resource groups and started working with each other. Turns out that the more experienced members of an organization relish the idea of being able to form relationships and influence the newer members of an organization. For people entering an organization, I'd say do not underestimate the power you have to energize and excite those grizzled veterans in the organization. Reach out to them, ask to be engaged with them in ways of learning, ideating, you know, really bringing something to the table for the business. And I think what you're going to find is some of those seniors are just champing at the bit, waiting to be invited in.

Speaker C: Yeah, no, I can totally see that like what you can bring to the table is like the energy and then those relationships that you build with them are. Those uh, relationships don't go away.

Speaker A: They do not go away now. You know, I've seen this happen over and over again. We see it in our business at Siemens where you take a digital native and put them on the manufacturing flow floor just side by side with people who've been doing things, you know, and obviously evolving and changing their work environment over the decades. But when they're suddenly given access to an expert in digital tools, the digitalization transformation starts to accelerate. And so I think there are, I, um, think there's a real advantage for people entering the workforce today to share what they've been picking up in school about this new generation of tools. Tools. They can be a real catalyst for acceleration and change. Hey listen though, the second thing I would give as advice is get to know people who are in different functions. So you may come into an organization, say in a finance role and there are other people in the organization in engineering or software development or whatever. Make it your business to get to know your peers, the people who are in the same stage of their career as you are. Because what you're going to find is it's a very small community in just about every sector of the market and you'll see that people can support each other in all kinds of ways that won't be immediately evident to you, but the more you have that, um, you know, a common understanding with a group of people who you admire, you know, pick the ones who you recognize as the best employees and um, spend time with them. You'll learn a lot and you'll be able to help each other, other.

Speaker C: So I watched the State of the Union address that uh, Biden gave earlier this month. Obviously, um, you know, we want to move towards Made in America products. That was Kind of the big message. Uh, and Siemens being one of the federal government's largest vendors, I would imagine is involved. How is Siemens contributing to this agenda of Made in America?

Speaker A: Yeah, a lot of people don't realize that Siemens has actually been a US company for 160 years. Yes, our global headquarters is in Munich, um, Germany. A. Ah, fantastic, fantastic city. If you haven't visited. The US Is the largest market for the company. And the presence here has been strong and transformative. I mean from the very early days, focused on communication, electrification, automation, and now digitalization. Um, and when you look across this portfolio of capabilities we have, we've got know how that is just perfectly suited for this moment. All across the country we're making investments in infrastructure and we want the future of infrastructure to be more connected, more electric, more autonomous. And who are you going to go to? It's a company like Siemens who really has the, know how to be engaged in that. So one of the, one of the megatrends, um, we used to talk about, um, you know, globalization, the ever more global supply chains. And uh, several years ago that tide shifted and we recognized, no, no, no megatrend at work here is globalization. The idea that, um, yes, we can innovate anywhere in the world, but our objective is to make supply chains shorter, bring the ability to produce closer to the point of demand. And now all of this of course depends on being able to rebalance the supply of raw materials, et cetera. But it's underway. This has begun and right now is a moment when the US is actually investing, investing in globalization, bringing back manufacturing jobs. And we've got a brilliant opportunity right now that's going to result in tremendous growth of the US Economy.

Speaker C: I could see how the manufacturing in the United States obviously creates more jobs for Americans and makes us more independent as a country. But what about the economics, you know, because I know that a large portion of the semiconductors that we now use come from Taiwan. Uh, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the figure is like around 80%.

Speaker B: Will semiconductor chips be cheaper than importing from?

Speaker C: What about the economics of it?

Speaker A: Well, it depends on how big of a business case you look at, right? Is it cheaper to make semiconductors in the US if your alternative is extensive wait times for product? What we are seeing here is a true rebalancing of it all. And you might look at any individual component and say, and what happened in past years was people looked at labor rate, the cost of labor, and they said, we're going to move manufacturing to Low cost countries. And lo and behold, manufacturers, um, became more and more specialized. The labor costs became a huge factor in decisions about where to locate manufacturing capacity. And so all of those factors resulted in the situation we have now where you see really major specialization and then frightening single points of failure. I mean, right, think about cities in China shutting down and what that means to global supply, um, or you know, just shipping, uh, disruptions, et cetera. So I mean anywhere along that supply chain. So I think we're looking at a new kind of supply chain math right now, risk reduction overall that will make the case for itself, maybe not in any individual buy, but in aggregate. And then there's one other thing asked, which is the tools of manufacturing today, um, include much more automation. And what that's doing is making individuals much more productive. So to the extent that people are more productive than they've ever been before, it actually lowers the impact of that low cost labor that for so long was the, uh, driving factor. So I think what you're going to see is new math, if you will, for manufacturing, manufacturing, and it's going to make a difference.

Speaker C: My next point was going to be this is something that, you know, you kind of always hear about. Advancements in technology are going to replace human jobs. You know, so, you know, you talk about automation, so obviously there's some resistance

Speaker B: for people who are afraid that their

Speaker C: jobs are going to be replaced by a robot. Like, what does that mean, that I'm not going to have a job? You know, but obviously, obviously you said in your remarks in the White House, you know, a couple weeks back, that advancements in technology are actually bringing more jobs. So can you expand on that to someone who may be hearing this concept for the first time?

Speaker A: Yeah. Where I started on this thought in my White House remarks was this simple. From the first time a human picked up a rock and used it as a tool, tools have elevated the role of humans. I mean, right, what a human could do with the help of a stone, a spear, was far greater than what was possible before. And all through history this has played out. And there's a dark side to this, right, which is a lot of tool get used as weapons. We have to be cognizant of this. But where we use tools to elevate the role of humans, what we're actually doing is expanding what's humanly possible. That's what is coming in front of us. And after I made those remarks at the White House, I stepped back from the podium and stood next to the President and he leaned over and said, you know, it's not scary when you talk about it.

Speaker C: That's lovely. And, you know, one thing I was just curious about was, was what would you say is, like, kind of special about working for Siemens for somebody who's looking to enter the workforce?

Speaker A: There is no other company that has this portfolio right now when it is most needed. Look across this world of change we're dealing with, whether it's, um, climate change, urbanization, the aging demographics of people all around the world, the globalization we just talked about, the digitalization of efforts. Here's Siemens, a focused technology company, bringing together the real and the virtual world and solving these large problems. This is a place where people can make change as individuals in ways that are truly shaping the future.

Speaker C: Something I look for when I decide to partner with someone or hire someone is.

Speaker A: Is alignment. I'm looking for people who have a vision that aligns with the one we have.

Speaker C: The most important quality in a leader is vision.

Speaker A: People follow leaders because of what they see and where they're going.

Speaker C: Oh, uh, so like being able to

Speaker B: cast a vision, you mean?

Speaker A: Yes. Having a positive view of what we're building here.

Speaker C: Something that has helped me get past my personal fears and insecurities have been

Speaker A: time, years, old age, wisdom.

Speaker C: Something I've struggled personally with as a

Speaker A: leader has been those fears and insecurities. What a waste of energy.

Speaker C: Uh, something I do to make sure I feel productive and stay positive is work out. If I were to go back and talk to my younger self in my mid-20s, I would tell myself, stop working,

Speaker A: worrying about those fears and insecurities.

Speaker C: One setback or failure in my early 20s that I will never forget is

Speaker A: I, for the life of me, can't think of anything. What was said about me right from the very beginning of my career at IBM was the two words used to describe me were energy and enthusiasm. You know, it's funny because I just have been racking my brain and going, I mean, I know that there were tough things that happened, but nothing where I said that's. I would never use the F word. Right. Failure.

Speaker C: No, I think it's a good thing that the memory doesn't stay there, because, you know, for some people, it's like kind of like haunts them, you know, like a bad memory or something. But even if you did have like a small setback or something, you kind of just forgot about it.

Speaker A: There was a manager we had back in those early days who used to look people deep into their eyes and say, your greatest strength is also your Greatest weakness. And do you know, I met people 20 years later who were still haunted by those words, like, I just can't get over my greatest weakness. And I, on the other hand, was like, that's my greatest strength.

Speaker C: Yeah. The sweetest moment I felt in my

Speaker B: entire career was when maybe the sweetest

Speaker A: moment was when I had an employee come to me and say, you know, Barb, everybody says you're too nice, you know, and you are really nice. But what I've discovered is, underneath, you are tough as nails. I guess having somebody actually get it that, you know, we can actually work well together, we can have fun, we can enjoy each other and get things done. That's what I'm in it for.

Speaker B: Looking forward, if I could be remembered

Speaker C: for just one thing, it would be, oh, my grandchildren.

Speaker A: My grandchildren. Ash. Just coming back to where we started. You know, it's interesting because early on, the I want to be a grandmother was almost a cop out. You know, people were asking, what do you want to be when you grow up? And there were so many things to do that I just couldn't choose. So for me then to simply say, oh, a grandma. Was a way to answer the question and be done with it. But, uh, you know, through the years, it hit me that no grandmothers are so important. I loved my own. And this idea of playing that role for others, being somebody who was safe, who loved unconditionally, who had seen enough of the world to be able to say, you know what? Everything is going to be all right. That is what I really craved and cherished. And maybe having that as a life goal was a bit of a haven for me during those times when I wondered, what in the heck is happening with my career, right. This. This next role, or, hey, my mentor just told me that I have to choose. Right. Uh, at the end of the day, that thought that, hey, I'm going to be a grandma. And then, okay, getting through the teenage years with my children and thinking, I'm never going to be a grandma, because. But in the end, when it all works out and then you see these adorable can do no wrong little creatures enter the world. It is. It's truly a glorious experience.

Speaker C: What a beautiful, uh, full circle moment there. So the last one is, if I were stranded on an island and I had access to one meal, it would

Speaker A: be my husband's salmon filet. It's just the most delicious thing, and I could eat it every day, but I know that wouldn't be helpful.

Speaker C: Well, Barbara, thank you so much for taking the time today. Our listeners will really appreciate that you took the time and can't thank you enough for coming on.

Speaker A: Thanks for the opportunity.

Speaker B: Thank you so much for listening to this episode. Please check out Barbara's podcast, the Optimistic Outlook. Wherever you get your podcast, trust me, it's worth the listen. On another note, we are slowing down production of new episodes for a while, but we have a whole library of episodes that you can binge on our website or wherever you get your podcasts. I can't thank you enough for being a listener. If you ever want to connect with me, please please email me ashxecutox.com be well, my friend.