The B2B Podcast Index
Index
All categories
MarketingSalesSaaSFinanceHROpsLeadershipCustomer SuccessAI & DataProductStartups & FoundersRevOpsEngineering & DevTools
MethodologySubmit
Best of:MarketingSalesSaaSFinanceHROpsLeadershipCustomer SuccessAI & DataProductStartups & FoundersRevOpsEngineering & DevTools
An independent project byFame
SearchBest episodesGuestsInsightsMethodologySubmit a podcast
Index/Leadership/Office Hours with David Meltzer
Office Hours with David Meltzer artwork

Office Hours #892 | How to Lead Through Growth, Build Trust & Increase Profitability in Any Market

Office Hours with David Meltzer · 2026-05-28 · 39 min

0:00--:--

Key moments - from our scoring

Substance score

32 / 100

Five dimensions, 20 points each

Insight Density6 / 20
Originality5 / 20
Guest Caliber9 / 20
Specificity & Evidence7 / 20
Conversational Craft5 / 20

Ben Hansen, CEO at Profit Doctor, diagnoses a critical issue plaguing mid-sized B2B service companies: the myth that scaling revenue solves profitability problems. Drawing on his experience at Dell Computer, Hansen explains why companies growing from $5M to $10M often become *less* profitable despite higher sales - because incremental revenue typically carries lower margins and founders lose focus on contribution margin dollars rather than top-line growth. The episode also features Chad Gruen, CEO of Three Step Sports, discussing how the $40 billion youth sports market is experiencing renewed demand as parents seek balance for screen-addicted kids. Gruen shares how Three Step uses proprietary software called Player First to digitally connect field operations with family communications, reducing friction in youth sports coordination. Finally, Susan McKenty Brady previews her upcoming book on inclusive leadership, introducing six target actions for leaders navigating multi-generational workforces and AI-driven complexity. Business owners at $2M+ revenue facing profit plateaus, youth sports entrepreneurs, and leaders managing diverse teams will find actionable insights here.

Key takeaways

  • →Most growing companies focus on top-line revenue increases while ignoring bottom-line profitability and margin dollars, which often leads to decreased absolute profit despite higher revenue.
  • →Simply scaling revenue doesn't solve profit problems - if a company is less profitable at $10M than $5M, adding more revenue at $12-15M will likely make profitability worse without operational changes.
  • →Three Step Sports demonstrates that in youth sports, treating people (coaches, employees, families) as the priority creates better outcomes than chasing participation numbers alone.
  • →Digital transformation tools like PlayerFirst's proprietary software can significantly reduce operational burden on parents and families by centralizing information from field operations to family communication.
  • →Leading through diverse perspectives and returning to respect during high-pressure moments is essential for creating value in today's workforce with five generations and AI decision-making complexity.

In this episode

  1. 1Focus on Profit Margins Over Revenue Growth
  2. 2Youth Sports Industry Growth and Three Step Sports Success
  3. 3Digital Transformation in Youth Sports Management
  4. 4Leadership Actions for Inclusive Teams and Value Creation

Mentioned

David MeltzerBlaine BartlettRed PowerBen HansenProfit DoctorDell ComputerChad GruenThree Step SportsPlayer FirstCrowdHealthSusan McKenty BradySims University Institute for Inclusive Leadership

Guests

Ben HansenChad GruenSusan McKenty Brady

Topics in this episode

Inclusive leadershipCrowdHealthProfit DoctorDell ComputerPlayerFirst softwareThree Step SportsSims University Institute for Inclusive LeadershipYouth sports market ($40B)Margin dollars vs. revenue growthDigital transformation in sports operations

Questions this episode answers

Why do B2B service companies become less profitable when they grow from $5 million to $10 million in revenue?

When businesses scale beyond their founder's direct control, they often add unprofitable products, services, and team members, while pursuing lower-margin customers outside their core focus. The incremental revenue required to reach $10M-$15M carries even thinner margins than what they already have, creating a death spiral rather than a solution.

What should business owners focus on instead of just increasing revenue?

Hansen recommends focusing on contribution margin dollars and gross margin - the difference between revenue and the cost to deliver it - rather than top-line sales growth. Dell Computer exemplified this approach by requiring every investment to generate returns based on margin dollars, not just revenue volume.

What is the youth sports market size and why is it growing now?

The youth sports market is a $40 billion industry. Growth is being driven by parents seeking balance for children spending excessive time on screens, with families increasingly interested in recreational and competitive athletic programs that build teamwork, time management, and coach-player relationships.

How does Three Step Sports use digital transformation to make youth sports less burdensome for parents?

Three Step's proprietary software called Player First connects field operations (coaching, events) with on-site logistics (uniforms, travel) and online management, allowing families to access schedules and information from one platform. This eliminates the friction of parents not knowing basic details like uniform colors for game day.

What are the first two of Susan McKenty Brady's six target leadership actions?

The first two actions are understanding and regulating yourself under pressure, and returning to respect when it matters most. These actions form the foundation for bridging perspective differences and creating value in diverse, multi-generational workforces navigating AI complexity.

What our scoring noted

Our reviewer’s read on each dimension, with quotes from the episode.

Insight Density

6 / 20

The three ten-minute segments each contain one or two non-obvious points (e.g., incremental revenue is rarely as profitable as existing revenue; selling out of a profit problem rarely works), but every segment is truncated by promotional pitches before any depth is reached. Large portions of runtime are consumed by schedule announcements, sponsor reads, and platitudes rather than substantive content.

if you were profitable at 5 million and less profitable at 10 million, how are things going to get better when you get to 12, 13, 15 million?
selling your way out of a profit problem generally doesn't work in my experience

Originality

5 / 20

Every framework on offer is recycled: revenue-vs-margin focus is standard CFO 101, people-first leadership is a ubiquitous cliché, and 'returning to respect' is generic leadership content. Nothing here challenges a smart operator's existing mental model or argues from first principles.

so many business owners, they want to make sure they do great for customers. They want to make sure they're doing great for their team and they're focused on revenue
the number one thing that different differentiates the humans that last in this next era

Guest Caliber

9 / 20

Chad Gruen is a credible practitioner who built a real business over nearly three decades with identifiable scale (20,000 stakeholders, proprietary software). Ben Hansen is a consultant whose credentials remain vague, and Susan McKenty Brady is an academic author promoting a forthcoming book - placing two of the three guests closer to thought-leader than operator territory.

I took this underlying thesis that still resonates through Three Step today, almost three decades later, to personalized sport
we have, you know, upwards of almost 20,000 stakeholders in three steps ecosystem

Specificity & Evidence

7 / 20

A handful of concrete reference points appear - revenue bands of $5M - $10M, the Dell margin-dollar culture, 20,000 stakeholders, the 'Player First' software name - but none are accompanied by outcome data, case studies, or verifiable metrics. The numbers serve as illustration rather than evidence.

let's say now they're 5 million, 10 million, but they're less profitable than they were before, whether it's on a percentage basis or very commonly an absolute basis
Dell at that time is they were very focused on everything was driven about more margin dollars. If you invested in something, they wanted a return based on margin dollars

Conversational Craft

5 / 20

Co-host Blaine Bartlett generates the episode's one genuinely sharp exchange (authenticity vs. vulnerability), but the primary host dominates airtime with self-promotional schedule recaps, sponsor plugs, and rhyming slogans. Segments are cut off at peak rather than probed, and no guest claim is challenged or pressure-tested.

I've got a hunch that authenticity is not really what we're after here as much as vulnerability
We plum missed out of time, uh, but we'll get it next time

Conversation analysis

Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.

Share of words spoken

  • Speaker A35%
  • Speaker G18%
  • Speaker E14%
  • Speaker C11%
  • Speaker B10%
  • Speaker D9%
  • Speaker F2%

Most-used words

three21profit19back18thank15today15step14book14show13revenue13kids13office12sports12hours11better11love11different11

Episode notes

Ben Hansen is a profitability specialist, entrepreneur, and speaker widely known as “The Profit Doctor” for helping businesses solve what he calls “Profititis” - when companies generate strong revenue but struggle to maintain healthy profits. A five-time Inc. 5000 founder and former executive at Dell Technologies and Microsoft, Ben built and scaled an eight-figure staffing company before moving into consulting. Today, he works with owner-led businesses to improve cash flow, eliminate hidden profit leaks, and create more sustainable financial growth through his Profit Accelerator™ program and consulting services. Chad Gruen is the CEO of 3STEP Sports, the nation’s largest youth sports event and club operator serving more than two million athletes annually. He oversees enterprise strategy, operational growth, and digital transformation efforts focused on improving the experience for athletes, families, coaches, and sports organizations nationwide.

Full transcript

39 min

Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.

Speaker A: Welcome, everybody to Office Hours, episode 892 or so. We've, uh, missed a few in the counting continuum of office hours. I'm blessed to be here with two middle aged white men. That's right, we are politically incorrect on office hours. Uh, the incredible blame Bartlett will guide you, uh, to the reality that you desire, or even better. And of course, if you want power or, ah, more counter power. Red Power is here to join us as well with head of mentals. Gentlemen, thank you for joining me on Office hours. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: Hey, good luck in color on you there, Plum.

Speaker A: You like that? It's, uh, Julia is now dressing me, so it's good. I'll get a little feedback. Red, uh, just so you know, you think is it right? Yeah. All right. There we go. All right, Perfecto. Let me just tell you guys, we're gonna be in Newport beach today with Jay Abraham, Tim Story, John Coyle, uh, Bill Walsh. We got a big mastermind in Newport beach. And then I'll be in Japan with meetups, holding courts, interviews, uh, in Japan and then back into, uh, a great tour. We got Nick, uh, Saban and I in Louisville, Kentucky, Chicago, Kalamazoo, Michigan. Meetups, holding courts, VIP dinners for charity, uh, as well as, uh, coming Back to season 11 of Office Hours, a TV show hoping to see rep and blame Bartlett back on season 11 as the amazing anchormen that they are on our show. Uh, and then back back to Newport beach, uh, back to new. Well, um, so that's how you get to 200 cities. These car washes, holding court, meetups, interviews, masterminds, VIP dinners for charities. That seems to be the model that works to empower over a billion people to be happy and is in the waiting room. Enough about our schedule. Text me 949-298-2905 if you want to be invited or, uh, informed on where we're going to be. 949-298-2905. All right, Gigi, bring on Ben Hansen, the CEO at Profit. Dr. Howdy, Dave.

Speaker C: Can you hear me?

Speaker A: I can't see. I. It's.

Speaker B: Yep, we can hear you just fine there, Ben.

Speaker A: Perfect.

Speaker D: Perfect.

Speaker C: Uh, great to be here,

Speaker B: Ben.

Speaker A: Welcome, my friend. And profit. Uh, doctor, uh, definitely sounds like a prescription. Uh, I'm looking for and establishing owner led B2B service companies, uh, to real revenue, not what, uh, I call Barney partnerships. I'm wearing purple or as Blaine said, Plum today. Uh, but I used to talk about all the wasted business of people, uh, that had these Barney relationships. I love you, you love Me, nobody makes any money. Um, and uh, I'm pretty sure when we start our businesses, we all have checked a box when we started and it said for profit. But so many companies I coach, they're here to change the world, but they forgot they didn't check not for profit. They checked for profit. And you can't change the world without profit. So to have a profit doctor, uh, to help people that are leaving millions and millions of dollars on the table, what's the biggest mistake these entrepreneurs are making and why are they so motivated to help other people before they actually create profit for themselves?

Speaker C: You know, I think one of the biggest myths of mid, uh, sized businesses is that selling more will cure everything. If you just grow big enough, fast enough and generate enough sales and customers, everything is going to work out.

Speaker B: You know, that whole notion of scaling, which is essentially what you're talking about there, I think, Ben, um, oftentimes in my experience, the metric that people will pay attention to when they start focusing on scaling their business is the revenue increase. And to your point, we're selling more. But in order to scale, I've now got to assume some costs that I didn't have before. And ideally I'm going to be accounting for those. But most of the focus, again, in my experience with the clients with whom I've worked, most of the focus oftentimes uh, is on the top line and

Speaker A: not on the bottom line.

Speaker C: Exactly. That's what I see so much, so much of the business press, uh, cocktail party conversation is about scale and size and revenue and how many employees are you adding rather than profitability. I'd love to share just a quick little anecdote from my time at Dell Computer. I was walking in, I was talking to the uh, in the parking lot, the senior finance guy who was wearing a shirt just like David's, or at least that color. And uh, actually sorry, I'm confusing it, he was driving a minivan with exactly that color. And I'm like, my gosh, you're driving a purple minivan. And he said, no, it's plum missed. And I take the use plum missed in a sentence. So we're in this big like 50 person business review that day and I get up there and I say, we plum missed the forecast again, uh, in Austin. Maybe you could get away with that. But what I loved about Dell at that time is they were very focused on everything was driven about more margin dollars. If you invested in something, they wanted a return based on margin dollars. The difference between the revenue and the cost to Deliver that. And that's why Dell at that time was incredibly, incredibly profitable. And I just bring that up as a counterpoint to what so many mid sized business owners might be missing. When they focus revenue, revenue, revenue, they're not focusing on profit margin, dollars, contribution margin, gross margin, something that smells a lot more like bottom line and that can really lead people astray. Rhett, you're on mute.

Speaker A: Oh, he got muted again.

Speaker B: Yeah, you're on. There we go.

Speaker D: So that sounds great, but my question is, is that sounds easy for all of us who, you know, understands, you know, profit and loss and we understand EBITDA and we understand all that for the small business owner, medium sized business owner that's really focused on the service or the product. What are you really getting at here? Like what, what does all this really mean when we say look at? Because I just want to understand that a little bit more and make that more clear. Like, what do you, what do you mean? Like, what do we have to be really looking at?

Speaker C: Yeah, I guess I see something so common where when the business is a little bit smaller, let's say a million, 2 million, 3 million, it's pretty darn profitable. Uh, the business owner, their founder, their kind of hands and fingers are on everything. Uh, they're taking good clients, they're sticking to the knitting. Um, they have a handful of really great people kind of running things and then they kind of a victim of their own success, they start getting a little bit bigger, they kind of get a little bit, uh, farther outside of Main street, if you will, in terms of customers. They take on products and services that they're selling, folks that they bring onto their team. And then let's say now they're 5 million, 10 million, but they're less profitable than they were before, whether it's on a percentage basis or very commonly an absolute basis. But they're thinking, the way that I'm going to get out of this is if we can get another $2 million worth of revenue. What I think they're not appreciating is two things. Number one, if you were profitable at 5 million and less profitable at 10 million, how are things going to get better when you get to 12, 13, 15 million? Because it's unlikely that that additional incremental revenue is going to come for free. You're going to work so hard for it. It's often going to be less profitable than the revenue you already have. And since you're already kind of heading downhill, if you will, on your revenue percentage, that's probably not the way to go. So selling your way out of a profit problem generally doesn't work in my experience. Um, and just tying it back to what David said in the beginning. So many business owners, they want to make sure they do great for customers. They want to make sure they're doing great for their team and they're focused on revenue. And as a result, they're not focused on net, uh, bottom line profit contribution margin, uh, et cetera. And so then the company gets weaker and weaker. They're not taking care of themselves, and the whole thing can kind of unravel.

Speaker A: Yeah. If you need a profit accelerated program, if you need a great advisor or consultant, uh, to double your revenue as fast as you can finding those leaks, profit leaks that, uh, are just so hard and difficult to see in front of us. We need an extra set of experience eyes with situational knowledge. He's been doing it for years. That's why they call him the profit doctor. CEO at profit Dr. Ben Hanson will enhance your profit if you're interested. If you're a 2 million or above company, he can help you to regain the freedom that you originally wanted from entrepreneurship and the profit that you deserve. Ben Hansen promised us she'll come back on the show. We look forward to doing more with you. And thank you for changing, uh, the face of the bottom line for all of our community. We appreciate you.

Speaker C: Thanks, David. Look forward to coming back and giving you guys some tips on how to actually take action on this problem.

Speaker A: Yeah, we plumb missed out of time, uh, but we'll get it next time.

Speaker B: Very good.

Speaker A: Nice. All right.

Speaker B: Yeah, look forward to the tips. That's good.

Speaker A: Yeah, we, we didn't want to give away all the secret sauce. Go ahead. Reach out to Profit Doctor. He'll gladly give you a free consultation now. Chad is in the waiting room. Chad Gruen is here, uh, out of Chicago, CEO at Three Step Sports. And we'll be talking about his successful entrepreneurial journey and, uh, highlight why now is especially the exciting time in the youth sport industry and how three Step is capitalizing on this very moment. Why, welcome, by the way, to office hours. 892. 892 episodes or more. Chad.

Speaker E: Thank you.

Speaker C: Thank you.

Speaker E: Thanks for having me. Congrats on 892.

Speaker A: Yeah, thank you. I think it's a little bit more, but who's counting? Uh, anyway, uh, why is it, you know, I've been in this space a long time, so, uh, why is it the time now is so important for youth sports?

Speaker E: Look, I think when you take A step back at the younger generation. I don't think that there's ever a bad time to get outside and be athletic and balance what is happening in the world today. Um, so I don't know that today is any better or different than it has been. I think what's happening is there's more and more eyes on what's going on than there probably ever has been.

Speaker A: Ah. Uh, that's definitely true. Great point.

Speaker B: Yeah. And, yeah, I was surprised by this little fact. Uh, the youth sports market is a $40 billion market. I mean, I saw that. I went, what? Wait a minute.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's probably. Probably an underestimate, too, in my opinion.

Speaker B: Probably is. You got started, uh, Chad, you know, literally out of the truck of your car, and you ended up building in the, you know, in the Midwest. Uh, what. You know, I became, uh, one of the. The largest youth sports businesses in the Midwest. What was it that got you engaged with it? Number one, and number two, as you looked at the scaling question, what did you need to pay attention to in order to be successful with that?

Speaker E: Yeah, uh, perfect. Love the question. Thank you. Uh, you know what got me interested, uh, before I. When I. When I first started kind of out of the trunk of my car, was if you. If you wanted help in school, you'd call up your school, you'd say, I need help with math. You have a math tutor to help me, or can the teacher come early or stay late. If you needed help in a team sport, there was nobody to call. There was no way to actually know how to get better. And so I took this underlying thesis that still resonates through Three Step today, almost three decades later, to personalized sport. How do you create a team environment that individualizes the way we educate and mentor and support the next generation through the vehicle of sport? At Three Step, you know, our mission is to empower people through sport. It's not to win or lose.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker E: That is a byproduct of doing it right on the front side. And so, um, with that, then, Blaine, to answer your second part of the question is how does scale affect that? And what do we do? This is all about people, and I am a people first leader. I very much believe that if we treat our people right, they treat our athletes and their families right. And we have, you know, upwards of almost 20,000 stakeholders in three steps ecosystem. Anywhere from coach, employee, to referee to athletic trainer to, you name it. The ecosystem is large and it's really important. Every one of those stakeholders are invested in the athlete because at the end of the day, ignoring the market size, the athlete needs to stay paramount to the center of every decision that we make. And when we do that, we can continue to scale because it creates a better player and family experience.

Speaker F: You work hard to keep your family healthy, you eat clean, stay active, ask questions, and want the freedom to make the best decisions for their health care. So why does the traditional system still feel so expensive and disconnected from actual care? Crowd health is different. Built for families, entrepreneurs, and independent minded people, CrowdHealth is a community of more than 28,000 members helping fund each other's medical bills directly without restricting networks or corporate middlemen standing in the way. Over 40,000 medical bills have already been funded. It's not health insurance. It's a simpler, more human way to pay for health care. You choose any doctor you want. Plus a dedicated care advocate helps you navigate every step of the way because communities take better care of each other than corporations do. If you've ever felt frustrated with the traditional system, it's time to see why thousands of people are choosing something different. Learn more@, uh, joincrowd health.com that's joincrowdhealth.com Great.

Speaker A: Thank you, Chad.

Speaker D: Uh, this is fascinating to me. I wonder, and I don't know if this is true or not, I don't know if you're working in this space, but what are we doing? You know, all I see when I, when I'm traveling and around are kids on their devices and you know, um, they're not going outside and playing like they used to. They're not doing, like, they're not getting involved. Is, is that, is that a true statement or do you guys see an uptick in kids actually joining teams? And like, I'd love to know, like, what, what do you see in the environment? And are you guys working on that at all or talking about it?

Speaker E: Yeah. So yes and yes. Look, I'm a father of four, right? I have three girls and a boy between nine and 14. And you know, that's the heart and soul of all of us as part of a family. And yes, I come home and I see my daughter on her phone or my son on the computer and then yes, my first response as a father is, have we been outside yet? Have you invited a friend over for a play date, whatever the case may or may not be? Um, in terms of how it relates to three step on the field. Yes. What we notice is more and more families are, are, um, asking, inviting, excited for the recreational, competitive, athletic balance to what they have right you know Rhett, I think it, it's beyond just like the optionality in schools. They're in front of a screen more than they used to be two decades ago. That's just ah, where the world is, is today and where it continues to move. Um, and having a hands on physical activity with teammates starts to create the balance that, that is hard to find in other areas of life.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker E: Teamwork, time management, coach, player relationship, all of that education that comes with competition.

Speaker D: It starts with us too right at home where we're like push or uh, encouraging that they want to see us out there doing things too as adults. So it starts there too 100% and,

Speaker E: and at three step we remain super authentic. Right. It's, it's easy to say it, you got to live it. And so all of our coaches, all of our, our employee, uh, full time office where everybody comes from sport, we live, we breathe, we see it and so we can take that next generation of mentorship and, and education to balance what you're speaking to.

Speaker A: Yeah, when you're dealing with kids, uh, youth under 18, there's no lazy kids out there. There's lazy parents, lazy coaches, lazy teachers, uh, that aren't uh, empowering them. And you know, I, I know my mom who raised six kids, she made sure we were up at 5am and we were doing certain things, uh, when other kids weren't doing it. There's no, there's no lazy kids and uh, it's up to us uh, to do that. But it's also up to three step to provide the right opportunity, the efficiencies and you know, to finish off. You've been able to leverage as the chief strategy officer, uh, the digital transformation to allow parents to be empowered to make things a little bit more efficient and effective. Because it is a lot of work when you have four kids. I got three girls and a boy just a little bit older than yours. Uh, and my wife uh, just drove her last carpool, uh, after 27 years, uh, about two months ago. And it was a huge celebration, uh, as my youngest turned 16 and uh, I started to think about the amount of time, energy and effort, uh, so how has the digital transformation created more efficiencies for the parents so they don't have to be lazy or the burden is 8 to have their kids participating in these youth sports?

Speaker E: Yeah, it's perfect. Well, and if your wife is ever in Chicago and wants to get back into carpooling, just know there's plenty to go around.

Speaker A: Yeah, we, we just bought a place There. My daughter, My daughter works for F1 in Chicago, so we're there a lot. She'd be more than happy. I'm talking for her, um, uh, to run carpools for you.

Speaker B: Brilliant. Brilliant.

Speaker E: Well, congrats, Congrats. Um, yeah, look, the digital transformation, how this becomes easier is I'm sure you remember back in your house, as I have in my house, where my daughter or son will wake up in the morning and say, dad, what color shirt am I wearing this morning? The truth is, we should know. My son or daughter should know. This shouldn't be a chase to go get it done. And so what we've done at Three Step is we run this into three layers, pun intended, of, uh, what happens on field. That's what you're familiar with. It's the coaching, it's the events, it's the competition layer. Then we go to what we call on site. Those are the things like the uniforms, the travel, the et cetera, ancillary things. And ultimately we get to what we call online M, which is the vehicles in which we share this information with the proprietary software we use called Player first. And as we say inside Three Step, we want to get from the grass to the clouds. And when we can connect the grass to the clouds, when we connect the field all the way to the sky, we are able to drive our future, make sure the family experience is unmatched, and connect the tissue of youth sports that to date has been highly, highly fragmented, causing the what color shirt do I wear in the morning Question.

Speaker A: And ah, we know the answer to that is plum mistake. Uh, that's the color of the day and I'm continually utilizing plum mist as much as I can. Uh, we plum missed out as our youth of these screens. But today, get off your ass, get on the grass and your kids experience in the class. All right, enough of that alliteration. We are off and ready3step.com if you're looking for an easier and better way to utilize youth sports to empower your kids with the value of the character to do their best, learn lessons and have fun redefining winning, it's not participating. Winning is doing your best, learning lessons and having fun and actually just seeing that improvement or progress that we make by losing and winning games, but no participatory trophies anymore. That's my personal opinion on the matter. But as long as you do best, do your best, learn lessons and have fun with three step dot com. Chad, we're going to reach out after the show. I got a great introduction. You May know the guys in Ohio with Fedora Sports, uh, that I'm on the board of, um, some great people over there, Mr. Scott Nelson, uh, and others. So, uh, we will see you when we're in Chicago. We will do more with you. Everybody reach out to three step Com. Uh, it is probably the best thing you can do for your children is get them involved in youth sports. Thank you so much my friend. We'll see you soon.

Speaker E: Likewise. Take care.

Speaker A: Great job. All right, we are moving right around. Susan is in the green room. Susan McKenty Brady. No relation to Tom Brady, even though she's from Boston. Or maybe she is author, founder and CEO of Sims University Institute for Inclusive Leadership and has an upcoming book this July, all the Difference. Six leadership actions to bridge perspective, Strengthen teams and create Value. I can't think of three things that are more that are more needed in leadership today than uh, bridging these perspectives, strengthening teams and creating value. Susan, welcome to Office Hours episode 892 or so.

Speaker G: Thanks for having me. And yeah, it's been a good, it was a good run for the last, I don't know, 20 years to be be had the last name Brady and live in New England. Um, and I wish I had whatever you were just talking about when my kids were doing sports when they were kids. But you know, it'll improve for the next generation, right?

Speaker A: We are so excited about your upcoming book and we want to make a big difference in the world and to have a book about all the difference in leadership. You're looking at two, uh, world renowned thought leaders, uh, in leadership. If you're not familiar with Blaine Bartlett or Rat Power, uh, their pedigree is uh, far beyond the 892 episodes of Office Hours, that's for sure. Um, but you have these uh, six target actions uh, to create greater empowerment, uh, in leaders, uh, in those actions, uh, give us a few uh, insights on what actions could have the most impact and what we can look forward to reading about in your book.

Speaker G: Okay, well, so, so first, just to set the context right. Leading today requires a new way of showing up and um, I'm honored to be in present company. I think we all know there's been something missing. Um, the workforce is more difference filled than ever. Uh, be that five generations now. Um, the speed at which AI of course is creating complexity not just about decision making between human humans and humans, but decision making between humans and artificial intelligence. And um, the decision drag and the false alignment and the conflict avoidance and the mishandled messaging, uh, that is happening now is creating, um, an opportunity for value creation. And so when we think about seen and unseen differences being an opportunity for value, it's actions that leaders take in the moment that are going to drive, that are going to determine whether value is depleted or frankly created. Um, and so we do have, um, the six target actions. Thanks for asking me about that. Uh, you know, I'll give you the first two. Uh, they do build on one another. Uh, and it starts with, you know, understanding ourselves and regulating ourselves under pressure. Um, so returning to respect when it matters most. The fulcrum of our work and my two co authors, they're awesome. They would probably answer this differently because the three of us together are literally all the difference, um, and have a lot of different perspectives. But I think the fulcrum of the whole book is around returning to respect when it matters most. Because learning stops, teamwork stops, cohesion stops, trust stops. When we think we're better than another and just. We stop listening when we're standing in certainty and we think we're right. There's no learning going on anymore. And people feel diminished, devalued, and eventually quit. And they might quit, but stay, especially in this employment climate. But oftentimes they quit eventually. So. So the whole work is about creating a new level of awareness and, and, um, and frankly, conscious awareness on how to lead with and through others and that do not see the world the way we do, that might not even express or have the same tolerance to risk or communicate, um, or problem solve the way we do. Uh, and getting really good at this, I think is going to be the number one thing that different differentiates the humans that last in this next era and lead and not Blaine.

Speaker A: This is right up your alley sweet spot here.

Speaker B: Um, just by the way, can I

Speaker G: just tell you one thing which is an inconvenient truth? I have two Portuguese water dogs. My books are literally off the press and arriving on ups. They're going to see the UPS truck and they're going to go bananas. And I apologize now if we're interrupted by like crazy. But it's a kind of a cool moment because it is the actual book coming from Harvard.

Speaker B: Yeah, well, as soon as they start barking, my, my two Pomeranians are going to do the same thing. Yeah, the idea of authenticity, leadership authenticity is just. I mean, this, this bogeyman that's out there. Um, I, I'm fascinated by the way that you're actually positioning this because the, the notion of, uh, leveraging my real self, my best self lends itself to thinking authenticity is the way to go. But I've gotta. I'm gonna check this out with you. I've got a hunch that authenticity is not really what we're after here as much as vulnerability. And when we're looking through the lens of how can I, uh, what does vulnerability make possible? Well, vulnerability makes possible awareness about noticing things that I've never noticed before. It also makes possible connection. People connect through vulnerability. They disconnect through certainty. And the idea of leaders positioning themselves as being certain all the time doesn't give room for people to grow. It doesn't give room for the leader to grow because nothing gets challenged. How does your work actually address that if in fact it does?

Speaker G: Yeah, it's a great. I just wrote a piece actually about authenticity, um, pertaining, uh, to this model. And I could talk to you about this for a while. The, the thing that you mentioned about vulnerability. Here's the deal. It's just as true, is we're not going to do this well. And that creates equal level playing field for us all to be bad at something. Right. So the more I, um, am able. One of the target actions is activating honesty. The way a leader activates honesty, as you know, is you. You say what's. What's real, you say what's. So you talk about what's hard and, and it's vulnerable to talk about when we're not making it happen, or when you made a mistake or when you took a risk and it didn't work out. But if I don't do that, if I don't lead the way, if I don't show people that, like, you know, I, I'm not perfect as a leader, especially in the context that we're leading in right now. Um, how would I expect other people to do that so that we can come to a better outcome? So I think at the heart of, um, the book is this micromanagement of oneself so that we can show up in a way that other people can come in, bring what they got to give, and know that they don't have to be perfect as they carry on, um, working together. I, uh, really worry about the certainty, about the justification, um, about the inconsistency of people's behavior. Right now I say I value this, but I do that. Um, and any emotional regulation, uh, that leaders bring the weather. And so all of that is ripe for just killing, innovation and problem solving and all the things we say we want, never mind having a connected experience with one another, feeling like we're going to Work and mattering. I think mattering matters. Meaning matters. So how do we set the context for that? Regardless of if you're an extrovert or an introvert or where you grew up or how you identify, you know, and it does directly relate to the value we create. Perfect.

Speaker B: Thanks Susan.

Speaker D: Susan, uh, I'm going to follow this line of conversation, I think. Sorry, I've got a little bit of feedback there, but I was hoping we would get an unboxing here on office hours today. I don't know if that'd be the first book unboxing on the show history, but it doesn't look like we were going to get it unfortunately. Um, but I was talking to a chr yesterday chro that I coach big, big company. Um, and he was talking about how they are having a lot of trouble with people who sit next to one another who are on teams together and they're not talking because of their differences, political differences and other things because there's just the animosity because of beliefs. And you know, we are having trouble talking to one another today, uh, in society. Right. And this is, this is happening in our businesses too. What's your advice to a leader that's listening to this, that's got teams that are.

Speaker G: Good morning.

Speaker D: That are struggling to communicate in that way.

Speaker G: The harshness, um, begins between our ears. We, we stop being open minded well before we interact with another human being. And my advice would be what do we have to learn from each other? The intolerance is at an all time high. Right. Like you say. And I think we, where do we as leaders, what can we put in front of our teams that we actually can work together on, that we can drive forward as a team. Because I actually don't think it's realistic for us to put together a bunch of people and think that we're going to get to. Yes. Around a political topic in this day and age, um, around some of our values we might not see, um, the same. But what is the thing that we can work on together that we can honor in each other about a strength we bring. Um, about value we bring to others about something we do together and can accomplish together and that fostered still connection. So it's looking, I think, and I'd love to hear your opinions about this fostering, looking for moments to foster connection, um, by being real about what's hard and saying look, we don't all job number one. I know we don't all think and, and we don't all think the same here. We don't all have the same beliefs. We don't all reach the same conclusions. We are, however, all working on the same team and open the dialogue for how can we do this effectively and then use the six target actions? I would say, you know, it's going

Speaker A: to be a must read. You can pre order it now. Check out the amazing upcoming book all the difference, and Susan McKenzie Brady, uh, CEO at Simmons University Institute. Uh, learn about inclusive leadership and how to be a leader, not just for today, but for the future. Susan promised us you'll come back on before the book launches. Everybody pre order that book. Uh, we'd love to have you. We have so many different shows. We'll be over 900 by then. Leading, uh, all the difference.com pre order the book now. Thank you for joining us and we'll have you back soon.

Speaker G: Thanks so much for having me. You guys have a great day.

Speaker A: Congrats on the book. Go open those boxes.

Speaker G: Thank you. I know. I'm waiting for it.

Speaker A: You got it. How exciting. All right, gentlemen. You know, it's my favorite time of the day. It's the takeaway of the day. Rhett Power, what's your takeaway of the day? Man, man, man, man.

Speaker D: I don't know. Struggling with that. Um, they were all different, and they're doing such different things. But I. I go back to my. My fallback takeaway, which is I just love these conversations with people who are doing things that are impacting the world. And go back to, you know, Susan. I mean, I think that's a conversation that she started with this new book that's. That's really relevant and really important, and that was relevant advice for people who are struggling on bringing teams together. Uh, I love. I love what, you know, uh, what, what? Uh, I think it was, um, Paul. Uh, is it Paul? Yeah.

Speaker A: Um.

Speaker D: Oh, Chad. What Chad is doing with. With the sports, uh, with you. Sports. So another quality show. Another reason. Three reasons to listen and watch us every Thursday. And that's my takeaway.

Speaker A: I love it. Blaine, what do you got?

Speaker B: Uh, I'm gonna just pick up on something that Rhett just said here. The quality of the show. Um, specifically, the quality of the guests. Yes. We had three different guests that are at the top of their game, uh, in that domain that they happen to be playing in. And the fact that they are coming on this show says a lot about. And this is the takeaway here about the quality that we continuously deliver 892 episodes. The qualitative nature of what we're doing, and these are short conversations, 10 minute conversations. But we have a waiting list of people that literally, not just knocking on the door, they're beating the door down to come on the show. And I, I want to just give a tip of the hat. And this is my takeaway. A tip of the hat to the quality of the team that you've assembled, David. Um, and putting this together, and we keep coming back for more. Um, and this has as much to do with the guests today as. As well as just the whole, uh, infrastructure, uh, that we've assembled, you know, that makes this possible. This is a. This is a rare treat. I think this is a master's. Master's, uh, class in how things can be actually operating. So I want to thank you for that, and I want to just acknowledge everybody that's been a part of this today.

Speaker A: Yeah, acknowledge my team especially, uh, building out the brand, building out the community, building out the show, production, recruitment, all the different facets of the millions of dollars that we spend in building, uh, this over many, many years to do 892 or so of these. So, uh, they're exceptional and biggest compliment you can get. I think my takeaway for the day is, uh, how fast things are changing in every realm. So although, uh, there's this differentiator, uh, all the people want to bridge perspective as change is accelerated. And I know that Susan talked about the need to be better or the need to be right. I don't agree. Uh, it's just a need to be separate. And so the idea of bridging perspectives through appreciation, forgiveness, and accountability, uh, is my takeaway of the day. And that if we look at things when they separate quickly, uh, which they do when change is as rapid as it is, that we have to focus in on these leaders, uh, today, like Ben, Chad and Susan, that are bridging the perspectives and bridging it through appreciation, empathy, and, uh, accountability. So I'm blessed to have two of the great thought leaders, which is why we have such great attraction to this show. 892 episodes. We do have a long wait list. We're trying to accommodate it with all the different shows that we have, uh, from all that we do all week long, uh, come and join us. Blaine Bartlett. Blaine bartlett.com. change your mind, change your heart, change your handset with Blaine Bartlett. Turn your possibilities to reality. And the king of hedimentals, the amazing rep Power. If you want to gain power and create less counter power, then reach out to ret power. Ret power. Thank you for joining me, Blaine Bartlett. Thank you for joining me. We will see you guys next Thursday on office hours, uh, episode 890 through price six by then. All right, thank you so much. All right, real quick. We are in Newport beach right now. Uh, VIP dinner tonight. Mastermind, still time to come join us for dinner. Uh, go ahead. Email Nick directly. Dmeltzer.com uh, after Newport Beach, Japan, holding court meetups, masterminds, VIP dinners. Louisville, Kentucky. We got Tim Story, Jay Abraham. Uh, we're loaded. John, uh, Coyle. Kalamazoo, Michigan. Uh, Las Vegas, season 11 of Office Hours in the lobby of the Wind. And back to Newport beach with Tim Story. There's a couple other things in between, but if you want to meetups, ask me anything. Holding courts, interviews, mastermind speeches. We got it all for you. But you better be informed, you're gonna miss it. You'll plumb miss out on David Meltzer. You'll plug this out on David Meltzer, unless you belong to our community. 4, 9. Next three numbers, 298. Last four numbers, 5998-2905 or David beloved at D first initial, Meltzer, servant David at dmeltzer. Com. Remember, most interesting. Be kind. Be kind to your future self and do good deeds. Thank you.

Related episodes across the Index

Other episodes covering the same guests and topics, from across The B2B Podcast Index.

  • How to Find and Win Your Next Leadership Role With Richard TriggsThe People Leaders Podcast · on Inclusive leadership71 / 100
  • The DEI Questions Leaders Ask Behind Closed Doors With Lily ZhengInclusion at Work · on Inclusive leadership69 / 100
  • The ROI of Psychological Safety in Business with Donald ThompsonFrom The Top with Chad Hesters · on Inclusive leadership68 / 100
  • Taking Action for Gender Equality: Practical Tips for Individuals and OrganizationsTalk Roleshare · on Inclusive leadership62 / 100
  • Africa's Biggest Economic Problem Isn't What You Think | Eyvonne Anthony-ElekoKing Dems Podcast · on Inclusive leadership52 / 100
  • EP52 | It's BackThe BRAVE Leader Podcast · on Inclusive leadership36 / 100

More from Office Hours with David Meltzer

All episodes →
  • Office Hours #900 | Leadership Under Fire: School Safety, Trauma Recovery, and the Power of Resilience42 / 100
  • IG Live | From Yankees Batboy to Entrepreneur: Inspiring Stories of Dreams, Legacy, and Reinvention46 / 100
  • Office Hours #901 | The Future of Business: Nuclear Energy, AI-Powered Growth & Eliminating Toxic Workplaces47 / 100
  • Office Hours #899 | How to Thrive Through Economic Uncertainty, AI Disruption, and Rapid Change47 / 100
  • Office Hours #898 | Made From Mistakes37 / 100
Explore the best B2B Leadership podcasts →
All Office Hours with David Meltzer episodes →