Mason Cosby - Leveraging Technology in Account-Based Marketing for Revenue Growth

Speaker A: People can't buy from us if they don't know that we exist. And we're making sure that the right people that we want to know that we exist, know that we exist. And that is a helpful metric to measure from a marketing perspective, not necessarily a whole revenue organization perspective, but marketing should have those kinds of metrics measured.

Speaker B: Welcome to the Marketing Leadership Podcast brought to you by Listen Network. Join your host, Dot Oyobulu, as He learns from CMOs, agency leaders and and business leaders about the state of performance marketing. Plus insights on strategies, campaigns and intelligence for commercial impact. Connect the dots and enjoy the latest episode.

Speaker C: Hi marketers, this is Dots and welcome to the Marketing Leadership Podcast. With me here is Mason Cosby, founder, uh, at, uh, Scrappy abm. We will discuss leveraging technology in account based marketing for revenue growth. We have here in the studio one of the greatest when it comes to account based marketing. So I'm really excited to do this. Welcome, Mason. How are you doing?

Speaker A: I'm doing incredibly well. You've now significantly inflated my ego because now I'm one of the greatest and I just thought I was a guy that was somewhat decent in abm. So I'm excited to, to be here and hopefully I live up to the title of greatest. I probably won't, but hopefully some people get some. A couple of things out of this.

Speaker C: No, no, absolutely. And you know, um, buyer journeys has changed. I guess you are sort of like in the right place, right time, which is why I'd like you to tell us a bit about yourself, your background, how you sort of found yourself in abm. Because I'm almost feeling like to the end of the decade it's ABM, um, especially in B2B, you know, customer buying journeys have changed. So tell us about how you discovered this new world and, uh, you know, living the dream.

Speaker A: Yeah, so I, I came up actually through sales. I then transitioned agency side in that agency. We helped our clients build account based marketing programs. And I had this incredible job, uh, at a point where I was marketing the agency itself. So I marketed marketing to marketers and because we were marketing to marketers about account based marketing, my boss said we need to build an ABM program for our own company. So one, to this day, probably still my most fun job of all time, marketing to marketers. Because I just like figured stuff out and then I educated people and then they bought from us. It was so fun. So anyway, that was the first Scrappy ABM program that's probably built three or four years ago at this point. I didn't call it a Scrappy ABM program. It was just like my job. And I was just doing that. And really, as I started to build that more and more, I recognized, oh, this is unique, this is differentiated, this is really, really helpful. So I ended up transitioning out of that agency, worked in house for a little bit, and then people just kept asking me for help and support. And, uh, then finally somebody said, hey, I've taken all your advice and launched my own consulting business and I'm working for myself. And I was like, all right, that's it. Like, if you're using my advice to go launch your own business, I probably put my own money where my mouth is. And we've, uh, been doing Scrappy ABM full time for about six months. And so far it's, we've helped a lot of clients. We're working about 20 different clients over the past six months and seeing great results and see them come back for more. So that's the high level.

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. And, um, you've been growing a ton as well. It's, it's incredible. And, uh, you know, as your friend in the industry and partner as well, food disclosure, I, I can only wish you great things. But before then, we need to tap your brain and get some ABM wisdom, you know, out of the way. And when I was working about this, I was like, uh, what do we do? You know, I thought it would be a nice thing to actually look at ABM from a technology perspective, leveraging that as a means for B2B business growth.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: So when it comes to the strategies at the top, you're again marketing to marketers. And, um, so you're helping a lot of companies directly when they come to you. You know, hey, Mr. Scrappy ABM, I need your help. What's that process like, you know, in saying, yes, ABM is one to one, but ABM can also be, you know, one to one many times. And, um, that can be used, that can be achieved through technology. So how do you help them to get through that? You know, what I would call digital transformation, if there's any of that involved.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's a great question. You know, a lot of what I do at Scrappy ABM is, I think, very strategy first. So a lot of abm, um, programs are very tech first. So they go buy the ABM platform, they go buy the data enrichment platform, they go buy the sending platform, and at the end of the day, they try to go essentially buy abm. What I mean by that is nobody goes and buys inbound, they don't buy outbound, they don't buy content marketing. But as you hear some marketers talk about the concept of avm, they, they literally use the words in the language, I'm going to buy avm. So as much as I recognize the technology is super helpful, there's only so much technology that you effectively need to actually get started with account based marketing. So where I live as scrap avm, it's often referred to as the crawl, walk, run approach to an account based marketing program. We live in the crawl space so we're very focused on right foundations, right people, right processes and from a tech perspective, really the only things that are required in order to launch an account based marketing program would actually be a CRM. We can run without a marketing, uh, automation platform but it's incredibly difficult because without the marketing automation platform it's very difficult to actually get any level of attribution and reporting. And I don't care how scrappy you are, somebody wants some level of revenue based reporting. So again those are really the two core pieces and I want to give quick context of uh, if you want to get really scrappy, you know, you can buy HubSpot Starter and HubSpot Starter, if I'm mistaken it's either 300 or 600 bucks a year. Like it's not very expensive. So again, you can start very scrappy and then use a variety of free tools like Apollo for data enrichment and outbound sequencing. You can use tools like Propensity to get third party intent data. You can use tools like Warmly that de anonymize your website traffic. So with the sheer volume of free and available tools today, you can build a scrappy AVM program, only paying for a CRM and only paying for marketing automation.

Speaker C: Yeah, that makes sense. And uh, again, full disclosure, I learned about Warmly from Mason. So this topic is just so appropriate. Uh, you put it that way. We use that, we use warmly in our uh, marketing along with uh, lead feeder. Different cases, different use cases, but we still do that till data. So thank you for activating that. You know, when it comes to that. But I agree with you, I think it's strategy first. Um, when you're going through with tools it's almost about the tactics and not the strategy. But you want to look at the strategy, you want to look at the product market. Fit much? I'll say a little bit more easier to do with B2B because you've got this product, you know where it's going to, you know you are Serving you have the funnel, you have what we call, I took this course in Columbia University two years ago, the decision making process of your customer. And you have all those things dialed in and then see how ABM is able to plug into that and then add the technology at the end, which sort of makes sense with what you said. You know, you, you crawl, you walk, you run, maybe you fly if everything goes well over time. Okay, next question is every time there is a technological innovation, there are cynics like ourselves. I'm not a cynic, just joking. Say, ah, tech is here. You know, he's gonna do this bad thing, he's gonna kill us all, he's gonna take our jobs, gonna do all these things. And in ABM they say tech is going to remove the. The nice thing about abm, you know, the business romance, if we put it that way, between individuals. What do you say to those people? Are they right in saying that abm, um, cannot work without technology and still deliver a human to human touch or they are just not looking in the right places?

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean I think there was some research that came out from lavender or outreach and it was something to the extent of a manual email that is sent has a 1200% higher open rate than a automated email. So again, I think we're all getting a lot of the spam. So some people will look at ABM and say, uh, oh, I'm going to go build my target account list and I'm going to go after 30,000 accounts and I'm going to look at the entire department. So you're going to have 40 people for my 30,000 accounts on my target account list and then I'm going to provide this list of people to our SDRs and they're going to go send out an email sequence and they call that abm. So in that context, yes, technology has ruined business relationships and the ability to actually move a business forward. But that is where I'm coming back to. That's the, that's wrong strategy. So a lot of what I help clients do and think through is what are the very specific intangible triggers and, and things that people on a target account list are actively doing as it relates to our business that would indicate to us they are a good fit. So prime example, target account that hits the product pricing and schedule a call page. If they have hit all of those pages on your website and they're a rate fit customer, yes, we should absolutely reach out. But somebody that is in your total addressable market and I put that in quotes. Because total addressing markets are often pitched to investors to show that we have a $2 billion industry of potential if we close the. And it's just ridiculous. So again, your total addressable market. You had an intern hit your website. Oh, obviously they're a hot account. We have to go after them. That's a waste of time. So again, recognizing the layers and that's why I, I continue to harp on, and probably will always continue to harp on. You have to have the right strategy and thinking through. Yes, technology is helpful. I think the value that technology provides is the ability to scale and automate and make easier a proven strategy. But buying technology is not the strategy. So I think that directly addresses the point of there will always need to be a human touch. There always need to be a strategist and somebody that thinks through. How do we. Even if we templatize and have great playbooks, a lot of what we do is very playbook focused. But those playbooks have to be nuanced to that individual business and to those individual customer bases and those individual prospect databases. So you just take a template in a playbook and you just blanket apply it. That's where you get these mass email sends that are. Oh, but we have a template announced sequence that's proven X amount of ROI and like, no, it's nuanced, it's changed to match the business needs. So that's where I don't think technology will replace people from a holistic perspective. It may minimize the number of people that are involved overall, but there will always be human involvement in order to effectively build and scale an ABM program.

Speaker C: Did that make sense? I mean, I would rather see technology as more of an enabler to be able to let marketers, you know, then go above and beyond in their abm, whatever initiative that is. You know, for example, podcasting is an ABM tool. Actually, we got through to you through account based podcasting. I interviewed Jay Schwerson and it's. He spoke about you and, and that was it. That was, that was how it worked. But how did, how did I make that conversation work from that point of view? I had prepared a brief for the episode and it was like, I think it was about direct mail. I said, yeah, why would do that? I am not so, you know, it's not as a progressive, a, uh, topic. I'm like, I'm here for you. Let's build an agenda right now and just give me 10 minutes and I'll build an entire agenda on just standard digital email marketing. And AI will not do that. And AI would say, oh, okay, you know, it doesn't work. Next person, right? So I think that's really where some of those things happen. Because of that gesture that I made, I was able to. You recommended you and um, here we are today. So make technology the enabler. Obviously, tech has come to stay, AI has come to stay, automation has come to stay. All those things help in a way, but let it enhance your strategy from an ideation perspective. Let it be an enabler in saying, for example, you know, how can I connect to this account in a more personal way? And AI can give you different triggers on how to do that. And then you can pick the trigger that works, develop on that and um, create something that is more personalized instead of asking AI to do the communication, which is what a lot of people are doing these days. You know, I just got 3,000 followers on LinkedIn and man, amazing. I get 10, 15 outbound emails every single day. I don't know how much you are getting at your. Well, it's probably crazy. So I know people are like, I need to hire someone to look through all these emails, but just do it well, just do it well if you're going to use technology, I think it's all what we are saying here. So I have one more question before we go on a break. When it comes to tracking the impact of abm, brand perception, relationship building, and all those things that you cannot find in a pixel are things that ABM often delivers. Now this is a bit of a tricky question. And technology has advanced so much that we can start to say, oh, this was impossible five years ago, but can we do it now? And um, what that means is in this case is are there some instances where you can use technology for a data analysis perspective to track and measure, you know, this, I guess unmeasurable soft metrics. Are there ways that that can happen? Are there certain things that we can still measure? How should we, you know better than I do. The I, I would call him the face, the poster boy of B2B, Chris Walker. He has always talked about why the obsession over attribution is something we should stop doing. But there still needs to be something to measure. Right? So how does that work? How when ABM clients come to you, uh, you know, want to measure this, want to measure that, what do you tell them to measure? And how do you measure that to technology?

Speaker A: Yes. I mean it always is going to come back to sourcing and specific revenue. So like that is the core metric that things should be measured up against the, the specific nuance to that front would then be obviously B2B sometimes is a longer sales cycle. So we've worked with clients in which they have a 12 to 18 month sales cycle. So you know, if we're doing a uh, 30 to 45 day project, let's be really clear they're not going to see close one revenue in a 30 to 45 day project if their sales cycle is 18 months. Instead it might be again I think the dream metric for everybody is always measure source revenue. It's always to measure source pipeline. There is some value. I don't think it's the end all be all value, but there is some value specifically in influenced revenue. So understanding how marketing worked with an active deal that was in pipeline to accelerate that deal into the next stage. And again I've seen certain clients with much longer sales cycles that actually run dedicated programs that are account based programs exclusively on their pipeline. And what they've seen is they've been able to shorten their sales cycle from 18 to 12 months. And in that context that's a huge win. Um, because again if you can accelerate revenue from 18 to 12 months, yes, it may not have been sourced, but it's now not just pipeline actually closed one revenue, it's closed customers. So again those would be the, the main three or four metrics that I would look at would be again marketing sourced pipeline influenced revenue, marketing sourced revenue. And uh, then the last component to it, to the best of your ability, that's more of a leading metric would be account level engagement. So again, as I'm building my own business, a lot of what I'm recognizing is I, I cannot necessarily directly impact the results. What I can impact is the, the reps that we put in to actually delivering the results. So again I am less focused with our team on did we have perfect communication with our clients and I'm more focused on did we have at least a weekly touchpoint with our clients and with specific clients, are we having a daily touch point if they feel happy or not about the level of communication, I can't control that. But what I can control is the level at which we communicate. So again, from a leading perspective, you may not be able to control exactly when account enters into pipeline, but you can control is do we have the right decision makers and right people in the buying community, the right influencers that know that our brand exists, are they seeing value added content on a regular enough cadence that they would actually have a positive brand affinity towards us? Do we See them exploring our website. Those are all leading indicators. That's account level engagement. Most people in the C suite will not necessarily care about that because it's kind of reporting on impressions to some extent. But again, it's strategically saying people can't buy from us if we, if they don't know that we exist. And we're making sure that the right people that we want to know that we exist, know that we exist. And that is a helpful metric to measure from a marketing perspective, not necessarily a whole revenue organization perspective, but marketing should have those kinds of metrics measured.

Speaker C: I like that. So I'm going to unpack a few of those. At the top funnel, you are doing demand generation, which I think is what it's called, whereby you are educating people about somebody calls it a unique solution to a common problem and they know that you're there, you're doing that constantly. You are also targeting specific accounts with regards to that, which is why our work at Listen Network is all about how good can the business class data be, how good can the engagement or consumption of that content be? So that way the businesses can say yes. I think there's top of mind there. There is that. We've seen clients to what you said at Content analyze the other company where they use, they're using account based podcasting as uh, a means to hasting their sales pipeline. So they, we don't do guest schedling for them. They've got their guests and their guests are in the CRM and so they interview those guests, they move them forward. Like you said, it's almost in the imagining of what you said. You know, move them forward by a couple of months, cut it into 12 and actually make that road to revenue faster. Uh, I would say from an accountability perspective, those are not too bad to look at. They are not necessarily pixel metrics, as it were, but they are tangible enough to, you know, make leaders, marketing leaders or business leaders happy. So thanks so much for breaking it down. And of course, you know, uh, beyond the scope of this episode, we could really dive deep into other funnel steps through which account based marketing can really work. But I think if you were, uh, looking for a good starting point, Mason just gave it to you. Mason. Mr. ABM, if you're watching, you probably see that. So guys, this is how we do it on the podcast, especially on my side. And I'll say this selfishly, you know, in preparing for this episode, we have to find uncommon angles to common questions because Mason is very popular. Like I said, he's everywhere so how do we make this amazing episodes stand out out of all the different amazing episodes out there? And, uh, that is what we strive to do on this podcast. Please just share. I know in the past we often ask people to review, even we will read some reviews. But it's starting to get to me that while sharing is not, again, a pixel attribution metric for my podcast, it's what actually makes it at the end of the day, go viral because you give it to some other human being who gives to some other human being. And it goes on, and it goes on. But if you are kind enough to take it a step further, then you can, like, you can review, you can even comment, whatever it is, you know, just. We just need as much love to keep this going because we've been recording a lot of episodes so far. I have one more question for Mason, but before then is the dots rapid fire. And, um, before then is a quick break from our sponsor, and then when we come back, we'll see how scrappy Mason can get to avoid the fire, so to speak. We'll be right back. Stay tuned.

Speaker B: This episode is brought to you by Listen Network, where podcasts meet their potential. If you're a brand needing podcast episode promotion or podcast follower promotion, Listen Network is here to give you the best in class analytics, podcast growth, attribution, and podcast promotion success. Find out more more@www.listen network.co.

Speaker C: welcome back, guys. Like I said, it's a D rapid fire. It's three questions. Uh, we call it the Marketing Court of law or the Marketing Hunt Kitchen, depending on the poison. You want to pick, you say the truth and nothing but the truth. Are you ready, Mason?

Speaker A: As ready as I will ever be. I like that.

Speaker C: I like that. First question, what is your favorite marketing metric? And I don't want to hear sales or revenue.

Speaker A: Then if it's not revenue, it would be impressions. Because again, like I just mentioned, people can't buy from us if they don't know that we exist. So I'm like an abmer at heart, but I also. Sorry, uh, I'm an abmer in my brain, but my heart. I'm a brand marketer.

Speaker C: Ah.

Speaker A: Uh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker C: Uh, makes sense. Makes sense that you are the first person, maybe one of the few people that mentioned impressions. What do you tell those people that say impressions on the vanity metric? Impressions and vanity metric.

Speaker A: Great. Don't think about it because that means that more people actually have eyes on me, which is what I need.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're completely right. Media is going to, I think there's going to be a purge of media going forward. And as uh, that purge happens, you know, we have people getting more engaged, but the attention span becomes way more competitive depending on how, for example text loses share to video or audio. Right. And at that point you are looking at, you know, how much eyeballs or um, eardrums is coming to your content. I, I want to be honest here. There are levels of impressions that I follow. There are levels of impressions that I like as a whole new metric. I think from, from the way people use it, it's make it made me dislike it a lot. But I think there are um, different other ways that we've seen, you know, with our work and listen network on how you can really use that to lead to other KPIs like engagements like conversions and things like that. So, so that makes a lot of sense. Second question, how long do you use social media every day?

Speaker A: Probably too long if we're being honest.

Speaker C: How too long? Because we've got some benchmarks, so we'll see.

Speaker A: I have, I have personal, ah, social media. So my wife and I have a perfectly curated TikTok algorithm for both of us that is just our style of humor. So I probably collectively with my wife spend about an hour on TikTok just sending stuff back and forth throughout the day. And then for my professional life it's probably like active time on LinkedIn, I would say 30 minutes in the morning, I make a post, I comment, I um, connect, I do all that kind of stuff, but it's always open. So like if there's too many notifications that starts to stack up, I will go in and engage on LinkedIn. So I probably actually spend like way too long on LinkedIn. We'll just like aggregate it out to be like an hour and a half to two hours.

Speaker C: Well, two hours. So most, the most common is one hour. We get some decent two hours as well. We get some four hours too. Not as much as the two hours, but yeah, it's uh, for an ABM person, I don't expect anything, especially on the business side. I like you. You just have to be there, right? There is social listening at a. I do one hour. I think I need to do more because social listening is crazily important. Let me tell you a quick story before last question. I. Yesterday, again we are recording this sometime in January 2024. Yesterday I was at a podcast conference. Somebody posted I shouldn't be there. I'm busy. You know, I was doing that. I was Working. Somebody posted something about I need help with podcast SEO and drop this or email. That wasn't supposed to happen. So the admin took out the comment. But before the comment was taken out, I quickly copied and pasted and messaged that person. And now we have a meeting. So social listening, especially the very manual one. I mean, I'm thinking of other automated ways to do it. It's something that ABM folks are like, you know, it's, it's just the strongest suite, uh, whether they do it themselves or they help their clients to do it. And it doesn't matter how long you spend online at that point, as long as there's revenue and food on the table, I don't think anyone will really mind. Okay, last question. What is your favorite marketing quote?

Speaker A: If your customers don't understand what you offer, they will never buy. It's like something, it's way more kitschy, it's way more succinct. But like, essentially that's the B2B version of like clear is kind. So I just think again, it's so funny on LinkedIn you have the B2B word, uh, salad of like most innovative, revolutionary B2B SaaS platform that dramatically increases your revenue and decreases your, your headcount and it's going to save all of your children and it's going to cure cancer. It's like, I don't know what you do. So yeah, just like being really clear and really concise is probably my favorite marketing quote.

Speaker C: I love that. Again, not the episode point, but I love to rant. Even when you're uh, looking at people, you know, running ads on ABM software or running ads on attribution software. Like if you layer all the ads in a search results page, it's almost everybody's in almost the same copy. I don't know, I think we can do better, uh, in that front and just go scrappy. You know, when you are scrappy, you are innovative. That was what my advisor at Listen Network said. When you don't have money and uh, you're just like going, doing everything, you get creative. So let's go scrappy with the way we communicate our unique value proposition if we really want to stand out. And uh, let's not copy competitors because we think it has worked for them even though we don't have access to their uh, CRM or QuickBooks or Google Analytics to, to be sure of that. So I, I, I like that.

Speaker A: I like that.

Speaker C: I think that's a very good quote. Okay, before I let you go I worry about something else with things like AI or technology and uh, so on and so forth. We affect account based marketing and you know, I know you've got a very high moral standard as well. Uh, I will probably call you Pastor Macy if I have to. What are some of the ethical considerations for businesses when utilizing some of these tools? How do we make sure we don't get into the realm of abuse when it comes to technology in abm?

Speaker A: I'll be very, very transparent of like I, there's more and more people asking the ethical questions around AI and I don't even know enough. The only things I know from like an ethical consideration, I think I don't remember exactly who it was, but somebody has a paywall on the content that they produce from a research perspective and, and somehow ChatGPT has actually gotten that information and it's citing it without anyone ever having paid for it. So like I know that there's a lawsuit happening from a, uh, from an OpenAI perspective against that research firm. So like that's from an ethical consideration.

Speaker C: But what about tech in general? You can also look at how, how should we make sure to prevent abuse when it comes to using tech in general for abm?

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean again, I don't see anything necessarily ethically incorrect with the technology in and of itself. It is largely how the people then use the technology. So again, if you are going to build out this massive account list and just spam people, I don't know that that is the best approach. But also I think from an, if we're thinking about that from an ethical perspective, something that dramatically damages your brand and people will know that and as a result it, it just comes back to bite you in the long term. So I'm actually not super concerned about the ethical ramifications of most people, most things that people are doing because if they are acting unethically, that generally comes back to bite them anyway. So from my perspective, use the strategy that you have built out to be actually helpful and appropriate and targeted. Because again, if you're being incredibly targeted with your outbound, with your messaging, with your content, it then it creates an environment in which you have to be super concerned about the ethics in full transparency. It's just not something that I have thought about because the strategies that we build for our clients, it's just not even a consideration. It's like you're going to be kind, you're going to be intentional. So if you're kind and intentional and you don't just spam and blast People, you should be fine. So I view it less from an ethical perspective. I actually view it as very much so, a helpful additive perspective. Quick example from a client that we're about to start working with is they have, they offer licensing or license free music to like hotels and restaurants. And I mean it's a huge consideration as you are looking at again building up a public venue and a business. If you are just using Spotify on your phone for the music, you could very well get sued. So again, this service ensures that they don't get sued. Pretty helpful. They have an AI tool that based on the description of their business can actually generate a playlist that matches the look and or the feel that the business would want to have. So again we're actually doing one to one outbound using that AI tool and creating personalized customized playlists for those restaurants and for those venues and they get a 14 day free access to that playlist. So again they can actually use that playlist in their place of work. And see does this increase the, the atmosphere that I am trying to create and trying to push forward. So I actually view that in that context AI, ABM type approach, very one to one and a great value add to the recipient. So I don't think that's unethical. I think that's very ethical as a way of actually using the technologies.

Speaker C: Yeah, you're right, you're right. I of course, like I said, you know, it's what you say to those who don't see, for example tam, right? You go to a Zoom info or Apollo, you get your audiences or whatever it is, you see the magic it does and you're like, yeah, like absolute power corrupts absolutely. Let me, you know, just abuse this thing as much as I can and get into people's faces. Forgetting the fact that consumer customer behavior is changing already. People are becoming wiser, people are becoming more cynical, customers are starting to become their own AES in quote and educating themselves and doing all those kinds of things and would not, you know, sit well with some of those approaches that people do these days, you know. So guys, if you're listening, I think you said something there missing which I like, which is if you are not ethical, it's going to bite you at the end of the day. And you will see that very early on with a lot of rejections in your ABM processes. Massive failure in that. No, you know, even if you manage to get a meeting, there's no conversion because it's just, you know, it's not the right approach. You're just trying to make it as a means to an end. And there's no patience in there. Knowing that B2B is 18 months, 12 months, there's no help. I like the fact that the company you're about to work with is offering a product for 14 days without even knowing if this, if this person will ever become a paid customer. So it's, it's just paying it forward and wetting the ground, as it were. So you're listening if you're watching. Be helpful as much as possible. B2B can be a very stressful, highly customized, one to one process. Where in B2B the customer is right, that quote is just so pronounced and if you put it that way. So just be helpful as much as possible and be able to use the technology to make your life better. I know we can really, really go on and on here about abm, but hopefully I was able to give you a couple of good questions. I think I heard that a couple of times, which is always good for us whenever we hear good questions. That's because no one has ever asked you before, which is awesome. So again, for those who don't know you in the ABM space, or uh, for people who are in the D2C trying to cross to B2B, where can they find you? Where can they learn more about all this, uh, wisdom?

Speaker A: One wisdom is a very, very kind way of framing it. So if you want to hear me ramble on nonsensically about account based marketing in a continued way, I have my own podcast called Scrappy abm. And essentially if you just Google Scrappy abm, my dumb face will show up everywhere. It will be on LinkedIn. Uh, so if you again go check out Scrappy ABM or just type in Mason Cosby on LinkedIn, I should pop up there. And then the third and final place is the website. So there is a scrappyabm.com uh, there you can find out about some services, schedule a call. And also if you want to find the podcast, you want to find LinkedIn or the third option in the menu is a, uh, a newsletter. So if you really love the podcast and you never want to miss a single episode, I've got a newsletter that sends out the podcast episodes every single week. So those are all the places you can find me. And I do want to leave you. I did Google it. I did find the quote. Uh, the quote that is way more succinct is if you confuse, you lose. So yeah, I like that because if

Speaker C: you're watching this episode right now you will see the copy on Mason's website. Account based podcasting for revenue teams without a 200 case tech stack. Like so specific. And then you just went on again built for reputable revenue driven ABM program in just six months. So specific, so clear. That's. I guess that's what you're trying to say, isn't it?

Speaker A: Yes. It's not fancy, it's not a bunch of jargon. Granted, um, depending on who you are, ABM might be jargon. So there is a little bit of industry language there. But that's company name. So if you don't know what ABM is and you're likely not a good fit on the first place. So sorry to be that blunt about it but like it's kind of the, the truth of the matter. So again, if you have the context of knowing what ABM is, then the language there's is very clear, it's very specific, it's very tangible.

Speaker C: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense there.

Speaker A: Guys.

Speaker C: This is what we do on the podcast and it's the end of this one. There are more podcasts like this. We've had great guests, you know, top tier. I have had the grace to be exposed to so much wisdom with marketing leaders. Please go to my website, sl marketing.com if you want to get all the other episodes. And if you don't like the website, just search Marketing Leadership. That keyword, uh there on Apple, Spotify and YouTube. Make sure you subscribe and follow the rest of the episode. I'd like to thank Contental Life, Listen Network and Descript for their support. Till next time, connect the dots.

Speaker B: Thank you for listening to the Marketing Leadership podcast brought to you by Listen Network. There will be links to resources mentioned in today's show notes. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a five star review and be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode.