Jessica Rhodes — Grow Your Podcast with Predictable Podcast Guesting Strategies

Having an interview based podcast is a perfect strategy if your goal is to grow your network and grow your audience. Alternatively, I think a solo podcast is perfect if you already have the size audience that you want, but they need to be nurtured. Welcome to the Marketing Leadership Podcast brought to you by Listen Network. Join your host, Dot Oyobulu, as He learns from CMOs, agency leaders and and business leaders about the state of performance marketing. Plus insights on strategies, campaigns and intelligence for commercial impact. Connect the dots and enjoy the latest episode. Hi marketers, this is Dot, and welcome to the Marketing Leadership Podcast. With me here is Jessica Rhodes, founder at Interview Connections. We will be discussing how to grow your podcast with a predictable podcast guesting strategy. I know you guys are ready, so let's do it. Hey, Jessica, welcome. The interviewer is being interviewed. How does that look like? Thank you for having me. I'm super excited. Absolutely. So before we dive into the topic, for those who don't know you, can you tell us a bit about yourself, your background, why going into the guest scheduling industry and, you know, all the traction that you've achieved so far? Yes, absolutely. So, as you said, I'm the founder of Interview Connections. We are the world's first ever and leading podcast booking agency. We've been around since 2013. In the last 10 years, we've booked over 30,000 podcast interviews for over 800 clients. And we help service based entrepreneurs, coaches, consultants, subject matter experts. We grow and amplify their authority online through being a guest on podcast. So it is such an incredible transformational business growth strategy. It's also perfect for podcasters to grow their audience. So that's just a little bit of a taste of our background and what we've done over the last 10 years. On a personal note, I'm a mom. I've got two young kids. I've got backyard chickens. Um, so that's, that's what I spend my time on when I'm not working on podcast guesting. Makes sense. And of course you're going to be looking, you know, into, into this in detail, but, you know, some great, great, great momentum you have there. I, I think the first thing that often happens with podcast guesting, and I like to stick to that term, is a customer comes to you and say, I need you to help me find guests for my podcast. What are some of those questions you ask them in order to determine the right guest segment, if you want to use that? The reason I'm asking is because people are looking at executing podcasting to attack a certain Part of their marketing funnel. People are doing this mostly for top funnel. People are using this as an ABM tool where they are trying to get SQLs for mid funnel. And we've seen those, well, just interviewing their customers, you know, so that's. There's not much guest scheduling that is needed at that point. And if, you know, you have people who are in the thought leadership space, like you and I, we are also looking at getting a special type of guests with different qualities, with different values, you know, and so on and so forth. How do you help people determine that so it's all able to align with their marketing goals? Yeah. So I mean, the first thing is making sure there's clarity and a clear understanding for what is the goal of the podcast? Like, why are you podcasting? What is the purpose? How is this pot, like, how do you want your podcast to help grow your business? And once you're clear on that, the question is, okay, so let's say you want to, you know, get more SQLs, more MQLs, you want more quality leads into the top of your funnel. So if the number one strategy is guests, then who is your ideal client? What defines an SQL for you in your business? And so identifying guest experts that would fit that description. So that every single podcast interview you're doing is a deep dive conversation where you're able to build a relationship, build trust with somebody, build who's your ideal client. So really understanding who your ideal client is, if that's the goal of your show, is to build relationships with ideal potential clients, then knowing who that person is and then identifying them as potential guest is perfect. And then also if your goal is to be growing an audience of ideal clients, the flip side, interviewing your customers could be a great strategy because then you have all of these episodes with, with people who already know like, and trust you have already experienced success from your service or your product. So then when people listen to that episode, they can really see themselves in the shoes of your customers and then be more likely to take your call to action and reach out to work with you. That makes sense that all you. Your reply now sparked the different off scripts question. And this is me putting you on the rapid fire even before the rapid fire session is up. So, so sorry, solo podcasts, solo episodes have. Is that something you've ever thought about? Have you ever thought about why do people do solo podcasts? Why do people do solo episodes? And have you been able to compartmentalize that thought to say, yeah, maybe this is why? If you are, if you're looking to achieve this and this and this solo episode is for you. But if you are willing to achieve this, this and this and this, then you need to interview a guest, not basically speak yourself. Yeah. Solo podcasts take a very specific skill set. You need to be able to deliver an episode that is entertaining, engaging and valuable without the help of another person to be conversing with. So it's, it's difficult to do a solo podcast. That being said, it is the right type of format for certain business owners, for certain podcasters. And because having an interview based podcast is a perfect strategy if your goal is to grow your network and grow your audience. Alternatively, I think a solo podcast is perfect if you already have the size audience that you want, but they need to be nurtured and they need to hear from you more. Then having a solo podcast where it's just you delivering content, that could be a great strategy to nurture and engage the people that are already in your audience. Yeah, I can't do it, Jessica. Like, am I going to do it a little bit for nine years and I played around with some solo episodes, but I need the energy of another person because it just kind of bored me. Like, I can deliver content for 15 minutes on a solo episode, but it just wasn't as fun. Yeah, it's, it's the phone. Like, are you, when you, when you were doing it then were you like laughing at your own jokes? You get what I mean? Like the joke beat for me. It's just gonna be very hard. Jokes is very, very key to the dots Loves marketing leadership podcast. And you know, laughing at yourself is going to be very weird. But that just came to mind now and I thought, yeah, maybe I should ask you about that. Yeah. This is not a silver bullet podcast. We are not saying don't do solo episode. And I think that is reflective of what Jessica just said. But it all depends on if you have the capability to do it. It all depends on the, the goal. It depends on the fact that if you've already, if you already have an audience, you know, if Joe Rogan decides, I'm no longer doing, I'm no longer interviewing other people, I want to do a solo podcast. He's got his clout. Taylor Swift. Even if she never had a podcast before because, but if she's popular from a Times Magazine perspective, she can do a solo podcast. And because she still love Swift, we all follow and listen to her, you know, even if it's boring. So I think it's based on those scenarios in which Those things can work. But if you are getting to a point whereby, especially in the thought leadership world, where you are looking at a second opinion, which is why we encourage disagreements here on this podcast. That way we have different perspectives to a certain subject, different opinions to a certain subject. You know, I'm a man of faith and you know, the good book says in. In the midst of two or three witnesses, the truth will be established in the midst of one, but in the midst of two or three, you know, then it makes sense, and then you're able to have a robust conversation with regards to that topic. Okay, this is getting interesting already. So I love it. On to the next question. Something I've been thinking about since I got into the space. Prep calls. So you found this guy or lady they have accepted and now it's time to get to the episode where you're able to do your hand off. Prep calls is something that is like standard these days. You want to meet for the person. For some people go as far as an hour to discuss the topic and then pick another date to, you know, make the interview. Some would create a document where they have a list of those questions, and then there's a back and forth between the guest and the host asynchronously on the quality of that. I personally, I work on the brief. There's a back and forth between the guest and the host in my case, but I eliminate the prep call as a separate event. I add the prep call to the interview date itself. And the reason for me is simple. We are all very busy people. You know, if you have Jessica booking guests for you, that means you have to do prep calls for each person she brings and you do another call. If you don't have a pa, that's probably even impossible to manage, you know, and that's my perspective, but it's still the most common, you know, content allies. We use video, people do prep calls. But my question to you is that in all of this mix, where do you find the sweet spot? Where do you see a place whereby people are able to adequately prepare for an episode at scale without too much stress, and you can still get the best out of, out of the recording at the end of the day. I love that you brought this up because in light of topics that are may be controversial or not, everyone agrees on it. I think prep calls, pre calls, whatever you want to call them. This is the great divide of podcast interviewing. This is where people either love them or hate them, or they do find a middle ground. Um, and I'm Actually, it's so the timing of this is so funny because I'm doing a training and I have a Facebook group called Guest Expert Profit Lab, and I do weekly live trainings. And today I'm talking about pre calls. So this is the topic I'm talking about and it is very common. And my perspective on this is the reason it is. Is so much more common is because there's a huge demand for wanting to be a guest. A lot of people want to be a guest. More people want to be a guest than host their own show. So podcast hosts have lots of people saying, hey, I want to be on your show. Can I be on your show? They're getting pitched all the time. And so for them to really filter out the guests that are serious and are actually going to show up and do a great job, they're going to do pre calls. That's my perspective of why more hosts are doing them. Because then there's, then there's the guests that say, I don't have time for this. And I think that's the host's way of saying, great. If you don't have time to do a pre call, we're not going to do the interview because I only want people that are going to take that time. What you're saying is it does take a lot of time. That's real. When you're doing 8, 10, 12 interviews a month, however many you're recording. I heard you do like 200 episodes since April or something. In fact, in January. So this has been recorded in February of 2023. In January, we recorded just January. We recorded 36 episodes, which I saw it. I. I basically jumped out of my seat. It's insane. Like, there's no way you could do a separate recall. I'm a. What's it called? I'm an isolated kiss. Yeah, like, not, not everyone is recording almost 40 episodes a month. But, you know, there's no way you could do a separate call with every single guys. Like, there's simply not enough time in the day. But when I talk to, you know, and it's the host that, that leads that, like, as a host, you decide how you're going to run your show and are you going to do a pre call? I'm with you. I like having the pre call just at the same time slot. It just feels a little bit more streamlined. But for podcast hosts that are not doing 36 interviews a month, maybe they're doing four interviews a month and they really want to have like, they want. It's Important them to build that rapport, to break that ice, to really feel like the first time I'm talking to the person isn't when we're actually recording the interview. I do think there's a lot to be said for that. So you know what I teach. We. We book people as a guest on podcast and I always just teach my clients, you have to be agile enough to do what each host wants to do because every host is going to run their show a little bit differently. And so you need to adapt to how they do things. But it's important to see all sides and understand why someone wouldn't do a pre call, why they would. Why they would just bulk it on. I. There's only one interview in 10 years that I just got on and there wasn't even time to chit chat. Like I got on. This was back when people are using Skype and they just started recording and I was like, oh, we. Okay, we are going like that was it. So, yeah, I think it's important for everyone to just understand the purpose of doing them, not doing them, doing them something in the middle because it's all in an effort to have a better show. Interesting. I like, I like your. I like the perspective there. And again, it depends on where you are. In some cases you have know we've had guests on this podcast that the appear are like, this Guy has got 25 minutes. There's not going to be prep calls. I'm like, okay, no problem. You know, so at, at when you, when you get those scenarios, then you have to maybe work on some sort of a brief document to at least give them an idea. They don't want to like memorize the answers and things like that. So that's okay. But if there are a lot more guests that have more time to be able to do prep calls and we. I've also realized I haven't done this many episodes that there are a few guests that are a bit apprehensive about being on the show. Oh my. I don't want to be on the show, but I have to be on the show because it starts. Okay, so what is this? What is that? You know, they're asking a million questions at a time and they're like, yeah, I'm still not satisfied. We need to have a prep call. Sure, sure, sure, sure, let's do this. You know, just to give them confidence in saying it's not crazy. We are not on CNN or anything like that. So there's also that as well. Even in my case. So Maybe out of 180 episodes I've prepped for five, and those were some of the things, but for the rest is just sharing that document in advance and having some back and forth in with that once they satisfy. When there's satisfaction in that, we go through it. There are maybe 10 guests out of 180 that are like, yeah, it's okay. I. You just ask me the questions. I'm sure I should be able to figure out the answer. I don't want to look at anything. Which is an interesting way to, to even look at it as well. It's. It's different cases for different people. But guess what, guys, if you're listening or watching, I'm about to ask another it depends question. So it's. Now the, the logistics around guest scheduling, I think they are different a little bit based on the podcasting nature itself. Whether it's a live show or a prerecorded like this one, whether it's a virtual or an in person like this one, people want to know the kind of fraction that you've made. So in my case, I'm in a tricky situation because right now the numbers are very low because they are just about 35 episodes out there. You get what I mean? So it's different cases, it's different expectations. The pitch might even be different. What get stand to gain to be on your podcast is also different as well. So, for example, we'll take this episode and we'll translate it into a, you know, article and video clips and we'll just, we'll just try to, you know, mold it into different formats that may be a benefit to another guest, although we'll get back to how the guest can actually help the host. But my point is, in scheduling, you need to think about some of these things. How do you navigate them without burning out? Let me put it that way. Yeah. So is your question about like getting guests to want to be on your show when it's newer or what's the, what's the crux of the question? Yeah, just all these different scenarios that I described. Yeah. How do you navigate those different scenarios when you are finding guests? Do you have like a system? Do you have like a strategy, a checklist that's, you know, allows the host to provide you this information and then you can use that information to reach out to the guest. They need to know if it's virtual or not. They need to know if it's going to take 20 minutes or two hours, like the Iced Coffee podcast. They need to know all These nuances, How do you gather the information around those nuances and prepare a pitch customized for that host? Basically? Yeah. Well, I think it's just important to, like, when we're finding guests, for a host, having a one pager that explains everything about the show so that the guest doesn't have any question marks. Because I know, like, if someone's asking me to be a guest on their show because there's so many, especially if I don't know the person, or if there's not trust already there, I'm, as a potential guest, trying to sniff out, like, okay, why do they want to have me on the show? Are there. Is there, like a hidden gotcha moment? Because sometimes people invite you to do something, and then they're like, and we need you to do all this stuff, or. And we need you to email your list or. And it's $200. Like, you know, so being. Exactly. Is it going to. Am I going to be charged to be a guest on your show? I get that a lot. And I'm like, I didn't know that was a thing, but I'm not interested in. In charging any guests here. We'll just guess. Exactly. And that's the thing. Like, hosts are charging guests, and I get that. If, if the pitch is coming to you, like, if a guest comes to you and you're like, I don't interview people unless they pay, like, whatever, do your thing. It's your choice, not my preference. But yeah, if you as a show are reaching out and trying to get people to be on your show, be as transparent as possible and everything that that guest needs to know about the interview, which your team did an excellent job at. Because when I got the email, it was like, all the information was there, and it was really easy, and it was just like, great schedule, and it was just beautiful. Chef's kiss. So having all of that information available so it's completely transparent, personalizing the pitch, the request, so that the guest knows, like, why you were asked to be on the show? Because if they. They. If there is a. A worry that, like, the show's a little bit newer, are people going to want to say yes once? If somebody can personalize that pitch, that request rather, and really show, like, why they were asked, and it's flattering, and it's like, hey, and we're going to do all this. We're going to edit together clips. It's going to be great. We'd love to have you on. And I find that the. The request is a lot easier and we'll get a lot more yeses. Makes sense. Guys, if you're listening, you can literally take all the information on this episode and start a podcasting company or a podcasting department because it's the nuances around again a bit more advanced than what you may already know but simple enough to make your podcast in general successful. Because if you're running a non solo podcast, whether it's narrative or otherwise, the guests are at the core of it. You know they must it not necessarily them being like the top 10 people in the world, but being able to provide the best value in the world for that topic that are discussing. So all I'm asking when it comes to this episode is please share share with anyone who is thinking about doing podcasting, who is thinking about being a guest on other podcast and may have some we call as we call it code fit with regards to that and that might just help that person. Of course you might, you know, with regard to the episode you might like review, comment or whatever. But like I've started to say, I will continue to say sharing is really what helps us out as we continue to release a lot of episodes out there. I have one more question for Jessica, but before then it's going to be the dots rapid fire. And before then it's a quick break from our sponsor and then we will be right back. We'll resume. Don't go anywhere. The best question is for the last. This episode is brought to you by Listen Network where podcasts meet their potential. If you're a brand needing podcast episode promotion or podcast follower promotion, Listen Network is here to give you the best in class analytics, podcast growth attribution and podcast promotion success. Find out more more at www.listernetwork.co. welcome back guys. So like I said, it's the DOS Rapid Fire. We call it the marketing Hot kitchen or the marketing court of law. Are you ready, Jessica? Ready as I'll ever be. You're born ready. That's good. Okay, so the first question is what is your favorite marketing metric apart from sales or revenue? Oh my God, this is such a good question. So my favorite marketing metric are. Well number one consults completed because it's all about how many consoles are getting completed. I'm like, can I give you multiple answers? I'll just stick with that number of SQLs because we track how many SQLs high and medium priorities. So high priority SQLs registering for our launches. That's my favorite. Yeah, SQL is great. Podcasting contributes to a lot of that. B2B D2C. Yeah, it contributes to a lot of SQL. So that's something that I think many businesses need to leverage as much as possible. Okay, question two on the rapid fire. How long do you use social media every day for work? Well, I spend probably about 30 minutes a day actively using it for marketing in terms of posting and engaging and managing the Facebook group and things like that. How often am I checking it? A lot more than that. But let's say 30 minutes. Oh, 30 minutes is impressive by the way. You know when you ask people they're like too long and then they say 30 minutes. You know, the most common is one hour. So far the most common. And I fall into that bracket then because if you two hours, we've got a tiny four and eight hours. You know, sales oriented people, they are just online every day. I would say yeah, it goes up. It depends if I'm doing social selling work because we message with a lot of our leads on LinkedIn and Instagram. So if you add that into it and it's a heavy day of social selling, then it's going to be several hours. But if it's just like posting, getting content out there, I can cap it at 30 minutes and then longer if there's sales work. But yeah, I just got into social selling as well, but I don't handle that personally. We just sort of set up and I'm mentioning them because I, I went through 10 tools, you know, and I, and I landed on our. But I'm sure she'll still have to take a couple of hours sifting through the post. Which one should can I add value to? So yeah, that, that makes a lot of sense. Okay, last question. What is your favorite marketing quote? Always be closing. Always be closing. And the reason that's my favorite. Yeah, always be closing is because I see a lot of times the mistake that entrepreneurs make in their marketing is they're afraid to make the ask, they're afraid to be too salesy and so they put out a ton of valuable content or they make a pot, they have a podcast and it's all value. And, and I listen and I'm like, what you selling? What you sell in like you're not closing. So marketing is great, content is great. But if you are not making the ask and you are not giving a call to action to close and convert, then you are missing the point of marketing. So I think it's so important to abc, always be converting, always be closing all the time. Some demand generation proponents will be coming for your head. So, so what do you tell them then what do you tell them in terms of. Go ahead. I'm not saying to be closing and selling 100% of the time. And I think that's the important caveat. You know, the 80, 20 rule, 80% value, 20% promo. I'm not saying you need to be promo 100% of the time, but if you're 80% of the time value, but there's no call to action, like, I'll put out 80% of my posts and content is valuable, but at the end, I'm going to say, hey, if you want more of this, come to our free masterclass. That I don't see that as promo selling, but it is a way to make sure that people that get value from your content know what to do next if they want more of it. So that's what I mean by abc and why that's my favorite is because if you're not converting, you're not closing, you're not giving a call to action, then people are like, that was nice. And that was it. They move on. That was it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get what you mean there. I get what you mean. And, and we've got a couple of guests that share a similar sentiment too. So that, that makes a lot of sense. Okay, Like I said, guys, if you're watching or listening, the best question for the last, hopefully are able to stay true to that in reality. But yeah, now we've talked about how hosts of podcasts can add value to guests. How can guests add value to hosts? Right. You're talking about building a network, talking about, you know, being a great resource, but what are some of the things that you've seen guests do for the host on their podcast? A very quick example is basically taking whatever they've recorded for you and posting it on your own platform and thanking them for it so people can go to their podcast and listen more. What you were mentioning about your quotes, the ask, right? You know, a few weeks later you say, you know, I've been doing this. I looked at my guest. I thought you may be one of those people who have almost 100 match. Is this something you're interested in or no, understand? And that could also lead to a few other things from a relationship side as well. What are some of the things that you've seen, you know, host benefits from when it comes to how they engage with their guests? And maybe you've been able to use some of those things in your outreach to say, this host has had this level of benefits from the guest and here's an opportunity for you as a new guest to do the same for him as well. For me, it could be giving back, it could be more than that if it becomes like a business relationship. But, yeah, you get the idea. Yeah. So totally agree with everything you're saying. In terms of sharing the episode, I think that's probably the biggest thing that hosts want and get value from is you sharing the episode, helping it get more leverage. It is a two way street because we'll have guests that are like, well, how big is their audience? I'm like, that's up to you to help determine are you going to help bring listeners to that show? And I love, you know, with podcasts, it's difficult because you can't really see the downloads. But I was interviewed on a podcast and you know, he had a lot of, he posted the video on YouTube and I shared that interview because it was a great episode, it was a great interview. And so I'm sharing it, I'm linking to it, I'm posting it a lot. I emailed it to my list and I can see out of all of his interviews, mine had like four times the number of viewers than most of his other episodes. And I know that's because I shared it. And I know that's because I emailed my list and I told people to go watch it. And I, I posted it a lot. I edited clips and posted them. So the more you can share it, that's a huge value add. But, you know, I want to share something that's probably, it feels a little less tactical and like an action step, but just be really genuine with hosts. Like, a lot of people are going through podcasting and being a guest and interviewing people. Like, it's like a conveyor belt. Like, got to do this interview, got to do this interview, got to go on to the show. But, like, just slow down and really get to know the host. Because whether you're a host or a guest, the people that you interview with that you remember the most are the ones that you just had a genuine connection with and they were present. So just be present with the host. Get to know them, ask them about who they are, what are their interests, what do they do in their business. Why do, why did you start your show? Like, see them as more than just somebody that's interviewing you and giving you a spotlight. But, like, see them and just through that genuine connection, there will be organic ways that you can support them that aren't just, I'm going to go post and review the show, like do that, but also slow down to really see, like, how could you bring value to them by, you know, and first you got to get to know somebody to know what the answer to that is. Yeah, and I do that. When I started, it didn't go so well, but it got more comfortable, you know, where I just have this five, ten minutes. I just go non stop about who I am. We are Nigerians, so we are very confident. Even when we are portraying the wrong thing, we display confidence. So I don't care, basically. But you sort of agree on people. It grew on guests. You do that with guests, you know, then they start to become very soft. It sets a very nice tone for the interview in general. And, you know, there's a. There's a good flow of communication between the guests and the host during the interview, which could of course be achieved through a prep call, you know, if you want to have like a separate prep call. So, yeah, it's. It's been a great thing for me. You are interviewing big names. You want to leave as much impression as possible. Of course, I hope my episode here becomes the record in terms of the most popular because of your marketing of it in future. But even beyond that, just guest to host relationship, working relationship, I think it's being able to do as much as possible to leave a very good impression. Authenticity sits right at the, at the seat of that. It's been probably one of the most important, if I would call it ingredients to my podcasting soup. And being able to do that at scale again, I feel incredibly lucky to get that done. So that makes a lot of sense there. I know we could go on and on here, but so much wisdom on this episode. And when I was working on this, I thought it's interesting to see that you can expand on a, on a. On a normal specific topic like guest scheduling and be able to look at some advanced or uncommon things around that. So thank you so much for, for sharing. Where can people learn more from you about this? Where can marketing units starting podcast and trying to figure out how to get guests, where can they follow you and learn more? Yeah, so my website is Interview Connections, so I recommend just heading to interviewconnections.com we've got tons of resources on there, opportunities to, you know, listen to our podcast and check us out. So interviewconnections.com is where I'd recommend going. All right. Appropriately named as well, interviewconnections.com so sometimes it may not even be podcast. It may be a CNN interview. I like that this is the ability to expand and outgrow podcast scheduling. So, so, so that's really cute. Okay, cool. So guys, this is how we do it here on podcast. You want to see more of this? Just go to dotslovesmarketing.com you can also go to the Marketing Leadership Podcast on Apple, Spotify and YouTube. Just use the search bar on your favorite listening platform there. I would like to thank Deskriek, Listen Network and Content Allies for their support. Till next time guys, connect the dots. Thank you for listening to the Marketing Leadership Podcast brought to you by Listen Network. 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