Tonya Lawson on How Solopreneurs Can Build AI Visibility Without More Tools

speaker-0: If a new client came to me and I said, Okay, you've got to have a podcast, you've got to have a YouTube channel, you need to be guessing, you need their their eyes are gonna glaze over and they're gonna quit. Yeah. So you start with where you're interested. Where are you good?

Are you really good on camera? Awesome. Let's get you on YouTube. Maybe you're better at writing.

Good. Let's get you over on Substack. Or let's get you on your own blog. All of these are possibilities.

And you start with one, and as that's going, then you implement the next. And as you're doing it, you document the systems that help each run smoothly so it all flows together naturally. speaker-1: Hey guys, what's up? Jeremy here, the online ads guy, founder of Digital Glass Marketing.

If you are doing between 300k to two mil a year, this is what this channel or this podcast is made for. Welcome back to another episode of Marketing AI for SMEs. Today I've got to interview Tonya Lawson. ⁓ if you want to look her up, it's Tonya Lawson, Plan Like a Boss Podcast, Plan Like a Boss dot net.

you know, ⁓ she is I did her pod and she's definitely a really lovely lady. ⁓ just a business coach I would say for small businesses. And she was asking all these great questions say, hey man, let me go on ⁓ come on my pod, you know, let's do an episode. And then I got to ask some questions which I thought like she was more of like a mindset kind of coach, helping solarpreneurs.

That's what she's her market is. However, what I found out was something very different, man. She is formidable. She's super practical and really gets down Like she's not there to hold your hand in the emotional side of things, more like really practical stuff that she's learnt that she can apply, super goal oriented, ⁓ yeah, d completely different to what I expected.

And she doesn't mind disagreeing with me on a lot of things. She doesn't soft pedal it. ⁓ at the towards the end of the episode, she breaks down how what it's like working with her, how like what you go through. how frequent, ⁓ like just really transparent about everything.

I think it's a really good episode. I learned a lot just talking to her because she again seems like the pattern of these people that I'm inviting on. She's been a game for like over fifteen over fifteen, eighteen years, I think it was. So yeah, man, give it a listen.

I think you like it. Talk to you soon. Alright guys, welcome back to another episode. Today I'm with Tonya Lawson.

I'm being looking forward to this one because I have been on her show. ⁓ it's recorded and ⁓ she's really well prepared. ⁓ she's also somebody who is in the like the same ty targets, the same kind of customers that I do, I guess. The solopreneur, the smaller businesses, working a lot with it directly with the owner kind of thing.

So welcome to the show, Tonya. So Tonya Lawson is a multi passionate creative entrepreneur. speaker-0: Thank you, I'm so excited to be here. speaker-1: Business strategist and visibility mentor who steps who helps solopreneurs turn their ideas into sustainable system driven businesses.

With over 20 years of experience as a professional musician turned entrepreneur, Tonya has built multiple income streams through blogging, digital digital products, and online education, all rooted in smart planning and intentional visibility. After years of juggling too many to-dos and chasing every the next big thing, she discovered that true success comes from Planning and purpose and building visibility that compounds over time. Now through her podcast Plan Like a Boss, her membership Creative SEO and her signature planning workshops, Tonya empowers creative entrepreneurs to stop winning a start planning like a CEO and design a business that supports both their creativity and their life.

Well, that's really well written. I love it. Thank you. First question with your podcast, like where as I start to podcast and I find guests They kind of fall into a few different buckets of like when it comes to AI and SEO.

So a lot of it now, the people I'm talking to is they are fatigued with tools of SEO tools, apps, subscriptions. They're more like, ⁓ you should just build the fundamentals over first. Like get the fundamentals right. Wha what's your view and what's what's your kind of guess that you've been speaker-0: Okay, my view, I love AI.

I'm an early adopter. I was using Jasper when it was still Jarvis back in the day to to do some AI writing. And I think I'm not overloaded with tools because each tool that comes out provides something new. And I think we all need to experiment with what we're trying.

And honestly, they changed from day to day. Like last week, Gemini, Nano Banana, was the best for generating AI images. But now ChatGPT's image generator is doing a better job. ⁓ right now, Claude is better for writing copy to get a good first draft from.

But tomorrow it could be Chat GPT or Gemini. It's all about experimenting because these are all Constantly changing. We are in the midst of a new revolution. Think back to the invention of the personal computer or the cell phone.

The people who said we will never need cell phones. And look at what's happened. AI is the next big thing. And I think if you don't embrace it, you're gonna be left behind.

speaker-1: I I feel you. I think people are embracing it, but I feel like I I'm I'm I'm in your boat, right? I'm on your wagon. I like tools.

And I like experimenting with tools. I think when I I I like we we we subscribe, we want premium s subscription to all of ⁓ Like we spend so much money on tools 'cause me and my team want to test it to see we won't we won't b be on a cutting edge. I think for a small business who's not sitting around a desk Like w in the kind of field. I think it's hard for ⁓ and they kind of get fatigued and they're looking for ⁓ the convergence.

To land on one tool, one system, say alright, this is the one that's winning it. I just don't know how practical it is for them to go experiment. Wha what do you think about that? I speaker-0: Think it depends on what type of tool you're looking for.

So if you're looking for a basic CRM that has AI capabilities, I think you could probably settle in with one tool, learn it really well and stick with it. But if you really want to innovate, then you've got to be willing to experiment. And it doesn't mean you need to buy every tool out there. Just just buy a couple to start with.

See which one you like better. Maybe cancel one of those subscriptions and then test out another one. Anything in business, it's always about testing. See what works the best.

⁓ I'm I have a musician background. I'm a classically trained clarinetist. I have a doctorate in clarinet performance. Yeah.

⁓ it is somewhere in this office behind a bookshelf. But ⁓ you know, if for as a clarinet player, we have reads. Nobody settles with one read. You try the next new brand that comes out to see if they're better, see how they perform.

⁓ try synthetic versus cane. It's right. It's that same practicality. You have to try different things to see what's gonna work with you.

speaker-1: Okay, nice. Alright. So in your when it comes to your business and your coaching and your clients, this is something that you you help with as well. Like you how d like what's your approach to systems?

speaker-0: Okay, my approach to systems is find the system that is gonna work for you. So maybe you're a type of person who needs everything broken down into tiny incremental steps. That's great. Maybe you're a person who can have something that's a little more broad.

That's also great. You have to find the system that works for you. For some people, that is going to be an AI-powered system that's gonna walk you through all of your operations automatically, put People into buckets like opportunities, follow your pipelines. For some people I work with, that system is as simple as a piece of paper that has a checklist that they go through every time they do something.

speaker-1: Wow, okay, cool. That's interesting. Cause you know, we're solideneurs and I don't know how this is gonna come out, but I'm gonna just say what's on my mind. Like as a female coach, right?

Like just say that your clients are females and stuff as well. A lot of times from my ⁓ from what I see, it's kind of like the the support of the business but it's also support of like the the mental aspect of it, the mindset kind of c aspect of it, right? And Last week when I when we spoke, I always felt like a real practicality from you. Like ninety percent practical, right.

And it's is that is that how the mix is? Like I feel like female coach a lot of time it is mindset, it is ta kind of encouraging people to keep it moving. But you're you're like on the other side of the spectrum. You're like very practical.

speaker-0: Yeah. Yes. So I do I I've worked with women and men. I mean as a coach, I tend to bring a little I don't want to say masculine energy, but a little bit more of a let's check the boxes and let's get it done.

And if you want a coach that's gonna hold your hand and coddle you and take your money while you sit there stagnant, that is I'm not the coach for you and I'm not gonna want to work with you. I want to work with clients who are who are ready to start taking action right now. Now, if you need a good kick in the pants, I'll give you that too. But I'm no BS.

I'm not gonna tell you you can mindset your way into a million dollars. It's just not gonna speaker-1: I love it. Okay, so well that's very different to how most coaches approach it. So you don't you can't tell these things by looking, you know, by just looking at the appearance by by the thing.

You gotta really figure it out. Yeah, that that's really good. So right now your background well not right now, but your background was in ising AI and and SEO visibility, right? Yes.

So that has moved around a lot in the last, you know, ⁓ moved so much. 'Cause I remember when it first came out like three, four years ago the ⁓ the proper AI, Chat GPT and all that when it dropped, I was like, ⁓ this is finally the end of SEO because you know people go SEO's dead for a long time. I'm not in SEO, I advertising and I I see the other side of it. It comes and goes.

And it takes takes longer, longer for things to work. And then people when you talk to behind the scenes to SEO people, they go, ⁓ no, that doesn't work anymore. We're trying it doesn't and and I say, ⁓ this is finally the nail in the coffin. It's really gonna be dead.

But it's so opposite. Like two years later, it is absolutely like it's even more now. You need it. You need to know what you're doing when it comes to SEO and AI visibility.

⁓ so what what's your take on as you see this wave play out and out ⁓ as you see this wave play out again and again in the last ten, fifteen years? speaker-0: SEO is always going to be there, but it is also the long game. And it also changes and evolves. I mean, think about it.

Look at look at vi look at movies. Look at YouTube. What if all the special effects in movies were still like they were in the 80s? I mean, think about if someone created a movie like that now, is it gonna do well?

Probably not. Because as technology changes and evolves, those movie platforms have to change and evolve. SEO is the same way. So SEO, there was a lot of sketchy stuff going on with SEO back in the day.

The the white text on the screen to to get keywords, keyword stuffing, doing the little tricks to trick the algorithm. Well, here's the deal. The Googlebots got smarter. They started to to catch on to all of these tricks.

And you know, I built a coffee website back in the day. ⁓ it was twenty nineteen, I believe. I It's hard to say believe that's back in the day, but it really was for the time. And I built it based off that same bro psychology of building a website based on reviews and make money.

And you know what? It made money. But it felt kind of icky. It felt not aligned with what I wanted to do.

I'm made I'm making this website reviewing all of these products that I've not tried. I'm reviewing them based on reading other reviews and compiling that. In a way, that was a service for some people. They didn't have to do all the research, but it just felt a little gross.

And I always wanted to do it different. So at the same time, on my personal website, I'm doing stuff entirely different, experimenting, because like I said, you have to constantly experiment. When the helpful content update came out, it crashed all of the visibility for websites. Like across the board, we're talking Huff Post.

Was being hit. Everybody was being hit by it. CNN was being hit. Yep.

And my coffee website just crashed. Like it's out there in the Google graveyard somewhere. But my other website that I had been experimenting on, all of a sudden it was starting to get a lot more views. Because Google doubled down on the no like and trust factor.

It wanted to make sure that the information out there was credible. And that's really important. And I think that's what AI is doing today because it's not just pulling stuff from one source. So you definitely need SEO on your website, but you need an entire visibility ecosystem.

So you've got your website, you've got a podcast, you have interviews where you're guesting on other podcasts, you have a YouTube channel, anywhere you can get your name out on the internet. And Old school SEO, it was all about backlinks back to your site. But with AI, things have gotten so much smarter that you don't even need a backlink. Just a mention of your name in a video like this one, AI knows it and picks up on it and attaches that credibility to you.

speaker-1: Nice. So with all of that, so if you so this s again I'm thinking in terms of spectrums, right? So you got the like the the technical side of somebody like just say you're coaching someone, a client, you go, Hey, this is the things you gotta probably do and learn and get on top of, right? And then there's the strategy side, which are long term, you kind of do ⁓ like a road not a roadmap but maybe like a overview of their business, like a ecosystem where they can get connected to Where they should be.

Like for me it's I think it's things like Substack, Reddit, like things like LinkedIn. Right? But for a creative person it could be like more around YouTube, more around Pinterest, like not just off the main channels to do other things and get on the ⁓ musical kind of podcast thing, right? And to get them to start l like their own platform kind of thing.

Is that the is that the type of advice and roadmap you kinda draw out from? speaker-0: That could be a roadmap. Every business's roadmap is going to look different because it's based off of the business's own goals. So anytime I'm working with a client, the first thing I do is we we start with where do you want to be five years from now?

Where do you want to be 10 years from now? And then we reverse engineer from that point and create a roadmap that is going to lead them to that goal. So you want to be making a million dollars a year in 10 years, but you're only making eighty thousand dollars a year right now totally fine okay let's see what we have to do to compound that to get you to that one million dollar mark that's what you have to do so that could be for you you you write a book yeah and then you take that book and you use it with marketing and you're selling ebook versions and audiobook versions And then that's gonna be bringing you in future clients for a different client.

It might be something as simple as you're into investing and you want to build a big investing educational society. Think like Rich Dad, Poor Dad. So you you have that. Well, then you're gonna wanna be out there on podcasts, you're gonna wanna be on YouTube, you're gonna wanna be the person they cite.

So the strategy. speaker-1: Yeah yeah. speaker-0: is to put into place the different elements that will get you to that point. But you don't do them all at once.

Because if a new client came to me and I said, okay, you've got to have a podcast, you've got to have a YouTube channel, you need to be guessing, you need their their eyes are going to glaze over and they're going to quit. Yeah. So you start with where you're interested. Where are you good?

Are you really good on camera? Awesome. Let's get you on YouTube. Maybe you're better at writing.

Good. Let's get you over on Substack. Or let's get you on your own blog. All of these are possibilities.

And you start with one. And as that's going, then you implement the next. And as you're doing it, you document the systems that help each run smoothly. So it all flows together naturally and it's easy.

speaker-1: Ve very ⁓ yeah, very methodical. I like it. 'Cause it's like y it's I can see it, you know what I mean? Like nothing about you is wishy washy, which is what I like.

It's very ⁓ solid and like sometimes I think that people are overwhelmed and the the clarity that you bring is gonna help them a lot. speaker-0: Well, I have a background in teaching. I have a bachelor's degree in education. And I am really good at taking a complex concept and breaking it down into small pieces.

I still teach clarinet lessons because I love working with my students. And I work with six I've worked with sixth grade through college. And I love it. But everyone is approached in a different way.

And to be a good teacher, you need to be able to explain something at least six different ways. And I think that's what makes me a good coach too. Because I'm able to break it down in a way that makes it not only understandable for you, but also attainable. And as long as you are out there and you are putting in the effort, I will be the biggest cheerleader you have ever seen.

speaker-1: Yeah, I love it. Attainable is important too, I think as well. Yeah, no, I love it. ⁓ so in terms of like client stories, like they they of course can be anonymous, obviously.

But in terms of client stories, like is there like something that 'cause there's two questions I want to ask, right? 'Cause solopeneur, solopeneurs, I use my team. I guess am I solopeneur? I guess I am, but I have a pretty big team.

I have a full time team in the Philippines that I use to do a lot of my work and, you know, produce a lot of stuff and do a lot of deliverables. Is that still solopreneur? speaker-0: I think I would call that a entrepreneur with a small team. Even though the your team isn't there in person.

I think you still have a small team, but you would still rank in the the the small team category. speaker-1: more team category, cool. So your most of your clients and where you bring the most success is it is more like solopreneur or is like people like me? speaker-0: Can do both.

Okay. ⁓ most of the people who come to me are solopreneurs, but if you have a team, that's awesome. If you have a team, that changes the conversation though. Because we need to look at the systems that you are giving your team to implement to make sure that you're using your team as effectively as possible.

A big problem that I see when people bring on the first hire that most solopreneurs make is a VA. And they hire the VA because it's gonna help them. But they don't give the VA the direction that they need to do their job effectively. Either that or they hover over them like that helicopter mom that won't let their child, you know, pick up the chip off the ground and eat it.

They they hover over them and don't let them do their jobs. And you need to make sure that you're utilizing your team to their best capacity so that they are returning. to you the best output that they can. So it's all about the return on investment.

So if you're ⁓ if you're an entrepreneur with a small team, we want to make sure your team is running smoothly. And once your team is running smoothly, then we start looking at how many what where are your gaps? Where can we fill in those visibility gaps? And then how can your team best support you in filling those gaps and getting your online presence a little more visible?

speaker-1: Okay, nice. So if somebody came ya at to you as a solopreneur, right, and they and you kinda get a read on the situation, 'cause sometimes like there's how do I say this? ⁓ you know when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Have you heard of that phrase?

Like coaches will have one methodology and they kind of like bend everything towards 'cause they know your works kind of thing. Like I'm I'm the same. I'm not trying to put anyone down 'cause I mean advertising. So to me I look at everything in the in the mindset of advertising.

Right? Like I don't see a lot of other things. So when somebody comes to you, do you get a read on situation like you would be good with a team? Or you say, Yeah, you probably want to stick to yourself and use some AI tools.

Do you have like a kind of like a is it is it is it that extreme, like a pathway or is it like speaker-0: I think it's that extreme. I think it's a matter of you have to start small. So say you're that solopreneur. Maybe you're not ready for a team yet.

And that's okay. Or maybe, maybe all you can handle right now is a part-time VA. That's also totally okay. Let's get that to work with you and build that trust with your VA and then branch out.

Anybody who wants to grow large needs a team behind them helping. ⁓ I always say I'm an agency of one, but I I have a video editor who edits my video. ⁓ I had a virtual assistant who did a lot of my social media engagement and social media strategy for me, but I got cancer. And in in in the United States, getting sick is very expensive.

And I ate through my savings. Luckily I had it, so we still came out, kept the business running. But ⁓ I had to let her go, which was fine. She was ready to move into a different direction anyway.

But you you need help. Now, if you don't want to grow and you are perfectly happy, say you have a business that's making eighty to a hundred K a year and that is enough to pay your bills, and that is enough to live the exact life you want to live, that's awesome. Then we will work on having you as a company of one. Totally fine.

But if you want to grow bigger, we can do that too. So the I am not a one strategy fits all. I'm not a I'm not, you know, like, ⁓ you should do ads. Maybe you do ads.

Maybe you maybe you focus on podcasting. Maybe you focus on YouTube. Maybe you write a book. Yeah.

I feel like every individual is different. And I've had experience because I've run ads. I have a podcast. I have a YouTube channel.

I haven't written a book yet, but trust me, it is on my list of things to do. So speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: ⁓ I you know, I've had the blogs, I've had the websites. So, you know, I've lived through all of these and I understand the foundations to start putting them in place.

So I have one one former client, Molly, she is a a vocalist. She sings, but she also teaches voice. She she does ⁓ like singing, she does Broadway, she does opera, she does public speaking, she helps with ⁓ individuals transit transitioning between genders. So she does all of this vocal work and she was in my SEO membership and she learned all about SEO, doubled down on it.

And just the stuff that she implemented there early on, she's now getting clients from Chat GPT. Yeah. I have another client that worked with me, ⁓ Nicole, and she was in business and now she's actually a psychic medium. speaker-1: Well, speaker-0: She owns a haunted museum and she and her partner now go speak at all of these conventions.

And they opened an Etsy store to sell some of their stuff. And she set it up using the foundations that she learned from me. Yeah. And she she made six sales her first week.

Also has a podcast, and her podcast is getting thousands of downloads on a regular basis because she also implemented that SEO. Cool. speaker-1: Amazing. Yeah.

I I wanna I wanna ask ⁓ more drilled down questions. And these are tough questions, right? And and I mean if there's no answer to it and no answer to it, that's fine. I I'm just interested, right?

So as ⁓ ad specialist, ⁓ like there are certain keywords that are easy to wing on, right? And certain keywords that's that's tough. And if we had like we have clients who's got easy keywords, who's got a pretty good business, local business, not many competitors around them, we're gonna win, right? Maybe someone else would have won as well.

Like anyone whoever got that count wins. Right. So w when it comes to the ⁓ the the psychic medium thing, right? It you could how do I say this?

Like that that probably has they yes, your system definitely works, but it also helps that they're in a niche where maybe someone else not writing as much about it. That much? Yeah. As opposed to just say someone was in Australia was a mortgage broker.

Right. Like ⁓ mate, you're not you're not ranking anywhere. I don't care what you're write, you're not going anywhere. So would you say that's true or would you just you would you still find an angle like their personality or something and make ⁓ stand out against the bigger banks, you know?

You know what I mean? speaker-0: You definitely, definitely find their angle. Here's the deal. People work with you because you're you.

Okay. They don't work with you on ads because you're, you know, you're the only ad strategist strategist out there. There's tons of ad agencies, right? Yeah.

So why do they pick your ad agency? Because they know, like, and trust you. Same thing with that mortgage broker. Okay.

They know, like, and trust you. How do they do this? Well, it could be a meeting. It could be recommendations from other people who have interacted with you.

It could be your online Google reviews. All of these go into that visibility. And with that mortgage broker, what I would reach out, I would say, okay, are you getting the Google reviews? Yes.

Okay, great. ⁓ how are you following up with clients? You know, are you are you sending thank you cards? Are you doing anything like that?

How how are you doing that? I would also. Go into the online space and go, Okay, ⁓ have you, you know, have you been on any podcasts? Yes, you can go on a podcast as a mortgage broker.

Or, you know, do you want to start a YouTube channel and start explaining how the mortgage business works? You're gonna start bringing in more clients who know, like, and trust you and being recommended by others in the same way. speaker-1: Okay, got you. So so there is a way.

So now as as you're talking, like things are starting to unfold because like I said, if you ⁓ you got a hammer everything looks like a nail. So to me, like, well advertising isn't gonna work for you. Do you know what I mean? But if you have a wider spectrum and that kind of thing, it's good.

And you alluded to the the membership as well. So people can learn at their self pace as well if they wanted to. So speaker-0: The membership that I'm working now, so the creative SEO is actually closed. I've got to update that.

And I be and and it's because of all the SEO is dead rhetoric. And it's been rebranded into a program called Search to Sales. There are some trainings in there where you can learn as you go, but because everything is constantly changing, this isn't a course, it is a mentorship program. speaker-1: Yeah, yeah.

speaker-0: And there are two one hour calls every single month where you have me in the room, where you can ask questions, where you can get feedback, where we can work on your stuff together. And then I have also an elite version where that adds in a one-on-one call with me every single month to really dig deep, depending on what level of business you are and where you are in your your speaker-1: journey. Yeah, interesting. So and and the question around like ⁓ time period like length of engagement so do you just have a look at them and say look as long as there's stuff for us to do let's just keep working at it as long as you see progress until you feel like they are confident they can go on their own kind of thing.

Like what's your philosophy around that? speaker-0: Well, the mentorship program itself is one year because it takes time to build these things. ⁓ at the the the ideal client starts in that mentorship program. Mm-hmm.

Then as they get through that year in the mentorship program, they're starting to have harder issues that need a little more in depth as we build bigger and build bigger. So then that naturally evolves into the elite program. Or maybe they wanna do a a personalized one on one program where we we meet together more often. I'm always gonna be there as a support system.

But yeah, eventually you're you're gonna you're gonna be on your own, but I can still be there for you as needed. Yeah. speaker-1: I love it. I think that I think it's really good.

Like I think it's really practical 'cause I'm always exploring people's offers, right? Like what they're offering out, what they're putting out. I think it's very practical. I I try to understand a bit more about the offering and w how people service their clients.

Kind of thing. I'm really interested in that. ⁓ but there's sometimes I I have blind spots that I don't know that I haven't covered in terms of SEO, AI, anything in that field that you you think people should be doing. speaker-0: I could talk about that for three weeks.

Yeah. but this podcast isn't long enough for that. Yeah. Now, basically, in general, you want to make sure that you have a di a diverse ecosystem, basically.

Don't it goes back to the old adage, don't put all your eggs in one basket. Make sure that you are being visible on multiple different platforms. Cool. And that's the best way to start getting AI to recommend.

speaker-1: Love it. And then ⁓ if people wanted to get in touch with you to learn more about your offerings, what's the best way? speaker-0: So ⁓ my website, if you want to go straight to the search to sales page, it's tanyelawson.com slash search.

Yep. I'm also on YouTube as ⁓ DR dot Tanya Lawson. That's also my handle on Instagram and TikTok. And I have the Plan Like a Boss podcast.

speaker-1: I love it. I'm gonna put all this in the in the links in the show notes 'cause I I do recommend people, like especially solopreneurs, who are I guess w a little bit too busy to do a lot of stuff on their own and they just wanna know they can't they don't have the time to go explore things on their own and they just come to you and they kinda get in the membership, learn about it from there and then see if that works and then ⁓ escalate to ⁓ like a proper one on one.

speaker-0: ⁓ of course. I always say that I do all the research and all the learning so that you don't have to, you can just get the answer. speaker-1: Yeah, I love it. Tony, I said thank you so much for coming on the show.

I think it's been a really ⁓ important episode. ⁓ giving ⁓ like a more practical voice to all the fluff that's going flying around out there. Cool. Thank you so much.

Hey, what's up? Jeremy Yang, the online ads guy here, owner of Digital Glass Marketing. If you found whatever you're watching helpful, you found interesting, like, subscribe, comment. speaker-0: Thank you.

speaker-1: Suggest other topics you think we should cover here. We've aimed to release weekly episodes helping SMEs with marketing, advertising, talking to professionals about growth, processes, all that good stuff. Right, see you on the next one.