S04E159 The AND Approach for a fuller life as a Law Firm Owner with Gary Mitchell

1 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:50,560 SPEAKER_00: So whether you're a student leader address starting 2 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:53,760 your journey as a law firm owner, the Leadership in Law 3 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:56,960 Podcast is here to equip you with the knowledge and tools you 4 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:01,200 need to build a successful and fulfilling legal practice. 5 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:14,560 SPEAKER_01: Welcome to another episode of the Leadership in Law 6 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:14,960 Podcast. 7 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:16,640 I'm your host, Marilyn Jenkins. 8 00:01:16,719 --> 00:01:19,200 Please join me welcoming my guest, Gary Mitchell, to the 9 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:19,680 show today. 10 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:23,200 Gary is the founder of OnTrack Coach and creator of the Law 11 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:24,719 Firm Accelerator Program. 12 00:01:24,879 --> 00:01:27,840 For more than two decades, Gary has helped lawyers transform 13 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,480 their practices into businesses that actually support their 14 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:32,159 lives, not consume them. 15 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:34,960 With a background in entrepreneurship, strategy, and 16 00:01:34,960 --> 00:01:38,079 leadership, Gary works with law firm owners to build stronger 17 00:01:38,079 --> 00:01:41,439 teams, simplify operations, and develop the skills that law 18 00:01:41,439 --> 00:01:44,560 school never taught them, like business thinking, hiring, and 19 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:45,200 leadership. 20 00:01:45,359 --> 00:01:48,480 His approach challenges the traditional belief that success 21 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:51,680 in loss requires sacrificing time, health, or personal 22 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:52,159 freedom. 23 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:55,439 He's also the author of the upcoming book, The And Approach, 24 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:58,879 which focuses on how lawyers can grow a successful firm and 25 00:01:58,879 --> 00:02:00,879 create more freedom at the same time. 26 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:02,560 I'm excited to have you here, Gary. 27 00:02:02,719 --> 00:02:03,280 Welcome. 28 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:05,439 SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for having me, Marilyn. 29 00:02:05,519 --> 00:02:06,320 It's my pleasure. 30 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:07,040 SPEAKER_01: Absolutely. 31 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:08,319 I'm glad to have you back on the show. 32 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:10,719 Tell us a bit about your leadership journey. 33 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:12,799 SPEAKER_02: Oh boy. 34 00:02:13,439 --> 00:02:15,359 Perfectly honest with your audience. 35 00:02:15,519 --> 00:02:18,559 My leadership journey began with my first management job when I 36 00:02:18,559 --> 00:02:20,079 was 20, and I didn't know anything. 37 00:02:20,319 --> 00:02:23,519 To look back at that, I could call him many different things. 38 00:02:23,679 --> 00:02:25,199 I won't say it on camera. 39 00:02:25,359 --> 00:02:27,519 I shake my head and go, Wow. 40 00:02:27,759 --> 00:02:29,439 So I was a great server. 41 00:02:29,679 --> 00:02:31,119 I had good people skills. 42 00:02:31,359 --> 00:02:33,839 So the owner wanted to promote me. 43 00:02:34,079 --> 00:02:35,039 No training. 44 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:36,319 Sound familiar? 45 00:02:36,559 --> 00:02:37,199 Yeah. 46 00:02:38,079 --> 00:02:39,839 No training, no support. 47 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,479 I really didn't know how to manage or lead. 48 00:02:42,719 --> 00:02:44,879 And I look back and I go, wow. 49 00:02:45,119 --> 00:02:49,039 So then starting my first business at 25, I built a 50 00:02:49,039 --> 00:02:51,759 national event with marketing partners all across Canada, 51 00:02:52,079 --> 00:02:55,919 media partners, national media of attention and focus. 52 00:02:56,079 --> 00:02:58,159 There was leadership growth there. 53 00:02:58,399 --> 00:03:03,439 I think perhaps my personal most before law was running a 54 00:03:03,439 --> 00:03:05,839 campaign, which got me into coaching lawyers in the first 55 00:03:05,839 --> 00:03:06,000 place. 56 00:03:06,159 --> 00:03:08,959 I ran a campaign for a lawyer for parliament. 57 00:03:09,199 --> 00:03:13,199 And I was, I had the great fortune of having an amazing 58 00:03:13,199 --> 00:03:17,199 mentor who had been the years before me, decades of experience 59 00:03:17,199 --> 00:03:20,799 in political and running the campaign meetings, leading the 60 00:03:20,799 --> 00:03:21,119 team. 61 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:23,199 I learned so much from him. 62 00:03:23,359 --> 00:03:26,719 Like I think I look back, and part of the acknowledgements in 63 00:03:26,719 --> 00:03:29,679 the book we'll get into in a minute are all the teachers, all 64 00:03:29,679 --> 00:03:33,199 the mentors, all the coaches, all the people I've had in my 65 00:03:33,199 --> 00:03:34,879 life that I've learned from. 66 00:03:35,039 --> 00:03:38,639 It's also been like if there's two topics I study, it's 67 00:03:38,639 --> 00:03:40,079 leadership and business. 68 00:03:40,239 --> 00:03:43,919 Every book I'm getting on Audible is it's very focused 69 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:45,199 when people they laugh. 70 00:03:45,599 --> 00:03:46,799 I'm in Mexico for the winter. 71 00:03:46,959 --> 00:03:47,919 That's my end. 72 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:51,039 I'm traveling in my bucket list while I grow my business and 73 00:03:51,039 --> 00:03:51,599 coach. 74 00:03:51,759 --> 00:03:53,280 And my I'll take a break. 75 00:03:53,359 --> 00:03:56,399 If I do have time, I'll take a break up the pool and I'm 76 00:03:56,399 --> 00:03:57,599 listening to an audiobook. 77 00:03:57,759 --> 00:04:01,039 Well, everyone else is listening or reading or listening to 78 00:04:01,039 --> 00:04:01,919 romance novels. 79 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:04,159 I'm doing more full study in my break. 80 00:04:04,479 --> 00:04:05,039 SPEAKER_01: I love it. 81 00:04:05,359 --> 00:04:08,159 SPEAKER_02: I've been studying leadership for the better part 82 00:04:08,159 --> 00:04:09,599 of my adult life. 83 00:04:09,759 --> 00:04:12,639 Then in working with lawyers and law firms, working directly with 84 00:04:12,639 --> 00:04:17,040 law firm owners, it's become almost a singular focus because 85 00:04:17,199 --> 00:04:20,240 when you think about it, leadership is number one. 86 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:22,720 Everything else comes after that. 87 00:04:22,879 --> 00:04:23,839 Like everything. 88 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:26,480 Oh, this is the problem, this is my pain point. 89 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:29,600 This it all goes back to the leader, to the law firm owner, 90 00:04:29,759 --> 00:04:32,879 their decision-making process, how they build their teams, how 91 00:04:32,879 --> 00:04:37,680 they delegate, or not, or not, or their ability to let go of 92 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:41,360 control and perfectionism, or not. 93 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,879 SPEAKER_01: Or not these are not the kicker there. 94 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,600 SPEAKER_02: And I say with a smile and a laugh, because 95 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:48,640 there's no judgment here. 96 00:04:48,879 --> 00:04:51,520 Lawyers have been conditioned a certain way their entire lives. 97 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,080 They've started out with personality traits that are 98 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:56,560 probably a hundredfold the average human being. 99 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:00,160 These are not just lawyer traits, these are human-being 100 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:04,080 personality traits like perfectionism, like having a 101 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:08,800 sense of control, risk averse with procrastination. 102 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,879 And then the risk averse plus the perfectionism plus the 103 00:05:13,199 --> 00:05:17,040 difficulty in letting go with control, that puts up some huge 104 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:20,080 barriers to law firm owners in growing the firms, right? 105 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:23,120 So you're going along, you're the number one provider, the 106 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:26,800 clients come for you and your name, and you're working 60 107 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,199 billable hours a week, and you're trying to run your 108 00:05:29,199 --> 00:05:30,560 business on the side. 109 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:31,759 It doesn't work. 110 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:35,199 So at some point you have to make a decision which hat is 111 00:05:35,199 --> 00:05:38,240 going to be the predominant hat, the lawyer hat or the 112 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:39,920 entrepreneur owner hat. 113 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:42,400 You can't have two full-time jobs. 114 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:45,439 And when I'm working with my clients, Marilyn, I always work 115 00:05:45,439 --> 00:05:47,199 with their strengths, right? 116 00:05:47,759 --> 00:05:50,960 Like their what is we go with with their why. 117 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:51,840 What is their why? 118 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:52,960 What is their ads? 119 00:05:53,199 --> 00:05:53,520 unknown: Okay. 120 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:54,800 SPEAKER_02: What are we doing? 121 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:57,840 Then we look at their strengths and weaknesses. 122 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,280 We want to bolster their strengths and we want to fill up 123 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:04,240 fill the gaps left by their weaknesses with building their 124 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:04,640 A-T. 125 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:10,480 And this is psychologically how I help them to let go of control 126 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:16,080 and perfectionism, is we focus intently on getting the right 127 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:18,560 people building the right systems. 128 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:22,000 They can see it works, and that's how they're able to let 129 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:22,560 go of control. 130 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,600 And as soon as they do that, Marilyn, they're on the path to 131 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:27,600 more freedom, whatever their end is. 132 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,080 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think the first thing is they always say 133 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:32,160 that the thing that you don't enjoy doing, there's someone out 134 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:33,840 here that do that does enjoy it. 135 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:36,000 SPEAKER_02: And they're 10 times better at it. 136 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:36,480 SPEAKER_01: Yeah. 137 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:38,160 Um regret or regret it. 138 00:06:38,879 --> 00:06:39,920 SPEAKER_02: Let's do the math, right? 139 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:43,520 If you're a managing partner of a small firm, your billable is 140 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,560 somewhere around five to upward, maybe a thousand dollars an 141 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:46,879 hour. 142 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:49,920 If you're doing a mint task, I was on a consultation with a law 143 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:53,600 firm owner two weeks ago, and he told me, and his director of 144 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:55,360 operations was on the consultation as well. 145 00:06:55,520 --> 00:07:00,160 He told me he had spent the previous day 13 hours on 146 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:00,800 billing. 147 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:01,680 SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh. 148 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:04,879 SPEAKER_02: I just I shook my head and I was like, Do you 149 00:07:04,879 --> 00:07:07,280 realize how much money you are leaving on the table? 150 00:07:07,439 --> 00:07:10,720 It's a typical in their mind, they think I don't have the 151 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:14,640 money to hire an admin person or this person or a that person. 152 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:17,600 And I'm thinking it's just so blatantly obvious to me. 153 00:07:17,759 --> 00:07:20,879 It's like, you be the lawyer, yeah, right? 154 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:22,800 Go out and bill whatever you bill. 155 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:25,520 Uh billable hour is not my favorite subject. 156 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:29,040 I actually try to get them to value-based billing, but if it's 157 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:32,000 a standard system and you're following the billable hour, do 158 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:32,720 the math. 159 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:35,840 And what will always happen is you're going to find someone 160 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:39,680 who's better at it, and it's costing a fraction of the time, 161 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:42,960 which he means money, that you're doing to take that task. 162 00:07:43,199 --> 00:07:47,199 And even more importantly, over time, the long run, it's keeping 163 00:07:47,199 --> 00:07:51,520 you from the high-level strategy uh and leading time that you 164 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:51,759 need. 165 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:56,160 You can't, you're spreading yourself out thin on tasks that 166 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:58,879 could easily be done by other people, other people that are 167 00:07:58,879 --> 00:08:01,840 better at it, other people that will cost you far less. 168 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:03,360 So that's another now. 169 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:08,400 Talk about and so people often ask me, what do you start with 170 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:08,640 first? 171 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:11,439 I'm like, and because they're all interrelated. 172 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:13,600 SPEAKER_01: Everything is they come back to your why, right? 173 00:08:13,759 --> 00:08:16,560 You've got to work your way down to from your why in your head to 174 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:17,520 the why in your heart. 175 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:19,520 And then your and comes in. 176 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,160 You have to know your why before you can do that, right? 177 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:22,720 SPEAKER_02: Yeah. 178 00:08:22,879 --> 00:08:24,400 What is your why for doing this? 179 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:25,439 What do you envision? 180 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:28,400 And again, as a coach, I'm not there to say you're right or 181 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:28,800 wrong. 182 00:08:28,879 --> 00:08:29,920 It's your why. 183 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:32,960 Your particular Marilyn's why is different than Gary's why is 184 00:08:33,039 --> 00:08:34,319 different than her client's why. 185 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:35,039 I'm not here. 186 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:36,879 I'm here to help you get it. 187 00:08:37,039 --> 00:08:37,199 Right. 188 00:08:37,919 --> 00:08:41,199 And cut through lawyers always because they're so stuck on 189 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:46,479 speaking of time, they're so stuck on bill equals time. 190 00:08:48,079 --> 00:08:52,079 I've recently come up in this a consultation helped me time to 191 00:08:52,079 --> 00:08:52,159 this. 192 00:08:52,319 --> 00:08:53,279 20 years in, Marilyn. 193 00:08:53,519 --> 00:08:55,360 But you got to be still learning every day, right? 194 00:08:55,519 --> 00:08:55,839 Every day. 195 00:08:56,079 --> 00:08:59,360 To get away from the lawyer brain of oh, so we weekly calls 196 00:08:59,439 --> 00:09:01,759 and blah, blah, blah and I could see it in there, see it buzzing 197 00:09:01,759 --> 00:09:04,559 in their when they see the retainer, they're dividing that 198 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:06,399 by the hours of coaching. 199 00:09:07,199 --> 00:09:12,319 I'm like, oh, you're not buying my time, you're buying your time 200 00:09:12,319 --> 00:09:17,759 back, and you're buying 20 years of lessons learned from 201 00:09:17,759 --> 00:09:18,719 mistakes. 202 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,199 That is priceless. 203 00:09:22,079 --> 00:09:25,919 Like the old saying, Pavarani didn't make$10 million in 204 00:09:25,919 --> 00:09:26,959 one-hour concert. 205 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:31,679 He made$10 million because he spent 40 years gathering the 206 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:34,879 experience and the skills to be able to sing on that level. 207 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:35,439 SPEAKER_01: Yeah. 208 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:37,120 SPEAKER_02: So that's the thing. 209 00:09:37,279 --> 00:09:41,360 I use that argument too when I'm introducing or arguing for. 210 00:09:42,719 --> 00:09:43,919 I do argue with lawyers. 211 00:09:44,079 --> 00:09:44,639 Can you believe it? 212 00:09:44,719 --> 00:09:45,199 Who am I? 213 00:09:45,759 --> 00:09:48,959 But I argue the same point for the value-based billing. 214 00:09:49,279 --> 00:09:54,399 Clients care less about how much time they want an outcome. 215 00:09:54,719 --> 00:09:58,479 And many times in their brain, an outcome is worth a certain 216 00:09:58,479 --> 00:09:58,959 amount. 217 00:09:59,279 --> 00:10:02,559 And it doesn't matter how long it takes you to get to that 218 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:03,120 outcome. 219 00:10:03,279 --> 00:10:03,759 Right. 220 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:05,679 The fact is you're getting to it. 221 00:10:05,839 --> 00:10:06,879 That's the thing. 222 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:10,319 So lawyers will automatically say if I work, if I move away 223 00:10:10,319 --> 00:10:12,240 from the billball hour, I'm gonna make less. 224 00:10:12,479 --> 00:10:15,919 You actually have the potential to make more, and your clients 225 00:10:15,919 --> 00:10:18,959 are more happy because they're not getting dinged every six 226 00:10:18,959 --> 00:10:20,000 minutes, right? 227 00:10:20,159 --> 00:10:20,399 SPEAKER_01: Right. 228 00:10:20,639 --> 00:10:23,199 SPEAKER_02: Who wants to see phone call to clients six 229 00:10:23,199 --> 00:10:24,639 minutes or point six? 230 00:10:24,799 --> 00:10:25,120 Right? 231 00:10:25,279 --> 00:10:25,679 SPEAKER_01: Yeah. 232 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:29,919 SPEAKER_02: Anyway, so there's a lot of what I work through with 233 00:10:29,919 --> 00:10:31,199 my clients, and it's in the book. 234 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,639 Everything I've done in 20 years is in the book, is a lot about 235 00:10:34,639 --> 00:10:36,959 mindset, taking a different view. 236 00:10:37,599 --> 00:10:41,839 We have the lawyer mind, highly skeptical, critical, analytical. 237 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:42,399 Right. 238 00:10:42,959 --> 00:10:46,000 These are not bad things, these are the reasons why we hire 239 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:47,039 lawyers, lawyers. 240 00:10:47,199 --> 00:10:49,919 Those are qualities that make for a great lawyer. 241 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:55,279 The trouble is, transitioning in a growing firm is those skills 242 00:10:55,279 --> 00:10:59,039 are diametrically opposed to the skills required to be great at 243 00:10:59,039 --> 00:10:59,679 business. 244 00:11:00,479 --> 00:11:03,279 It's the whole left brain versus brain challenge. 245 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:08,479 So a lot is to gently help them understand this is the way you 246 00:11:08,479 --> 00:11:08,639 think. 247 00:11:08,799 --> 00:11:12,000 It serves you very well in your practice, being a lawyer, 248 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:13,199 serving your clients. 249 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:15,839 But we need to look over here. 250 00:11:16,399 --> 00:11:18,159 I always like to bring humor. 251 00:11:18,399 --> 00:11:20,639 It's just my personality, Marinette. 252 00:11:20,799 --> 00:11:21,439 It's not all serious. 253 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:22,879 Right. 254 00:11:23,199 --> 00:11:28,639 So I think your left brain has had Olympian level training. 255 00:11:28,879 --> 00:11:32,000 While your right brain has been binging Netflix on the couch 256 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:33,360 with potato chips. 257 00:11:34,159 --> 00:11:34,879 SPEAKER_01: I love that. 258 00:11:34,959 --> 00:11:35,599 That's hilarious. 259 00:11:35,919 --> 00:11:38,639 SPEAKER_02: We need to get your right brain off the couch. 260 00:11:40,959 --> 00:11:43,599 SPEAKER_01: So is that are do you you're starting obviously 261 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:46,240 with talking leadership that where they are, are you working 262 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:49,120 on mindset and as well as processes? 263 00:11:49,439 --> 00:11:50,000 SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah. 264 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,599 Mindset is actually uh three. 265 00:11:53,759 --> 00:11:55,519 So chapter three of the book. 266 00:11:55,759 --> 00:11:59,279 There's first kind of a profile of the ascending law firm owner, 267 00:11:59,439 --> 00:12:03,519 their personality, their fears, their hopes, their dreams, what 268 00:12:03,519 --> 00:12:04,559 keeps them up at night. 269 00:12:04,719 --> 00:12:07,839 There's even a journal entry as an appendix at the end of 270 00:12:07,839 --> 00:12:10,399 chapter one, which is I think people will find very 271 00:12:10,399 --> 00:12:11,120 entertaining. 272 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:13,919 The endorsements so far are pretty spectacular. 273 00:12:14,079 --> 00:12:16,799 I think have captured the lawyer mind pretty well. 274 00:12:17,039 --> 00:12:19,519 So then it talks about lawyer traits, right? 275 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:23,679 And then it talks about creating that mindset that is required 276 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:24,639 for success in business. 277 00:12:24,719 --> 00:12:26,399 So there's a lot, and it's all a crunch. 278 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:29,759 Then there's self-care and practice management, also, all 279 00:12:29,759 --> 00:12:32,159 before we dive into the business strategies. 280 00:12:32,319 --> 00:12:33,919 There's a reason why I do that. 281 00:12:34,159 --> 00:12:38,319 Everything I've learned in life and business has come down to I 282 00:12:38,319 --> 00:12:41,679 truly believe attitude accounts for 99% of everything. 283 00:12:41,919 --> 00:12:42,479 SPEAKER_01: Good point. 284 00:12:42,639 --> 00:12:45,039 SPEAKER_02: You can you can come from the best law school, you 285 00:12:45,039 --> 00:12:46,240 can have the best grades. 286 00:12:46,399 --> 00:12:49,039 If you don't have the right attitude, you won't go far. 287 00:12:49,199 --> 00:12:53,279 Whereas somebody with a B coming from a second tier or even third 288 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:57,439 tier law school, B average, chances are they were probably 289 00:12:57,439 --> 00:12:59,839 working to put themselves through law school. 290 00:13:00,079 --> 00:13:04,959 So that shows work ethic, shows dedication, shows hard work, 291 00:13:05,199 --> 00:13:05,519 right? 292 00:13:05,919 --> 00:13:07,759 And I've seen it over and over again. 293 00:13:07,919 --> 00:13:10,799 Someone new, fresh, right at it. 294 00:13:10,959 --> 00:13:13,519 They don't have experience, but they're a sponge. 295 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:17,199 They do what it takes, they study when they have to, they 296 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:19,039 get to it, they get it done. 297 00:13:19,199 --> 00:13:21,279 So that's one of the philosophies I help them 298 00:13:21,279 --> 00:13:23,839 understand with respect to hiring as well. 299 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:25,360 Well, there's a this is a true story. 300 00:13:25,439 --> 00:13:28,879 I think it was in my second or third year, I read an article 301 00:13:29,199 --> 00:13:32,399 printed about a very successful firm in the US. 302 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:35,599 Their hiring strategy is they buy they always bypassed 303 00:13:35,599 --> 00:13:36,959 first-tier law schools. 304 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:41,279 Okay, so they started at second tier and down and down, and they 305 00:13:41,279 --> 00:13:44,719 were looking for B, they bypassed A students as well. 306 00:13:44,879 --> 00:13:47,519 And they were looking for B students because what they found 307 00:13:47,519 --> 00:13:51,679 over time is that those B students were actually working 308 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:52,799 at the same time. 309 00:13:53,039 --> 00:13:55,919 They were not handed the education on it, they were not 310 00:13:55,919 --> 00:13:57,360 silver spoon students. 311 00:13:57,519 --> 00:14:00,559 Nothing against those people for having a great life being born 312 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:02,959 into a family that has wherewithal and money. 313 00:14:03,199 --> 00:14:03,519 No. 314 00:14:04,159 --> 00:14:07,199 When you have to work for things, it builds a certain kind 315 00:14:07,199 --> 00:14:10,240 of attitude and strength, like thick skin. 316 00:14:10,399 --> 00:14:13,039 And so they found these people, when they landed at the law 317 00:14:13,039 --> 00:14:15,839 firm, worked harder, got along well with others. 318 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:16,799 Teamwork. 319 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:18,319 It was about the task. 320 00:14:19,039 --> 00:14:22,399 Yeah, it was about the clients, it was about the service, it was 321 00:14:22,399 --> 00:14:25,199 about doing whatever it would take to get the job done. 322 00:14:25,439 --> 00:14:28,639 And every it seems every evolution, every new client, I 323 00:14:28,639 --> 00:14:29,919 see the same thing, right? 324 00:14:30,079 --> 00:14:33,519 Someone can be super talented, but they've got a grudge on 325 00:14:33,519 --> 00:14:36,240 their shoulder or they've got some level of entitlement. 326 00:14:36,479 --> 00:14:39,839 It holds them back from being their best self, right? 327 00:14:40,159 --> 00:14:40,479 SPEAKER_01: Yeah. 328 00:14:40,639 --> 00:14:43,759 Now, do you find that which one of those is better at, and we're 329 00:14:43,759 --> 00:14:46,559 going back to a leadership question, better at delegating? 330 00:14:46,719 --> 00:14:49,360 Because I know that it can be the point where it's I can just 331 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:50,559 do it faster if I do it. 332 00:14:50,639 --> 00:15:27,409 And that's obviously not the cost-effective business planning 333 00:15:27,409 --> 00:15:28,129 type thing you want. 334 00:15:28,289 --> 00:15:29,730 Delegation is so important. 335 00:15:29,970 --> 00:15:33,330 Do you find either one of those is better at it or both need to 336 00:15:33,330 --> 00:15:34,210 be taught? 337 00:15:34,610 --> 00:15:36,930 SPEAKER_02: Both need to be taught, but the one that has a 338 00:15:36,930 --> 00:15:39,889 better work ethic will be taught and managed less. 339 00:15:40,049 --> 00:15:43,570 You'll have to manage them less, you'll have to teach them less. 340 00:15:43,810 --> 00:15:47,250 The one have the higher grades, has the entitlement and 341 00:15:47,250 --> 00:15:51,169 attitude, will think they know more than they do, will not come 342 00:15:51,169 --> 00:15:54,690 to you and ask for help, is not open to as much constructive 343 00:15:54,850 --> 00:15:56,690 criticism for growth. 344 00:15:56,930 --> 00:15:59,810 I bet they'll be the ones who disappoint you more often. 345 00:15:59,970 --> 00:16:02,129 Now, here's the thing delegation. 346 00:16:02,610 --> 00:16:03,970 That's a biggie as well. 347 00:16:05,009 --> 00:16:07,649 So it's a human thing, it's not just a lawyer thing. 348 00:16:07,810 --> 00:16:09,889 I've come up with another equation. 349 00:16:10,129 --> 00:16:13,009 Everything lawyers are, all human beings are. 350 00:16:13,169 --> 00:16:15,169 After all, lawyers are human beings. 351 00:16:15,490 --> 00:16:17,570 Some might disagree with that statement. 352 00:16:19,409 --> 00:16:21,810 Sorry, I like to keep it, I like to keep it light. 353 00:16:21,889 --> 00:16:23,409 That's my only lawyer joke. 354 00:16:23,570 --> 00:16:24,690 And I lost my track. 355 00:16:24,769 --> 00:16:27,649 See, I sometimes when I bring in humor, it's boom, the thoughts 356 00:16:27,730 --> 00:16:28,370 out the window. 357 00:16:28,610 --> 00:16:29,169 What was it about? 358 00:16:29,490 --> 00:16:31,009 SPEAKER_01: We were talking about delegation. 359 00:16:31,330 --> 00:16:32,210 SPEAKER_02: Right, delegation. 360 00:16:32,289 --> 00:16:32,610 Okay. 361 00:16:32,930 --> 00:16:35,970 So the typical person when they delegate, and this is 362 00:16:35,970 --> 00:16:39,330 leadership, all leadership, you've done it a thousand times. 363 00:16:39,490 --> 00:16:43,409 In your brain, you can't wait to get this task out of your brain 364 00:16:43,409 --> 00:16:45,009 and off to someone else. 365 00:16:45,169 --> 00:16:47,730 So you're very short in your instructions. 366 00:16:47,889 --> 00:16:50,210 You're assuming I've done it a thousand times. 367 00:16:50,370 --> 00:16:52,049 This person can pick it up really quickly. 368 00:16:52,129 --> 00:16:53,409 They're bright, they're smart. 369 00:16:53,649 --> 00:16:54,610 First mistake. 370 00:16:54,850 --> 00:16:55,009 SPEAKER_01: Right. 371 00:16:55,490 --> 00:16:58,850 SPEAKER_02: And it's it's time in, time out, that's the first 372 00:16:58,850 --> 00:16:59,250 mistake. 373 00:16:59,409 --> 00:17:02,129 Lawyers and anyone else in a leadership role will make. 374 00:17:02,370 --> 00:17:03,649 Human condition. 375 00:17:04,049 --> 00:17:07,649 Second mistake is they won't let the person they're delegating to 376 00:17:07,649 --> 00:17:11,250 know that they are available, open door, if that person has 377 00:17:11,250 --> 00:17:13,329 any challenges or struggles or questions. 378 00:17:13,490 --> 00:17:15,730 So I'm always here to give you feedback. 379 00:17:15,889 --> 00:17:19,089 Third mistake they make is not follow up sooner than later. 380 00:17:19,250 --> 00:17:22,930 If you've given someone a task and it's due by Friday, don't 381 00:17:22,930 --> 00:17:23,970 wait till Friday. 382 00:17:24,129 --> 00:17:26,129 Check in with them on Tuesday or Wednesday. 383 00:17:26,369 --> 00:17:27,250 How's it going? 384 00:17:27,490 --> 00:17:32,049 Here's the thing: when you put the investment up front in 385 00:17:32,049 --> 00:17:36,129 effectively delegating, the payoff is amazing. 386 00:17:37,169 --> 00:17:39,649 Properly it is very quick. 387 00:17:40,129 --> 00:17:41,250 We're dealing with smart people. 388 00:17:41,409 --> 00:17:42,609 That's what I find in my coaching. 389 00:17:42,690 --> 00:17:45,730 Even though I'm teaching them new skills, new approaches, new 390 00:17:45,730 --> 00:17:48,210 strategies, we're dealing with very smart people. 391 00:17:48,370 --> 00:17:50,769 They learn quickly when they're given the right direction. 392 00:17:51,650 --> 00:17:53,650 Again, think of it as an investment. 393 00:17:53,730 --> 00:17:56,450 Don't think of it as, oh my God, I just spend a half an hour 394 00:17:56,450 --> 00:17:57,490 giving instructions. 395 00:17:57,650 --> 00:17:59,490 If you got now, here's the other equation. 396 00:17:59,650 --> 00:18:00,289 I go back to it. 397 00:18:00,450 --> 00:18:04,049 If you got the right people and you're giving the right 398 00:18:04,049 --> 00:18:07,490 instructions, this is a winning formula. 399 00:18:07,650 --> 00:18:11,250 You'll find out very quickly if you don't have the right people, 400 00:18:11,410 --> 00:18:13,809 if you're doing your part of it, if you're delegating 401 00:18:13,809 --> 00:18:17,089 effectively, following up, making sure they've got support, 402 00:18:17,250 --> 00:18:19,650 making sure they know you can always come to them. 403 00:18:19,809 --> 00:18:22,930 They can come to you for follow-up, but you'll know very 404 00:18:22,930 --> 00:18:24,529 quickly if you don't have the right people. 405 00:18:25,089 --> 00:18:29,410 The next I use is you get the right people, the right systems, 406 00:18:29,890 --> 00:18:31,809 press play, plug and play. 407 00:18:31,890 --> 00:18:33,089 That's what I call it. 408 00:18:33,329 --> 00:18:35,809 And this is how you scale for growth. 409 00:18:35,970 --> 00:18:38,849 And it gets you on the path to freedom because you are not the 410 00:18:38,849 --> 00:18:40,049 bottleneck anymore. 411 00:18:40,370 --> 00:18:40,609 Right? 412 00:18:40,930 --> 00:18:45,009 People to come to you for a simple decision on something. 413 00:18:45,250 --> 00:18:48,370 You have empowered your people, you've given them growth 414 00:18:48,370 --> 00:18:51,569 opportunities, you've given them support, you've given them very 415 00:18:51,569 --> 00:18:55,890 effective instruction, followed up, been compassionate as they 416 00:18:55,890 --> 00:18:56,210 learn. 417 00:18:56,370 --> 00:19:00,049 Remember when you were starting out, remember your senior lawyer 418 00:19:00,289 --> 00:19:03,730 and the lack of direction he gave you or she gave you and all 419 00:19:03,730 --> 00:19:05,089 the stress it caused you. 420 00:19:05,329 --> 00:19:06,529 Don't be that. 421 00:19:06,849 --> 00:19:09,730 Be the leader you wanted when you were coming up. 422 00:19:10,370 --> 00:19:13,089 Be the leader that you would have appreciated when you were 423 00:19:13,089 --> 00:19:14,289 coming up in your career. 424 00:19:14,450 --> 00:19:18,609 And the investment, Marilyn, you know this from your interaction 425 00:19:18,609 --> 00:19:19,650 with law firms. 426 00:19:19,890 --> 00:19:23,970 It's just amazing the return on investment for that. 427 00:19:24,210 --> 00:19:27,569 So it's just it's helping them to just look at things in 428 00:19:27,569 --> 00:19:27,970 different ways. 429 00:19:28,289 --> 00:19:30,849 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you know, this one side about uh beyond 430 00:19:30,849 --> 00:19:33,809 that, you create the system's SOP or whatever, and you didn't 431 00:19:33,809 --> 00:19:35,809 delegate that, you give that to someone. 432 00:19:35,970 --> 00:19:40,049 You've now given them a value in your company, right? 433 00:19:40,450 --> 00:19:43,970 So not only have you just bought back your time, this person's 434 00:19:43,970 --> 00:19:48,450 gonna do more for you, which will give you more time, which 435 00:19:48,450 --> 00:19:50,370 will be more productive in the long run. 436 00:19:50,450 --> 00:19:53,410 It's a win-win with the right person in the right seat. 437 00:19:53,650 --> 00:19:54,210 SPEAKER_02: Exactly. 438 00:19:54,289 --> 00:19:55,890 And you're empowering them. 439 00:19:56,130 --> 00:19:57,490 Here's another tip, too. 440 00:19:57,730 --> 00:20:01,890 Get them engaged in the client relationships as early as you 441 00:20:01,890 --> 00:20:02,210 can. 442 00:20:02,930 --> 00:20:05,170 This is to them, it's a reward. 443 00:20:05,329 --> 00:20:08,450 It's like instead of head down in the cubicle, never seeing the 444 00:20:08,450 --> 00:20:11,329 light of day, or clients, the people who are benefiting from 445 00:20:11,329 --> 00:20:13,970 their work, they're going to a client events. 446 00:20:14,210 --> 00:20:16,769 They may go with the senior partner, the managing partner, 447 00:20:17,009 --> 00:20:19,089 however the makeup is. 448 00:20:19,250 --> 00:20:22,130 And you go and meet with a client, and that person can be 449 00:20:22,130 --> 00:20:22,930 their witness. 450 00:20:23,170 --> 00:20:26,930 And when you know that there could be good feedback, the 451 00:20:26,930 --> 00:20:30,289 managing partner looks over at the associate and says, Do you 452 00:20:30,289 --> 00:20:31,650 think I missed anything? 453 00:20:31,970 --> 00:20:35,089 Nine tens of nine times out of ten, that associate's gonna have 454 00:20:35,089 --> 00:20:38,210 an idea that you didn't think of, and you're demonstrating in 455 00:20:38,210 --> 00:20:41,569 front of the client that you have a team of people that are 456 00:20:41,569 --> 00:20:43,490 capable, it's not just you. 457 00:20:43,809 --> 00:20:45,730 So that ends the whole argument. 458 00:20:45,890 --> 00:20:49,329 They come to me for me, they come to me for my expertise. 459 00:20:49,569 --> 00:20:53,970 Okay, okay, let go of the ego, because that's nice. 460 00:20:54,130 --> 00:20:55,730 It's nice to feel wanted, yes. 461 00:20:55,890 --> 00:20:59,089 But if you want to grow, you have to grow, you have to 462 00:20:59,089 --> 00:21:02,609 delegate, you have to get these responsibilities off your plate, 463 00:21:02,849 --> 00:21:05,170 demonstrate to the client that it's not just you. 464 00:21:05,250 --> 00:21:08,769 You've built a team of amazing talent, talented people, 465 00:21:09,009 --> 00:21:11,089 dedicated, and it's not you. 466 00:21:11,329 --> 00:21:15,170 That's how you can be climbing a mountain, laying on a beach, 467 00:21:15,490 --> 00:21:19,170 touring monsu pinchu, whatever it is, whatever your end is, 468 00:21:19,410 --> 00:21:22,450 until you like there's a number of steps, and they're not always 469 00:21:22,450 --> 00:21:25,009 in the same order, Marilyn, because it depends on who we're 470 00:21:25,009 --> 00:21:25,650 dealing with, right? 471 00:21:25,730 --> 00:21:30,849 I do not ever with anything profess cookie cutter with HR, 472 00:21:31,170 --> 00:21:35,970 with onboarding, it's always got to be a little bit customized to 473 00:21:35,970 --> 00:21:36,609 the individual. 474 00:21:36,769 --> 00:21:38,609 And it's the same way I approach my coaching. 475 00:21:38,769 --> 00:21:42,930 I never treat any two law firm owners exactly the same because 476 00:21:42,930 --> 00:21:43,490 they're not. 477 00:21:43,730 --> 00:21:47,890 We are individual human beings, and we may have the same traits, 478 00:21:48,210 --> 00:21:50,450 but all to varying degrees, right? 479 00:21:50,609 --> 00:21:53,569 We have different experiences in life, different experiences 480 00:21:53,569 --> 00:21:57,410 professionally, and these all form the way we think and the 481 00:21:57,410 --> 00:21:58,289 way we work. 482 00:21:58,450 --> 00:22:01,009 Uh, yes, it's harder as human beings. 483 00:22:01,089 --> 00:22:04,849 We want to press the easy button, one policy, one across 484 00:22:04,849 --> 00:22:05,410 the board. 485 00:22:05,650 --> 00:22:07,970 We know the results that come from that approach. 486 00:22:08,049 --> 00:22:08,289 SPEAKER_01: Yeah. 487 00:22:08,529 --> 00:22:09,170 SPEAKER_02: Chaos. 488 00:22:09,329 --> 00:22:11,730 People leaving all the time, it's a revolving door. 489 00:22:11,890 --> 00:22:16,210 None of this is easy, but it's not as hard as it may seem when 490 00:22:16,210 --> 00:22:17,730 you make a few little shifts. 491 00:22:17,890 --> 00:22:22,130 We're not talking about changing everything, but making a few 492 00:22:22,130 --> 00:22:24,769 little shifts compounds over time. 493 00:22:25,250 --> 00:22:28,450 And then you see the light come on because they're seeing 494 00:22:28,450 --> 00:22:28,690 results. 495 00:22:29,009 --> 00:22:31,089 SPEAKER_01: I have a coach that's actually said you can't 496 00:22:31,089 --> 00:22:32,849 see the full picture if you're in the frame. 497 00:22:33,009 --> 00:22:35,970 So sometimes we need someone like you to point out what we 498 00:22:35,970 --> 00:22:36,769 can't see. 499 00:22:37,170 --> 00:22:38,930 SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's very it's actually very true. 500 00:22:39,009 --> 00:22:39,730 And I do too. 501 00:22:39,809 --> 00:22:41,250 Uh yeah, like I need that too. 502 00:22:41,329 --> 00:22:42,930 We all that's a human thing for sure. 503 00:22:43,730 --> 00:22:44,450 We're in it. 504 00:22:44,609 --> 00:22:47,650 We can't, we're so focused on what we're doing, and we're all 505 00:22:47,650 --> 00:22:48,289 busy people. 506 00:22:48,370 --> 00:22:50,049 We're doing a lot of things at the same time. 507 00:22:53,809 --> 00:22:55,890 Here's another thing I've learned finally. 508 00:22:56,049 --> 00:22:58,930 In some areas, I'm very slow learner, Marilyn. 509 00:22:59,250 --> 00:23:03,410 At the finale of the events in Toronto, when I was 28, okay, my 510 00:23:03,410 --> 00:23:06,930 mother looks at me and she goes, she looks around and then she 511 00:23:06,930 --> 00:23:10,289 looks at me and she goes, Gary, you have no idea what you've 512 00:23:10,289 --> 00:23:11,410 created, do you? 513 00:23:11,890 --> 00:23:15,089 I look around, whatever, but I what do you mean? 514 00:23:15,410 --> 00:23:16,130 Exactly. 515 00:23:16,370 --> 00:23:23,970 She says the other thing I've learned expensively, thank God 516 00:23:24,049 --> 00:23:26,849 I've had I've lived long enough to so you got it, is it I'm 517 00:23:26,849 --> 00:23:28,370 enjoying every step of the way. 518 00:23:28,529 --> 00:23:30,289 I encourage my clients too as well. 519 00:23:30,529 --> 00:23:31,569 Enjoy the journey. 520 00:23:31,730 --> 00:23:35,089 Enjoy this little win, enjoy that big win. 521 00:23:35,329 --> 00:23:36,289 Just enjoy it. 522 00:23:36,450 --> 00:23:39,970 Yes, we need to be focused on what our Y is, what our and is, 523 00:23:40,130 --> 00:23:41,009 we're ready. 524 00:23:41,730 --> 00:23:46,289 From my experience, the Udiverse, uh, whatever you want 525 00:23:46,289 --> 00:23:49,809 to call it, sometimes has different ideas and can take us 526 00:23:49,809 --> 00:23:53,009 in a better direction if we stay open. 527 00:23:53,170 --> 00:23:54,529 And that's being more present. 528 00:23:54,609 --> 00:23:57,809 And being more present is actually enjoying the moments 529 00:23:57,809 --> 00:23:58,849 and enjoying the journey. 530 00:23:59,009 --> 00:24:00,130 So that's a valuable lesson. 531 00:24:00,289 --> 00:24:04,210 I try to uh impart that on my clients as well because they're 532 00:24:04,210 --> 00:24:06,210 working very hard, as we all are. 533 00:24:09,089 --> 00:24:11,089 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, all of a sudden, yeah, your kids are 534 00:24:11,089 --> 00:24:12,609 grown and you're like, what happened? 535 00:24:12,849 --> 00:24:13,170 Yeah. 536 00:24:13,490 --> 00:24:15,329 SPEAKER_02: Well, that's the other thing, right? 537 00:24:15,809 --> 00:24:19,410 If you don't mind missing your daughter's recital or your son's 538 00:24:19,410 --> 00:24:22,849 soccer practice, your anniversary, not taking a 539 00:24:22,849 --> 00:24:26,049 vacation, working the nights, working weekends, that's all 540 00:24:26,049 --> 00:24:26,690 fine with you. 541 00:24:27,089 --> 00:24:29,890 Do not buy my book and don't hire me. 542 00:24:31,730 --> 00:24:34,049 SPEAKER_01: If a lot more firm owner wants to grow their 543 00:24:34,049 --> 00:24:37,009 business and create more freedom and save time at the same time, 544 00:24:37,250 --> 00:24:39,329 what is the obviously buy your book? 545 00:24:39,569 --> 00:24:42,450 What's the one principle that they should focus on first? 546 00:24:44,289 --> 00:24:47,250 SPEAKER_02: Build from strength and build your day team. 547 00:24:49,970 --> 00:24:51,809 SPEAKER_01: And how would your book help us? 548 00:24:52,049 --> 00:24:55,890 So you talked about chapter three, so the book, the and 549 00:24:56,049 --> 00:24:56,450 approach. 550 00:24:56,930 --> 00:24:59,650 Tell us a bit how that, who is that focused for? 551 00:24:59,809 --> 00:25:00,849 How can that help them? 552 00:25:01,170 --> 00:25:04,130 Just succinctly drawing it to the close here. 553 00:25:04,529 --> 00:25:07,170 SPEAKER_02: It's written in the words of the law firm owners 554 00:25:07,170 --> 00:25:09,730 that have endorsed the book, they've read and endorsed it. 555 00:25:09,890 --> 00:25:11,890 They're former clients, they've endorsed it. 556 00:25:12,130 --> 00:25:14,690 Whether you're starting out, whether you're in solo practice, 557 00:25:14,849 --> 00:25:17,490 whether you're a junior lawyer, whether you're a senior partner 558 00:25:17,490 --> 00:25:20,450 at a national firm, or you're running your own firm, this book 559 00:25:20,450 --> 00:25:21,410 is a must-have. 560 00:25:21,569 --> 00:25:25,809 It's the most holistic approach to growing a practice, okay, and 561 00:25:25,809 --> 00:25:27,410 then firm beyond that. 562 00:25:27,730 --> 00:25:33,410 So beyond mindset and self-care practice management, there's HR, 563 00:25:33,569 --> 00:25:37,329 there's a hiring strategy, onboarding strategies, retention 564 00:25:37,329 --> 00:25:40,849 strategies, bonus structure, incentives, all of that. 565 00:25:41,009 --> 00:25:41,890 There's a ton. 566 00:25:42,049 --> 00:25:44,210 Leadership is the second largest chapter. 567 00:25:44,370 --> 00:25:47,250 So I've put many different scenarios of what leadership in 568 00:25:47,250 --> 00:25:49,009 a law means looks like. 569 00:25:49,170 --> 00:25:51,809 Strategies for how to become your best leader. 570 00:25:52,049 --> 00:25:57,490 By the way, that managed my 20-year-old manager leader to 571 00:25:57,490 --> 00:26:00,450 the campaign leader, to the leader now that I am. 572 00:26:00,690 --> 00:26:03,650 When you become a better leader, it feels better. 573 00:26:06,210 --> 00:26:09,410 The energy you are getting back from the people you are working 574 00:26:09,410 --> 00:26:11,250 with is positive. 575 00:26:11,410 --> 00:26:12,769 It's collaborative. 576 00:26:13,009 --> 00:26:15,009 It grows, it moves forward. 577 00:26:15,170 --> 00:26:18,370 There is a reward beyond financial here for you, for 578 00:26:18,370 --> 00:26:21,890 those of you who do want to improve your leadership skills. 579 00:26:22,130 --> 00:26:23,890 Your life will be better quality. 580 00:26:24,049 --> 00:26:25,809 That's one of the added benefits. 581 00:26:26,370 --> 00:26:29,009 So there's obviously marketing, that's the largest chapter. 582 00:26:29,250 --> 00:26:32,609 Marketing, business development, HR, leadership. 583 00:26:32,849 --> 00:26:35,809 It's the whole thing, really, for law firm owners. 584 00:26:35,890 --> 00:26:39,490 But like the lawyer said that Reddit, if you're a lawyer, you 585 00:26:39,490 --> 00:26:40,370 want to grow in practice. 586 00:26:40,529 --> 00:26:42,849 Here's your roadmap, here's your blueprint. 587 00:26:43,089 --> 00:26:46,609 It literally is the culmination of everything I've done in my 588 00:26:46,609 --> 00:26:49,809 professional life in the outside of coaching lawyers as well. 589 00:26:50,049 --> 00:26:52,930 Things I learned as an entrepreneur the hard way. 590 00:26:53,089 --> 00:26:53,329 Yeah. 591 00:26:53,569 --> 00:26:57,009 Most of us entrepreneurs, that's we don't learn when we get big 592 00:26:57,009 --> 00:26:58,769 wins and we succeed. 593 00:26:59,089 --> 00:27:02,930 We learn from falling down, picking ourselves back up, doing 594 00:27:02,930 --> 00:27:04,289 a little bit of post-mortem. 595 00:27:04,370 --> 00:27:07,170 What was right, what was wrong, what can I improve, and going 596 00:27:07,170 --> 00:27:07,970 back on it again. 597 00:27:08,130 --> 00:27:10,769 See, that's a different mindset, too, that I have to work on with 598 00:27:10,849 --> 00:27:13,089 because lawyers don't like to make mistakes. 599 00:27:13,329 --> 00:27:15,490 It's it's hurt their shield somehow. 600 00:27:15,650 --> 00:27:17,170 It's like they can't make mistakes. 601 00:27:17,490 --> 00:27:20,450 That's very that attitude is very acceptable within the 602 00:27:20,450 --> 00:27:24,289 practice of law because obviously making a mistake can 603 00:27:24,289 --> 00:27:26,529 lead to serious ramifications. 604 00:27:28,210 --> 00:27:29,970 So it's there's a lot of pressure. 605 00:27:30,210 --> 00:27:33,009 But in business, we don't learn and what unless we make 606 00:27:33,089 --> 00:27:33,490 mistakes. 607 00:27:33,730 --> 00:27:37,730 So there's strategies I use to help them make them calculated 608 00:27:37,730 --> 00:27:41,730 risks, not just trying everything willy-nilly, but 609 00:27:41,730 --> 00:27:45,089 based on 20 years, based on these scenarios, based on these 610 00:27:45,089 --> 00:27:48,849 factors, with this information in front of us, this is your 611 00:27:48,849 --> 00:27:49,490 best bet. 612 00:27:50,289 --> 00:27:53,569 So we go with we go with proof, understanding the lawyer mind, 613 00:27:53,890 --> 00:27:56,450 and then they'll take a little bit of risk, and then a little 614 00:27:56,450 --> 00:27:58,769 bit more, and then a little bit more proof. 615 00:27:58,930 --> 00:28:01,009 They gotta have proof, like right. 616 00:28:01,250 --> 00:28:02,289 I don't fight that. 617 00:28:02,529 --> 00:28:05,890 I show them proof, but it's so much fun actually because it's a 618 00:28:05,890 --> 00:28:09,650 challenge and it's made me grow in my skills. 619 00:28:09,809 --> 00:28:13,329 Like I look back and go, wow, I I still don't know anything. 620 00:28:13,410 --> 00:28:14,370 That's my attitude. 621 00:28:15,170 --> 00:28:18,769 SPEAKER_01: But they it must be rewarding to see someone come 622 00:28:18,769 --> 00:28:22,450 through some big challenges and go, I really needed that. 623 00:28:22,849 --> 00:28:25,250 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the best reward is when they don't need 624 00:28:25,250 --> 00:28:25,970 me anymore. 625 00:28:26,210 --> 00:28:29,890 Yeah, it's I had one client say to me one we worked together two 626 00:28:29,890 --> 00:28:32,930 years, and he said, Your business model is not the best 627 00:28:32,930 --> 00:28:37,329 for revenue and ongoing revenue because you make yourself 628 00:28:37,329 --> 00:28:38,609 irrelevant. 629 00:28:38,930 --> 00:28:39,890 And I said, Yes. 630 00:28:40,370 --> 00:28:41,650 That's what a good coach does. 631 00:28:43,970 --> 00:28:46,210 I'm not here for the rest of your life or career. 632 00:28:46,370 --> 00:28:50,769 I'm here to part what I've learned from myself and from my 633 00:28:50,769 --> 00:28:54,450 clients, help you avoid the mistakes, the costly mistakes, 634 00:28:54,529 --> 00:28:57,170 the stressful mistakes, the mistakes that keep you from 635 00:28:57,170 --> 00:29:02,450 reaching your goals, or can he seriously lengthening the 636 00:29:02,450 --> 00:29:03,970 process at the very least. 637 00:29:04,130 --> 00:29:04,849 That's my goal. 638 00:29:05,009 --> 00:29:07,569 And so when you're that's my job, my role. 639 00:29:07,730 --> 00:29:10,289 So when you're at a point where, and it's like we can both feel 640 00:29:10,289 --> 00:29:10,450 it. 641 00:29:10,609 --> 00:29:12,849 The client and I can both feel that it's hey, you're ready to 642 00:29:12,849 --> 00:29:12,930 go. 643 00:29:13,170 --> 00:29:14,130 SPEAKER_01: Kind of we're done here. 644 00:29:14,210 --> 00:29:14,370 Yeah. 645 00:29:14,849 --> 00:29:17,490 SPEAKER_02: Check in, shoot me an email, keep in touch. 646 00:29:17,569 --> 00:29:18,450 I'll reach out to you. 647 00:29:18,529 --> 00:29:21,809 I want to see where this goes because I love to see from the 648 00:29:21,809 --> 00:29:28,210 very first client who two years later, I guess he was around 40. 649 00:29:28,609 --> 00:29:31,569 Two years after we worked together, he became the number 650 00:29:31,569 --> 00:29:35,410 one income earner at the 100-year-old litigation firm. 651 00:29:35,650 --> 00:29:36,049 Wow. 652 00:29:36,289 --> 00:29:39,490 The biggest file the client that firm had ever brought in. 653 00:29:39,730 --> 00:29:42,049 We're gonna do a secondary launch in Vancouver. 654 00:29:42,210 --> 00:29:45,410 He has endorsed the book, so there's some full circle going 655 00:29:45,410 --> 00:29:45,569 on. 656 00:29:45,809 --> 00:29:48,289 Yeah, it's a it's an amazing way to make a living. 657 00:29:48,450 --> 00:29:50,289 And people will go, why lawyers? 658 00:29:50,370 --> 00:29:54,370 And I'm like, it just I stumbled into it from my background, and 659 00:29:54,609 --> 00:29:56,130 they really do need help. 660 00:29:56,370 --> 00:29:59,730 And the people that I work with are outstanding human beings, 661 00:29:59,890 --> 00:30:02,690 making a contribution in their communities, making a 662 00:30:02,690 --> 00:30:05,730 contribution as entrepreneurs, small business, right? 663 00:30:05,890 --> 00:30:09,650 In North America, small business accounts for what 80% of it's 664 00:30:09,650 --> 00:30:10,609 something very high, right? 665 00:30:11,250 --> 00:30:14,930 So I'm happy to be working with all entrepreneurs that are 666 00:30:14,930 --> 00:30:17,009 making impact in the world, right? 667 00:30:17,410 --> 00:30:18,049 SPEAKER_01: Agreed. 668 00:30:18,210 --> 00:30:21,170 And again, the name of your book, The And Approach. 669 00:30:21,410 --> 00:30:24,609 SPEAKER_02: The And Approach, how to grow your law firm and 670 00:30:24,609 --> 00:30:25,890 gain more freedom. 671 00:30:26,210 --> 00:30:26,930 SPEAKER_01: I love that. 672 00:30:27,089 --> 00:30:29,970 So I know that our listeners are gonna want to connect with you, 673 00:30:30,130 --> 00:30:31,890 reach out to you, uh, obviously get your book. 674 00:30:32,049 --> 00:30:33,970 Where would be the best place for them to do that? 675 00:30:34,289 --> 00:30:37,730 SPEAKER_02: The easiest place, Gary Mitchell on LinkedIn or my 676 00:30:37,730 --> 00:30:40,609 website, on trackcoach1word.com. 677 00:30:40,930 --> 00:30:41,650 SPEAKER_01: Okay, perfect. 678 00:30:41,730 --> 00:30:43,410 We'll make sure we have those in the show notes. 679 00:30:43,490 --> 00:30:45,809 And uh Gary, this has been a great conversation. 680 00:30:45,970 --> 00:30:47,250 I really appreciate your time today. 681 00:30:47,329 --> 00:30:50,210 And I hope people got a lot out of it and they pick up your book 682 00:30:50,210 --> 00:30:51,170 as soon as it's available. 683 00:30:51,250 --> 00:30:52,289 And it's available soon. 684 00:30:52,450 --> 00:30:54,769 SPEAKER_02: It is pre-sales announcement goes out next week, 685 00:30:54,930 --> 00:30:57,410 which is for viewers when this gets live. 686 00:30:57,490 --> 00:30:58,769 It's April 21st. 687 00:30:58,930 --> 00:31:00,370 Pre-sales go up go. 688 00:31:00,930 --> 00:31:01,490 SPEAKER_01: Fantastic. 689 00:31:01,650 --> 00:31:03,250 And that's the Marilyn. 690 00:31:03,569 --> 00:31:04,210 Thank you, Gary. 691 00:31:04,529 --> 00:31:07,250 That's a wrap on today's episode of the Leadership in Law 692 00:31:07,250 --> 00:31:07,650 Podcast. 693 00:31:07,730 --> 00:31:09,890 Before you go, I want to make sure that you know about 694 00:31:09,890 --> 00:31:12,450 something that could be a real game changer for your firm. 695 00:31:12,609 --> 00:31:15,410 If you've been doing the work, showing up, serving clients, but 696 00:31:15,410 --> 00:31:18,049 your marketing still isn't producing the caseload you know 697 00:31:18,049 --> 00:31:18,529 you deserve. 698 00:31:18,690 --> 00:31:21,490 That's exactly the problem Law Marketing Zone was built to 699 00:31:21,490 --> 00:31:21,730 solve. 700 00:31:21,890 --> 00:31:24,769 My team and I work exclusively with law firms, and we don't do 701 00:31:24,769 --> 00:31:25,650 cookie cutter. 702 00:31:25,730 --> 00:31:28,769 We build a strategy around your practice, your market, and your 703 00:31:28,769 --> 00:31:29,089 goals. 704 00:31:29,250 --> 00:31:33,170 More high-quality leads, better cases, less stress, and more 705 00:31:33,170 --> 00:31:33,490 profit. 706 00:31:33,650 --> 00:31:36,210 Head over to LawmarketingZone.com/slash book 707 00:31:36,289 --> 00:31:38,930 a call and book your free case growth session today. 708 00:31:39,089 --> 00:31:40,370 The link is in the show notes. 709 00:31:40,450 --> 00:31:43,329 Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next episode. 710 00:31:44,370 --> 00:31:46,769 SPEAKER_00: Thanks for joining us on another episode of the 711 00:31:46,769 --> 00:31:48,849 Leadership in Law Podcast. 712 00:31:49,170 --> 00:31:51,410 Remember, you're not alone on this journey. 713 00:31:51,569 --> 00:31:54,609 There's a whole community of law firm owners out there facing 714 00:31:54,609 --> 00:31:57,809 similar challenges and striving for the same success. 715 00:31:58,049 --> 00:32:02,210 Head over to our website at LawMarketingZone.com. 716 00:32:02,370 --> 00:32:05,569 From there, connect with other listeners, access valuable 717 00:32:05,569 --> 00:32:09,170 resources, and stay up to date on the latest episodes. 718 00:32:09,650 --> 00:32:12,769 Don't forget to subscribe and leave us to review on your 719 00:32:12,769 --> 00:32:14,289 favorite podcast platform. 720 00:32:14,529 --> 00:32:18,609 Until next time, keep leading with vision and keep growing 721 00:32:18,609 --> 00:32:19,329 your firm.