S04E158 Navigating Complex Life Insurance Claims with Stephanie Prestridge

1 00:00:52,480 --> 00:00:55,280 SPEAKER_00: The Leadership in Law Podcast to start to equip 2 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:58,880 you with the knowledge and tools you need to build a successful 3 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:00,880 and fulfilling legal practice. 4 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:13,679 SPEAKER_02: Welcome to another episode of the Leadership in Law 5 00:01:13,679 --> 00:01:14,079 Podcast. 6 00:01:14,159 --> 00:01:15,920 I'm your host, Marilyn Jenkins. 7 00:01:16,079 --> 00:01:18,799 Please join me in welcoming my guest, Stephanie Prestridge, to 8 00:01:18,799 --> 00:01:19,439 the show today. 9 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,719 Stephanie is the founder of Lineage Law, an estate planning 10 00:01:22,719 --> 00:01:24,879 firm serving families across Louisiana. 11 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:27,040 Stephanie's work is deeply personal. 12 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:30,239 After seeing firsthand how quickly families can be forced 13 00:01:30,239 --> 00:01:33,680 into difficult decisions when a loved one becomes ill, shifted 14 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:36,560 her focus to helping families plan ahead with clarity and 15 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:37,200 intention. 16 00:01:37,439 --> 00:01:40,239 As her practice grew, she noticed something troubling. 17 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:43,519 Even families who had planned well were often left fighting to 18 00:01:43,519 --> 00:01:46,159 receive the life insurance benefits that when they needed 19 00:01:46,159 --> 00:01:46,640 them most. 20 00:01:46,799 --> 00:01:50,560 That led her to co-found Life Claim, where she helps families 21 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:54,239 navigate complex life insurance disputes and secure the benefits 22 00:01:54,239 --> 00:01:55,040 they were promised. 23 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:58,159 With a background in litigation and a passion for prevention and 24 00:01:58,159 --> 00:02:01,280 advocacy, Stephanie brings a practical, compassionate 25 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:03,840 approach to helping families protect what matters most. 26 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:05,519 I'm excited to have you here, Stephanie. 27 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:06,079 Welcome. 28 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:06,799 SPEAKER_01: Great. 29 00:02:06,879 --> 00:02:07,600 Thank you so much. 30 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:09,280 I appreciate the introduction. 31 00:02:09,599 --> 00:02:10,079 SPEAKER_02: Absolutely. 32 00:02:10,239 --> 00:02:12,319 So tell us a bit about your journey. 33 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:16,159 SPEAKER_01: It was uh I have to give my grandmother, I call her 34 00:02:16,159 --> 00:02:19,119 Mama, I have to give her all the credit, and she's proud to take 35 00:02:19,119 --> 00:02:19,839 all the credit. 36 00:02:20,079 --> 00:02:24,239 I went to law school and got a great job straight out of school 37 00:02:24,239 --> 00:02:28,000 doing international trade defense and maritime defense and 38 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:29,039 was working there. 39 00:02:29,119 --> 00:02:31,359 And I actually got a call from my grandmother one day. 40 00:02:31,599 --> 00:02:35,839 Mama called to tell me that Papa had Parkinson's and she said, 41 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:37,439 What are we going to do? 42 00:02:37,679 --> 00:02:40,959 And and it's really, you always tell everybody I can still feel 43 00:02:40,959 --> 00:02:42,719 that moment because I can know what it's like. 44 00:02:42,799 --> 00:02:44,879 I know where I was sitting, I know what I was wearing. 45 00:02:45,039 --> 00:02:49,119 I had the wall of windows behind me and a very traditional New 46 00:02:49,119 --> 00:02:49,519 Orleans. 47 00:02:49,599 --> 00:02:50,959 You could see the Mississippi River. 48 00:02:51,039 --> 00:02:54,559 And then in front of me was the wall of every award and gold 49 00:02:54,559 --> 00:02:57,599 star I had ever earned because I might forget someday. 50 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:02,079 And I just remember looking at that wall of all these awards, 51 00:03:02,239 --> 00:03:05,359 thinking, I don't have a clue how to answer her question. 52 00:03:05,679 --> 00:03:09,439 Because when she said, Papa has Parkinson's, what are we going 53 00:03:09,439 --> 00:03:10,079 to do? 54 00:03:10,399 --> 00:03:12,559 My first answer was, Mama, I'll call mom. 55 00:03:12,879 --> 00:03:13,679 She's the nurse. 56 00:03:13,839 --> 00:03:16,959 She will tell you all the best doctors in the facilities and 57 00:03:16,959 --> 00:03:18,000 all of those things. 58 00:03:18,239 --> 00:03:21,839 And Mama very quickly put me on my place and she said, I didn't 59 00:03:21,839 --> 00:03:22,879 ask you where we go. 60 00:03:23,039 --> 00:03:25,199 I asked you, what are we going to do? 61 00:03:25,439 --> 00:03:26,559 And I didn't know. 62 00:03:26,719 --> 00:03:27,839 I didn't know. 63 00:03:28,079 --> 00:03:31,519 And ultimately, I ended up moving home to help take care of 64 00:03:31,519 --> 00:03:32,479 my grandparents. 65 00:03:32,719 --> 00:03:36,719 And I drove their estate lawyer so crazy that he gave me a job. 66 00:03:36,879 --> 00:03:38,399 And I was so appreciative for that. 67 00:03:38,479 --> 00:03:39,839 Still am appreciative for that. 68 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,799 And we had very different perspectives as I was working 69 00:03:42,799 --> 00:03:46,399 there because I started sitting on the side of the table with my 70 00:03:46,399 --> 00:03:49,919 grandmother instead of sitting on the table just as a lawyer. 71 00:03:50,079 --> 00:03:52,479 And it shouldn't have been, I guess it shouldn't have been 72 00:03:52,479 --> 00:03:55,359 that profound, but it really was because all of a sudden I was 73 00:03:55,359 --> 00:03:58,159 watching this person that was the strongest woman I ever knew 74 00:03:58,319 --> 00:04:00,319 who was suddenly scared and small. 75 00:04:00,559 --> 00:04:04,239 And it changed how I handled my practice and how I handled 76 00:04:04,239 --> 00:04:05,280 estate matters. 77 00:04:05,439 --> 00:04:09,919 And when I went out on my own to create lineage, it was with that 78 00:04:09,919 --> 00:04:14,079 in mind that I wanted to work with my clients differently and 79 00:04:14,079 --> 00:04:16,160 I wanted to work with their advisors differently. 80 00:04:16,399 --> 00:04:19,680 And so we built this beautiful practice based on that 81 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:21,839 experience with my grandmother. 82 00:04:22,079 --> 00:04:24,720 And we were actually spreading across the state. 83 00:04:24,959 --> 00:04:28,560 And I had a client come in who was doing an estate plan. 84 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:31,120 We knew that the spouse was going to pass away. 85 00:04:31,439 --> 00:04:34,879 Built a plan on the life insurance that they had in place 86 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:36,960 because we were going to need every dime. 87 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:39,680 And then had all of that ready to go. 88 00:04:39,759 --> 00:04:41,360 It was a beautiful, easy plan. 89 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:46,080 And when I got the call that the spouse had passed, I asked, Have 90 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:47,840 you already received the life insurance? 91 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:48,720 Have you made the claim? 92 00:04:48,879 --> 00:04:49,680 Have you gotten the money? 93 00:04:49,840 --> 00:04:51,520 Have you put it in the account? 94 00:04:51,840 --> 00:04:56,640 And the answer was, funny enough, we got this letter that 95 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:58,400 said they're not going to pay. 96 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,600 And they sent a check returning our premiums. 97 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:05,520 And that was the same exact feeling I had when my 98 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:07,840 grandmother told me, I didn't ask you where we go. 99 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:09,759 I asked you what are we going to do. 100 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:15,840 It was the same just moment of, oh my gosh, because that doesn't 101 00:05:15,840 --> 00:05:17,280 happen, right? 102 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:21,360 You pay your premiums, you have this in place, you had it there 103 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:25,040 for a purpose, you did what you were supposed to do, and it's 104 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:26,240 supposed to pay. 105 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:26,879 unknown: Right. 106 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:30,720 SPEAKER_01: And yeah, and not only was I shocked because I had 107 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:32,879 no idea that could happen, I'm an oddity. 108 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:35,040 I like to, I love life insurance. 109 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:35,759 I believe in it. 110 00:05:35,840 --> 00:05:39,199 Like I buy life insurance like some women buy shoes because I 111 00:05:39,199 --> 00:05:40,160 use it to invest. 112 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:43,439 I have policies on my children, so they never have to have their 113 00:05:43,439 --> 00:05:43,680 own. 114 00:05:43,840 --> 00:05:48,319 Like that's I like to use that product for my investments. 115 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:49,439 That's what I do. 116 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:53,360 And so it was that moment of, oh my gosh, wait a second. 117 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:54,879 That doesn't happen. 118 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:58,080 And oh my gosh, if it does happen, what have I done? 119 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,600 And my husband and I are all partners together, and he's a 120 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:03,920 little more scrappy than me because I'm busy picking my chin 121 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:04,480 up off the ground. 122 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:05,759 And he's this is wrong. 123 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:07,199 I'm not okay with this. 124 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:11,120 And he told our client, he was, would you allow me to see if I 125 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:11,680 can do something? 126 00:06:11,759 --> 00:06:13,520 And my client, of course, yes. 127 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:14,240 SPEAKER_02: Absolutely. 128 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:18,640 SPEAKER_01: Um so I was busy trying to scurry and figure out 129 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:20,640 what we were going to do with this estate. 130 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:24,879 And I had unbeknownst to me, my husband's waging war on this 131 00:06:24,879 --> 00:06:25,360 policy. 132 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:30,800 And what was so crazy is I remember the day that he gets 133 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:32,240 this letter from the insurance company. 134 00:06:32,319 --> 00:06:33,600 It's a three-page letter. 135 00:06:33,759 --> 00:06:38,240 And in that letter, they they say not very nice things, but 136 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:42,319 they include a check for the full amount of the policy. 137 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:46,000 And they called him everything you could think of without using 138 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:47,120 actual four-letter words. 139 00:06:47,280 --> 00:06:48,720 It was really impressive, actually. 140 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:51,920 But he actually opens up our conference room door, walks 141 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:53,920 straight into a meeting I'm having with somebody else. 142 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:56,879 He's holding up that check in that letter, and he says, I will 143 00:06:56,879 --> 00:06:59,520 never write another estate plan because if this is happening to 144 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:01,759 our clients, it's happening more than we realized. 145 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:06,240 And he started a new business that day because he was not okay 146 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:06,640 with it. 147 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:08,160 And I wasn't okay with it. 148 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,280 But I had had my business that was building and growing, and I 149 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:11,840 loved it. 150 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:16,240 And what I found over the years is that it was it was happening 151 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:17,520 so much more than we realized. 152 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,240 And his business was growing and growing to the point that he 153 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:22,560 finally came in and he said, You love your people. 154 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:25,280 I need you to come help me handle these cases. 155 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:26,720 And that's what we've done. 156 00:07:26,879 --> 00:07:29,920 And it's just been an incredible practice. 157 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,240 Because we love what we're doing and we believe in it and we love 158 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:33,840 our clients and we really love each other. 159 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:35,360 So it's fun to work together. 160 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:37,520 But it's heartbreaking too, right? 161 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:40,640 Because it's heartbreaking because nobody knows that this 162 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:41,199 happens. 163 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,000 SPEAKER_02: Uh no, you pay your premiums, you expect the payoff 164 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:44,720 when this happens. 165 00:07:44,879 --> 00:07:48,319 How does how well without breaking any confidentiality? 166 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:49,759 What was the reason for replying? 167 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:51,840 For just giving back the premiums. 168 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:54,960 SPEAKER_01: So, and that one, that policy was still in the 169 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:56,640 two-year contestability period. 170 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:59,040 And this is one of those things that nobody really knows about. 171 00:07:59,199 --> 00:08:02,640 I don't know if people just forget about it when you go get 172 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:06,080 a policy, but every time you get a life insurance policy for the 173 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:09,360 first two years after you get it, if you pass away within 174 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:13,520 those first two years, then they have the right upon your passing 175 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:17,680 to go back and recheck all of your medical records to make 176 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,560 sure what they have really wanted to issue that policy. 177 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:22,480 And it doesn't matter what you died from. 178 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:26,400 So to really put an extreme example, I have lots of lots of 179 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:29,680 cases where someone passes in the first two years of these 180 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:31,920 policies and they were murdered. 181 00:08:32,319 --> 00:08:35,439 And it doesn't matter because there's obviously no health 182 00:08:35,439 --> 00:08:36,559 condition for murder, right? 183 00:08:37,039 --> 00:08:39,039 It's not a pre-existing condition. 184 00:08:39,439 --> 00:08:44,719 But they will still go back and check as far back as they can, 185 00:08:44,879 --> 00:08:48,159 all of these medical records to see would we have really wanted 186 00:08:48,159 --> 00:08:50,879 to issue this policy because you died within the first two years 187 00:08:50,959 --> 00:08:53,759 and we're so sorry it was by murder, but we're still gonna go 188 00:08:53,759 --> 00:08:56,479 back and see did you have, did you smoke cigarettes and not 189 00:08:56,479 --> 00:08:58,959 tell us to do all of these things because we probably 190 00:08:58,959 --> 00:09:00,000 wouldn't have issued it. 191 00:09:00,159 --> 00:09:03,839 It's an opportunity for them to not pay the claim, basically. 192 00:09:04,639 --> 00:09:08,240 And the paperwork is so overwhelming for a lot of 193 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:11,120 families on that because they paid their premiums, they're 194 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,599 thinking this policy is gonna pay, and now they're getting a 195 00:09:13,599 --> 00:09:16,959 letter saying we're so sorry for your loss, but it's a two-year 196 00:09:16,959 --> 00:09:18,079 contestability period. 197 00:09:18,159 --> 00:09:22,240 We need you to sign all of these forms so that we can check with 198 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:26,000 doctors or my favorite is we need you to sign all these forms 199 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,120 and go get the medical records, which by the way, no, they do 200 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:29,279 not. 201 00:09:29,519 --> 00:09:30,399 No, they do not. 202 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:33,279 They can sign the form, but they do not have to go get those 203 00:09:33,279 --> 00:09:34,240 records for you. 204 00:09:34,479 --> 00:09:36,879 But it's a game of attrition, right? 205 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:40,639 Because at some point, people just give up because they're 206 00:09:40,639 --> 00:09:44,959 grieving, they're exhausted, sometimes they're just without 207 00:09:44,959 --> 00:09:45,839 financial means. 208 00:09:45,919 --> 00:09:48,559 And you have an insurance company saying, Yeah, could you 209 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:49,599 go get these records for us? 210 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:50,959 We'd really appreciate it if you did. 211 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:54,959 Which by the way, there's a cost in doing that and time. 212 00:09:55,599 --> 00:09:57,919 And it's just, it's heartbreaking. 213 00:09:58,000 --> 00:09:58,719 It's heartbreaking. 214 00:09:58,799 --> 00:10:02,399 And I've seen it happen on anything from a$10,000 claim to 215 00:10:02,399 --> 00:10:04,399 a$150,000 claim. 216 00:10:04,479 --> 00:10:06,959 And it's just, it bothers me. 217 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:08,240 SPEAKER_02: I don't blame you. 218 00:10:08,639 --> 00:10:11,759 You do what they ask and you pay the fees, and then all of a 219 00:10:11,759 --> 00:10:12,959 sudden they decide that no. 220 00:10:13,919 --> 00:10:16,079 SPEAKER_01: And look, I don't want to vilify insurance 221 00:10:16,079 --> 00:10:16,799 companies. 222 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:19,199 My husband would, but I it's not my style. 223 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:20,399 But I I get it. 224 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:21,839 I get the business end of this. 225 00:10:21,919 --> 00:10:22,479 I really do. 226 00:10:22,639 --> 00:10:25,279 And there are people who just flat out lie. 227 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:26,399 They do. 228 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,599 And I respect the need to do their job. 229 00:10:29,759 --> 00:10:32,879 I don't respect how they're doing this job. 230 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:36,399 I actually have a case where, in fact, I've got the form right 231 00:10:36,399 --> 00:10:39,360 here in front of me, that someone passed away, had the 232 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:45,120 policy for 10 years, sent a form to the grieving spouse for them 233 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:46,319 to sign off on something. 234 00:10:46,399 --> 00:10:49,120 And in that form, they agreed. 235 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,479 If you go read the little teeny tiny print, like if you sign 236 00:10:52,479 --> 00:10:55,120 this, you're agreeing that they have the right to go back and 237 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,120 check all of these medical records. 238 00:10:57,279 --> 00:10:57,839 SPEAKER_02: Oh no. 239 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,240 SPEAKER_01: You're outside that two-year contestability period. 240 00:11:00,399 --> 00:11:01,279 What are you thinking? 241 00:11:01,519 --> 00:11:01,839 No. 242 00:11:02,079 --> 00:11:05,439 So they're tricking people into opening that door for them. 243 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:09,919 We've had cases where someone has passed away, and then 244 00:11:09,919 --> 00:11:12,240 somebody from the insurance company will call them. 245 00:11:12,399 --> 00:11:14,879 And it's like they're trying to help them start that claim. 246 00:11:15,039 --> 00:11:19,919 And we all have this internal need to be helpful and to be 247 00:11:19,919 --> 00:11:20,240 kind. 248 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:23,279 And so when they're calling and they're asking all of these 249 00:11:23,279 --> 00:11:26,159 questions, and gosh, man, how is Bill doing? 250 00:11:26,319 --> 00:11:28,319 Man, just what was going on the past two years? 251 00:11:28,399 --> 00:11:30,639 And you start, man, it's just really stressful. 252 00:11:30,799 --> 00:11:33,120 I think he picked up a cigarette and started smoking again. 253 00:11:33,199 --> 00:11:34,479 We just had a lot going on. 254 00:11:34,719 --> 00:11:36,479 You know what that person on the phone is doing? 255 00:11:36,719 --> 00:11:37,120 Making notes. 256 00:11:37,599 --> 00:11:38,159 Taking notes. 257 00:11:38,639 --> 00:11:40,479 That's exactly what they're doing. 258 00:11:40,719 --> 00:11:45,439 And I have one case right now, this wonderful mom who was like, 259 00:11:45,599 --> 00:11:46,799 My son passed away. 260 00:11:46,959 --> 00:11:50,000 This person was calling me from the insurance company saying 261 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:50,959 they were helping me. 262 00:11:51,199 --> 00:11:54,479 And when I tried to call back, they won't take my calls 263 00:11:54,479 --> 00:11:55,039 anymore. 264 00:11:55,599 --> 00:11:58,399 They won't talk to me anymore because now they're gonna go get 265 00:11:58,399 --> 00:11:59,360 all these medical records. 266 00:11:59,439 --> 00:12:00,959 And we had this policy four years. 267 00:12:01,039 --> 00:12:02,319 Why are they doing that? 268 00:12:03,839 --> 00:12:05,519 Because they called and talked to you. 269 00:12:05,759 --> 00:12:06,079 SPEAKER_02: Yeah. 270 00:12:06,639 --> 00:12:07,279 Heartbreaking. 271 00:12:07,839 --> 00:12:10,879 I know that periodically through life you'll buy a whole life 272 00:12:10,879 --> 00:12:13,279 insurance policy or a term life insurance policy. 273 00:12:13,519 --> 00:12:16,079 What are some of the most common misconceptions that people have 274 00:12:16,079 --> 00:12:19,199 about life insurance and how does it fit with what you're 275 00:12:19,199 --> 00:12:19,439 doing? 276 00:12:19,599 --> 00:12:23,199 And obviously in an estate plan, you plan it, but then life claim 277 00:12:23,199 --> 00:12:25,039 needs to get involved when something goes wrong. 278 00:12:25,439 --> 00:12:29,839 SPEAKER_01: We focus exclusively on on life insurance death 279 00:12:29,839 --> 00:12:30,159 claims. 280 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:34,639 So when somebody passes away and the insurance company is denying 281 00:12:34,639 --> 00:12:36,399 or delaying those payments. 282 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:39,919 So there's a lot of misconceptions just on just like 283 00:12:39,919 --> 00:12:42,879 I had that we paid our premiums, it's just gonna pay. 284 00:12:42,959 --> 00:12:45,519 What do you mean they have to go investigate or they have to go 285 00:12:45,519 --> 00:12:46,319 do these things? 286 00:12:46,479 --> 00:12:48,719 So there's a lot of confusion on that. 287 00:12:48,959 --> 00:12:52,799 There's a lot of confusion on who gets what with these 288 00:12:52,799 --> 00:12:53,279 policies. 289 00:12:53,439 --> 00:12:57,120 And you have the person who's the insured, you have the owner 290 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:59,839 of the policy, and you have the beneficiary. 291 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:05,120 And it's it's a practical Reddit line of stories because like you 292 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:08,079 can see where somebody says, wait, I paid that premium, but 293 00:13:08,079 --> 00:13:09,360 you didn't own the policy. 294 00:13:09,599 --> 00:13:11,199 Doesn't matter that you paid the premium. 295 00:13:11,279 --> 00:13:13,759 That was nice of you, but it didn't give you any ownership 296 00:13:13,759 --> 00:13:15,199 rights over that policy. 297 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:17,839 So just because you help pay for something doesn't necessarily 298 00:13:17,839 --> 00:13:19,360 mean you're the beneficiary. 299 00:13:19,599 --> 00:13:24,159 A lot of confusion and and beneficiary designations as 300 00:13:24,159 --> 00:13:28,399 versus how does my will or my trust handle my estate? 301 00:13:28,479 --> 00:13:31,199 Because my will says give everything to my kids, but the 302 00:13:31,199 --> 00:13:33,839 beneficiary of my life insurance policy is my next door neighbor 303 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:34,639 in the church. 304 00:13:34,879 --> 00:13:37,919 Well, how come my will does does my will cover that? 305 00:13:38,079 --> 00:13:38,879 No, it doesn't. 306 00:13:39,199 --> 00:13:40,879 SPEAKER_02: No, I thought they were two separate things. 307 00:13:41,039 --> 00:13:42,319 Just like you're very different things. 308 00:13:42,719 --> 00:13:46,000 If you've set up beneficiaries, that doesn't necessarily play 309 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:46,559 along with the will. 310 00:13:46,639 --> 00:13:47,679 They're completely separate. 311 00:13:47,919 --> 00:13:48,879 SPEAKER_01: That's exactly right. 312 00:13:48,959 --> 00:13:50,159 But not everyone knows that. 313 00:13:50,319 --> 00:13:54,240 I cannot tell you how many times I've heard the well, my will 314 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:55,039 says this. 315 00:13:55,439 --> 00:13:56,479 My will says it. 316 00:13:56,639 --> 00:14:00,240 I have, and just to really put it in perspective, because I 317 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:03,679 have a client that is a retired cardiac surgeon. 318 00:14:03,919 --> 00:14:09,759 Brilliant, brilliant, brought me a will that says I amended it to 319 00:14:09,759 --> 00:14:12,959 say that my my children get my Roth IRA. 320 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:14,639 It's like it doesn't work like that. 321 00:14:14,959 --> 00:14:16,000 It doesn't work like that. 322 00:14:16,159 --> 00:14:18,000 Like you are brilliant. 323 00:14:18,319 --> 00:14:22,000 And just the mechanics of the paperwork and the designations 324 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:26,000 and how they work with each other, it's not, it's not just 325 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:27,679 one person that makes that mistake. 326 00:14:27,759 --> 00:14:29,279 It's a it's all across the board. 327 00:14:29,439 --> 00:14:31,279 It doesn't matter what your profession is, what your 328 00:14:31,279 --> 00:14:31,759 education is. 329 00:14:31,919 --> 00:14:34,319 Like there is significant confusion about that. 330 00:14:34,479 --> 00:14:35,839 And it's heartbreaking. 331 00:14:36,079 --> 00:14:40,000 It's very hard for people to understand that keeping that 332 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,559 updated is important, paying attention to when you get 333 00:14:42,559 --> 00:14:45,919 divorced because sometimes it's automatically revoked, sometimes 334 00:14:45,919 --> 00:14:50,719 it isn't, and that the rules with regard to your personal 335 00:14:50,719 --> 00:14:54,079 policies are very different from the rules that apply to your 336 00:14:54,399 --> 00:14:56,319 employee benefits policies. 337 00:14:56,559 --> 00:14:59,519 The time is clock is always ticking, the rules are different 338 00:14:59,519 --> 00:15:02,879 for how you appeal, what your rights are, what your record can 339 00:15:02,879 --> 00:15:03,120 be. 340 00:15:03,279 --> 00:15:06,879 It's overwhelming and it's it's sad because so many people are 341 00:15:06,879 --> 00:15:10,079 trying to do it on their own, especially with AI. 342 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:14,559 SPEAKER_02: Um, I think when we think about with wheels, we just 343 00:15:14,559 --> 00:15:16,879 think if we write it down, it's gonna happen because the wheel 344 00:15:16,879 --> 00:15:18,079 is your last will and testament. 345 00:15:18,479 --> 00:15:21,360 Not thinking that these beneficiaries are already set up 346 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:23,839 in in the separate places. 347 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:24,399 Right. 348 00:15:25,039 --> 00:15:28,000 SPEAKER_01: And again, for me, it's like a paperwork chess 349 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:28,559 match, right? 350 00:15:28,719 --> 00:15:30,000 It's to me, it's a puzzle. 351 00:15:30,079 --> 00:15:32,559 You have all these pieces of paper, and maybe it's just 352 00:15:32,559 --> 00:15:33,519 because we're lawyers, right? 353 00:15:33,599 --> 00:15:35,919 We like paper, so we like to have tiles of it everywhere. 354 00:15:36,319 --> 00:15:39,279 Most people get overwhelmed by that, and I don't blame them. 355 00:15:39,519 --> 00:15:44,000 And then not every person sits down and says, this is how this 356 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,959 piece of paper fits with this piece of paper. 357 00:15:47,199 --> 00:15:49,360 And this piece of paper is a life insurance policy. 358 00:15:49,439 --> 00:15:52,000 And by the way, this piece of paper over here is also a life 359 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,919 insurance policy, but this is through work and this is your 360 00:15:55,919 --> 00:15:58,399 personal policy, and they're completely different, even 361 00:15:58,399 --> 00:16:00,959 though they're both called life insurance policies, even though 362 00:16:00,959 --> 00:16:04,639 they both have a benefit when you pass, how they work and how 363 00:16:04,639 --> 00:16:06,879 the rules apply are completely different. 364 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,159 Nobody sits you down and tells you that. 365 00:16:10,399 --> 00:16:13,919 And so now when you're having to deal with it when someone has 366 00:16:13,919 --> 00:16:18,240 passed away and you're grieving, and maybe you need that money, 367 00:16:18,399 --> 00:16:21,759 or now you've got all of these unresolved relationships that 368 00:16:21,759 --> 00:16:23,919 are suddenly death and money change people. 369 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:27,199 So now you've got grief and now you've got paperwork that you 370 00:16:27,199 --> 00:16:28,959 don't know how it all works together. 371 00:16:29,279 --> 00:16:30,719 It's a lot to take in. 372 00:16:30,879 --> 00:16:33,279 And I think that's why I'm so passionate about what I do, 373 00:16:33,519 --> 00:16:37,120 because it's so hard, and it's people don't know that they can 374 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:37,519 get help. 375 00:16:37,599 --> 00:16:40,240 Like they didn't know that there are people out here who focused 376 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:41,759 just on that to be able to help them. 377 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:44,159 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was surprised when we met, and you 378 00:16:44,159 --> 00:16:46,959 do such an amazing job to help people understand that. 379 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:50,799 If how should people, how should families be thinking about life 380 00:16:50,799 --> 00:16:54,319 insurance and thinking about the pitfalls that could happen as a 381 00:16:54,319 --> 00:16:57,360 part of a broader strategy to protect their loved ones? 382 00:16:57,839 --> 00:17:01,279 SPEAKER_01: So the first thing is if you have it, make sure 383 00:17:01,279 --> 00:17:02,559 someone knows, right? 384 00:17:02,799 --> 00:17:07,759 I it calls all the time of I think mom or dad or mom and dad 385 00:17:07,759 --> 00:17:08,480 had this policy. 386 00:17:08,799 --> 00:17:09,680 They talked about it. 387 00:17:09,839 --> 00:17:11,200 Where do I go find it? 388 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:14,720 I can do a lot of things, but I can't go find it for you. 389 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:17,840 And there's a resource out there, but it's not automatic. 390 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:20,960 It could take six to eight weeks if you have the information you 391 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:22,400 need to do the right search. 392 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,519 So my best recommendation is tell somebody. 393 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,160 And you don't have to give them all the details of your life. 394 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:30,800 If you don't want them to know who the beneficiaries are or 395 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:34,560 anything, just let somebody know, hey, I have this policy or 396 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,840 hey, it's through work, or it's in the filing cabinet. 397 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:39,200 I have it, it's here. 398 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:41,600 When something happens, I just need you to know where to go 399 00:17:41,759 --> 00:17:42,000 look. 400 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:43,279 That is such a gift. 401 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:45,920 To have it is a gift, and then to have somebody who knows where 402 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:47,600 to go is also a gift. 403 00:17:47,759 --> 00:17:47,920 SPEAKER_02: Yeah. 404 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:50,960 SPEAKER_01: I would encourage families to make sure it always 405 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,120 says what you want because people forget about it. 406 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:55,200 It's kind of like they forget about their wills, right? 407 00:17:55,360 --> 00:17:58,240 They'll call you 15 years down the road, kids are grown, and we 408 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:00,480 still got a will that accounts for five-year-olds. 409 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,519 But you look at it and make sure that's still what you want 410 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:07,759 because sometimes like you get divorced, uh, does your state 411 00:18:07,759 --> 00:18:10,080 have a revocation by divorce law? 412 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:14,000 Did you mean to leave your spouse there or what was the 413 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:14,400 rules? 414 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:15,360 How does that work? 415 00:18:15,519 --> 00:18:18,320 And it's very different with your work policy on if you get 416 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:20,720 divorced, doesn't automatically revoke it all the time. 417 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:23,039 Pay attention to what you want. 418 00:18:23,279 --> 00:18:28,240 Then also where they're new members to the family, or or do 419 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:30,400 you have somebody that's maybe not in a good place where 420 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:31,440 they're not good with money? 421 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:32,960 Do your kids fight? 422 00:18:33,120 --> 00:18:35,840 You know, pay attention to that because if they do, you know 423 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:37,519 what they're gonna fight over when you're gone? 424 00:18:37,759 --> 00:18:38,080 SPEAKER_02: Money. 425 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:39,920 SPEAKER_01: The life insurance every time. 426 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:41,840 And because that's the free money, right? 427 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:44,800 Make sure that there's just enough information for somebody 428 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:47,759 to know what you have, where to go, and make sure that you pay 429 00:18:47,759 --> 00:18:50,720 attention to it because even though it's not money in your 430 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:54,960 pocket, it's money that you pocketed away for somebody 431 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:56,240 else's benefit. 432 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:58,960 And you didn't have that to create a fight. 433 00:18:59,120 --> 00:19:02,640 You were doing it with a purpose to take care of your family. 434 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:06,560 And then the other thing I would tell people is that know you 435 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:08,000 have the right to challenge it. 436 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:12,320 Know that if something doesn't seem right, that you have the 437 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:14,720 right to call the insurance company and say, wait, something 438 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:15,519 seems wrong here. 439 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:19,920 But we've got, I've got a case where someone passed away and it 440 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:25,279 failed to change a beneficiary from an ex-boyfriend from like 441 00:19:25,519 --> 00:19:26,480 years ago. 442 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,840 And the parents call me up and they're like, wait, wait, what 443 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:30,240 do we do? 444 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:32,720 And I was like, I don't know if we can win, but you have the 445 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:33,440 right to challenge it. 446 00:19:33,519 --> 00:19:36,240 You have the right to call and say, hey, wait, this doesn't 447 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:37,039 seem right. 448 00:19:37,360 --> 00:19:40,080 And no guarantee that you're gonna get what you want, but you 449 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:41,440 do have the right to make a challenge. 450 00:19:41,519 --> 00:19:42,480 And some people don't know that. 451 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,279 They're like, oh, I just have to, I just have to take it the 452 00:19:45,279 --> 00:19:45,920 way it is. 453 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,759 No, if you have a good basis to challenge, then can't guarantee 454 00:19:49,759 --> 00:19:52,720 you'll get what you want, but you can try at least to let them 455 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,759 know, wait, something's off here, or wait, I don't know if 456 00:19:55,759 --> 00:19:58,880 that person had capacity to make that change when it was 457 00:19:58,880 --> 00:19:59,360 submitted. 458 00:19:59,519 --> 00:20:03,600 Was there you have the right to say, I've got questions and see 459 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:04,560 what can be done. 460 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:08,560 You have the right to to talk to your family members about it and 461 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:09,920 ask them what they want done with it. 462 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:11,360 You know, is this for your funeral? 463 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:12,560 Is this to cover the house? 464 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:14,880 Does it mean that'll happen the way you want it to? 465 00:20:15,039 --> 00:20:18,160 But you have the right to ask a question and participate in 466 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:18,320 that. 467 00:20:19,039 --> 00:20:21,279 SPEAKER_02: I didn't realize you could actually challenge, so 468 00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:24,160 it's interesting, they can challenge you before payout, but 469 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:25,279 or your family. 470 00:20:25,519 --> 00:20:28,320 So yeah, it makes sense to be able to do that. 471 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:34,640 And do you find that these pardon me, the challenges bore 472 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:37,600 on term or on whole life insurance? 473 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:41,120 SPEAKER_01: I don't think that it's linked to one type or the 474 00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:41,279 other. 475 00:20:41,519 --> 00:20:45,120 The issues with the different types of insurance that I have 476 00:20:45,120 --> 00:20:49,759 seen are is when people call me and the insured hasn't died yet. 477 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:54,560 So every day I get two to three calls with I had this policy, 478 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:58,720 they told me I only had to pay so much, and now my premium's 479 00:20:58,800 --> 00:20:59,920 600% more. 480 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:01,039 I don't have that money. 481 00:21:01,279 --> 00:21:04,000 And then they're saying that I could cancel it, but I don't get 482 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:05,360 any of my money back. 483 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,960 And it breaks my heart because I have to explain to them that 484 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:13,680 when you got that policy, you were paying for the right to 485 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:14,880 have that policy. 486 00:21:15,120 --> 00:21:17,680 So it's like you're renting a policy, right? 487 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,200 And if you cancel it, no, you don't get that money back 488 00:21:21,360 --> 00:21:25,120 because during that period, you were covered by that policy. 489 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:26,400 So allegedly. 490 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:30,160 So if you cancel it, then no, they're not going to give you 491 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:30,800 that money back. 492 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:31,759 They're just not. 493 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:35,840 And I'm so sorry that someone didn't explain to you how the 494 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,039 financial mechanics of these policies work. 495 00:21:39,279 --> 00:21:42,640 It's just that hurts my heart on those because you've got these 496 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,920 financial tools that are basically hiding inside of a 497 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,680 life insurance policy, which is not always bad, but people don't 498 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,320 understand them and they don't understand the risks with them. 499 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,440 And you've had somebody who paid on something, literally some of 500 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:59,120 them for 20 years, and now they can't afford it anymore. 501 00:21:59,279 --> 00:22:01,759 Um, and they're like, they told me at some point it would pay 502 00:22:01,759 --> 00:22:04,880 for itself, but the cost of insurance has kept going up, and 503 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,680 the interest inside of the policy did not match the cost of 504 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:09,600 insurance, and so now you're having to pay. 505 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:13,440 More when you were expecting to be able to ride it out. 506 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,400 SPEAKER_02: And it just I had the same kind of thing with 507 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:16,800 whole life. 508 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:20,000 And it was just I think I paid for 10 years and then and it was 509 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,080 from my 30s to 40s. 510 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,680 And then all of a sudden you hit 45 and we're going to readdress 511 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:26,480 the amount. 512 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:27,279 Right. 513 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:31,120 And that wasn't whenever you got the policy, you weren't told 514 00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:33,600 that they were going to reevaluate the costs as you get 515 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:33,920 older. 516 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:37,759 SPEAKER_01: I always tell, again, I I like life insurance. 517 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:39,360 I like to have it as a resource. 518 00:22:39,519 --> 00:22:42,640 And so I have really large policies on my kids, but I got 519 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,120 it when they were first born because it's much, much cheaper 520 00:22:45,279 --> 00:22:48,480 than nothing like having to explain to someone that no, I do 521 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:50,080 not want to hurt my children. 522 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:51,440 I just want to have these policies. 523 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:53,279 It was a very awkward conversation. 524 00:22:53,519 --> 00:22:56,320 But for me, it was like, I don't know what the future holds. 525 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,920 And if they ever, God forbid, get sick or something happens to 526 00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:02,560 them, they may not always qualify for life insurance. 527 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:04,800 So my gift to them is to get it when they're young. 528 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,680 And I got the whole life policy so that it could have a cash 529 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:12,080 growth in there, hopefully, as they get older, so that at some 530 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,759 point if they wanted to use it to create an income stream for 531 00:23:15,759 --> 00:23:18,880 themselves or if they just never could get other coverage, it's 532 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:19,759 there for them. 533 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,720 But it made sense because they were itzy witsy. 534 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:27,279 And so I'm able to put enough into it to create um a benefit 535 00:23:27,279 --> 00:23:30,160 for them down the road that hopefully they never have to pay 536 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:30,320 for. 537 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,360 But when you look at our own policies that we got when we 538 00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:36,720 were old enough and able to afford that for ourselves, I get 539 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:36,880 it. 540 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,680 It's like all of a sudden the cost on that we weren't 541 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:40,080 expecting. 542 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:41,840 You know, we thought it was set in stone for a while. 543 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:42,240 Yeah. 544 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:43,680 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's completely different. 545 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,440 So going thinking about the claim being denied or delayed, 546 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:49,680 what do would you say is the first step to do? 547 00:23:49,920 --> 00:24:27,410 Someone passes and you get a thing saying you're either 548 00:24:27,410 --> 00:24:29,809 denying the claim and you're past those two years. 549 00:24:29,970 --> 00:24:32,450 What would be the first thing, other than calling life claim, 550 00:24:32,529 --> 00:24:34,210 obviously, to help them through that? 551 00:24:35,009 --> 00:24:37,170 SPEAKER_01: Do you not do your own appeal? 552 00:24:37,329 --> 00:24:40,930 And I say this, we literally had a great conversation with one of 553 00:24:40,930 --> 00:24:43,970 the lead attorneys for one of the biggest insurance companies 554 00:24:43,970 --> 00:24:44,609 in the country. 555 00:24:44,849 --> 00:24:47,410 But it's interesting, we're usually adverse them, but we 556 00:24:47,410 --> 00:24:48,769 actually have a good working relationship. 557 00:24:48,849 --> 00:24:51,089 So we're always very honest and open about this is what we're 558 00:24:51,089 --> 00:24:52,210 seeing, these are the trends. 559 00:24:52,289 --> 00:24:54,450 Like we're doing our job, we understand. 560 00:24:54,690 --> 00:24:56,769 We don't like your job, but we understand that you're doing 561 00:24:56,769 --> 00:24:57,650 your job too. 562 00:24:57,809 --> 00:25:02,930 And in that conversation with them, they were both bemoaning 563 00:25:02,930 --> 00:25:06,529 and celebrating the use of AI in these appeals. 564 00:25:06,849 --> 00:25:11,809 Bemoaning because it's just as hard, if not harder, to respond 565 00:25:11,970 --> 00:25:15,730 to something that makes no sense than it is if somebody had 566 00:25:15,730 --> 00:25:18,769 submitted something that was very clear, made sense to argue. 567 00:25:18,930 --> 00:25:20,289 At least you know what you're arguing. 568 00:25:20,609 --> 00:25:25,170 AI is writing appeals that it's literally making up words. 569 00:25:25,329 --> 00:25:28,289 It's making up acronyms, it's making, oh yeah. 570 00:25:28,529 --> 00:25:33,650 In fact, there's a case that is out there now that was a case 571 00:25:33,650 --> 00:25:36,130 that was actually one my husband was handling initially. 572 00:25:36,210 --> 00:25:40,370 And he and the client just did not see eye to eye on what the 573 00:25:40,370 --> 00:25:41,170 options were. 574 00:25:41,410 --> 00:25:45,730 And based on the client's research on AI, kept coming back 575 00:25:45,730 --> 00:25:47,970 saying, I'm entitled to one, two, and three. 576 00:25:48,049 --> 00:25:51,170 And my husband would say, No, the law says you're entitled 577 00:25:51,170 --> 00:25:52,370 only to A and B. 578 00:25:52,609 --> 00:25:54,609 And here's how we're gonna fight for it. 579 00:25:54,690 --> 00:25:58,049 And A and B, by the way, is as much as one, two, and three if 580 00:25:58,049 --> 00:25:59,490 you'll just let me do my job. 581 00:25:59,730 --> 00:26:02,049 They ultimately decided to part ways. 582 00:26:02,210 --> 00:26:07,170 That former client submitted own appeal and own motions to the 583 00:26:07,170 --> 00:26:09,970 federal court, and they were rejected on the basis that 584 00:26:09,970 --> 00:26:13,170 nobody could read them because none of it made sense. 585 00:26:13,410 --> 00:26:16,450 There were words and acronyms that they were just created out 586 00:26:16,450 --> 00:26:17,410 of thin air. 587 00:26:17,569 --> 00:26:18,609 And it, I get it. 588 00:26:18,690 --> 00:26:21,730 Like I get wanting to do it yourself because you know, you 589 00:26:21,890 --> 00:26:23,009 who wants to pay a lawyer? 590 00:26:23,170 --> 00:26:26,049 I trust me, I know I'm a lawyer, I'm married to a lawyer, I'm 591 00:26:26,049 --> 00:26:27,250 pretty sure I'm raising a lawyer. 592 00:26:27,410 --> 00:26:28,849 So it's we get it. 593 00:26:29,170 --> 00:26:33,809 But we I cannot tell you how hard it is to have to tell 594 00:26:33,809 --> 00:26:35,329 someone, I'm sorry, I can't help you. 595 00:26:35,490 --> 00:26:37,410 I can't help you because you did your own appeal. 596 00:26:37,650 --> 00:26:41,170 And I cannot come back from the record you created. 597 00:26:41,329 --> 00:26:43,730 There, there's no options left here for me. 598 00:26:43,970 --> 00:26:47,970 And I, if you are going to do your own appeal, do not think 599 00:26:47,970 --> 00:26:50,849 that AI got it right because the rules are different per state. 600 00:26:50,930 --> 00:26:53,170 And you're not just dealing with a state issue, you're dealing 601 00:26:53,170 --> 00:26:54,450 with also with a federal issue. 602 00:26:54,609 --> 00:26:58,450 So you've got to consider state law, contract law, and federal 603 00:26:58,450 --> 00:26:58,849 law. 604 00:26:59,089 --> 00:27:02,690 And so AI doesn't do all of that for you to go in and say, okay, 605 00:27:02,849 --> 00:27:05,250 here's how all of these laws work together, here's what 606 00:27:05,250 --> 00:27:07,890 you've got to consider, and here's all of the things you 607 00:27:07,890 --> 00:27:09,250 need to make a good appeal. 608 00:27:09,410 --> 00:27:11,730 Please do not use AI to do an appeal. 609 00:27:11,970 --> 00:27:15,970 SPEAKER_02: I think people use think it's it's great in its in 610 00:27:15,970 --> 00:27:16,529 its lane. 611 00:27:16,769 --> 00:27:17,730 In its lane. 612 00:27:17,970 --> 00:27:19,890 But yeah, that's a that's amazing. 613 00:27:20,210 --> 00:27:22,450 SPEAKER_01: I've had some clients that I've got one in 614 00:27:22,450 --> 00:27:23,890 California that I just love. 615 00:27:24,049 --> 00:27:25,329 And she's a nurse. 616 00:27:25,490 --> 00:27:27,170 She missed a calling to be a lawyer. 617 00:27:27,250 --> 00:27:29,329 She did her own appeal and it wasn't perfect. 618 00:27:29,490 --> 00:27:32,289 But I I called her and I was like, I tell you what, if I ever 619 00:27:32,289 --> 00:27:34,930 need somebody to cheer for me, I'm gonna have you do it because 620 00:27:34,930 --> 00:27:38,930 she's feisty and she did as good of a job as anyone I ever could 621 00:27:38,930 --> 00:27:39,650 have expected. 622 00:27:39,890 --> 00:27:43,329 But what really helped in that case was she didn't use AI. 623 00:27:43,490 --> 00:27:46,529 She used she sat down and read everything and worked her way 624 00:27:46,529 --> 00:27:47,009 through it. 625 00:27:47,170 --> 00:27:49,890 And there were mistakes made, but there were mistakes made 626 00:27:49,890 --> 00:27:51,009 because she's not a lawyer. 627 00:27:51,170 --> 00:27:52,769 She could have been a darn good one, though. 628 00:27:52,930 --> 00:27:55,490 I'm just I'm proud of her, whether she wins or not, I'm 629 00:27:55,490 --> 00:27:55,809 proud of her. 630 00:27:57,009 --> 00:27:57,410 SPEAKER_02: Very interesting. 631 00:27:57,809 --> 00:28:00,769 This is this makes you take a step back and kind of think. 632 00:28:01,410 --> 00:28:04,370 No, if you knew so, say you're someone that's like in their 633 00:28:04,370 --> 00:28:07,809 early 60s and they haven't had life insurance, they're healthy. 634 00:28:08,049 --> 00:28:11,170 Would you suggest a whole life at this time or a term? 635 00:28:11,490 --> 00:28:13,970 Or does it really depend on what the family background is? 636 00:28:14,769 --> 00:28:18,210 SPEAKER_01: Depends on the needs, depends on the financial 637 00:28:18,210 --> 00:28:19,490 circumstances. 638 00:28:19,730 --> 00:28:23,250 So if you're in your 60s and you've never had life insurance 639 00:28:23,250 --> 00:28:25,410 before, why are we suddenly looking into it? 640 00:28:25,490 --> 00:28:29,329 Because that's a that's an odd age to become interested in life 641 00:28:29,329 --> 00:28:32,690 insurance, because usually by that time you've got a fixed 642 00:28:32,690 --> 00:28:33,410 mindset on it. 643 00:28:33,490 --> 00:28:35,089 You either like it or you don't. 644 00:28:35,329 --> 00:28:38,130 So what prompted the look into that? 645 00:28:38,289 --> 00:28:41,170 And before we go get it, what other assets do you have? 646 00:28:41,410 --> 00:28:46,049 Are you looking at this life insurance to cover an expense 647 00:28:46,049 --> 00:28:48,529 that you're worried about if you were to pass away? 648 00:28:48,690 --> 00:28:50,769 And if that's true, what other assets do we have? 649 00:28:50,930 --> 00:28:53,809 Can we look at some other options to take care of that? 650 00:28:54,049 --> 00:28:56,690 If you just wanted to have life insurance because now you want 651 00:28:56,690 --> 00:28:58,769 to do something great for your grandkids, okay. 652 00:28:59,089 --> 00:29:02,130 Do you have the financial means to carry that expense? 653 00:29:02,289 --> 00:29:03,809 And some people do, and that's great. 654 00:29:03,970 --> 00:29:06,450 Just make sure we're getting it for the right purpose that we 655 00:29:06,450 --> 00:29:08,690 understand the expense, that we understand the term. 656 00:29:08,849 --> 00:29:13,009 If you're in your 60s and you get a term policy, I'd be 657 00:29:13,009 --> 00:29:15,569 looking at family history going, all right, how long do people 658 00:29:15,569 --> 00:29:16,289 live in your family? 659 00:29:16,450 --> 00:29:17,569 Do they die in their 70s? 660 00:29:17,730 --> 00:29:19,329 Do you have people that live to almost 100? 661 00:29:19,569 --> 00:29:22,210 Because if you get a 30-year term and you're in your 60s, I 662 00:29:22,210 --> 00:29:24,130 don't know if that's a good investment for you. 663 00:29:24,529 --> 00:29:25,250 SPEAKER_02: I don't know. 664 00:29:25,569 --> 00:29:29,089 No, I had a friend that bought it in his 60s for inheritance 665 00:29:29,089 --> 00:29:29,410 tax. 666 00:29:29,970 --> 00:29:34,049 Ah, because it's late 50s, early 60s to take care of inheritance 667 00:29:34,049 --> 00:29:34,289 tax. 668 00:29:35,329 --> 00:29:37,250 SPEAKER_01: That's a that's a different kind of problem. 669 00:29:37,490 --> 00:29:37,890 It is. 670 00:29:38,049 --> 00:29:38,370 Yeah. 671 00:29:38,529 --> 00:29:38,769 Yeah. 672 00:29:38,849 --> 00:29:41,170 I think that's a problem we all wish we could stand up and say 673 00:29:41,329 --> 00:29:42,609 we had that money problem. 674 00:29:42,930 --> 00:29:44,849 But it just depends. 675 00:29:44,930 --> 00:29:47,250 And if he hadn't, if he had an inheritance issue, then he 676 00:29:47,250 --> 00:29:50,130 obviously had the funds to cover the cost of the insurance. 677 00:29:50,370 --> 00:29:53,970 I'm not an insurance salesman, but even though this is what I 678 00:29:53,970 --> 00:29:55,250 do, I still believe in it. 679 00:29:55,410 --> 00:29:55,970 I still love it. 680 00:29:56,130 --> 00:29:57,730 I still have the policies that I have. 681 00:29:57,890 --> 00:30:00,450 So I wouldn't tell someone to shy away from it. 682 00:30:00,609 --> 00:30:05,089 But I would say if you're going to get that at any age, have 683 00:30:05,089 --> 00:30:07,970 somebody that talks to you about it, ask good questions. 684 00:30:08,130 --> 00:30:11,089 And if you have an agent that gets frustrated by you asking 685 00:30:11,089 --> 00:30:12,690 questions, they are not your agent. 686 00:30:12,849 --> 00:30:13,089 SPEAKER_02: No. 687 00:30:13,329 --> 00:30:13,890 SPEAKER_01: They are not. 688 00:30:14,049 --> 00:30:14,769 You go find someone. 689 00:30:14,849 --> 00:30:16,289 And it's the same thing with your lawyer. 690 00:30:16,370 --> 00:30:19,569 Like sometimes lawyers will say, I only have 20 or 30 minutes to 691 00:30:19,569 --> 00:30:19,890 do this. 692 00:30:20,049 --> 00:30:21,970 But if you ask your questions, I'll answer them. 693 00:30:22,210 --> 00:30:23,970 Send them to me, I'll be prepared. 694 00:30:24,130 --> 00:30:26,930 Whether it's an agent or a lawyer, your CPA, whoever your 695 00:30:26,930 --> 00:30:29,650 professional is, if they get grumpy because you're asking 696 00:30:29,650 --> 00:30:31,809 questions or they don't have the time to answer your questions, 697 00:30:31,890 --> 00:30:33,089 they are not your person. 698 00:30:33,329 --> 00:30:34,609 And they never were. 699 00:30:34,930 --> 00:30:38,769 So many of the problems that I see, particularly so many of the 700 00:30:38,769 --> 00:30:43,250 problems that I see that I cannot fix, would have been so 701 00:30:43,569 --> 00:30:49,329 much more reasonable and easy to handle if someone had just 702 00:30:49,329 --> 00:30:50,609 answered questions. 703 00:30:51,089 --> 00:30:53,009 But you don't know what to ask, which you don't know. 704 00:30:53,250 --> 00:30:55,170 SPEAKER_02: There are no print. 705 00:30:55,809 --> 00:30:56,690 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah. 706 00:30:56,849 --> 00:30:59,730 It's I I told someone one time they're like, we paid our 707 00:30:59,730 --> 00:31:02,370 premiums, we this was supposed to pay out. 708 00:31:02,609 --> 00:31:06,450 And my explanation was what you don't understand is that life 709 00:31:06,450 --> 00:31:10,690 insurance does not pay simply because someone died. 710 00:31:10,930 --> 00:31:16,049 Life insurance pays because it survived a claims examination. 711 00:31:16,450 --> 00:31:20,130 All that fine print is that examination because they're 712 00:31:20,130 --> 00:31:22,370 gonna look at who the insured was. 713 00:31:22,529 --> 00:31:25,730 They're gonna look at the premiums where they paid timely, 714 00:31:25,890 --> 00:31:28,370 they're gonna look at the date of death, they're gonna look at 715 00:31:28,370 --> 00:31:31,089 the day the pre-the policy was bought, they're gonna look at 716 00:31:31,089 --> 00:31:32,930 the cause of death, the manner of death. 717 00:31:33,009 --> 00:31:35,730 They're gonna look at how many beneficiary changes were there 718 00:31:35,809 --> 00:31:37,569 when were they made properly? 719 00:31:37,809 --> 00:31:40,289 All of those things are an examination. 720 00:31:40,529 --> 00:31:43,809 Life insurance is not about paying because someone died. 721 00:31:43,890 --> 00:31:47,970 It's about paying because it actually survived the fine print 722 00:31:47,970 --> 00:31:49,009 examination. 723 00:31:50,450 --> 00:31:51,970 SPEAKER_02: That answered my next question. 724 00:31:52,130 --> 00:31:53,730 So I really appreciate that. 725 00:31:53,890 --> 00:31:56,849 I know this has been an amazing conversation and a lot of great 726 00:31:56,849 --> 00:31:57,250 information. 727 00:31:57,329 --> 00:31:59,809 And obviously, people need to take a look and be more 728 00:31:59,809 --> 00:32:02,930 inquisitive when they're buying something like that and not jump 729 00:32:02,930 --> 00:32:05,809 to those phone calls whenever and being overly helpful when 730 00:32:05,809 --> 00:32:08,049 the insurance calls after a death of a loved one. 731 00:32:08,370 --> 00:32:10,130 I know our listeners are probably going to want to 732 00:32:10,130 --> 00:32:13,089 connect with you, ask you questions, reach out to you for 733 00:32:13,089 --> 00:32:14,289 help with their policies. 734 00:32:14,450 --> 00:32:16,450 Where's the best place for them to do that? 735 00:32:16,849 --> 00:32:19,009 SPEAKER_01: So we have a wonderful website. 736 00:32:19,170 --> 00:32:21,650 It's lifeclaim.com. 737 00:32:22,289 --> 00:32:24,930 And on there is like a nice little form. 738 00:32:25,009 --> 00:32:25,890 You can it's very simple. 739 00:32:25,970 --> 00:32:28,210 You can fill it out, even if it's just one question, just 740 00:32:28,210 --> 00:32:28,529 name. 741 00:32:28,609 --> 00:32:30,769 Hopefully, you give a phone number because I tend to call 742 00:32:30,769 --> 00:32:33,170 people back personally, but a phone number, email, whatever 743 00:32:33,170 --> 00:32:35,329 works, and just give me an idea of what's going on. 744 00:32:35,490 --> 00:32:39,009 Either someone in our office or me, or sometimes both of us, 745 00:32:39,170 --> 00:32:41,410 we'll call back and say, okay, let's make sure we understand. 746 00:32:41,490 --> 00:32:42,529 Here's what we can do. 747 00:32:42,769 --> 00:32:46,130 If you don't want to go online, you can call us directly at 748 00:32:46,130 --> 00:32:50,849 888-615-3270. 749 00:32:51,569 --> 00:32:55,569 And we'd be pleased to visit with you and see if we can help. 750 00:32:55,809 --> 00:32:59,170 And I had to say, one of the things that I love most about 751 00:32:59,170 --> 00:33:03,569 our firm, our practice is that even if we can't help you, we 752 00:33:03,569 --> 00:33:04,769 try to give you a nudge. 753 00:33:04,930 --> 00:33:07,970 Okay, maybe you need to call the Department of Insurance, or 754 00:33:07,970 --> 00:33:09,890 here's a place I would go look. 755 00:33:10,049 --> 00:33:13,329 And even if they don't like the answer, I'll tell you what the 756 00:33:13,329 --> 00:33:15,250 answer is and I'll tell you why. 757 00:33:15,809 --> 00:33:17,089 And you don't have to like it. 758 00:33:17,170 --> 00:33:17,890 And that's okay. 759 00:33:17,970 --> 00:33:21,089 And if you're gonna somebody recently, they did not like my 760 00:33:21,089 --> 00:33:22,690 answer, and I said, I know you don't like it. 761 00:33:22,769 --> 00:33:24,450 I know you're gonna do your own appeal. 762 00:33:24,609 --> 00:33:26,210 Here's what I'm gonna tell you to do. 763 00:33:26,370 --> 00:33:29,009 One, two, three, if you're gonna do it on your own. 764 00:33:29,250 --> 00:33:30,529 I wish you the best of luck. 765 00:33:30,609 --> 00:33:32,450 And if you win, I want you to call me up because I'm gonna 766 00:33:32,450 --> 00:33:35,009 send you a bottle of champagne because this is where I think 767 00:33:35,009 --> 00:33:38,930 you are, but I so appreciate the tenacity to follow through. 768 00:33:39,170 --> 00:33:39,890 SPEAKER_02: I love that. 769 00:33:40,049 --> 00:33:42,450 I'll make sure that the website and the phone number are in the 770 00:33:42,450 --> 00:33:42,930 show notes. 771 00:33:43,009 --> 00:33:45,410 And Stephanie, again, this has been a great conversation. 772 00:33:45,490 --> 00:33:47,329 I really appreciate you coming onto the show today. 773 00:33:47,890 --> 00:33:48,930 Absolutely likewise. 774 00:33:49,009 --> 00:33:49,970 It's been such a treasure. 775 00:33:50,130 --> 00:33:50,450 Thank you. 776 00:33:50,690 --> 00:33:53,329 That's a wrap on today's episode of the Leadership in Law 777 00:33:53,329 --> 00:33:53,730 Podcast. 778 00:33:53,890 --> 00:33:55,970 Before you go, I want to make sure that you know about 779 00:33:55,970 --> 00:33:58,609 something that could be a real game changer for your firm. 780 00:33:58,769 --> 00:34:01,490 If you've been doing the work, showing up, serving clients, but 781 00:34:01,490 --> 00:34:04,130 your marketing still isn't producing the caseload you know 782 00:34:04,130 --> 00:34:04,690 you deserve. 783 00:34:04,849 --> 00:34:07,569 That's exactly the problem Law Marketing Zone was built to 784 00:34:07,569 --> 00:34:07,809 solve. 785 00:34:07,970 --> 00:34:10,849 My team and I work exclusively with law firms, and we don't do 786 00:34:10,849 --> 00:34:11,730 cookie cutter. 787 00:34:11,890 --> 00:34:14,849 We build a strategy around your practice, your market, and your 788 00:34:14,849 --> 00:34:15,250 goals. 789 00:34:15,410 --> 00:34:19,329 More high-quality leads, better cases, less stress, and more 790 00:34:19,329 --> 00:34:19,650 profit. 791 00:34:19,809 --> 00:34:22,450 Head over to LawmarketingZone.com slash book 792 00:34:22,450 --> 00:34:25,090 a call and book your free case growth session today. 793 00:34:25,170 --> 00:34:26,450 The link is in the show notes. 794 00:34:26,610 --> 00:34:29,410 Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next episode. 795 00:34:30,530 --> 00:34:32,930 SPEAKER_00: Thanks for joining us on another episode of the 796 00:34:32,930 --> 00:34:35,010 Leadership in Law Podcast. 797 00:34:35,250 --> 00:34:37,570 Remember, you're not alone on this journey. 798 00:34:37,650 --> 00:34:40,690 There's a whole community of law firm owners out there facing 799 00:34:40,690 --> 00:34:43,730 similar challenges and striving for the things of the past. 800 00:34:44,210 --> 00:34:48,210 Head over to our website at lawmarketingstone.com. 801 00:34:48,450 --> 00:34:50,450 From there, connect with other websites. 802 00:34:50,690 --> 00:34:54,370 Access valuable resources and stay up to date on the latest 803 00:34:54,530 --> 00:34:55,010 episode. 804 00:34:55,810 --> 00:34:58,850 Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on your 805 00:34:58,850 --> 00:35:00,450 favorite podcast platform. 806 00:35:00,610 --> 00:35:04,770 Until next time, keep leading with vision and keep growing 807 00:35:04,770 --> 00:35:05,570 your firm.