S04E157 Your Intake Costing Your Firm Thousands. Fix It with Sou Bounlutay

1 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:55,280 SPEAKER_00: The Leadership and Law Podcast is there to equip 2 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:58,880 you with the knowledge and tools you need to build a successful 3 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:00,800 and fulfilling legal practice. 4 00:01:11,359 --> 00:01:13,840 SPEAKER_01: Welcome to another episode of the Leadership in Law 5 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:14,159 Podcast. 6 00:01:14,239 --> 00:01:15,920 I'm your host, Marilyn Jenkins. 7 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,280 Please join me in welcoming my guest, Sue Boon Latai, to the 8 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:19,760 show today. 9 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:23,040 Sue is the founder of Zinger Consulting, a company that helps 10 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:26,400 law firms increase revenue by mastering the client acquisition 11 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:27,680 and enrollment process. 12 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:31,200 Sue previously served as the director of attorney success for 13 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:32,879 a national legal marketing company. 14 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:35,920 She developed and trained support teams responsible for 15 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:39,200 handling thousands of incoming leads and guiding prospective 16 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:40,960 clients through the hiring decision. 17 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:43,920 Over the course of her career, Sue has personally worked with 18 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:47,040 thousands of attorneys across the nation, helping them refine 19 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,320 their client acquisition process, improve consultation 20 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:53,760 conversion rates, and build the operational systems necessary to 21 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:54,879 scale their practices. 22 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:58,159 Today, through Zinger Consulting, Sue works directly 23 00:01:58,159 --> 00:02:01,120 with attorneys and their teams to implement the structures and 24 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:04,960 systems that turn consultations into signed clients and allow 25 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:07,359 firms to grow with greater predictability and 26 00:02:07,359 --> 00:02:08,159 profitability. 27 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:09,840 I'm excited to have you here, Sue. 28 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:10,639 Welcome. 29 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:12,400 SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Marilyn. 30 00:02:12,479 --> 00:02:13,359 I'm happy to be here. 31 00:02:13,599 --> 00:02:14,079 SPEAKER_01: Fantastic. 32 00:02:14,239 --> 00:02:16,879 Tell us a little bit about your leadership journey. 33 00:02:18,159 --> 00:02:21,519 SPEAKER_02: I have been in the legal industry, I think, all of 34 00:02:21,519 --> 00:02:27,919 my career in various capacities from fire clerk all the way up 35 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:29,199 to crazy zinger. 36 00:02:29,439 --> 00:02:32,639 So I have been doing this pretty much for as long as I know. 37 00:02:32,719 --> 00:02:35,519 I don't think I know anything else other than being in the 38 00:02:35,519 --> 00:02:36,399 legal industry. 39 00:02:36,559 --> 00:02:39,519 But I think the most notable thing that would be interest to 40 00:02:39,519 --> 00:02:43,839 your audience is the fact that in right before COVID, as you 41 00:02:43,839 --> 00:02:49,439 all know, I pivoted and went and worked with the legal marketing 42 00:02:49,439 --> 00:02:52,639 company where I had the opportunity to work with 43 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:56,639 literally thousands and thousands of attorneys in a 44 00:02:56,639 --> 00:03:00,159 different capacity that, you know, than what I was doing 45 00:03:00,159 --> 00:03:00,959 before. 46 00:03:01,199 --> 00:03:05,439 And so what I did with them was I helped attorneys during that 47 00:03:05,439 --> 00:03:08,879 time, as you remember, with COVID, a lot of attorneys were 48 00:03:08,879 --> 00:03:12,319 struggling in terms of keeping their door doors open by getting 49 00:03:12,319 --> 00:03:13,439 clients retained. 50 00:03:13,679 --> 00:03:17,599 So what I would do with the attorneys was I literally would 51 00:03:17,599 --> 00:03:22,639 work with them, figure out what was wrong with their intake 52 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:25,679 process, how they were having conversations with potential 53 00:03:25,679 --> 00:03:29,119 clients, figure out what the block was, come up with a game 54 00:03:29,119 --> 00:03:32,719 plan on how to undo that, and then we were off running. 55 00:03:33,039 --> 00:03:38,399 So that's kind of yeah, it's been a very interesting and 56 00:03:38,399 --> 00:03:39,280 fulfilling journey. 57 00:03:39,519 --> 00:03:40,000 SPEAKER_01: I love that. 58 00:03:40,159 --> 00:03:40,639 I love that. 59 00:03:40,719 --> 00:03:43,919 And you've said that many law firms lose up to 70% of their 60 00:03:43,919 --> 00:03:46,159 clients that they've already paid to acquire. 61 00:03:46,399 --> 00:03:48,000 What's really happening there? 62 00:03:49,439 --> 00:03:51,679 SPEAKER_02: I think one of the things that attorneys don't 63 00:03:51,679 --> 00:03:55,119 realize, first of all, when we go to law school, we're taught 64 00:03:55,119 --> 00:03:58,399 and we're trained to how to do the practice of law, right? 65 00:03:58,559 --> 00:04:03,039 How to analyze and break down arguments and present our 66 00:04:03,039 --> 00:04:05,759 attorney's case, our client's case. 67 00:04:06,639 --> 00:04:10,559 When it comes to client, it's a whole different framework. 68 00:04:10,799 --> 00:04:15,119 What they're really dealing with is how do you communicate with 69 00:04:15,119 --> 00:04:19,680 potential clients in a way that will get them to understand and 70 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,439 get them to want to work with the attorneys. 71 00:04:23,759 --> 00:04:27,360 It's really a training, it's a sales training, right? 72 00:04:27,439 --> 00:04:28,800 It's a business growth training. 73 00:04:29,199 --> 00:04:32,480 And it's not that's not something that we're taught. 74 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:35,199 And law school is not meant to be that. 75 00:04:35,439 --> 00:04:39,120 And so when attorneys come graduate from law school, and if 76 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,640 they don't end up going into big law firms, they open up their 77 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:43,600 own practice. 78 00:04:43,840 --> 00:04:47,680 What ends up happening is all of a sudden you have the skills to 79 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:52,160 be an attorney, but you have no clue of what it takes to 80 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,800 actually build a law practice. 81 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:55,520 SPEAKER_01: Right. 82 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:57,840 SPEAKER_02: And so there's a huge gap. 83 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,680 There's a huge gap between law school and being in practice and 84 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:02,960 having your own law practice. 85 00:05:03,199 --> 00:05:03,759 SPEAKER_01: I love that. 86 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:05,120 You're absolutely right. 87 00:05:05,280 --> 00:05:09,120 So thinking about the client journey, customer journey, when 88 00:05:09,280 --> 00:05:10,720 do most of those losses occur? 89 00:05:10,879 --> 00:05:13,680 Is it intake, consultation, or follow-up? 90 00:05:15,280 --> 00:05:18,960 SPEAKER_02: I think before I get into that, I think I would like 91 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:22,160 to talk about there's the source makes a difference, right? 92 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:23,439 Let's start in the beginning. 93 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,640 Most attorneys don't, it's not something we think about. 94 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,319 What I mean when I source is where are your clients, 95 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:32,319 potential clients coming from? 96 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,040 There's generally two ways to do that. 97 00:05:35,199 --> 00:05:37,600 There's basically it's lead source, right? 98 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:41,920 There's a lot of times when you're first starting out solo 99 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:45,920 or small firms, is you have to figure out where am I going to 100 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:46,960 get my clients. 101 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:49,360 And there's basically two routes. 102 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:53,439 The first route is usually it's lead generation, meaning there's 103 00:05:53,439 --> 00:05:56,800 a company out there that all they do is find potential 104 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,280 clients, whether it's on their usually on the internet, right 105 00:05:59,360 --> 00:05:59,680 nowadays. 106 00:05:59,759 --> 00:06:00,879 It's all on the internet. 107 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:04,160 They find potential clients and then they send them to you. 108 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:06,000 So that's one method. 109 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:08,640 That's us that's called lead generation company, right? 110 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:11,280 You're actually hiring a company to do that for you. 111 00:06:12,319 --> 00:06:19,040 And in that scenario, the basically the company is the one 112 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,120 that's interfacing with a potential client. 113 00:06:21,280 --> 00:06:23,840 They do what they need to do, they figure it out, and then 114 00:06:23,840 --> 00:06:25,040 they send them to you. 115 00:06:25,280 --> 00:06:28,640 Then there's a second way of getting clients. 116 00:06:29,280 --> 00:06:32,960 And that is where, you know, what companies like you do. 117 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:34,960 Basically, they do direct marketing. 118 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:38,000 And when I say direct marketing is, for example, if you have a 119 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,040 website, you work with somebody, I'm sorry, I don't know the 120 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:41,199 terms. 121 00:06:41,439 --> 00:06:43,520 It's because it's completely out of my range. 122 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:46,640 I'm kind of, excuse me, the vocab, I'm not gonna get the 123 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:47,280 language right. 124 00:06:47,439 --> 00:06:50,560 Is you work with somebody like Marilyn, where you, if you have 125 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:55,199 a website, you focus on SEOs so that you rank when people go on 126 00:06:55,199 --> 00:06:57,920 a Google search and your firm like awesome law firm, you want 127 00:06:57,920 --> 00:06:59,360 to be since it's a awesome, right? 128 00:06:59,439 --> 00:07:02,080 You want to be the first that people see when they Google you, 129 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:03,920 they do a search and they click on that. 130 00:07:04,319 --> 00:07:05,439 So that's one way. 131 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:10,240 Or another way is as you many of us are familiar now, they do 132 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:13,439 what is L LSA or local search. 133 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:15,120 SPEAKER_01: Local service ads, yeah. 134 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:15,759 SPEAKER_02: Exactly. 135 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:18,800 Where they actually advertise, directly advertise. 136 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:20,640 So back direct marketing. 137 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:24,879 The reason why this is important is because how you approach the 138 00:07:24,879 --> 00:07:28,560 different type of clients that are coming your way, your 139 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:32,480 strategy when it's coming from lead generation is gonna be 140 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:33,040 different. 141 00:07:33,199 --> 00:07:36,960 Okay than when you're when they're coming to you for as a 142 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:37,920 direct, right? 143 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:40,879 As when you're the one that's actually reaching out to them 144 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:43,040 using individuals like you, right? 145 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:47,840 That's where you're focusing is you help attorneys directly 146 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:49,680 market to the potential client. 147 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:52,640 Because the lead source is different, the strategy that 148 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:55,600 you're gonna be interacting with the potential client is gonna be 149 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:56,240 different. 150 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:58,240 Many attorneys don't realize it. 151 00:07:58,480 --> 00:07:58,640 SPEAKER_01: Right. 152 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:00,879 SPEAKER_02: And and the conversion rate and the result 153 00:08:00,879 --> 00:08:03,360 that you're gonna get is gonna be completely different 154 00:08:03,439 --> 00:08:04,640 depending on where they're coming from. 155 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:07,680 SPEAKER_01: So they got exposed to you is a in the direct 156 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:11,040 marketing aspect, but from a lead generation where that other 157 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:14,800 company is doing all the ads, getting them the leads and bring 158 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:15,120 them to you. 159 00:08:15,199 --> 00:08:16,240 That's two different conversations. 160 00:08:16,319 --> 00:08:19,040 Because the lead generation, you're not necessarily they 161 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:20,319 don't know about you ahead of time. 162 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:21,520 They know they need to. 163 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:22,319 No, not at all. 164 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:22,960 Okay. 165 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:24,000 SPEAKER_02: Exactly. 166 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,199 In the lead generation company, we call that in the marketing 167 00:08:27,199 --> 00:08:28,720 terms completely cold. 168 00:08:28,879 --> 00:08:29,520 Yeah. 169 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:32,000 Those are cold leads, right? 170 00:08:32,159 --> 00:08:34,559 Meaning it's like they don't know you from Adam. 171 00:08:35,039 --> 00:08:37,519 They had no idea by the time they get to you, a lot of times 172 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,240 they had no idea even how they even got to you. 173 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:43,199 Because when you're doing research on the internet, or at 174 00:08:43,199 --> 00:08:46,000 least for me, and I think you know, a lot of clients, right? 175 00:08:46,159 --> 00:08:49,360 They're just randomly clicking, and then all of a sudden they're 176 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:52,879 like, oh, here's a here's a potential attorney that I might 177 00:08:52,879 --> 00:08:56,399 be interested in, but they have no idea who you are or how even 178 00:08:56,399 --> 00:08:57,199 they get to you. 179 00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:57,599 SPEAKER_01: Right. 180 00:08:57,839 --> 00:08:59,919 SPEAKER_02: Because a lead generation company is they're 181 00:08:59,919 --> 00:09:02,159 doing behind the scenes whatever it it is that they're doing. 182 00:09:02,319 --> 00:09:02,639 Okay. 183 00:09:03,279 --> 00:09:08,240 Now, if somebody was working with somebody who's specialized 184 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:11,919 in marketing, legal marketing like you, then what will happen 185 00:09:11,919 --> 00:09:15,759 is they would go to their website, or when whenever 186 00:09:15,759 --> 00:09:18,799 they're being notified, it's actually their law firm would be 187 00:09:18,799 --> 00:09:21,039 the one that it's right in front and center. 188 00:09:21,279 --> 00:09:21,759 SPEAKER_01: Right. 189 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,399 SPEAKER_02: So they would then have the opportunity, oh, who is 190 00:09:24,399 --> 00:09:25,199 this attorney? 191 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:28,559 They would usually go to your website, look at you, get 192 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:30,240 familiar somewhat with you. 193 00:09:30,799 --> 00:09:31,039 Right. 194 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:35,839 And so by the time they reach out to you, they pretty much 195 00:09:35,839 --> 00:09:39,679 have made a determination which way they're gonna go. 196 00:09:40,159 --> 00:09:42,719 There's something about your website, there's something about 197 00:09:42,719 --> 00:09:46,159 how you're directly marketing to them that piqued their interest. 198 00:09:46,639 --> 00:09:49,519 So because of that, so that's a warmer lead. 199 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:50,159 Right. 200 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:53,039 It can be either really warm or even hot. 201 00:09:53,199 --> 00:09:56,319 Meaning by the time they talk to your office, it's a basically 202 00:09:56,319 --> 00:09:59,439 just a confirmation that, yep, this is the firm for me. 203 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:03,120 So that's a huge difference in terms of how do you interact 204 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:04,159 with potential clients. 205 00:10:04,399 --> 00:10:04,719 SPEAKER_00: Okay. 206 00:10:07,039 --> 00:10:10,399 SPEAKER_01: Okay, and so now we've got a cold lead that 207 00:10:10,399 --> 00:10:13,839 doesn't know anything about me, and we've got a warm lead that, 208 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,559 say, a company like Law Marketing Zone brings to them. 209 00:10:16,799 --> 00:10:20,879 Now, the intake is the first impression of every new 210 00:10:20,879 --> 00:10:22,399 potential new client. 211 00:10:22,719 --> 00:10:26,799 So that is in my what I've experienced is where a lot of 212 00:10:26,799 --> 00:10:28,159 firms are dropping the ball. 213 00:10:28,319 --> 00:10:29,919 And is that what you're seeing? 214 00:10:30,079 --> 00:10:34,319 That's just it's not it, whether it's empathy or not qualifying 215 00:10:34,319 --> 00:10:34,799 correctly. 216 00:10:35,039 --> 00:10:37,919 Some don't even qualify affordability, which then once 217 00:10:37,919 --> 00:10:41,120 you get them in the attorney's time, it's a waste. 218 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:43,519 Absolutely. 219 00:10:44,159 --> 00:10:49,039 SPEAKER_02: So what most people, so there's um, there's two 220 00:10:49,039 --> 00:10:49,919 concepts here. 221 00:10:50,479 --> 00:10:54,319 A lot of attorneys think that when they come, when you are 222 00:10:54,319 --> 00:10:58,479 able to connect with a potential client, what they're looking for 223 00:10:58,479 --> 00:10:59,919 is legal consultation. 224 00:11:00,079 --> 00:11:00,319 Right. 225 00:11:00,639 --> 00:11:05,439 Right No, it's not a legal consultation. 226 00:11:05,759 --> 00:11:06,000 SPEAKER_00: Okay. 227 00:11:06,399 --> 00:11:08,319 SPEAKER_02: It's a legal enrollment. 228 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:12,399 A legal consultation is when you're talking within an with a 229 00:11:12,399 --> 00:11:18,240 potential client and you're doing substantive detail case 230 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:18,959 analysis. 231 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:20,959 You're actually doing the legal work. 232 00:11:22,319 --> 00:11:25,439 Usually in that scenario, you would do be doing the legal work 233 00:11:25,759 --> 00:11:27,199 once they retain you. 234 00:11:27,919 --> 00:11:31,120 But there is no client-attory relationship yet. 235 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:34,240 So in this part of the conversation, what you're doing, 236 00:11:34,399 --> 00:11:38,559 the whole goal is to connect with them, interact with them, 237 00:11:38,719 --> 00:11:41,919 kind of communicate to the potential client for the sole 238 00:11:41,919 --> 00:11:45,919 purpose of getting them to say yes, to enroll into your 239 00:11:45,919 --> 00:11:46,559 service. 240 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:48,799 SPEAKER_01: Ideally, yes. 241 00:11:49,519 --> 00:11:49,919 SPEAKER_02: Right. 242 00:11:50,079 --> 00:11:50,319 SPEAKER_01: Right. 243 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:53,360 SPEAKER_02: And just making that distinction, how you would talk 244 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:56,240 to them, how you would have a interaction is going to be 245 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:57,360 completely different. 246 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:01,679 This is an enrollment conversation, and this is the 247 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:05,679 part where most attorneys are not trained to do. 248 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,399 Okay, but they would train salespeople. 249 00:12:08,719 --> 00:12:09,439 SPEAKER_01: There's that, yeah. 250 00:12:09,519 --> 00:12:12,159 But in normally they have someone else doing the intake. 251 00:12:12,319 --> 00:12:15,919 So what are some of the most common intake mistakes that just 252 00:12:15,919 --> 00:12:18,399 cost the firm significant revenue? 253 00:12:20,159 --> 00:12:22,079 SPEAKER_02: I think they don't have a structure. 254 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:22,559 SPEAKER_01: Okay. 255 00:12:22,879 --> 00:12:25,599 SPEAKER_02: They don't have a conversation structure because 256 00:12:26,159 --> 00:12:33,759 they there's confusion of trying to provide legal advice versus 257 00:12:34,079 --> 00:12:37,279 providing an enrollment conversation where the 258 00:12:37,279 --> 00:12:42,000 enrollment conversation is has a specific structure, and each 259 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:46,079 structure or each section of the conversation serves a different 260 00:12:46,079 --> 00:12:46,559 purpose. 261 00:12:46,799 --> 00:12:47,120 SPEAKER_00: Okay. 262 00:12:48,079 --> 00:12:51,919 SPEAKER_02: For example, the first section is all you do, you 263 00:12:51,919 --> 00:12:52,719 have three seconds. 264 00:12:52,799 --> 00:12:55,039 You have three seconds to make an impression, like you said, 265 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:55,919 Marilyn. 266 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:58,879 Is they lose them 70% right off the bat. 267 00:12:58,959 --> 00:13:02,079 The moment you say hello, is because what people don't 268 00:13:02,079 --> 00:13:05,839 understand is that three seconds, all you're trying to 269 00:13:05,839 --> 00:13:07,439 establish is rapport. 270 00:13:07,839 --> 00:13:09,519 And most people lose it. 271 00:13:09,759 --> 00:13:14,240 You have to know how to say, how to interact right away, or else 272 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:18,319 you're gonna lose the whole conversation within three to ten 273 00:13:18,799 --> 00:13:19,360 seconds. 274 00:13:19,759 --> 00:13:20,079 SPEAKER_01: Okay. 275 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:22,879 SPEAKER_02: So there's a whole different it's basically what I 276 00:13:23,279 --> 00:13:28,000 there's seven steps in that conversation, and you eat and 277 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:30,639 within each step, it's almost its little old funnel. 278 00:13:31,599 --> 00:13:34,639 Certain things has to happen correctly so that because then 279 00:13:34,639 --> 00:13:36,719 it moves it through the second step. 280 00:13:37,039 --> 00:13:39,759 In the second step, certain things has to happen, and then 281 00:13:39,759 --> 00:13:44,639 it moves it to the third step until you get to the end of the 282 00:13:44,639 --> 00:13:47,839 conversation where you actually offer your service where you 283 00:13:47,839 --> 00:13:48,959 talk about pricing. 284 00:13:49,199 --> 00:13:52,399 Most attorneys' office or most intake clients come on, it's 285 00:13:52,399 --> 00:13:55,679 like, how much is it gonna cost me in order to hire a firm? 286 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:57,039 Cost comes right away. 287 00:13:57,199 --> 00:13:57,439 Exactly. 288 00:13:57,599 --> 00:14:00,159 What ends up happening is then that conversation just becomes a 289 00:14:00,159 --> 00:14:01,599 price shopping experience, right? 290 00:14:01,759 --> 00:14:02,240 SPEAKER_01: Right. 291 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:04,399 SPEAKER_02: They have no idea the value. 292 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:07,439 They have no idea what the firm can do for them. 293 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,159 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we I think a lot of businesses have that 294 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:11,439 going on as well. 295 00:14:11,759 --> 00:14:15,439 So how would you okay, in the first three seconds, one one of 296 00:14:15,439 --> 00:14:18,399 the things that I understand is whenever, depending on how your 297 00:14:18,399 --> 00:14:22,079 phone is answered, that is a positive or negative experience. 298 00:14:22,319 --> 00:14:26,559 If I have to press one for this, two for that, and up to nine, by 299 00:14:26,559 --> 00:14:28,399 the time I get to nine and so over it. 300 00:14:28,639 --> 00:14:31,039 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, another provider and people do that, 301 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:32,079 firms do that. 302 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:35,439 They think it's right, there's a couple of things that acts as a 303 00:14:35,439 --> 00:14:36,000 gatekeeper. 304 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:36,639 Yep. 305 00:14:37,439 --> 00:14:37,839 Right? 306 00:14:38,079 --> 00:14:41,199 And they're think they're thinking that the more difficult 307 00:14:41,199 --> 00:14:45,360 that I make for the potential clients to have access to me, 308 00:14:45,759 --> 00:14:49,199 that means that they I am more credible. 309 00:14:49,679 --> 00:14:50,000 unknown: Right? 310 00:14:50,399 --> 00:14:51,599 SPEAKER_01: More important, better at my job. 311 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,719 SPEAKER_02: Yes, you have to put up all this, you have to earn 312 00:14:54,719 --> 00:14:54,959 me. 313 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:57,759 You have to earn the right to be in front of me. 314 00:14:59,439 --> 00:15:02,159 You make a lot of firms make it difficult, and guess what? 315 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:02,639 Exactly. 316 00:15:02,719 --> 00:15:06,319 They're like they're just gonna go on to the next potential 317 00:15:06,319 --> 00:15:06,879 attorneys. 318 00:15:07,199 --> 00:15:09,839 They're just gonna go down the in the olden day, we have the 319 00:15:09,839 --> 00:15:11,120 yellow page book, right? 320 00:15:11,519 --> 00:15:12,079 SPEAKER_01: Yes. 321 00:15:14,079 --> 00:15:15,039 Exactly. 322 00:15:15,439 --> 00:15:18,719 And even like you you mentioned local service ads, what a lot of 323 00:15:18,719 --> 00:15:23,199 attorneys that are running local service ads don't realize is not 324 00:15:23,199 --> 00:15:27,120 very recently, but Google added the little checkbox when someone 325 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:30,319 clicks on your ad that says, should we have four other 326 00:15:30,319 --> 00:15:31,919 attorneys contact you? 327 00:15:33,279 --> 00:15:34,719 SPEAKER_02: Oh, I didn't know that. 328 00:15:34,959 --> 00:15:38,000 So you're they're actually competing just because it's not 329 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:38,639 a sure thing. 330 00:15:38,719 --> 00:15:40,000 It's like you need to. 331 00:15:40,319 --> 00:15:41,759 So it's the other way around. 332 00:15:41,919 --> 00:15:46,079 It's clients are not trying to earn the right to be with you. 333 00:15:46,319 --> 00:15:48,879 Now it's the mindset is different. 334 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:52,079 Instead of you have the potential client having to, 335 00:15:52,159 --> 00:15:53,599 like, oh, I am so important. 336 00:15:53,759 --> 00:15:56,159 You have to do all this, go through all of these obstacles 337 00:15:56,159 --> 00:15:57,279 in order to be in front of me. 338 00:15:57,519 --> 00:16:00,719 Now the kind of in a way, it's more of a service mindset. 339 00:16:00,799 --> 00:16:03,919 It's showing the potential client, how can I serve you? 340 00:16:04,159 --> 00:16:05,599 What can I do for you? 341 00:16:05,759 --> 00:16:08,879 And one of the ways to do that is remove and get to them as 342 00:16:08,879 --> 00:16:12,319 soon as possible, make it easy for them to say yes to you. 343 00:16:12,559 --> 00:16:15,120 SPEAKER_01: Yes, one of the I remember in early e-commerce 344 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:18,959 days, it was like one of the most important things to tell a 345 00:16:18,959 --> 00:16:21,759 new website owner or business owner to make it easy to take 346 00:16:21,759 --> 00:16:22,719 their money. 347 00:16:23,039 --> 00:16:23,360 Yeah. 348 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:27,279 So it it doesn't have to be difficult, but it has to be, I 349 00:16:27,279 --> 00:16:31,679 think that intake conversation needs to be empathetic, but it 350 00:16:31,679 --> 00:16:33,199 also needs to be informative. 351 00:16:33,679 --> 00:16:36,079 And they have to make sure that they can afford you. 352 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,879 There are so many mistakes that can happen just by, like you 353 00:16:38,879 --> 00:16:41,919 said, starting off wrong or maybe not answering that final 354 00:16:42,079 --> 00:16:42,399 question. 355 00:16:42,719 --> 00:16:45,919 Could be an ideal case, but if they have no money, and it's not 356 00:16:45,919 --> 00:16:49,599 personal injury, obviously, then is it an ideal case. 357 00:16:50,719 --> 00:16:54,240 SPEAKER_02: So here's the other thing, absolutely, but various 358 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,039 things have to happen in order for the intake person or the 359 00:16:57,039 --> 00:16:59,679 attorney to actually be able to cover all of the topics, 360 00:16:59,919 --> 00:17:02,000 Marilyn, that you just mentioned. 361 00:17:02,479 --> 00:17:06,240 So what happens when clients, especially family law, criminal 362 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:08,400 law, anything other than PI, right? 363 00:17:09,360 --> 00:17:14,880 Is you have to understand the emotional state that the 364 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:16,560 potential clients are coming to you. 365 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:18,080 That's like the first test. 366 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,680 Family law, criminal law, they're remember, their life is 367 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:22,320 falling apart. 368 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:22,640 Right. 369 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:24,160 There's a sense of urgency. 370 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:26,640 It just, I don't know if you ever, if anybody has gone 371 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:29,360 through a divorce, which I have, it's oh my god, is literally 372 00:17:29,519 --> 00:17:32,880 it's a major event in your life, whatever it is you built, it's 373 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:34,000 just crumbling. 374 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:39,759 So the mental state that the client's coming to you, in order 375 00:17:39,759 --> 00:17:43,440 for you to even have a productive conversation, one of 376 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:47,200 the first things that needs to be done is you have to stabilize 377 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:48,240 them emotionally. 378 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:54,480 So not only your first hello needs to be both, I am here, I 379 00:17:54,720 --> 00:18:00,080 care about you, but have they have to have the skill to calm 380 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:05,200 emotionally, calm the person down first. 381 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:09,600 Get them to the point, so slow the conversation down. 382 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:15,920 That's I think that's why most firms lose 70 to almost 80% of 383 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:19,519 the conversation, is because they don't understand that in 384 00:18:19,519 --> 00:18:22,000 order for them to be able to have the whole the rest of the 385 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:27,279 conversation, they have to be able to control the dynamic so 386 00:18:27,279 --> 00:18:31,200 that they can guide the potential client through the 387 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,680 whole enrollment process. 388 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,560 SPEAKER_01: That makes a lot of sense because you are those two 389 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:39,519 practice areas specifically potentially talking to people on 390 00:18:39,519 --> 00:18:40,960 the worst day of their life. 391 00:18:41,759 --> 00:18:43,200 Always a high emotion. 392 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:45,200 I know I understand that. 393 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:47,840 So now, okay, we control the conversation. 394 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:52,400 How do we move into a sales structure, which an intake call 395 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:56,160 is sales, without, especially when people and attorneys 396 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:58,960 struggle with the whole sales side of their practice? 397 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:00,320 But you have to. 398 00:19:01,759 --> 00:19:02,880 You have to do sales. 399 00:19:36,529 --> 00:19:37,410 It's just what it's called. 400 00:19:37,569 --> 00:19:40,289 Whether you want to call it something else, it is sales, so 401 00:19:40,289 --> 00:19:41,250 it makes you money. 402 00:19:41,410 --> 00:19:44,769 How do you help transition or make them understand this is 403 00:19:44,769 --> 00:19:46,210 what's actually happening? 404 00:19:47,170 --> 00:19:49,809 SPEAKER_02: So first you kind of emotionally connect with them 405 00:19:49,809 --> 00:19:51,250 and slow them down. 406 00:19:51,410 --> 00:19:54,130 Then you get a big old reveal of, okay, tell me what happened. 407 00:19:54,210 --> 00:19:56,289 That's more of a controlling, getting them to calm down. 408 00:19:56,450 --> 00:19:57,329 Tell me what happened. 409 00:19:57,490 --> 00:20:00,210 What brought me what brought you here to to be today? 410 00:20:00,849 --> 00:20:05,170 Get the story, and then figure out, okay, bring them down 411 00:20:05,170 --> 00:20:07,009 again, bring them down to reality. 412 00:20:07,250 --> 00:20:10,049 And okay, at the end of the day, what's really important here? 413 00:20:10,450 --> 00:20:15,009 As an attorney, the list of wish lists of what's important is 414 00:20:15,089 --> 00:20:16,450 gonna always be the same. 415 00:20:16,769 --> 00:20:18,529 It's gonna always be the same, right? 416 00:20:18,690 --> 00:20:21,650 If you're in a divorce, because if they have children, I need to 417 00:20:21,650 --> 00:20:24,690 figure out how we're gonna co-parent. 418 00:20:25,250 --> 00:20:29,089 I need to figure out what we're gonna do with our marital 419 00:20:29,089 --> 00:20:29,569 assets. 420 00:20:29,730 --> 00:20:32,690 It's gonna be the same conversation, same But it's not, 421 00:20:32,849 --> 00:20:36,049 but the point is the questions that you can be asking them, 422 00:20:36,130 --> 00:20:37,170 it's not about you. 423 00:20:37,650 --> 00:20:39,170 It's about the potential client. 424 00:20:39,329 --> 00:20:39,650 Yeah. 425 00:20:40,049 --> 00:20:42,450 You're getting them to come down, you're getting them to 426 00:20:42,450 --> 00:20:45,970 tell the story so that they can, in a way, unload. 427 00:20:46,529 --> 00:20:47,009 Right? 428 00:20:47,329 --> 00:20:49,569 Unload whatever it is that they're carrying. 429 00:20:49,970 --> 00:20:53,089 And then once you do that, then you go, okay, you know what? 430 00:20:53,250 --> 00:20:54,130 I have good news. 431 00:20:54,210 --> 00:20:56,450 This is something that I will be able to help you with. 432 00:20:56,690 --> 00:20:57,009 SPEAKER_00: Okay. 433 00:20:57,250 --> 00:20:59,009 SPEAKER_02: One of the first things that we need to do is we 434 00:20:59,009 --> 00:21:01,970 need to go A, B, C, really big legal strategy. 435 00:21:02,049 --> 00:21:03,809 And this is where most attorneys get trapped. 436 00:21:03,970 --> 00:21:06,690 Then they it's very tempting for them to start going doing all 437 00:21:06,690 --> 00:21:08,609 the detail works and giving legal advice. 438 00:21:08,849 --> 00:21:11,089 They're they can't do that or else they're gonna lose the 439 00:21:11,089 --> 00:21:12,049 whole conversation. 440 00:21:12,289 --> 00:21:16,450 This is where I can protect you in a big legal, big high-level 441 00:21:16,450 --> 00:21:17,170 stuff. 442 00:21:17,569 --> 00:21:21,329 And then this is what you're talking about, is most people 443 00:21:21,329 --> 00:21:24,210 don't get to the they get it's uncomfortable talking about 444 00:21:24,210 --> 00:21:24,529 money. 445 00:21:26,049 --> 00:21:28,370 They're uncomfortable because money brings in a lot of issues. 446 00:21:28,529 --> 00:21:31,730 It brings out for the person who is providing the information and 447 00:21:31,730 --> 00:21:34,529 for the person who is receiving the information, but you have to 448 00:21:34,529 --> 00:21:34,769 do it. 449 00:21:34,849 --> 00:21:39,170 And the best way is in order for us to come on board, here's the 450 00:21:39,170 --> 00:21:43,970 cost and then c and then pause. 451 00:21:44,769 --> 00:21:48,609 Let the number let everything kind of land. 452 00:21:48,849 --> 00:21:49,170 SPEAKER_01: Yeah. 453 00:21:49,569 --> 00:21:50,930 SPEAKER_02: And you have to slow it. 454 00:21:51,170 --> 00:21:55,250 You have to say it really slowly, because when you talk 455 00:21:55,250 --> 00:21:59,329 about money, again, it brings on a lot of re emotions because 456 00:21:59,329 --> 00:22:01,890 people have difficult relationships with money in 457 00:22:01,890 --> 00:22:02,130 general. 458 00:22:02,370 --> 00:22:02,609 Sure. 459 00:22:02,769 --> 00:22:05,490 So you have to slow everything down, right? 460 00:22:05,650 --> 00:22:05,970 SPEAKER_01: Yeah. 461 00:22:06,450 --> 00:22:07,089 Let it land. 462 00:22:07,410 --> 00:22:07,890 I love that. 463 00:22:08,049 --> 00:22:11,329 And then so uh and so you can actually control this 464 00:22:11,329 --> 00:22:15,089 conversation by your tone and your speed. 465 00:22:15,569 --> 00:22:17,809 So you're bringing the rock of the emotion down. 466 00:22:17,970 --> 00:22:20,609 So you're still doing having a structured conversation, but 467 00:22:20,609 --> 00:22:22,849 you're actually controlling instead of being the one that's 468 00:22:22,849 --> 00:22:25,890 getting 20 questions and you're just throwing the answers out. 469 00:22:26,210 --> 00:22:29,170 So you're getting an absolutely building an opportunity to be 470 00:22:29,170 --> 00:22:30,529 able to serve these people. 471 00:22:31,329 --> 00:22:32,049 SPEAKER_02: Absolutely. 472 00:22:32,289 --> 00:22:36,849 Because most one one of the one of the um framing that I provide 473 00:22:36,849 --> 00:22:42,849 with for our attorneys is that clients, all clients, come with 474 00:22:42,849 --> 00:22:43,009 you. 475 00:22:43,730 --> 00:22:44,370 Two problems. 476 00:22:45,490 --> 00:22:46,529 They have all this. 477 00:22:47,170 --> 00:22:48,769 The first is the legal problem. 478 00:22:49,809 --> 00:22:51,970 The fact that they're able to connect with you, that's a 479 00:22:51,970 --> 00:22:52,529 no-brainer. 480 00:22:52,849 --> 00:22:56,130 Anytime they they connect within a law with a law firm or with an 481 00:22:56,130 --> 00:22:57,329 attorney, that's a no-brainer. 482 00:22:57,970 --> 00:23:00,849 As long as it's in the practice area, they come to the right 483 00:23:00,849 --> 00:23:01,089 place. 484 00:23:01,250 --> 00:23:04,130 You have been training your whole people to school basically 485 00:23:04,130 --> 00:23:05,410 all your life to do this. 486 00:23:05,650 --> 00:23:06,529 Not a big deal. 487 00:23:07,250 --> 00:23:09,410 But here's the other problem that you need to help them 488 00:23:09,410 --> 00:23:09,650 solve. 489 00:23:09,809 --> 00:23:13,329 If you aren't successful in helping them solve this, you're 490 00:23:13,329 --> 00:23:14,450 not gonna have a client. 491 00:23:14,769 --> 00:23:18,370 And that is they also have the financial problem. 492 00:23:18,690 --> 00:23:24,849 Okay unless you stay with them and get comfortable and look at 493 00:23:24,849 --> 00:23:30,370 this as how can I help you solve this piece of your problem. 494 00:23:30,529 --> 00:23:32,130 It's an excess problem. 495 00:23:33,089 --> 00:23:36,130 If you can't stay with them and help them figure that out, 496 00:23:37,329 --> 00:23:40,049 you're not gonna be they're not gonna be able to stay with you 497 00:23:40,690 --> 00:23:42,210 and become your client. 498 00:23:43,250 --> 00:23:45,250 SPEAKER_01: Now when we're talking about this sounds like 499 00:23:45,490 --> 00:23:49,089 it it feels like we're thinking about a long conversation, but 500 00:23:49,089 --> 00:23:51,890 we're not, it's not necessarily a long conversation. 501 00:23:52,210 --> 00:23:53,009 Would you agree? 502 00:23:53,250 --> 00:23:53,410 SPEAKER_02: No. 503 00:23:53,650 --> 00:23:57,730 By the time when it when if you do this correctly, by the time 504 00:23:57,730 --> 00:24:01,009 it's all said and done, within 30, 30 minutes or so, you will 505 00:24:01,009 --> 00:24:01,809 have a new client. 506 00:24:02,049 --> 00:24:03,569 And it's a one-shot deal. 507 00:24:03,730 --> 00:24:06,289 It's not, oh, I'll have this conversation, and then I have 508 00:24:06,289 --> 00:24:09,890 two to three other conversations that's an hour, two hours long. 509 00:24:10,049 --> 00:24:10,609 SPEAKER_01: Yeah. 510 00:24:10,849 --> 00:24:12,529 SPEAKER_02: It's one and done. 511 00:24:12,769 --> 00:24:18,130 And by the time 10, 15 minutes into the conversation, you will 512 00:24:18,130 --> 00:24:23,170 know whether you've uh are having a successful enrollment 513 00:24:23,170 --> 00:24:24,049 conversation or not. 514 00:24:24,370 --> 00:24:26,370 SPEAKER_01: I love the way you frame that because we're also 515 00:24:26,370 --> 00:24:28,370 looking at building rapport in the beginning. 516 00:24:28,529 --> 00:24:31,009 You're controlling the conversation or the emotions of 517 00:24:31,009 --> 00:24:34,049 the conversation, I should say, and you're building in your mind 518 00:24:34,049 --> 00:24:34,930 what you can do to help. 519 00:24:35,089 --> 00:24:35,569 I love that. 520 00:24:35,650 --> 00:24:40,130 And one conversation structured correctly can save, say, three 521 00:24:40,130 --> 00:24:43,009 weeks of follow-up calls that and they never choose you. 522 00:24:43,809 --> 00:24:44,370 SPEAKER_02: Absolutely. 523 00:24:44,769 --> 00:24:45,970 Here's another thing. 524 00:24:46,289 --> 00:24:50,210 Really, this one conversation, 90% of the time, is the only 525 00:24:50,210 --> 00:24:54,210 opportunity that you're gonna have to get them to decide 526 00:24:54,210 --> 00:24:56,210 whether they're gonna move forward with you. 527 00:24:56,849 --> 00:25:03,170 If you have to do a follow-up, 75, 85, 90% of the time, it's 528 00:25:03,170 --> 00:25:05,650 not gonna happen because here's what's gonna, what that's gonna 529 00:25:05,650 --> 00:25:06,130 look like. 530 00:25:06,450 --> 00:25:09,490 You're gonna try to call them to have a follow-up. 531 00:25:10,450 --> 00:25:11,890 Nobody's gonna answer your call. 532 00:25:12,130 --> 00:25:14,130 SPEAKER_01: I think we've all, anyone in sales that has 533 00:25:14,130 --> 00:25:15,250 experienced that. 534 00:25:15,569 --> 00:25:15,970 Yeah. 535 00:25:16,210 --> 00:25:18,690 So when you do get them on the phone, that's the one thing. 536 00:25:18,849 --> 00:25:20,690 Now, here's the other question for you. 537 00:25:20,849 --> 00:25:24,609 What do you feel like how speed delete it impacts the 538 00:25:24,609 --> 00:25:25,170 conversation? 539 00:25:25,329 --> 00:25:28,450 Because say someone came through an ad, right? 540 00:25:28,609 --> 00:25:31,329 So we're doing ads, someone comes through the ad, they 541 00:25:31,329 --> 00:25:32,690 didn't call, right? 542 00:25:32,769 --> 00:25:34,210 They just filled out a form. 543 00:25:35,250 --> 00:25:37,170 Now, how many forms? 544 00:25:37,410 --> 00:25:39,329 SPEAKER_02: That's a terrible unless you're a PI attorney, 545 00:25:39,490 --> 00:25:43,009 unless you're a PI fur, that's a terrible person interaction. 546 00:25:43,250 --> 00:25:47,569 I call that you just completely diswasted a lead. 547 00:25:47,730 --> 00:25:51,170 That for me, because that meant that there's no contact. 548 00:25:51,410 --> 00:25:51,809 SPEAKER_01: Yeah. 549 00:25:52,210 --> 00:25:54,130 We really push the phone number everywhere. 550 00:25:54,289 --> 00:25:56,690 We're pushing everything for a phone number, not enough form 551 00:25:56,690 --> 00:25:57,009 feel. 552 00:25:57,170 --> 00:25:59,809 But if someone doesn't pick up the phone, but they fill out a 553 00:25:59,809 --> 00:26:02,930 form and submit the form and then go on about their day. 554 00:26:03,170 --> 00:26:06,450 To us, it's really important to get on that lead immediately 555 00:26:06,450 --> 00:26:07,490 while they're thinking of it. 556 00:26:08,289 --> 00:26:11,089 If you can't get to it until tomorrow, and it's say it's 557 00:26:11,170 --> 00:26:13,410 that's something, that's what one of the things we offer a 558 00:26:13,410 --> 00:26:15,569 24-7 client intake. 559 00:26:15,970 --> 00:26:18,690 A lead comes in at 2 30 a.m., you don't know what they're 560 00:26:18,690 --> 00:26:21,009 going through in their life, and they need an attorney and they 561 00:26:21,009 --> 00:26:21,890 called you. 562 00:26:22,210 --> 00:26:23,809 They can't wait until 9 30 a.m. 563 00:26:23,970 --> 00:26:24,849 SPEAKER_02: I love that. 564 00:26:25,410 --> 00:26:26,529 No, I love that. 565 00:26:26,690 --> 00:26:30,609 I love that's one of the aspects of your service that I that got 566 00:26:30,609 --> 00:26:34,609 me excited when we reconnected was the fact that not only do 567 00:26:34,609 --> 00:26:37,410 you work on the marketing and bringing people, right? 568 00:26:37,569 --> 00:26:41,569 Uh attorneys, lead, but you have that basically in an initial 569 00:26:41,569 --> 00:26:42,930 intake team to capture that. 570 00:26:43,170 --> 00:26:47,730 Because here's what happens: you have between five to ten minutes 571 00:26:47,730 --> 00:26:48,609 to respond to people. 572 00:26:48,930 --> 00:26:49,410 Max. 573 00:26:49,730 --> 00:26:51,490 Remember the phone book scenario? 574 00:26:51,650 --> 00:26:53,329 I know I just aged myself, right? 575 00:26:54,529 --> 00:26:59,490 Because if you don't get to get to interact with them, and this 576 00:26:59,490 --> 00:27:01,410 is we're talking about contact process. 577 00:27:01,569 --> 00:27:04,370 And the contact that matters is when you actually get a chance 578 00:27:04,370 --> 00:27:05,089 to speak with them. 579 00:27:05,170 --> 00:27:08,370 It's not, oh, I sent them an email, which is the worst case, 580 00:27:08,450 --> 00:27:08,690 right? 581 00:27:08,769 --> 00:27:09,650 It's like terrible. 582 00:27:09,730 --> 00:27:11,250 Nobody looks up their email anymore. 583 00:27:12,609 --> 00:27:14,450 Or I texted them, that doesn't count. 584 00:27:14,609 --> 00:27:18,370 You actually, in order for you to maximize the potential, you 585 00:27:18,370 --> 00:27:19,809 have to be able to speak with them. 586 00:27:20,930 --> 00:27:24,690 And if you don't get to them within 10 to 15 minutes, your 587 00:27:25,009 --> 00:27:28,609 opportunity after I think 15 or something like that, collapsed 588 00:27:28,609 --> 00:27:29,329 to about 75%. 589 00:27:30,049 --> 00:27:31,970 It literally just goes off the cliff. 590 00:27:33,730 --> 00:27:37,089 And that is why if you are not available, because it makes 591 00:27:37,089 --> 00:27:39,650 sense, especially if you're a solo, you might be in court. 592 00:27:39,730 --> 00:27:42,130 You're busy, you're not just right, trying to do the 593 00:27:42,130 --> 00:27:45,250 marketing piece, client acquisition piece, but you're 594 00:27:45,250 --> 00:27:46,529 also doing the legal work. 595 00:27:46,690 --> 00:27:52,049 That's why it's so important to have to work with a marketing 596 00:27:52,049 --> 00:27:52,370 partner. 597 00:27:52,609 --> 00:27:56,849 And we're talking it really is a partnership that also has the 598 00:27:56,849 --> 00:28:01,009 intake where if you aren't able to do that, do they have system 599 00:28:01,250 --> 00:28:05,170 and process in place to help you get through with that first 600 00:28:05,170 --> 00:28:08,690 hurdle, which is the contact and scheduling, right? 601 00:28:08,930 --> 00:28:09,410 Process. 602 00:28:09,730 --> 00:28:11,490 SPEAKER_01: Well, the one thing that a lot of attorneys don't 603 00:28:11,490 --> 00:28:14,769 realize about local service ads is if you actually put in your 604 00:28:14,769 --> 00:28:17,730 Google Business profile that you're a 24-7 call, that you can 605 00:28:17,730 --> 00:28:21,809 take calls 24-7 and you need to be available as 24-7. 606 00:28:22,210 --> 00:28:23,890 Because now this is a new feature as well. 607 00:28:24,049 --> 00:28:28,289 If you don't answer the phone after 5 p.m., right, at say 608 00:28:28,370 --> 00:28:29,410 midnight or 10 p.m. 609 00:28:29,569 --> 00:28:33,089 or whatever, on I think it's one or two occasions, they stop 610 00:28:33,250 --> 00:28:35,250 showing your ad after hours. 611 00:28:35,650 --> 00:28:40,049 So here you're paying$500 to $2,000 a week for local service 612 00:28:40,049 --> 00:28:40,370 ads. 613 00:28:40,529 --> 00:28:43,170 You didn't answer your phone after hours. 614 00:28:43,809 --> 00:28:47,009 They no longer show they will no longer eventually stop showing 615 00:28:47,009 --> 00:28:48,450 your ad after hours. 616 00:28:49,170 --> 00:28:50,370 SPEAKER_02: I had no idea. 617 00:28:51,410 --> 00:28:52,370 SPEAKER_01: That's part of their AI. 618 00:28:54,609 --> 00:28:57,569 SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's the AI because it because if you don't 619 00:28:57,569 --> 00:28:59,250 respond, they're not making any money. 620 00:28:59,490 --> 00:29:00,210 SPEAKER_01: That's right. 621 00:29:00,849 --> 00:29:01,170 SPEAKER_02: Right? 622 00:29:01,410 --> 00:29:04,370 SPEAKER_01: Because pick up the phone and talk to that lead. 623 00:29:05,009 --> 00:29:07,890 All the more reason for them to say, hey, Miss Lead, would you 624 00:29:07,890 --> 00:29:11,650 like me to send give you to four other attorneys that you could 625 00:29:11,650 --> 00:29:12,289 talk to? 626 00:29:12,529 --> 00:29:14,370 So it is That's right. 627 00:29:14,609 --> 00:29:17,809 It's I can see it's totally clear when you say that that law 628 00:29:17,809 --> 00:29:21,250 firms are losing 70% of the cases that they pay to bring 629 00:29:21,250 --> 00:29:22,210 their leads in. 630 00:29:22,450 --> 00:29:25,410 SPEAKER_02: So it's Yeah, it's a literally fall off the in fact. 631 00:29:25,490 --> 00:29:28,210 That's one of the what you can't, it's all metrics, right? 632 00:29:28,289 --> 00:29:31,009 You have to be able to measure all of this because then you 633 00:29:31,009 --> 00:29:34,529 can't, especially for you, if the attorneys that you're 634 00:29:34,529 --> 00:29:37,490 working with, you send them, you generate the marketing that is 635 00:29:37,490 --> 00:29:39,890 needed to send them all the potential clients. 636 00:29:40,049 --> 00:29:42,289 If they don't have a way to track, there's no metrics. 637 00:29:42,370 --> 00:29:44,289 It's like you can't adjust, right? 638 00:29:44,450 --> 00:29:44,609 Right. 639 00:29:44,849 --> 00:29:48,130 So one of the ones of the met one of the metrics that I help 640 00:29:48,130 --> 00:29:51,170 attorneys and figure out is what is your contact rate. 641 00:29:51,890 --> 00:29:52,289 SPEAKER_01: Yeah. 642 00:29:52,529 --> 00:29:54,849 SPEAKER_02: If your marketer, your marketing person is 643 00:29:54,849 --> 00:29:59,170 bringing in 20, 30 leads a day and you're contacting maybe 644 00:29:59,170 --> 00:30:01,730 five, there's a problem, right? 645 00:30:01,890 --> 00:30:02,130 Yes. 646 00:30:02,289 --> 00:30:04,690 First thing you need to draw the there's a gap here. 647 00:30:05,009 --> 00:30:07,250 There's there's a breakdown in your system, and there's a 648 00:30:07,250 --> 00:30:11,490 freaking hole that we need to figure out where it's at and and 649 00:30:11,490 --> 00:30:12,049 fix it. 650 00:30:12,289 --> 00:30:14,609 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because it's not always the leads suck. 651 00:30:14,690 --> 00:30:15,650 That's what we get all the time. 652 00:30:15,809 --> 00:30:19,009 So when we start digging into it, because we use call tracking 653 00:30:19,009 --> 00:30:21,089 numbers and we track as much as we can. 654 00:30:21,329 --> 00:30:22,049 Come down to it. 655 00:30:22,130 --> 00:30:24,930 It's not that the leads suck, it's that you're not actually 656 00:30:24,930 --> 00:30:26,450 reaching the leads. 657 00:30:26,690 --> 00:30:28,289 So you're not having someone have that. 658 00:30:28,769 --> 00:30:30,049 SPEAKER_02: Here's my experience in working. 659 00:30:30,130 --> 00:30:36,930 Literally, this is where I can absolutely say 85 to 90% of the 660 00:30:36,930 --> 00:30:41,569 time, if you're having client acquisition issues, it's not 661 00:30:41,569 --> 00:30:42,130 marketing. 662 00:30:42,450 --> 00:30:43,970 SPEAKER_01: No, it's processes. 663 00:30:44,930 --> 00:30:45,970 It's systems and processes. 664 00:30:47,490 --> 00:30:48,210 SPEAKER_02: Internal. 665 00:30:48,370 --> 00:30:52,769 It's the internal, what's happening in the office, how 666 00:30:52,769 --> 00:30:56,450 you're receiving, what systems that you have in place, who you 667 00:30:56,450 --> 00:30:59,009 have interacting with a potential client. 668 00:31:00,289 --> 00:31:00,609 Right? 669 00:31:00,849 --> 00:31:01,170 Right. 670 00:31:01,569 --> 00:31:04,849 Because yeah, it's usually that's where I first go is 671 00:31:05,089 --> 00:31:07,809 before you change anything, if you have a marketing partner 672 00:31:07,890 --> 00:31:11,170 that you're working with and they are able to generate and 673 00:31:11,170 --> 00:31:15,970 bring in clients, before you start making shift externally, 674 00:31:16,130 --> 00:31:19,170 let's figure out what's happening internally. 675 00:31:19,890 --> 00:31:25,089 And usually we will be able to identify within one to two 676 00:31:25,089 --> 00:31:30,289 conversations, implement something, implement a process, 677 00:31:30,529 --> 00:31:33,809 and they will basically get almost whatever implementation, 678 00:31:33,970 --> 00:31:37,009 whatever strategy that we put in place, they will get almost an 679 00:31:37,009 --> 00:31:37,970 immediate feedback. 680 00:31:38,289 --> 00:31:39,009 SPEAKER_01: I'd imagine. 681 00:31:39,170 --> 00:31:41,410 Yeah, especially if you make a consistent phone ring and 682 00:31:41,490 --> 00:31:42,849 consistently is coming in. 683 00:31:43,089 --> 00:31:45,809 I think we've uncovered a big weakness. 684 00:31:46,049 --> 00:31:49,809 And if for any of our listeners that accept the fact that 685 00:31:49,809 --> 00:31:52,210 they're like, yeah, I think our intake's not doing us any 686 00:31:52,210 --> 00:31:52,769 favors. 687 00:31:53,009 --> 00:31:55,410 How where would they connect with you and learn more and 688 00:31:55,410 --> 00:31:57,009 actually try to fix this problem? 689 00:31:57,890 --> 00:31:58,690 SPEAKER_02: Absolutely. 690 00:31:58,930 --> 00:32:01,730 They can go to gozinger.com. 691 00:32:01,890 --> 00:32:02,210 SPEAKER_01: Okay. 692 00:32:03,089 --> 00:32:07,250 SPEAKER_02: Or they can reach out to me at support at 693 00:32:07,250 --> 00:32:09,170 gozinger.com. 694 00:32:09,490 --> 00:32:10,210 SPEAKER_01: All right, excellent. 695 00:32:10,289 --> 00:32:12,450 I'm gonna have we'll make sure we have those and your phone 696 00:32:12,450 --> 00:32:14,529 number in the in the show notes for everybody. 697 00:32:14,690 --> 00:32:18,690 But I think this is you brought on a very good point and place a 698 00:32:18,690 --> 00:32:22,049 place to look at of a weakness in a firm that could be making 699 00:32:22,049 --> 00:32:25,410 you thousands more dollars a month if you just fix this one 700 00:32:25,410 --> 00:32:25,650 piece. 701 00:32:25,809 --> 00:32:26,130 SPEAKER_02: Absolutely. 702 00:32:27,009 --> 00:32:27,650 Absolutely. 703 00:32:27,890 --> 00:32:30,450 Just so you know, Marilyn, we haven't had a chance. 704 00:32:30,769 --> 00:32:36,049 This week, I just published on Amazon a book with some of the 705 00:32:36,049 --> 00:32:37,490 ideas that we're talking about here. 706 00:32:37,809 --> 00:32:38,210 Okay, great. 707 00:32:38,609 --> 00:32:40,930 Your attorneys and your audience would like to know more. 708 00:32:41,089 --> 00:32:44,130 It's more higher level, but it basically one of the things that 709 00:32:44,130 --> 00:32:46,930 I was in working with our clients, one of the things that 710 00:32:46,930 --> 00:32:50,210 I was realizing that is that when you have even if you have 711 00:32:50,210 --> 00:32:53,490 intake, a lot of times the reason why they're not can 712 00:32:53,650 --> 00:32:56,370 interacting is because they don't know what to listen for. 713 00:32:57,089 --> 00:32:57,329 SPEAKER_01: Okay. 714 00:32:57,569 --> 00:32:59,329 SPEAKER_02: Even in the conversations, they don't know 715 00:32:59,329 --> 00:33:00,289 what to listen for. 716 00:33:00,450 --> 00:33:03,009 And so I've I talked about that within the structure of the 717 00:33:03,009 --> 00:33:04,289 enrollment conversation. 718 00:33:04,450 --> 00:33:07,569 So that if you're if you already have an intake team in place and 719 00:33:07,569 --> 00:33:10,690 you want to up-level and help train them, that would be a 720 00:33:10,690 --> 00:33:11,809 start good starting point. 721 00:33:11,970 --> 00:33:14,289 SPEAKER_01: So I'll get a link to the book. 722 00:33:14,370 --> 00:33:16,930 And I do love the way you frame the intake conversation to 723 00:33:16,930 --> 00:33:17,809 enrollment. 724 00:33:18,049 --> 00:33:21,490 That's we're enrolling new clients every time we talk to 725 00:33:21,490 --> 00:33:21,650 people. 726 00:33:21,809 --> 00:33:23,009 So that's fantastic. 727 00:33:23,089 --> 00:33:25,890 I'll get a link to your book and have that in the show notes as 728 00:33:25,890 --> 00:33:26,210 well. 729 00:33:26,930 --> 00:33:27,890 SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much. 730 00:33:28,130 --> 00:33:28,529 SPEAKER_01: All right. 731 00:33:28,609 --> 00:33:29,809 It's been a great conversation. 732 00:33:29,890 --> 00:33:31,170 Thank you for your time. 733 00:33:31,970 --> 00:33:32,930 It's been a pleasure. 734 00:33:33,089 --> 00:33:33,490 Take care. 735 00:33:33,730 --> 00:33:36,289 That's a wrap on today's episode of the Leadership in Law 736 00:33:36,289 --> 00:33:36,690 Podcast. 737 00:33:36,849 --> 00:33:38,930 Before you go, I want to make sure that you know about 738 00:33:38,930 --> 00:33:41,569 something that could be a real game changer for your firm. 739 00:33:41,730 --> 00:33:44,450 If you've been doing the work, showing up, serving clients, but 740 00:33:44,450 --> 00:33:47,170 your marketing still isn't producing the caseload you know 741 00:33:47,170 --> 00:33:47,650 you deserve. 742 00:33:47,809 --> 00:33:50,529 That's exactly the problem Law Marketing Zone was built to 743 00:33:50,529 --> 00:33:50,769 solve. 744 00:33:50,930 --> 00:33:53,890 My team and I work exclusively with law firms, and we don't do 745 00:33:53,890 --> 00:33:54,769 cookie cutter. 746 00:33:54,849 --> 00:33:57,890 We build a strategy around your practice, your market, and your 747 00:33:57,890 --> 00:33:58,210 goals. 748 00:33:58,370 --> 00:34:02,289 More high-quality leads, better cases, less stress, and more 749 00:34:02,289 --> 00:34:02,609 profit. 750 00:34:02,769 --> 00:34:05,329 Head over to LawmarketingZone.com/slash book 751 00:34:05,410 --> 00:34:08,050 a call and book your free case growth session today. 752 00:34:08,210 --> 00:34:09,490 The link is in the show notes. 753 00:34:09,570 --> 00:34:12,450 Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next episode. 754 00:34:13,490 --> 00:34:15,890 SPEAKER_00: Thanks for joining us on another episode of the 755 00:34:15,890 --> 00:34:17,970 Leadership in Law Podcast. 756 00:34:18,210 --> 00:34:20,530 Remember, you're not alone on this journey. 757 00:34:20,690 --> 00:34:23,730 There's a whole community of law firm owners out there facing 758 00:34:23,730 --> 00:34:26,769 similar challenges and striving for the things to pass. 759 00:34:27,170 --> 00:34:31,890 Head over to our website at LawMarketingSnode.com or there 760 00:34:32,130 --> 00:34:35,730 connect with other listeners to access valuable resources and 761 00:34:35,890 --> 00:34:37,970 stay up to date on the latest episode. 762 00:34:38,849 --> 00:34:39,970 Don't forget to provide. 763 00:34:40,289 --> 00:34:43,410 And leave us to review on your favorite podcast platform. 764 00:34:43,730 --> 00:34:47,730 Until next time, keep leading with Big Bull and keep growing 765 00:34:47,730 --> 00:34:48,289 your firm.