900: Rohit Punyani: How Business Owners Can Turn Tax Deductions Into Retirement Income

Speaker A: The world is going through changes, changes happening at a speed that we have never seen before. This is leading to disruption, chaos, panic, fear, hysteria and a turbulent economy and marketplace. How do you protect your wealth in a turbulent world? How do you invest for cash flow in alternative assets to escape the rat race? In times of uncertainty, how do you decentralize yourself, your family, your community, your business and your investments to become sovereign and escape the matrix? If you are looking for strategies, tactics and techniques to escape the rat race and m matrix, you are in the right place. My name is MC Lobscher and this is Cash Flow Ninja.

Speaker B: This is Keshe London. John Mc Lobster, thank you so much for joining me for another episode in spending your most valuable resource, your time once again with me. Everything Cashflow Ninja is@cashflow ninja.com podcasts, books, resources, webinars, and much, much more, all@cashflowenenja.com and don't forget to subscribe to our newsletter. It's a, uh, weekly newsletter that covers everything in the alternative asset investment space and alternative wealth strategy space. You can subscribe to our newsletter by going to cashflending.com subscribe I've got a fantastic show for you today. My guest today is Ro Punyani from the Owner's Asset. If you are a business owner or you have a medical practice, you, uh, don't definitely want to listen to this conversation today. Uh, Ro, great to see you.

Speaker C: Nice to see you.

Speaker B: MC yeah, been looking forward to this conversation. Had the pleasure of connecting with you and spending some time together and I've uh, really enjoyed our conversations and I think uh, our audience and is going to find, uh, what, what we're discussing today extremely, uh, uh, interesting too. So looking forward to this. But before we get into that, can you share a little bit about your background and your journey?

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. And thanks for having me. MC and I enjoyed meeting you in Atlanta. We had a great time. My background very quickly because this is about the business owner and their tax challenges, but why are you and I qualified to help talk about it with them? Is I think the issue here the opportunity. I've been a Wall street markets guy my whole career. My first job was at a mutual fund. Uh, then 08 came and I think a lot of folks had a lot of challenges and I made the decision to move from money management to wealth management. So I went to business school at Georgetown, did my MBA there because I really wanted to stop being in front of spreadsheets all day and move to a more advisory role out of Georgetown I was recruited by probably one of the best companies in the country is Wilmington Trust. Uh, they do ultimate M, you know, very long range planning, multiple generation, dynastic type situations. You know, they're tax forward. Some of the best planners and money managers are there. I got to be a portfolio manager for them. Then I had the opportunity to be chief investment officer of a multifamily office and then ultimately chief investment officer of a community bank where I ran an $8 billion desk. Four billion was custody, so didn't really advise that. And 4 billion was, you know, actively doing asset allocation, individual stock selection and planning, work for ultra, ultra high net worth, you know, billionaires and you know, the everyday, uh, individuals. So I got to advise on the whole gamut. Okay, so how does that come to life insurance? Very quickly some of my biggest, wealthiest clients and some of my, you know, hard working everyday folks were like, this is a cool asset, talk to me about it. And I didn't know much about it, so I started studying it and studying it and studying it and next thing you know I said okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna launch a business in this because here's what you learn when you work in that space. I'm saying I know I'm going on a little long, but savvy investors, savvy clients and doesn't matter what spectrum you're on, don't pay retail for anything. So I basically stepped back and said, how do I acquire life insurance via uh, tax deduction? Enter. What I do now is build pensions for small businesses. I'm going to use the word pension instead of cash balance plan because people understand a pension, they're very similar. So I build pensions for small business owners.

Speaker B: It's fascinating to see also, you know, the world that you come from, the different view on life insurance where they literally see it as an asset to purchase. And how can I buy that asset at you know, a discount or wholesale or something like that? The exact same way how we view real estate, right?

Speaker C: Mhm. Yeah, it's true. Savvy, savvy investors and wealthy families by assets, not just investments because they're very different, right? And so they look at life insurance as future planning, they look at life insurance as estate planning. They look at life insurance really ultimately as cultural governance for the family. I know you're super passionate about family governance and multi generational wealth. Mc they look at life insurance as cultural governance. Okay? There's no such thing as unlevered money. If you're going to borrow, borrow from the Family bank. If you're not, if you worship at the altar of ibc. In my world, it's, there's ways to use pensions to transfer businesses. There's ways to use pensions to make sure the patriarch and matriarch have tax free guarantees that ultimately cascade down to the next generation. So yeah, it's an asset and the wealthy and the savvy buy assets.

Speaker B: So let's, let's talk about cash balance plans and these pensions that you're setting up. Right? So um, business owners, and to your point, you're, you know the world of family offices too. You have their own businesses, their own businesses. There's real estate involved, there's life insurance, uh, you know, there's other, other projects and so forth. But in the businesses, like you said, you can set up these private pensions which kind of takes care of, of the back end of their life. But tell me a little bit what it is, um, and what information, uh, my audience should be aware of exactly how it works.

Speaker C: Okay, yeah, let's start with what it is. That's a good place. But make sure we get to who qualifies. What it is is that there is an entire secondary retirement system built into the tax code. MC, most people are familiar with the 401k and the IRA system. There's a secondary system designed for anybody who is a solopreneur for small and medium sized business to get even more deductions to go buy assets. Right, assets today, sorry, deductions today, assets tomorrow. Is how we think about it. What it is is a way to get guaranteed, safe, secure money in place so that your business can thrive and your other assets, your IRAs and your 401ks can thrive real quick. I know you want to jump in, but why did I position it that way? The first thing people hear MC is if I do a pension, I may not be able to do the first retirement system. What's so cool is the IRS says no, you can do both. You can have a 401k and a pension. You can have them together. You get to have your cake and eat it too, because you're an entrepreneur, because you own a business.

Speaker B: Gotcha. And this is, you know, again, if you look at pensions, this is something that has been in the big corporations for the, uh, employees, this, I mean this is disappearing.

Speaker C: It has been disappearing. What's interesting is Last year, huh, 2025 to 2024, there was a 77% increase in the use of cash balance funds. So they're coming back in vogue. But what you're saying couldn't be more accurate. You're spot on MC is it's moved from the big corporation to the small and uh, mid sized business.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: And uh, you said this has been around forever. I believe the first pension was American Express. Right. And then it was codified in the tax code in literally the early 1920s. 412 I and now it's, it lives under section 401A. And there's not only a resurgence there, there is the, the strategic use of, of, of pensions to make sure that you know, you're okay. Why is this important? Mc, you started a business, right? Uh, you know, producers, wealth, cash flow ninja. I, I've read your stuff. I, I, I'm honored to be on your podcast by the way. Right. What ends up happening with the business owner also applies to the physician. We do a ton of work with physicians. Right. Is they deferred either while they're in med school and then after is to build their practice just like an entrepreneur does. You don't contribute to your 401k or IRA those first three, four, five years in business. You need a catch up. And this pension lets you put up to 20x the amount of capital into your pension as you can. The 401k. So what it is, it's a super sized way to play catch up and it's a pension mc.

Speaker B: Yeah. And to your point as uh, for the general public and employees, these pensions are disappearing, well, there's a massive opportunity for business owners. It's actually growing and more and more people are leveraging this. Um, and it's something that not a lot of people know about. Uh, it comes back to that thing is like you don't know what you don't know what you don't know.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: And this is one of those things. When I started to see this and read up about it and uh, getting involved with this stuff personally for myself and my, my business, I'm like this is something that everybody should know about. And then I found, I found Rose. So now we're running around and sharing this. Um, tell me, um, who would be a person if they're listening to this, who's this for? Who, who would be an ideal candidate for something like this?

Speaker C: Yeah, great question. There's a couple different ways to cut it and I want to do all of it because everyone hears something different. But active, the broad definition is active self employment income. So if Roe was an employee and I'm in Northern Virginia, a couple of miles from the D.C. border, so if I was an employee at Lockheed Martin to say, I couldn't do this right. If I have passive W2 income or traditional W2 income doesn't work if you have active self employed income. So if you have a 1099, if you have a side hustle, you can do this. If you own your own LLC with active income, if you have an S Corp, then your W2 does count and your C corp with active income. So you know, dividends off of a portfolio, a stock portfolio will generate 1099 income, but not active 1099 income. Right. And so that's who it works for. It's for the self employed, for the owners of businesses. Most physicians don't realize if they're a 1099, the IRS views them as a business owner. That's why I kind of equivocated at the beginning. MC is if you have 1099 a side hustle, the IRS views you as a business even though you're not incorporated. That's who it works for. Self employed, active 1099, active K1 income.

Speaker B: What level of income or business size of business? Um, are we looking at that? It starts to make sense.

Speaker C: It's a really cool question and I don't want to talk too long, but it's so interesting because this is a tactical tool that can be used for a broad spectrum of solutions or opportunities. Let me answer your question directly, but then show you there's a whole wide berth of opportunity here by giving you some case studies maybe. Yeah, typically businesses doing 500k or more of revenue are a good spot because a plan should be around 60 to 100k on the low end. Okay, now we've done smaller plans. Let me give you a cool example. My favorite case is just down the road. There's a professor that we work with who has W2 income from the local university that doesn't qualify for the plan. All of his speaking engagements go through his LLC and he is above age 55. We can actually deduct more than his LLC income and start to manage his W2 taxes. We got him his first ever refund. So, uh, I want to think creatively about this. So a traditional employee who has a really cool side hustle can do this as well. So there the size becomes less important, uh, as it becomes tactical tax management. I believe that tax and tax planning is an asset class unto itself. So the short answer is 500k for a business. Right. Um, the bigger the better. But being tactical about it matters a great deal because you can use, you can build yourself a Pension to offset some of your other income and tax liability as well. So we'll do smaller plans for really cool strategic reasons.

Speaker B: Let's talk about the tactical tax planning. And I love what you just shared too. How tax. Great tax strategy is an asset itself too.

Speaker C: I think managing taxes is as important as managing an equities portfolio or a bond portfolio or a portfolio of alternatives. And you're talking to a guy who did that professionally for two decades on billions of dollars. My wealthy clients always asked about structuring, not the IRR they would almost always choose a slightly lower IRR for more optionality, for more choice to say, oh, but I can move this deeded trust out of my estate. Or something like that. Always mattered a great deal more to them than just saying, oh, s P and chill. That's. That. That's not how it works for most people.

Speaker B: You know what's funny is that is literally because the first, you know, I, I dove got. Went down the family office rabbit hole, uh, I don't know, eight years ago. And I was actually in a family office sitting with a friend of mine, and they were just sharing, you know, a couple of strategies and so forth. And he's like, hey, you want to sit on, on this? I think you'll find this interesting. And I'm like, they're, you know, like a kid in a candy shop, you know, just ready to just, all right, tell me, tell me the secrets. Um, and what was hilarious was the entire conversation was tax strategy and tax planning. And then I said to, I said to my friend at that stage, I'm like, so when, like what? When we're getting to the good stuff here. Like the stuff. And he goes, well, what do you mean? I said, you know, it's this, it's just, uh, there's a lot of time spent here on taxes. He goes, mc this is the ball game. He goes, think about it this way. He goes, if we can reduce, let's just say a family. Does families taxes this year by 20%. Let's just say, for example, there's no return that can beat that over time anywhere. Anywhere.

Speaker C: It's almost like you're quoting my website back to me because this is exactly how we view things. Uh, if you can get a deduction today for assets tomorrow, you win, you win. You're turning a headwind into a tailwind. You're creating downstream optionality. That is what cash balance plans are. Pensions are. So, okay, we've covered what it is. It is a massive deduction for safe, secure assets. Who Is it for active small business owners? Right. That, that is it. What is it? It's a tax play. It's a way to acquire whole life with pre tax dollars. That's something we should swim in. And it's for downstream optionality, going fast. But this is my view of the world. And let me put a quick teaser in. What's so cool is I'm, um, becoming a tax nerd. I'm not there yet, but there's only a handful of deductions that can be done in arrears. This is one of them. So let's say it's Q2 or Q3 of any year. I don't want to ever like, you know, timestamp something. This deduction can be taken in early Q3 of a year, back to the previous year. So. And I don't know a single business owner who files on April 14th or April 15th morning. Right. Or April 14th, 14th at 11:50pm they're all an extension because they're still sort of triangulating their strategy. Good. This should be part of that strategy and part of that dialogue.

Speaker B: Let's talk about this because this is actually, I mean, if you're, if you're listening to this right now and you're like, yeah, you know, it's. Whenever you're listening to this, you might be thinking, oh, we're kind of like almost to the middle of the year, almost there. Uh, does this really apply? Should I just revisit this at the end of the year? Let's talk about that, um, of how you can actually go back in arrears on this one and kind of like plan. Because this might be a massive opportunity for people still listening to it right now.

Speaker C: It is the biggest opportunity for people listening to it from a timing perspective. And I'm going to pull a thread back from timing to strategy. Is that cool?

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker C: Okay. It is, whatever it is, uh, mid year of any given year and you're sitting there and your CPA says you owe X dollars. Guess what? If you're a small business owner, you can install a pension and wipe out that tax liability. Period. End of story. Now you're parting with cash, but either way, you're parting with cash. You're either parting with cash to pay Uncle Sam or you're parting with cash to your pension. Which would you rather do? Fund Uncle Sam. And there's nothing inherently wrong with that. We have roads and bridges and stuff like that, and police and public schools. Or would you rather build a pension for yourself? So either way, it's a cash outflow from that perspective. But what is an outflow. Outflow to a liability uncle um, Sam. The other is an outflow to an asset. Why can you do this in arrears? One of the reasons this part of the tax code pensions didn't take off until about three years ago was in ERISA 2.0. They redid it. They rewrote the Employment Retirement Income Security act and allowed these to be done eight months after the end of the calendar year. That's it. That's where it all happened. So you can take earnings from this year and stroke that check for a deduction for last year. In effect, you're having the government make you a loan for tax, a tax free loan by doing it that way. I see MC smiling. Nice.

Speaker B: Previous year's taxes. You could still now, yeah. Uh, you could do something about it with earnings from this year.

Speaker C: Yeah. And any savings from last year. So if you have those savings now, let's go back to this fantastic book I read called Get Wealthy for sure. All right. It's all over your back wal have been building your wealth accumulation account. What was the phrase you used in the book to describe.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's your, it's your wealth accumulation.

Speaker C: I was right. Okay, so I've read it and I just didn't want to misquote it. You can take a loan from that account and get a tax deduction. Now how are you going to even begin to calculate your IRR? Because you're taking MC's work of building a wealth accumulation account and strategically creating capital. It's going to grow whether or not it's levered. But now you're going to get a tax deduction for leveraging that. Your audience already has a built in funding mechanism to get a tax deduction. That's why I was so jacked up for this call.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean it's quite incredible. So what does the process look like, uh, of the setup? Because people might be listening to this and say, well, how do you even do this?

Speaker C: The process is handled by the owner's asset. So typically, you know, if, if, uh, a small business owner comes to us directly, that's one process. And then we partner with advisors and folks like you. And so we want MC in this case to stay front and center. And you're a team, right? You're the lead advisor, we're tactical experts. But the process is the same after we, we decide who's going to stay the quarterback of it. We handle compliance, we handle the reviews, et cetera, et cetera here's what the process looks like. We get to know you first and foremost. Is your business a fit? I would say mc, um, about three out of ten folks who come to us don't fit for a pension. What do you need to fit? Is a natural question. One, you need to have relatively stable revenues and earnings. Meaning it can't be like a typical real estate agent where they move two huge luxury properties and then the following year they're living off a heloc. So, you know, small businesses, consultants, small lawyer groups, physicians, physician groups are very. Because they're relatively stable, plus or minus 20 or 25%, I can make it work. The second thing for what we ascertain who can in terms of what does the process look like is can you commit to this for three years? The IRS says you got to do it for three years. So once we check that box off, we send you an intake form. That intake form. I then pull it back in and I go reverse inquiry. I reverse auction to different administration companies. These are highly specialized companies that have actuaries on staff. Typically they send me proposals. And here's what. What's unique about the owner's asset. We then cut a private video and put it on a private YouTube channel for that prospect. We walk them through the proposal. The tax deduction. What type of entity is it? Oh, okay. It's a, uh, it's a 1099. We will help and author a form letter to your CPA. I deducted on line 17 of my Schedule C line. I think it's 11 of 1120s for S Corps. We turnkey the whole thing for you. If it works and you say yes, we begin the process of underwriting. If we're going with life insurance and we handle all the paperwork thereafter. So we'll handle all of that for the individual. At the end of the process, they get the amount for their CPA to deduct me personally or our TPAs will generate the Form 5500 for the IRS and you get deductions and seven figures of assets.

Speaker B: Case studies. What can you share a couple of just, uh, yeah, examples of, of business owners that have come to you and um, went through this process and absolutely have a massive smile on their face because of the tax savings.

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. So I shared the one of the. Of the professor who's, who's was very creative because a lot of people hear, oh, I'm a standard, you know, nine to fiver. Okay. But if you have any other active income, you can do this. So the case study of the professor is a very, very good one. We've also done one. I know your passion for family offices and for governance. We've taken a cash balance plan and the active income generated for consulting to a family office by family members can be used to then deduct it back out. So we had actually two of the family members were very active with the family office. 1099 they were 1099 ing themselves to doing the work for the family. We took that income and bought life insurance and uh, annuities in their plan and have created those family members estate plans along the way. So what you do is if you can buy whole life insurance with pre tax dollars, you get a huge boost to your irr to your rate of return on that policy. Right. If you're going to spend $100,000 of premium, you'd have to earn 140 to 150k depending on what state you're in. If I'm getting you a 40% tax deduction to do it, you only have to earn 60k. Spend 60k to get that life insurance. You leave it in the plan. In this family's case, you said give you a case study. In this family's case, we're not done with the plan yet. But what we are going to do is when we take the insurance out of the plan, we're going to move it to an irrevocable trust for planning down the road. What did the owner's asset do in that case we got that family a tax deduction to do estate planning. Creative use of this stuff is really interesting. Um, we're working now with a professional athlete and I think a lot of folks love professional athletes for all the reasons that we do. The pinnacle of health and fitness and the competition of it all. You get a W2 typically in each state that you play in. But any endorsement deals can run through an llc. So you can take any of that income and deduct it back out to get this athlete life insurance. Critically important in that space as well because life and life spans tend to be a little bit different there depending on the sport. Right. So yeah, man, the dominoes don't end on this. On all the different creative applications of a pension, how to use it and

Speaker B: the life insurance in there too. Talk a little bit about that and just the power of that in this strategy.

Speaker C: Okay. The power of life insurance. And you said I got nine minutes left so this is fine. Yeah, right. That's like three episodes. Look, the power of life insurance in this strategy is really cool. One, you're getting it with pre tax dollars. Remember we already talked about savvy investors and it doesn't matter if you're a billionaire or you're, you're, you know, you're just getting started in your life. You try to buy things at a discount. So that's the first advantage of doing this. And only 40% of a pension can be in life insurance, by the way. So we have other assets filled. Fill the gap. The power of it in this strategy I think is, and let me rephrase that I know is traditional retirement planning. Let's move out of the family office in the ultra high network space and talk to the everyday entrepreneur who just wants their freedom, who just didn't want to do the 9 to 5 grant. If your retirement plan is 100% marketable securities, you do not have a plan. Okay? You need something with guarantees. Why not use your pension to get your annuities and your life insurance and then surround it with your 401k, your profit share, your after tax brokerage, your real estate. Because what you're doing is taking the best of both worlds. There are two schools of thought in retirement planning. The AUM school of thought and the guaranteed income school of thought, which is life insurance and annuities. Both are right, by the way. I hate this. Both are wrong, blah blah, blah stuff, right? Both are right. You need to pull from both disciplines. The power of life insurance in this strategy is you get the safety discipline at a discount. You have to have both to make your retirement plan work. That's the end of the day. How do you build wealth? I've come to the following conclusion. With two decades of money management experience, it's easier to build wealth with life insurance than without. Now you're going to say why, right? I view wealth building as creating a series of sequential upside opportunities. Whether it's a piece of real estate, your own business. The S and P is venture capital, private equity. You did an episode on gold bars in the Caribbean, right? And so you take all those. Well, if any two of those three or two of those five don't work and you're in the aum only world, you don't have the retirement you want. In the middle should sit whole life because it's guaranteed to work. It gives everything else time to work and it gives us the mental clarity to see those options, those call options come to fruition. That's whole life secret power. Whether you get it with a discount and a pension, with me, you buy it the traditional way. You've been buying it. Having it gives you the emotional satiety to see this through. That is where the dialogue should be. The dialogue shouldn't collapse to the relative rate of return of this, though it does beat bonds. The dialogue should be how do I let my plan come to fruition and have it be a real plan? Said in two sentences now and I'll be quiet. It's your podcaster. If you're all aum. Um, if you're all sequence of returns risk, your plan is ornamental. It's something that belongs on a shelf. If your plan has something where you've inoculated the risk of housing, food and healthcare, you have a genuine plan. You only inoculate those with safe, secure assets.

Speaker B: Well said, my friend.

Speaker A: Well said.

Speaker B: Very, very powerful stuff. Um, is there any, you know, I always ask with anything that we review, what is. What is it? What does the downside look like? Is there anything like. How does this not work? Is there. So, you know, because that's I. With literally every single asset there's something like that. So what, what is it with this strategy in this, this particular, uh. Yeah, this particular tactical tax planning kind of approach?

Speaker C: Yeah, good, great question, mc. Um, the first reason it doesn't work is if you can't commit to three years. This is this. You know, the IRS and the Department of Labor are very clear that this is at least a 36 month commitment. But we coach our clients. This is something you do for 7, 8, 9, 10 years. As your business grows, so should your tax strategy. Why is a 401k a good starting point? You're stuck. I think they just moved it up to 24,5 this year. So if you make 500k or 100k, you can put 24,5 in. Guess what? As your income grows and as your age goes up, this goes up with you. But you only get to do that if you can commit to it for a couple of years. So that's the first way this goes wrong. If someone starts a plan for a deduction and they can't see it through in year two and year three, you have to file, you have to get a letter that says you're closing this plan prematurely. It has to be signed off on by either, uh, tpa, A, ah, CPA and, or the Department of Labor. So no, you. That's the first way this goes sideways. Is someone trying to get one years of tax deduction and not doing legit planning.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker C: The second way this goes wrong, and, and this is more nuanced is if the, if the owner or the, the person, you know, the business owner building the plan is greedy. What does that mean? You actually can't earn too much money in your pension. You also can't earn too little. The IRS says, look, you've taken the risk to be an entrepreneur. You are paying for your employees 401ks, you are paying for their health care. You're doing all this stuff. We're going to give you these huge deductions, but you can't abuse them. You can't go 100%, the Magnificent Seven in your, in your, in your, in your pension. You can't overfund it because then the deduction comes down and the plan can actually be overfunded and hit with an excise tax. So you got to kind of keep it steady. That's why I like doing these with life insurance. MC is because it's a steady zero volatility rate of return. But that's the second way these things can go sideways is if they are super overfunded. The third way is naturally the corollary underfunded. You go buy a bunch of stocks and there's a bear market. You can't make the cash balance plan, the pension promise to the participants. The business owner is forking up that cash to make that plan whole and pay people out. So yeah, the first is they can't commit to it. The second is they're greedy. The third is they took too much risk and it didn't work out. So it's better just to kind of play this down the middle. MC but those are the three biggest, um, cons to doing this. The fourth con that people bring up is they're a little bit more expensive than a 401k to administer about $3,000 a year in TPA fees. Third party administrator, TPA, TPA fees, interestingly enough, that's tax deductible to the business owner, but they're a little bit more, I mean, it's pennies when you're talking about $180,000, $200,000 plans. But yeah, that's the fourth con that I hear from folks that I work with.

Speaker B: Demzi, Gotcha, Gotcha. Ro. Um, where can people get in touch with you if they want to explore this to see if this is something that they should be adding and even this year for last year's taxes right now. Um, where can they get in touch? Where can they reach out?

Speaker C: Yeah, ownersasset.com is our website and you can actually book directly with me. My calendar link is right there on the website and I love it because so many people use that just to bounce ideas and talk about other strategies as well. But ownersasset.com and since we're talking about our site and obviously reach out to MC as well to see if this is the right fit because we're partners and we're teammates in this endeavor of helping the small business owner get what they want. Right? That's my mission. That's my why is Small Business Owners the retirement crisis in America for small business? I'm trying to solve that with Mark, my co founder. On our website, I'd also challenge people to go to the resources section. MC we wrote a, uh, 24 page playbook that describes, okay, what's the avatar of where this fits? And then we wrote a whole section designed to give it to your cpa. If it's this type of entity, here's how you size it and here's where you deduct it. I mean, we have made this thing, you know, very logical and sequential to follow to decide if you can get in a plans for you, how to build your team around you and work with your existing team. Every good business owner is a good cpa. We help them reconcile it. We do all the filing for them. Awesome.

Speaker B: Awesome. Well, thank you so much for just sharing your knowledge and just providing so much value. Always appreciate our conversations. Appreciate you.

Speaker C: Thanks for having me. MC it was an absolute pleasure.

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