Forming Servant Leaders: Humility & Integrity with Ian Fanning | Leaders in the Arena Podcast

Speaker A: Welcome to Leaders in the Arena. My name is Jenny Whitener and I am the executive director for the Brock Barnes center for Leadership at Covenant College. Leaders in the arena is about real stories, hard earned insights, and practical guidance from leaders doing the work of leadership and in the arena. This program is brought to you by the Brock Barnes center for Leadership, where we're focused on equipping servant leaders to faithfully build institutions and communities in Christ's work of making all things new. We do that through four major capabilities. One focused on student leadership, another institute focused on innovation and impact, our executive education programs and our Wisdom um and Insight series. Which brings us to today's program. So, so excited to welcome our special guest, Ian Fanning, who is a senior, at least for the next three days here at Covenant College, also McClellan Scholar. He's going to be talking with us today from a student's perspective around forming leaders of character and really deep diving into the characteristics of humility and integrity. Ian, thank you for joining us.

Speaker B: Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

Speaker A: Great to have you. And as we get started, as I do with all my guests, I ask them to introduce themselves a bit more and tell our audience about themselves and maybe a bit about their leadership journey. So if you do us the courtesy.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. So I'm Ian Fanning. I am, um, a senior here at Covenant College. I've got about three days left until I get handed a diploma and I'm now an alumni. I came here in 2022 with my twin. We are the oldest of seven and we're from Birmingham, Alabama. Originally, I came here a history major thinking I was going to teach. And now I'm going off to law school back at Samford in Birmingham. So that's kind of where I've been and where I'm going.

Speaker A: That's great. And I just want to thank you again for today. I know that you have a lot going on, especially as you wrap up your senior year. Um, and so thank you for being here and also thank you for your leadership. Four years as a McClellan Scholar and then now going on to law school, uh, at Stanford. I know that we will hear more from Ian Fanning as his career unfolds. So today our program is really focused on these characteristics of servant leadership, humility and integrity. Talk to me about why this matters today in leadership.

Speaker B: Yeah. So one of the things I've heard over and over again is I've gone through multiple job hirings and I've worked with various people. Is there's often a gap between people who are really good at what they do. Like, they have all of the technical skills, they inspire, they lead, they get rally people around the cause, and then they'll. They'll say they'll do something, we're going to get this project moving. And then they fail to do so by the deadline. And that's what I think one of the key parts of integrity is, is we talked early on when I joined. Brock Barnes is an intern. When you say, I'm going to take on this task, that task is now your responsibility. And to have it done by the deadline is not an unrealistic expectation. It's just an expectation of work, a workplace that's filled with integrity. And I think there's a growing disconnect between we've got tons of people who have all of the skills but none of the integrity. And when you approach them saying, hey, we need X thing done by this deadline, and you haven't gotten it done in the past, can we talk about some ways in which we can work through this? They lack the humility to take a step back and learn as well. And so that's where I think those two things, very interconnected is you need the humility to admit I don't always get it right. And you also do have to remember that as somebody, whether you are a school, you're a student, you are a teacher, you are a white collar, blue collar, whatever position you find yourself in life, you have to take ownership and recognize there's a certain amount of integrity within your responsibilities to get things done, to do them well. And so, yeah, I think that's kind of when I first heard these two things, I was really excited to talk about these.

Speaker A: Well, I love how you're connecting them. You know, I had initially thought about that when we were planning our discussion today, that in order to have really solid integrity, you have to have humility. And I think that's a big calling. I think many leaders, when I've spoken to professionals who are out in the workplace leading corporations, leading nonprofits or their churches, if you were to ever ask a leader, um, do you think leading without integrity is a good idea? Almost zero would say yes. So they would all affirm, yes, we should lead with integrity. Yes, we should lead with integrity. But then, as you're pointing out, that's not always easy to do. And it's that modeling, it's that walking the talk and being able to be humble enough to say, I need more time, or there's something that's Come in. That's you know, changed the landscape and we need to reprioritize or whatever the case is and to be humble enough to talk with your team and to talk with others about that, to kind of reground the plan, reground the path forward, um, talk about how trust, um, fits into this because I think that's a foundation for everything.

Speaker B: Yeah. So. And I think trust is a little bit more on the side of integrity, but it does play into humility as well. Because with trust, I think one of the most obvious things is if you asked me to complete a project and I'm under you, and you say, hey, I need you to get this deliverable done by X date and I say, okay, I'll have it done in that case, then you are trusting that I will get it done. Um, and so that's the first and obvious one. But I think with humility as well, there is a certain amount of trust that if you came to me and said, hey, you're not getting these deliverables executed by this time, we need to talk about some ways in which you can perform better and get you back on track if you. There's trust on my end as well. From like, okay, I need to trust that as your. And I need to have humility and trust to recognize it as my superior. You really, even if I think I know better, you really do know better because you, you have an understanding and perspective that I don't. And it's so easy in today's very individualized me, me, me, me, me, sort of both corporate setting, but just in general cultural setting to think, no, I actually have the right perspective and I know it's best. And that's where trust almost breeds this humility and integrity, where if you show me trust, I'll deliver more. And I need to trust that you have my best interests at heart and you do really want me to perform better. It's not, I'm not saying every boss is perfect or anything like that, but by demonstrating and receiving trust, cultivate those habits of integrity and humility. Mhm.

Speaker A: Good points. And so this trust component is foundational and sort of investing and building trust gives you the opportunity to demonstrate integrity and humility woven together on an ongoing basis. Because I trust that you're in it for the right reason, that you're pursuing this for a win win kind of perspective. Um, very, very interesting. I think I just want to get just one more question in this area. There's a book out, uh, by Adam Grant called Think Again. It's one of a times bestsellers. And he brings in this concept of confident humility. He didn't really do integrity and humility, but oftentimes in the business sector, you'll see individuals who get promoted, they achieve higher levels of authority and power, often because they're smart or often because they have strategic insight, um, that they lose sight of this humility component. And I think you're so wise to help us see that. Confident humility is this concept of integrity and humility woven together. That if I'm going to lead with integrity, um, being humble enough to have those open conversations about what I know, what I don't know, what changes need to happen, where we're going, where we're not going, all of those two, those things that you highlighted for us is so important.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Let's move on and talk about this sort of building humility and more depth. Um, and how do you use kind of that growth mindset? How does learning play into being humble?

Speaker B: Yeah, so you always hear kind of it's probably an overplayed phrase at this point when in job interviews or you're interviewing somebody, they talk about how, oh, I'm just a lifelong learner. I've always wanted to be a lifelong learner. And it is an overused phrase, but I think it is a good mindset to adapt that. As somebody who's about to graduate, my learning doesn't stop once I get handed that diploma and walk across the stage. It's just a different kind of learning. And even if I wasn't going into more academics, um, if I was just picking up a job, I had friends who are about to be project managers and portfolio managers and go work in construction and all of these sorts of things, and it's a different world. And if you walk into that world with the pride and sort of this mindset of, I know I finished college, surely I must know something. And you do know quite a bit more, especially from a place like Covenant where they teach you. But if you walk in thinking, I already know everything, you're very quickly going to become more of a hindrance to the company. You're going to be unpleasant to be around. And so walking into a new space or any really even just could be a social gathering with what can I learn? Who can I talk to? And it becomes a game. It's fun after a while. Um, but there really is a mindset of I need to keep learning. And every new interaction is a chance to learn. And if you approach it with that, that humility to go, okay, I don't know everything in this situation. I'm not sure what's going on. I can learn from these people. It motivates people when you want to actually listen and learn from them. And I think it's one of the hallmarks of being a good leader is being able to listen and learn from other people. Mhm.

Speaker A: You know, what's that famous saying that, you know, God gave us two ears and one mouth.

Speaker B: Right, right, right.

Speaker A: And, but listening and deeply listening is really difficult. And um, and I think when we do that, it almost takes us back to the beginning of the conversation. You build trust, uh, you build humility by that deep listening and then this concept of learning and being open to continuous learning. I know that, um, your generation certainly was impacted by Covid many business when they went through an unprecedented pandemic, but people didn't know how to progress. We were all humble. How do we continue doing business in those kinds of constraints? And even today, with the advances of artificial intelligence and the landscape of AI, there's a lot of humility to say we're exploring this landscape together. And I think, as you're saying, leader that can be humble, pose the questions and listen is a leader that people want to follow.

Speaker B: Right, right.

Speaker A: Talk about how integrity. Give me a deep dive on integrity and um, help me understand that particular characteristic a bit more.

Speaker B: Yeah, so we've touched on it a little. I think the most concrete way to measure integrity, because it is sort of a nebulous word. You hear it tossed around. Oh, he's got integrity. But one of the most nebulous ways is the person keeps to their word or kind of, that is something that's emphasized in the Bible quite a bit is be a man of your word. Don't say like your yes be yes and your no be no. Um, and I think that's a key part of integrity is even when stress is high, there's a lot of things swirling around. You may have 18 different projects and two kids at home and four different soccer practices to get to, but somebody who's able to let their yes be yes and their no be no has a tremendous impact not just on the people surrounding him, um, but it could be people who is indirectly connected to or she is not even aware is watching. Um, but that skill to say this is what I will get done, and then to get it done I think is fading quickly and also more important than ever. In an age where you're right, we've had an unprecedented pandemic, people are kind of grappling with artificial intelligence and what do we do with something that appears to do all of our learning and work for us? Um, I think it's a really big opportunity for people to step in and help pull in ways.

Speaker A: Yes. And, you know, when there is uncertainty, um, if you think about leadership and followership, people were saying, I'm unclear about what's ahead. I'm unclear of, you know, the scope and the scale of landscape or how far I will go. Will it affect my job, will it affect my ability to make a livelihood? You know, how, how will this forward when there's those questions, when people have fear. If I can trust my leader, if there's an integrity based relationship, then I know that they're being honest with me, that they're walking the talk, they're keeping me updated, that they have my best interest at heart in addition to the best interest of the company. They're balancing those things. Then there's this level of integrity that I can really anchor to and get through that fear and get through that unknown. Um, I trust that that leader and I believe in them because they've built integrity with me.

Speaker B: Right. Yeah. I think that this is a tangential side note, but it is interesting to think about Silicon Valley. I don't know, I'm sure you remember the early 2000s, late 2000, when kind of the Silicon Valley startups blew up and there were all these articles and pictures about their workspaces and how human friendly it was and they had like beanbag chairs and places to nap and all that. But I think the draw for a lot of people in that was it seemed to acknowledge, yeah, y' all are human, you need sleep and you like comfortable things and bright colors. And I, I wonder if that's some of the appeal. And what drew people there was they were like, oh, this person knows we're human. They must have integrity because they acknowledge that we're human and we're not just robots who crank out work. So anyway, tangential side note, but yeah, I know.

Speaker A: I think it's absolutely spot on. And you know, recently with one of our executive and residence programs with Brent, be sure we had a chance to visit an entrepreneurial launch center brickyard here in Chattanooga, Tennessee. And interestingly enough, the front door walked into a workout space.

Speaker B: Oh, how fun.

Speaker A: People were in there lifting weight. And then you went from there into kind of like a food kind of area, break area, and then there was like a, uh, lounge area with a, with a fireplace pit. And then there were. And so I think your, your call out to us as leaders is that first we have to recognize we're all human. And in order for us to have this relationship of integrity and humility, you know, built on trust, that we have to acknowledge that and meet human needs. And by meeting those needs you actually get better performance, more performance than pretending that someone's not human. And they. I know. Recently we had an executive from Southern Champion, Trey, um, visit us and he was talking about how one employee was always late, had great performance otherwise, but they were late getting to work by 10 minutes on a frequent basis. And they said, well, is there a way they were about to counsel this person out and terminate? And so this chief human resources officer said, wait, this person does really great work. Do you know why they're late?

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: And so is there a reason they have to start at 8? Could that person start at 8:45? I mean, is there any reason we couldn't change their start time?

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Had to do with dropping children off and some of the things that that person was struggling with in the mornings. They changed their start time to 8:45. You know, an exemplary in point.

Speaker B: That's fantastic.

Speaker A: Yeah. And it's just as you said, I think we have to remember that we're humans working together and be responsive to that. Um, talk to m me a little bit about how we form servant leaders with this type of character. Do you have thoughts on that?

Speaker B: Oh, plenty, plenty. Um, yeah, I think. And one of the things I think Covenant College and the Brockburn center has acknowledged very quickly that I think is vital is this has to be an informing leaders is an intentional process. It's not one where you go through life and fall into being a leader. It takes intentional time learning and reading and spending time with wise people who can counsel you. And then you have to test it out and practice it. And uh, I'm excited because one of the things that the Brock Barnes center is doing that I've heard quite a bit about from both you and also students as well, um, is they're doing a Fellows program in the fall where y' all will do that reading and that writing. It'll be about 20 to 30 students, kind of like a cohort. And the goal is to give them the materials and give them the space to have discussions and then they have to go out and practice it. And I think it was a non profit or a church or some sort of organization where they get to go and test skills. And I think that that in particular is what I'm most excited about because you can read all of the books you want, have all of the deep, meaningful discussions, but it doesn't mean anything until you feel the pressure of expectations and sort of the adrenaline start to spike and then you have to make a decision. And I think that's, it's fantastic that we're doing that now. When it feels like they're in such a leadership crisis for good, strong, humble leaders who walk the walk and talk the talk. Um, and it's, it is part of what's made Covenant so great in the past, I think, is they have those leaders like Brad and like you, uh, Rodney Miller and Mr. Messer, all of them who walk with humility and integrity. And we need more people like that. It's foundational for Covenant to keep going and it's foundational, I think, to promote good Christian leaders in Chattanooga and in the wider United States of America. So.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I love how you're talking about the formation of leadership is intentional. Right. Um, there are some times when the magic wand comes out and you just happen to get the fairy dust and

Speaker B: you're a great leader. Right.

Speaker A: But in terms of building a broad group of very proficient, you know, change makers in our world, um, that has to be intentional. I'm so excited about, as you said, the Brock Barnes center for Leadership, the upcoming Leadership Fellows Program. This two semester deep dive. Uh, we had this year, as you know, over 100 students nominated. Yeah. By faculty and staff to be considered as candidates for the Leadership Fellows Program. And there'll be 20 actually this year that are appointed into the first cohort ever of the Leadership Fellows Program. It's a two semester program. Excited about that. And I think that your point, your other point I want to amplify for a moment is this concept of a leadership crisis.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: You and I have talked about this as we've worked through the launching of the Brock Barnes Center 2.0, we call it of the Brock Barnes center, where we realize in our society today that trust is eroding. There's polarization, families and communities, there's difficulty of having just constructive discourse. You know, like how do we evolve together as a human species? Um, and we need, ah, faith based, Christian based leaders in all spectrums of our society and our communities and our businesses and nonprofits and our churches to bring that Christian perspective forward. And so, so excited about the charge, uh, for Brock Barnes and for Covenant to intentionally build, as you said, intentional Christian, uh, based leaders through this Leadership Fellows program. Very excited about that. How do you feel the students feel about it? Is it important to Them. What's the process in the field?

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I think they're excited. Um, I personally know quite a few of the students who will be in the fellows, and they've talked to me about how excited they are. I think it's a new idea, though, and I think that's part of that leadership crisis you were talking about, is much of the work is just getting the word out there, helping people realize this is what we're trying to promote, this is what we want. And good, because I think integrally, most people agree with the vision. Uh, we need strong leaders. We need leaders who care, who walk the walk, who do what they say they're going to do, who listen well and care for them. People know most inherently we need that. Um, but they don't know how to get there and they don't know what to do. And so I think as this fellows program grows, people are already excited for it and already talking about it. And I'm hoping as it we begin to see results and we begin to get cohorts moving through that, that excitement and that curiosity will just grow.

Speaker A: Great. Ian, thank you so much for joining us today to really unpack these two characteristics of servant leadership, humility and integrity. Thanks for the wisdom that you've shared, and thank you so much for all of your leadership with the Brock Barnes center and our inaugural launch of 2.0 and our next Generation. You have been integral to everything that we have done in bringing this new capability to life. And Brock Barnes, I want to thank you for that personally. I know there are great things ahead for Ian Fanning, and, um, I'm so thrilled to have known you in this stage of your journey, and I hope you'll stay in touch and come back and be in on leaders in the arena.

Speaker B: Absolutely. Thank you so much. It's been a joy to work with you this semester and to have this conversation just now. It's been fantastic. I really appreciate it.

Speaker A: Great, Ian, God bless you.

Speaker B: God bless. Goodbye.