Values-Driven Leadership | Leaders in the Arena Podcast

Speaker A: Welcome to Leaders in the Arena. My name is Jenny Whitener and I'm the executive director for the Brock Barnes center for Leadership at Covenant College. Leaders in the arena is about real stories, hard earned insights and practical guidance from leaders doing the work of Leadership in the Arena. At Brock Barnes, we work to bring, uh, servant leadership to life by, um, four different capabilities at Covenant College. One is the Institute for Student Leadership, the Institute for Innovation and Impact, our executive education programs, and our Wisdom and Insight series. Which brings me to today's guest I'm so excited to have with us today, Carter Helm. He's an executive director with Chick fil a um here in the Chattanooga Ultiwa area. And thank you, Carter, for being with us.

Speaker B: Thank you, Jenny, so much for having me excited to be here.

Speaker A: Well, great. I'm thrilled to have you here. We're going to be talking today about values driven leadership. I know personally you and I have talked about this. I know it's something near and dear to your heart. But first, before we get into that programming, if you could just start with a little bit of. More of an introduction of yourself, a little bit about your background and your leadership journey. Because I know our listeners would love to hear.

Speaker B: I would love to. I would love to. Um, all right, so I am married. My, um, wife's name is Tay Tay. And we have a two year old son named Stroud. Um, so if you ever see him around, you're not going to know that he's related to me because he is, um, as white and pale as can be and bleach blonde. Um, so you're not going to see the resemblance between us. Um, and we're expecting a daughter, Annie James, um, next month. So we are super excited to get ready for all the little girl stuff and have m another little baby in the house. Um, I call Chattanooga home. I've been here since I was 14, um, minus the time I spent in Tuscaloosa for college. Greatest city in the world, as I like to call it. I'm a member at Lookout Mountain Prez, close to Covenant. Um, had family members go to Covenant, so that's near and dear to my heart, of course. Um, but I did spend my time in college at University of Alabama. I studied marketing, um, studied Spanish and I actually went to grad school there as well, um, to study marketing with a specialization, ah, in professional sales. Um, so Roll Tide really loved my time there. Um, yeah. Would you like me to kind of share how I got started with Chick Fil A?

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think that'd be really interesting, especially for our students who dream of having opportunities to come up with a Christ centered company like Chick Fil a. So you did your, you did your undergrad and your graduate training at the University of Alabama. And. Yes. So talk about how did you land this great job and now as executive director for Chick Fil a here. So. Yeah, do tell.

Speaker B: All right, so the story starts when I was 15 years old, actually. Um, and I needed some gas money and, uh, well, I needed to start saving for a car. And then I needed gas money and pay my cell phone bill and all that. So I applied for the two places that I thought would accept a 15 year old. Um, and that was Publix and Chick Fil a. Um, and God really set the course of my life with those two applications because Publix did not call me back and Chick Fil a did. And here I am today. Um, I don't know how long it's been since I was 15, but, um, so I actually started working at a Chick Fil a location, um, in Hamilton Place mall. Um, and I knew that Chick Fil a was different when, you know, I'm 15 years old, I'd work every Saturday. Um, I didn't have any work experience besides, like, mowing the yard and, you know, kind of whatever I had from growing up. And I had a great leadership team and they were really nice and, and they didn't. They didn't, you know, pressure me or make me feel like I was stupid for, you know, being young and not knowing how to do stuff. Um, so I knew that Chick Fil a was different when one day after I'd worked there for about a month or two, um, they said, one of my leaders said, I want you to go out into the food court, um, and talk to people and pick up their. Pick up their trays, pick up their trash, ask if they'd like a refreshment on their beverage. And I was like, what are we talking about? Go out into the food court, um, and you'll see. You know, I was immature. So I was like, aren't there, you know, staff members that clean up the food court? Like, I work at Chick Fil A kind of with that immature mindset. But I was like, all right, I'll go out there. So I go out there, started talking to people, and I was kind of blown away by how pleasantly surprised they were. Um, they were shocked that I was in the food court. And that was a really special experience for me, being challenged to get out of my comfort zone. Step outside of the walls of Chick Fil a and engage, um, relationally with people that didn't expect it and try to surprise them, um, and make their day. And so, um, I enjoyed that. I enjoyed the challenge. I enjoyed the reaction that I would get. Um, and I knew that Chick Fil a was different then because somebody in leadership said, hey, push yourself. Go outside of your comfort zone and make somebody's day. Um, so yeah, time goes on. I got to learn all the different things. Work in the kitchen, unload the truck. I took a shift management role when I was in high school and throughout all the years that I was in high school, um, there was a leader. It was a couple of different people that knew me, knew my life, um, prayed for me, cared about me. And then on top of all that, taught me so many skills. Um, a little bit about people management and a lot about just executing great business. Um, so I go to college, held a couple of different part time jobs in college. Um, I got to spend time working at a coffee shop that I loved. And I learned a lot about creating an experience, slowing down, making connection. Because you know, a coffee shop is so relational. So you really have a lot of time to linger and create an experience for somebody. Loved that. Um, I ended up going to work for AT&T Corporate after grad school. Um, I really didn't know what I was going to do. I thought about ministry and I ended up working, going to work for AT&T. And um, nothing against AT T, but um, I didn't feel like I was making an impact. I kind of felt like I was doing a job that interesting. Maybe a monkey could have done. Not really. But I, um, was like, all right, I'm longing for something more. Um, and I remember what it felt like to be invested in, um, and then to invest that energy and time into, to other people at Chick Fil a. So I took a leap of faith, um, and decided to try for a career at Chick Fil A. And I've been here for six years, um, and it hasn't stopped growing me, challenging me, changing me, encouraging me in those six years since.

Speaker A: That's very, very great story. I mean, I'm sure very inspirational, especially for a lot of our students who are saying, you know, how do I balance this pursuit of a career, of a vocation, and then also find this purpose driven, this values, alignment, a little bit of the content that we're going to talk about today. And I think one of the things that's inspiring for you is going to undergrad and then on to grad school. You took an opportunity, you did that leap of faith into AT&T and you said, hey, it's not for me. I'm not finding this alignment of purpose that I'm really looking for. And you know, life is about these short experiments of finding our place. And we're going to take a step and sometimes that's not the right step and we have to recognize that and then move on. And you've done that. And so hats off to you for helping students and all professionals really know that. Find your journey. Right? Stay, be prayerful about it, um, and find your journey, uh, and amplify the gifts that God's given you. Let's move on into this concept that really begins from your story about finding this purpose that you were talking about that you did at Chick Fil A. And I wanted you to talk about with our audience today, values driven leadership. Because when you and I have talked before, as you're now in management and involved in leading people, people, you've talked to me about how important leading from values is in everyday decisions. Um, and I thought that's powerful. Could you talk a little bit more about that? What does that mean, to lead from values and everyday decisions?

Speaker B: Absolutely. Um, so if it wasn't clear, I do work in a Chick Fil A franchise, so I work in a restaurant every single day. Um, so I'm not in an office setting. And so these everyday decisions, um, really get amplified when you're in a fast paced, busy environment like Chick Fil A. And so, um, man, I think the question you asked me, it's kind of like I get battered with this every day, um, hour by hour. Um, so I've failed a lot, but I've learned a little bit along the way from these failures. Um, and I think first and foremost, if you haven't defined your own values or if you don't know the values of the company that you're working for, it's worth asking, um, it's worth exploring your own values. And so, Jenny, you really helped me with that and so wanted to give you a shout out there. But once, um, you've defined your own values to a short list, it really does become easier to make everyday decisions. If you plan ahead, um, you have to do a little bit of planning to be able to make a values based decision on the spot in the heat of the moment. Um, so a big value that I want to talk about today is that at Chick Fil A we value being relational over transactional. And that kind of gets a little bit to why I left at and T. Right. Um, and so if we value being relational over transactional with our team and with our guests, um, we have to find a way to live that out day by day. And so one, one way that I've come to realize, in order to make values based decisions, you have to operationalize your values to help them stick. Um, if you don't systemize your values in a way, which I know might sound counterintuitive, but if you don't systemize them, um, you're going to forget them, you're going to get overwhelmed and make a fear based decision or whatever it is on the spot. So one example of this, at Chick Fil A, especially with the younger team members, we want to teach them our value of being relational over transactional. And so, um, about four years into my journey with Chick Fil A, we really thought about our onboarding process. What does it look like for any team member? But you know, what if it's a 17 year old team member, kind of like I was when I was a teenager getting onboarded? How do they know that we are a relational, not just transactional business? Because that's what we expect them to treat our guests like. Um, so we took our orientation and onboarding and we really changed it from just like, you know, submitting your verification for work and all that kind of good stuff, your Social Security, all that. We changed it, um, to kind of be like a red carpet experience so that these brand new team members would know this is what it looks like to be treated relationally right from the get go. And during our orientation, we take a tour through the restaurant. We stop at our vision board. And this is something I created, um, when I wanted our team to know. We go beyond just the transactional. We go into values and relationships. And so on this vision board, we have our corporate purpose, we have our local restaurant vision. And then we actually have 50 little sticky notes of our team members writing their own personal whys. Um, and we encourage our new team members to write them and stick them up on the vision board. Um, and that's a great way to kick off their experience. But in order to do that, we had to systemize it. So we had to change our orientation script, we had to create a new tour, um, we had to change our processes in order to get to the place where we could live that value out.

Speaker A: That's great.

Speaker B: So your systems really become an expression of your values.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, you were walking the talk. It wasn't just an aspiration or something that you said casually, like you said, you integrated it into the systems of how you're operating. And I love the fact that you've got this vision board. And I also love the fact that you changed up, uh, the onboarding so that you modeled the way you were walking the talk. You were like, if we're relational, we're going to do it from the very beginning. And I think sometimes leaders, managers don't realize that when they talk about these value systems, when they talk about things that are important, they'll say, oh, that's just for our customers. But no, it has to be for that internal customer, which is your employees, just as important as it is for them to see how important it is and to feel that importance of being valued and feel the importance of being heard, um, and to be related to. Right. And for them to then, um, model that with customers. So a great win there for you guys. In terms of establishing this vision board. Is that something that you're just doing in your restaurant or is that something that's done all over?

Speaker B: That's just going to be one example in our restaurant. Just because each Chick fil a is individual.

Speaker A: And I think that's also important, right? Because as leaders you owned it. It wasn't like you got this distribution packet from corporate that said, you have to do this, right? So you did bring in the corporate mission statement and purpose statement, but then on top of that you said, how will we lead? And you absolutely owned that as a leader. So hats off to you. I hope everybody at home is listening. Right? To really own that leadership, make it real, make it authentic for your location. Um, anything else you'd want to say about values driven leadership? Are we ready to go on to trust? I wanted to talk to you about that today. Where would you want to go next?

Speaker B: Well, I did want to elaborate. So my emphasis on that was changing the system in order to operationalize the value. But one thing that's important to remember is that sticking your values on the wall doesn't change a culture. And so that's a great example of how we created a system. But that really does just kick start it. You've got to have all the follow up systems as well for the day in and day out decisions. Kind of like what you asked me about. And so, um, maybe to elaborate a little bit more. We have, in our leadership development system, we essentially have a curriculum for anywhere from like a team member all the way to the highest level of leadership for the types of things they need to Learn and accomplish and, and do. To become a leader at our restaurant, um, and systemized into that curriculum is a requirement for character and relationship building. Um, and so because anywhere from our low level leaders to our mid level leaders, to our executive leadership, we have a requirement and an expectation for shepherding the people that are under us and um, and for having good relationship with the people that we report to. That's not just um, a hope, it's actually an expectation in our leadership requirements. And so because of that relationship has. I could go on and on about this, but systemizing that relationship, building and making sure that um, every leader has good relationships with the people they're leading, um, helps those day by day decisions in the heat of the moment succeed. Um, because if you don't have a relationship before you get to a hard decision and you have to make it on the spot, you're gonna, you're gonna have tension, friction, you're um, gonna fail in the moment.

Speaker A: Very good. In fact, what I'm hearing you say is that you all um, set a goal around this values purpose driven culture. You systematized it, but then you took it further and you really made it a part of your culture and ensured that it applied to everyone from the senior executive all the way through to the staff so that everyone could be living that relational importance. All the things that were purposely part of your restaurant culture. So it wasn't by chance or what I would call magic wands. It was very intentional leadership.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: Great. Um, so one of the things that would, just as we summarize this section before we go on, I would say say your beginning point was really important in your charge to everyone listening. If you don't know what your personal values are, take a moment to reflect and get clear on those. And then think about this alignment between your own personal values and the organization that you work with and just understand how those get together. They don't always parallel exactly, but just going through that thoughtful process aligns, uh, you as a leader to begin to put together systems, to put together cultures. And that beginning point is so important.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: When you were talking about building this culture and then you are talking about when things get tense and if you don't have that relationship, it can get pretty sticky. That takes me to this concept of trust, because relationships build trust. And so we know that through the literature that teams that really focus and anchor, um, an impact around trust or really focus on building trust have higher performance, higher speed, higher satisfaction. So can you talk a little bit more about this team structure and how you help people feel trusted and infuse responsibility into that. How does that work for you guys at your store, your restaurant?

Speaker B: That is a great question. Um, you know, I'm gonna go at it from two angles. Um, number one, accountability. Um, and then number two, relationship building. Because I think both of those things really build trust. Um, let me, let me flip, let me go with relationship building. Number one, um, when you have a relationship with somebod where you know their hopes, where you know their dreams, um, where you know what gets them excited, um, you're more likely to have their permission to lead you. And that's something that I learned from John Maxwell. Um, when you have a relationship with somebody, um, they give you permission to lead. And so that really eases a lot of, um, the leadership struggle. Instead of having to lean on a title, instead of having to lean on, um, some sort of imagined power in a power structure, right, you're leaning on relationship, um, and permission, which really kind of changes the ball game, um, when it comes to trust. Um, and then number two, I really believe that accountability helps create trust. Um, when you set clear expectations for a team, um, and when there's consistent but kind follow up with those expectations. Um, people know what to expect when they walk in the door. They're not, um, you know, afraid that one day it's going to be this and the next day it's going to be this. Um, and when you give somebody expectations and allow them to run with, um, can really help them find some ownership. So I'd love to tell you a story about, um, I've got two directors that own our schedule. And so believe it or not, we actually have about 150 employees, give or take, that work at my Chick Fil, a franchise. Um, and labor cost, it is a lot of people. And labor cost is, um, one of our two largest expenses. And so it is a very, very complicated schedule. We're open for 16 hours a day and then we have people working overnight and all that kind of stuff. And so, um, this is a big deal. It's a very, very big deal. And so, um, for the people that own the schedule, what we do is I say, you know, hey, this is yours. You get to own it. Here are the expectations you know, we have to accomplish this goal. This is how much per day that we can spend on labor. We can't go above this or we won't succeed. This is how many people can be scheduled per hour based on our sales. If we don't do this, we won't Succeed. Um, but besides that, I want you to own this in whatever way you want. So you can schedule whoever you want, you can kind of change the opening or closing procedures. You know, you can own all of those details and kind of create it the way that you want to create it. As long as we can kind of accomplish our end goal. Right. Um, and so with these leaders, I had great relationship, I had great trust, and I kind of just set out like, here's the goal, we can't spend more than X amount. That's it. That's the only stipulation after that, run with it. Now that also includes weekly follow up. It includes kind of talking about where did we overspend. Right, because sometimes we do. Um, so it doesn't mean that you just run with it and never hear from them again. But um, they actually were able to create an even better system than what I hoped for because they had a simple goal, they had full ownership. And then we had weekly follow up where they showed me, hey, you know, I created this system that projects what our hourly productivity per man hour is going to be. Um, and we talked through that and I was like, why don't you try this? And then they added something else that I never thought of and it's become this great system built by people that we have mutual trust and they have full ownership, but there's constant follow up there.

Speaker A: So yeah, great story. In fact, I love the beauty of the fact that you're talking about simple goals. You know, people understanding, you know, what are the, what, what is our aspiration, where are we going? What, what is success for us? And then any other non negotiables, right? And then open the field for innovation and creativity. And I think having that conversation, setting that with a team, they begin to trust and that you, you know, you know where you're going, you know what the criteria is and then you're trusting them to be innovative along the way. Um, really great story and I would agree with you 100%. We do a lot of work also with some of Patrick Lencioni's work on uh, building high performing, cohesive teams. Trust, commitment, accountability equals results. So you're right in the middle of that big research paper. Um, let's go on to talk about operational excellence because we have about, I don't know, uh, six or seven more minutes. So on operational excellence and customer service, this is an area where Chick Fil A hands down is very well known in the marketplace as being extraordinary. Um, and so can you talk a little bit about, from A leadership perspective, how your strong cultural focus, um, enables this great customer experience. What do you guys do in there? What's your secret sauce?

Speaker B: Yeah. Um, I want to start by talking about having fun. For number one, true to Kathy said, if you're not having fun, you're not doing it right. And so, um, really simple things, allowing our team to have fun, um, you know, play music while we work. I know that's not allowed at some places, but play music and. And we goof off and stuff. Um, it can really lighten the mood during a stressful time and help remind us that we're here to make connection with our guests and with each other. And so it's pretty simple, but just kind of allowing room to play and to laugh, even in the midst of, um, a difficult day, I think is incredibly important. Um, so we have a concept at Chick Fil A called surprise and delight. And it kind of goes back to our idea of, uh, Second mile service, where we want to go above and beyond what is expected of us. Um, and there's a great history there. You should look it up if you've never heard of it. But, um, when we surprise and delight, we typically like to give away free food or we like to play games or give away some sort of fun thing to our guest, um, and any kind of other, like, unique idea that we might have for the day, whatever that is. And so one way that we try to connect our team to that kind of culture is as a leadership team, we actually try to surprise and delight our team on a regular basis, because that's an expectation that we have for our team to surprise and delight our guests. And so, um, I love to walk in on a Friday night with a couple boxes of pizza and, um, maybe some free ice cream coupons or something like that. Um, and just to show my team, let me say thank you. I hope you guys are having fun. You know, if you don't have some music playing, let's get some music playing. Um, and I hope, you know, the way that they treat the guests is a reflection of how they're treated internally. Right. And so that's just one small example of a system, the surprise and delight system, where we try to surprise and delight our team, and we hope and expect as well that they surprise and delight the guests. Um, so that's a little example of kind of how we, you know, try to bring that from the inside out.

Speaker A: Right? Right. So making sure that work can be fun and having this common value system of surprise and delight. And again, I think the interesting part is you're constantly saying this happens inside with our team, just like we aspire to have it happen with our customers externally. And you're holding those both in, um, constant, ah, focus. So I think that's really great. Um, anything that you would say about systems or processes for that or anything that it's important to sustain things like that because the story that you tell, it's very personal. You're watching the team, you're saying, what can I do to make it more fun or to nurture them by bringing pizza? But is there anything else that you do as a leader to just systematize that?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Do you have any data, team engagement or any planning processes or something?

Speaker B: Well, if I were to take it in the direction of, you know, how do we ensure that we're providing a great guest experience? Um, we have goals where we compare ourselves to the entire chain of Chick Fil A about how we're performing when it comes to overall satisfaction for our taste of food, our speed of service. And so our expectation is that we would be in the top 20% of the chick Fil A chain. And that's just our personal goal, ah, at our Chick Fil A franchise. And we're only comparing ourselves to other Chick Fil A's. Um, and so we like to have fun, we like to surprise and delight, we like to play music. Um, but there's accountability cadences throughout the entire organization. And so, um, you know, different team leaders will own different metrics. And so, you know, so, and so works in the drive thru and they really own the results for our fast service. And so if we're not succeeding with our fat service, in our weekly meeting with that leader, in my weekly meeting we're going to talk about what are the processes for your area, you know, what does it look like to deliver the food to the guest and where are we struggling? Um, where is the process not being followed? Where should the process be changed? Um, because at the end of the day, if we're not hitting our target result, um, we need to make a change, we need to do something. And so beyond just the fun, there's a level of accountability that goes throughout the entire organization where we try to give each individual leader, hey, this is your area of ownership. You own this, make it great, do what you want to do in this area with the non negotiables like what you said, um, and let us come alongside you when we're, when you're struggling and when we're not hitting the mark and challenge you to make a change, um, and provide that accountability. Because true ownership really means um, being able to make a change in results.

Speaker A: Right. I mean what I'm hearing you say in that story, that example is you're really talking about also a coaching style of leadership. You've got clear goals, clear expectations, clear accountability. I'm handing this to you. You're responsible for speed or the drive through process, whatever that is, and then meeting with them and nurturing them and coaching them. How is it going? Where is it working? Where is it not? What can be done and said. I think that that's a really clear demonstration of a leader that cares. Like let me help you with this. And um, help you work through new ideas or new approaches to even have greater performance and see what they see, what you can come up with together.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: As we wrap up, we could go on. I know that you have a million stories, but as we wrap up today's program, I wanted to see if you could talk a little bit more about culture. Because when we first started talking about leadership and values based leadership, you were quick to help us understand that it's just not the process, it's just not the goals, but it's really around this commitment to building a culture in your organization. And so you talk a little bit more about the importance of building culture, why that's important and what can you do to ensure you don't have culture drift.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Um, so I'll say about a year ago, um, we pretty randomly, um, missed a pretty big profit goal. So this sounds like going in a different direction. Um, and so I reacted out of fear from that. And so the following month, um, we talked a lot about numbers, which are incredibly important. Um, we talked a lot about saving money, M. We talked a lot about cutting costs. What we didn't talk about was the relational over the transactional. Um, so I think a truth of life is what you focus on, um, is really who you become. And so we kind of, for about a month or two as a team, became this um, numbers driven transactional organization, um, simply because we missed a goal for one month. And so what that looked like in the day to day was um, we cut our team to be um, not staffed well enough to save money to where the team struggled and the guests received a poor experience because of, you know, a shorter staff. Um, and what it looked like was maybe you know, in my, in a poor leadership moment for me when I saw somebody sitting um, in the dining room with a guest and having a great conversation with them, you know, I kind of walked by them and whispered like, hey, I need you to get back to work. And that's not who we are, and that's not Chick Fil A, and that's not who I want to be. Um, and so in that moment, you know, when we didn't achieve a result, I let out of fear for the next month. And so we really had to reset. And so we kind of, after we realized, like, we're not following our own values. I'm not following my own values of relationship and care, um, over profit. And so we took a reset, and we started to focus on second mile service again, which is one of the most, um, expensive ways to do business because you're giving away lots of free stuff and you're staffing lots of extra people. And I said, let's get back to our values. Um, and Chick Fil a would always encourage us to do that as a company. And so let's get back to second mile service. Um, so we spent way more time focusing on that than our bottom line.

Speaker A: Um,

Speaker B: and we saw, you know, a change in the culture because of that. We saw people start to have fun again. Um, you know, those connections started happening in the dining room again, where you could slow down and talk to somebody in the dining room instead of focusing on efficiency and all that kind of stuff. So, you know, what causes culture to drift? I would say fear. I would say leadership. Um, it was my leadership that caused us to drift because I steered the team in a new direction. I said, let's focus on our profit because we missed our mark. Um, so what caused it to drift? Leadership. And how do you get back on track? Focus on your values. It's pretty simple, but hard to put into practice.

Speaker A: I love it. And, you know, you were saying that you, when you had that stressful moment when the, you know, results were down, that ignited a reaction of fear. And that's very common with leaders. Right. And I think what you just described was what I would call a, uh, learning leadership moment. Not a poor moment.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: Because you came to the other side of it as a learning leadership moment. The more pressure that is on leaders. I keep saying, can it get any more? And it always does. The speed pressure, the AI implementation pressure, profitability pressure, all these pressures on leaders today. I think what I'm hearing you say is when you get that reaction and fear sets in, you know, it's maybe like you want a light bulb to come on and take a moment, go back to the basics. What were our values? What's our relational commitment, uh, to our customers. What's this? You called it the Second Mile. What was it?

Speaker B: Second Mile Service.

Speaker A: Second Mile Service.

Speaker B: One of our tenants at Chick Fil A.

Speaker A: Certainly you want the data. Certainly you want to look at that efficiency data. You want to do that, but it's not an either or. It's a both. And so I think that what I'm hearing, the big wisdom, um, for you coming to me today, is we are all, as leaders, going to encounter those moments of high stress that ignite fear in us. Like, oh, my gosh, what happens if this continues? Because you care about your company, you care about the people, you care about the home life that you're having to sustain as a working dad. Um, but to take a moment and step back and reflect and not let fear drive us, um, but let wisdom drive us. That commitment.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: Uh, and purpose. So thank you so much. What great wisdom today. Carter Helm.

Speaker B: Thank you, Jenny. It's a pleasure to be here.

Speaker A: Thank you for spending time with us. We'll be praying for you and Tay Tay and the new baby and Stroud and all the family. And we just wish you very much, and we hope that you'll. We'll see you back again, uh, leaders in the arena after things kind of stable with the new babe.

Speaker B: Absolutely. Thank you for having me.

Speaker A: All right. Best wishes. Take care. Bye.